So the summer transfer Kitty looks about (£5m) to (10£m). I guess you add Roberts and it's really twice that.
I am really surprised everyone blames Kit.
I beg of everyone here, open your eyes. I won't be blinded by the truth. Shahid Khan is the owner of this club and 100% responsible.
So you honestly think that if Khan sells up, and nothing else changes, Kit all of a sudden becomes a better manager?
Think this is a bit harsh on Khan. Yes Khan could spend more money but not sure that is our answer right now.
Quote from: The Rock on August 20, 2015, 12:20:03 AM
So the summer transfer Kitty looks about (£5m) to (10£m). I guess you add Roberts and it's really twice that.
I am really surprised everyone blames Kit.
I beg of everyone here, open your eyes. I won't be blinded by the truth. Shahid Khan is the owner of this club and 100% responsible.
What an absolutely moronic comment. I urge people just to ignore this post, as it is just not worth the hassle.
Because the previous chairman helped start the rot ? Not investing in the Club after the Europa final. Trust me, I amay grateful for everything MAF did, without him we would have either gone bust or never seen Premiership football. It is partially down to his lack of funding that we are where we are today. The myth that KHan is unwilling to spend can be dissolved with McCormack and Mitoglu alone.
I ask you this, who will you name as the replacement party?
I hear the Venkys and Tans of this world want a new venture .
The only thing I blame Khan for is not getting rid of Symons the moment it became obvious he had no clue what he was doing.
He probably felt it was right to let him stay till the end of last season but should have let him go in the off season since he has never shown any ability to get us promoted to anyone other then a handful of delusional fulham supporters, the type who thought Mitroglou was going to play Championship football this season and that Roberts was better off staying at Fulham.
Quote from: Horse on August 20, 2015, 02:55:18 AM
The only thing I blame Khan for is not getting rid of Symons the moment it became obvious he had no clue what he was doing.
He probably felt it was right to let him stay till the end of last season but should have let him go in the off season since he has never shown any ability to get us promoted to anyone other then a handful of delusional fulham supporters, the type who thought Mitroglou was going to play Championship football this season and that Roberts was better off staying at Fulham.
Exactly
I don't think you can blame Shahid Khan for the start to the season, he doesn't pick the team (at least I don't think he does), he doesn't do the team talk and he doesn't make substitutions.
Quote from: Baws on August 20, 2015, 10:10:43 AM
I don't think you can blame Shahid Khan for the start to the season, he doesn't pick the team (at least I don't think he does), he doesn't do the team talk and he doesn't make substitutions.
Hey, his manager doesn't make substitutions either. Everyone's on the same page!
Quote from: andersons11 on August 20, 2015, 01:33:35 AM
Because the previous chairman helped start the rot ? Not investing in the Club after the Europa final. Trust me, I amay grateful for everything MAF did, without him we would have either gone bust or never seen Premiership football. It is partially down to his lack of funding that we are where we are today. The myth that KHan is unwilling to spend can be dissolved with McCormack and Mitoglu alone.
I ask you this, who will you name as the replacement party?
I hear the Venkys and Tans of this world want a new venture .
Not this again. There are people who will blame Mo 20 years from now.
Quote from: Texas White on August 20, 2015, 03:18:14 AM
Quote from: Horse on August 20, 2015, 02:55:18 AM
The only thing I blame Khan for is not getting rid of Symons the moment it became obvious he had no clue what he was doing.
He probably felt it was right to let him stay till the end of last season but should have let him go in the off season since he has never shown any ability to get us promoted to anyone other then a handful of delusional fulham supporters, the type who thought Mitroglou was going to play Championship football this season and that Roberts was better off staying at Fulham.
Exactly
Yes, a valid take. Everyone can go ahead and slag me for my narrow vision, but the way I see it, Khan is Kit's boss. It starts at the top is my argument. In 10 years time will we still be complaining that it's MAF's fleecing responsible for our position?
And sorry for the offensive original title to anyone I offended. Please make it read "Not a very good owner" thanks.
Quote from: andersons11 on August 20, 2015, 01:33:35 AM
Because the previous chairman helped start the rot ? Not investing in the Club after the Europa final. Trust me, I amay grateful for everything MAF did, without him we would have either gone bust or never seen Premiership football. It is partially down to his lack of funding that we are where we are today. The myth that KHan is unwilling to spend can be dissolved with McCormack and Mitoglu alone.
I ask you this, who will you name as the replacement party?
I hear the Venkys and Tans of this world want a new venture .
Crazy comments about MAF!! In his last season or so he brought in Ruiz & one of the top premier league strikers, Berbatov, as well as covering the huge ongoing losses personally to keep the club afloat. Oh, & he sold us debt free. What a crap owner!!
Out of interest, do you blame Alex Ferguson for David Moyes management record at Man Utd?
The running of the club is down to Kahn now & he's had over 2 years in charge to turn things around. That said, it's not Kahn's fault for our start to the season. Symons is the one telling the players not to attack for the 1st 45 mins.
Everyone, from the owners, to the management, to the players are to blame. There is something fundamentally wrong within the club.
Khan & Mackintosh, , the scouts, the managers and the players have all contributed to our demise.
Khan "will do anything he can to get us promoted". HA!
Why do people persistenly bash Khan? It's actually becoming a bit sad now how regardless of what he does, he takes loads of flak for it. To all the fans moaning about the lack of investment, look at Blackpool. Would you rather have an owner who asset strips the club instead? You don't know that he isn't willing to invest money, because regardless of what you read, you're not reliably informed, and more often than not, those who claim to be ITK are making up rumours for one reason or another.
Yes you could argue he's made a mistake by not sacking Kit sooner, and arguably Kit is now treading on very thin ice, but considering we've spent money on transfers, we've got another impending signing in Tim Ream, and we're actively looking to sign more players if reports are correct, then you can't say he's not putting money into the club. Yes we haven't signed the much needed Centre Back yet or a striker, but it's not as simple as just putting in a bid and signing players so if you're going to judge him on his investment in this transfer window, or lack thereof then please wait until the window shuts.
I don't claim to be itk at all, I am judging by what I have seen since his arrival and how he's reacted to it.
Fair point waiting on the transfer window to close though to reserve final judgement. There is a long list of problems that makes his statements like stopping just short of promising promotion last year silly and basically a lie.
I'd respect him and stop bashing him if he came clean about what his real intentions are with the club. Don't have Kit (stay) and say promotion is the goal and go straight to bottom of the table!
If he has given control of all things football to Mike Rigg and Kit Symons, which I suspect is the case.
It is probable that they have said they are happy with the players already signed + 1 or 2 more and they will achieve the target defined by Mr Khan.
It doesn't matter whether the opinion is that Mitro was never going to play in the CS or not, we own his
contract and he should have been told he was staying, for now, see what he does. If he's not a sulker he would have gotten on with it and it doesn't seem like he was a disruption (from comments on here)
Those are the sort of iffy decisions with perhaps a touch of arrogance thrown in that are one of the overall problems.
And then comments like "We have shown we can play football" or something like that.
Football is a 94/95 minute game.
Mr Khan bashing is ridiculous, but I'm sure he's not a happy bunny at the moment and it may well 'develop' quite soon.
Quote from: Reznor on August 20, 2015, 10:34:31 AM
Quote from: andersons11 on August 20, 2015, 01:33:35 AM
Because the previous chairman helped start the rot ? Not investing in the Club after the Europa final. Trust me, I amay grateful for everything MAF did, without him we would have either gone bust or never seen Premiership football. It is partially down to his lack of funding that we are where we are today. The myth that KHan is unwilling to spend can be dissolved with McCormack and Mitoglu alone.
I ask you this, who will you name as the replacement party?
I hear the Venkys and Tans of this world want a new venture .
Not this again. There are people who will blame Mo 20 years from now.
But that's the problem isn't it, people blame khan for the position the club is in. Unfairly in my view never once have I read or heard anywhere that he has refused to buy a player because of the fee. Yet he clearly inherited a club with an over reliance on older premiership players. So why is that, you can blame managers for their choices or MAF for his investment, some look at the lack of investment for the last 2 years and point fingers at Mo, I can see that even though without him it would probably be something like "Fulham (1992) ltd playing in the vauxhall conference south.
There are approximately 12 (seemingly genuine) Fulham fans who are defending Khan.
The facts we all know are:
1) he said he would do what it takes to take us back to the Prem
2) he said it wasn't always about balancing the books
3) in his December program notes he said the role of the academy was to stock the first team
4) in May he said there was a lot of work to be done on the squad to get it ready for "the start" of the season ( note not 1st Sept)
5) in the last 3 windows we are comfortably in transfer surplus..he hasnt put another dime in.
6) the jags have the biggest headroom on the NFL salary cap and a woeful record under Khans tenure.
7) he backed the decision to keep Kit despite about as near consensus ever seen from the fan base that he wasn't remotely the best man for the job
8) at time of writing our midfield is much improved if still unbalanced, our Defence and attack are much worse/slightly worse than the one that was close to relegation.
9) MJG has been told in his meetings with the club that 'make no mistake Mr Khan expects a top 6 finish.
Now for my opinion, given 1-9 how can so many posters who support our club not see that criticism of Khan's disastrous stewardship is warranted?
He is a self styled, voluntary, custodian who is presiding over a debacle. The current squad under the current manager haven't a snowballs chance in hell of making the play offs.
For the sake of a fraction of a % of his net worth he could bring in 3 players to make us genuine contenders whilst still complying with FFP. But here we are 3 games in with 1 point and 5 points at least spunked by fielding some of the same hapless defenders as last season and one whom wasn't even good enough to get into that defence is now playing on the wrong flank.
Given this and rooting this in the context of 1-9 how can anyone seriously be surprised that Khan is the subject of sustained criticism from many fans?
I mean seriously what don't you get?
Is it bashing Khan? I tend to think there is merit in Rock's view. Tony Khan's comment on twitter that they have come to "innovate" should send a shiver up our spines. Particularly since their innovation has, so far, cost us a place in the PL and looks set to see us mired in the Championship for ages. So too should the news that the club has applied for a variation in the planning so that they can build flats on the corners of the Riverside stand and underground parking (under the pitch) make us anxious. Are we back to the future? A club whose real value lies in the development of the ground into flats? If Khan is committed to the success of the club at the highest level he needs to demonstrate that ambition. Remember what Kit inherited. A club in disarray which had lost its soul on the pitch and was losing it rapidly off it. Magath wasn't just bad - he was poisonous. He took away the good will of the players and many of the fans. Everyone is dismayed at the state we are in. Is the new football structure working? Is Mike Rigg supportive or simply a threat to all of the playing staff's employment? Another post pointed out that we only played with freedom after Rotherham had its points deduction and we were safe. That observation feels true to me which suggests that the atmosphere is still punitive rather than asperiational. Khan is an absentee owner. There is nothing to admire in that particularly when we are struggling. God Bless Fayed for his scarf waving and insane pronouncements and yes for the Michael Jackson statue. Fulham was fun. It was mad. And there were years were played with no fear and could beat anyone. I want those years back. Khan doesn't know they existed.
Quote from: Mighty Maik on August 20, 2015, 03:27:35 PM
Is it bashing Khan? I tend to think there is merit in Rock's view. Tony Khan's comment on twitter that they have come to "innovate" should send a shiver up our spines. Particularly since their innovation has, so far, cost us a place in the PL and looks set to see us mired in the Championship for ages. So too should the news that the club has applied for a variation in the planning so that they can build flats on the corners of the Riverside stand and underground parking (under the pitch) make us anxious. Are we back to the future? A club whose real value lies in the development of the ground into flats? If Khan is committed to the success of the club at the highest level he needs to demonstrate that ambition. Remember what Kit inherited. A club in disarray which had lost its soul on the pitch and was losing it rapidly off it. Magath wasn't just bad - he was poisonous. He took away the good will of the players and many of the fans. Everyone is dismayed at the state we are in. Is the new football structure working? Is Mike Rigg supportive or simply a threat to all of the playing staff's employment? Another post pointed out that we only played with freedom after Rotherham had its points deduction and we were safe. That observation feels true to me which suggests that the atmosphere is still punitive rather than asperiational. Khan is an absentee owner. There is nothing to admire in that particularly when we are struggling. God Bless Fayed for his scarf waving and insane pronouncements and yes for the Michael Jackson statue. Fulham was fun. It was mad. And there were years were played with no fear and could beat anyone. I want those years back. Khan doesn't know they existed.
I agree completely. The most frustrating thing is that Khan never watches us play and seemingly has no interest in football - so why buy us for ~£200m??
Quote from: WayneKerrins on August 20, 2015, 03:24:01 PM
There are approximately 12 (seemingly genuine) Fulham fans who are defending Khan.
The facts we all know are:
1) he said he would do what it takes to take us back to the Prem
2) he said it wasn't always about balancing the books
3) in his December program notes he said the role of the academy was to stock the first team
4) in May he said there was a lot of work to be done on the squad to get it ready for "the start" of the season ( note not 1st Sept)
5) in the last 3 windows we are comfortably in transfer surplus..he hasnt put another dime in.
6) the jags have the biggest headroom on the NFL salary cap and a woeful record under Khans tenure.
7) he backed the decision to keep Kit despite about as near consensus ever seen from the fan base that he wasn't remotely the best man for the job
8) at time of writing our midfield is much improved if still unbalanced, our Defence and attack are much worse/slightly worse than the one that was close to relegation.
9) MJG has been told in his meetings with the club that 'make no mistake Mr Khan expects a top 6 finish.
Now for my opinion, given 1-9 how can so many posters who support our club not see that criticism of Khan's disastrous stewardship is warranted?
He is a self styled, voluntary, custodian who is presiding over a debacle. The current squad under the current manager haven't a snowballs chance in hell of making the play offs.
For the sake of a fraction of a % of his net worth he could bring in 3 players to make us genuine contenders whilst still complying with FFP. But here we are 3 games in with 1 point and 5 points at least spunked by fielding some of the same hapless defenders as last season and one whom wasn't even good enough to get into that defence is now playing on the wrong flank.
Given this and rooting this in the context of 1-9 how can anyone seriously be surprised that Khan is the subject of sustained criticism from many fans?
I mean seriously what don't you get?
Damned fine argument sir. I posted early on and again subsequently that Khan must take responsibility and you make that point well.
Quote from: Mighty Maik on August 20, 2015, 03:27:35 PM
Is it bashing Khan? I tend to think there is merit in Rock's view. Tony Khan's comment on twitter that they have come to "innovate" should send a shiver up our spines. Particularly since their innovation has, so far, cost us a place in the PL and looks set to see us mired in the Championship for ages. So too should the news that the club has applied for a variation in the planning so that they can build flats on the corners of the Riverside stand and underground parking (under the pitch) make us anxious. Are we back to the future? A club whose real value lies in the development of the ground into flats? If Khan is committed to the success of the club at the highest level he needs to demonstrate that ambition. Remember what Kit inherited. A club in disarray which had lost its soul on the pitch and was losing it rapidly off it. Magath wasn't just bad - he was poisonous. He took away the good will of the players and many of the fans. Everyone is dismayed at the state we are in. Is the new football structure working? Is Mike Rigg supportive or simply a threat to all of the playing staff's employment? Another post pointed out that we only played with freedom after Rotherham had its points deduction and we were safe. That observation feels true to me which suggests that the atmosphere is still punitive rather than asperiational. Khan is an absentee owner. There is nothing to admire in that particularly when we are struggling. God Bless Fayed for his scarf waving and insane pronouncements and yes for the Michael Jackson statue. Fulham was fun. It was mad. And there were years were played with no fear and could beat anyone. I want those years back. Khan doesn't know they existed.
Spot on especially your desire for the Fulham that could play without fear. A no blame culture that seems to have been replaced with a toxic fear of failure culture.
Quote from: Twig on August 20, 2015, 05:04:06 PM
Quote from: WayneKerrins on August 20, 2015, 03:24:01 PM
There are approximately 12 (seemingly genuine) Fulham fans who are defending Khan.
The facts we all know are:
1) he said he would do what it takes to take us back to the Prem
2) he said it wasn't always about balancing the books
3) in his December program notes he said the role of the academy was to stock the first team
4) in May he said there was a lot of work to be done on the squad to get it ready for "the start" of the season ( note not 1st Sept)
5) in the last 3 windows we are comfortably in transfer surplus..he hasnt put another dime in.
6) the jags have the biggest headroom on the NFL salary cap and a woeful record under Khans tenure.
7) he backed the decision to keep Kit despite about as near consensus ever seen from the fan base that he wasn't remotely the best man for the job
8) at time of writing our midfield is much improved if still unbalanced, our Defence and attack are much worse/slightly worse than the one that was close to relegation.
9) MJG has been told in his meetings with the club that 'make no mistake Mr Khan expects a top 6 finish.
Now for my opinion, given 1-9 how can so many posters who support our club not see that criticism of Khan's disastrous stewardship is warranted?
He is a self styled, voluntary, custodian who is presiding over a debacle. The current squad under the current manager haven't a snowballs chance in hell of making the play offs.
For the sake of a fraction of a % of his net worth he could bring in 3 players to make us genuine contenders whilst still complying with FFP. But here we are 3 games in with 1 point and 5 points at least spunked by fielding some of the same hapless defenders as last season and one whom wasn't even good enough to get into that defence is now playing on the wrong flank.
Given this and rooting this in the context of 1-9 how can anyone seriously be surprised that Khan is the subject of sustained criticism from many fans?
I mean seriously what don't you get?
Damned fine argument sir. I posted early on and again subsequently that Khan must take responsibility and you make that point well.
'
One thing I've noticed over 40 odd years of supporting this club. We are very tolerant of chairmen. Especially very rich ones. I suspect it's human deference, relief that they aren't Clay/Bulstrode, and/or fear that they might up sticks.
Ultimately we have a multi billionaire talking big and not doing much else for the thick end of 15 months. We can blame a mediocre cheap manager for all our ills but one of the most established and proven principles says the buck stops at the top.
That's where our focus should be.
Quote from: andersons11 on August 20, 2015, 01:33:35 AM
Because the previous chairman helped start the rot ? Not investing in the Club after the Europa final. Trust me, I amay grateful for everything MAF did, without him we would have either gone bust or never seen Premiership football. It is partially down to his lack of funding that we are where we are today. The myth that KHan is unwilling to spend can be dissolved with McCormack and Mitoglu alone.
I ask you this, who will you name as the replacement party?
I hear the Venkys and Tans of this world want a new venture .
I can't believe some fans can lay some of the blame for our current state on MAF. The guy spent millions on the club, not just the team, whilst owner and played a big part in bringing success that looked nothing more than a dream before he came to the club. Over a decade in the world's most exciting league, a European final. Some people want to re-think their views on him. We've got a lot to be grateful for thanks to Big Mo.
Quote from: Buffalo76 on August 20, 2015, 05:41:23 PM
Quote from: andersons11 on August 20, 2015, 01:33:35 AM
Because the previous chairman helped start the rot ? Not investing in the Club after the Europa final. Trust me, I amay grateful for everything MAF did, without him we would have either gone bust or never seen Premiership football. It is partially down to his lack of funding that we are where we are today. The myth that KHan is unwilling to spend can be dissolved with McCormack and Mitoglu alone.
I ask you this, who will you name as the replacement party?
I hear the Venkys and Tans of this world want a new venture .
I can't believe some fans can lay some of the blame for our current state on MAF. The guy spent millions on the club, not just the team, whilst owner and played a big part in bringing success that looked nothing more than a dream before he came to the club. Over a decade in the world's most exciting league, a European final. Some people want to re-think their views on him. We've got a lot to be grateful for thanks to Big Mo.
Personally, I find it incredible that people diss Mo. Just look around you when at the ground and remember what it used to be. Plus the fact he wrote off the debt. Awesome chairman.
Quote from: Reznor on August 20, 2015, 08:35:08 PM
Quote from: Buffalo76 on August 20, 2015, 05:41:23 PM
Quote from: andersons11 on August 20, 2015, 01:33:35 AM
Because the previous chairman helped start the rot ? Not investing in the Club after the Europa final. Trust me, I amay grateful for everything MAF did, without him we would have either gone bust or never seen Premiership football. It is partially down to his lack of funding that we are where we are today. The myth that KHan is unwilling to spend can be dissolved with McCormack and Mitoglu alone.
I ask you this, who will you name as the replacement party?
I hear the Venkys and Tans of this world want a new venture .
I can't believe some fans can lay some of the blame for our current state on MAF. The guy spent millions on the club, not just the team, whilst owner and played a big part in bringing success that looked nothing more than a dream before he came to the club. Over a decade in the world's most exciting league, a European final. Some people want to re-think their views on him. We've got a lot to be grateful for thanks to Big Mo.
Personally, I find it incredible that people diss Mo. Just look around you when at the ground and remember what it used to be. Plus the fact he wrote off the debt. Awesome chairman.
Ive never had a go at MAF, nor have I ever said anything depreciating his value to the club. The man is a Fulham legend in my eyes. I agree with Mighty Maik in his post in its entirety. The MAF Fulham was mad and you never knew what you were going to get, win or loose often times no matter the result, you had fun. That's the plain truth.
MAF is and was as much as Fulham as you, I, Haynes and all the other players and supporters. I am just tired of the relentless bashing and negativity. Maybe its because I have rose tinted glasses having met the man. He genuinely cares about the people under his charge. Everyone in Jacksonville loves the man, he is just as interesting a character as MAF is, if we would just let him. The absentee bit is true, yes we would love to see him more, scarf waving and being behind the team visibly. Maybe there is a way the Trust can bring it up at the next meeting.
It just frustrates me that people are so willing to leave everything at Khans's feet but not accept that it was the previous tenure that started us down the path. If you bought your mates car and it turned out to be a lemon, would you blame yourself? No, you would go after your mate for a refund.
I guess I hate the Khan bashing because I have hope. I want better for Fulham, I want better for us. I want him to come good. Its easy to have a owner like Oyston at Blackpool, because its the supporters united against the management. I hate seeing us slowly sink, heads barely above water, seeing a yacht in the distance, not sure if the yacht will show up or a dingy instead.
Khan is Fulham owner for good or ill - and it could be a lot worse.
He is a millionaire, and has shown he is prepared to invest big money in the club on players and the new stand, as well as whatever it costs in day to day running of the club.
But, he is a businessman, and his purchase of Fulham is related to furthering his business interests, as existing owner of an American football club. He isn't like MAF - prepared to spend whatever it takes to get into the Prem, because MAF was motivated by the reflected glory of owning a Prem club, and not business
interests, though getting back to the Prem is Khan's stated goal - and I believe he is genuine, but just not prepared to throw unlimited money at it - and there is also FFP to consider.
Just out of interest, is this one of the two threads dannyboi mentioned that a "Fulham representative" complained about and had to have its title changed?
I've posted a pro-Khan message in another thread, but I'll echo my sentiments here.
I think Khan has been brilliant so far and believe things can only get better under his control. His hands are somewhat tied by FFP right now, but he'll be free in the Premier League to spend as he wants.
I think the money is there for players but it's not easy persuading the league's top talents (who are attracting Premier League interest) to join a team who were in the bottom half of the table last year.
There have been any number of improvements at the club since he took over, the only downturn has been in performances, which I leave down to the players, the managers and Al Fayed for turning off the money-tap too soon before he left. The investment Khan has made off the pitch has been very noticeable - particularly in the media department - and I look forward to seeing what plan he comes up with next.
Finally, if any staff member were to go, the last one I'd want out of the door is Shahid Khan - how on earth could we replace him with better given the sorry state we're in right now. Look at the owners of Newcastle, Hull, Cardiff etc, and you'll realise we have it pretty bloody sweet with Khan...
Gosh Craven, I'm not sure I have noticed any of the many improvements at the club and I am there regularly. I have seen a dispirited staff and fans that are desvastated by both the lack of cohesiveness and desire on and off the pitch. You may be the only person who has seen these improvements and shuld work for Khan as his PR if you don't already do so. As RaySmith wisely observes - he is the owner we've got. There are worse, certainly, but few that have taken a stable PL club with flashes of excellence and relegated it and watched it sink toward double relegation. This isn't gratuitously negative - just a recounting of what has happened. The stewardship of Khan, so far, has shown us little to celebrate. He owns the worst team in the NFL and the system there, through the draft, is set up to make sure no team languishes at the bottom for too long. Perhaps it is the "analytics" team. Perhaps they should remember that Billy Beane actually played baseball - so he knew what the "analytics" meant...and what they didn't. My friends in the US who follow the NFL religiously (but not, obviously, as religiously as any British football fan follows their team!!)find it hard to explain how the Jaguars could conspire to be so bad for so many years in a row. One (I think former) Jaguars employee told me in passing that they relied on the changing personnel at the military base for their business to succeed. They were only based in Jacksonville for 2-3 years so they never became too disgruntled. (true story!) Unfortunately for Khan, Fulham fans are for life. No one is going anywhere - except maybe a dark room.
Regarding the changed planning permission-how many flats are involved?
Quote from: Craven Mad on August 21, 2015, 09:49:30 AM
I've posted a pro-Khan message in another thread, but I'll echo my sentiments here.
I think Khan has been brilliant so far and believe things can only get better under his control. His hands are somewhat tied by FFP right now, but he'll be free in the Premier League to spend as he wants.
I think the money is there for players but it's not easy persuading the league's top talents (who are attracting Premier League interest) to join a team who were in the bottom half of the table last year.
There have been any number of improvements at the club since he took over, the only downturn has been in performances, which I leave down to the players, the managers and Al Fayed for turning off the money-tap too soon before he left. The investment Khan has made off the pitch has been very noticeable - particularly in the media department - and I look forward to seeing what plan he comes up with next.
Finally, if any staff member were to go, the last one I'd want out of the door is Shahid Khan - how on earth could we replace him with better given the sorry state we're in right now. Look at the owners of Newcastle, Hull, Cardiff etc, and you'll realise we have it pretty bloody sweet with Khan...
Are you Shahid Khan in disguise? You are in a fantasy land if you think that under this disinterested wide boy we will get anywhere near the Premiership.
Quote from: Mighty Maik on August 21, 2015, 10:27:10 AM
Gosh Craven, I'm not sure I have noticed any of the many improvements at the club and I am there regularly. I have seen a dispirited staff and fans that are desvastated by both the lack of cohesiveness and desire on and off the pitch. You may be the only person who has seen these improvements and shuld work for Khan as his PR if you don't already do so. As RaySmith wisely observes - he is the owner we've got. There are worse, certainly, but few that have taken a stable PL club with flashes of excellence and relegated it and watched it sink toward double relegation. This isn't gratuitously negative - just a recounting of what has happened. The stewardship of Khan, so far, has shown us little to celebrate. He owns the worst team in the NFL and the system there, through the draft, is set up to make sure no team languishes at the bottom for too long. Perhaps it is the "analytics" team. Perhaps they should remember that Billy Beane actually played baseball - so he knew what the "analytics" meant...and what they didn't. My friends in the US who follow the NFL religiously (but not, obviously, as religiously as any British football fan follows their team!!)find it hard to explain how the Jaguars could conspire to be so bad for so many years in a row. One (I think former) Jaguars employee told me in passing that they relied on the changing personnel at the military base for their business to succeed. They were only based in Jacksonville for 2-3 years so they never became too disgruntled. (true story!) Unfortunately for Khan, Fulham fans are for life. No one is going anywhere - except maybe a dark room.
There's no denying that Khan has overseen a disappointing time for us, but I honestly don't think the blame can be placed at his feet.
We weren't a stable team when he bought us, we were the oldest team in the league with most players on near-ending deals and results were on the slide. Jol had purchased some terrible and damaging players at high cost and Al Fayed wasn't investing in areas we needed. Al Fayed did the smart (business) thing, sell a sinking ship for a high price to a buyer who didn't understand the scope of the problem - but that act has cost us ever since. In simple terms, I don't think Khan can be blamed for our relegation or current performances, but I think he should be praised for the investment he's made in us - it's a lot more than Al Fayed did for us in his final years.
Also, I understand why you are comparing the two clubs, but I don't think you can correlate the Jag's failures with ours - different issues.
Finally, no, I'm not part of Khan's PR team, and, yes, I have seen the general mood at CC (I'm there a lot too), but it's my point of view and I wanted to share it, it's fine if you disagree!
Quote from: WayneKerrins on August 20, 2015, 03:24:01 PM
There are approximately 12 (seemingly genuine) Fulham fans who are defending Khan.
The facts we all know are:
1) he said he would do what it takes to take us back to the Prem
2) he said it wasn't always about balancing the books
3) in his December program notes he said the role of the academy was to stock the first team
4) in May he said there was a lot of work to be done on the squad to get it ready for "the start" of the season ( note not 1st Sept)
5) in the last 3 windows we are comfortably in transfer surplus..he hasnt put another dime in.
6) the jags have the biggest headroom on the NFL salary cap and a woeful record under Khans tenure.
7) he backed the decision to keep Kit despite about as near consensus ever seen from the fan base that he wasn't remotely the best man for the job
8) at time of writing our midfield is much improved if still unbalanced, our Defence and attack are much worse/slightly worse than the one that was close to relegation.
9) MJG has been told in his meetings with the club that 'make no mistake Mr Khan expects a top 6 finish.
Now for my opinion, given 1-9 how can so many posters who support our club not see that criticism of Khan's disastrous stewardship is warranted?
He is a self styled, voluntary, custodian who is presiding over a debacle. The current squad under the current manager haven't a snowballs chance in hell of making the play offs.
For the sake of a fraction of a % of his net worth he could bring in 3 players to make us genuine contenders whilst still complying with FFP. But here we are 3 games in with 1 point and 5 points at least spunked by fielding some of the same hapless defenders as last season and one whom wasn't even good enough to get into that defence is now playing on the wrong flank.
Given this and rooting this in the context of 1-9 how can anyone seriously be surprised that Khan is the subject of sustained criticism from many fans?
I mean seriously what don't you get?
This is a brilliant and accurate post +1
Quote from: Craven Mad on August 21, 2015, 09:49:30 AM
I've posted a pro-Khan message in another thread, but I'll echo my sentiments here.
I think Khan has been brilliant so far and believe things can only get better under his control. His hands are somewhat tied by FFP right now, but he'll be free in the Premier League to spend as he wants.
I think the money is there for players but it's not easy persuading the league's top talents (who are attracting Premier League interest) to join a team who were in the bottom half of the table last year.
There have been any number of improvements at the club since he took over, the only downturn has been in performances, which I leave down to the players, the managers and Al Fayed for turning off the money-tap too soon before he left. The investment Khan has made off the pitch has been very noticeable - particularly in the media department - and I look forward to seeing what plan he comes up with next.
Finally, if any staff member were to go, the last one I'd want out of the door is Shahid Khan - how on earth could we replace him with better given the sorry state we're in right now. Look at the owners of Newcastle, Hull, Cardiff etc, and you'll realise we have it pretty bloody sweet with Khan...
Craven, good post, but perhaps more people are interested only in what happens on the pitch, and that is the cause of this.
Too many will take what has happened in the last 2 years and believe it all started 2 years ago, forgetting that footie clubs take time to rebuild. That's not saying that SK has done a wonderful job, far from it, and that's not saying either that he is the clubs biggest fan, very far from it, but 2 things we have to remember;
1. He OWNS the club, it's his money that he worked for and made that is keeping us afloat, like it or not he is the man in charge;
2. MaF sold us to Khan.
Take nothing away from MaF, I've said it before, he is perhaps the best chairman we have had for almost the history of the club in garnering success, especially in the modern age, but he did not maintain his investment in the club up til the end. He did, however, write off some 190M (?) in debt for us, which is an investment in itself,but as I said, that doesn't do anything towards what happens on the pitch, which is what most people consider success to be, it just allowed the club to be more attractive to a buyer.
Things will always be seen differently by different people, and that is my perspective, everyone has their own.
Cheers Rock.
Trouble is mate even when you set out facts a poster with over 2000 posts without a hint of irony says, and it's worthy of a new line,
"I think Khan has been brilliant so far".
Badly advised? maybe, unlucky? Perhaps, naive? Probably
But no apparently he's been "brilliant".
Jeesus wept....I mean genuinely wept...
And for the record I was one of the earliest and most vocal critics of the latter period Fayed cash squeeze which started the decline which that buffoon Jol hastened by a season or so. My beef with Khan is post relegation.
Quote from: WayneKerrins on August 21, 2015, 03:14:56 PM
Cheers Rock.
Trouble is mate even when you set out facts a poster with over 2000 posts without a hint of irony says, and it's worthy of a new line,
"I think Khan has been brilliant so far".
Badly advised? maybe, unlucky? Perhaps, naive? Probably
But no apparently he's been "brilliant".
Jeesus wept....I mean genuinely wept...
And for the record I was one of the earliest and most vocal critics of the latter period Fayed cash squeeze which started the decline which that buffoon Jol hastened by a season or so. My beef with Khan is post relegation.
If you want to disagree with me, feel free, but there's no need to throw shade and be churlish about it; we have a difference of opinion, so what?
I can't disagree with the argument that Khan has owned us during our worst spell in 15-odd years, I just don't point the finger of blame at him for our results.
You want him to spend a % of his wealth on us, but he has spent a lot of money trying to fix the issue; Mitrog and Ross being just two examples of very expensive players he's bought us (before us, how many Championship teams spent £10m+ on a player?).
Khan's also tried changing things by bringing in new managers (possibly too many new managers), but with no success. He won't have picked those managers btw, he'll have been advised and told how much the severance deal would cost, and asked whether he'd sanction it - which he did..
My opinion - and this is where we obviously disagree - is that I don't think he's personally responsible for the predicament we're in, and as far as the job of owner goes (provide funds/improve the club as a whole), I genuinely - without a hint of irony - think he has been brilliant for the reasons I stated above. The one area which hasn't improved at all (and is notably worse) is results, but - as I've said - I think he's tried to remedy that issue by conventional means (money/managerial changes) to no effect, so now is taking some time for consolidation/stability, before embarking on more drastic changes.
I know we all want Khan to drop £50m on transfers, but it's not as simple as that (look at Bristol City) and it isn't guaranteed results (thanks, Mitrog) and can result in a far worse situation if we get an embargo (Blackburn Rovers, for example).
So, yeah, thanks for the criticism, but I have my opinion - which I feel is valid - and I'm happy to acknowledge yours without acting like a child about it...
Trying to constructively move this forward, would your opinion change at all if we sign both Gayle and Dunk before the end of the window? Cos there's still time...
Quote from: Craven Mad on August 21, 2015, 09:49:30 AM
I've posted a pro-Khan message in another thread, but I'll echo my sentiments here.
I think Khan has been brilliant so far and believe things can only get better under his control. His hands are somewhat tied by FFP right now, but he'll be free in the Premier League to spend as he wants.
I think the money is there for players but it's not easy persuading the league's top talents (who are attracting Premier League interest) to join a team who were in the bottom half of the table last year.
There have been any number of improvements at the club since he took over, the only downturn has been in performances, which I leave down to the players, the managers and Al Fayed for turning off the money-tap too soon before he left. The investment Khan has made off the pitch has been very noticeable - particularly in the media department - and I look forward to seeing what plan he comes up with next.
Finally, if any staff member were to go, the last one I'd want out of the door is Shahid Khan - how on earth could we replace him with better given the sorry state we're in right now. Look at the owners of Newcastle, Hull, Cardiff etc, and you'll realise we have it pretty bloody sweet with Khan...
The introduction of the real ale tent by the river is a vast "improvement" from the muck sold elsewhere in the ground.
I'm sure if I think hard enough I can come up a few more "improvements"..........
Nah! sorry, nothing comes to mind.
Trying to constructively move this forward, would your opinion change at all if we sign both Gayle and Dunk before the end of the window? Cos there's still time...
[/quote]
A big fat yes!
I would change my opinion but I still wouldn't warm to Khan in the same way as I did with MAF, that may come in time.
I don't think many of us expect a £50 million kitty and I realise just because we get the likes of Ruiz and Rodders out doesn't mean that money can always be earmarked for new players.
BUT! he's talked BIG again and again and so far the clocks ticking with little to show for all the words.
Quote from: west kowloon white on August 21, 2015, 10:28:22 AM
Regarding the changed planning permission-how many flats are involved?
There is no change to the number of flats proposed and approved in the original planning application. That is 6 in number.
gezkc - Two is what was described to me. Each corner of the Riverside Stand. Of course, that would mean that the precedent for residential development would be established.
The analysis that the rot had started before Khan, is of course correct. MAF had, reportedly, been trying to sell the club for a bit and he naturally cashed out some of the assets (Dempsey and Dembele) before he did. We were caught in the trap of loan deals for high profile players that inflated our wage bill while making us look desireable to a non-discerning eye. "Total Football" remember? - Which turned out to be a bunch of individual egos doing whatever they wanted once in a while. A far cry from the organised years of Hodgson (and indeed Tigana!!) with lesser known players punching well above their presumed weight game after game. God bless, 'Bairdiniho', Gera, and all the others that were under rated but outstanding for Fulham.
Yes, I guess we'll disagree, Craven Mad, but I'll still go to the game believing we can win even when all the evidence says we won't - and I'll cheer with you when we do. And I'll still be cross when Khan disapears at half-time and doesn't come back. But I won't blame Kit for the mess Khan and Lamping have caused while saying they are committed to the future of the club. Right now, for me, Kit is a grafter and Khan appears to be a grifter - true to the homophone of his name - until he backs up his ambition with a constructive and well executed plan to improve the club.
Thaks for the clarification Domino.
Thanks Domino-I won't turning on Khan then.
The issue was dubious evidence in an anti Khan rant-50 then smacks of our previous owners.
The full Rudd article in today's Times portrays him as sensitive to fans criticism(Danny?)
Personally think lucky to have him.
Trying to think of who I would prefer-doubtless one of our more intelligent posters will come up with a list?
Quote from: WayneKerrins on August 20, 2015, 03:24:01 PM
There are approximately 12 (seemingly genuine) Fulham fans who are defending Khan.
The facts we all know are:
1) he said he would do what it takes to take us back to the Prem
2) he said it wasn't always about balancing the books
3) in his December program notes he said the role of the academy was to stock the first team
4) in May he said there was a lot of work to be done on the squad to get it ready for "the start" of the season ( note not 1st Sept)
5) in the last 3 windows we are comfortably in transfer surplus..he hasnt put another dime in.
6) the jags have the biggest headroom on the NFL salary cap and a woeful record under Khans tenure.
7) he backed the decision to keep Kit despite about as near consensus ever seen from the fan base that he wasn't remotely the best man for the job
8) at time of writing our midfield is much improved if still unbalanced, our Defence and attack are much worse/slightly worse than the one that was close to relegation.
9) MJG has been told in his meetings with the club that 'make no mistake Mr Khan expects a top 6 finish.
Now for my opinion, given 1-9 how can so many posters who support our club not see that criticism of Khan's disastrous stewardship is warranted?
He is a self styled, voluntary, custodian who is presiding over a debacle. The current squad under the current manager haven't a snowballs chance in hell of making the play offs.
For the sake of a fraction of a % of his net worth he could bring in 3 players to make us genuine contenders whilst still complying with FFP. But here we are 3 games in with 1 point and 5 points at least spunked by fielding some of the same hapless defenders as last season and one whom wasn't even good enough to get into that defence is now playing on the wrong flank.
Given this and rooting this in the context of 1-9 how can anyone seriously be surprised that Khan is the subject of sustained criticism from many fans?
I mean seriously what don't you get?
I can tell you what I 'don't get':
I 'don't get' to the conclusion that Khan cares not whether we return to the PL.
I 'don't get' to the conclusion that he was naïve to accept advice from Alistair Mackintosh.
I 'don't get' to the conclusion that the likelihood of our being relegated would have been any the less had MAF remained as Chairman.
Whether or not you agree with my assessment, I do not know (but it would surprise me, of course, if you did); I am merely outlining why I think I feel less inclined to be critical of Khan than you.
I also think that some of your list of facts can be interpreted in different ways:
Fact 1) can be better assessed when the transfer window closes.
Fact 2) has surely been clarified by Rigg's recent statement that the Club would work within the rules of FFP.
Fact 3) is not referred to in your summary. It is not self-evident (to me) in what way you are holding this statement against our Chairman.
Fact 4) is, in an instance such as this, not to be taken literally. Doubtless many a chairman and manager use the term 'new season' in May. How many of them actually mean that there can be no transfer business between the opening fixture and the end of the transfer window?
Fact 5) is not something that I can verify without research, so I shall accept it. Is it not the case, however, that FFP regulations apply to more than just our transfer dealings. With a shortfall of tens-of-millions in our income following relegation, we had to balance our books. Could not a net transfer gain have been a means to an end?
Fact 6), if true (and I have no reason to doubt that it isn't), ostensibly adds weight to the notion that Khan doesn't 'do what it takes' (Fact 1). Knowing nothing about Gridiron, however, I wouldn't know whether (as in the case of Fact 5) there are mitigating circumstances. Even if there are none, on its own, it would not significantly influence my opinion.
Fact 7) is disingenuous: you ignore that the original 'near consensus' was for Symons' appointment in the first place. At the time, few, if any, supporters were expecting anything more than that he keep us up. I can understand why the Club refrained from sacking him at the end of last season.
Fact 8) is not a fact at all; it is an opinion. I shall spare you the details, but I am not entirely of the same opinion.
Fact 9) is, as far as I know, correct. I shall make the assumption that this relates to your opinion that there has been a lack of investment this summer.
Though we see Khan in a different light, I do not say that you are wrong. Until it is evident that the decline of the past two seasons is being reversed, my support will not be without its reservations. For me, time will tell.
I like khan. (Mainly on gut instinct which I can't argue with you about unless you want a stool sample). Not what's happened under him but I think a bigger picture needs to be looked at;
I think he has made decisions that could have gone either way.
They have all gone the wrong way.
That's unlucky.
They haven't all been bad decisions.
Some have.
Rather than doing a QPR he is sticking by the rules. This strikes me as honourable.
That gives me evidence he will honour the promises he has given us.
There are so many worse owners out there I'd rather the devil we know.
Quote from: Horse on August 20, 2015, 02:55:18 AM
The only thing I blame Khan for is not getting rid of Symons the moment it became obvious he had no clue what he was doing.
He probably felt it was right to let him stay till the end of last season but should have let him go in the off season since he has never shown any ability to get us promoted to anyone other then a handful of delusional fulham supporters, the type who thought Mitroglou was going to play Championship football this season and that Roberts was better off staying at Fulham.
He made the same mistake with Magath. Failed on the rescue mission to keep us up but was retained. I think Mr Khan compromised his hard business reputation there. So two mistakes, retaining failing managers on both occasions. What is KIts record now? 4 wins from the last 25. Relegation form amigos
Khan was sold a duff- and I don't mean of the Damien kind. I don't think that he predicted relegation so soon from an established team. He is a businessman, so he will look after his business interests, if that includes adding residential units to add value to a future sale, then that's business sense.
If we'd stayed up, we might have been better off more quickly due to increased revenue. As it is, it will take much time to correct and regain consistent Prem status. The best thing for the club would be if Khan fell in love with Fulham, like MAF did, but it is unlikely with the amount of unnecessary stick that he gets.
Solely blaming Kahn is just thick.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on August 20, 2015, 03:31:04 PM
Quote from: Mighty Maik on August 20, 2015, 03:27:35 PM
Is it bashing Khan? I tend to think there is merit in Rock's view. Tony Khan's comment on twitter that they have come to "innovate" should send a shiver up our spines. Particularly since their innovation has, so far, cost us a place in the PL and looks set to see us mired in the Championship for ages. So too should the news that the club has applied for a variation in the planning so that they can build flats on the corners of the Riverside stand and underground parking (under the pitch) make us anxious. Are we back to the future? A club whose real value lies in the development of the ground into flats? If Khan is committed to the success of the club at the highest level he needs to demonstrate that ambition. Remember what Kit inherited. A club in disarray which had lost its soul on the pitch and was losing it rapidly off it. Magath wasn't just bad - he was poisonous. He took away the good will of the players and many of the fans. Everyone is dismayed at the state we are in. Is the new football structure working? Is Mike Rigg supportive or simply a threat to all of the playing staff's employment? Another post pointed out that we only played with freedom after Rotherham had its points deduction and we were safe. That observation feels true to me which suggests that the atmosphere is still punitive rather than asperiational. Khan is an absentee owner. There is nothing to admire in that particularly when we are struggling. God Bless Fayed for his scarf waving and insane pronouncements and yes for the Michael Jackson statue. Fulham was fun. It was mad. And there were years were played with no fear and could beat anyone. I want those years back. Khan doesn't know they existed.
I echo your wise words.
As do I.
Quote from: The Rock on August 21, 2015, 11:32:17 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on August 20, 2015, 03:31:04 PM
Quote from: Mighty Maik on August 20, 2015, 03:27:35 PM
Is it bashing Khan? I tend to think there is merit in Rock's view. Tony Khan's comment on twitter that they have come to "innovate" should send a shiver up our spines. Particularly since their innovation has, so far, cost us a place in the PL and looks set to see us mired in the Championship for ages. So too should the news that the club has applied for a variation in the planning so that they can build flats on the corners of the Riverside stand and underground parking (under the pitch) make us anxious. Are we back to the future? A club whose real value lies in the development of the ground into flats? If Khan is committed to the success of the club at the highest level he needs to demonstrate that ambition. Remember what Kit inherited. A club in disarray which had lost its soul on the pitch and was losing it rapidly off it. Magath wasn't just bad - he was poisonous. He took away the good will of the players and many of the fans. Everyone is dismayed at the state we are in. Is the new football structure working? Is Mike Rigg supportive or simply a threat to all of the playing staff's employment? Another post pointed out that we only played with freedom after Rotherham had its points deduction and we were safe. That observation feels true to me which suggests that the atmosphere is still punitive rather than asperiational. Khan is an absentee owner. There is nothing to admire in that particularly when we are struggling. God Bless Fayed for his scarf waving and insane pronouncements and yes for the Michael Jackson statue. Fulham was fun. It was mad. And there were years were played with no fear and could beat anyone. I want those years back. Khan doesn't know they existed.
I echo your wise words.
As do I.
Ok so it's not MAF's fault at all. It's not kits fault either but khan is trying to sell the club for flats and has devised our decline to make himself a profit of 1% of his net worth to destroy a 125 year old club. Now I get it, it makes perfect sense. How silly was I.
Quote from: Jonaldiniho 88 on August 21, 2015, 10:57:06 PM
I like khan. (Mainly on gut instinct which I can't argue with you about unless you want a stool sample). Not what's happened under him but I think a bigger picture needs to be looked at;
I think he has made decisions that could have gone either way.
They have all gone the wrong way.
That's unlucky.
They haven't all been bad decisions.
Some have.
Rather than doing a QPR he is sticking by the rules. This strikes me as honourable.
That gives me evidence he will honour the promises he has given us.
There are so many worse owners out there I'd rather the devil we know.
I like your style, but good intentions don't bring results. Some here are willing to see outside of the fishbowl and bring these questions about. I'll remained balanced, but I'm not so sure.
Quote from: The Rock on August 22, 2015, 12:30:22 AM
Quote from: Jonaldiniho 88 on August 21, 2015, 10:57:06 PM
I like khan. (Mainly on gut instinct which I can't argue with you about unless you want a stool sample). Not what's happened under him but I think a bigger picture needs to be looked at;
I think he has made decisions that could have gone either way.
They have all gone the wrong way.
That's unlucky.
They haven't all been bad decisions.
Some have.
Rather than doing a QPR he is sticking by the rules. This strikes me as honourable.
That gives me evidence he will honour the promises he has given us.
There are so many worse owners out there I'd rather the devil we know.
I like your style, but good intentions don't bring results. Some here are willing to see outside of the fishbowl and bring these questions about. I'll remained balanced, but I'm not so sure.
Thank you for such a reasoned response. I'm not sure either. It's all conjecture. We all want fulham to do well and I doubt khan wants any different.
blaming khan is moronic
he picked kit because we all wanted him, even i did.
Kit's at fault for this not khan, and khan is reluctant to sack kit because of the amount of managers we've had.
Quote from: Jonaldiniho 88 on August 21, 2015, 11:38:31 PM
Quote from: The Rock on August 21, 2015, 11:32:17 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on August 20, 2015, 03:31:04 PM
Quote from: Mighty Maik on August 20, 2015, 03:27:35 PM
Is it bashing Khan? I tend to think there is merit in Rock's view. Tony Khan's comment on twitter that they have come to "innovate" should send a shiver up our spines. Particularly since their innovation has, so far, cost us a place in the PL and looks set to see us mired in the Championship for ages. So too should the news that the club has applied for a variation in the planning so that they can build flats on the corners of the Riverside stand and underground parking (under the pitch) make us anxious. Are we back to the future? A club whose real value lies in the development of the ground into flats? If Khan is committed to the success of the club at the highest level he needs to demonstrate that ambition. Remember what Kit inherited. A club in disarray which had lost its soul on the pitch and was losing it rapidly off it. Magath wasn't just bad - he was poisonous. He took away the good will of the players and many of the fans. Everyone is dismayed at the state we are in. Is the new football structure working? Is Mike Rigg supportive or simply a threat to all of the playing staff's employment? Another post pointed out that we only played with freedom after Rotherham had its points deduction and we were safe. That observation feels true to me which suggests that the atmosphere is still punitive rather than asperiational. Khan is an absentee owner. There is nothing to admire in that particularly when we are struggling. God Bless Fayed for his scarf waving and insane pronouncements and yes for the Michael Jackson statue. Fulham was fun. It was mad. And there were years were played with no fear and could beat anyone. I want those years back. Khan doesn't know they existed.
I echo your wise words.
As do I.
Ok so it's not MAF's fault at all. It's not kits fault either but khan is trying to sell the club for flats and has devised our decline to make himself a profit of 1% of his net worth to destroy a 125 year old club. Now I get it, it makes perfect sense. How silly was I.
No, No, No, that was LAST years anti-Khan conspiracy theory! I do wish people would keep up with the Hate-Khan campaign press releases, this year it's all about him wanting to move the NFL games to the Cottage! I know it's tru, it was on the internet, and even more so, it was even on Farcebroke, so it HAS to be true.
Quote from: Craven Mad on August 21, 2015, 03:30:40 PM
Quote from: WayneKerrins on August 21, 2015, 03:14:56 PM
Cheers Rock.
Trouble is mate even when you set out facts a poster with over 2000 posts without a hint of irony says, and it's worthy of a new line,
"I think Khan has been brilliant so far".
Badly advised? maybe, unlucky? Perhaps, naive? Probably
But no apparently he's been "brilliant".
Jeesus wept....I mean genuinely wept...
And for the record I was one of the earliest and most vocal critics of the latter period Fayed cash squeeze which started the decline which that buffoon Jol hastened by a season or so. My beef with Khan is post relegation.
If you want to disagree with me, feel free, but there's no need to throw shade and be churlish about it; we have a difference of opinion, so what?
I can't disagree with the argument that Khan has owned us during our worst spell in 15-odd years, I just don't point the finger of blame at him for our results.
You want him to spend a % of his wealth on us, but he has spent a lot of money trying to fix the issue; Mitrog and Ross being just two examples of very expensive players he's bought us (before us, how many Championship teams spent £10m+ on a player?).
Khan's also tried changing things by bringing in new managers (possibly too many new managers), but with no success. He won't have picked those managers btw, he'll have been advised and told how much the severance deal would cost, and asked whether he'd sanction it - which he did..
My opinion - and this is where we obviously disagree - is that I don't think he's personally responsible for the predicament we're in, and as far as the job of owner goes (provide funds/improve the club as a whole), I genuinely - without a hint of irony - think he has been brilliant for the reasons I stated above. The one area which hasn't improved at all (and is notably worse) is results, but - as I've said - I think he's tried to remedy that issue by conventional means (money/managerial changes) to no effect, so now is taking some time for consolidation/stability, before embarking on more drastic changes.
I know we all want Khan to drop £50m on transfers, but it's not as simple as that (look at Bristol City) and it isn't guaranteed results (thanks, Mitrog) and can result in a far worse situation if we get an embargo (Blackburn Rovers, for example).
So, yeah, thanks for the criticism, but I have my opinion - which I feel is valid - and I'm happy to acknowledge yours without acting like a child about it...
Trying to constructively move this forward, would your opinion change at all if we sign both Gayle and Dunk before the end of the window? Cos there's still time...
Wasn't aware my post was in any way offensive.
Sorry but the reality is that Khan hasn't put in a bean post relegation whilst being ultimately accountable for a raft of wrong calls.
I simply am incredulous that that deserves the soubriquet " brilliant".
I respect your sincerity but cannot fathom how you can be so complimentary of a stewardship that has been disastrous from pretty much day 1 and has featured so many bad decisions, compounded, since relegation, with running a transfer surplus. I would say "debacle" when you say " brilliant".
Quote from: Arthur on August 21, 2015, 10:29:14 PM
Quote from: WayneKerrins on August 20, 2015, 03:24:01 PM
There are approximately 12 (seemingly genuine) Fulham fans who are defending Khan.
The facts we all know are:
1) he said he would do what it takes to take us back to the Prem
2) he said it wasn't always about balancing the books
3) in his December program notes he said the role of the academy was to stock the first team
4) in May he said there was a lot of work to be done on the squad to get it ready for "the start" of the season ( note not 1st Sept)
5) in the last 3 windows we are comfortably in transfer surplus..he hasnt put another dime in.
6) the jags have the biggest headroom on the NFL salary cap and a woeful record under Khans tenure.
7) he backed the decision to keep Kit despite about as near consensus ever seen from the fan base that he wasn't remotely the best man for the job
8) at time of writing our midfield is much improved if still unbalanced, our Defence and attack are much worse/slightly worse than the one that was close to relegation.
9) MJG has been told in his meetings with the club that 'make no mistake Mr Khan expects a top 6 finish.
Now for my opinion, given 1-9 how can so many posters who support our club not see that criticism of Khan's disastrous stewardship is warranted?
He is a self styled, voluntary, custodian who is presiding over a debacle. The current squad under the current manager haven't a snowballs chance in hell of making the play offs.
For the sake of a fraction of a % of his net worth he could bring in 3 players to make us genuine contenders whilst still complying with FFP. But here we are 3 games in with 1 point and 5 points at least spunked by fielding some of the same hapless defenders as last season and one whom wasn't even good enough to get into that defence is now playing on the wrong flank.
Given this and rooting this in the context of 1-9 how can anyone seriously be surprised that Khan is the subject of sustained criticism from many fans?
I mean seriously what don't you get?
I can tell you what I 'don't get':
I 'don't get' to the conclusion that Khan cares not whether we return to the PL.
I 'don't get' to the conclusion that he was naïve to accept advice from Alistair Mackintosh.
I 'don't get' to the conclusion that the likelihood of our being relegated would have been any the less had MAF remained as Chairman.
Whether or not you agree with my assessment, I do not know (but it would surprise me, of course, if you did); I am merely outlining why I think I feel less inclined to be critical of Khan than you.
I also think that some of your list of facts can be interpreted in different ways:
Fact 1) can be better assessed when the transfer window closes.
Fact 2) has surely been clarified by Rigg's recent statement that the Club would work within the rules of FFP.
Fact 3) is not referred to in your summary. It is not self-evident (to me) in what way you are holding this statement against our Chairman.
Fact 4) is, in an instance such as this, not to be taken literally. Doubtless many a chairman and manager use the term 'new season' in May. How many of them actually mean that there can be no transfer business between the opening fixture and the end of the transfer window?
Fact 5) is not something that I can verify without research, so I shall accept it. Is it not the case, however, that FFP regulations apply to more than just our transfer dealings. With a shortfall of tens-of-millions in our income following relegation, we had to balance our books. Could not a net transfer gain have been a means to an end?
Fact 6), if true (and I have no reason to doubt that it isn't), ostensibly adds weight to the notion that Khan doesn't 'do what it takes' (Fact 1). Knowing nothing about Gridiron, however, I wouldn't know whether (as in the case of Fact 5) there are mitigating circumstances. Even if there are none, on its own, it would not significantly influence my opinion.
Fact 7) is disingenuous: you ignore that the original 'near consensus' was for Symons' appointment in the first place. At the time, few, if any, supporters were expecting anything more than that he keep us up. I can understand why the Club refrained from sacking him at the end of last season.
Fact 8) is not a fact at all; it is an opinion. I shall spare you the details, but I am not entirely of the same opinion.
Fact 9) is, as far as I know, correct. I shall make the assumption that this relates to your opinion that there has been a lack of investment this summer.
Though we see Khan in a different light, I do not say that you are wrong. Until it is evident that the decline of the past two seasons is being reversed, my support will not be without its reservations. For me, time will tell.
Thanks for comprehensive response. On fact points:
1) yes, as Cravenmad suggests bringing in a quality CF and CB in the next week or so would improve his terrible post relegation track record. Leaving it a bit late Id suggest.
2) there are plenty of studies around on what headroom we have if we go to max FFP losses. Haven't seen one that suggests we didn't have £10m at least. We're currently in surplus.
3) his plan was to use quality kids to feed first team. In practice the best are leaving and he appointed and then persevered with Kit who clearly is more in favour of older, proven, champ performers.
4) no that's semantics. The season has well and truly started and I don't think any fan or Kit would say the tools were in place.
5) please see 2 above
6) noted
7) Not at all. The decision he got wrong, in my opinion, was persevering with KS when the season ended. Big majority of fans I knkw (100 plus) wanted him out and think majority of posters on forums had same view.
8) yes you're right. It's not measurable fact. Think defence opinion would be hard to argue against but happy to hear your view, similarly hard to say that Cairnwy Ohara and Pringles aren't on balance better than Ryiz. Again happy to hear your view. Up front we lost Hugo's pace and a fair few goals and got nothing in.did I miss something?
9) Noted
I guess ultimately time will tell. Thought today's attendance was a message of sorts.
Quote from: Mighty Maik on August 21, 2015, 04:33:57 PM
gezkc - Two is what was described to me. Each corner of the Riverside Stand. Of course, that would mean that the precedent for residential development would be established.
The analysis that the rot had started before Khan, is of course correct. MAF had, reportedly, been trying to sell the club for a bit and he naturally cashed out some of the assets (Dempsey and Dembele) before he did. We were caught in the trap of loan deals for high profile players that inflated our wage bill while making us look desireable to a non-discerning eye. "Total Football" remember? - Which turned out to be a bunch of individual egos doing whatever they wanted once in a while. A far cry from the organised years of Hodgson (and indeed Tigana!!) with lesser known players punching well above their presumed weight game after game. God bless, 'Bairdiniho', Gera, and all the others that were under rated but outstanding for Fulham.
Yes, I guess we'll disagree, Craven Mad, but I'll still go to the game believing we can win even when all the evidence says we won't - and I'll cheer with you when we do. And I'll still be cross when Khan disapears at half-time and doesn't come back. But I won't blame Kit for the mess Khan and Lamping have caused while saying they are committed to the future of the club. Right now, for me, Kit is a grafter and Khan appears to be a grifter - true to the homophone of his name - until he backs up his ambition with a constructive and well executed plan to improve the club.
A Grifter?
So someone who starts education in a new country at 16, works his way through that education washing dishes, and then once graduated BSc in Industrial Engineering after 4 years gains a position as a Director by the age of 21, then creates his own company with a small loan at the age of 28, and finally buying out the original company that hired him, building it further so it supplies the US Auto manufacturers, is a grifter?
What kind of success solely off your own back have you had that makes Khan a grifter then? He's done a lot and gained a lot from his own hard work, and has been a damn sight more successful at it than a lot of people I know.
You might not like the guy, you might hate him for what you and some people perceive to be his failure to return our club back to where we believe we should be, but when you start insulting him in that way, you need something to back it up.
