Just reading an interview with Nigel Sears (head of British Women's tennis) and he made the following general comment -
"In America they get behind their sports people, but here there is a sustained level of negative crap," he said. "It gets really tedious after a while. Just look at Andy Murray — a few months ago he was in the final of a grand slam and now he's in crisis. It's ridiculous."
Why do you think its is that our respective approaches are so different when it comes to both the general public and the media in our respective countries?
Lots of money is put into sports with little success in the UK. Tennis and our failure in the Winter Olympics hardly inspires gratitude. Our best sportsman are wildly inconsistent at best. So we are negative.
In the States they have lots of sports and are happy to let players taste success. Fail though and you will be ignored. Fall from grace and they will still hammer the hero.
In the UK we give you a open top bus for winning anything. But we know it was probably a fluke and you wont do it again.
In the States the fear to fail is greater because you don't ride on an open top bus if you win one thing.
Comes down to nationalism, Europe and liberalism has beaten you down to the point you believe nationalism is evil... now taken to the point of Naziism yes it goes to far and is evil. but having a general love of your country isn't evil in fact it behooves you to love your country and try to make it a better place. However some people take it waaaay to far and never admit when their country is wrong, that's not nationalism that's denial and doesn't serve your country at all. That's my two cents... OR it could be because Murry is a giant Scottish deuch who hates the English. So they hate him right back. :doh:
Quote from: McBridefan1 on June 07, 2010, 01:00:47 PM
Comes down to nationalism, Europe and liberalism has beaten you down to the point you believe nationalism is evil... now taken to the point of Naziism yes it goes to far and is evil. but having a general love of your country isn't evil in fact it behooves you to love your country and try to make it a better place. However some people take it waaaay to far and never admit when their country is wrong, that's not nationalism that's denial and doesn't serve your country at all. That's my two cents... OR it could be because Murry is a giant Scottish deuch who hates the English. So they hate him right back. :doh:
If this is true then why are other countries in Europe still nationalistic?
Nationalism has become a dirty word because idiots like the BNP have hijacked the idea of being British/English. It is time for people to say enough is enough and take back being patriotic from the loony right wing.
ok I'll bite,we are a small country,there is only so much money and so much interest to go round, so people focus on what the majority watch and what sells, to me tennis isn't even a sport, it's 2 posh kids called Tarquin with pushy mums hitting a ball over a net,Cliff Richard and Elton John are big fans-says it all,it's something for the toffs to watch while they are eating strawberries and drinking champagne :005:
Quote from: Rambling_Syd_Rumpo on June 07, 2010, 01:17:01 PM
ok I'll bite,we are a small country,there is only so much money and so much interest to go round, so people focus on what the majority watch and what sells, to me tennis isn't even a sport, it's 2 posh kids called Tarquin with pushy mums hitting a ball over a net,Clive Richard and Elton John are big fans-says it all,it's something for the toffs to watch while they are eating strawberries and drinking champagne :005:
That's exactly how Americans view soccer... bunch of rich kid's who's mums won't let them play football or baseball for fear they might get hurt. I don't know I like tennis, I very rarely watch a whole game but once in a while I will...
I used to love tennis to watch. Like football there were so many different styles of play and it was never the same twice. You had great characters too. Now, again like football. money has made everybody play and behave the same. It is a little dull now. As for only posh kids playing it, every school always had a concrete tennis court that was used occasionally to play tennis on.
Quote from: Lighthouse on June 07, 2010, 01:42:50 PM
I used to love tennis to watch. Like football there were so many different styles of play and it was never the same twice. You had great characters too. Now, again like football. money has made everybody play and behave the same. It is a little dull now. As for only posh kids playing it, every school always had a concrete tennis court that was used occasionally to play tennis on.
In my day if you played tennis in Battersea you were regarded as a posh bender.
If you played Rugby you were regarded as a rough bender
If you played cricket you were probably okay but best not to share the same shower with one.
If you didn't play football you were definitely a bender :019:
PS - anyone who went to the Emmanuel was a bender :clap_hands:
Except Equalizer of course!
Well, part of it has to do with cross ownership and cuddly relationships between sports owners and media outlets here in America.
Radio and TV have basically become the mouthpieces of sports teams and organizations (newspapers are still independent, but no one reads them) which in turn spout absolute nonsense to the fans. Although smart fans discern the difference, the average fans don't know any better and lap it up.
Oh, and this song plays a big role too:
God Bless The USA by Lee Greenwood (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRCQypnVeXA#)
I think it goes a bit deeper than that.
In the big picture the US of A is still a young country. I am not talking about 1776 and all that, but the reality is that who ever you bump into in New York either immigrated themselves, or are first or second generation American immigrants. They have one thing in common which is either themselves/parents/grandparents came here to chase the American dream from a difficult environment in Europe or elsewhere.
Therefore, there is an extra level of patriotism/nationalism (in a good way) here. I respect that. You see it now when the WC is coming up. People who normally couldn't care about what an offside means, all of sudden get into the game because the US is in it. You could have the world origami championship here and all of a sudden all Americans would be behind their team.
Also as a result, and not to be ignored, country comes before the club here regardless of sport as opposed to the UK.
I think its a bit of a generalization really, we tear our sports stars down all the time. In fact I would say that US soccer fans are by far the most nationalistic of any American sports fans. International tournaments are irrelevant in baseball, no one cares. There are no international tournaments in American football. In basketball, the international tournaments are relatively important, at least compared to the other two, but watching them is somewhat of a miserable experience. If we win its just a relief, if we lose its an embarrassment.
American soccer fans are far more nationalistic partly cause a lot of us were around when we were irrelevant. I'm 30 so there are obviously older American soccer fans than me but the first World Cup I remember was 1990, the first one we made in ages and we were just overwhelmed. And because its still a new thing its still a fairly big thing to see one of our guys go over to a top European league and be successful.
But even though I would say American soccer fans are highly loyal and supportive a lot of us came down extremely hard on Landon Donovan after the 06 World Cup, after his stints in Germany, etc. He's soft, scared, comfortable being the big fish in the little pond, takes effeminate water fountain pictures, etc.
(http://livorno.theoffside.com/files/2009/08/landon_donovan_gaydar4.jpg)
I've been observing you lot close up since the mid-1960s, and here's the truth: Brits eat their young.
It's not only athletes, but also actors and musicians. Here's the cycle:
a. Mr X does well in Britain. Amidst the applause comes grouchy shouts: "He's not done anything. Anyone can do well in Little Britain. He'd be crap in America/continent."
b. Mr X announces plans to go to America/Continent: "He'll be laughed out of there. He'll be back here in 12 months with his tail between his legs.
c. Mr X does brilliantly in America/on the Continent: "He's gone all big-head on us. He's forgotton he's British. He's turned his back on us. He'll never last.
I've seen it over and over. I don't know why you guys trash your young aspiring artists and athletes, but you do.
Agree with Mr. Lighthouse on tennis. I used to go to Wimbledon one day every year. Great entertainment from the likes of nastase, Connors etc. A great day out (as long as it didn't rain).
American sports....I think the following affects sports fans in USA. Fans are very concentrated. In London, you have 5 (sometimes 6) Premier leage teams plus the others, all in the same city. In New York, you have 1 basketball team, 1 (american)football team. In Boston, you have 1 football team, known as the New England Patriots. So, they are THE team for the whole region of New England. Supporters from hundreds of miles away associate themselves with the Boston teams because their is nothing else.(Except minor league, which can actually be quite good) and college teams (which are over rated cr@p, hyped up like you would not believe) This concentration results in serious following, not only by fans, but tv stations fighting, clambering to get a piece of the action. My guess, part of the deal is to constantly talk them up, else the money goes elsewhere.
That is my simplistic outlook and I have never been able to understand why New York, LA and Chicago do not have 4 basketball teams, 3 baseball teams (it is the national sport after all), etc. etc. Americans are amazed when I explain that you can walk from Fulham to QPR or Chelsea. (or catch a tube 3 or 4 stops).
Quote from: jarv on June 07, 2010, 03:54:45 PM
Agree with Mr. Lighthouse on tennis. I used to go to Wimbledon one day every year. Great entertainment from the likes of nastase, Connors etc. A great day out (as long as it didn't rain).
American sports....I think the following affects sports fans in USA. Fans are very concentrated. In London, you have 5 (sometimes 6) Premier leage teams plus the others, all in the same city. In New York, you have 1 basketball team, 1 (american)football team. In Boston, you have 1 football team, known as the New England Patriots. So, they are THE team for the whole region of New England. Supporters from hundreds of miles away associate themselves with the Boston teams because their is nothing else.(Except minor league, which can actually be quite good) and college teams (which are over rated cr@p, hyped up like you would not believe) This concentration results in serious following, not only by fans, but tv stations fighting, clambering to get a piece of the action. My guess, part of the deal is to constantly talk them up, else the money goes elsewhere.
That is my simplistic outlook and I have never been able to understand why New York, LA and Chicago do not have 4 basketball teams, 3 baseball teams (it is the national sport after all), etc. etc. Americans are amazed when I explain that you can walk from Fulham to QPR or the dark side. (or catch a tube 3 or 4 stops).
Mr Jarv,
You just insulted either all New York Giants fans or New York Jets fans...There are 2 American football teams here :003:. In fact, there are at least 8 professional sports teams in NY: Apart from the two footbal teams above, you have NY Rangers, NY Islanders (ice hockey), NY Knicks (basketball), New York Yankees and New York Mets (baseball), New York Red Bulls(soccer/football)
Then you have New Jersey Devils (ice hockey) + New Jersey Nets (and soon to become Brooklyn Nets in basketball) all a short train ride away. And I am ignoring some of the smaller sports such as professional lacrosse etc.
As far as walking to the game, in New York you may not be able to walk, but you can take the subway to the "subway series" between Mets and the Yankees on the same day which often happens for double headers in interleague play
There are only so many fans even New York can provide to watch sports. And any game in any sports is a very expensive day out here :046:
OK Mr. Finn, I stand corrected. I knew they had 2 Baseball teams but only ever heard of the NY rangers so considered the others minor league. However, only 1 basketball team.!! ? The knicks. How about if the knicks had 3 local rivals AND promotion relegation? Would it be more exciting than silly play-offs, you bet. I forgot, the money men would never agree to it.
My point was, sports fans in US are very focussed on their teams, almost myopic, and yes the multiple sports and cost make it very, very expensive. Boston fans tend to follow all the seasonal teams. Difficult for outsiders (soccer) to break in but it is getting better. (I think)
it is quite simply down to the media in this country, they build a person up and when they are at a suitable level, the press look for ways to knock them down.
Good news is not good news for the press, they want headlines, how many of our inocent sports personalities go out for a quite drink with couple of mates, next day they are all over the press as though they have caused a riot, and that really isn't the case (well unless you are Joey Barton).
You bring up only having 1 NY basketball team, but in the same breath basketball runs at the same time as ice hockey and partially during baseball and football season and also our sports at university are held in high esteem namely football and basketball and this is before you talk about auto racing, a person may be supporting 3-5 teams at once depending on the time of year.
Good point James.
Jut to play devil's advocate... I remember the chants of Margo, Margo... when then Red sox third baseman Wade Boggs was caught having an affair with the afore mentioned Margo. We build our players up only to tear them down just like the English... Who hasn't called Angelina Jolie a nutcake? Or Donald Trump a fat egotistical tw@t? We all do it, I think it is human nature to tear down the successful to make ourselves feel better about not having what they do... I mean who really believes the old phrase; you can't buy happiness? Bull shlt I know I'd be happier if I could buy a big boat.
Quote from: CorkedHat on June 07, 2010, 02:01:12 PM
PS - anyone who went to the Emmanuel was a bender :clap_hands:
Except Equalizer of course!
Then I should count myself fortunate I failed to get into Emmanuel then, and had to do with Clement Danes instead?
Quote from: alfie on June 07, 2010, 06:41:40 PM
it is quite simply down to the media in this country, they build a person up and when they are at a suitable level, the press look for ways to knock them down.
Good news is not good news for the press, they want headlines, how many of our inocent sports personalities go out for a quite drink with couple of mates, next day they are all over the press as though they have caused a riot, and that really isn't the case (well unless you are Joey Barton).
Alfie,
That's the same both sides of the water, mate. Look at how many NFL/MLB stars are castrated in the press here.
