I work for an architectural recruitment/headhunting firm (although not for much longer) and a colleague has been tasked with finding people to work on the (re)development of Craven Cottage. He was under the impression though that it was more than just the riverside stand.
The architects are a firm called KSS.
If true, then my hope is that obviously we stay up, Khan increases the capacity of the stadium and as a result we have more incoming finances from match day to help us grow financially as a club.
Positive to hear and know things are moving forward.
Architect firms rarely ask to hire people if they're not going to actually do the work and normally do so last minute.
It's great news because it confirms our long term stay at the Cottage and that Khans intentions are good.
I don't think the increased capacity will benefit the club because we've already lost a good 8000 bums on seats because we're in the championship. So not sure how an extra 5000 empty seats will provide more revenue.
It will only benefit the club when we get back in the premier league and attract the tourists
Ah the reason Dannyboi is the club can use the new facilities during non match days if they develope the Riverside. At the moment they can make no income unless the team are playing at home.
What takes longer if you throw money at it.. Building a new ground/stand or building a new team ?
What General says is interesting and positive but it doesn't absolutely say to me that the job is going ahead or that KSS have been awarded it. Often if firms are bidding for work they use agencies to help put together a portfolio of CVs of suitably-experienced people to support their bid and whom (or their like) they would hope to use if awarded it. Thus, the same people can often appear in more than one bid!
It's positive in that it looks as if bids are now actually being sought for the detailed design phase (well short of construction) but maybe General could ask his colleague to find out what stage KSS are at - are they just bidding or have they actually been awarded the job? The former, I suspect.
I don't see this as good news. last time we redeveloped the riverside we went backwards because no money was spent on team development.
This is chucking money away for no good reason! We should have purchased some players in the transfer window first, and then started building a new stand. This isn't securing our future it is adding to the burden of debt which if we fail on the field, and we are, then it spells economic suicide.
the time to build is when we have secured promotion to the prem!
When you say "more than just the Riverside stand" -- did they specify the word STADIUM - or was it a residential application ??!
How about this being on there website should mean they have got it right?http://www.kssgroup.com/projects.php
Just looked at KSS website and the redevelopment is on there! So good news that our owner is seeing this through. Hopefully team building will commence in the summer although a couple of loans would be good to see us stay up!
How can it be logical to start spending millions on improving the infrastructure given the current state of the team?
Even if we got back to Premier, would we fill a 32,000 stadium ?
Or is there another ulterior motive to this rush into redevelopment ?
What about financing the team and populating the Board of directors with people who know what they're doing ?
Pathetic project and totally out of sync as to where FFC are now
I remember Darlington moving into a new stadium---just before they got relegated out of the Football League
Quote from: Baszab on February 18, 2015, 01:34:47 PM
How can it be logical to start spending millions on improving the infrastructure given the current state of the team?
Even if we got back to Premier, would we fill a 32,000 stadium ?
Or is there another ulterior motive to this rush into redevelopment ?
What about financing the team and populating the Board of directors with people who know what they're doing ?
Pathetic project and totally out of sync as to where FFC are now
I remember Darlington moving into a new stadium---just before they got relegated out of the Football League
In the prem we would fill the stadium, that is hardly the issue.
But I have said elsewhere that the team needs to be improved first because this scale of development could cripple the clubs finances if we do not get promoted.
The board is a favourite subject of mine. they are demonstrably failing and have been for ages and need replacing.
The project is not 'pathetic' but the timing is completely wrong for our current state. It is the right project to start the second we get ourselves into the top division.
You cant stand still, you need to be planning for the future which of course you hope will be bright.
What do you do try and get promoted then spend two years planning again while you struggle again in the PL, put a fork in the ground and then you go down building a new stand.
There is never a good time to build the stand, but it has to be done at some stage and the sooner the better.
the money is accounted for and budgeted and has no relation to the finances of signings as we could not afford to spend 30M on players as its outside of FFP.
pathetic TIMING of the project - OK ??!!
Quote from: Baszab on February 18, 2015, 01:42:22 PM
pathetic TIMING of the project - OK ??!!
So you wait till go up stuck with the same level of fans and one of the poorest matchday revenues in the top 2 divisions.
Quote from: MJG on February 18, 2015, 01:42:06 PM
You cant stand still, you need to be planning for the future which of course you hope will be bright.
What do you do try and get promoted then spend two years planning again while you struggle again in the PL, put a fork in the ground and then you go down building a new stand.
There is never a good time to build the stand, but it has to be done at some stage and the sooner the better.
the money is accounted for and budgeted and has no relation to the finances of signings as we could not afford to spend 30M on players as its outside of FFP.
The voice of reason again.
Building projects like this take years as this one has already in planning. Expanding the stadium is the right thing to do if we are ambitious and aiming for stability in the PL. For that, as MJG says, we need to invest in the redevelopment now, not wait until we are back in the PL.
Of course to get back in the PL then performances on the pitch need to improve. Whether that's through new players, a new manager, something else or a combination of these things is another matter.
Does stadium development etc affect FFP?
I don't think it would. In which case, I would feel its irrelevant as Khan has the money for the development of the non-playing side of the business.
However, we need to be investing wisely in the transfer market to keep in line with FFP and also get all-round quality on the pitch
Quote from: Baszab on February 18, 2015, 01:42:22 PM
pathetic TIMING of the project - OK ??!!
well said... do you think there is an ulterior motive... if so what would it be? I really do not believe this is the case because it isn't obvious what is going on and why a successful man would get involved in a project like fulham unless he actually wants to make the team a success. I just think he is going about it the wrong way.
Match-day revenue is almost irrelevant now if each Premier match TV license is worth £10m per game - and the TV rights will only increase over time
An extra 5000 fans generating, say £200k per game = £4m pa plus food/hospitality = say £5m per season - small beer
I am sorry to be argumentative but let's stick with what we've got on the stadium and put ALL OUR RESOURCES - i.e. Khan's money (subject to FPP) into getting back up again.
Quote from: MJG on February 18, 2015, 01:42:06 PM
You cant stand still, you need to be planning for the future which of course you hope will be bright.
What do you do try and get promoted then spend two years planning again while you struggle again in the PL, put a fork in the ground and then you go down building a new stand.
There is never a good time to build the stand, but it has to be done at some stage and the sooner the better.
the money is accounted for and budgeted and has no relation to the finances of signings as we could not afford to spend 30M on players as its outside of FFP.
I recall when they built the riverside stand all those years ago. The same arguments were used then, and in fact the team was starved of resources in those days too, as seems to be happening now, and the riverside stand sat almost entirely empty until we joined the Prem.
The team comes first, always. That is the core of the business.
If you take on a massive project with a vast debt that will need to be repaid at some point in the future, and it will, then we had have to be in the prem or when kahn gets fed up and walks away, and wants his money back, as MAF did too, and there is no buyer because we are a failing team in the wrong division with a massive liability, then our future would be in real doubt.
This is appalling timin if they are starting at the end of the season, unless mr kahn is going to share with us how all this is to be financed and that the team is not being compromised in any way whatsoever.
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on February 18, 2015, 02:06:00 PM
Quote from: MJG on February 18, 2015, 01:42:06 PM
You cant stand still, you need to be planning for the future which of course you hope will be bright.
What do you do try and get promoted then spend two years planning again while you struggle again in the PL, put a fork in the ground and then you go down building a new stand.
There is never a good time to build the stand, but it has to be done at some stage and the sooner the better.
the money is accounted for and budgeted and has no relation to the finances of signings as we could not afford to spend 30M on players as its outside of FFP.
The voice of reason again.
Building projects like this take years as this one has already in planning. Expanding the stadium is the right thing to do if we are ambitious and aiming for stability in the PL. For that, as MJG says, we need to invest in the redevelopment now, not wait until we are back in the PL.
Of course to get back in the PL then performances on the pitch need to improve. Whether that's through new players, a new manager, something else or a combination of these things is another matter.
There is nothing to suggest we are investing on the pitch for the future. Everything looks set for us to remain in the lower divisions for some time to come. If we were serious about improving two things would have happened by now
1. the board would have been changed either entirely or almost entirely
2. we would have brought in some talent in the last window to boost the first team's capability
A new project of this size with no realistic possibility of returning to the prem, and that is the only place we will be able to fill the stadium, will just saddle us with a crippling debbt that we would be unable to repay when Kahn gets fed up and walks away.
Sorry, that is just the way it is. If MAF would have done it when we were in the top flight, wonderful, but now it looks like economic maddness of the greek kind.
Quote from: Baszab on February 18, 2015, 02:18:37 PM
Match-day revenue is almost irrelevant now if each Premier match TV license is worth £10m per game - and the TV rights will only increase over time
An extra 5000 fans generating, say £200k per game = £4m pa plus food/hospitality = say £5m per season - small beer
I am sorry to be argumentative but let's stick with what we've got on the stadium and put ALL OUR RESOURCES - i.e. Khan's money (subject to FPP) into getting back up again.
well put!
AM in favour of the new stadium, we need to move forward both on and off the pitch. It shows a commitment from Kahn as he is hardly likely to fund and then run off, and more than likely (in my opinion) indicates he is willing to invest in the squad as well as use the youth to move us forward.
Quote from: MJG on February 18, 2015, 01:42:06 PM
You cant stand still, you need to be planning for the future which of course you hope will be bright.
What do you do try and get promoted then spend two years planning again while you struggle again in the PL, put a fork in the ground and then you go down building a new stand.
There is never a good time to build the stand, but it has to be done at some stage and the sooner the better.
the money is accounted for and budgeted and has no relation to the finances of signings as we could not afford to spend 30M on players as its outside of FFP.
I agree entirely.
So should we wait until we are back in the Premiership? Re-apply for planning permission / consultations etc could take ages. If Khan chooses to invest now and capital investments like this don't affect our FFP or our ability / inclination to invest in the squad and the Academy, it makes sense if you have that level of ambition. Of course if the team fails to deliver then it will take a long time for investment to be paid back .. if ever. But I don't see how this ambition and belief is "pathetic". Optimistic perhaps, naïve possibly, but it shows a commitment to the longer term.
Never trust a man with a moustache.... 051
QuoteSo should we wait until we are back in the Premiership? Re-apply for planning permission / consultations etc could take ages. If Khan chooses to invest now and capital investments like this don't affect our FFP or our ability / inclination to invest in the squad and the Academy, it makes sense if you have that level of ambition. Of course if the team fails to deliver then it will take a long time for investment to be paid back .. if ever. But I don't see how this ambition and belief is "pathetic". Optimistic perhaps, naïve possibly, but it shows a commitment to the longer term.
But is it a commitment to long term vision? Why now ? To host possible Premier football in 5 years time? We are so far away from being promoted now that it doesn't smell right. How will it be financed? By loans that Khan can call in ? Huge interest payments like the Glazers did ? Capital investment out of Khan's pocket - unlikely surely? Does the stadium increase the value of Khan's investment - does it increase earnings potential ?.......not a bit IMHO
Smells of a NFL franchise venue
The way things are going it should make the redevelopment much easier, if we go down again and have gates of around 10000 there will be no need to use the riverside stand on match days as in the original plan so it can be shut down and worked on continuously making the job a lot quicker.
Master plan by Mr Khan? fp.gif 079.gif 090.gif
Quote from: nose on February 18, 2015, 02:26:15 PM
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on February 18, 2015, 02:06:00 PM
Quote from: MJG on February 18, 2015, 01:42:06 PM
You cant stand still, you need to be planning for the future which of course you hope will be bright.
What do you do try and get promoted then spend two years planning again while you struggle again in the PL, put a fork in the ground and then you go down building a new stand.
There is never a good time to build the stand, but it has to be done at some stage and the sooner the better.
the money is accounted for and budgeted and has no relation to the finances of signings as we could not afford to spend 30M on players as its outside of FFP.
The voice of reason again.
Building projects like this take years as this one has already in planning. Expanding the stadium is the right thing to do if we are ambitious and aiming for stability in the PL. For that, as MJG says, we need to invest in the redevelopment now, not wait until we are back in the PL.
Of course to get back in the PL then performances on the pitch need to improve. Whether that's through new players, a new manager, something else or a combination of these things is another matter.
There is nothing to suggest we are investing on the pitch for the future. Everything looks set for us to remain in the lower divisions for some time to come. If we were serious about improving two things would have happened by now
1. the board would have been changed either entirely or almost entirely
2. we would have brought in some talent in the last window to boost the first team's capability
A new project of this size with no realistic possibility of returning to the prem, and that is the only place we will be able to fill the stadium, will just saddle us with a crippling debbt that we would be unable to repay when Kahn gets fed up and walks away.
Sorry, that is just the way it is. If MAF would have done it when we were in the top flight, wonderful, but now it looks like economic maddness of the greek kind.
You do like to interpret events in a way that suits your view.
Look, like almost everyone else, I'm frustrated by the situation, the lack of effective recruitment, the performances, etc..
I think Khan would argue that he has invested in Magath, Mitroglou and McCormack - two massive fails and a so-so (in terms of turning our fortunes around).
Khan also change the Board when he came in. Maybe these two points are related.
I was surprised that there was no recruitment in the last window but if you were a talented, ambitious player would you go to a Championship club who had little or no chance of getting promoted? I did expect a loan or two though.
The investment in the redevelopment I think shows that Khan has a long term plan. If Khan was thinking of leaving it would be a bad business move to saddle the club with more debt because it would just lower the price he would get when selling the club. Recall that MAF tightened finances before he sold. Khan would lose a good deal of money if he tried to sell now. He would lose even more if there was added debt.
So basically do nothing is what some of you want to do.
what if we get promoted at end of 2015-16 which is possible.
you are then looking at two full seasons at least without the stand and stuck at the 25700 limit we have already and were filling up.so fall even further behind those clubs who have the 30K size grounds.
if matchday income is no longer a factor then why bother building anything, why not just have an empty ground?
you need to step back and look at the bigger picture. FFP will and does have an effect on how much we can spend/invest, you need the extra income to allow you to spend more.
If part of the Riverside has to be closed during the work then it makes sense to build as soon as possible. No good waiting until we are promoted and reduce capacity then.
OR
I remember when we had a ruby league team playing at the Cottage - maybe we will share with an American football team?
Is the recruitment company also looking for midfielders?
http://www.uefa.com/community/news/newsid=2064391.html (http://www.uefa.com/community/news/newsid=2064391.html)
Stadium costs will not impact FFP, the development would be an investment for Khan and we can still put the appropriate amount of money into the quality of the playing staff.
Quote from: f321ffc on February 18, 2015, 03:01:41 PM
The way things are going it should make the redevelopment much easier, if we go down again and have gates of around 10000 there will be no need to use the riverside stand on match days as in the original plan so it can be shut down and worked on continuously making the job a lot quicker.
Master plan by Mr Khan? fp.gif 079.gif 090.gif
You could be right there.
Never trust a man with a moustache.... 051
:005:
Quote from: Baszab on February 18, 2015, 02:55:40 PM
QuoteSo should we wait until we are back in the Premiership? Re-apply for planning permission / consultations etc could take ages. If Khan chooses to invest now and capital investments like this don't affect our FFP or our ability / inclination to invest in the squad and the Academy, it makes sense if you have that level of ambition. Of course if the team fails to deliver then it will take a long time for investment to be paid back .. if ever. But I don't see how this ambition and belief is "pathetic". Optimistic perhaps, naïve possibly, but it shows a commitment to the longer term.
But is it a commitment to long term vision? Why now ? To host possible Premier football in 5 years time? We are so far away from being promoted now that it doesn't smell right. How will it be financed? By loans that Khan can call in ? Huge interest payments like the Glazers did ? Capital investment out of Khan's pocket - unlikely surely? Does the stadium increase the value of Khan's investment - does it increase earnings potential ?.......not a bit IMHO
Smells of a NFL franchise venue
Smells of an owner looking to a bright future for our club, which you are obviously not.
It will have no impact on the money available for the squad since it is not restricted by FFP and if it is not built now the permission will expire and they would have to start the process all over again.
You also seem to know little about the NFL either since our pitch is far too small to play American Football on.
It would be more believable if you'd suggest that we were being moved to the potential NFL franchise venue - Wembley Stadium - to join the Jaguars
An NFL franchise in such a small stadium lol. Now if we were West Ham moving to the Olympic Stadium I'd say that's a very good point but I fail to see a franchise of that kind settling for a tiny cottage as changing rooms etc.
You were very abrupt and patronising in your defence of Kit saying anyone against him is greedy and impatient. But then you slate the chairman for doing good? Little bit contradicting isn't it?
I'm very happy with the plans, it doesn't affect FFP because you're allowed to improve the club facilities as a way to increase revenue which hopefully results in more money for players. Our threshold will be bigger.
It will only benefit us in the premier league but surely it's best to get it out of the way before we get there, it could be quite disruptive when we are selling out every week.
Khan has alot of faults and I'm not convinced he has the knowledge or knowhow to get us promoted. But even I'm willing to see the good in him when it's merited.
His intentions appear to be for the right reasons and he seems genuine. Juries out though on his capabilities but to be fair so it should be after the way things have been run since he took over
Quote from: Roberty on February 18, 2015, 03:34:48 PM
You also seem to know little about the NFL either since our pitch is far too small to play American Football on.
It would be more believable if you'd suggest that we were being moved to the potential NFL franchise venue - Wembley Stadium - to join the Jaguars
I think you will find that our pitch is 110 yds long and an NFL pitch is 120 yards - I'm sure Khan could squeeze another 10 yards out of ours.
Putting aside concerns of relegation and fears of Mr Khan having hidden agenda, i must say i am impressed with the proposed redevelopment for the riverside having looked at the KSS site the stand looks great.
I have two hopes first i hope it goes ahead secondly i hope i am still alive to see it because it does seem to be dragging on.
COYW 092.gif 049:gif
the problem I see at |Fulham at the moment is everything is for the future
a better ground for the future
young players for the future
younger players being brought in for the future
this is all great but if we are not careful we may not have a future
we keep on about money for players but Bournemouth and Brentford have proved that you do not have to spend millions to Build a good team capable of challenging for promotion. perhaps we should look at our scouting system or what sort of players they are being asked to get
One of the main problems with CC is that it is a crap place for corporate events/dinners/conferences etc, they can all be money making concerns in the right environment.
Good post Danny-Boi. A London based NFL franchise at Craven Cottage? Seriously? Even with an increased gate of 30,000 give or take? The NFL is the only sporting franchise that has more money than the Premier League, even after taking the new, increased TV deal into account. They would not settle for such a small venue to host an entire season of a London-based NFL team. Now Wembley they would consider....
Colcliff - I know the world is a dark place, and we are sitting in the shade. Things are not going well, and there is no doubt that some in the club have under-estimated the strength of the squad, probably reassured by a run of good results shortly after Kit took over. It will take a while, and some guile, to get us out of it. Patience may be a virtue, but it's not a lot of fun watching our team slump towards relegation. However, at some stage you may see light at the end of the tunnel, you may see some froth on your beer again (unless you are a pesky lager drinker). Stay the course. The good days will be that much sweeter.
pointless if we are in the lower divisions,not the premier league.
Quite frankly I am amazed that people are glibly talking about a return to the Premiership - it took us 30 years last time - this is purely greedy and presumptuous = we have no god-given right to go back up again and certainly not with the crap squad we have now - it could take years to get the squad balanced and a winning mentality installed - I and I am sure many others don't give a monkeys about some fancy new stadium where we can host corporates while watching Milton Keynes and Fleetwood at home
Quote from: f321ffc on February 18, 2015, 04:06:58 PM
Putting aside concerns of relegation and fears of Mr Khan having hidden agenda, i must say i am impressed with the proposed redevelopment for the riverside having looked at the KSS site the stand looks great.
I have two hopes first i hope it goes ahead secondly i hope i am still alive to see it because it does seem to be dragging on.
COYW 092.gif 049:gif
I agree with your sentiment F32..... I'm sure it must pass through the head of the entire Old Sod division. I was at the opening of The Riverside in 72' and would love to make the opening of the new one.
For my penny's worth the starting of the development would signal our Chairmanship commitment to our wonderful old club that I really hope my smashing grandson can take his kids too and pay homage.
FTID
Personally i feel the stadium improvement is important, the costs do not impact FFP as I understand it, but the revenue form the stand helps with income and thus increase your spending power, maybe not by much but it helps.
I do not think we have a god given right to go back up, but I do think we are only 3 or 4 players away from a squad that is capable of pushing for top 6
090.gif I think this probably will describe SK's action after this season. I find it incredulous that our rich billionaire owner would even consider wasting his valuable savings on ground development when his beloved club (under his guardianship) has been allowed to risk sinking to the 1st division and then has to get rid of it's best players (whoever they may be) this Summer. That should leave us with a team of under 18's and if he really wants to save money why not buy a load of benches for Bishops Park (our new ground) with a maximum attendance of 500. Under the FFP rules we might be able to appoint 2 tea ladies. Very sad days ahead with another nail in our coffin this weekend!
Quote from: Baszab on February 18, 2015, 02:18:37 PM
Match-day revenue is almost irrelevant now if each Premier match TV license is worth £10m per game - and the TV rights will only increase over time
An extra 5000 fans generating, say £200k per game = £4m pa plus food/hospitality = say £5m per season - small beer
I am sorry to be argumentative but let's stick with what we've got on the stadium and put ALL OUR RESOURCES - i.e. Khan's money (subject to FPP) into getting back up again.
Agreed, but you are not being argumentative, just talking common sense, something this club is now sadly missing!!
Quote from: f321ffc on February 18, 2015, 03:01:41 PM
The way things are going it should make the redevelopment much easier, if we go down again and have gates of around 10000 there will be no need to use the riverside stand on match days as in the original plan so it can be shut down and worked on continuously making the job a lot quicker.
Master plan by Mr Khan? fp.gif 079.gif 090.gif
We won't be getting gates of 10,000 if we go down, mind you the number of forum members might increase!
Anyway I'm in favour of building it... Anyone else?
Quote from: MJG on February 18, 2015, 03:06:38 PM
So basically do nothing is what some of you want to do.
what if we get promoted at end of 2015-16 which is possible.
you are then looking at two full seasons at least without the stand and stuck at the 25700 limit we have already and were filling up.so fall even further behind those clubs who have the 30K size grounds.
if matchday income is no longer a factor then why bother building anything, why not just have an empty ground?
you need to step back and look at the bigger picture. FFP will and does have an effect on how much we can spend/invest, you need the extra income to allow you to spend more.
I have to disagree slightly, firstly I think there is absolutely no chance of getting promotion in 2015/16 season unless you are talking about getting out of the 1st division and maybe that would be possible. The additional revenue, assuming you achieve maximum attendances and the we are in the PL does not really put us in a position to strengthen our squad to a level which can compete with the majority of other PL clubs. The horse has bolted and the FFP regulations will prevent us from moving onwards and upwards!
Only if I Get to start another thread about it...
Quote from: davew on February 18, 2015, 08:17:27 PM
Quote from: MJG on February 18, 2015, 03:06:38 PM
So basically do nothing is what some of you want to do.
what if we get promoted at end of 2015-16 which is possible.
you are then looking at two full seasons at least without the stand and stuck at the 25700 limit we have already and were filling up.so fall even further behind those clubs who have the 30K size grounds.
if matchday income is no longer a factor then why bother building anything, why not just have an empty ground?
you need to step back and look at the bigger picture. FFP will and does have an effect on how much we can spend/invest, you need the extra income to allow you to spend more.
I have to disagree slightly, firstly I think there is absolutely no chance of getting promotion in 2015/16 season unless you are talking about getting out of the 1st division and maybe that would be possible. The additional revenue, assuming you achieve maximum attendances and the we are in the PL does not really put us in a position to strengthen our squad to a level which can compete with the majority of other PL clubs. The horse has bolted and the FFP regulations will prevent us from moving onwards and upwards!
So do nothing then? That's it, we stay with the ground we have at this exact moment in time?
I'm more ignorant than usual when it comes to matters of money, but I suspect that Ground Development (fixed assets) and Transfer Fees and Wages (consumables) are budgeted and financed in different ways.
However if it had been possible to scrap the Riverside development and make all the money available for squad strengthening in the recent 'window', how much positive effect could we have made on our immediate playing prospects? Not much in my opinion. Even if we were prepared to pay £30m (say) for a £20m player there is no guarantee we could have persuaded him to come and even if we could, there is no guarantee that he would make an immediate impact.
Sensible ground development is, to my mind, an essential part of progress.
Quote from: MJG on February 18, 2015, 08:16:53 PM
Anyway I'm in favour of building it... Anyone else?
Yep definitely in favour.
Forget revenue, forget premier league. There seems to be too much obsession with promotion for my liking. Providing we aren't relegated I am happy to build as long as I can see progress.
At the end of it all the only thing that should matter to any Fulham fan is staying at Craven Cottage
Some may consider being able to view games live abroad with the TV coverage as top priority but to me, a fulham without the cottage wouldn't be Fulham. The ground can't sit still, it needs to be modernised in parts and secured as a long term home.
As long as the charm of he cottage/JH stand, open corners exposing the river and front of the ground remain unchanged I think the modernisation of the rest is vital.
I don't see how this affects our chances of promotion, the money used for the riverside is not the same budget used for the transfer kitty. I just don't see how it's bad other than empty seats but there's plenty of those anyway.
Love the club not the divison
Quote from: General on February 18, 2015, 08:55:24 AM
I work for an architectural recruitment/headhunting firm (although not for much longer) and a colleague has been tasked with finding people to work on the (re)development of Craven Cottage. He was under the impression though that it was more than just the riverside stand.
More than just
the riverside stand, or more than just
a riverside stand?
How that can be interpreted might raise many an eyebrow....
Quote from: MJG on February 18, 2015, 08:16:53 PM
Anyway I'm in favour of building it... Anyone else?
Yes.
I am not sure it is necessarily that wise .. unless you believe. Stand up if you still believe.
But I appreciate and admire the ambition. And even if the nightmare of relegation becomes a reality, it is a setback, not the end of the world .. or come to that of FFC if we have a committed and supportive owner...and a committed supporter base.
Quote from: Baszab on February 18, 2015, 06:41:16 PM
Quite frankly I am amazed that people are glibly talking about a return to the Premiership - it took us 30 years last time - this is purely greedy and presumptuous = we have no god-given right to go back up again and certainly not with the crap squad we have now - it could take years to get the squad balanced and a winning mentality installed - I and I am sure many others don't give a monkeys about some fancy new stadium where we can host corporates while watching Milton Keynes and Fleetwood at home
not just that... i am amazed how unrealistic people are and ignorant of how finance works
this development, if we do not go up could spell the end of fulham.... it is that nonsensical.... it is not a statement of ambition it is burdening the club with a massive debt that can only be srviced by life in the premiership.... and that looks a distant dream
there is no obvious sign the mnanagement have the first idea of how to the run the club with a view to getting us into the prem..it seems like they are doing the opposite intentionally to me..... maybe you are right, maybe they want a stadium that would be used for an NFL franchise.
i have zero faith in our leaders at the moment, they give no cause for optimism, as far as the people on the MB who think the new stand is a good idea, they clearly have never been in a position of running there own buisnesses otherwise they would instictively know this is wrong and they would also be able to do a few simple sums and prove it to be a disaster... as I said before this is an error of the greek economy proportions.
Furthermore..... no-one has proffered an answer to the hypothetical question of ...how would this redevelopment be financed ? - if it's by loans and Khan schlepps out big interest payments - that doesn't help FFC one iota
Quote from: Baszab on February 18, 2015, 10:32:23 PM
Furthermore..... no-one has proffered an answer to the hypothetical question of ...how would this redevelopment be financed ? - if it's by loans and Khan schlepps out big interest payments - that doesn't help FFC one iota
The finance is all in place for the stand, at least that's was I was told at a meeting with the club. They have spent millions already and hundreds of meetings involving it.
Will it be a lump sum from Khan, a loan or massive od I have no idea. But it's separate from any money related to the running of the team. It's long term planning and requirement to improve the ground so we can go forward and compete.
For people who moan about lack of ambition to then moan we are actually going to do something like this makes no sense.
Yes things on the pitch are not great, but as long as we stay up and get five first teamers in during the summer I believe we can compete for a top six place.
Now you can buy that or not, that's up to you, but what else do you want?
Sorry Nose, Baszab and others, I cannot believe how dense you are being. All the time, we hear people whine that Shahid should invest more money in the team. He's a very rich man and should spend, spend, spend! BUT HE IS NOT ALLOWED TO UNDER THE LEGAL REQUIREMENTS OF FFP.
So how can he show his commitment to the Club? How can he spend his own hard earned dosh on the Club? How can he re-assure fans that he is committed? How can he invest massive amounts of money in order to generate an increase in revenues? How can he prove that he is committed to staying at Craven Cottage? What could he possibly do that is OUTSIDE THE RESTRICTIONS OF FFP? Jeez, the bloke can't seem to win with some fans.
You talk about lumbering the Club with a massive debt for the Stand, but how do you know how it will be financed? Who's to say that he won't do what Mo did and transfer loans into equity in a few years time?
For me, building the new stand is a massive, massive step forward by Fulham and a huge commitment from Shahid. Bring it on!
Quote from: nose on February 18, 2015, 10:22:01 PM
Quote from: Baszab on February 18, 2015, 06:41:16 PM
Quite frankly I am amazed that people are glibly talking about a return to the Premiership - it took us 30 years last time - this is purely greedy and presumptuous = we have no god-given right to go back up again and certainly not with the crap squad we have now - it could take years to get the squad balanced and a winning mentality installed - I and I am sure many others don't give a monkeys about some fancy new stadium where we can host corporates while watching Milton Keynes and Fleetwood at home
not just that... i am amazed how unrealistic people are and ignorant of how finance works
this development, if we do not go up could spell the end of fulham.... it is that nonsensical.... it is not a statement of ambition it is burdening the club with a massive debt that can only be srviced by life in the premiership.... and that looks a distant dream
there is no obvious sign the mnanagement have the first idea of how to the run the club with a view to getting us into the prem..it seems like they are doing the opposite intentionally to me..... maybe you are right, maybe they want a stadium that would be used for an NFL franchise.
i have zero faith in our leaders at the moment, they give no cause for optimism, as far as the people on the MB who think the new stand is a good idea, they clearly have never been in a position of running there own buisnesses otherwise they would instictively know this is wrong and they would also be able to do a few simple sums and prove it to be a disaster... as I said before this is an error of the greek economy proportions.
Please explain for us financial ignoramuses how this development could spell the end of Fulham.
Build redevelopment for say £30m (?)
Charges interest at a hefty rate
Uses surplus at the club to pay for interest (no high earners left, parachute payments coming in)
Team muddles along at current standard with 6 juniors playing
Buys one marquee signing (RMcC) per year to get the season ticket sales up
Buggers off and leaves the debt and no income
Or needs to raise income and suggests NFL, apartment redevelopment etc etc other conspiracy theories
Just a hypothesis - btw did the Apollo programmes really land on the moon ??
Quote from: Baszab on February 18, 2015, 11:01:32 PM
Build redevelopment for say £30m (?)
Charges interest at a hefty rate
Uses surplus at the club to pay for interest (no high earners left, parachute payments coming in)
Team muddles along at current standard with 6 juniors playing
Buys one marquee signing (RMcC) per year to get the season ticket sales up
Buggers off and leaves the debt and no income
Or needs to raise income and suggests NFL, apartment redevelopment etc etc other conspiracy theories
Just a hypothesis - btw did the Apollo programmes really land on the moon ??
So Khan gives us a £30m debt plus interest payments then "buggers off"?
Who takes over? How much will they pay for the club? They are going to factor in the cost of any debt in the price they offer. As far as I recall the club is debt free and we are running more or less sustainably. So even if we take on a debt of £30m plus interest the assets would seem to be worth more than any debts.
The loser in your scenario would seem to be Khan who would be throwing away most of his £200m investment.
I'm all for it. We can't go back to (if we ever get there) the Premiership with our current ground / setup, we'd come straight back down again, or at least hover around the relegation places. If we do ever get back, I want us to compete for the long term, and redeveloping part of the ground is essential for that. Not just for bigger crowds, but bigger revenues, and something that basically drag us into the future.
At the end of the day I support a football club. I'm a bus driver and I know my fair share about football. Business? I have no clue and I don't pretend I do.
From the outside it just seems a commitment to the long term future at our historical home. Is it bad business? It's the multi billionaires decision against a handful on an MB. Without trying to sound as patronising as others are being, I think I'll put my trust in the hands of Khan on this one.
No offence intended of course and his FOOTBALLING decisions so far have been poor but somehow it can't see him going ahead with this development if he wasn't certain it was beneficial.
W
Quote from: dannyboi-ffc on February 18, 2015, 11:09:24 PM
At the end of the day I support a football club. I'm a bus driver and I know my fair share about football. Business? I have no clue and I don't pretend I do.
From the outside it just seems a commitment to the long term future at our historical home. Is it bad business? It's the multi billionaires decision against a handful on an MB. Without trying to sound as patronising as others are being, I think I'll put my trust in the hands of Khan on this one.
No offence intended of course and his FOOTBALLING decisions so far have been poor but somehow it can't see him going ahead with this development if he wasn't certain it was beneficial.
[/quote
When I put my hand out at that request stop down the Old Kent Road, why didn't you stop, instead of running over my foot, and sticking two fingers up at me at the same time.
By the way I am with you on rebuilding the Riverside Stand ASAP.
Quote from: Admin on February 18, 2015, 11:08:01 PM
I'm all for it. We can't go back to (if we ever get there) the Premiership with our current ground / setup, we'd come straight back down again, or at least hover around the relegation places. If we do ever get back, I want us to compete for the long term, and redeveloping part of the ground is essential for that. Not just for bigger crowds, but bigger revenues, and something that basically drag us into the future.
This...
This is by far the best news that's come out of Fulham in years. Nothing means more to me than watching us play at London's oldest place of worship. I don't care who our owner is, I don't care who our manager is, I don't even care what league we are in or who dons the shirt. But I do care about where I choose to worship my religion. This new stand will end fears that are always in the back of my mind about our stadium turning into flats, or ground sharing with QPR. It also leads me to believe that shad won't just stop at the refurbishment and that he will do all he can to gets us back into the top flight. Ladies and gentleman, we are The Fulham Club and Craven Cottage is our home.
Find it staggering that anyone is against this. Absolutely vital imho. Would be brilliant and would show Khans commitment and help allay some of those nagging doubts regarding CCs future.
Its not just bums on seats, non matchday revenue massively increased and as much as I love the Cottage its basically two temporary ends and a small riverside 42 year old stand. The JH is obviously incomparable and irreplaceable. Everyone is building , increasing capacity etc. 25K is not enough, I dont subcribe to this 10k empty seats bollocks , it has to built for a future where there isnt.
Its taken years to get this stage, surely we don't want to go through all that planning process again.
Build it now I say
We needed this when we were in the PL. There's no point in building it if there isn't the intention for us to return.
However, I do recall when the Riverside was being built for £100k or thereabouts, comparisons were made with Pompey who were ploughing money into players instead. They got short-term advantage and we cannot ignore the need for reinforcement on that side as well. The two go hand-in-hand.
Quote from: MJG on February 18, 2015, 08:16:53 PM
Anyway I'm in favour of building it... Anyone else?
Absolutely, there are many reasons to want to build it. Committment from the owner being high up the list. Even if we are relegated we could potentially gain 2 promotions back to the Premier League before its completed.
Quote from: nose on February 18, 2015, 10:22:01 PM
Quote from: Baszab on February 18, 2015, 06:41:16 PM
Quite frankly I am amazed that people are glibly talking about a return to the Premiership - it took us 30 years last time - this is purely greedy and presumptuous = we have no god-given right to go back up again and certainly not with the crap squad we have now - it could take years to get the squad balanced and a winning mentality installed - I and I am sure many others don't give a monkeys about some fancy new stadium where we can host corporates while watching Milton Keynes and Fleetwood at home
not just that... i am amazed how unrealistic people are and ignorant of how finance works
this development, if we do not go up could spell the end of fulham.... it is that nonsensical.... it is not a statement of ambition it is burdening the club with a massive debt that can only be srviced by life in the premiership.... and that looks a distant dream
there is no obvious sign the mnanagement have the first idea of how to the run the club with a view to getting us into the prem..it seems like they are doing the opposite intentionally to me..... maybe you are right, maybe they want a stadium that would be used for an NFL franchise.
i have zero faith in our leaders at the moment, they give no cause for optimism, as far as the people on the MB who think the new stand is a good idea, they clearly have never been in a position of running there own buisnesses otherwise they would instictively know this is wrong and they would also be able to do a few simple sums and prove it to be a disaster... as I said before this is an error of the greek economy proportions.
I think Mr Khan probably knows a bit about running a business. A football club, well he is learning fast, however if he is not a successful businessman i don't know who is !
If he genuinely intends us to return to the PL it's essential; if he doesn't then it's pointless.
If you're against it, and what SK is doing, the answer is really simple. Buy him out and do it your way. Can't do that? No point in commenting further then is there?
Best thing that could happen. Well done SK who has the vision for Fulham's future in mind, it is stunning.
The Riverside redevelopment has to be good news for the Club
Yes we have to fix the football side of the business as well and Khan knows this .
I think he also realises that he does not know enough or have enough time to manage this and more importantly does not this Macintosh does either .
Hence the appointment of Mike Rigg . Has he started full time yet ? I thought i had read that it would be March before he could be full time ?
I think its great news, and like Blingo said someone wants to do it differently then buy the club.
But then there is no pleasing some people, they seem to be negative no matter what the club does
Southampton suffered badly after moving to St Marys, eventually going into administration and dropping from the top flight to League One. Now they're 4th in the Prem.
Looking ahead with positivity will bring you success in the future.
Quote from: Baszab on February 18, 2015, 11:01:32 PM
Build redevelopment for say £30m (?)
Charges interest at a hefty rate
Uses surplus at the club to pay for interest (no high earners left, parachute payments coming in)
Team muddles along at current standard with 6 juniors playing
Buys one marquee signing (RMcC) per year to get the season ticket sales up
Buggers off and leaves the debt and no income
Or needs to raise income and suggests NFL, apartment redevelopment etc etc other conspiracy theories
Just a hypothesis - btw did the Apollo programmes really land on the moon ??
"Debt and no income" would be a very attractive investment opportunity for a new owner.
The scenario you describe would leave Khan walking away from the club losing everything he invested. I'm sure he's highly motivated to do this.
Quote from: The Equalizer on February 19, 2015, 11:27:27 AM
Southampton suffered badly after moving to St Marys, eventually going into administration and dropping from the top flight to League One. Now they're 4th in the Prem.
Looking ahead with positivity will bring you success in the future.
Southampton is an odd case though, there was a lot of political infighting with the board and the club changed ownership twice before it went into administration.
It was 2001 when they moved into the stadium, 2005 (I think) when relegated from the prem, and 2008 when they went into administration, owing a paltry 5 million to the bank, all of which was secured on the stadium.
Quote from: General on February 18, 2015, 08:55:24 AM
I work for an architectural recruitment/headhunting firm (although not for much longer) and a colleague has been tasked with finding people to work on the (re)development of Craven Cottage. He was under the impression though that it was more than just the riverside stand.
The architects are a firm called KSS.
One gets a tad wary whenever one hears an architectural firm and ground redevelopment in the same sentence. It wasn't long ago we had Bulstrode trying something similar, except he told us of his plans.
If Fulham stay up there is a greater incentive for Khan to improve our capacity - if Kit Symons and Ali Mack inadvertently take us down, the plans may change to relocation/ground sharing with QPR and luxury flats at the riverside!
I hoep my fears are unfounded.
The figures banded about for the redevelopment are around £8-10m, and they have to go out to re-tender and firm up costs - nobody as yet have been awarded the contract.....KSS (the architect) have and are doing the feasibility study, and the majority of steel work will be built off site and brought to site by barge, with a pontoon in the Thames servicing the site.......don't know yet when the job goes out for tender.......personally I think build it sooner rather than later......because if nothing else the build costs will be cheaper now than in say 5 years time, and it brings confidence to the club when attracting new players
Quote from: Scrumpy on February 18, 2015, 10:40:05 PM
Sorry Nose, Baszab and others, I cannot believe how dense you are being. All the time, we hear people whine that Shahid should invest more money in the team. He's a very rich man and should spend, spend, spend! BUT HE IS NOT ALLOWED TO UNDER THE LEGAL REQUIREMENTS OF FFP.
So how can he show his commitment to the Club? How can he spend his own hard earned dosh on the Club? How can he re-assure fans that he is committed? How can he invest massive amounts of money in order to generate an increase in revenues? How can he prove that he is committed to staying at Craven Cottage? What could he possibly do that is OUTSIDE THE RESTRICTIONS OF FFP? Jeez, the bloke can't seem to win with some fans.
You talk about lumbering the Club with a massive debt for the Stand, but how do you know how it will be financed? Who's to say that he won't do what Mo did and transfer loans into equity in a few years time?
For me, building the new stand is a massive, massive step forward by Fulham and a huge commitment from Shahid. Bring it on!
I totally agree.
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on February 19, 2015, 02:58:26 PM
The figures banded about for the redevelopment are around £8-10m, and they have to go out to re-tender and firm up costs - nobody as yet have been awarded the contract.....KSS (the architect) have and are doing the feasibility study, and the majority of steel work will be built off site and brought to site by barge, with a pontoon in the Thames servicing the site.......don't know yet when the job goes out for tender.......personally I think build it sooner rather than later......because if nothing else the build costs will be cheaper now than in say 5 years time, and it brings confidence to the club when attracting new players
This had occurred to me, too, but I think you're the first to post it.
Incidentally : SK - KS - KSS . . . is there something mystical in those letters ?
Quote from: Scrumpy on February 18, 2015, 10:40:05 PM
Sorry Nose, Baszab and others, I cannot believe how dense you are being. All the time, we hear people whine that Shahid should invest more money in the team. He's a very rich man and should spend, spend, spend! BUT HE IS NOT ALLOWED TO UNDER THE LEGAL REQUIREMENTS OF FFP.
So how can he show his commitment to the Club? How can he spend his own hard earned dosh on the Club? How can he re-assure fans that he is committed? How can he invest massive amounts of money in order to generate an increase in revenues? How can he prove that he is committed to staying at Craven Cottage? What could he possibly do that is OUTSIDE THE RESTRICTIONS OF FFP? Jeez, the bloke can't seem to win with some fans.
You talk about lumbering the Club with a massive debt for the Stand, but how do you know how it will be financed? Who's to say that he won't do what Mo did and transfer loans into equity in a few years time?
For me, building the new stand is a massive, massive step forward by Fulham and a huge commitment from Shahid. Bring it on!
:plus one: :plus one: 0001.jpeg
Quote from: Fulham1959 on February 19, 2015, 03:43:21 PM
Quote from: Scrumpy on February 18, 2015, 10:40:05 PM
Sorry Nose, Baszab and others, I cannot believe how dense you are being. All the time, we hear people whine that Shahid should invest more money in the team. He's a very rich man and should spend, spend, spend! BUT HE IS NOT ALLOWED TO UNDER THE LEGAL REQUIREMENTS OF FFP.
So how can he show his commitment to the Club? How can he spend his own hard earned dosh on the Club? How can he re-assure fans that he is committed? How can he invest massive amounts of money in order to generate an increase in revenues? How can he prove that he is committed to staying at Craven Cottage? What could he possibly do that is OUTSIDE THE RESTRICTIONS OF FFP? Jeez, the bloke can't seem to win with some fans.
You talk about lumbering the Club with a massive debt for the Stand, but how do you know how it will be financed? Who's to say that he won't do what Mo did and transfer loans into equity in a few years time?
For me, building the new stand is a massive, massive step forward by Fulham and a huge commitment from Shahid. Bring it on!
I totally agree.
I want what is best for the club in the long run and just as when eric miller financed the riverside stand and we were totally unsuccesful , that nearly cost us our very existence... different circumstances but same principle.
I do not need to know the detail of how the stand is financed but unless Kahn just underwrites it and there is no debt to the club in the long term, then this is a very risky deal that would threaten our very existence. This is the sort of thing that in five to ten years (possibly less) i will more than likely be saying, 'I told you so.'
Be careful what you wish for, a man like kahn has no long term family allegiance to fulham like we all have. He is a nice man and I am sure at the moment he will stick by us, but a down turn in his fortunes of his core business could see him drop us like a hot potato and he will seek to cut his losses at our expense. I have run my own reasonable size business for many years and I can assure you this project, if it goes ahead without being in the top flight is likely to represent a very big risk to our long term well being.
Players will not flock to the club because we have a shiny new stand, they will come if they think we will a) be succesful on the field and b) pay them a decent wage.
As I have said so many times before, I want what is best for us, and what is best is getting the team right AND ONLY THEN with genuine progress in hand will it be sensible to undertake this project.
As far as building costs being greater in 5 years, so will revenues so that should even out.
With all respect Nose, players have never flocked to the club, we work hard to get players (a lot at the end of their carears) in and nuture our own
Quote from: nose on February 19, 2015, 04:21:18 PM
Quote from: Fulham1959 on February 19, 2015, 03:43:21 PM
Quote from: Scrumpy on February 18, 2015, 10:40:05 PM
Sorry Nose, Baszab and others, I cannot believe how dense you are being. All the time, we hear people whine that Shahid should invest more money in the team. He's a very rich man and should spend, spend, spend! BUT HE IS NOT ALLOWED TO UNDER THE LEGAL REQUIREMENTS OF FFP.
So how can he show his commitment to the Club? How can he spend his own hard earned dosh on the Club? How can he re-assure fans that he is committed? How can he invest massive amounts of money in order to generate an increase in revenues? How can he prove that he is committed to staying at Craven Cottage? What could he possibly do that is OUTSIDE THE RESTRICTIONS OF FFP? Jeez, the bloke can't seem to win with some fans.
You talk about lumbering the Club with a massive debt for the Stand, but how do you know how it will be financed? Who's to say that he won't do what Mo did and transfer loans into equity in a few years time?
For me, building the new stand is a massive, massive step forward by Fulham and a huge commitment from Shahid. Bring it on!
I totally agree.
I want what is best for the club in the long run and just as when eric miller financed the riverside stand and we were totally unsuccesful , that nearly cost us our very existence... different circumstances but same principle.
I do not need to know the detail of how the stand is financed but unless Kahn just underwrites it and there is no debt to the club in the long term, then this is a very risky deal that would threaten our very existence. This is the sort of thing that in five to ten years (possibly less) i will more than likely be saying, 'I told you so.'
Be careful what you wish for, a man like kahn has no long term family allegiance to fulham like we all have. He is a nice man and I am sure at the moment he will stick by us, but a down turn in his fortunes of his core business could see him drop us like a hot potato and he will seek to cut his losses at our expense. I have run my own reasonable size business for many years and I can assure you this project, if it goes ahead without being in the top flight is likely to represent a very big risk to our long term well being.
Players will not flock to the club because we have a shiny new stand, they will come if they think we will a) be succesful on the field and b) pay them a decent wage.
As I have said so many times before, I want what is best for us, and what is best is getting the team right AND ONLY THEN with genuine progress in hand will it be sensible to undertake this project.
As far as building costs being greater in 5 years, so will revenues so that should even out.
Please explain how if Khan decides to cut his losses it will be at the club's expense (as long as the capital cost and any interest are proportional to the potential benefit even if it takes a few year's to get back to the PL).
Khan can't take the stand with him. He will have to find a buyer and that buyer will factor in any debt and ongoing losses in the price they offer.
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on February 19, 2015, 06:03:51 PM
Quote from: nose on February 19, 2015, 04:21:18 PM
Quote from: Fulham1959 on February 19, 2015, 03:43:21 PM
Quote from: Scrumpy on February 18, 2015, 10:40:05 PM
Sorry Nose, Baszab and others, I cannot believe how dense you are being. All the time, we hear people whine that Shahid should invest more money in the team. He's a very rich man and should spend, spend, spend! BUT HE IS NOT ALLOWED TO UNDER THE LEGAL REQUIREMENTS OF FFP.
So how can he show his commitment to the Club? How can he spend his own hard earned dosh on the Club? How can he re-assure fans that he is committed? How can he invest massive amounts of money in order to generate an increase in revenues? How can he prove that he is committed to staying at Craven Cottage? What could he possibly do that is OUTSIDE THE RESTRICTIONS OF FFP? Jeez, the bloke can't seem to win with some fans.
You talk about lumbering the Club with a massive debt for the Stand, but how do you know how it will be financed? Who's to say that he won't do what Mo did and transfer loans into equity in a few years time?
For me, building the new stand is a massive, massive step forward by Fulham and a huge commitment from Shahid. Bring it on!
I totally agree.
I want what is best for the club in the long run and just as when eric miller financed the riverside stand and we were totally unsuccesful , that nearly cost us our very existence... different circumstances but same principle.
I do not need to know the detail of how the stand is financed but unless Kahn just underwrites it and there is no debt to the club in the long term, then this is a very risky deal that would threaten our very existence. This is the sort of thing that in five to ten years (possibly less) i will more than likely be saying, 'I told you so.'
Be careful what you wish for, a man like kahn has no long term family allegiance to fulham like we all have. He is a nice man and I am sure at the moment he will stick by us, but a down turn in his fortunes of his core business could see him drop us like a hot potato and he will seek to cut his losses at our expense. I have run my own reasonable size business for many years and I can assure you this project, if it goes ahead without being in the top flight is likely to represent a very big risk to our long term well being.
Players will not flock to the club because we have a shiny new stand, they will come if they think we will a) be succesful on the field and b) pay them a decent wage.
As I have said so many times before, I want what is best for us, and what is best is getting the team right AND ONLY THEN with genuine progress in hand will it be sensible to undertake this project.
As far as building costs being greater in 5 years, so will revenues so that should even out.
Please explain how if Khan decides to cut his losses it will be at the club's expense (as long as the capital cost and any interest are proportional to the potential benefit even if it takes a few year's to get back to the PL).
Khan can't take the stand with him. He will have to find a buyer and that buyer will factor in any debt and ongoing losses in the price they offer.
sorry i didn't make it clear because i thought it obvious
whatever finacing arrangement mr khan employs, unless he pays out of his own pocket with no debt to the club, and i assure you that is the very least likely option, khan will have a massive debt owed to him by the club. if he chooses to call in that debt, then the future of the club becomes in doubt.... this really is very simple stuff that all the people that seem keen on the venture are failing to understand at even the most rudimentary level.
the reason khan wants to persue the new stand is not entirely clear and neither he nor the board have made it apparent to us what their long term strategy is. and from what we have seen so far there is absolutely nothing to suggest we are in anything but abject danger.... don't believe me, you don't have too. just remember this conversation in say five years time..... if we still are not in the prem or making a decent attempt at it see what happens... i unfortunately already know what the outcome will be... it really is that simple.....
for those that think building the stand is a wonderful idea,without having a team to match, good luck to you. If I ran my business like that i would not be able to afford a season ticket for a bus let alone watching my team.
Quote from: nose on February 19, 2015, 06:41:26 PM
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on February 19, 2015, 06:03:51 PM
Quote from: nose on February 19, 2015, 04:21:18 PM
Quote from: Fulham1959 on February 19, 2015, 03:43:21 PM
Quote from: Scrumpy on February 18, 2015, 10:40:05 PM
Sorry Nose, Baszab and others, I cannot believe how dense you are being. All the time, we hear people whine that Shahid should invest more money in the team. He's a very rich man and should spend, spend, spend! BUT HE IS NOT ALLOWED TO UNDER THE LEGAL REQUIREMENTS OF FFP.
So how can he show his commitment to the Club? How can he spend his own hard earned dosh on the Club? How can he re-assure fans that he is committed? How can he invest massive amounts of money in order to generate an increase in revenues? How can he prove that he is committed to staying at Craven Cottage? What could he possibly do that is OUTSIDE THE RESTRICTIONS OF FFP? Jeez, the bloke can't seem to win with some fans.
You talk about lumbering the Club with a massive debt for the Stand, but how do you know how it will be financed? Who's to say that he won't do what Mo did and transfer loans into equity in a few years time?
For me, building the new stand is a massive, massive step forward by Fulham and a huge commitment from Shahid. Bring it on!
I totally agree.
I want what is best for the club in the long run and just as when eric miller financed the riverside stand and we were totally unsuccesful , that nearly cost us our very existence... different circumstances but same principle.
I do not need to know the detail of how the stand is financed but unless Kahn just underwrites it and there is no debt to the club in the long term, then this is a very risky deal that would threaten our very existence. This is the sort of thing that in five to ten years (possibly less) i will more than likely be saying, 'I told you so.'
Be careful what you wish for, a man like kahn has no long term family allegiance to fulham like we all have. He is a nice man and I am sure at the moment he will stick by us, but a down turn in his fortunes of his core business could see him drop us like a hot potato and he will seek to cut his losses at our expense. I have run my own reasonable size business for many years and I can assure you this project, if it goes ahead without being in the top flight is likely to represent a very big risk to our long term well being.
Players will not flock to the club because we have a shiny new stand, they will come if they think we will a) be succesful on the field and b) pay them a decent wage.
As I have said so many times before, I want what is best for us, and what is best is getting the team right AND ONLY THEN with genuine progress in hand will it be sensible to undertake this project.
As far as building costs being greater in 5 years, so will revenues so that should even out.
Please explain how if Khan decides to cut his losses it will be at the club's expense (as long as the capital cost and any interest are proportional to the potential benefit even if it takes a few year's to get back to the PL).
Khan can't take the stand with him. He will have to find a buyer and that buyer will factor in any debt and ongoing losses in the price they offer.
sorry i didn't make it clear because i thought it obvious
whatever finacing arrangement mr khan employs, unless he pays out of his own pocket with no debt to the club, and i assure you that is the very least likely option, khan will have a massive debt owed to him by the club. if he chooses to call in that debt, then the future of the club becomes in doubt.... this really is very simple stuff that all the people that seem keen on the venture are failing to understand at even the most rudimentary level.
the reason khan wants to persue the new stand is not entirely clear and neither he nor the board have made it apparent to us what their long term strategy is. and from what we have seen so far there is absolutely nothing to suggest we are in anything but abject danger.... don't believe me, you don't have too. just remember this conversation in say five years time..... if we still are not in the prem or making a decent attempt at it see what happens... i unfortunately already know what the outcome will be... it really is that simple.....
for those that think building the stand is a wonderful idea,without having a team to match, good luck to you. If I ran my business like that i would not be able to afford a season ticket for a bus let alone watching my team.
So Khan calls in his debt, say £30m according to Baszab, against the club he owns forcing the club in to administration.
How does Khan then get back his £200m investment?
Quote from: nose on February 19, 2015, 06:41:26 PM
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on February 19, 2015, 06:03:51 PM
Quote from: nose on February 19, 2015, 04:21:18 PM
Quote from: Fulham1959 on February 19, 2015, 03:43:21 PM
Quote from: Scrumpy on February 18, 2015, 10:40:05 PM
Sorry Nose, Baszab and others, I cannot believe how dense you are being. All the time, we hear people whine that Shahid should invest more money in the team. He's a very rich man and should spend, spend, spend! BUT HE IS NOT ALLOWED TO UNDER THE LEGAL REQUIREMENTS OF FFP.
So how can he show his commitment to the Club? How can he spend his own hard earned dosh on the Club? How can he re-assure fans that he is committed? How can he invest massive amounts of money in order to generate an increase in revenues? How can he prove that he is committed to staying at Craven Cottage? What could he possibly do that is OUTSIDE THE RESTRICTIONS OF FFP? Jeez, the bloke can't seem to win with some fans.
You talk about lumbering the Club with a massive debt for the Stand, but how do you know how it will be financed? Who's to say that he won't do what Mo did and transfer loans into equity in a few years time?
For me, building the new stand is a massive, massive step forward by Fulham and a huge commitment from Shahid. Bring it on!
I totally agree.
I want what is best for the club in the long run and just as when eric miller financed the riverside stand and we were totally unsuccesful , that nearly cost us our very existence... different circumstances but same principle.
I do not need to know the detail of how the stand is financed but unless Kahn just underwrites it and there is no debt to the club in the long term, then this is a very risky deal that would threaten our very existence. This is the sort of thing that in five to ten years (possibly less) i will more than likely be saying, 'I told you so.'
Be careful what you wish for, a man like kahn has no long term family allegiance to fulham like we all have. He is a nice man and I am sure at the moment he will stick by us, but a down turn in his fortunes of his core business could see him drop us like a hot potato and he will seek to cut his losses at our expense. I have run my own reasonable size business for many years and I can assure you this project, if it goes ahead without being in the top flight is likely to represent a very big risk to our long term well being.
Players will not flock to the club because we have a shiny new stand, they will come if they think we will a) be succesful on the field and b) pay them a decent wage.
As I have said so many times before, I want what is best for us, and what is best is getting the team right AND ONLY THEN with genuine progress in hand will it be sensible to undertake this project.
As far as building costs being greater in 5 years, so will revenues so that should even out.
Please explain how if Khan decides to cut his losses it will be at the club's expense (as long as the capital cost and any interest are proportional to the potential benefit even if it takes a few year's to get back to the PL).
Khan can't take the stand with him. He will have to find a buyer and that buyer will factor in any debt and ongoing losses in the price they offer.
sorry i didn't make it clear because i thought it obvious
whatever finacing arrangement mr khan employs, unless he pays out of his own pocket with no debt to the club, and i assure you that is the very least likely option, khan will have a massive debt owed to him by the club. if he chooses to call in that debt, then the future of the club becomes in doubt.... this really is very simple stuff that all the people that seem keen on the venture are failing to understand at even the most rudimentary level.
the reason khan wants to persue the new stand is not entirely clear and neither he nor the board have made it apparent to us what their long term strategy is. and from what we have seen so far there is absolutely nothing to suggest we are in anything but abject danger.... don't believe me, you don't have too. just remember this conversation in say five years time..... if we still are not in the prem or making a decent attempt at it see what happens... i unfortunately already know what the outcome will be... it really is that simple.....
for those that think building the stand is a wonderful idea,without having a team to match, good luck to you. If I ran my business like that i would not be able to afford a season ticket for a bus let alone watching my team.
Of course its clear why they want the stand built.
Quote from: nose on February 19, 2015, 06:41:26 PM
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on February 19, 2015, 06:03:51 PM
Quote from: nose on February 19, 2015, 04:21:18 PM
Quote from: Fulham1959 on February 19, 2015, 03:43:21 PM
Quote from: Scrumpy on February 18, 2015, 10:40:05 PM
Sorry Nose, Baszab and others, I cannot believe how dense you are being. All the time, we hear people whine that Shahid should invest more money in the team. He's a very rich man and should spend, spend, spend! BUT HE IS NOT ALLOWED TO UNDER THE LEGAL REQUIREMENTS OF FFP.
So how can he show his commitment to the Club? How can he spend his own hard earned dosh on the Club? How can he re-assure fans that he is committed? How can he invest massive amounts of money in order to generate an increase in revenues? How can he prove that he is committed to staying at Craven Cottage? What could he possibly do that is OUTSIDE THE RESTRICTIONS OF FFP? Jeez, the bloke can't seem to win with some fans.
You talk about lumbering the Club with a massive debt for the Stand, but how do you know how it will be financed? Who's to say that he won't do what Mo did and transfer loans into equity in a few years time?
For me, building the new stand is a massive, massive step forward by Fulham and a huge commitment from Shahid. Bring it on!
I totally agree.
I want what is best for the club in the long run and just as when eric miller financed the riverside stand and we were totally unsuccesful , that nearly cost us our very existence... different circumstances but same principle.
I do not need to know the detail of how the stand is financed but unless Kahn just underwrites it and there is no debt to the club in the long term, then this is a very risky deal that would threaten our very existence. This is the sort of thing that in five to ten years (possibly less) i will more than likely be saying, 'I told you so.'
Be careful what you wish for, a man like kahn has no long term family allegiance to fulham like we all have. He is a nice man and I am sure at the moment he will stick by us, but a down turn in his fortunes of his core business could see him drop us like a hot potato and he will seek to cut his losses at our expense. I have run my own reasonable size business for many years and I can assure you this project, if it goes ahead without being in the top flight is likely to represent a very big risk to our long term well being.
Players will not flock to the club because we have a shiny new stand, they will come if they think we will a) be succesful on the field and b) pay them a decent wage.
As I have said so many times before, I want what is best for us, and what is best is getting the team right AND ONLY THEN with genuine progress in hand will it be sensible to undertake this project.
As far as building costs being greater in 5 years, so will revenues so that should even out.
Please explain how if Khan decides to cut his losses it will be at the club's expense (as long as the capital cost and any interest are proportional to the potential benefit even if it takes a few year's to get back to the PL).
Khan can't take the stand with him. He will have to find a buyer and that buyer will factor in any debt and ongoing losses in the price they offer.
sorry i didn't make it clear because i thought it obvious
whatever finacing arrangement mr khan employs, unless he pays out of his own pocket with no debt to the club, and i assure you that is the very least likely option, khan will have a massive debt owed to him by the club. if he chooses to call in that debt, then the future of the club becomes in doubt.... this really is very simple stuff that all the people that seem keen on the venture are failing to understand at even the most rudimentary level.
the reason khan wants to persue the new stand is not entirely clear and neither he nor the board have made it apparent to us what their long term strategy is. and from what we have seen so far there is absolutely nothing to suggest we are in anything but abject danger.... don't believe me, you don't have too. just remember this conversation in say five years time..... if we still are not in the prem or making a decent attempt at it see what happens... i unfortunately already know what the outcome will be... it really is that simple.....
for those that think building the stand is a wonderful idea,without having a team to match, good luck to you. If I ran my business like that i would not be able to afford a season ticket for a bus let alone watching my team.
Nose, I too have run successful businesses and don't really see WHERE you are coming from. His business empire is worth over $4,5B USA will continue to buy cars and there are not many out there that can compete with SK's companies, so a downturn is highly unlikely. He has on more than one occasion stated his intention of making us a premiership club, but one that is sustainable within its budgets.
If you had run your businesses like Mr Khan, you would own FFC, not pay to go and watch them Sir..
The advantage of building the stadium while we are not in the Premier is that attendances have already dropped so closing the riverside stand would not have such a big impact.
building now or soon would mean that if we got promotion back into the Premier the stadium would already be of a higher standard and capacity would be greater, allowing extra revenue to be generated from the higher crowds generated in premier.
What makes us think that we will get back to the premiership any time soon. I will be amazed if this happens in the next few seasons and will be even more amazed if the stand is built within that time. I think we are being strung along on promises
It would be great to have a brand new stand................I just don't get the timing of it as we watch our beloved club slip down the toilet.
I am just not comfortable with the current owner..........so far - I can think of many ways to set up a web of companies and build the stand in another corporation financed by loans/onerous interest payments- in case Khan wants to walk away from FFC after relegation to the third tier and take a haircut on his investments
And for those suggesting that if we don't like it we should buy the club....may I recommend to those slagging off the manager that they go and get their coaching badges and apply for the job !!
Quote from: nose on February 19, 2015, 06:41:26 PM
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on February 19, 2015, 06:03:51 PM
Quote from: nose on February 19, 2015, 04:21:18 PM
Quote from: Fulham1959 on February 19, 2015, 03:43:21 PM
Quote from: Scrumpy on February 18, 2015, 10:40:05 PM
Sorry Nose, Baszab and others, I cannot believe how dense you are being. All the time, we hear people whine that Shahid should invest more money in the team. He's a very rich man and should spend, spend, spend! BUT HE IS NOT ALLOWED TO UNDER THE LEGAL REQUIREMENTS OF FFP.
So how can he show his commitment to the Club? How can he spend his own hard earned dosh on the Club? How can he re-assure fans that he is committed? How can he invest massive amounts of money in order to generate an increase in revenues? How can he prove that he is committed to staying at Craven Cottage? What could he possibly do that is OUTSIDE THE RESTRICTIONS OF FFP? Jeez, the bloke can't seem to win with some fans.
You talk about lumbering the Club with a massive debt for the Stand, but how do you know how it will be financed? Who's to say that he won't do what Mo did and transfer loans into equity in a few years time?
For me, building the new stand is a massive, massive step forward by Fulham and a huge commitment from Shahid. Bring it on!
I totally agree.
I want what is best for the club in the long run and just as when eric miller financed the riverside stand and we were totally unsuccesful , that nearly cost us our very existence... different circumstances but same principle.
I do not need to know the detail of how the stand is financed but unless Kahn just underwrites it and there is no debt to the club in the long term, then this is a very risky deal that would threaten our very existence. This is the sort of thing that in five to ten years (possibly less) i will more than likely be saying, 'I told you so.'
Be careful what you wish for, a man like kahn has no long term family allegiance to fulham like we all have. He is a nice man and I am sure at the moment he will stick by us, but a down turn in his fortunes of his core business could see him drop us like a hot potato and he will seek to cut his losses at our expense. I have run my own reasonable size business for many years and I can assure you this project, if it goes ahead without being in the top flight is likely to represent a very big risk to our long term well being.
Players will not flock to the club because we have a shiny new stand, they will come if they think we will a) be succesful on the field and b) pay them a decent wage.
As I have said so many times before, I want what is best for us, and what is best is getting the team right AND ONLY THEN with genuine progress in hand will it be sensible to undertake this project.
As far as building costs being greater in 5 years, so will revenues so that should even out.
Please explain how if Khan decides to cut his losses it will be at the club's expense (as long as the capital cost and any interest are proportional to the potential benefit even if it takes a few year's to get back to the PL).
Khan can't take the stand with him. He will have to find a buyer and that buyer will factor in any debt and ongoing losses in the price they offer.
sorry i didn't make it clear because i thought it obvious
whatever finacing arrangement mr khan employs, unless he pays out of his own pocket with no debt to the club, and i assure you that is the very least likely option, khan will have a massive debt owed to him by the club. if he chooses to call in that debt, then the future of the club becomes in doubt.... this really is very simple stuff that all the people that seem keen on the venture are failing to understand at even the most rudimentary level.
the reason khan wants to persue the new stand is not entirely clear and neither he nor the board have made it apparent to us what their long term strategy is. and from what we have seen so far there is absolutely nothing to suggest we are in anything but abject danger.... don't believe me, you don't have too. just remember this conversation in say five years time..... if we still are not in the prem or making a decent attempt at it see what happens... i unfortunately already know what the outcome will be... it really is that simple.....
for those that think building the stand is a wonderful idea,without having a team to match, good luck to you. If I ran my business like that i would not be able to afford a season ticket for a bus let alone watching my team.
Sorry mate that is just not true. Khan has said repeatedly that he sees the development of a new stand as a way of bringing in additional revenue via match day corporate stuff additional match day income and non match day revenue from various items like restautants bars and stuff. It will then support us v FFP.
Strategic, long-term projects such as this don't happen overnight. I think it is naive to think that you can just wait to see how results go and then decide to start work. Contractors aren't going to standby awaiting a call to start and materials need to be procured well in advance etc.
From planning to completion, such a project takes years, not moths and it isn't possible to stop and start, depending on how the team is doing. Our owner had to make a commitment to the rebuild or scrap it for the foreseeable future. I for one am happy that he is steadfast and sees the bigger picture.
As for SK calling in our debt and breaking us, this simply makes no sense whatsoever. This would be self-defeating and he would face a loss of his initial investment, plus whatever else he has funded since e.g. The Greek and supermac. If he wanted out, surely he would do the same as MAF and find a buyer, albeit at a knockdown price but at least cutting his losses.
It's easy to scaremonger but, to date, I've seen no evidence to suggest that SK has jumped in with both feet and intends to be here for the long-haul. Plans and sentiments can of course change but until his actions suggest otherwise, I say back him.
p.s. If you think about it, a decision not to proceed with the development would be much more worrying!
Quote from: millsy on February 19, 2015, 10:23:55 PM
..... such a project takes years, not moths.......
So the club isn't in the hands of fly-by-nights as we all feared after all....?
Quote from: Baszab on February 19, 2015, 10:05:25 PM
It would be great to have a brand new stand................I just don't get the timing of it as we watch our beloved club slip down the toilet.
I am just not comfortable with the current owner..........so far - I can think of many ways to set up a web of companies and build the stand in another corporation financed by loans/onerous interest payments- in case Khan wants to walk away from FFC after relegation to the third tier and take a haircut on his investments
And for those suggesting that if we don't like it we should buy the club....may I recommend to those slagging off the manager that they go and get their coaching badges and apply for the job !!
Please explain how this financing works. Let's assume your costs of £30m plus an interest rate of 50% to a Khan company. How does Khan 'walk away'? Presumably we either go into administration or a new buyer comes forward. How is Khan not adding to his 'haircut' by financing the redevelopment?
After appointment of Riggs statement from Khan
"This reorganisation will also permit our CEO, Alistair Mackintosh, to train his efforts on matters that are immensely important to the present and future of Fulham Football Club. To be a sustainable club we must ensure that Craven Cottage and our training facilities are world class. The renovation and reinvention of the Riverside Stand is a signature and historic project for your Club, and it requires expert leadership to see it through. Alistair has my complete trust and confidence to oversee this initiative as well as other critically important endeavours, including the potential expansion of our Motspur Park training site. These projects along with growing the Fulham brand through our commercial efforts will support our goal to ensure that we remain – and always will be – a stable and successful Club."
This pretty much means Mackintosh will be dealing with stadium development.
