our best manager in many people's eyes
2 wins in his first 16 games if i counted correctly
and his first win was only after 8 games
rene's record is comparable to that, or am i missing something
i recall going to the away defeat at Newcastle in the freezing cold and snow under roy a manager i always liked, and we were an absolutely shambles, worse than the current team in many ways and wondered if my faith was misplaced..... but ther board kept their nerve and it paid off.
that is what they should have done now!
I can only assume that Ali Mack saw something he didn't like behind the scenes.
Nogood "what I dunno, isit" Boyo
Did we concede 33 in 13 under Hodgson?
(Apologies if we actually did, just assuming we didn't)
4 wins actually.
The games under Hodgson were a lot harder than those under Meulensteen.
We conceded 18 in 13 under Roy.
Quote from: Putney on February 14, 2014, 10:26:14 PM
4 wins actually.
The games under Hodgson were a lot harder than those under Meulensteen.
We conceded 18 in 13 under Roy.
i take your word for it but what were the four wins in 16 games, i still make it two
Quote from: nose on February 14, 2014, 10:36:08 PM
Quote from: Putney on February 14, 2014, 10:26:14 PM
4 wins actually.
The games under Hodgson were a lot harder than those under Meulensteen.
We conceded 18 in 13 under Roy.
i take your word for it but what were the four wins in 16 games, i still make it two
got it yes 4 in 16 but my error was i mistook his start date so counted two games that he wasn't here...
But in fact he won two games in his first 14, which is still unimpressive and i think 3 wins in 16 because the 15th was reading and 16 th liverpool..because his first game was a draw with birmingham
Lewington was in charge for the Birmingham game IIRC
(http://oi62.tinypic.com/5374ih.jpg)
*that should be 0-2 for the Liverpool game under Hodgson. Keep thinking that Benayoun 1-0 game was that season when it wasn't.
Quote from: Putney on February 14, 2014, 10:49:37 PM
Lewington was in charge for the Birmingham game IIRC
(http://oi62.tinypic.com/5374ih.jpg)
*that should be 0-2 for the Liverpool game under Hodgson. Keep thinking that Benayoun 1-0 game was that season when it wasn't.
well we aren't going to fall out over this..it's late, i suppose it is mean to include the birnmingham game but what i was trying tio show was roy had a long run of extremely miserable reults and performances, i recall being very concerned just about the style of play.
i will be behinf=nd the lads as usual at albion where i vowed to go before the change.
Quote from: nose on February 14, 2014, 10:55:46 PM
well we aren't going to fall out over this..it's late, i suppose it is mean to include the birnmingham game but what i was trying tio show was roy had a long run of extremely miserable reults and performances, i recall being very concerned just about the style of play.
i will be behinf=nd the lads as usual at albion where i vowed to go before the change.
Although Hodgson was appointed in time for the Birmingham game, Lewington ran the training sessions, did the prep and managed them on game day, hence that game not being included in this as Roy had no input whatsoever.
It was miserable at times I agree, but we weren't getting thumped by other relegation fodder or looking completely hopeless. That Villa game was great, one of my favourites of that season.
Fulham ,we have been on a downward spiral since ray left,that's when it started to go wrong.
Quote from: hovewhite on February 14, 2014, 11:09:32 PM
Fulham ,we have been on a downward spiral since ray left,that's when it started to go wrong.
do you not think hughes had us playing well, he brought moose and when alll the injured players returned we started to do quite well, i was optimistic then
Quote from: nose on February 15, 2014, 02:28:11 PM
Quote from: hovewhite on February 14, 2014, 11:09:32 PM
Fulham ,we have been on a downward spiral since ray left,that's when it started to go wrong.
do you not think hughes had us playing well, he brought moose and when alll the injured players returned we started to do quite well, i was optimistic then
I agree Hughes eventually had things going very nicely and we were looking like a team again. When Hughes left, his statement ironically hid the fact that what he was saying was correct and Jol never really got to terms with the team. Rene had the team playing better in bits and we had a goodish transfer window for once. Now we seem to have taken a step back again with a manager who hasn't had a job for a bit and never in the Prem. Khan giving all the praise of our transfer window to the MD and not mentioning our coach.
Quote from: nose on February 15, 2014, 02:28:11 PM
Quote from: hovewhite on February 14, 2014, 11:09:32 PM
Fulham ,we have been on a downward spiral since ray left,that's when it started to go wrong.
do you not think hughes had us playing well, he brought moose and when alll the injured players returned we started to do quite well, i was optimistic then
Let's see, Hughes: one season, 2nd highest league finish in history, attractive football. Yeah, that sounds like a downward spiral.
actually going back to my main point... roy had a dreadful start, some of the perfomances were totally dire and shambolic, it takes time.
rene i think was on the right lines, we shall now be cheated of the chance to see how it would have turned out. i am exceptionally pesimistic, margath may be the best manager in the world but under these conditions i think it is to great a task.
the board should have kept its nerve. slow to get rid of the abominable jol and too quick to get rid of rene.
Quote from: nose on February 15, 2014, 02:44:43 PM
actually going back to my main point... roy had a dreadful start, some of the perfomances were totally dire and shambolic, it takes time.
rene i think was on the right lines, we shall now be cheated of the chance to see how it would have turned out. i am exceptionally pesimistic, margath may be the best manager in the world but under these conditions i think it is to great a task.
the board should have kept its nerve. slow to get rid of the abominable jol and too quick to get rid of rene.
But which of us thought Rene was on the right lines after Swansea, Southampton and Sheffield United? That's the context of the change and Mackintosh/Khan clearly didn't change tack after Liverpool. Should they have done? Don't know.
Roy had managerial experience, Rene did/does not. Maybe there were things seen behind the scenes that the powers that be didn't like.
Not that I wasn't surprised Rene got sacked, but comparing a guy with 20 years managerial experience across the entire globe almost to a guy who has managed for a year at most and unsuccessfully before getting the Fulham job is a bit pointless.
In many ways Rene is more Sanchez than Hodgson. Couldn't arrest the Coleman decline, had no relevant management experience, wasn't given much time and was replaced by a vastly experienced man.
Quote from: God The Mechanic on February 15, 2014, 03:59:53 PM
Roy had managerial experience, Rene did/does not. Maybe there were things seen behind the scenes that the powers that be didn't like.
Not that I wasn't surprised Rene got sacked, but comparing a guy with 20 years managerial experience across the entire globe almost to a guy who has managed for a year at most and unsuccessfully before getting the Fulham job is a bit pointless.
i don't agree really.
i think experience is vastly overused term... most of the very experienced managers are failing
further rene was hardly an unkown quantity with all those years at man utd. i probably wouldn't have picked him, but he seemed to be going in the right directoin.
Once agian my point seems to be missed. Roy's start, exeperieinced or not was very poor in terms of performance on the field and results.... in fact the game at man city was a disaster until he had to eat his own prejudice and bring on kamara, a thing he really didn't want to do... for him it was a gamble for me it was obvious (i am not saying i am better than roy, clearly not but he made a bad team selection error on that day).
under khan, roy would have got the boot, no doubt... i didn't think i would have to put it in such simplistic terms.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on February 15, 2014, 04:03:09 PM
In many ways Rene is more Sanchez than Hodgson. Couldn't arrest the Coleman decline, had no relevant management experience, wasn't given much time and was replaced by a vastly experienced man.
see my reply above, the whole sanchez thing is always a good discussion point. he clearly made errors, he wasn't given ong enough, and was excessively unlucky, i can real off the games such as arsenal away (bent ref) middlesboro home (bent ref) and so on and so forth.
actually roy was always a favourite of mine and any time i mentioned his name for us or england before we got him i was shouted down. i had the same feeling about rene, i think in the long run he was the correct man and would have come good.... we will now never know.
The main difference between Roy and Rene's reigns is that Rene took over a team that was even worse than that inherited by Roy because of lack of investment over 2 years. When Khan finally woke up and realised that money had to be spent, Rene was not given enough time to work with the new players - the star buy hasn't even played yet. Roy was allowed the time to pull it around, but Khan has pushed the panic button.
Quote from: nose on February 15, 2014, 04:43:22 PM
i had the same feeling about rene, i think in the long run he was the correct man and would have come good.... we will now never know.
I agree with that.
We may have appointed a guy in his place who's long past his best or a top quality A list manager. I fear the former but he's what we now have so no real point bitching about it.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on February 15, 2014, 05:36:22 PM
Quote from: nose on February 15, 2014, 04:43:22 PM
i had the same feeling about rene, i think in the long run he was the correct man and would have come good.... we will now never know.
I agree with that.
We may have appointed a guy in his place who's long past his best or a top quality A list manager. I fear the former but he's what we now have so no real point bitching about it.
actually there is a point to bitchin' about it for two reasons
1. it is all we can do
2. we were here before the ceo and khan, and will be here (well i will anyway) after they go, they are making our club look genuinely shambolic and i do not like it one little bit. I watch one pathetically incorrect descision after another and am poweless to do anything to stop the shambles other than come on the MB and vent my spleen!
So just to recall the appointment of jol was insane, and i more or less said so at the time, he was a second rate underachieving bully boy with a grossly over inflated reputation. To keep him past the first season was even worse a descision and how we kept him this season defies belief. the bloke was a walking disaster area! I thought given time and support rene would come good and now we have dumpped him, at virtually the worst possible moment and replaced him with by all accounts an ageing bully boy of the worst sort who knows nothing of our game in england.
What else cvn i do but bitch about it? in fact i feel duty bound so to do. Otherwise what is the MB for?
I wasn't trying to shut down discussion or venting. That's what we do here.
Fact is though that like it or not, for better or worse, Magath is the manager and we'd better hope he succeeds.
God, I hate to say it but do you think Hughes saw through Ali Mac and realised his pension rating mattered more than the goodwill of the club? Looks like that now.
What MikeW says is viciously true. Hughes seems to have been the only one with enough eggs to stand up to Mo & Mack. Do you remember the shellacking he received for it.
They sold him a bill of goods about budgets. He called them out on it. He left on a point of principle.
Now we see the mess Mo & Mack created. Of course, Mo has gone, but Mack? What is he still doing in our house?
Nogood "should go the way of Gannex, isit" Boyo
I blame the curse of the Mj statue
I think some of the criticisms of Khan and Mac may prove to be unfair.
It seems to be assumed that Mac was fully behind Jol, and therefore, given Khan's absence of knowledge, it is unsurprising that he kept Jol on when he took over. Arguably Khan kept Jol on for a few more games than was appropriate, but when he did rid us of him we weren't too badly placed vis-à-vis other possible relegation targets and there was much of the season to go.
Appointing Rene was obviously something of a gamble, because of his lack of managerial experience, but not a gamble many here overly criticised, given his sparkling reputation as a coach. And at times things seemed to be working out. But in the light of performances against some of the lesser clubs in the Premiership (not to mention Sheffield United) one couldn't be completely confident that Rene would achieve the consistency of selection, performance and results to keep us up. The break, having exited the Cup, gave the only realistic opportunity for a further change, and clearly Khan, presumably advised by Mac, sees the hugely experienced FM as more likely to get the necessary performances over the next dozen games than R. We will of course never know if he is right in that judgement, but given FM's track record and the lack of consistency of performances under Rene it seems to me to be an understandable call, which we must hope comes off.
What I think it does show, especially when the investment made during the transfer window is taken into account, is that Khan is determined to do his best to keep us a Premiership side. That is surely a plus.
