As I hear that Jimmy Hills health is fading is it not about time they gave this man a knighthood
Not perhaps the most gifted of players , but has probably done more to change the face of football than many others
I think its about time that a petition was taken up and sent to parliament especially when there are many others who have done a lot less that get these awards
Oh if I signed something like that my husband would never speak to me again
I was there when Jimmy was getting a fearful barracking in an Easter promotion game with Sheff Weds. He then blasted home a hat trick and we won 6-2. Then there was the 5 he scored in an away game at Doncaster in 1958. His idea of three points for a win was laughed at at first but now it is used around the world. And he took Coventry City out of the wilderness as their manager. And he was behind the scraping of the minimum wage for footballers.
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For services promoting rebel tours to apartheid South Africa perhaps.
do you mean maximum wage? getting rid of a minimum seems quite sad as they could pay them far less
He has his critics but he ended the draconian contracts players played under when head of the player's union. Okay it has gone to far the other way now but too many players back then earnt nothing for their talents.
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Quote from: TonyGilroy on November 12, 2014, 08:32:04 AM
For services promoting rebel tours to apartheid South Africa perhaps.
As old school you should be aware of the great services he did for our football club, behind the scenes and not looking for the limelight and praise, don't know what you are talking about re S Africa, but another time different attitudes?
I don't think you get a knighthood for services to Fulham.
Without Jimmy Hill there would have been no Fulham Fc Remember it was him who got AF involved,
Services to football, off the pitch, I think Jimmy would be the first to admit he didn't always do a lot on it But the fans adored him for his fun attitude and effort every game he played
I notice we criticise Jimmy for his tour of Africa but at that time a good many players went out to play in africa including our own Johnny Haynes and Tony Maceado
and it is not for services to Fulham but football in general
footballer, manager , chairman, , referee, football pundit ,
it was Jim behind the 3 points for a win
Jim who broke the minimum wage ( may have gone to far now )
one of the first advocate of coaching badges for coaching young footballers
changed the way football on the box was portrayed
although you may not agree with everything he has done there are a lot of people who have done far less and a lot worse who have got knighthoods
Quote from: Woodlawn on November 12, 2014, 10:19:52 AM
Without Jimmy Hill there would have been no Fulham Fc Remember it was him who got AF involved,
Services to football, off the pitch, I think Jimmy would be the first to admit he didn't always do a lot on it But the fans adored him for his fun attitude and effort every game he played
I thought it was Bill Muddyman who got MAF involved and Hill walked off in a strop and it took 10 years to get him to even watch a match at Craven Cottage.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on November 12, 2014, 10:29:10 AM
Quote from: Woodlawn on November 12, 2014, 10:19:52 AM
Without Jimmy Hill there would have been no Fulham Fc Remember it was him who got AF involved,
Services to football, off the pitch, I think Jimmy would be the first to admit he didn't always do a lot on it But the fans adored him for his fun attitude and effort every game he played
I thought it was Bill Muddyman who got MAF involved and Hill walked off in a strop and it took 10 years to get him to even watch a match at Craven Cottage.
You are right about the Muddymans getting MAF involved, Hill resigned when this happened as he feared Mo did not have the club's best interests at heart and was only interested in re-developing the ground as luxury housing.
Funnily enough, a lot of supporters had similar fears, especially in the early days.
When Hill saw what Mo was doing to get us to the Premiership he was man enough to admit he had been wrong and did return to the ground.
He is far from perfect, but he would be the first to admit it, and I agree with the OP, a knighthood would be deserved.
Hasn't hodgeson also said his biggest regret was playing in South Africa during those times? Don't know enough about jimmy to argue for or against but he definitely wasn't alone. Doesn't justify it just thought I'd mention it.
I agree with colcliff and Rupert, like any human being he's made mistakes, but he's undeniably a Fulham man and has had a massive influence on the modern game locally, nationwide and around the world. And I forgave him for everything he might have got wrong when he ran along the touchline geeing up the Hammersmith before we beat Chelsea. One of a kind.
Given all he has done for this club I would like to see a statue erected next to the Maestro outside the ground
The Muddymans rescued the club and, very reasonably, insisted on JH being on board because they were well aware that they had no expertise in running a football club.
Times were awful for us and the job must have been tough but even then I was disappointed that we didn't seem to be getting any benefit from having the well respected Hill in charge.
We survived but only just. We'd have been moved out of Craven Cottage if Cabra Estates hadn't gone bust. Dicks and Mackay were dreadful managers, the Cabra windfall was wasted and a crook was employed to "manage" our fund raising schemes.
Hill didn't want to sell to MAF.
If Hill had said "no" to the Muddymans the club probably would have folded but that apart (and of course that was massive) Hill's overseeing of the club's fortunes was actually pretty dismal.
Also created the first all-seater stadium. How many funders of political parties do far worse than play football in South Africa?
Quote from: domprague on November 12, 2014, 12:26:33 PM
Also created the first all-seater stadium. How many funders of political parties do far worse than play football in South Africa?
He organised rebel tours, for great personal profit, at a time when ALL international sporting bodies were boycotting South Africa.
It wasn't a last pay day for an over the hill, down on his luck, player.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on November 12, 2014, 08:32:04 AM
For services promoting rebel tours to apartheid South Africa perhaps.
A little harsh there Tony. If we look at all the sportsmen/women who have been recognized for the contributions to sport, not to mention the Political figures and those in other walks of life, then how many can be held up to such a high standard? Very few I would feel.
JH did a lot of good in the sport of football, not just Fulham, and a mistake is a mistake, if we base our opinions of people solely on those that never make mistakes, then we would be very lonely in this world.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on November 12, 2014, 12:29:11 PM
Quote from: domprague on November 12, 2014, 12:26:33 PM
Also created the first all-seater stadium. How many funders of political parties do far worse than play football in South Africa?
He organised rebel tours, for great personal profit, at a time when ALL international sporting bodies were boycotting South Africa.
It wasn't a last pay day for an over the hill, down on his luck, player.
Perhaps not ALL. What about the Kiwi tours? I seem to recall they took part during this troubled time.
Maybe nearly all then.
I don't see it as a mistake - I see it as a deeply selfish, racist endeavour for which he was well paid. Others can see it differently but I don't have a high opinion of him.
heres jimmy defending ron atkinsons racist comments about marcel desailly.
When asked whether Mr Atkinson should have resigned, Mr Hill insisted it was the "language of the football field".
The 75-year-old, who now presents a weekly programme on Sky Sports, added: "In that context, you wouldn't think that words like nigger were particularly insulting: it would be funny. Without meaning to insult any black men, it's us having fun.
"What about jokes about my long chin? I mean, nigger is black - so we have jokes where we call them niggers because they're black. Why should that be any more of an offence than someone calling me chinny?"
it seems that the only thing people find fault in is that he went to south Africa
so did a lot of cricketers and golfers none who seen to get this brought up
while most of us would not agree with his tour most people still brought rings with diamonds and gold and platignum all from south Africa
and although it was not making headlines like sports tours in made their government a lot more money
as i said before no one is perfect and many who have knighthoods have been a lot less than perfect
I just feel that over the years he has done a lot more for football than others who get this award
Quote from: colcliff on November 12, 2014, 01:35:22 PM
it seems that the only thing people find fault in is that he went to south Africa
so did a lot of cricketers and golfers none who seen to get this brought up
while most of us would not agree with his tour most people still brought rings with diamonds and gold and platignum all from south Africa
and although it was not making headlines like sports tours in made their government a lot more money
as i said before no one is perfect and many who have knighthoods have been a lot less than perfect
I just feel that over the years he has done a lot more for football than others who get this award
what do you think about the way he defended ron's comments.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on November 12, 2014, 12:29:11 PM
Quote from: domprague on November 12, 2014, 12:26:33 PM
Also created the first all-seater stadium. How many funders of political parties do far worse than play football in South Africa?
He organised rebel tours, for great personal profit, at a time when ALL international sporting bodies were boycotting South Africa.
It wasn't a last pay day for an over the hill, down on his luck, player.
That Tony is total rubbish, he had no personal money to help the club but his efforts behind the scenes are why we are still going, it makes me really angry when people who don't know the full facts but give an " account " of what they think happened slag Hill off.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on November 12, 2014, 01:03:19 PM
Maybe nearly all then.
I don't see it as a mistake - I see it as a deeply selfish, racist endeavour for which he was well paid. Others can see it differently but I don't have a high opinion of him.
I'd bet my house that you see ''racism'' everywhere. Without Jimmy Hill's initial efforts there would now no longer be a Fulham football club as we know it. Tell me, do you think Guy Gibson VC was racist too because of his dog's name?
Quote from: win-dup on November 12, 2014, 02:08:30 PM
Quote from: TonyGilroy on November 12, 2014, 01:03:19 PM
Maybe nearly all then.
I don't see it as a mistake - I see it as a deeply selfish, racist endeavour for which he was well paid. Others can see it differently but I don't have a high opinion of him.
I'd bet my house that you see ''racism'' everywhere. Without Jimmy Hill's initial efforts there would now no longer be a Fulham football club as we know it. Tell me, do you think Guy Gibson VC was racist too because of his dog's name?
And some people, like Mr Hill, choose to see racism nowhere.
Organising a rebel tour of apartheid South Africa was, I think, a racist act. Guy Gibson's dog name not in the context of the times although it would be today.
What do you make of Hill's support of Mr Atkinson?
I do not want to get into a political debate on racism
and yes we all know what Ron and Rodney marsh and even |George Best said said but Paul Elliott used the same word and although he stood down from his position he is still very much involved in football
and there are many who say things in private that them make out they are whiter than white in public
any way as i said this is not about any thing more than a man who has done a lot for his sport being shown some honour
As one who enjoyed his enthusiasm as a player and have seen him do so much good over the years in many different roles I think he is simply a great man and I am so pleased that he has strong Fulham links.
The knighthood system would have more credibility if the name of Jimmy Hill was on the list.
Jimmy Hill organised the tour with the multi racial non racist FCSA. (Football Council of South Africa). Several English black players went on the tour. A great many black South Africans welcomed the tour.
A mistake to go? Probably. A rascist agenda? No.
Given what Jimmy Hill did for FFC Mr Gilroy's comments are a tad harsh.
I can remember Jimmy joining us along with Ron Greenwood, both signed from Brentford. Ron wasn't with us for long but JH spent the rest of his playing career with us, leaving to take over at Coventry. Whilst I am aware of his involvement with the South Africa venture, as far as I am concerned, I wil only judge him on his Fulham involvement. As a player, he always gave of his best, I too remember his barren spell, which ended with a hat trick ( good job the Internet wasn't around then). He also had the clubs best interest when he and Tom Wilson took over the running of the club.
All sporting bodies were supposed to boycott South Africa. Official international rugby teams played matches there and there were plenty of cricket tours. Apartheid South Africa was a shameful place and Hill should not have gone - but what I am saying is that many of those who have been honoured by governments have done a damn sight worse.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on November 12, 2014, 12:29:11 PM
Quote from: domprague on November 12, 2014, 12:26:33 PM
Also created the first all-seater stadium. How many funders of political parties do far worse than play football in South Africa?
He organised rebel tours, for great personal profit, at a time when ALL international sporting bodies were boycotting South Africa.
It wasn't a last pay day for an over the hill, down on his luck, player.
Quote from: colcliff on November 12, 2014, 07:33:03 AM
As I hear that Jimmy Hills health is fading is it not about time they gave this man a knighthood
Not perhaps the most gifted of players , but has probably done more to change the face of football than many others
I think its about time that a petition was taken up and sent to parliament especially when there are many others who have done a lot less that get these awards
Here's a few examples of KBE's and DBE's etc
IT'S WHO YOU KNOW !
Prince Bola Ajibola (Nigeria) KBE 1989 Politics/Government Attorney-General and Minister of Justice of Nigeria, 1985–1991
Alhaji Abubakar Alhaji (Nigeria) KBE 1989 Politics/Government Minister of Budget and Planning of Nigeria, 1988–1990
George Bush (Most Honourable Order of the Bath)
Angelina Jolie United States, Cambodia DCMG 2014 Humanitarian For services to the United Kingdom's foreign policy and for campaigning to end sexual violence in war zones.
Baron von Seckendorff German Empire GCVO 1904 Military (Vice-Admiral) Master of the Household to Prince Henry of Prussia (Just before the 1st World War !!)
Kiran Shamsher Jang Bahadur Rana (Nepal) – Rana Dynasty KBE 1945 Royalty
Sir Thomas John Parker, GBE Kt. (born 8 April 1942) is a British businessman. He is currently Chairman of Anglo American PLC and Ombu Group, Deputy Chairman of DP World, and a Director of EADS and Carnival Corporation & plc. He is also Past President of the Royal Academy of Engineering,[1] and a Visiting Fellow of the University of Oxford. Sir John has chaired five FTSE 100 companies, including National Grid plc, from which he stood down in December 2011. He was born in County Down, Northern Ireland.
Sir Francis Drake - SLAVE TRADER
Sir John Hawkins - SLAVE TRADER
Another bunch of folks who have been knighted for doing their jobs and getting highly paid for it:
Sir Richard Langhorne, who was appointed C&W chairman in 2003, said he was "thrilled" to receive the honour and said it was "a great tribute to the fantastic work that the men and women of Cable & Wireless have put in."
He is among a handful of businessmen to be honoured by the Queen for services to business. David Chipperfield of David Chipperfield Architects will be knighted for services to architecture in the UK and Germany, and Ian Grant, former chairman of The Crown Estate, will also receive a knighthood.
Christopher Bolt, arbiter for the London Underground's public private partnership agreements, and former chairman of the Office of Rail Regulation, will be made a Companion of the Order of the Bath.
Ian Luder, the 681st Lord Mayor of London who stepped down last month, has become the first top City Alderman not to get a knighthood since Harold Howard in 1954. Instead Mr Luder, a former Labour councillor, will be awarded a CBE for public service. SHAME
Michael John Marshall, chairman of engineering group Marshall of Cambridge, which designed and made the droop nose of the Concorde, receives a knighthood for services to business, charity and to the community in Cambridgeshire.
Dyfrig John, a 59-year-old banker who is credited with helping reshape HSBC's UK branch network during a 38-year career was made a CBE. He was only one in the sector to be honoured.
There were also CBEs for Lucian Grange, chairman and chief executive of Universal Music International, and Rodney Cousens, chief executive of computer games developer Codemasters.
Michelle Mone, the underwear entrepreneur and creator of the cleavage-enhancing Ultimo bra, received an OBE. VERY WORTHY OF AN HONOURY TITLE
This system ranks along side my other subjects I advise people not to 'get me into'
The Catholic Church, Fine Art Museums, Multi-million $ paintings, Most Politicians and Toffs
I'd knight him just for the chin
Quote from: rogerpinvirginia on November 12, 2014, 03:40:54 PM
Quote from: colcliff on November 12, 2014, 07:33:03 AM
As I hear that Jimmy Hills health is fading is it not about time they gave this man a knighthood
Not perhaps the most gifted of players , but has probably done more to change the face of football than many others
I think its about time that a petition was taken up and sent to parliament especially when there are many others who have done a lot less that get these awards
Here's a few examples of KBE's and DBE's etc
IT'S WHO YOU KNOW !
Prince Bola Ajibola (Nigeria) KBE 1989 Politics/Government Attorney-General and Minister of Justice of Nigeria, 19851991
Alhaji Abubakar Alhaji (Nigeria) KBE 1989 Politics/Government Minister of Budget and Planning of Nigeria, 19881990
George Bush (Most Honourable Order of the Bath)
Angelina Jolie United States, Cambodia DCMG 2014 Humanitarian For services to the United Kingdom's foreign policy and for campaigning to end sexual violence in war zones.
Baron von Seckendorff German Empire GCVO 1904 Military (Vice-Admiral) Master of the Household to Prince Henry of Prussia (Just before the 1st World War !!)
Kiran Shamsher Jang Bahadur Rana (Nepal) Rana Dynasty KBE 1945 Royalty
Sir Thomas John Parker, GBE Kt. (born 8 April 1942) is a British businessman. He is currently Chairman of Anglo American PLC and Ombu Group, Deputy Chairman of DP World, and a Director of EADS and Carnival Corporation & plc. He is also Past President of the Royal Academy of Engineering,[1] and a Visiting Fellow of the University of Oxford. Sir John has chaired five FTSE 100 companies, including National Grid plc, from which he stood down in December 2011. He was born in County Down, Northern Ireland.
Sir Francis Drake - SLAVE TRADER
Sir John Hawkins - SLAVE TRADER
Another bunch of folks who have been knighted for doing their jobs and getting highly paid for it:
Sir Richard Langhorne, who was appointed C&W chairman in 2003, said he was "thrilled" to receive the honour and said it was "a great tribute to the fantastic work that the men and women of Cable & Wireless have put in."
He is among a handful of businessmen to be honoured by the Queen for services to business. David Chipperfield of David Chipperfield Architects will be knighted for services to architecture in the UK and Germany, and Ian Grant, former chairman of The Crown Estate, will also receive a knighthood.
Christopher Bolt, arbiter for the London Underground's public private partnership agreements, and former chairman of the Office of Rail Regulation, will be made a Companion of the Order of the Bath.
Ian Luder, the 681st Lord Mayor of London who stepped down last month, has become the first top City Alderman not to get a knighthood since Harold Howard in 1954. Instead Mr Luder, a former Labour councillor, will be awarded a CBE for public service. SHAME
Michael John Marshall, chairman of engineering group Marshall of Cambridge, which designed and made the droop nose of the Concorde, receives a knighthood for services to business, charity and to the community in Cambridgeshire.
Dyfrig John, a 59-year-old banker who is credited with helping reshape HSBC's UK branch network during a 38-year career was made a CBE. He was only one in the sector to be honoured.
There were also CBEs for Lucian Grange, chairman and chief executive of Universal Music International, and Rodney Cousens, chief executive of computer games developer Codemasters.
Michelle Mone, the underwear entrepreneur and creator of the cleavage-enhancing Ultimo bra, received an OBE. VERY WORTHY OF AN HONOURY TITLE
This system ranks along side my other subjects I advise people not to 'get me into'
The Catholic Church, Fine Art Museums, Multi-million $ paintings, Most Politicians and Toffs
What about Politician toffs who are catholics??
You forgot to mention that both Drake and Hawkins were pirates (okay, privateers).
One thing about the honours system, it turns republicans like Tony Robinson into royalists when they get the nod. So it isn't all bad is it? :005:
Quote from: domprague on November 12, 2014, 12:26:33 PM
Also created the first all-seater stadium. How many funders of political parties do far worse than play football in South Africa?
First in England you mean...
Quote from: TonyGilroy on November 12, 2014, 10:08:37 AM
I don't think you get a knighthood for services to Fulham.
Maybe an ulcer more like?
Quote from: Barrett487 on November 12, 2014, 05:14:39 PM
Quote from: TonyGilroy on November 12, 2014, 10:08:37 AM
I don't think you get a knighthood for services to Fulham.
Maybe an ulcer more like?
Or like me High Blood Pressure...lol
Quote from: Peabody on November 12, 2014, 03:17:20 PM
I can remember Jimmy joining us along with Ron Greenwood, both signed from Brentford. Ron wasn't with us for long but JH spent the rest of his playing career with us, leaving to take over at Coventry. Whilst I am aware of his involvement with the South Africa venture, as far as I am concerned, I wil only judge him on his Fulham involvement. As a player, he always gave of his best, I too remember his barren spell, which ended with a hat trick ( good job the Internet wasn't around then). He also had the clubs best interest when he and Tom Wilson took over the running of the club.
Mr P, i agree with your sentiments and have no real issues with JH. But politics and sport are unfortunately joined at the hip. The movement towards equality and devolution of apartheid was morally correct and individuals or organisations profiting from undermining this was abhorant. I do also hold the view that there were many others who should have been held more accountable than Jim for taking sport to South Africa.
Having said all that, i liked/like Jimmy and probably always will. Call me a hypocrite if you will.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on November 12, 2014, 12:29:11 PM
Quote from: domprague on November 12, 2014, 12:26:33 PM
Also created the first all-seater stadium. How many funders of political parties do far worse than play football in South Africa?
He organised rebel tours, for great personal profit, at a time when ALL international sporting bodies were boycotting South Africa.
It wasn't a last pay day for an over the hill, down on his luck, player.
Bit off subject but the late great George Formby and his wife went to S A and did a concert because they were very popular and mrs Formby was on stage and a black girl came on stage and she hugged her. The powers that be almost dragged the girl off her and condemned the gig and artists.
They didn't cancel the tour, just played to concerts with half or less income but with no restrictions on anyone who came to see. Thought it deserved a mention as due to popularity she, SHE a strong woman, told the c***s were to go.
I served my apprenticeship in the '70's and everyone had a nickname, and a few had racist and sexist overtones. What was important to me then [and still is now] was that no-one went without breakfast when they struggled in on Monday broke and hungover, and we had whip rounds to support people when they had major issues, regardless of who or what they were.
I'm not defending those nicknames, and I'm glad we have to be more PC these days, but it's something I grew up with and in my youth I accepted. JH is twenty years older than me and he has often sounded and acted a bit foolish. It is not acceptable, and I think we all have a responsibility to respect the feelings of others. If he did truly believe in apartheid then that's unacceptable; but we are all children of the age we live in.
When ever i mention Jimmy Hill at home,Mr B whips out his i pad and plays the Scottish chant about him via you tube
