I'm not saying Martin Jol wasn't the cause of our problems this season however nobody could have predicted how badly this group of players was going to play. If we had kept jol and given him a good transfer window, could he have saved us
No
No
He should have gone last summer or even last spring
Martin Jol is the reason we're like this. How would he have saved us with another window of poor purchases and no workable on-field strategy?
I'll never get over him saying Fulham "had to suffer" against the top teams in the league. As if every other team near the bottom hasn't gotten unforeseen points like Norwich did today. Disgraceful attitude for the manager of a club that made a European final 12 months before he arrived and has had plenty of home success until he destroyed everything.
But Jol was doing all right until the two D's were sold under his nose, and he had to work on a restricted budget and rely on loanees and veterans.
You cannot defend the indefensible!
Definitely not
...No, no and no, what, give him more money - for what, so that he can buy more misfit players to play his negative football? Jol has already ruined Fulham for me and had he stayed, I wouldn't of until he'd gone...
No, and keeping hold of him for the time we did will possibly be our downfall this season.
no
selling dempsey and dembele were not the reason jol was useless.... not playing proper tactics, making insane descisions, purchasing worng player for the wrong reasons, falling out with lewington, falling out with anyone being overated and always underachieving, the man was awful from day one and the many apologists for him were really not helping fulham at all.
I'm sorry, the man was a cancer, and the club became sole-less because of him. Never in my Fulham supporting life did I feel an atmosphere like it, even in the poor old days where we all at least used to stick together.
Andy S ..... Behave 096.gig your winding us up right?????
He is the reason we are in this mess. This is his legacy.
No not in a million years.
God no. He is a complete disgrace and should have left a long time before he finally did. Our worst manager in the PL era when you consider the downfall in quality of the team from when he arrived to when he finally left. Even Simon Davies described him on Twitter recently as "shocking" which shows what the players, who worked with him every day, thought about his abilities.
The reason we are in this mess is due to a lack of spending. Jol may not have been the answer but he was not the problem
It's all been said, but I have to add my piece...NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Jol was the problem not the solution :doh:
Quote from: St Eve on February 24, 2014, 02:45:58 AM
The reason we are in this mess is due to a lack of spending. Jol may not have been the answer but he was not the problem
Could Jol have saved us, given the January window? No! He had the summer window during which Khan said that he gave him everything he wanted - and look what happened. The lack of spending was in the latter days of Fayed, Khan has come up with the goods. The problem was the nature of the acquisitions ("you have to get them when they're bad") and their clue-less application on the pitch. With the benefit of hindsight, Jol should have been sent packing after last season.
"It's too early to worry - we'll be fine" - M. Jol.
LOL. Some on here even blamed him for Saturday's loss 064.gif
The team Jol had after he moved Dembele to CM was probably the best I have seen in my 60 + years following Fulham - although the Jimmy Conway, Les Barratt, Stevie Earle team was probably more exciting. After the Ds were sold it went pear shaped. How quickly people forget.
"Khan gave him everything he wanted"!!!
You've got to be joking. Jol was on about the need to reduce the age of the team just about every week and the powers that be gave him old nags and donkeys. Jol never stood a chance.
No...close thread
No, Non, Nyet, Nej etc, etc, etc. On the contrary, I firmly believe we wouldn't have slid down like we have had he been relieved of duties much earlier. The only problem being - who else? Not 'Arry, surely?
Well 'Arry looks to be about to come back on the market..........
It is Murphys fault for not being able to play until he was 50
If u actually look at the stats, we are worse off since he
Went..lol
The stats would have been as bad had he stayed.
He should have gone earlier, so we could have at least had time to dig ourselves out of this mess. Or at least had the chance to have another two managers before the end of the season :dft011:
Quote from: GloucesterWhite on February 24, 2014, 07:44:56 AM
LOL. Some on here even blamed him for Saturday's loss 064.gif
The team Jol had after he moved Dembele to CM was probably the best I have seen in my 60 + years following Fulham - although the Jimmy Conway, Les Barratt, Stevie Earle team was probably more exciting. After the Ds were sold it went pear shaped. How quickly people forget.
Well you must have missed a lot of years then!
Interesting point though.
The "best" team has to be top division. The 60s team was enormous fun with absolute top quality players but they were never a consistently good team.
Tigana's team never quite did it in the Premier league. Hodgson's top 7 team was probably the best because it was way better than the sum of its parts but , briefly Jol's Dembele/Dempsey team did impress.
WUM post?
Quote from: epsomraver on February 24, 2014, 09:22:18 AM
Quote from: GloucesterWhite on February 24, 2014, 07:44:56 AM
LOL. Some on here even blamed him for Saturday's loss 064.gif
The team Jol had after he moved Dembele to CM was probably the best I have seen in my 60 + years following Fulham - although the Jimmy Conway, Les Barratt, Stevie Earle team was probably more exciting. After the Ds were sold it went pear shaped. How quickly people forget.
Well you must have missed a lot of years then!
Nope.Name me a better one then.
Tigana was none too astute tactically once we made the top division and wasted many, many millions of pounds in nearly getting us relegated.
Jol is why we are where we are!
NO!
I am prepared to accept that Jol wasn't happy with the conditions he worked in e.g. signings but a manager needs to manage and he clearly did a very poor job.
The answer to the question is absolutely not. He lost the fans and more importantly the locker room.
The notion that he was fully supported by MAF, Ali Mac, and Khan is ridiculous at best. Any notion that his players played their best for him this season is ridiculous as well.
I understand that people need a singular target for their frustrations and that Jol did a great job making himself that target ( not at all a compliment ), but EVERYONE at Fulham who has been responsible for the onfield PL product should carry a bit of shame for where we find ourselves.
The supporters, especially those who've paid to attend games, have been let down this season.
Quote from: ToodlesMcToot on February 24, 2014, 01:55:20 PM
The answer to the question is absolutely not. He lost the fans and more importantly the locker room.
The notion that he was fully supported by MAF, Ali Mac, and Khan is ridiculous at best. Any notion that his players played their best for him this season is ridiculous as well.
I understand that people need a singular target for their frustrations and that Jol did a great job making himself that target ( not at all a compliment ), but EVERYONE at Fulham who has been responsible for the onfield PL product should carry a bit of shame for where we find ourselves.
The supporters, especially those who've paid to attend games, have been let down this season.
0001.jpeg Excellent post
Quote from: GloucesterWhite on February 24, 2014, 07:44:56 AM
LOL. Some on here even blamed him for Saturday's loss 064.gif
The team Jol had after he moved Dembele to CM was probably the best I have seen in my 60 + years following Fulham - although the Jimmy Conway, Les Barratt, Stevie Earle team was probably more exciting. After the Ds were sold it went pear shaped. How quickly people forget.
Agreed - the team that destroyed Norwich 5-0 played some of the best free flowing, 90 minutes displays of attacking football Fulham have played in the Premiership. Unfortunately the follow up display at Old Trafford persuaded Spurs ( and possibly some of the other 'big boys') that they too fancied most of our midfield and the rest was history.
So in answer to the original question - no, Jol could not have saved us this season. In mitigation he did not apparently have any money to use in a number of transfer periods and had to make do with loans and free transfers, but I was particularly disappointed that when we reached 37 points so quickly least season he did not then introduce some younger players with an eye on this season.
So as others have pointed out he was a problem, but not the only one.
The really interesting question to pose however is IF he had been well supported financially over more than one transfer window could he have even moved us up to the next level?
Jol certainly could certainly produce an attacking team - and equally certainly could not balance it with a defensively sound team. Maybe the loss of Ray Lewington to Roy and England afected Fulham more than was apparent at the time!
No.
Ok let's not pretent that if Jol had a proper chance in the transfer market he would have created a wondeful side. Fans always point out the odd half of Football or the Norwich game. Fact is he had some good players but failed to make them into a good team consistantly. He appears to have alienated some players and divided the supporters. We ended up not crossing the half way line. This weekends game in the second half is how Jol had us playing most of the time.
Thie mistake was keeping him on as long as we did. Mind you from day one in the Prem rounds of the Europa League I was saying the same thing. Very dull and boring. Just like we played 99% of the time.
Quote from: copthornemike on February 24, 2014, 04:17:59 PM
Quote from: GloucesterWhite on February 24, 2014, 07:44:56 AM
LOL. Some on here even blamed him for Saturday's loss 064.gif
The team Jol had after he moved Dembele to CM was probably the best I have seen in my 60 + years following Fulham - although the Jimmy Conway, Les Barratt, Stevie Earle team was probably more exciting. After the Ds were sold it went pear shaped. How quickly people forget.
Agreed - the team that destroyed Norwich 5-0 played some of the best free flowing, 90 minutes displays of attacking football Fulham have played in the Premiership. Unfortunately the follow up display at Old Trafford persuaded Spurs ( and possibly some of the other 'big boys') that they too fancied most of our midfield and the rest was history.
So in answer to the original question - no, Jol could not have saved us this season. In mitigation he did not apparently have any money to use in a number of transfer periods and had to make do with loans and free transfers, but I was particularly disappointed that when we reached 37 points so quickly least season he did not then introduce some younger players with an eye on this season.
So as others have pointed out he was a problem, but not the only one.
The really interesting question to pose however is IF he had been well supported financially over more than one transfer window could he have even moved us up to the next level?
Jol certainly could certainly produce an attacking team - and equally certainly could not balance it with a defensively sound team. Maybe the loss of Ray Lewington to Roy and England afected Fulham more than was apparent at the time!
Funny how, judging by some of the comments on here, only you and I saw that game against Norwich! Beautiful football. THAT was Jol's team. What he was GIVEN after Dembele, Dempsy and Murphy were sold (no jarv, Jol didn't dismantle the team) was the start of the decline. No Jol couldn't make a decent team out of the freebies and loanees he was given following the departure of the heart of his team, but nobody else could either. Whether Jol could have taken us further if money had been spent we will never know. But the way Jol is treated here is very unjust.
Quote from: GloucesterWhite on February 24, 2014, 04:55:41 PM
Quote from: copthornemike on February 24, 2014, 04:17:59 PM
Quote from: GloucesterWhite on February 24, 2014, 07:44:56 AM
LOL. Some on here even blamed him for Saturday's loss 064.gif
The team Jol had after he moved Dembele to CM was probably the best I have seen in my 60 + years following Fulham - although the Jimmy Conway, Les Barratt, Stevie Earle team was probably more exciting. After the Ds were sold it went pear shaped. How quickly people forget.
Agreed - the team that destroyed Norwich 5-0 played some of the best free flowing, 90 minutes displays of attacking football Fulham have played in the Premiership. Unfortunately the follow up display at Old Trafford persuaded Spurs ( and possibly some of the other 'big boys') that they too fancied most of our midfield and the rest was history.
So in answer to the original question - no, Jol could not have saved us this season. In mitigation he did not apparently have any money to use in a number of transfer periods and had to make do with loans and free transfers, but I was particularly disappointed that when we reached 37 points so quickly least season he did not then introduce some younger players with an eye on this season.
So as others have pointed out he was a problem, but not the only one.
The really interesting question to pose however is IF he had been well supported financially over more than one transfer window could he have even moved us up to the next level?
Jol certainly could certainly produce an attacking team - and equally certainly could not balance it with a defensively sound team. Maybe the loss of Ray Lewington to Roy and England afected Fulham more than was apparent at the time!
Funny how, judging by some of the comments on here, only you and I saw that game against Norwich! Beautiful football. THAT was Jol's team. What he was GIVEN after Dembele, Dempsy and Murphy were sold (no jarv, Jol didn't dismantle the team) was the start of the decline. No Jol couldn't make a decent team out of the freebies and loanees he was given following the departure of the heart of his team, but nobody else could either. Whether Jol could have taken us further if money had been spent we will never know. But the way Jol is treated here is very unjust.
The last time I was truly delighted with a Fulham performance.
I backed Jol for a long, long time. Probably too long... but when that team played together at Norwich and Old Trafford few could argue we were heading places.
That we sold the Dems wasn't his fault, but that we didn't replace them it was a big mistake to try to play the same total, fluid football. He wasn't right in the selling situation and he never recovered from that. And he wouldn't have kept us up this season.
I supported jol and I believe given the money he could of took us to the next level.however I do think he let himself lose his way. And became very aggresive towards the fans ,in fact I think he was forcing the club to sack him.
I think MJ had run out of idea's.
No tactics
No man management
No ability to manage on budget
No sense when talking to media
No presence on touchline
No sense in choosing coaches
No scruples in buying his agent's clients
No defensive organisation
No attention to fitness
No clue at West Ham away
No idea how to balance a squad (invested scarce resources in three players who play in same position Ruiz, berba and Taraabt)
No real track record in the market Reither..Pog (if you discount luck) déjà at a push...
No sense if priorities: spunked 4m on a GK when funds were tight when we had another season in MS
In a word No.
Nay never....
Quote from: WayneKerrins on February 24, 2014, 09:53:37 PM
No tactics
No man management
No ability to manage on budget
No sense when talking to media
No presence on touchline
No sense in choosing coaches
No scruples in buying his agent's clients
No defensive organisation
No attention to fitness
No clue at West Ham away
No idea how to balance a squad (invested scarce resources in three players who play in same position Ruiz, berba and Taraabt)
No real track record in the market Reither..Pog (if you discount luck) déjà at a push...
No sense if priorities: spunked 4m on a GK when funds were tight when we had another season in MS
In a word No.
Nay never....
Jol's last year and a half were indefensible, but this is just nonsense.
Jol had become a loser, and to quote someone I can't remember...."don't mix with losers,because their despair is contagious"
Quote from: Moussa Dembele the 3rd on February 24, 2014, 09:57:19 PM
Quote from: WayneKerrins on February 24, 2014, 09:53:37 PM
No tactics
No man management
No ability to manage on budget
No sense when talking to media
No presence on touchline
No sense in choosing coaches
No scruples in buying his agent's clients
No defensive organisation
No attention to fitness
No clue at West Ham away
No idea how to balance a squad (invested scarce resources in three players who play in same position Ruiz, berba and Taraabt)
No real track record in the market Reither..Pog (if you discount luck) déjà at a push...
No sense if priorities: spunked 4m on a GK when funds were tight when we had another season in MS
In a word No.
Nay never....
Jol's last year and a half were indefensible, but this is just nonsense.
Quote from: Moussa Dembele the 3rd on February 24, 2014, 09:57:19 PM
Quote from: WayneKerrins on February 24, 2014, 09:53:37 PM
No tactics
No man management
No ability to manage on budget
No sense when talking to media
No presence on touchline
No sense in choosing coaches
No scruples in buying his agent's clients
No defensive organisation
No attention to fitness
No clue at West Ham away
No idea how to balance a squad (invested scarce resources in three players who play in same position Ruiz, berba and Taraabt)
No real track record in the market Reither..Pog (if you discount luck) déjà at a push...
No sense if priorities: spunked 4m on a GK when funds were tight when we had another season in MS
In a word No.
Nay never....
Jol's last year and a half were indefensible, but this is just nonsense.
Which of those points can you rebutt? I'm all ears.
im actually going to say yes, not sure why just have a feeling he would have turned things around
Quote from: @jolslover on February 24, 2014, 10:47:07 PM
im actually going to say yes, not sure why just have a feeling he would have turned things around
WUM alert!
This thread should have been drowned at birth
I disagree Kcat. I know its not the end of the season yet but there have been some serious mistakes made by the club this season. In my opinion it was never an option to leave Jol in place. He lost not only the players but us the paying supporters as well. We are paying the price following two terrible years of very poor results and football that is not enjoyable. Tell me when was the last time any of us looked forward to a match? Yes, I'll support Felix but I think the managers job here this season has been shown to be a poison chalice.
Quote from: Moussa Dembele the 3rd on February 24, 2014, 09:57:19 PM
Quote from: WayneKerrins on February 24, 2014, 09:53:37 PM
No tactics
No man management
No ability to manage on budget
No sense when talking to media
No presence on touchline
No sense in choosing coaches
No scruples in buying his agent's clients
No defensive organisation
No attention to fitness
No clue at West Ham away
No idea how to balance a squad (invested scarce resources in three players who play in same position Ruiz, berba and Taraabt)
No real track record in the market Reither..Pog (if you discount luck) déjà at a push...
No sense if priorities: spunked 4m on a GK when funds were tight when we had another season in MS
In a word No.
Nay never....
Jol's last year and a half were indefensible, but this is just nonsense.
In what sense is this nonsense? Seems a pretty fair summary to me.
Quote from: Twig on February 25, 2014, 06:07:56 AM
Quote from: Moussa Dembele the 3rd on February 24, 2014, 09:57:19 PM
Quote from: WayneKerrins on February 24, 2014, 09:53:37 PM
No tactics
No man management
No ability to manage on budget
No sense when talking to media
No presence on touchline
No sense in choosing coaches
No scruples in buying his agent's clients
No defensive organisation
No attention to fitness
No clue at West Ham away
No idea how to balance a squad (invested scarce resources in three players who play in same position Ruiz, berba and Taraabt)
No real track record in the market Reither..Pog (if you discount luck) déjà at a push...
No sense if priorities: spunked 4m on a GK when funds were tight when we had another season in MS
In a word No.
Nay never....
Jol's last year and a half were indefensible, but this is just nonsense.
In what sense is this nonsense? Seems a pretty fair summary to me.
I feel sorry for youand Wayne Kerrins that you obviously missed out on the exciting football played by Jol's team BEFORE the best players were sold. Maybe you weren't around then? The team since then (when you take out the current loanees) is fit only for the bottom half of the Championship, and that's where we are headed. Why? Because the club's owners did not make money available for quality players. A lot of money should have been spent last summer, instead we got Bent and Taraabt on loan, a freebie centre half, and Parker and Stek.
Yes, Jol went to pieces after the heart of his team was sold. Could anyone have done better? Well nobody has yet. Maybe Magath can get us a few wins now that money has finally been spent, but I can't see him saving us - for a start he seems to prefer to sit and watch
rather than stand on the touchline, one of the failings on your list.
One good game against Norwich, that is all, what about the boring limp effort at Europa he masterminded? Sometimes I wished I had a book to read when we played under Jol, we were that boring
Quote from: epsomraver on February 25, 2014, 10:16:20 AM
One good game against Norwich, that is all, what about the boring limp effort at Europa he masterminded? Sometimes I wished I had a book to read when we played under Jol, we were that boring
Then I have to ask you the question you asked me! Did you miss a lot of games?! And Roy's team has been called boring. Oh for some of that same 'boring' now.
0001.jpeg
Quote from: GloucesterWhite on February 25, 2014, 11:22:39 AM
Quote from: epsomraver on February 25, 2014, 10:16:20 AM
One good game against Norwich, that is all, what about the boring limp effort at Europa he masterminded? Sometimes I wished I had a book to read when we played under Jol, we were that boring
Then I have to ask you the question you asked me! Did you miss a lot of games?! And Roy's team has been called boring. Oh for some of that same 'boring' now.
0001.jpeg
...I agree with Wayne Kerrins' comments, pretty much sums it up for me, as well as the capitulation of the Europa campaign where my doubts about Jol began to formulate.
Just for the record I did endure much of Jol's games, we did have a handful of good games, and capitalised against weak opposition.
We lost the two D's, one of which (Dempsey) everyone seemed to think was not that good and the other Moussa, could have been replaced by Ruinz if he had been up to/for it...
Quote from: GloucesterWhite on February 25, 2014, 08:07:55 AM
Quote from: Twig on February 25, 2014, 06:07:56 AM
Quote from: Moussa Dembele the 3rd on February 24, 2014, 09:57:19 PM
Quote from: WayneKerrins on February 24, 2014, 09:53:37 PM
No tactics
No man management
No ability to manage on budget
No sense when talking to media
No presence on touchline
No sense in choosing coaches
No scruples in buying his agent's clients
No defensive organisation
No attention to fitness
No clue at West Ham away
No idea how to balance a squad (invested scarce resources in three players who play in same position Ruiz, berba and Taraabt)
No real track record in the market Reither..Pog (if you discount luck) déjà at a push...
No sense if priorities: spunked 4m on a GK when funds were tight when we had another season in MS
In a word No.
Nay never....
Jol's last year and a half were indefensible, but this is just nonsense.
In what sense is this nonsense? Seems a pretty fair summary to me.
I feel sorry for youand Wayne Kerrins that you obviously missed out on the exciting football played by Jol's team BEFORE the best players were sold. Maybe you weren't around then? The team since then (when you take out the current loanees) is fit only for the bottom half of the Championship, and that's where we are headed. Why? Because the club's owners did not make money available for quality players. A lot of money should have been spent last summer, instead we got Bent and Taraabt on loan, a freebie centre half, and Parker and Stek.
Yes, Jol went to pieces after the heart of his team was sold. Could anyone have done better? Well nobody has yet. Maybe Magath can get us a few wins now that money has finally been spent, but I can't see him saving us - for a start he seems to prefer to sit and watch
rather than stand on the touchline, one of the failings on your list.
Risible son, risible.
BTW I've been going to games for a while now, I think its 37 years and about 600. I know a bad manager when I see one and Jol without a big cheque book is a bad manager.
