I know that Bettinelli has saved us many times this season. Why did he decide to punch the ball away from one of their corners when we were leading 3-1 He could have caught the ball and set up McCormack who was waving his arms at him. His bad punch led to their second goal.
Yes. It's called a 'mistake' or 'an error of judgement'.
Being human, goalkeepers make them from time to time. When they do it often leads to a goal for the opposition because of the vital nature of the goalkeeping position.
Younger keepers tend to make them slightly more often than older, more experienced ones. Although if they continue making them on a regular basis they tend to stop being goalkeepers at all.
If you are interested in really serious errors made by goalkeepers more experienced than Bettinelli, I refer you to those made by Courtois, Federici, Guzan or Hart in recent days.
Poor decision making is one of the things that young keepers have to get over. That being said, it was a simple and uncontested catch and should have been an obvious decision for him to make.
I thought he had a portion of blame on all 3 goals, he has been great this year on the whole, but the first for me should have been saved, the second as you mention he should have caught and the third he was in no mans land. The third us maybe a little harsh but he should not have come off the line to far he was never going to get the cross
He is young and these things happen a sign of a decent keeper will be that he learns and eradicates the errors
He was arguably at fault for all their goals yesterday.
1st one he should've stopped, 2nd one he should've caught and 3rd was poor positioning for that header to go over him.
Keeper's will always make mistakes though and he is of course still learning. The brightest spark of our season and has been superb for the majority so don't take this as me criticising him. Do think he needs a better experienced keeper compared to Kiraly to help him develop
Quote from: westcliff white on April 26, 2015, 10:13:50 PM
I thought he had a portion of blame on all 3 goals, he has been great this year on the whole, but the first for me should have been saved, the second as you mention he should have caught and the third he was in no mans land. The third us maybe a little harsh but he should not have come off the line to far he was never going to get the cross
He is young and these things happen a sign of a decent keeper will be that he learns and eradicates the errors
Haha basically said exactly the same as you, great minds..
Quote from: cmg on April 26, 2015, 10:13:14 PM
Yes. It's called a 'mistake' or 'an error of judgement'.
Being human, goalkeepers make them from time to time. When they do it often leads to a goal for the opposition because of the vital nature of the goalkeeping position.
Younger keepers tend to make them slightly more often than older, more experienced ones. Although if they continue making them on a regular basis they tend to stop being goalkeepers at all.
If you are interested in really serious errors made by goalkeepers more experienced than Bettinelli, I refer you to those made by Courtois, Federici, Guzan or Hart in recent days.
+1
Why did he decide to dive a certain way on his many penalty saves this season? Split second reactions! Some you get right, some you balls up. That's football.
Why do outfield players try and play a first time ball rather than control it because they had more time? Decision making!! Something that gets better with experience!
Quote from: leonffc on April 26, 2015, 10:17:30 PM
Quote from: cmg on April 26, 2015, 10:13:14 PM
Yes. It's called a 'mistake' or 'an error of judgement'.
Being human, goalkeepers make them from time to time. When they do it often leads to a goal for the opposition because of the vital nature of the goalkeeping position.
Younger keepers tend to make them slightly more often than older, more experienced ones. Although if they continue making them on a regular basis they tend to stop being goalkeepers at all.
If you are interested in really serious errors made by goalkeepers more experienced than Bettinelli, I refer you to those made by Courtois, Federici, Guzan or Hart in recent days.
+1
Why did he decide to dive a certain way on his many penalty saves this season? Split second reactions! Some you get right, some you balls up. That's football.
Why do outfield players try and play a first time ball rather than control it because they had more time? Decision making!! Something that gets better with experience!
...what Leon said, goalkeepers make mistakes and it is memorable as it often leads to a goal, outfield players can make the same number, or more mistakes and are covered by their colleagues and the errors quickly forgotten...
The good outweighs the bad... yes he isn't perfect but he would look loads better if he had a confident/experienced defence (and midfield doing there defensive job) in front of him. Case in point, that punch wouldn't have been so glaring if anyone had ran out to close down the man on the ball.
And the 3rd goal wasn't bad positioning, it was just a good header. If a keeper is on the line it gives players much more of an angle to shoot at, he was just playing the percentages.
The trouble is, he is young, in the first team, with no competition. No one is fighting him for his spot. With another decent GK brought in, it will aid Betts in his development.
Marcus has the makings of becoming a really good goal keeper, but it's clear as day the lad lacks experience right now. I don't buy all this bad defense rubbish, it's partly to blame yes, but Marcus could take a lot of pressure off our defense by coming out to claim balls. It's not a coincidence that we concede from every set piece or corner, Marcus either remains routed to the spot, flaps or tries to punch which is part of his game he needs to improve.
Several points here. First of all I was one of a few who said earlier in the season that he isn't a Championship winning keeper. At least not yet. He is a good shot stopper. He is appalling at commanding his area. This may be to do with the confusion in front of him. He may be a case of a player playing better when he has better players around him.
Yesterday he was at fault for all the goals. There is no doubt in my mind about that. He had an awful day. His positioning and his reactions were just off.
I still maintain he is a good shot stopper. But am still doubtful he is going to be anything more than that. However he still remains one of only three or four players throughout the season who we can be really pleased with.
Bettiinelli was only one of the contributors to the mistakes leading to the three goals.
For the first the midfield let the attacker run through, play a one-two and have a free shot on goal. For the second Rodallega was slow to chase down the ball punched out to nearly the touch line and hamper the cross and the central defender was on the wrong side of the attacker and failed to put in a challenge so the attacker had a free header. For the third it was another free header with no pressure from the defence.
Yes, Bettinelli might have done better for each goal but the other players around him left him exposed for each goal.
no keeper under the age of 28 or so can be a complete project. I thought he was at fault for the first two goals, but he'll learn from those mistakes and profit by them. He's a fine young prospect, but he's still under development.
Many keepers would have conceded the first goal, we've just come to expect Betts to save ones like that because he's been so good this season. As for the positioning and decision-making, that is one of the things that comes with experience and the reason why keepers normally play into their late 30s or even 40s.
I think we've unearthed a real diamond there and just puzzled why Felix initially played Joronen.
Quote from: Lighthouse on April 26, 2015, 11:38:52 PM
Several points here. First of all I was one of a few who said earlier in the season that he isn't a Championship winning keeper. At least not yet. He is a good shot stopper. He is appalling at commanding his area. This may be to do with the confusion in front of him. He may be a case of a player playing better when he has better players around him.
Yesterday he was at fault for all the goals. There is no doubt in my mind about that. He had an awful day. His positioning and his reactions were just off.
I still maintain he is a good shot stopper. But am still doubtful he is going to be anything more than that. However he still remains one of only three or four players throughout the season who we can be really pleased with.
Dont be shocked but I totally agree about Betts, he was to blame
for all 3 goals, not the first time he has had a mare, but beeen papered over by
a couple of good saves..Still a great prospect though.
The one good thing was the Chelsea scout watching wouldnt have recorded
a good report..
I can forgive his "mare" against Boro. He has stepped up to be our No. 1 & has performed heroics behind a dreadful defence. He has a lot to learn but am confident that he will become a top keeper. We just need a proper No. 2
I agree he makes mistakes, the problem is when a keeper makes a mistake it nearly always ends in a goal, unlike an outfield player. Luckily for us Middlesboro's keeper made a big one at the end.
Quote from: Holders on April 27, 2015, 05:59:27 AM
I think we've unearthed a real diamond there and just puzzled why Felix initially played Joronen.
I'm not a betting man (actually, I am) but I would be prepared to have a fairly hefty wager that this was not the only thing that Felix did that puzzled you. :doh:
But what a wonderful punt he made to Ross down the right wing. Their goalie made a stunning save to prevent Hugo scoring from the cross. More of those please!
I really like Bettinell, but he does concede quite alot of long range goals. As I mentioned on another thread, it must be a concentration or positional adjustment that is needed
Quote from: FFCAli on April 27, 2015, 09:32:54 AM
But what a wonderful punt he made to Ross down the right wing. Their goalie made a stunning save to prevent Hugo scoring from the cross. More of those please!
Yup - Haynes couldn't have done it better....and Johnny was no goalkeeper. (Actually he'd probably have been pretty good in goal - he was a top class wicketkeeper.)
Betts has done well this year but there is massive difference between that and him being a top keeper in the championship . Its not criticism of him , he is young and inexperienced . Of course the defensive in front of him is relevant but that cuts both ways , because a poor defence usually doesn't have much faith in its keeper. So without mixing up such issues we need to sign a keeper that is top championship class that can compete for the no 1 spot . A reality check for Marcus and at the same time the way he is most likely to progress.
As far as I have been able to see from various angles on TV/videos, the shot for the first goal hit the ground just in front of him - not at all easy to save. I don't class that as a mistake.
The punch before the second one was an aberration which Betts probably can't even explain himself. My guess is that he was in a mindset to punch the ball even before the corner was taken and just carried through his intention. It comes under the "what on earth was I thinking?" scenario. I don't see he was at fault for the third, either. Yes, he needs some real competition but I'd be more than happy to see him start next season as our No. 1.
Goalkeeping has always fascinated me (well, for the last 57 years or so) and I played in goal as a youth but only at the lowest level.
Betten-not-on-your-nelli saved his worst performance of the season for our last home match. He has a lot to learn but shows more promise than Stockdale did.
But generally 'keepers only blossom in their latter footballing years going into the late 30s or even over 40 years of age. If Fulham are serious about going up next season we need an experienced but top drawer goalie (which rules out Kiraly and his pyjamas).
I predicted Watford to win this league because I said "They have the best goalkeeper with Heurelio Gomes". Granted Gomes has some "Bruce Grobbelar" moments but he pulls off spectacular saves and the proof is in the pudding.
Marc Schwarzer probably kept Fulham out of relegation many seasons and losing him was also a major factor for us going down (thanks to Jol). But Bettenelli is definitely NOT the answer.
Quote from: colinwhite on April 27, 2015, 10:29:48 AM
Betts has done well this year but there is massive difference between that and him being a top keeper in the championship . Its not criticism of him , he is young and inexperienced . Of course the defensive in front of him is relevant but that cuts both ways , because a poor defence usually doesn't have much faith in its keeper. So without mixing up such issues we need to sign a keeper that is top championship class that can compete for the no 1 spot . A reality check for Marcus and at the same time the way he is most likely to progress.
Agree with this. I'd like to see us sign someone of the ilk of Gomes, Bogdan, or Scott Carson. That way, whoever was between the sticks would need to be right on their toes to keep their place. It would benefit everyone.
Quote from: Lighthouse on April 26, 2015, 11:38:52 PM
Several points here. First of all I was one of a few who said earlier in the season that he isn't a Championship winning keeper. At least not yet. He is a good shot stopper. He is appalling at commanding his area. This may be to do with the confusion in front of him. He may be a case of a player playing better when he has better players around him.
Yesterday he was at fault for all the goals. There is no doubt in my mind about that. He had an awful day. His positioning and his reactions were just off.
I still maintain he is a good shot stopper. But am still doubtful he is going to be anything more than that. However he still remains one of only three or four players throughout the season who we can be really pleased with.
Absolutely he has a lot to work on but has saved us many times this year. I was having the conversation with my old man on the way home, he's adamant we should stick with him for next year but for me we need an experienced goalkeeper if we are to push for promotion.
Betts has had an awful defense for the vast majority of this year but does nothing to command his area and please someone teach him how to set up a wall. He flaps at crosses and suffers from lapses of concentration that you just can't afford if you want to push for promotion. I'm sorry but I'd look to bring someone in atleast it only adds one more for the need pile along with a left back, two centre halves a centre mid two wingers and a forward!
Marcus is 6 years younger than Stockdale , or put another way thats somewhere between 250 and 300 games !
Theres not a lot to choose between him and Stockdale now, with another 300 games under his belt he is going to be a far superior keeper to David Stockdale.
Quote from: HatterDon on April 27, 2015, 03:17:25 AM
no keeper under the age of 28 or so can be a complete project.
....yeah, De Gea and Courtios are nowhere near reaching their potential....
Bettinelli will be great for us next season, the experience of this campaign can only be good for him. Although I think we need to sign some decent backup (not Kiraly) to keep him on his toes and improve.
Quote from: Nick Bateman on April 27, 2015, 07:01:23 PM
Betten-not-on-your-nelli saved his worst performance of the season for our last home match. He has a lot to learn but shows more promise than Stockdale did.
But generally 'keepers only blossom in their latter footballing years going into the late 30s or even over 40 years of age. If Fulham are serious about going up next season we need an experienced but top drawer goalie (which rules out Kiraly and his pyjamas).
I predicted Watford to win this league because I said "They have the best goalkeeper with Heurelio Gomes". Granted Gomes has some "Bruce Grobbelar" moments but he pulls off spectacular saves and the proof is in the pudding.
Marc Schwarzer probably kept Fulham out of relegation many seasons and losing him was also a major factor for us going down (thanks to Jol). But Bettenelli is definitely NOT the answer.
Sorry I don't buy the argument that goalkeepers HAVE to be experienced. Casillas played in a Champions league final at 21, Neuer was Germany's number 1 at 24/25, if they're good enough they're old enough, simple as.
And is this the same Heurelio Gomes who had an absolute nightmare at Spurs? Yes he's made some fantastic saves this season, but I think Watford's success has been built more around a solid defence than an outstanding goalkeeper.
Quote from: FulhamFan2 on April 28, 2015, 01:17:52 PM
Sorry I don't buy the argument that goalkeepers HAVE to be experienced. Casillas played in a Champions league final at 21, Neuer was Germany's number 1 at 24/25, if they're good enough they're old enough, simple as.
And is this the same Heurelio Gomes who had an absolute nightmare at Spurs? Yes he's made some fantastic saves this season, but I think Watford's success has been built more around a solid defence than an outstanding goalkeeper.
Experience does help any position but in goal one doesn't have to run around as much so one can gain more experience than an outfield player and be in one's prime.
As for Gomes, tell it to an Arsenal supporter, when he had such an outstanding match he was the main reason Spurs have their only win at the Emirates ever! His howler against us was after Harry Rednapp joked about his black eye saying, "We'll go for a Chinese (takeaway) later". I believe he was deliberately sloppy in protest for having to play with a sore eye from the previous match.
The Arsenal supporting media made the most of this and ran a campaign to undermine his confidence, and then he was left out by managers trying to drive him out of the club. As I said, I felt Watford would have a great chance to win the Championship because they had a top-drawer goalie and that is the MOST IMPORTANT position in a team.
Fulham are a country mile away.
Tony Macedo was about the same age as Marcus when he made his debut. He too made errors in his first season but went on to become, what I and quite a few others, think was our greatest ever keeper. I think Marcus has the same potential as the great Tony Macedo.
Quote from: Peabody on April 28, 2015, 02:16:43 PM
Tony Macedo was about the same age as Marcus when he made his debut. He too made errors in his first season but went on to become, what I and quite a few others, think was our greatest ever keeper. I think Marcus has the same potential as the great Tony Macedo.
Macedo was a MAN. Betten-not-on-your-nelli is a BOY! They are both Italians, the similarly ends there Mr.P.
Even the best player in the world has "nightmare" matches from time to time.
Either poor decisions, or just sometimes having a bad game.
Betts, IMO, has kept us up this season, and I look forward to seeing him improve next season. I hope he stays.
Quote from: Nick Bateman on April 28, 2015, 02:33:18 PM
Quote from: Peabody on April 28, 2015, 02:16:43 PM
Tony Macedo was about the same age as Marcus when he made his debut. He too made errors in his first season but went on to become, what I and quite a few others, think was our greatest ever keeper. I think Marcus has the same potential as the great Tony Macedo.
Macedo was a MAN. Betten-not-on-your-nelli is a BOY! They are both Italians, the similarly ends there Mr.P.
Neither are Italian. Macedo was born in Gibraltar, Bettinelli is English (and has played for England Under 21s). Macedo became a great keeper, with performances in his early 20s similar to Betts' performances this year. Betts will become a first class keeper, with reasonable odds on him playing for England.
No need to mock our younger developing players
Nick, you really do not know what you are talking about do you? Tony Macedo was doing his National Service when he made his debut, he was in the RAF and stationed in Germany, he was born in Gibralter but played for England under 23s. As far as I know, Betss is English but around the same age as Macedo was. Please Nick do your research before you make such outlandish statements.
