Just watched highlights with Arsenal - Swansea
At 94m 30 seconds and 2-2 Swansea gets a possibility to counter attack, ref (Probert) clearly sees that they are attacking, looks up and see a Swansea player running forward in front of the Arsenal players, when Swansea tries to pass, Probert whistles and match is over, though the attacker would have been alone with keeper if allowed to play on.
Again, this baffles my mind and again I think that the refs do fancy the bigger teams? Yeas 4 minutes was added on, but there is actually no rules that ref can let match keep going another minutes if he thinks it was necessary, if he wanted to end the match, it should have been when Swansea first got the ball outside theire box, not when passing to a open player, who 99% sure would have scored....
Sounds diabolical and it has been remarked on Talksport by Andy Goldstein as such. And the referee knew perfectly well what he was doing to deny the Swans a last-gasp winner and they usually wait until the end of the move.
Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool have been massively 'favoured' by the officials for several years, in my view.
Yeah the guys on TV2 PL studio said the same as you, that "Usually" if ref is aware that its so to say a sure thing to score, they wait until after the attack, and the worst thing is that you can clearly see that Probert lifts hes head and looks to the left and see the player, then look back at the ball, pass comes and he blows! I hate that referee, I have never liked him! Never, and that call was intentional!
The law states that if the allotted time of added time is up, then they can allow an additional 10 seconds AND NO MORE to allow a team one final chance to score.
This is perfectly summed up by the end of the 2008 Carling Cup Final, when the ref (no idea who), blew the whistle for full time as the ball was rolling towards the net (it eventually drifted wide) as he had followed those rules
Quote from: Riether Lightning 63 on March 25, 2014, 10:46:07 PM
The law states that if the allotted time of added time is up, then they can allow an additional 10 seconds AND NO MORE to allow a team one final chance to score.
This is perfectly summed up by the end of the 2008 Carling Cup Final, when the ref (no idea who), blew the whistle for full time as the ball was rolling towards the net (it eventually drifted wide) as he had followed those rules
Does it?
The law also states that the referee is the sole arbiter.
Quote from: Riether Lightning 63 on March 25, 2014, 10:46:07 PM
The law states that if the allotted time of added time is up, then they can allow an additional 10 seconds AND NO MORE to allow a team one final chance to score.
This is perfectly summed up by the end of the 2008 Carling Cup Final, when the ref (no idea who), blew the whistle for full time as the ball was rolling towards the net (it eventually drifted wide) as he had followed those rules
can you show those rules, cus they summarised on TV2, one of them being former manager at Norwegian teams they said that the only thing the FA rules say is that the added time is a minimum time, if the ref see it necessary he can add more if he wants to. Not trying to argue with you cus you can be right, just want to see if there actually is a rule about it, a right or wrong.
According to this http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/generic/81/42/36/lawsofthegame_2011_12_en.pdf (http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/generic/81/42/36/lawsofthegame_2011_12_en.pdf) if you scroll down to page 28
Allowance for time lost
Allowance is made in either period for all time lost through:
• substitutions
• assessment of injury to players
• removal of injured players from the fi eld of play for treatment
• wasting time
• any other cause
The allowance for time lost is at the discretion of the referee.
So from this (fifa rules) there is actually no written rule about it.
Maybe time was up?
I thought this.
From a selfish point of view, I am glad he blew the whistle.... Swansea drawing still keeps them in the mix, but if they got an extra two points, I would have put a line through them as a team for us to catch....
If this was a team slightly higher up, I would feel sorry for them.....
it the time of the game has elapsed it doesn't or should not matter who is attacking and where they are. remember clive thomas in the world cup
My manager (also a good friend despite supporting Chelsea) and I often discuss this topic. He's adamant that the PL officials pressure the refs to favour certain teams, in an effort to ensure a close battle to the end of the season. I think he may be right but it's a theory without substantial evidence, it would surprise me though...
Refs always give extra added on time for penalties & corners. As usual it is the inconsistancy that angers fans.
Quote from: grandad on March 26, 2014, 09:01:33 AM
Refs always give extra added on time for penalties & corners. As usual it is the inconsistancy that angers fans.
A ref has to allow a penalty to be taken, that is the law, strangely there is no such allowance for a corner!
Quote from: K33NY on March 25, 2014, 10:29:13 PM
Just watched highlights with Arsenal - Swansea
At 94m 30 seconds and 2-2 Swansea gets a possibility to counter attack, ref (Probert) clearly sees that they are attacking, looks up and see a Swansea player running forward in front of the Arsenal players, when Swansea tries to pass, Probert whistles and match is over, though the attacker would have been alone with keeper if allowed to play on.
Again, this baffles my mind and again I think that the refs do fancy the bigger teams? Yeas 4 minutes was added on, but there is actually no rules that ref can let match keep going another minutes if he thinks it was necessary, if he wanted to end the match, it should have been when Swansea first got the ball outside theire box, not when passing to a open player, who 99% sure would have scored....
On your description then the player was offside?
There were four minutes of added time and they had gone 30 seconds over that. Why not blow the whistle? Would have been more outrageous had he allowed the attack and they'd scored no?
The game was over and he shopuld have blown up before the counter attack. the question is why did he allow arsenal to keep going when the game was finished, the rule isn't 90 minutes plus time until when arsenal's move breaks down.
Quote from: epsomraver on March 26, 2014, 09:39:21 AM
Quote from: K33NY on March 25, 2014, 10:29:13 PM
Just watched highlights with Arsenal - Swansea
At 94m 30 seconds and 2-2 Swansea gets a possibility to counter attack, ref (Probert) clearly sees that they are attacking, looks up and see a Swansea player running forward in front of the Arsenal players, when Swansea tries to pass, Probert whistles and match is over, though the attacker would have been alone with keeper if allowed to play on.
Again, this baffles my mind and again I think that the refs do fancy the bigger teams? Yeas 4 minutes was added on, but there is actually no rules that ref can let match keep going another minutes if he thinks it was necessary, if he wanted to end the match, it should have been when Swansea first got the ball outside theire box, not when passing to a open player, who 99% sure would have scored....
On your description then the player was offside?
No the player wasnt offside I will try describe it
Near the passer was a Arsenal player, infront of passer was an Arsenal player, to the left of him wasn Arsenal player, Diagonaly was a Swansea player on the run.
Passer makes a through ball diagonally so the player can catch up with it infront of him, and that would have made him alone with keeper, but when pass was made, he was onside. When catching up with ball, he was behind everyone.
Quote from: PokerMatt on March 26, 2014, 10:42:19 AM
There were four minutes of added time and they had gone 30 seconds over that. Why not blow the whistle? Would have been more outrageous had he allowed the attack and they'd scored no?
why did he allowe Arsenal to keep attacking over the added time then?
to be fair it is all irrelevant the ref blew as on his watch the game was over
Quote from: K33NY on March 26, 2014, 11:48:05 AM
Quote from: PokerMatt on March 26, 2014, 10:42:19 AM
There were four minutes of added time and they had gone 30 seconds over that. Why not blow the whistle? Would have been more outrageous had he allowed the attack and they'd scored no?
why did he allowe Arsenal to keep attacking over the added time then?
what is held up is a minimum amount so anywhere between 4 and 4.59 minutes would be considered as meeting that i guess, if it had gone over 5 i would have thought 5 would have been held up by the fourth official.
Also something to consider, were the 4 minutes held up before the own goal? that would of added a few seconds more on the end of the minimum of four minutes shown.
We have fourth officials. At the end of full time, the fourth official should hold up the card with the added time, then operate an electonic hooter (connected to the ground loudspeakers) that is set to go off after full time plus the added time. Simple! Everyone, ref, fans, players and managers can her the hooter and play stops the moment is goes off.
Instead of an electronic hooter, could use a professional drummer at the side of the pitch :drums:
bu the time shown is a minimum, of a goal is scored in that time more additional time can be added, the same for an injury. It is always announced as a minimum so after it has elapsed the whistle can go at any time. Of course the 4th official could put up 4.34 and then a hooter could go subject to no further goals, subs or injuries.
I seem to remember an English ref, during a world cup many years ago, blowing the final whistle as a corner was being taken. As the ball came in a goal was scored and everyone celelbrated and the other team was devestated, but the pillock pointed to the dressing rooms and said the game was over before the ball crossed the line.
Quote from: andyk on March 26, 2014, 02:08:59 PM
I seem to remember an English ref, during a world cup many years ago, blowing the final whistle as a corner was being taken. As the ball came in a goal was scored and everyone celelbrated and the other team was devestated, but the pillock pointed to the dressing rooms and said the game was over before the ball crossed the line.
Clive Thomas he was welsh
Quote from: westcliff white on March 26, 2014, 03:39:37 PM
Quote from: andyk on March 26, 2014, 02:08:59 PM
I seem to remember an English ref, during a world cup many years ago, blowing the final whistle as a corner was being taken. As the ball came in a goal was scored and everyone celelbrated and the other team was devestated, but the pillock pointed to the dressing rooms and said the game was over before the ball crossed the line.
Clive Thomas he was welsh
and never ref'd again if I remember correctly.
heres a vid of clive thomas I founf on youtube..... seriously.... wtf? thats all I have to say to that -.-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0JFuWqwFg4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0JFuWqwFg4)
The time was up so the whistle went. If that's the refs opinion the so be it. Do we need to,play until someone scores?
They were supposed to play 4 minutes of injury time minimum, then Swansea scored which should add another 1 minute. They only played 30 seconds over the allotted 4 minutes and the timing of the whistle was dastardly.
Here is Garry Monk's view on it
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2589702/Monk-slams-Probert-Swansea-denied-chance-score-winner-Arsenal.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2589702/Monk-slams-Probert-Swansea-denied-chance-score-winner-Arsenal.html)
A goal only adds 30 seconds, or at least it did the last time I checked. Swansea scored in the 90th minute and then the whistle blew after 94:41 (according to the BBC). If he did add 30 seconds for the goal, then 4:11 is still "at least" 4 minutes of stoppage time.
correct GTM, refs can add upto 30 seconds for substitutions and celebrations after goals scored
Your analysis that when the 4th official holds up the board that shows 4 minutes so that would mean anywhere between 4 and 4.59 minutes is incorrect, all that shows is at the end of normal time the ref has deemed that a minimum of 4 minutes will be played. If there was a serious injury for example after the 90 was up then the extra time could stretch into many more than 4 minutes. I agree they are some strange interpretations of the laws, I have seen a ref allow a corner( which he does not have to do) and then blow up as soon as ball comes over.
epsom that's what i put on an earlier reply if there is a delay in the 4 minutes time is added on to that. in this case Flamini scored an OG after the board had gone up so it is safe to assume there would have been more time after the 4 minutes had been played. the fact he blew while swansea were attacking to me is irrelevant if time is up time is up.
To defend Probert's disgraceful timing of when he blew the whistle as the player was baring down on goal, I spot a few Gooner sympathizers here....
Quote from: K33NY on March 25, 2014, 10:59:20 PM
According to this http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/generic/81/42/36/lawsofthegame_2011_12_en.pdf (http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/generic/81/42/36/lawsofthegame_2011_12_en.pdf) if you scroll down to page 28
Allowance for time lost
Allowance is made in either period for all time lost through:
• substitutions
• assessment of injury to players
• removal of injured players from the fi eld of play for treatment
• wasting time
• any other cause
The allowance for time lost is at the discretion of the referee.
So from this (fifa rules) there is actually no written rule about it.
Also in addition to the above, the same rulebook has the following for interpretation of the rules:::
Pg 98 - LAW 7 – THE DURATION OF THE MATCH
Allowance for time lostMany stoppages in play are entirely natural (e.g. throw-ins, goal kicks). An allowance is to be made only when these delays are excessive.
The fourth official indicates the minimum additional time decided by the referee at the end of the final minute of each period of play.
The announcement of the additional time does not indicate the exact amount of time left in the match. The time may be increased if the referee considers it appropriate but never reduced.
The referee must not compensate for a timekeeping error during the first half by increasing or reducing the length of the second half.
So there you have it, the laws according to FIFA, and the English FA rules defer to the FIFA rules on their website.
Logicalman you left out the sub-paragraph amendment created by Richard Scudamore exclusively for the Premier League Law 7, section (b), which states:
In the circumstances where a lesser club are likely to score a few seconds beyond the added allotment of time the official must end the match forthwith, however if the greater club are about to score the official must wait until the move is clearly over before he can end the match.
Quote from: Nick Bateman on March 27, 2014, 05:03:10 PM
Logicalman you left out the sub-paragraph amendment created by Richard Scudamore exclusively for the Premier League Law 7, section (b), which states:
In the circumstances where a lesser club are likely to score a few seconds beyond the added allotment of time the official must end the match forthwith, however if the greater club are about to score the official must wait until the move is clearly over before he can end the match.
I thought everyone knew this...
Quote from: Nick Bateman on March 27, 2014, 05:03:10 PM
Logicalman you left out the sub-paragraph amendment created by Richard Scudamore exclusively for the Premier League Law 7, section (b), which states:
In the circumstances where a lesser club are likely to score a few seconds beyond the added allotment of time the official must end the match forthwith, however if the greater club are about to score the official must wait until the move is clearly over before he can end the match.
Yep, my bad, promise to try harder.
