can't the club..?
They obviously see something in Martin Jol that we can't.. and this is just a big smoke screen, and as of Saturday we're going to go on a 10 game unbeaten run, yes?
From what I've seen over the last 2 seasons, it's a bit odd that the club seems to back an absolute clueless manager, and for that manager to stick with a club that refuses to spend any money - for what ever reasons.
A lot of fans were happy with our transfer dealings this summer, I for one wasn't and thought we lacked serious ambition whilst other clubs around us strengthened. OK, I can understand Khan wanting to assess things for a year, but he should have been advised when taking over that the current squad was old, and it had lacked any decent sort of investment over the last four seasons.
What I'm witnessing these days is absolutely shocking football. Not in a way that it takes me back to the dark old days of Torquay, but in a way where most of our players just don't give a toss. Never in my Fulham supporting career have I experienced this, and although we've had some rubbish managers in our time, I've never experienced one like Jol who constantly blames other around him, and not himself.
Our players look unfit, out of shape, lost, even confused at times as to what they are supposed to be doing on match days. We're supposed to have a good coach in Martin Jol who should have a game plan, even a plan B when things go wrong but he doesn't seem to have any.
I'm not a fool when it comes to football, I've played the game at a decent level in my time, and I can clearly see there is a long term problem at Fulham. The club doesn't have the guts to get rid of Martin Jol, for what ever reasons, but if they honestly think things are going to suddenly improve under him, they're wrong. The guy is a parasite and if he is still in charge after Christmas, I'm confident, if not sure he's going to take this club down.
The whole mood of the club is is up in the air right now, fans arguing with fans, people upset over our results, insults being thrown at Jol, players being blamed and Khan getting stick for not spending money..
Come on Fulham, this isn't our way, it has never has been our way, so please do the right thing and drag this club back on track. We've done it before, we'll do it again, and we'll achieve great things but Martin has to go.
Well said, that man.
I agree Mr. ST with just about everything - but what gets me is the players support him too. There is too much complacency. When Sanchez came in and the Norn irons didn't produce - changes were made. I actually like and defend Jol, and we have till the Jan transfer window to judge, but I am having serious problems with:
A: not totally agreeing with you
B: Kahn not knowing the difference between Football and American football. It starts at the top and I am worried.
I agree and for me the big question is not to do with Jol's or the players' inadequacies, but what is MacIntosh up to? He seems to be the guy around whom everything revolves. If Jol is not good enough - Mac should do something about it. If Jol is not being given adequate resources - Mac should do something about it. If Mac is not doing what he should, who is assessing Mac's performance?
Players probably say they like jol so they get a game one word against him and they disappear into the reserves never to be seen again.
I honestly think the club most have someone lined up once the season ends, bit like utd with moyes tapped up nice and early but keep it hush. they surely can't be thinking of renewing his contract and I thought jol himself had said he didn't want to renew and probably why the club gave him no money to spend.
I think Jol is Mackintosh's man and Mackintosh is sticking by him. What annoys me is that we've got this great youth set up where all teams are coached the same except the first team. We've already heard reports that the Academy coaches have fallen out with first team coaches this season.
We've won more points away than at home this calender year. If Craven Cottage is no longer a fortress, its usually a sign that the manager should be sacked.
Quote from: Southcoastffc on October 30, 2013, 11:18:51 PM
I agree and for me the big question is not to do with Jol's or the players' inadequacies, but what is MacIntosh up to? He seems to be the guy around whom everything revolves. If Jol is not good enough - Mac should do something about it. If Jol is not being given adequate resources - Mac should do something about it. If Mac is not doing what he should, who is assessing Mac's performance?
I strongly believe this is the link. It was well known that Jol was Macs man, he pursued him even when he was Ajax, before getting Hughes if you can remember. He flew out to meet him when it all fell through that time. Obviously Khan is being advised that Jol is still the right man for the job, otherwise he'd be gone, right? But he isn't so..
Khan was also advised, again by who, that the original plan was good enough for this season, so Khan said go with it, knowing nothing about football, but he did say those will be held accountable, did he not?
At this moment in time, our very cunning plan of penny pinching, buying freebies and doing everything on a tight budget to earn extra brownie points with the boss isn't going very well is it. Especially when this is all being managed by one supposedly top coach who doesn't seem to have a clue.
At this moment in time, I'd say that I see two very accountable people here, who are obviously going to advise otherwise to keep there heads above water, right?
We have had poorer managers and poorer teams. But we have never had a manager and team who simply don't like to attack and make the same basic errors at the back week in, week out. Going on for over two seasons now.
It really doesn't matter what class of player we bring in. Jol would be unable to play a team with any forward momentum. The club are clearly to blame with lack of investment. But then lack of tactics is the main factor.
My sense of the situation is that Jol will see out his contract to the end of the season, with players, Mac and Khan support. Nothing convinces me otherwise. There are enough tourists around to the fill the ground if home supporters stay away. 075.gif
1st January, FFC vs West Ham: after a dire run of fixtures, this will be (again) the make-or-break for Fulham.
Win it and we'll be in sight of safety and stuck with Jol for the duration. Rest of the season, we may be lucky and stay up, which Jol (and Ali Mac, and Khan) will see as job done. If we are less than lucky we're down, and we stay down, because who of the current bunch is going to stay and be capable of getting us back up? Karagounis? Rodders? Kasami will go, Berba will go, Ruiz might as well go.
Lose on the 1st and we'll be adrift and rudderless and Jol and possibly AliMac will be fired. No idea if we will survive. Depends who we bring in, both as manager and on the coaching side, and in terms of players.
Cookie !!!!!
Quote from: Logicalman on October 31, 2013, 04:31:31 AM
Cookie !!!!!
Jean Tigana! I reckon he will have learnt from past errors and want to make a real go of managing in the prem. He had us playing the best football I have ever seen down by the Thames!
No idea what he's up to these days, though?
We don't know what's going on behind the scenes.
One thing I guarantee is that the club is well aware of the fans feelings about Jol and the standard of football being served up and my sense of Khan is that he's a Bransonesque type who likes to be liked. Removal of the statue and everything he has said suggests that.
Things can't and in my opinion won't carry on like this much longer. Until recently there was a significant amount of support for Jol amongst people like me who want him to succeed, don't find him personally offensive and admire his CV. Somehow and notwithstanding the Everton and Palace wins that support has vanished. I think the atmosphere on Saturday may well become toxic if we get the "performance" we all expect.
I may be wrong but I doubt that firing Jol is within Mackintosh's remit. He runs the business not the football and is not the boss. Under MAF he would have been informed of the sacking and then maybe tasked with helping to find a successor.
My opinion is that unless things improve miraculously Jol is in his last few weeks.
Quote from: BestOfBrede on October 31, 2013, 08:23:21 AM
Quote from: Logicalman on October 31, 2013, 04:31:31 AM
Cookie !!!!!
Jean Tigana! I reckon he will have learnt from past errors and want to make a real go of managing in the prem. He had us playing the best football I have ever seen down by the Thames!
No idea what he's up to these days, though?
after resigning from some Chinese team not a lot, probably on his vineyard in France.
They appear to have a lot of faith in there being three worse teams than us & that we'll also chance it on a pound land budget
How many of the club will remain should we drop???
Quote from: mangoputney on October 31, 2013, 09:01:43 AM
They appear to have a lot of faith in there being three worse teams than us & that we'll also chance it on a pound land budget
How many of the club will remain should we drop???
As things stand Palace, Sunderland, Stoke and Norwich are certainly no better than us so that may just be a plan. Not a good one of course.
Hard to think that Khan bought the club intending, or willing to allow, it to decline.
Relegation need not be a disaster - it depends on the financial health of the club and the determination of the owner to get it back up. For an American owner relegation means that the club becomes internationally invisible - the last thing he'd want.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on October 31, 2013, 09:07:54 AM
Quote from: mangoputney on October 31, 2013, 09:01:43 AM
They appear to have a lot of faith in there being three worse teams than us & that we'll also chance it on a pound land budget
How many of the club will remain should we drop???
As things stand Palace, Sunderland, Stoke and Norwich are certainly no better than us so that may just be a plan. Not a good one of course.
Hard to think that Khan bought the club intending, or willing to allow, it to decline.
Relegation need not be a disaster - it depends on the financial health of the club and the determination of the owner to get it back up. For an American owner relegation means that the club becomes internationally invisible - the last thing he'd want.
That's a debatable point, obviously.
Stoke gave Man U. a good run for their money last Saturday and now have a chance for revenge in the League Cup QF. I have no expectation of our gaining any points in the next couple of fixtures.
But, overall, I wholeheartedly agree with the premise of this thread and have thought it many times in various circumstances and in various walks of life : if we can all see it, why can't 'they' ?
Quote from: TonyGilroy on October 31, 2013, 09:07:54 AM
Quote from: mangoputney on October 31, 2013, 09:01:43 AM
They appear to have a lot of faith in there being three worse teams than us & that we'll also chance it on a pound land budget
How many of the club will remain should we drop???
As things stand Palace, Sunderland, Stoke and Norwich are certainly no better than us so that may just be a plan. Not a good one of course.
Hard to think that Khan bought the club intending, or willing to allow, it to decline.
Relegation need not be a disaster - it depends on the financial health of the club and the determination of the owner to get it back up. For an American owner relegation means that the club becomes internationally invisible - the last thing he'd want.
My tuppence worth is that: -
* Khan has made statements about improving on the 12/13 finish as defining 'success'
* Jol's contract is up next summer
* if we fail to improve on last years league position then Khan has a factual reason to not offer Jol (& the back room staff) new contracts
* the plan assumes that Khan has received advice that we are good enough to survive and he believes it. Unlike the Jaguars, FFC could be relegated and his investment will diminish
* whilst we sit above the bottom 3 the 13/14 strategy is working so Jol stays
Don't say I agree with this, or that I have a personal line to Mr Khan. Just my guesses
Quote from: Logicalman on October 31, 2013, 04:31:31 AM
Cookie !!!!!
The word is that Cookie is thinking about the Palace job, it could soon be too late for us to sign him.
Quote from: FFC73 on October 31, 2013, 09:43:14 AM
Quote from: TonyGilroy on October 31, 2013, 09:07:54 AM
Quote from: mangoputney on October 31, 2013, 09:01:43 AM
They appear to have a lot of faith in there being three worse teams than us & that we'll also chance it on a pound land budget
How many of the club will remain should we drop???
As things stand Palace, Sunderland, Stoke and Norwich are certainly no better than us so that may just be a plan. Not a good one of course.
Hard to think that Khan bought the club intending, or willing to allow, it to decline.
Relegation need not be a disaster - it depends on the financial health of the club and the determination of the owner to get it back up. For an American owner relegation means that the club becomes internationally invisible - the last thing he'd want.
My tuppence worth is that: -
* Khan has made statements about improving on the 12/13 finish as defining 'success'
* Jol's contract is up next summer
* if we fail to improve on last years league position then Khan has a factual reason to not offer Jol (& the back room staff) new contracts
* the plan assumes that Khan has received advice that we are good enough to survive and he believes it. Unlike the Jaguars, FFC could be relegated and his investment will diminish
* whilst we sit above the bottom 3 the 13/14 strategy is working so Jol stays
Don't say I agree with this, or that I have a personal line to Mr Khan. Just my guesses
I think your spot on, which means a turgid season of football
Think the club need to think about its ST holders... If we don't invest / remodel / new coach / manager next summer after staying up, I'm tempted not to renew as it's been dire
Quote from: mangoputney on October 31, 2013, 11:00:44 AM
Quote from: FFC73 on October 31, 2013, 09:43:14 AM
Quote from: TonyGilroy on October 31, 2013, 09:07:54 AM
Quote from: mangoputney on October 31, 2013, 09:01:43 AM
They appear to have a lot of faith in there being three worse teams than us & that we'll also chance it on a pound land budget
How many of the club will remain should we drop???
As things stand Palace, Sunderland, Stoke and Norwich are certainly no better than us so that may just be a plan. Not a good one of course.
Hard to think that Khan bought the club intending, or willing to allow, it to decline.
Relegation need not be a disaster - it depends on the financial health of the club and the determination of the owner to get it back up. For an American owner relegation means that the club becomes internationally invisible - the last thing he'd want.
My tuppence worth is that: -
* Khan has made statements about improving on the 12/13 finish as defining 'success'
* Jol's contract is up next summer
* if we fail to improve on last years league position then Khan has a factual reason to not offer Jol (& the back room staff) new contracts
* the plan assumes that Khan has received advice that we are good enough to survive and he believes it. Unlike the Jaguars, FFC could be relegated and his investment will diminish
* whilst we sit above the bottom 3 the 13/14 strategy is working so Jol stays
Don't say I agree with this, or that I have a personal line to Mr Khan. Just my guesses
I think your spot on, which means a turgid season of football
Think the club need to think about its ST holders... If we don't invest / remodel / new coach / manager next summer after staying up, I'm tempted not to renew as it's been dire
My dad has said exactly the same thing
I didn't renew this year. Not entirely football reasons - I have two kids going through university this year and savings needed to be made - but sitting in the Hammersmith End last last season made the decision easier than it might have been.
Quote from: The Bronsons on October 31, 2013, 06:30:04 PM
I didn't renew this year. Not entirely football reasons - I have two kids going through university this year and savings needed to be made - but sitting in the Hammersmith End last last season made the decision easier than it might have been.
Good point, we've spent so much energy on how dire we are right now we forget how dire we were last season. Only a good start and and a bit of life in the middle kept us from going down because we had two long spells of pointless football.
Cheers for having two kids in university....my day is coming to be in the same boat.
