Its blindingly obvious Jol is not going to turn this around, its over do something now.
To be honest, as much as I hate to admit it, football clubs are run like businesses. I think Ali Mac is worried that if he were to give Jol his P45, he'll be asked why it didn't happen sooner, & then be given his own marching orders.
Only my thoughts, though...
Quote from: Alan on November 10, 2013, 12:56:10 PM
To be honest, as much as I hate to admit it, football clubs are run like businesses. I think Ali Mac is worried that if he were to give Jol his P45, he'll be asked why it didn't happen sooner, & then be given his own marching orders.
Only my thoughts, though...
I recon your not far off
I think little mac does not have the balls to sack jol as he thinks he will lose face over his appointment of jol. People make mistakes but you need to man up admit its not working and move him on
I think Mackintosh has given Jol more than a fair crack of the whip, personally I'd say now that the players heads are down its time for an emergency board meeting monday/tuesday Jol voted out and Kit Symons voted in as caretaker boss. A new permanent boss hopefully by December with the promise of 10/20million in the January window, Its never too late.
Why the assumption that sacking Jol is within Mackintosh's remit?
He wouldn't have had that power under MAF.
It's all down to maths....
- (Martin Jol + P45) = Current league position + 10
QED!
Quote from: TonyGilroy on November 10, 2013, 02:15:13 PM
Why the assumption that sacking Jol is within Mackintosh's remit?
He wouldn't have had that power under MAF.
All the soundings indicate that Khan has given mackintosh this remit, but obviously as owner Khan would have the final say
Quote from: premFlem on November 10, 2013, 02:42:21 PM
Quote from: TonyGilroy on November 10, 2013, 02:15:13 PM
Why the assumption that sacking Jol is within Mackintosh's remit?
He wouldn't have had that power under MAF.
All the soundings indicate that Khan has given mackintosh this remit, but obviously as owner Khan would have the final say
What "soundings"?
Quote from: TonyGilroy on November 10, 2013, 02:51:54 PM
Quote from: premFlem on November 10, 2013, 02:42:21 PM
Quote from: TonyGilroy on November 10, 2013, 02:15:13 PM
Why the assumption that sacking Jol is within Mackintosh's remit?
He wouldn't have had that power under MAF.
All the soundings indicate that Khan has given mackintosh this remit, but obviously as owner Khan would have the final say
What "soundings"?
Chief executive officer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_executive_officer
A chief executive officer (CEO) is the highest-ranking corporate officer (executive) or administrator in charge of total management of an organization.
Quote from: WhiteJC on November 10, 2013, 12:59:44 PM
Quote from: Alan on November 10, 2013, 12:56:10 PM
To be honest, as much as I hate to admit it, football clubs are run like businesses. I think Ali Mac is worried that if he were to give Jol his P45, he'll be asked why it didn't happen sooner, & then be given his own marching orders.
Only my thoughts, though...
I recon your not far off
I feel the same. Ali Mac is just as responsible for the shambles that is our team as Jol, so he has bought into the lie that 'we will be ok' as much as Jol, hence the lack of action. He doesn't realize his hubris, or fear, will likely mean losing his job.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on November 10, 2013, 02:51:54 PM
Quote from: premFlem on November 10, 2013, 02:42:21 PM
Quote from: TonyGilroy on November 10, 2013, 02:15:13 PM
Why the assumption that sacking Jol is within Mackintosh's remit?
He wouldn't have had that power under MAF.
All the soundings indicate that Khan has given mackintosh this remit, but obviously as owner Khan would have the final say
What "soundings"?
Didn't Khan say he's trusting Jol & Mac to run the side?
I would expect some sort of announcement tomo.
Surely SOMETHING has to happen or at least be said?
Might go and mooch around Motspur Park tomo to see what's going on.
macKintosh is badly at fault for this mess.
we have the wrong ceo
the wrong manager and unless the ceo gets rid of the manager we should be rid of both of them. that is just the way it is.
Little unfair to blame Ali Mac. He is just the do'er for a wealthy boss. If they say jump (or not seemingly not in this case) what can he do? Not his company. Not his money. It's the problem working for wealthy one-man owner.
I think all the money and all the thinking since at least last year was on selling the club and getting a new owner. It obviously tied up finances so that we had to get older players and loanees, each of which has caused problems. Jol has just not been the right person to manage under these circumstances. As has been said before, Sparky saw the writing on the wall and threw his towel in, didn't he say something like we would fall apart and we now have.
Sent from my GT-I9505
Quote from: MikeW on November 10, 2013, 06:23:12 PM
Little unfair to blame Ali Mac. He is just the do'er for a wealthy boss. If they say jump (or not seemingly not in this case) what can he do? Not his company. Not his money. It's the problem working for wealthy one-man owner.
As the owner Khan has entrusted ceo Mackintosh to oversee
the hiring and firing decisions. I presume he's paid
handsomely for that responsibility
I bet nothing happens until after the inevitable defeat to Swansea. fp.gif
Khan, rightly, does not want to appear as a typical trigger-happy foreign owner. Stability is always better than constant change, so I think he will wait to see whether we beat a team that is around us in the league.
Trouble is, we all know that Jol has 'lost' the dressing room so it would be best to get rid now. It would give us 2 weeks to work on drills, new formation etc. A good manager would get this team playing well enough to stay up, no problem.
"Stability is always better than constant change"
Even if true (very doubtful), they are not the only options. Judicious change is always the sensible option, and never more needed than now to remove the poison that is Jol.
Quote from: Scrumpy on November 10, 2013, 10:20:03 PM
I bet nothing happens until after the inevitable defeat to Swansea. fp.gif
Khan, rightly, does not want to appear as a typical trigger-happy foreign owner. Stability is always better than constant change, so I think he will wait to see whether we beat a team that is around us in the league.
Trouble is, we all know that Jol has 'lost' the dressing room so it would be best to get rid now. It would give us 2 weeks to work on drills, new formation etc. A good manager would get this team playing well enough to stay up, no problem.
:plus one:
I think that Ali Mac has something to act on now Almost 1/3 of the games played and only 10 points on the board when a minimum of 40 is required. In this league this is a tough remit. I know that it is possible to avoid the drop on paper but as I've said before games aren't played on paper. Jol needs to go now. Paying him off is back pocket small change.
Of course Jol needs to go now but we don't understand the mechanisms at work within the club.
Under MAF the decision we know would have been his. We don't know what authority Mackintosh has and what he's saying to Khan but my assumption is that the decision rests with Khan.
It's not impossible that he sees wins against Stoke and Palace and defeats against top four clubs and shrugs his shoulders.
Personally I have no doubt that we're relegated spinelessly unless there's a very quick change of manager but does Khan see it that way from thousands of miles away?
Quote from: TonyGilroy on November 11, 2013, 07:47:12 AM
Of course Jol needs to go now but we don't understand the mechanisms at work within the club.
Under MAF the decision we know would have been his. We don't know what authority Mackintosh has and what he's saying to Khan but my assumption is that the decision rests with Khan.
It's not impossible that he sees wins against Stoke and Palace and defeats against top four clubs and shrugs his shoulders.
Personally I have no doubt that we're relegated spinelessly unless there's a very quick change of manager but does Khan see it that way from thousands of miles away?
I would presume that Mackintosh has
the power to instigate a board
meeting on the matter, the board
decides then the final decision is
with Khan. On the subject of losing
to Top four clubs you dont get into
the bottom three at this stage by just
losing to thoose sides.
I don't presume that Mackintosh has any power as such. In football the owner is the boss not his appointed representatives.
We none of us know what if anything Mackintosh is saying to Khan or how involved Khan is willing to be.
We may be about to see decisive action - God knows it's needed - but if we don't the fault is Khan's.
As ultimately scintillating as that win against palace was at the time, it couldn't have been worse. Big ffc contingent, khan sat near them, lots singing Jol's name. Sacking Jol probably seemed a million miles away at that point.
I'm make it 37 points in last 38 games. We are going down unless something changes. Not just that. We will go down with an absolute whimper.
Hodgson and Lew could turn this around on a part time basis. The club absolutely stinks right now.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on November 11, 2013, 09:02:29 AM
I don't presume that Mackintosh has any power as such. In football the owner is the boss not his appointed representatives.
We none of us know what if anything Mackintosh is saying to Khan or how involved Khan is willing to be.
We may be about to see decisive action - God knows it's needed - but if we don't the fault is Khan's.
So you believe that Mr Khan with no knowledge of football as we know it would not give his ceo Mr Mackintosh and the board of directors the power to fire and hire a manager .....come on
Quote from: premFlem on November 11, 2013, 10:54:52 AM
Quote from: TonyGilroy on November 11, 2013, 09:02:29 AM
I don't presume that Mackintosh has any power as such. In football the owner is the boss not his appointed representatives.
We none of us know what if anything Mackintosh is saying to Khan or how involved Khan is willing to be.
We may be about to see decisive action - God knows it's needed - but if we don't the fault is Khan's.
So you believe that Mr Khan with no knowledge of football as we know it would not give his ceo Mr Mackintosh and the board of directors the power to fire and hire a manager .....come on
I'm certain of it and I wouldn't assume that Khan knows nothing about football or, at least, believes himself to be ignorant.
Has Mackintosh's job changed with the change of ownership?
I suspect not and there's therefore a vacuum. MAF would have sacked Jol by now - he wouldn't have delegated that power or decision.
Quote from: nose on November 10, 2013, 06:21:10 PM
macKintosh is badly at fault for this mess.
we have the wrong ceo
the wrong manager and unless the ceo gets rid of the manager we should be rid of both of them. that is just the way it is.
Sorry but wasn't he involved in bringing Woy??
Quote from: TonyGilroy on November 11, 2013, 11:02:51 AM
Quote from: premFlem on November 11, 2013, 10:54:52 AM
Quote from: TonyGilroy on November 11, 2013, 09:02:29 AM
I don't presume that Mackintosh has any power as such. In football the owner is the boss not his appointed representatives.
We none of us know what if anything Mackintosh is saying to Khan or how involved Khan is willing to be.
We may be about to see decisive action - God knows it's needed - but if we don't the fault is Khan's.
So you believe that Mr Khan with no knowledge of football as we know it would not give his ceo Mr Mackintosh and the board of directors the power to fire and hire a manager .....come on
I'm certain of it and I wouldn't assume that Khan knows nothing about football or, at least, believes himself to be ignorant.
Has Mackintosh's job changed with the change of ownership?
I suspect not and there's therefore a vacuum. MAF would have sacked Jol by now - he wouldn't have delegated that power or decision.
so mr khan loves his footie takes full control and hasn't allowed his ceo and board of directors to have any say in our clubs affairs......Phew! thats a relief...!!!
Do you really believe that the Chelsea CEO runs Chelsea or might it be Abramovich?
Ditto every other Premier League club. At West Ham do you think Gold and Sullivan delegate big decisions. Did Sunderland's CEO sack DiCanio or was it the American owner?
We don't know how knowledgeable Khan is or what sort of owner he'll turn out to be. We're about to find out.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on November 11, 2013, 12:55:02 PM
Do you really believe that the Chelsea CEO runs Chelsea or might it be Abramovich?
Ditto every other Premier League club. At West Ham do you think Gold and Sullivan delegate big decisions. Did Sunderland's CEO sack DiCanio or was it the American owner?
We don't know how knowledgeable Khan is or what sort of owner he'll turn out to be. We're about to find out.
Tony my take on this is Khan brought Fulham purely as an investment and unlike the examples you give such as chelsea which really is a richmans plaything or west hams and even Mafs labours of love , its just investment which includes clever extra publicity for his other investment the Jacksonville Jags I believe he has no real interest in soccer. As an investment MAF would have told the potential purchaser that the ceo and board of directors were all good men and true and could be relied upon to make tough decisions if necessary and as a non savvy potential purchaser Khan would of thought yes thankyou very much. Having said that I believe rightly or wrongly the Mackintosh and the board have been left too pull the strings believing this to be true the title of the post implies I think they are relying to much on Jol to come good which I personally believe wont happen. Tony were going to have to beg to differ on this one.
And of course neither of us knows but if he's not careful his investment is going to look none too clever.
Tony,
The investment, that's the bit I don't get. If you pay vast sums for any business (as Khan did) why would you not be actively involved daily and want to know what is going wrong. Khan must know, if we get relegated, (which will surely happen if Jol stays), his investment will be worth diddly. What business man does that, but due to any statement or information forthcoming (except silly comments from Jol) we can only assume what is going on.Anyway, I fly in next week and will be at the Swansea game. Remember, I have NEVER seen Fulham lose in about 20 years when I attend. fp.gif
How much is the land on the Thames worth again?
Quote from: FFC1987 on November 11, 2013, 03:26:54 PM
How much is the land on the Thames worth again?
Thought to be about £30M 10 years ago.
Whatever else Khan hasn't bought us for the land value.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on November 11, 2013, 04:54:35 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on November 11, 2013, 03:26:54 PM
How much is the land on the Thames worth again?
Thought to be about £30M 10 years ago.
Whatever else Khan hasn't bought us for the land value.
Affects the sale of the club though which seems overlooked by most journalists.
