I am a bit of a worrier at times.
This isn't a Kit Out thread. It is a - I am worried about the possible implications of the club's decision to keep Kit on thread.
Why? Well actually there are quite a few prospective managers who have become available this summer that could be a really good fit for our club right now:
- Sam Allardyce
- Di Matteo
- Paul Lambert
- Nigel Atkins
- Paul Clement
- mark Waburton
- Klopp ;)
Ok, so not all of the above may want to manage here or may not be suitable in the eyes of some. but that is not my point.
My concern is say come October/November - if Kit were to underperform or fail to meet his targets, then some of these names may be off the market by then and we miss out.
It is about responding to the market, taking decisive action to secure an asset before someone else does.
Perhaps the club has already considered the above options and none are interested. Perhaps the club deem Kit to be a better asset (or better value asset) to invest in right now.
Perhaps better suited managers will become available later this year - but then they will have the excuse of not having a pre-season/transfer window.
I know the decision has been made now and that we have to look forward so my questions are:
1) Should I stop worrying (yes)
2) What do you think Kit's strengths will be moving forward?
3) What improvements will we see at the start of next season?
4) When will Kit's first appraisal be (September, January, end of next season?)
It does seem to be "be careful what you wish for"
I was one of many on here who was clamering for Kit's appointment
We need a steady hand on the tiller and we need to get up this season and I think Kit will be found wanting(and I will be very happy to be proven wrong)
Going up next season is more important then anything else(in my opinion)
Concerned and worried about next season? Yep me too mate,me too.
"I know the decision has been made now"
Where is the definitive evidence for that? I live in hope that discussions are going on with at least one of those on your list.
Obviously it is just hope, as I have no information - "inside" or other - that they are. I suppose at depth I nourish the hope that Khan is smarter than the evidence of his decisions so far at Fulham suggest. If he is he won't want to start the season with Kit as manager when there are others out there and potentially available where the evidence suggests they would be overwhelmingly more likely than Kit to get us promoted.
Quote from: Oakeshott on May 28, 2015, 12:38:39 PM
"I know the decision has been made now"
Where is the definitive evidence for that? I live in hope that discussions are going on with at least one of those on your list.
Obviously it is just hope, as I have no information - "inside" or other - that they are. I suppose at depth I nourish the hope that Khan is smarter than the evidence of his decisions so far at Fulham suggest. If he is he won't want to start the season with Kit as manager when there are others out there and potentially available where the evidence suggests they would be overwhelmingly more likely than Kit to get us promoted.
Was the 18min video on the offal not enough evidence?
kits first appraisal should be after 7 league games. a whole year in charge and the same amount of games felix was given. hopefully we will have 21 points then
Rafa Benitez is available now too...
Fulhamish to wait until all the good candidates have gone and then finally realise we need to replace KS.
In answer to the original 5 questions.
1/ If we had brought in any manager on the list. What we would do if come October/ November we still looked disorganised? So keep worrying whoever the manager is.
2/ Kit knows the weakness of the team and has made it clear we need improvement. He is already working with the management team in bringing in the right players. A new manager may well make the same mistake as many on here did and think the squad we have looks good with a bit of clever organisation. They would be wrong.
3/ I would hope players with pace in the wide areas and midfield can be brought in. A full back or two and a central midfield player.
4/ Kit should be given to December to see how things are. If we see no improvement then fine. But I am sure we will begin see a team in we can at least be proud of again.
Quote from: fulhamben on May 28, 2015, 12:47:24 PM
kits first appraisal should be after 7 league games. a whole year in charge and the same amount of games felix was given. hopefully we will have 21 points then
curious. what would be your criteria for that decision?
if the club has more than 11 points, would that be good enough? that'd put the team on course to finish very near the playoff places. if we were close to that point total, would you give him more time to prove that his team will improve over the course of the season? is that a fair metric?
really interested to hear how people will define success for Kit and the team next season.
Quote from: ToodlesMcToot on May 28, 2015, 02:35:46 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on May 28, 2015, 12:47:24 PM
kits first appraisal should be after 7 league games. a whole year in charge and the same amount of games felix was given. hopefully we will have 21 points then
curious. what would be your criteria for that decision?
if the club has more than 11 points, would that be good enough? that'd put the team on course to finish very near the playoff places. if we were close to that point total, would you give him more time to prove that his team will improve over the course of the season? is that a fair metric?
really interested to hear how people will define success for Kit and the team next season.
There's some will call for his head if we have less than 30 points after ten games, others will be happy if we are mid-table. Success for me would be looking like we deserve to win, even if the luck goes against us on a couple of occasions. A team that looks organised, hungry and capable of basic defending.
Quote from: Lighthouse on May 28, 2015, 02:31:13 PM
In answer to the original 5 questions.
1/ If we had brought in any manager on the list. What we would do if come October/ November we still looked disorganised? So keep worrying whoever the manager is.
2/ Kit knows the weakness of the team and has made it clear we need improvement. He is already working with the management team in bringing in the right players. A new manager may well make the same mistake as many on here did and think the squad we have looks good with a bit of clever organisation. They would be wrong.
3/ I would hope players with pace in the wide areas and midfield can be brought in. A full back or two and a central midfield player.
4/ Kit should be given to December to see how things are. If we see no improvement then fine. But I am sure we will begin see a team in we can at least be proud of again.
I hope you don't mind responding to these answers:
1) I think that is a fair point
2) Kit has purported to know the weaknesses of our team but I have not actually seen any evidence of him addressing those weaknesses during his tenure to date. Some of those weaknesses will be addressed with additions to the team yes. But he did have a January window to stop the goals leaking, to bring in some width/pace and to sure up our midfield. I don't think he/the club did a very good job of it.
3) I am concerned that Kit may not be able to draw the better players to the club given his relatively low profile, lack of experience and poor performance to date. I think if players are approached by a number of clubs - a manager with a good rep will be a big draw for them (along with salary and club profile of course) especially if they want to improve.
4) Is December perhaps a little too late if we don't improve? Many people argued our season was ruined after 7 games with Magarth...
Quote from: fulhamben on May 28, 2015, 12:47:24 PM
kits first appraisal should be after 7 league games. a whole year in charge and the same amount of games felix was given. hopefully we will have 21 points then
We have to hit the ground running... As does Kit... And I'd say he needs to have 2/3 wins in first five, 11 after 7 and anything less than 15 after ten could be an issue.
We can't be playing catchup, so need to be on at least 1.5ppg to start with.
Quote from: ToodlesMcToot on May 28, 2015, 02:35:46 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on May 28, 2015, 12:47:24 PM
kits first appraisal should be after 7 league games. a whole year in charge and the same amount of games felix was given. hopefully we will have 21 points then
curious. what would be your criteria for that decision?
if the club has more than 11 points, would that be good enough? that'd put the team on course to finish very near the playoff places. if we were close to that point total, would you give him more time to prove that his team will improve over the course of the season? is that a fair metric?
really interested to hear how people will define success for Kit and the team next season.
While I just said 11 from seven should be about the minimum, it's also about a plan and performance. Without that we won't have chance by just blagging it like we did at times this season gone.
Quote from: alexbishop on May 28, 2015, 03:31:14 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on May 28, 2015, 02:31:13 PM
In answer to the original 5 questions.
1/ If we had brought in any manager on the list. What we would do if come October/ November we still looked disorganised? So keep worrying whoever the manager is.
2/ Kit knows the weakness of the team and has made it clear we need improvement. He is already working with the management team in bringing in the right players. A new manager may well make the same mistake as many on here did and think the squad we have looks good with a bit of clever organisation. They would be wrong.
3/ I would hope players with pace in the wide areas and midfield can be brought in. A full back or two and a central midfield player.
4/ Kit should be given to December to see how things are. If we see no improvement then fine. But I am sure we will begin see a team in we can at least be proud of again.
I hope you don't mind responding to these answers:
1) I think that is a fair point
2) Kit has purported to know the weaknesses of our team but I have not actually seen any evidence of him addressing those weaknesses during his tenure to date. Some of those weaknesses will be addressed with additions to the team yes. But he did have a January window to stop the goals leaking, to bring in some width/pace and to sure up our midfield. I don't think he/the club did a very good job of it.
3) I am concerned that Kit may not be able to draw the better players to the club given his relatively low profile, lack of experience and poor performance to date. I think if players are approached by a number of clubs - a manager with a good rep will be a big draw for them (along with salary and club profile of course) especially if they want to improve.
4) Is December perhaps a little too late if we don't improve? Many people argued our season was ruined after 7 games with Magarth...
Enjoy the debate when it is like this. Even if we don't agree it makes sense to ratify the answers.
2/ I am not sure how much effort was put into bringing players in January. I think it was a mistake but didn't put the lack of players down to Symons but the business side. Symons clearly has no control about who comes in once he makes his 'wants' and opinions known.
3/ I do not believe that his lack of experience will put players off if the business side is right for them.
4/ We need to bring in players in the right area. Under Felix we had a manager who had far more control over all sides of the club which was why he was unpopular with everybody at the club. Symons is more part of a structured team. If the playing side is a disaster than Symons will go very quickly. But if we start well and then are unable to continue, then December will still be time to remove a manager. I think unless things are bad as it clearly was under Felix then he needs until December to make it work.
Quote from: Lighthouse on May 28, 2015, 02:31:13 PM
In answer to the original 5 questions.
1/ If we had brought in any manager on the list. What we would do if come October/ November we still looked disorganised? So keep worrying whoever the manager is.
2/ Kit knows the weakness of the team and has made it clear we need improvement. He is already working with the management team in bringing in the right players. A new manager may well make the same mistake as many on here did and think the squad we have looks good with a bit of clever organisation. They would be wrong.
3/ I would hope players with pace in the wide areas and midfield can be brought in. A full back or two and a central midfield player.
4/ Kit should be given to December to see how things are. If we see no improvement then fine. But I am sure we will begin see a team in we can at least be proud of again.
1. It is an incredibly weak reason for keeping a manager to say that an alternative may be worse. If whoever is choosing the manager is going to make a series of poor choices maybe someone else should take over. I don't blame the gang of five. Kit started well and the alternatives didn't look convincing. Changing the manager at the start of the summer gives you a much bigger and better array of potential managers.
2. Kit says he knows the weaknesses in the team. When someone says that it usually means something simple like a goalscorer, a creative midfielder or a pacey right back and most of the supporters can see that. From comments on here we should be replacing all but about three of four players. That's not 'weaknesses'. That's a fundamental rebuild. Are we going to get that? Is it just the players or is it the system?
3. So you want three or four midfielders, two full backs and a central defender. I think many would agree with that. There's that fundamental rebuild then.
4. I admire your confidence even if if is contrary like your pessimism most of the time. I hope you are right and Kit turns out to be a clever and inspiring manager but I fear we will be looking for a new manager by your deadline of December and then we will have a limited choice of managers available as the OP said. Wrigley anyone?
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on May 28, 2015, 05:39:47 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on May 28, 2015, 02:31:13 PM
In answer to the original 5 questions.
1/ If we had brought in any manager on the list. What we would do if come October/ November we still looked disorganised? So keep worrying whoever the manager is.
2/ Kit knows the weakness of the team and has made it clear we need improvement. He is already working with the management team in bringing in the right players. A new manager may well make the same mistake as many on here did and think the squad we have looks good with a bit of clever organisation. They would be wrong.
3/ I would hope players with pace in the wide areas and midfield can be brought in. A full back or two and a central midfield player.
4/ Kit should be given to December to see how things are. If we see no improvement then fine. But I am sure we will begin see a team in we can at least be proud of again.
1. It is an incredibly weak reason for keeping a manager to say that an alternative may be worse. If whoever is choosing the manager is going to make a series of poor choices maybe someone else should take over. I don't blame the gang of five. Kit started well and the alternatives didn't look convincing. Changing the manager at the start of the summer gives you a much bigger and better array of potential managers.
2. Kit says he knows the weaknesses in the team. When someone says that it usually means something simple like a goalscorer, a creative midfielder or a pacey right back and most of the supporters can see that. From comments on here we should be replacing all but about three of four players. That's not 'weaknesses'. That's a fundamental rebuild. Are we going to get that? Is it just the players or is it the system?
3. So you want three or four midfielders, two full backs and a central defender. I think many would agree with that. There's that fundamental rebuild then.
4. I admire your confidence even if if is contrary like your pessimism most of the time. I hope you are right and Kit turns out to be a clever and inspiring manager but I fear we will be looking for a new manager by your deadline of December and then we will have a limited choice of managers available as the OP said. Wrigley anyone?
:plus one: Where's the stability, as you say a fundamental rebuild would leave Symons virtually starting from scratch.
