That's twice now he has had an absolute blinder for Wales and Cookie, yet for us most have the opinion he is poor. I don't mind him for us but that's not the majorities opinion of him. Is that just coincidence or does Cookie set up Wales a different way to Kit which gets the best out of him?
Also the boy can cross a mean ball but he never does for us for some reason. Its like two different players
I think its that to an extent. Cookie has his instructions for Jazz and Kit has the same. You would think, with Kit having been recently with the Welsh set up that he would be privy to that information. It would benefit the team if Kit were to give Cookie a ring. You also have to factor in the opponent. Im sure that Cyprus were a bit easier to overcome than most of the teams in the league, not taking anything away from his performance, it was quite brilliant. He was playing wing back with Bale ahead of him, that has to help a bit.
Its a different kind of football at international level and he seems to me a quiet character, so maybe he needs a bit of personal geeing up.
As a pro sportsman he shouldn't need geeing up but it takes all sorts and its down to the coaching staff to spot individuals needs and deal with them.
With all the concentration on statistics these days I wonder if the benefits of the old fashioned arm around the shoulder or the hair dryer treatment has been forgotten.
I've always been of the opinion that it's easier for certain players to get motivated for the occasional game for their country versus the constant game for their club. It seems like perhaps Jazz is one of these players, but that's just my opinion.
Kit was with him in the wales squad, so I'm sure he knows what makes him tick. I don't think he has been as poor as people have made out when he pulls on a Fulham shirt.
It's the looking for a scapegoat thing, and he is it for the moment.
International football obviously means a lot more to him, I don't think we can blame a born and bred welshman for caring more about the result of a wales game than a fulham game.
I suppose that's why he's with us- because Kit knows him, and his quality, and he knows Kit.
Playing for Wales is playing for a different, national, team, against different opponents- with a different manager, yes, but I would think that Kit must be on a similar wavelength to Cookie, if Cookie wanted him for his assistant.
Richards is being asked to play a different role in a different team.
Both teams he plays for have had a large amount of Symons' input, so the reason for percieved differences in performance can hardly be sensibly placed there.
Quote from: Chutney on September 04, 2015, 08:10:35 AM
International football obviously means a lot more to him, I don't think we can blame a born and bred welshman for caring more about the result of a wales game than a fulham game.
I'm sure as a pro, who has made a conscious decision to play for Fulham, he always gives his best, but pulling on the Welsh shirt, with the Welsh crowd behind him, might well give him an extra spring in his step- and playing with the likes of Bale!
But Fulham is his bread and butter, where his career will be judged on what he achieves with the team, so I don't expect anything less than 100% from him, and I'm sure he gives this when he wears the white shirt.
The immigrant/refugee crisis - is that Kit's fault, too ?
I have not seen the Welsh squad but would suggest that it could be the players around him that determine how good he looks, just a thought.
Would point out that although Bale gets all the love the Welsh success is built upon firstly a solid, if not settled, defence. Jazz is one piece in a jigsaw and is playing his part as desired. The defence have been well drilled and work together well which if memory serves me correct we were lucky enough to also have under Coleman at least while he had some cash to invest in a player or too.
Just putting it out there but does anyone else think Kit leaving Wales could be a bad thing? Certainly from what we've seen over the last 12 months he is no defensive mastermind...
It seems at Fulham (and not just for Jazz) that errors happen when the unit as a whole messes up and someone ends up trying to do too much.
As an aside Kit commented on SSN that he advised Coleman not to go with 3-5-2 last night. Coleman disregarded that advice despite us only having 1 CB! In effect we had 1 CB, 2 LB and 2 RB.
Really don't want to Kit bash but am confident with some improved defensive drilling and coaching we could be as effective as that Welsh unit, if not more with the signings we have made....
I'm not quite sure what formation the Welsh played last night, on several occassions it looked like they played 3 upfront, and frequently 4 at the back, although it was definately fluid.
I'm not sure it was a 3-5-2 or even a 4-3-3 or a 4-4-2. Anywhichway it was effective in getting a result on what looked to be a dog of a pitch.
Quote from: Fulham1959 on September 04, 2015, 08:37:03 AM
The immigrant/refugee crisis - is that Kit's fault, too ?
I like Jazz so this isn't a pop at kit or the player. But in the two games I saw for Wales it wasn't the same player I see at the Cottage. I agree with others he is becoming a scapegoat but at international level he looks superb.
Just wondered if Kit was using him the same way Wales do and if maybe there was a way of changing our tactics to get the best our of him. No need for the sarcasm as I wasn't hating on Kit
Quote from: Fulham1959 on September 04, 2015, 08:37:03 AM
The immigrant/refugee crisis - is that Kit's fault, too ?
Good point. I'm sure some are saving that one for an emergency, such as Fulham going on a winning streak.
Quote from: Fulham1959 on September 04, 2015, 08:37:03 AM
The immigrant/refugee crisis - is that Kit's fault, too ?
Probably.
ok, the reason is simple. Wales play 3 at the back with Jazz just infront opperating as a wing back. This gives him more cover behind and the room to go forward a lot more. As for his crossing fro Fulham, he put in an excellent cross which Dembele headed well and Pringle put in the rebound for our first goal. The other difference is that we have never had a settled back 4. With Stearman and Ream about to make a permanent central defensive pairing we will have better cover and better players alongside which will again make Jazz look better. I can't decide if we should try 3-5-2 like Wales, having Bale allows them to concentrate more on defence and let him get the goals, so at the moment I would stick with 4-4-2 for Fulham.
Quote from: snarks on September 04, 2015, 08:10:33 AM
I don't think he has been as poor as people have made out when he pulls on a Fulham shirt.
I would agree that this season he has not played badly at all. Yes, despite this, he is prone to notable errors of judgement (such as the challenge that conceded the penalty last weekend). This, however, is why he's playing in the Championship; if he were able to reproduce last night's performance every week, he'd be at a club in the PL.
I was not in London when Kit used to play for us so I did not see them playing together
It might just have something to do with the quality of the players Jazz had to play with up until now
Hopefully all of our recent additions will allow him to blossom for us too
Quote from: FulhamStu on September 04, 2015, 09:46:58 AM
ok, the reason is simple. Wales play 3 at the back with Jazz just infront opperating as a wing back. This gives him more cover behind and the room to go forward a lot more. As for his crossing fro Fulham, he put in an excellent cross which Dembele headed well and Pringle put in the rebound for our first goal. The other difference is that we have never had a settled back 4. With Stearman and Ream about to make a permanent central defensive pairing we will have better cover and better players alongside which will again make Jazz look better. I can't decide if we should try 3-5-2 like Wales, having Bale allows them to concentrate more on defence and let him get the goals, so at the moment I would stick with 4-4-2 for Fulham.
Can I point out the 3-5-2 is not the usual formation, this point seems to be missed. Due to injuries and suspension as a one off we played 3-5-2. Usually we play 4-5-1 with Gunter, Chester, Williams, Jazz. in the back four as we did against Belgium both home and away.
I have no doubt having a settled team helps but think the Fulham issue is coaching as opposed to personnel...
Ive seen him give away two identical penalties already this season in the space of 9 games (inc pre season), pretty sure he did one as well last season. Hes too rash in his tackles when hes lost his man, needs to improve his positional play when defending...which lets not forget is his main job remit.
The Internationals are on the whole of a lower level than most Championship games. So not so much Jekyll and Hyde. However Richards played very well in the last few league games so I guess we tend to forget his good performances.
Quote from: MJG on September 04, 2015, 10:26:48 AM
Ive seen him give away two identical penalties already this season in the space of 9 games (inc pre season), pretty sure he did one as well last season. Hes too rash in his tackles when hes lost his man, needs to improve his positional play when defending...which lets not forget is his main job remit.
But why so good for Wales? Is it our tactics or more to do with the players concentration levels and motivation to play for his country
Quote from: MJG on September 04, 2015, 10:26:48 AM
Ive seen him give away two identical penalties already this season in the space of 9 games (inc pre season), pretty sure he did one as well last season. Hes too rash in his tackles when hes lost his man, needs to improve his positional play when defending...which lets not forget is his main job remit.
Agreed, also as he's not the tallest has been caught out now and then with crossfield diagonals going over his head.
Quote from: dannyboi-ffc on September 04, 2015, 10:28:22 AM
Quote from: MJG on September 04, 2015, 10:26:48 AM
Ive seen him give away two identical penalties already this season in the space of 9 games (inc pre season), pretty sure he did one as well last season. Hes too rash in his tackles when hes lost his man, needs to improve his positional play when defending...which lets not forget is his main job remit.
But why so good for Wales? Is it our tactics or more to do with the players concentration levels and motivation to play for his country
Not having watched the games but sounds like hes more a wing back for Wales than a right back.
So the right sided CB is the one most likely to go across and deal with wingers attacking the box while Jazz is further up field doing his defensive work (away from his own box which must be a relief to all welsh supporters)
Richards main problem is his positional play in a Fulham shirt, but to me that comes from the centre backs and the keeper. Working as a unit means he won't get caught on the wrong side of his player so much.
Quote from: os5889 mkII on September 04, 2015, 10:17:14 AM
Quote from: FulhamStu on September 04, 2015, 09:46:58 AM
ok, the reason is simple. Wales play 3 at the back with Jazz just infront opperating as a wing back. This gives him more cover behind and the room to go forward a lot more. As for his crossing fro Fulham, he put in an excellent cross which Dembele headed well and Pringle put in the rebound for our first goal. The other difference is that we have never had a settled back 4. With Stearman and Ream about to make a permanent central defensive pairing we will have better cover and better players alongside which will again make Jazz look better. I can't decide if we should try 3-5-2 like Wales, having Bale allows them to concentrate more on defence and let him get the goals, so at the moment I would stick with 4-4-2 for Fulham.
Can I point out the 3-5-2 is not the usual formation, this point seems to be missed. Due to injuries and suspension as a one off we played 3-5-2. Usually we play 4-5-1 with Gunter, Chester, Williams, Jazz. in the back four as we did against Belgium both home and away.
I have no doubt having a settled team helps but think the Fulham issue is coaching as opposed to personnel...
I will stand corrected but was sure Wales played 3 at the back in the home Belgium game.
Quote from: MJG on September 04, 2015, 11:46:17 AM
Quote from: dannyboi-ffc on September 04, 2015, 10:28:22 AM
Quote from: MJG on September 04, 2015, 10:26:48 AM
Ive seen him give away two identical penalties already this season in the space of 9 games (inc pre season), pretty sure he did one as well last season. Hes too rash in his tackles when hes lost his man, needs to improve his positional play when defending...which lets not forget is his main job remit.
But why so good for Wales? Is it our tactics or more to do with the players concentration levels and motivation to play for his country
Not having watched the games but sounds like hes more a wing back for Wales than a right back.
So the right sided CB is the one most likely to go across and deal with wingers attacking the box while Jazz is further up field doing his defensive work (away from his own box which must be a relief to all welsh supporters)
This is true, he is further forward, but does cover back. The 3rd central defender comes accross to cover so Jazz is not normally exposed in the penalty area. Bottom line, any decent defence is good as a unit. Kit has all new defenders to mould into a compact unit. Can he do this - well he bloody well should be able too.
I think he would benefit as being part of a back 5, allowing him to get forward more often whilst having a bit of extra cover when defending.
My sentiments are proving right from the thread I made!
He's decent going forwards but can't defend - he's a wing-back not a full-back.
Quote from: dannyboi-ffc on September 04, 2015, 09:22:41 AM
Quote from: Fulham1959 on September 04, 2015, 08:37:03 AM
The immigrant/refugee crisis - is that Kit's fault, too ?
I like Jazz so this isn't a pop at kit or the player. But in the two games I saw for Wales it wasn't the same player I see at the Cottage. I agree with others he is becoming a scapegoat but at international level he looks superb.
Just wondered if Kit was using him the same way Wales do and if maybe there was a way of changing our tactics to get the best our of him. No need for the sarcasm as I wasn't hating on Kit
That's fair enough.
