players with the CVs of Ruiz, Rodallega and Amorbieta yesterday we'd have been delighted I reckon.
Assuming they weren't being played because they and/or we wanted them moved on there clearly is no reason now not to integrate them into the squad.
They need to prove themselves and we're stuck with their cost.
I think they can all play a role this season.... Ruiz is our best player at the club, and with players like Hyndman, David, Woodrow and RM around him he may thrive....
Rodders and Amo are not starters, but would be good players to have on the bench.
I just look at the players we sold and the players we brought in as being far insuperior.... I think other teams in the league (our biggest rivals pre season ) have bought well, and we have fallen way behind....
It would be a miracle if we are a top half side this season....
Depends if we take the line that we dont want them injured for the January transfer window. Wouldnt put it past us.
Quote from: jelmo on September 02, 2014, 08:54:32 AM
Depends if we take the line that we dont want them injured for the January transfer window. Wouldnt put it past us.
Can't rule that out but it would be absurd.
You have to assume that for what ever reason we couldn't get in the players we wanted but that could be a blessing in disguise.
To let them rot until January won't increase their value.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on September 02, 2014, 08:59:46 AM
Quote from: jelmo on September 02, 2014, 08:54:32 AM
Depends if we take the line that we dont want them injured for the January transfer window. Wouldnt put it past us.
Can't rule that out but it would be absurd.
You have to assume that for what ever reason we couldn't get in the players we wanted but that could be a blessing in disguise.
To let them rot until January won't increase their value.
That makes perfect sense to us and everyone on this board. Lets hope Felix thinks the same way
I was one person who called Ruiz a show ground pony when he was on the pitch, he was a joke when it came to tackling, lets get him back on and get him to man up if he can, I am sure that if he can get over his fear of physical contact he would be an outstanding player. I do think the footballing world has turned over sensitive with players these days and i certainly do not believe in dangerous challenges but if you are prepared to buy in continental footballers then they should be aware that the British game is slightly more Physical than many continental leagues. I do think that rodders could have had a longer spell in the team last year, he was just about the only Fulham player to have won a header in the opponents half last season. Amorbieta has an experienced head on him, although he makes mistakes i think the youngsters would look up to him and see his tackling and physical presence, one or two physical players always sets the opponents on edge and this in turn then helps the youngsters play their quick passing football. Finally that Felix Margate bloke needs to come down from his Horse and stop holding playground grudges, he really comes across as a "it's my ball and you can't play" type person. If he continues like this he WILL be sacked, along with Ali Mac, after all this team and our current mess is his baby as well.
Going to be interesting to see if Ruiz gets played & Amo, as they haven't featured at all... I wonder if they'll put 100% in if they do.
Perhaps they are not good enough in training to be selected. They spend more time at MP than playing league games so Magath knows what they are capable of. Bench players at best.
I'd like to see Bryan back, but not Amore.
Amore plays at LB or LCB. Putting him into the team would require Felix to drop Stafy or Burn - both of which are (in my opinion) better players.
Bryan was unsuccessfully played at RM in the prem. I hope Felix gives him a fresh chance at CAM, RF, or even CM. I think he could be like Jordi Gomez was for Wigan in the Championship - a classy playmaker who can chip in a few goals from range/set pieces.
bryan can do well. but I don't rate amo at all.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on September 02, 2014, 08:48:40 AM
players with the CVs of Ruiz, Rodallega and Amorbieta yesterday we'd have been delighted I reckon.
Assuming they weren't being played because they and/or we wanted them moved on there clearly is no reason now not to integrate them into the squad.
They need to prove themselves and we're stuck with their cost.
I remember that we were delighted when they signed - that quickly turned to despair when we realised that they were overhyped and we'd made a mistake.
So maybe we should put them under our pillow and hope the tooth-fairy visits tonight
Ruiz , Rodders and Lovebite have all been given good runs, by more than one Fulham manager and in a number of different roles, without success. To suggest now that our young developing players should have the responsibility of bringing them up to standard is risky and hopeful.
the fact they stayed I think is the reason only smith came in yesterday,and believe its a good thing.
the reasons,i believe there is enough in the squad quality wise along with strength in depth of the squad and ruiz and amore add to it,its what felix decides to do with them ,and if they show they want to give there all to the team and that matters to me as a supporter.on Saturday and the rest of this portion of this season every player has given there all to a man and I would not want the smell from last years squad souring the spirit of the youngsters and the new recruits and if that's going to be the case with ruiz and amore coming in I don't want them nor do I think felix will allow it to happen.
The only plus for lovebite is that he would take chunks out of the opposition players.
I just fear that Magath will continue the line that he does not want to play people that do not want to play for the club. I would be absolutely delighted to see Ruiz in a number 10 position. Hugo would be a good sub to bring on and Amorebieta provides depth at central defender
More a case of not playing players who were expected to leave I would have thought.
They and we are stuck with each other now and it makes sense to make the most of that.
They won't get a move to where they want to be unless they impress and that's the only way we get money for them or any value for their wages.
Quote from: F(f)CUK on September 02, 2014, 11:49:38 AM
I just fear that Magath will continue the line that he does not want to play people that do not want to play for the club. I would be absolutely delighted to see Ruiz in a number 10 position. Hugo would be a good sub to bring on and Amorebieta provides depth at central defender
Should they play if they really don't want to play?
I also agree that they shouldn't automatically be selected ahead of players already in the team-they need to prove their worth.
We tried playing players who were good but did not want to play for FFC last season and look what happened.
If we try that brilliant idea again we will be going down again
So the question to Roberty is - would you play them?
Clearly it depends on their attitude and performances if picked.
They need to impress Magath of course and I'd find it astonishing if he'd closed his mind to the idea of using them.
He may be as stubborn and mad as some think but the logic would be for him to pick what he thinks is his best team.
Quote from: F(f)CUK on September 02, 2014, 12:05:04 PM
So the question to Roberty is - would you play them?
The simple answer is NO - what is the point of having players who do not try.
At the moment everyone seems to be putting in some effort and there appears to be some team spirit.
Progress might be slow but it is at least in a forward gear.
Will we get into 5th some time soon - who know - like everyone I live in hope and see that we at least have a chance
Soon we will be playing 2 games per week for a prolonged period - hopefully FM's squad approach will pay off then.
I always maintain the view with a lot of comments on this board about he should be playing he should not be is that -
1. None of us are at the coal face
2. None of us know what effort players are putting in during training
3. None of us know what is said during team meetings
4. So basically none of us know why he should or should or should not be playing.
We all have our favourites and get peeded off when said favourite is not played
so unless we have the answers to 1. 2. and 3 are we justified in moaning when they are or are not played.
Just a question put out there.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on September 02, 2014, 12:08:32 PM
Clearly it depends on their attitude and performances if picked.
They need to impress Magath of course and I'd find it astonishing if he'd closed his mind to the idea of using them.
He may be as stubborn and mad as some think but the logic would be for him to pick what he thinks is his best team.
To refer to his mind as being CLOSED is over egging what he's said
I don't remember him saying that there was no way back
That Magath freezes people out for some reason, is a scenario presented on here as fact, but for which there is no concrete proof.
He would be mad not pick what he thinks is his best team, because his own job and reputation are on the line if we don't do well.
Quote from: RaySmith on September 02, 2014, 11:56:55 AM
Quote from: F(f)CUK on September 02, 2014, 11:49:38 AM
I just fear that Magath will continue the line that he does not want to play people that do not want to play for the club. I would be absolutely delighted to see Ruiz in a number 10 position. Hugo would be a good sub to bring on and Amorebieta provides depth at central defender
Should they play if they really don't want to play?
I also agree that they shouldn't automatically be selected ahead of players already in the team-they need to prove their worth.
Should the club pay their wages if they don't want to play? Breach of contract? Over to you Mr TG.
Although we don't know for sure we might accept that these three wanted away. We may also accept, and perhaps even agree, that Magath did not consider these players because of this.
The situation has now changed. They are staying for the immediate future and they may well have learned that they are not such desirable commodities as they might have thought.
They haven't necessarily sworn eternal hatred against the club and may now change their minds with regard to their commitment. People do change their minds. Once this has been established they should have some part to play in our glorious ascent of the table/grim struggle against ignominy (delete as preferred).
Now the hurly-burly's done, what are we left with?
We have a squad of 30 of which a rather hair-raising 13 are 21 or under. A number of the youngsters are among the most highly regarded prospects of their respective countries. Additionally 8 of the actual u21 squad have first team experience (including Ryan Williams who is, rather oddly, not included in the first team squad).
We have 13 full international players.
I don't get overwrought about managers, they all (except Sir Alex) fail in the end, and I rather like the attitude and eccentricity of the present incumbent, but, really, anyone who can't get a decent tune out of that lot should be looking for employment in another sphere.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on September 02, 2014, 08:48:40 AM
players with the CVs of Ruiz, Rodallega and Amorbieta yesterday we'd have been delighted I reckon.
Assuming they weren't being played because they and/or we wanted them moved on there clearly is no reason now not to integrate them into the squad.
They need to prove themselves and we're stuck with their cost.
The trouble is we have seen them in a Fulham shirt and none have been able to make a consistently useful contribution and to hold down a regular place even in a weak side.
Maybe they can be reintegrated but I wouldn't be too sure under Magath.
Even then I wouldn't be expecting them to replace David, Woodrow or Burn, for example, based purely on merit so they may very well remain expensive squad players.
Quote from: hovewhite on September 02, 2014, 11:35:20 AM
the fact they stayed I think is the reason only smith came in yesterday,and believe its a good thing.
the reasons,i believe there is enough in the squad quality wise along with strength in depth of the squad and ruiz and amore add to it,its what felix decides to do with them ,and if they show they want to give there all to the team and that matters to me as a supporter.on Saturday and the rest of this portion of this season every player has given there all to a man and I would not want the smell from last years squad souring the spirit of the youngsters and the new recruits and if that's going to be the case with ruiz and amore coming in I don't want them nor do I think felix will allow it to happen.
Only Smith came in yesterday because we already have a very large squad (34 now with 4 out on loan) so that we probably have a policy now of "one out before one in", the "money is no object" policy only applies to one purchase per window, and because we are now losing out to clubs like Huddersfield for our targets.
We only attracted one player, Eisfeld, from a `bigger' club and he was very much on their fringe. We attracted two players from potentially a bigger club in Leeds but their Chairman is more bonkers than anyone at our club and they don't have a manager having sacked their new manager after six games. Still they have more points than us, I suppose.
I agree in some ways we should be glad that we didn't get any more in but for me that is because none of the targets we were most closely linked with were anywhere near the quality we should be looking for.
Quote from: alfie on September 02, 2014, 12:14:43 PM
I always maintain the view with a lot of comments on this board about he should be playing he should not be is that -
1. None of us are at the coal face
2. None of us know what effort players are putting in during training
3. None of us know what is said during team meetings
4. So basically none of us know why he should or should or should not be playing.
We all have our favourites and get peeded off when said favourite is not played
so unless we have the answers to 1. 2. and 3 are we justified in moaning when they are or are not played.
Just a question put out there.
Yes, we are limited to what we see on the pitch but what is the point of supporting a club or even of watching a match if you don't have the occasional opinion?
What is the point of posting or reading threads or having a messageboard if there aren't opinions?
does anyone know if these guys are still training with the first team? if not at least the international break can give them a chance to catch up or get some match fitness with their countries
I just hope that all three knuckle down with a view of trying to please FM and be picked, as it is neither the interests of Fulham or the players for the players involved to be completely out of the reckoning. Not certain where Ruiz fits into the team, but would like to see him somewhere.
Sean Dyke
chuckle
Quote from: alfie on September 02, 2014, 12:14:43 PM
I always maintain the view with a lot of comments on this board about he should be playing he should not be is that -
1. None of us are at the coal face
2. None of us know what effort players are putting in during training
3. None of us know what is said during team meetings
4. So basically none of us know why he should or should or should not be playing.
We all have our favourites and get peeded off when said favourite is not played
so unless we have the answers to 1. 2. and 3 are we justified in moaning when they are or are not played.
Just a question put out there.
0001.jpeg
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on September 02, 2014, 01:41:14 PM
Quote from: alfie on September 02, 2014, 12:14:43 PM
I always maintain the view with a lot of comments on this board about he should be playing he should not be is that -
1. None of us are at the coal face
2. None of us know what effort players are putting in during training
3. None of us know what is said during team meetings
4. So basically none of us know why he should or should or should not be playing.
We all have our favourites and get peeded off when said favourite is not played
so unless we have the answers to 1. 2. and 3 are we justified in moaning when they are or are not played.
Just a question put out there.
Yes, we are limited to what we see on the pitch but what is the point of supporting a club or even of watching a match if you don't have the occasional opinion?
What is the point of posting or reading threads or having a messageboard if there aren't opinions?
Yes i agree with you, but when someone comes on here going on about Magath freezes out players or has no man management skills (for example) without any proof or actual knowledge, implying it as fact rather than expressing an opinion is the bit i find annoying.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on September 02, 2014, 01:52:52 PM
This is where real Man Management comes into play. I agree the players mentioned have to earn their places on merit, and they are under contract, so with potentially 34 players to chose from including 4 Goalkeepers, and injuries permitting, the Manager now has to earn his wages by getting the best out of any player he wishes to play within the framework of the team. Motivation and Social skills come into play now, as far as the Manager is concerned, to have a happy and contented and balanced team picked on merit, not to ignore or freeze out a player just because he doesn't like his face. The squad we have now, player for player on paper with the right Manager with the necessary skills should be able to enable Fulham FC to climb the table reasonable quickly, a Sean Dyke would be a perfect example of a Manager that would get the best out of the players in this Division, and there are plenty of others who would fall into that category. So the coming weeks should show which way we are going, we are now playing catch up, but the good news is we have plenty of time to recover, and we can rise up the ladder, but there is not a lot of room for any more errors, so target the sixth place now, and in a couple of months, we will either be pulling out hair out and heading for Beachy Head or rubbing our hands with satisfaction. The Manager holds the reigns, let's hope he does not fall off his horse, otherwise we go back down the snake to square one.
I never liked Mitros face.
He had dodgy hair, a pointed nose, a little goatie and over-perfectly manicured side burns.
I never saw a picture of him chin up to see if his nose hairs were trimmed
You don't have to go down a coal mine to know that it's black inside.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on September 02, 2014, 04:15:26 PM
You don't have to go down a coal mine to know that it's black inside.
Many hands make llight work
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on September 02, 2014, 04:15:26 PM
You don't have to go down a coal mine to know that it's black inside.
I am assuming this is in response to my comment, if so I find it a bit odd if you continuously judge someone on what you think that person is like rather than actually knowing.
Still that is just my opinion and not necessarily factual.
Quote from: alfie on September 02, 2014, 06:25:58 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on September 02, 2014, 04:15:26 PM
You don't have to go down a coal mine to know that it's black inside.
I am assuming this is in response to my comment, if so I find it a bit odd if you continuously judge someone on what you think that person is like rather than actually knowing.
Still that is just my opinion and not necessarily factual.
Is that LIGHT I see at the end of that tunnel ????? lol
For a minute, when I heard Ruiz hadn't left I felt pleased.
I thought, "Wow, maybe he wants to be here then? One of the stand out players in the World Cup! He could crucify the Championship!"
Then the more I think of it - he will still leave, he's going to be as fragile and committed as he was last season and actually he was absolutely pathetic in the first part of last season.....
So much so that I don't think he deserves to play for us again!
He jumped ship because he couldn't give a rats 4rse about us!
People have short memories!
Yes I know, the whole team/squad/club was awful last year but certain players brought embarrassment on the club and he was one of them!
Quote from: alfie on September 02, 2014, 03:36:57 PM
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on September 02, 2014, 01:41:14 PM
Quote from: alfie on September 02, 2014, 12:14:43 PM
I always maintain the view with a lot of comments on this board about he should be playing he should not be is that -
1. None of us are at the coal face
2. None of us know what effort players are putting in during training
3. None of us know what is said during team meetings
4. So basically none of us know why he should or should or should not be playing.
We all have our favourites and get peeded off when said favourite is not played
so unless we have the answers to 1. 2. and 3 are we justified in moaning when they are or are not played.
Just a question put out there.
Yes, we are limited to what we see on the pitch but what is the point of supporting a club or even of watching a match if you don't have the occasional opinion?
What is the point of posting or reading threads or having a messageboard if there aren't opinions?
Yes i agree with you, but when someone comes on here going on about Magath freezes out players or has no man management skills (for example) without any proof or actual knowledge, implying it as fact rather than expressing an opinion is the bit i find annoying.
Except Magath has a well known reputation for doing exactly that, supported by numerous testimonies from players he's worked with over the years. There's no smoke without fire.
I measure a man how he gets up off the canvas, not how he goes down. Magath hit the canvas hard when he failed to prevent Fulham getting relegated. Since then he is still groggy and on his knees, he hasn't recovered so far and is disorientated, and the proof of this lies in the League Table, so he has failed to recover and get up off the canvas, of course that is only my opinion.
But last Saturday, he shook his head and you could see there was still fight in him when you looked at his eyes. The bell rang and saved him, as he needed the two week rest. Seconds out.......
Quote from: Pluto on September 02, 2014, 07:25:07 PM
Quote from: alfie on September 02, 2014, 03:36:57 PM
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on September 02, 2014, 01:41:14 PM
Quote from: alfie on September 02, 2014, 12:14:43 PM
I always maintain the view with a lot of comments on this board about he should be playing he should not be is that -
1. None of us are at the coal face
2. None of us know what effort players are putting in during training
3. None of us know what is said during team meetings
4. So basically none of us know why he should or should or should not be playing.
We all have our favourites and get peeded off when said favourite is not played
so unless we have the answers to 1. 2. and 3 are we justified in moaning when they are or are not played.
Just a question put out there.
Yes, we are limited to what we see on the pitch but what is the point of supporting a club or even of watching a match if you don't have the occasional opinion?
What is the point of posting or reading threads or having a messageboard if there aren't opinions?
Yes i agree with you, but when someone comes on here going on about Magath freezes out players or has no man management skills (for example) without any proof or actual knowledge, implying it as fact rather than expressing an opinion is the bit i find annoying.
Except Magath has a well known reputation for doing exactly that, supported by numerous testimonies from players he's worked with over the years. There's no smoke without fire.
Ok Mr Pluto a handful of players have expressed they did not like his training methods, great, What about the hundreds of others he has coached/managed over his career, I think the comments of an odd few players is over the top, even Holtby when asked said his training was very hard but at his young age it was good for him.
Loads of people have jumped on the words the JAR said, lets face it virtually everyone on here agreed that he could not run up and down the pitch anymore and to get rid, so there was no way he was going to be able to cope with some hard training.
I don't know whether Magath with do the job I have seen some signs that shows he may well be good for us, time will tell.
I had an argument/discussion with my boss today over the way something was done, went on for a while but I don't go running to the papers about it.
And maybe the hard training will get results.
I don't think hard training ever killed a fit young athlete -there have been questions about players being tired for games -but surely Felix, a top ex-player himself-and his staff, are aware of this-and want the players to perform at their best in games - their jobs and reputations are on the line.
Obviously, you don't want players to be too tired at games , but on the other hand you want them fit as possible - if they are fitter than their opponents they will have an edge, and hopefully be less likely to concede games in the final 15 mins.
Some have said that modern players with their heart rate monitors and physios,etc, are too cossetted.
So some players don't like hard training, and training more than once a day, especially players who have left the club -I wonder why that is.....?????? fp.gif
I think our young players may especially benefit from Felix's regime - they can take the hard training and see that it helps them in games, plus they are, I would hope, eager to succeed and progress with Fulham, and don't have the jaded cynicism an older player might have.
