Sorry this is so long but I have been thinking about this for a while now and thought I would bounce the idea of FOF members.
So I have been coaching youth football in States for about 13 years now. During those years I have seen more and more English Clubs and coaches becoming a big part of the scene over here. Seems if you have a British or foreign ascent Americans assume you know all there is about football. Any way while there is nothing new in US youth clubs partnering with foreign clubs it does seem to becoming a big business.
One of the biggest non-club based operations I have seen in the south of the US is Premier UK Coaching. This is a company that will provide your youth club with whatever your needs are from UK youth coaches to directors for your club. I have seen youth clubs that utilize them to run their entire club and I have seen where clubs use only one or two of the UK coaches to fill in gaps in their coaching staff. Premier UK Coaching seems to have ties to West Ham United. You can see their logos on a lot of the youth club kits.
The biggest UK presence I have seen so far on the East Coast is Chelski and their association with several big and small youth clubs in the US. In the 13 years that I have been involved in youth sports there hasn't been a youth tournament that I haven't attended without seeing a team wearing the Chelski youth development logo on front of their shirt. They seem to be everywhere.
I have also seen some other UK clubs that have ties with US youth clubs but none as big as Chelski. QPR has an ex-player in Florida that has its own youth academy club. I've seen a club tied to Reading, again through some ex-player of theirs. I am told that City will start a US academy team through their New York MLS club.
My point is this - IMHO it would be awesome, and beneficial, if Fulham started partnering with some US youth clubs. I'll give you a couple of reasons why I think this would be great for the club.
1. Branding – you should see how many Americans, who know very little about football, start following the club just because their kids are associated with that particular English Club.
2. Money for the club – Those same idoits who have learned who Chelski are the same ones buying Chelski gear, car magnets and other paraphernalia. They buy the stuff only because they see their kids in their Chelski, West Ham, QPR or whatever English club sponsored kits. I cannot tell you how many idiots I have seen wearing Chelski shirts who have come up and asked me what FFC is. Along with the purchasing of club gear are the fees the US youth clubs pay to belong to and have access to English club youth programs. This revenue may not make or break the clubs bottom line but it is still something.
3. Youth Scouting – I am told that Chelski actually have a US based scout that attends a lot of youth soccer via sponsored US youth clubs. Nothing better than finding them youth and developing them young
4. Tourism – some may not like this but all those youth soccer teams sponsored by UK Clubs visit those UK Club stadiums and training grounds. They spend their money on going to England, seeing games at the stadiums and training with club staff. Again more money for the club. I also guarantee you they visit the club stores and spend money there.
So, there is my idea in a nut shell. Fulham to become even more international by starting partnerships with youth clubs not just in the US but around the world.
if they get Americans, then I'd hope Canada would get in on it too. even though we are surrounded by snow, we have very good young players coming through, an I think the way to improve would be to go to English clubs, we're at a standstill every 6 months due to the weather, and we could develop better if we get sent abroad, there are some talented kids in Canada, and the country is actually very crazy about hockey, our most played summer sport if out west is correct
Quote from: crazycottager on September 10, 2014, 02:19:11 AM
if they get Americans, then I'd hope Canada would get in on it too. even though we are surrounded by snow, we have very good young players coming through, an I think the way to improve would be to go to English clubs, we're at a standstill every 6 months due to the weather, and we could develop better if we get sent abroad, there are some talented kids in Canada, and the country is actually very crazy about hockey, our most played summer sport if out west is correct
Absolutely! Spent many a passing youth day in Calgary and Banff. Couldn't think of a better country to include.
My sense is that some of the best US youth players are being developed in Germany. Julian Green and Fabian Johnson come to mind. It's a sad state of affairs that players like that can't be developed in the states, but the truth is that the structure is not in place. The high school/college system will never support enough player development, and the club system is flawed with too much emphasis on winning at a young age. Also, an underrated factor is that the parents don't know enough of football to teach their children. That is beginning to change, though.
Canada should do like Norway and create a lot of indoor facilities.
Quote from: love4ffc on September 10, 2014, 02:14:09 AM
So I have been coaching youth football in States for about 13 years now. During those years I have seen more and more English Clubs and coaches becoming a big part of the scene over here. Seems if you have a British or foreign ascent Americans assume you know all there is about football. Any way while there is nothing new in US youth clubs partnering with foreign clubs it does seem to becoming a big business.
I coached for five years and beat the pants off of some of those British coaches - even when they had better players. But as an American coach, you will never get the respect. I developed players extremely well, but as soon as they got good the parents would switch them over to a different club with a European coach because they think their kid is a star. That type of kid often went backwards.
I don't even waste my time with those people anymore. Better to focus on the EPL and be done with it. Just root for Fulham and screw American soccer. Better to be a real football fan and leave those people alone to rot in the little hell they create for themselves and their children.
Jags24, I think you miss the whole point of my post. I see this as a great business opportunity for FFC and not as a burden to the club. Also while I jest about the English and foreign ascent I actually know a lot of great English coaches that I have worked with. Sadly they are all Sunderland, Newcastle & Liverfool fans. :doh:
As an American coach I think I do get respect. Not because I am some awesome all knowing coach but rather because I make the game fun for those I coach. I am proud to say I have an extremely high retention rate for players I coach. Those that do leave me have always talked to me first about why they are leaving. Most that leave are moving on to better teams and coaches because I suggest it and think it would benefit them as a developing player, and yes a lot of those coaches that the players are moving onto are English or foreign coaches who I call friends.
Back to my original idea. To me what could be more glorious then seeing a bunch of American, Canadian or other countries running around in FFC kits playing and learning football.
I also stand by my thought that this would be a great opportunity for the club.
Quote from: love4ffc on September 10, 2014, 02:14:09 AM
Sorry this is so long but I have been thinking about this for a while now and thought I would bounce the idea of FOF members.
So I have been coaching youth football in States for about 13 years now. During those years I have seen more and more English Clubs and coaches becoming a big part of the scene over here. Seems if you have a British or foreign ascent Americans assume you know all there is about football. Any way while there is nothing new in US youth clubs partnering with foreign clubs it does seem to becoming a big business.
One of the biggest non-club based operations I have seen in the south of the US is Premier UK Coaching. This is a company that will provide your youth club with whatever your needs are from UK youth coaches to directors for your club. I have seen youth clubs that utilize them to run their entire club and I have seen where clubs use only one or two of the UK coaches to fill in gaps in their coaching staff. Premier UK Coaching seems to have ties to West Ham United. You can see their logos on a lot of the youth club kits.
The biggest UK presence I have seen so far on the East Coast is Chelski and their association with several big and small youth clubs in the US. In the 13 years that I have been involved in youth sports there hasn't been a youth tournament that I haven't attended without seeing a team wearing the Chelski youth development logo on front of their shirt. They seem to be everywhere.
I have also seen some other UK clubs that have ties with US youth clubs but none as big as Chelski. QPR has an ex-player in Florida that has its own youth academy club. I've seen a club tied to Reading, again through some ex-player of theirs. I am told that City will start a US academy team through their New York MLS club.
My point is this - IMHO it would be awesome, and beneficial, if Fulham started partnering with some US youth clubs. I'll give you a couple of reasons why I think this would be great for the club.
1. Branding – you should see how many Americans, who know very little about football, start following the club just because their kids are associated with that particular English Club.
2. Money for the club – Those same idoits who have learned who Chelski are the same ones buying Chelski gear, car magnets and other paraphernalia. They buy the stuff only because they see their kids in their Chelski, West Ham, QPR or whatever English club sponsored kits. I cannot tell you how many idiots I have seen wearing Chelski shirts who have come up and asked me what FFC is. Along with the purchasing of club gear are the fees the US youth clubs pay to belong to and have access to English club youth programs. This revenue may not make or break the clubs bottom line but it is still something.
3. Youth Scouting – I am told that Chelski actually have a US based scout that attends a lot of youth soccer via sponsored US youth clubs. Nothing better than finding them youth and developing them young
4. Tourism – some may not like this but all those youth soccer teams sponsored by UK Clubs visit those UK Club stadiums and training grounds. They spend their money on going to England, seeing games at the stadiums and training with club staff. Again more money for the club. I also guarantee you they visit the club stores and spend money there.
So, there is my idea in a nut shell. Fulham to become even more international by starting partnerships with youth clubs not just in the US but around the world.
I agree with this and think that it would be a great step in the right, long term, direction for Fulham. I humbly suggest we kick this effort off by terminating the practice of calling our potential customers/youth players "idiots" though. I'm not a marketing guy but, this seems counterproductive.
[quote author=ToodlesMcToot link=topic=42381.
I agree with this and think that it would be a great step in the right, long term, direction for Fulham. I humbly suggest we kick this effort off by terminating the practice of calling our potential customers/youth players "idiots" though. I'm not a marketing guy but, this seems counterproductive.
[/quote]
:plus one:
To clarify. I am not calling our future potential customers "idiots". I was simply stating a fact that one would think an adult wearing a Chelski shirt (or any other club shirt), with a player's name on the back that they have no idea is and only had it added because their kid said it would be cool, would in fact know something about the club. I would have also assumed that they would have caught a game or two and would have become familiar with other teams in the Prem. Hence knowing what FFC stood for.
I would never call future potenetial customers or youth players "idiots".
Where I live, Richmond in Central Virginia would be an ideal place.
There's a huge catchment area and all of the schools have football/soccer goal posts and
not NFL style H's.
It's certainly something I'd like to get involved with
Quote from: love4ffc on September 10, 2014, 02:19:34 PM
Jags24, I think you miss the whole point of my post. I see this as a great business opportunity for FFC and not as a burden to the club. Also while I jest about the English and foreign ascent I actually know a lot of great English coaches that I have worked with. Sadly they are all Sunderland, Newcastle & Liverfool fans. :doh:
As an American coach I think I do get respect. Not because I am some awesome all knowing coach but rather because I make the game fun for those I coach. I am proud to say I have an extremely high retention rate for players I coach. Those that do leave me have always talked to me first about why they are leaving. Most that leave are moving on to better teams and coaches because I suggest it and think it would benefit them as a developing player, and yes a lot of those coaches that the players are moving onto are English or foreign coaches who I call friends.
Back to my original idea. To me what could be more glorious then seeing a bunch of American, Canadian or other countries running around in FFC kits playing and learning football.
I also stand by my thought that this would be a great opportunity for the club.
Well, maybe you are a better coach than I was. Or simply better at the people side of coaching. I had a lot of respect from the foreign coaches, many of whom were my friends, but a lot of problems with the parents. There were some great parents, though.
I don't want to see Fulham start partnering with US clubs, I would like to see Americans build a healthy structure themselves and create great players. Unfortunately, there are some systemic problems that I've highlighted in my previous post.
Bearing in mind the Hispanic population, I'm surprised that the top Spanish clubs aren't all over the US, or perhaps they are and I'm 'blinkered'
Quote from: jags24 on September 10, 2014, 03:11:01 AM
My sense is that some of the best US youth players are being developed in Germany. Julian Green and Fabian Johnson come to mind. It's a sad state of affairs that players like that can't be developed in the states, but the truth is that the structure is not in place. The high school/college system will never support enough player development, and the club system is flawed with too much emphasis on winning at a young age. Also, an underrated factor is that the parents don't know enough of football to teach their children. That is beginning to change, though.
Canada should do like Norway and create a lot of indoor facilities.
Green & Johnson both grew up in Germany. They could just as easily play for Germany and I'm sure they are considered German by many. They hardly grew up as "American" youth prospects.
You're right Roger, one would think that the Spanish Clubs would have some connections here in the US but I've not heard of one. I do know of an ex-player from Mexico in NC who has started his own little Club who uses his connections to his old club.
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Jags24 - I think a healthy youth program structure is already in place for the US. I also think it's improving all the time. For example almost all MLS teams now a days have their own youth academy programs in place. I have a good friend who works for the Philadelphia Union Academy. They have a fantastic program. I still however would love to see FFC partner up with US Clubs. Like Roger I'd also love to help out with a program like that.
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Quote from: love4ffc on September 10, 2014, 07:58:46 PM
Jags24 - I think a healthy youth program structure is already in place for the US. I also think it's improving all the time. For example almost all MLS teams now a days have their own youth academy programs in place. I have a good friend who works for the Philadelphia Union Academy. They have a fantastic program. I still however would love to see FFC partner up with US Clubs. Like Roger I'd also love to help out with a program like that.
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I think the structure is terrible here and that's why you don't find many great players coming out of the U.S. As pointed out, our best prospects are Americans who are developed overseas. Plenty of hispanic clubs have set up shop in the U.S. in one way or another. Yes, we have the premier clubs, but the truth is that they don't practice enough. No way that 2 practices a week will compete with development abroad. The ODP program is a useless waste of time.
Then you have high school soccer with its old-fashioned coaches and teachers running around there, its limited practice time, and lack of quality teams. And the NCAA regulated college divisions where the players can only train a limited amount of time over the summer. Also, a lot of men's soccer NCAA teams don't have the scholarships that women's soccer does because the scholarships are usurped by American football.
The results are clear - if you are American and want to be a great player, then you had better move abroad.
I think there is talent to be found all over the world. The problem with young over seas players is home sickness. For most youngsters it is a big wrench taking yourself off to a different country with different cultures for at least 10 months of the year
Jags24 - I would agree that the best youth development academies exist outside the US still. However I do think that the US youth structure has changed drastically for the better over the last 10 years. Even more so in the last 5 years or so. I would give you this as food for thought.
Significant changes I have seen:
- 1. Most large youth organizations have changed from the old 1,2,3,4.... Divisions to now include what is called Regional Premier Leagues (RPL). These RPL's usually include several State youth organizations and have become very competitive
- 2. ODP is a dying state run program that individual state youth programs don't won't to see die as it is/was a money making machine for them. Kids who are serious about developing their skills and their game now join the US Development Academy (USSDA). The USSDA consist of 3 conferences with 6 divisions. Individual academies are made up of large youth clubs, small youth clubs that combine to share one program, MLS Academies and even USL Pro Academies. This program don't start until U13 and are by invitation only. It is also THE program that Jurgen is pushing now for US youth development.
- 3. Out of the USSDA Academies kids are being selected to make US Developmental teams based on two year combined age groups (i.e. U13/U14). These teams then go and develop with US Soccer team staff coaches. Those teams also have played other international youth teams both here and outside the US. I know of teams that have traveled to Canada, South & Central America to develop and play games.
- 4. Of the club teams that I have talked to that have partnered with an English Club, all of said that they take yearly trips with kids to their sponsored English Clubs. These trips are specifically designed for both US coaches and players to be introduced to FA and Club specific development. Allowing US coaches and players to bring back some European style Football.
So while you say the US youth structure is terrible, I would say it is pretty good. In fact I would say it is on the right path to becoming great and capable of producing some fantastic Footballers. As anything though it is all how you look at and present it.
Cheers
Remember that in the states the big 4 sports primarily rule. As a parent, my child has the option of many sports to choose from that are very well organized.
American Football, Baseball, Basketball, Hockey, Lacrosse, Gymnastics, just to name a few. Soccer is also very prevalent but as stated in this thread, the infrastructure and system of development is lagging far behind.
Quote from: WhiteJag on September 11, 2014, 04:31:31 PM
Remember that in the states the big 4 sports primarily rule. As a parent, my child has the option of many sports to choose from that are very well organized.
American Football, Baseball, Basketball, Hockey, Lacrosse, Gymnastics, just to name a few. Soccer is also very prevalent but as stated in this thread, the infrastructure and system of development is lagging far behind.
Again, I would completely disagree. More and more kids are playing the game now in the US then ever. Below is part of a July of 2013 EPSN article.
Please note that hockey & gymnastics are not even mentioned.
(http://a.espncdn.com/magazine/ipad/issues/YouthWebGraphic6.jpg)
As a youth coach in the States for some time now I could write for days on this topic, but I'd like to share a few things I think are holding US youth player development back:
- Youth clubs and leagues are far too unstable and disjointed - Leagues and clubs in the US spring up and disappear so fast it makes your head spin, which makes progression for players more difficult and confuses parents. Also, since most youth clubs don't have a senior team, kids don't have players to look up to or an obvious end goal for their development.
- High school soccer drastically slows player development - I can't tell you how many players have been developed at my club, only to see them thrown in to high school soccer too young (14/15 year olds). The high school game is physical but unskilled in most places. Kids get thrown into this environment were speed, power, and winning come before technical development.
- Kids in the US have too many sports prying them away from soccer - When you coach kids 9-14, it's a constant struggle to keep them focused on soccer. A lot of this has to do with parents who know other sports better and push their kids toward those sports.
Quote from: MJs Statue on September 11, 2014, 09:16:42 PM
As a youth coach in the States for some time now I could write for days on this topic, but I'd like to share a few things I think are holding US youth player development back:
- Youth clubs and leagues are far too unstable and disjointed - Leagues and clubs in the US spring up and disappear so fast it makes your head spin, which makes progression for players more difficult and confuses parents. Also, since most youth clubs don't have a senior team, kids don't have players to look up to or an obvious end goal for their development.
- High school soccer drastically slows player development - I can't tell you how many players have been developed at my club, only to see them thrown in to high school soccer too young (14/15 year olds). The high school game is physical but unskilled in most places. Kids get thrown into this environment were speed, power, and winning come before technical development.
- Kids in the US have too many sports prying them away from soccer - When you coach kids 9-14, it's a constant struggle to keep them focused on soccer. A lot of this has to do with parents who know other sports better and push their kids toward those sports.
I agree on the last part of too many sports prying kids away from soccer. As for clubs raising and falling apart I've not seen that personally. I've seen clubs merge with another to become stronger and bigger, but not just fall apart. I have actually seen an increase in small rural communities starting their own new clubs. As for not having senior teams to look up to. I'm going to guess that is an issue for your particular location.
I am currently not coaching for a club due to relocating (again) with the family. However I do still fill in for a local club and coach for a middle school. I have coached for 5 clubs in three different states on the east coast since I started coaching. I have helped coach a JV team and have coached three middle school teams. Three times now I have changed clubs due to relocating with the family. Twice I changed clubs for more money and responsibilities. In two of the cities I coached not only did the clubs I was working for have senior teams, that went all the way through U20, but they have working relationships with major ACC college teams. They have lots of opportunities and events for the kids to play with the older kids, college kids and coaches.
The middle school I deal with is a private school that has a great structure in place for their soccer teams. Both the boys and the girls have a separate director that works with the individual middle school, JV & varsity teams. Every other week the directors get all three levels of players together and we play 6v6 mixed teams of all ages world cup. The kids love it.
I am sorry it seems so many of you have bad infrastructure and/or clubs where you live. I personally have not seen nor experienced any of what you are talking about. Again from my perspective, and this includes both playing and coaching combined now for over 40 years, soccer in the US is stronger then ever.
Quote from: love4ffc on September 11, 2014, 09:53:08 PM
I agree on the last part of too many sports prying kids away from soccer. As for clubs raising and falling apart I've not seen that personally. I've seen clubs merge with another to become stronger and bigger, but not just fall apart. I have actually seen an increase in small rural communities starting their own new clubs. As for not having senior teams to look up to. I'm going to guess that is an issue for your particular location.
I am currently not coaching for a club due to relocating (again) with the family. However I do still fill in for a local club and coach for a middle school. I have coached for 5 clubs in three different states on the east coast since I started coaching. I have helped coach a JV team and have coached three middle school teams. Three times now I have changed clubs due to relocating with the family. Twice I changed clubs for more money and responsibilities. In two of the cities I coached not only did the clubs I was working for have senior teams, that went all the way through U20, but they have working relationships with major ACC college teams. They have lots of opportunities and events for the kids to play with the older kids, college kids and coaches.
The middle school I deal with is a private school that has a great structure in place for their soccer teams. Both the boys and the girls have a separate director that works with the individual middle school, JV & varsity teams. Every other week the directors get all three levels of players together and we play 6v6 mixed teams of all ages world cup. The kids love it.
I am sorry it seems so many of you have bad infrastructure and/or clubs where you live. I personally have not seen nor experienced any of what you are talking about. Again from my perspective, and this includes both playing and coaching combined now for over 40 years, soccer in the US is stronger then ever.
Interesting stuff. I've coached mostly in a quasi-rural part of Illinois, were club teams general don't exceed U18. There are some U23 sides for college players during the summer, but no senior teams in the European sense.
Another thing I forgot to mention, and this is really the thing that holds soccer back the most, is the cost to players and their families (Jurgen Klinsmann loves this topic). Much of US youth soccer uses a "pay-to-play" model. Meaning your kid doesn't get on the team unless you pay club dues. It's an unfortunate setup, but most of these clubs simply have no other way of funding coaches, travel, equipment, etc. This means cost can be a barrier for kids from lower economic backgrounds. As a result, soccer players in the US tend to come from more affluent backgrounds compared to Europe and South America.
Jurgen's theory is that this system eliminates the hungriest players from the sport at a young age, players that have a passion for success in the sport so they can improve their economic situation. The opportunity to improve your life through sports just isn't as accessible in soccer as it is in American football or basketball.
MJs Statue - I would completely agree that soccer in the States is an affluent sport. The last two clubs that I have worked with have actively tried to change that. Both do a couple of different kinds of fundraisers to give low income kids scholarships. Both clubs hold golf tournamants and 5K races were the proceeds went to the scholarship funds. On top of that the one club would hold a 3v3 tournament in the early part of summer to raise even more money for the scholarship funds. I know that in both clubs that about 80-90% of the funds were used every year. Possible a sign of the times for our economy.
The last club I worked with took it one step further in that they hired a full time employee who did nothing but Spanish and low income relationships. The employee, who was fluent in Spanish, would write for grants that allowed the club to go into low income neighborhoods to start "Street Soccer USA" and "Soccer Across America" programs.
As you mentioned one of the things that Jurgen wants to change is the pricing to play soccer in the US. With that in mind one of the things that Jurgen and the US Soccer Development Academy have done is to make their programs free or almost free to it's players and families. Unlike normal programs, clubs involved in the USSDA program have to go out and find sponsors so that their fees are preferable nothing or next to nothing. Again participation at this level of soccer is by invitation only for players who are deemed to be the best in their age groups.
With programs like I have mentioned above I am hoping that dynamics of soccer participants in general for the US will broaden and become more diversified. Or at least I can dream.
Cheers
