This isn't knee-jerk, I've just absolutely had a bloody gut full now, and I'm pretty sure others have to. This isn't a coincidence any more, this is down to man management / coaching issues, and how it's allowed to continue, is bloody beyond me. Please can we get a competent manager in who can perform the the basics like defending corners, set pieces and see games out at 90+6 minutes.
We are going NO WHERE under Kit Symon's, this season is another absolute waste.
Please remove him.
Amen.
Like the bloke. I think.
But, signed. I don't care if he'll one day be a good manager. He's not at the moment and we should be pushing for promotion with this squad.
:plus one: :dead horse:
Please can you respect him sufficiently to spell his name correctly?
Quote from: Twig on October 04, 2015, 02:09:41 PM
Please can you respect him sufficiently to spell his name correctly?
At this point, I really couldn't care how his names is spelt.
OUT
Quote from: Twig on October 04, 2015, 02:09:41 PM
Please can you respect him sufficiently to spell his name correctly?
Kit Symons, Kit Symon's don't matter how you spell it the man just ain't up to the job.
just don't see how the manager could be blamed for that in a million years - lack of discipline and concentration by quite a few players
I think it's fairly obvious, it's not this forum you need to persuade. Sorry Kit, I have to agree with them. The exit is that way.
One last thing, please please let's not resort to insults
OK. You Kit out people name me a manager to take his place. Don´t dare mention Allardyce, Pulis, Holloway & Lee Clarke.
Quote from: Baszab on October 04, 2015, 02:16:33 PM
just don't see how the manager could be blamed for that in a million years - lack of discipline and concentration by quite a few players
Because it's every game. No matter who the players are. I'd like to see how many goals overall we've conceded from set plays - I'd be willing to bet it's twice as many as the next highest. That's down to coaching.
Quote from: grandad on October 04, 2015, 02:34:14 PM
OK. You Kit out people name me a manager to take his place. Don´t dare mention Allardyce, Pulis, Holloway & Lee Clarke.
Jose Mourinho may be available soon. 064.gif fp.gif 079.gif
ladies and lads remember what he said....."maybe we should do more repetitive drills at the back - but the players find it boring".....that result today sums up the need for more repetitive drills....or are we going to go another season conceding from set pieces......I'm thinking maybe it is time to get the players really really bored
Quote from: Baszab on October 04, 2015, 02:16:33 PM
just don't see how the manager could be blamed for that in a million years - lack of discipline and concentration by quite a few players
He is to blame. The 11 that were on the pitch were running the game, he took O'Hara off who was bossing the game, he took Demeble off who was linking well with McCormack. Pretty easy to see really who was to blame.
Quote from: grandad on October 04, 2015, 02:34:14 PM
OK. You Kit out people name me a manager to take his place. Don´t dare mention Allardyce, Pulis, Holloway & Lee Clarke.
Allardyce all day long.
The substitutions today were the stuff of an amateur......just hope Garbut hasn't got it written in his contract that he has to play so many games for us
Quote from: grandad on October 04, 2015, 02:34:14 PM
OK. You Kit out people name me a manager to take his place. Don´t dare mention Allardyce, Pulis, Holloway & Lee Clarke.
lets look at who we could have got from last time see if they are still avaliable
Houghton now at brighton top of the league
Clarke now at Reading 3rd in the league
Clement Now at Derby 7th in the League
Lennon the only man to be doing worse then Kit but the club is basically bankrupt
You see its not all down to the players the manager has a lot to do with turning a club around
So basically we ballsed up in appointing the man in the first place and now with Dick leaving Sunderland that wil another good manager out of the pool we can attract.
We might be able to tempt Dyche if he doesnt go to sunderland, Dont think Burton will let Hasslebank go, Mowbrey turning Coventry around basically get rid of Kit lets see who applies we might be lucky and get Big Sam
Paul Lambert is currently out of a job, miles better than Kit, and will most likely get you out of this division. Worry about the Premiership when and if we get there. I just want Kit gone, so early in, and another waste of a bloody season. OUT.
Hummm. Not much out there is there.
Quote from: grandad on October 04, 2015, 03:24:24 PM
Hummm. Not much out there is there.
Grandad, in all due respect, all you are trying to do, is defend the guy without physically saying it, by saying "Well who else then" which gets right up my nose, and I don't know why people do it.
I'm sorry, but people like Big Sam, Paul Lambert, and the other names mentioned above, are a vast improvement over Kit, so it's down to the ambitions of the Club.
Quote from: Wearethewhites on October 04, 2015, 03:28:18 PM
Quote from: grandad on October 04, 2015, 03:24:24 PM
Hummm. Not much out there is there.
Grandad, in all due respect, all you are trying to do, is defend the guy without physically saying it, by saying "Well who else then" which gets right up my nose, and I don't know why people do it.
I'm sorry, but people like Big Sam, Paul Lambert, and the other names mentioned above, are a vast improvement over Kit, so it's down to the ambitions of the Club.
I reckon stevie wonder could see where we are going wrong, better than kit could
Quote from: fulhamben on October 04, 2015, 03:29:43 PM
Quote from: Wearethewhites on October 04, 2015, 03:28:18 PM
Quote from: grandad on October 04, 2015, 03:24:24 PM
Hummm. Not much out there is there.
Grandad, in all due respect, all you are trying to do, is defend the guy without physically saying it, by saying "Well who else then" which gets right up my nose, and I don't know why people do it.
I'm sorry, but people like Big Sam, Paul Lambert, and the other names mentioned above, are a vast improvement over Kit, so it's down to the ambitions of the Club.
I reckon stevie wonder could see where we are going wrong, better than kit could
As I've quoted before, conceding like we do, from every set piece and corner, is a tactical / coaching issue, and not down to individual player errors. I don't buy all this "Well, they're human" bull, it's a poor excuse, and is above and beyond a coincidence now. Still, some people will continue to defend Kit, but I want this club to be much more ambitious than they are. In my eye's, this is another wasted season that culd have be prevented.
Quote from: Wearethewhites on October 04, 2015, 03:19:39 PM
Paul Lambert is currently out of a job, miles better than Kit, and will most likely get you out of this division. Worry about the Premiership when and if we get there. I just want Kit gone, so early in, and another waste of a bloody season. OUT.
I'll say again what I've been saying since February: Lambert in!..
Quote from: Wearethewhites on October 04, 2015, 03:41:05 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on October 04, 2015, 03:29:43 PM
Quote from: Wearethewhites on October 04, 2015, 03:28:18 PM
Quote from: grandad on October 04, 2015, 03:24:24 PM
Hummm. Not much out there is there.
Grandad, in all due respect, all you are trying to do, is defend the guy without physically saying it, by saying "Well who else then" which gets right up my nose, and I don't know why people do it.
I'm sorry, but people like Big Sam, Paul Lambert, and the other names mentioned above, are a vast improvement over Kit, so it's down to the ambitions of the Club.
I reckon stevie wonder could see where we are going wrong, better than kit could
As I've quoted before, conceding like we do, from every set piece and corner, is a tactical / coaching issue, and not down to individual player errors. I don't buy all this "Well, they're human" bull, it's a poor excuse, and is above and beyond a coincidence now. Still, some people will continue to defend Kit, but I want this club to be much more ambitious than they are. In my eye's, this is another wasted season that culd have be prevented.
Its a fitness issue. Ridiculous how many late goals we concede and how we can't control the game against a really poor Charlton side for the last 15 minutes..
It was 100% poor tactics. We put all our effort into time wasting rather than holding the ball, passing it around and frustrating a poor Charlton side. If we get rid of Kit by Christmas.. There's a small chance we could get play-offs. I really doubt we will though. I just can't see him going unless we go down. I think they want a Wenger or Ferguson scenario... They just don't realise it's Kit Symmons who we have..
Lets not paper over the cracks ,with the football we have played this season we will finish the wrong end of the league, our defending is not good enough, our passing at times in woeful, How many back passes did we make today, Oh for an Alec Stock or woy who believed the opposition can't score if its in their half. The subs today were stupid Dembele was winning most Aeriel battle and had defended well at corners .O'Hara was holding the ball up and we replace him. Sorry I have joined the taxi for Kit brigade
Quote from: grandad on October 04, 2015, 02:34:14 PM
OK. You Kit out people name me a manager to take his place. Don´t dare mention Allardyce, Pulis, Holloway & Lee Clarke.
The tea lady.
Paul Lambert is tailor made for Fulham, lots of managerial changes are traditionally made in October lets do ours early before the likes of Lambert are gone,
How the hell can a manager like Lambert be out of work when a man like Symons is in work managing a club like Fulham ?
Check out Lambert's record at both Colchester and Norwich , knows this league, and would be a good signing,
Two week break now to integrate a new manager , knowing Fulham they will wait until Middlesbrough hammer us then act !
Quote from: Riversider on October 04, 2015, 05:20:49 PM
Paul Lambert is tailor made for Fulham, lots of managerial changes are traditionally made in October lets do ours early before the likes of Lambert are gone,
How the hell can a manager like Lambert be out of work when a man like Symons is in work managing a club like Fulham ?
Check out Lambert's record at both Colchester and Norwich , knows this league, and would be a good signing,
Two week break now to integrate a new manager , knowing Fulham they will wait until Middlesbrough hammer us then act !
My thoughts exactly. I think if we tried we'd get him. Can't believe he is still out of work unless he has been turning down jobs...
Quote from: Wearethewhites on October 04, 2015, 03:41:05 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on October 04, 2015, 03:29:43 PM
Quote from: Wearethewhites on October 04, 2015, 03:28:18 PM
Quote from: grandad on October 04, 2015, 03:24:24 PM
Hummm. Not much out there is there.
Grandad, in all due respect, all you are trying to do, is defend the guy without physically saying it, by saying "Well who else then" which gets right up my nose, and I don't know why people do it.
I'm sorry, but people like Big Sam, Paul Lambert, and the other names mentioned above, are a vast improvement over Kit, so it's down to the ambitions of the Club.
I reckon stevie wonder could see where we are going wrong, better than kit could
As I've quoted before, conceding like we do, from every set piece and corner, is a tactical / coaching issue, and not down to individual player errors. I don't buy all this "Well, they're human" bull, it's a poor excuse, and is above and beyond a coincidence now. Still, some people will continue to defend Kit, but I want this club to be much more ambitious than they are. In my eye's, this is another wasted season that culd have be prevented.
I think you are correct when you say tactical but not coaching, these are very experienced championship defenders, do they really need to be coached all the time.
He'll see out this season.
Love how OTT and unrealistic this board is sometimes. Genuinely makes me laugh.
Quote from: beijing ben on October 06, 2015, 10:16:16 AM
Quote from: Riversider on October 04, 2015, 05:20:49 PM
Paul Lambert is tailor made for Fulham, lots of managerial changes are traditionally made in October lets do ours early before the likes of Lambert are gone,
How the hell can a manager like Lambert be out of work when a man like Symons is in work managing a club like Fulham ?
Check out Lambert's record at both Colchester and Norwich , knows this league, and would be a good signing,
Two week break now to integrate a new manager , knowing Fulham they will wait until Middlesbrough hammer us then act !
My thoughts exactly. I think if we tried we'd get him. Can't believe he is still out of work unless he has been turning down jobs...
If he did join us we'd also have to employ a translator because with that thick Scottish accent I could never understand a bloody word he said when he was being interviewed!
Apparently Lamberts looking towards the Sunderland Job, according to the Birmingham Mail.
Seriously folks, I think Roy would get us out of this division as well as a bunch of others that would not consider us in their futures either.
As for 'those we could have gone for' in the past, it's another list of pipe-dreams. Lets get realistic, in the same way that we were never going to be chasing promotion this season, if we are going to look to change Managers, then look at replacements that are likely to take the job, bearing in mind the other vacancies that are available at the moment.
Kit has steadied the ship, we are a stronger proposition than last season, and we now have the makings of a decent side.
If the club are after a top 6 finish this season then Kit will fail. We have "solid mid-table side" written all over us this season. On that basis, they could get rid of Kit now and bring in someone with more of a track record to get us to where we need to be. Who that "someone" is, I don't know... We can't live off past glories and expect seasoned premier league managers to come down to our level. Equally there's no point in replacing Kit with someone equally inexperienced, or less experienced (e.g. Danny Murphy). If there is no Plan B, then stick with Kit.
If the club are prepared to use this season as one where we build the foundations for a promotion push next season then I think Kit should be given 10-15 more games to see if he really can learn and develop.
The guy is still learning his trade, which is difficult at the Championship level in an unforgiving environment when club and fans alike expect instant success.
Quote from: Burt on October 06, 2015, 12:34:08 PM
Kit has steadied the ship, we are a stronger proposition than last season, and we now have the makings of a decent side.
If the club are after a top 6 finish this season then Kit will fail. We have "solid mid-table side" written all over us this season. On that basis, they could get rid of Kit now and bring in someone with more of a track record to get us to where we need to be. Who that "someone" is, I don't know... We can't live off past glories and expect seasoned premier league managers to come down to our level. Equally there's no point in replacing Kit with someone equally inexperienced, or less experienced (e.g. Danny Murphy). If there is no Plan B, then stick with Kit.
If the club are prepared to use this season as one where we build the foundations for a promotion push next season then I think Kit should be given 10-15 more games to see if he really can learn and develop.
The guy is still learning his trade, which is difficult at the Championship level in an unforgiving environment when club and fans alike expect instant success.
We cant afford 10 - 15 more games like we have had so far excluding QPR to see IF he can learn and develope, gates will be down to 8/9000, hardly building for the future.
I don't think as fans, we are expecting instant success.
However, waiting for a year to see some significant improvement in the way that we play, and still not seeing any, entitles us to question Kit, the backroom staff - everybody!
I'd love to say KIT OUT, but who is out there who is a) available, and able to make a significant improvement, quickly and b) who wants to manage Fulham?
I don't think Paul Lambert is the answer. He probably thinks that he's good enough to be a Premier League manager again, so will wait for a call. His Villa payoff should ensure that he doesn't go hungry just yet. I would think that Warburton could be tempted back from Scottish Land, if the club wanted him, Laudrup may be pleased to have an excuse to leave the Middle East, although the team would probably be full of Spanish players (Michu, anyone?). The club could even eat the biggest slice of humble pie known to mankind, and kiss the arse of Rene a million times, and beg every hour for a month (just in time for the January transfer window to open), in the hope that he swallows his pride, and forgives us for treating him like a c***, and agrees to come back to us, WITHOUT Curbs and butch 'helping' him.
I can but dream.
Some fans have wanted him gone since before the end of last season. Since then he has rebuilt a squad although some still insist it had nothing to do with him. In which case they can't have a go at the manager if none of the players coming in had anything to do with him.
Yes it was a poor tactical error on Sunday. Yes we need pace in the side and we need a forward. But we were always just looking for improvement compared to last season. If fans are foolish enough to believe the drivel the club dribbled out concerning promotion then they deserve to be disappointed.
Symons, as I said at the beginning of the season, I reckon will have until Christmas before the club make any changes if they are going to.
He has had over a year in charge. More than enough time to get to grips with the job.
He wanted a window where he can build his squad, which he has.
Promotion is the aim for him and the club, is he achieving it after 10 games? No.
Are the glaring errors from last season still apparent? Yes, no width, slow attacking, conceding many set pieces, too many late goals.
Does he ever fill you with confidence in his interviews, and directly point out what's going wrong? No.
Does he still have only one plan? Yes.
Is he a proactive manager? No. Subs are always after goals and just completely wrong all together.
Is he as tactically inept manager, way out of his depth? Yes.
Quote from: Wimbledon_White on October 06, 2015, 11:38:26 AM
He'll see out this season.
Love how OTT and unrealistic this board is sometimes. Genuinely makes me laugh.
So, if he has us hovering just above the relegation places again, which is a big possibility based on his current form, you still think that he'll see the season out do you? That's based on your opinion, and woe betide anyone on this Forum that disagrees with you, or they'll be called laughable, unrealistic, or even worse the "C" word over PM.
Quote from: J.Perkins on October 06, 2015, 01:39:09 PM
He has had over a year in charge. More than enough time to get to grips with the job.
He wanted a window where he can build his squad, which he has.
Promotion is the aim for him and the club, is he achieving it after 10 games? No.
Are the glaring errors from last season still apparent? Yes, no width, slow attacking, conceding many set pieces, too many late goals.
Does he ever fill you with confidence in his interviews, and directly point out what's going wrong? No.
Does he still have only one plan? Yes.
Is he a proactive manager? No. Subs are always after goals and just completely wrong all together.
Is he as tactically inept manager, way out of his depth? Yes.
One of the best posts for a long time. The criticism doesn't have to be insulting, personal or a know it all story waffling on as if you know better.
But when put simply and honestly like yours I find it unbelievable anyone can argue with what you've said. The proactive question is absolutely bang on the money. He only reacts during a game after we concede, he never changes things to prevent the goal in the first place.
Very much a cross my fingers and hope type of manager. I never feel like he is in control.
I must say though, I don't want to be associated with the insults from others. No matter how frustrating he is I don't think he deserves that. And let's not allow our frustration to turn into ammunition to those who defend Kit. On both sides there are members that ruin these debates because they portray themselves as smarter or superior to the opposite camp.
I wish more posts analysing Kit were like yours including my own!
Quote from: Wearethewhites on October 06, 2015, 01:47:30 PM
Quote from: Wimbledon_White on October 06, 2015, 11:38:26 AM
He'll see out this season.
Love how OTT and unrealistic this board is sometimes. Genuinely makes me laugh.
So, if he has us hovering just above the relegation places again, which is a big possibility based on his current form, you still think that he'll see the season out do you? That's based on your opinion, and woe betide anyone on this Forum that disagrees with you, or they'll be called laughable, unrealistic, or even worse the "C" word over PM.
You're so boring WATW.
We won't be in a relegation battle. We'll be solidly mid-table and flirting with the playoff places. That should be applauded given the crap he inherited.
As for the rest of your (as ever) overly aggressive nonsense...consider your bait well and truly unsuccessful.
TTFN old boy.
Quote from: dannyboi-ffc on October 06, 2015, 03:56:53 PM
Quote from: J.Perkins on October 06, 2015, 01:39:09 PM
He has had over a year in charge. More than enough time to get to grips with the job.
He wanted a window where he can build his squad, which he has.
Promotion is the aim for him and the club, is he achieving it after 10 games? No.
Are the glaring errors from last season still apparent? Yes, no width, slow attacking, conceding many set pieces, too many late goals.
Does he ever fill you with confidence in his interviews, and directly point out what's going wrong? No.
Does he still have only one plan? Yes.
Is he a proactive manager? No. Subs are always after goals and just completely wrong all together.
Is he as tactically inept manager, way out of his depth? Yes.
One of the best posts for a long time. The criticism doesn't have to be insulting, personal or a know it all story waffling on as if you know better.
But when put simply and honestly like yours I find it unbelievable anyone can argue with what you've said. The proactive question is absolutely bang on the money. He only reacts during a game after we concede, he never changes things to prevent the goal in the first place.
Very much a cross my fingers and hope type of manager. I never feel like he is in control.
I must say though, I don't want to be associated with the insults from others. No matter how frustrating he is I don't think he deserves that. And let's not allow our frustration to turn into ammunition to those who defend Kit. On both sides there are members that ruin these debates because they portray themselves as smarter or superior to the opposite camp.
I wish more posts analysing Kit were like yours including my own!
I feel the need to weigh in here to try to provide a bit of balance.
I don't think it's "one of the best posts for a long time". It is not really an analysis. It is a list of pertinent questions to which the poster has provided his own, brief, answers. Some of the answers are inaccurate and some are merely opinion.
Promotion is the aim for him and the club, is he achieving it after 10 games? No. OK. We are not in a promotion place. But promotion is not decided after 10 games.
Are the glaring errors from last season still apparent? Yes, no width, slow attacking, conceding many set pieces, too many late goals. I'd partly agree with this. Set pieces do not seem to have been addressed and late goals may be seen as a problem (we have, including the two on Sunday, conceded four goals after the 80th minute whereas, other than 3 injury time jobs, we haven't scored at all after the 69th minute). But I would argue that we have played with greater width and with (slightly) more pace this year.
Does he ever fill you with confidence in his interviews, and directly point out what's going wrong? No. I'd say 'No', too. But I don't think this is relevant. Personally I find almost all manager's interviews dull, formulaic, uninformative and predictable and would just as soon do without them.
Does he still have only one plan? Yes. I'm not sure about that, so I'll concede this point.
Is he as tactically inept manager, way out of his depth? Yes. Just an opinion - to which, of course, we are all entitled.
Is he a proactive manager? No. Subs are always after goals and just completely wrong all together. This is just plain wrong. Goals/subs details for our 10 games:
Cardiff - F. goal 47'
C. 86'
Fulham made 1 sub. Moussa for Smith 78'.
Brighton - F. 43'
B. 30', 94'
Fulham subs. Kaka for Pringle 62', Moussa for Smith 83'
Hull - F. 69'
H. 34', 86'
Fulham subs. Lonners for Betts and Moussa for Smith 45' INJ, 87' Kaka for Pringle
Huddersfield - F. 94'
H. 63'
Fulham subs Bod for Hutch 10' INJ, Cauley for Kaka 74'
Rotherham - F. 7', 16', 93'
R. 72'
Fulham subs. Cauley for Moussa 76', LVC for Ross 82', Kaka for Pringle (so he could get an ovation)
Blackburn - F. 4', 30'
B. 68'
Fulham subs. Fred for Pringle 62', Burn for Husband 89'
Sheffield W - F. 31', 67'
S. 13', 37', 50'
Fulham subs. Burn for Pringle 46', LVC for Husband 57', Cauley for Moussa 62'
QPR - F. 2', 19', 31', 63'
Fulham subs. LVC for O'Hara 65', Cauley for Moussa 76', 77' Voser for Fred
Wolves - W. 56', 59', 78'
Fulham subs. LVC for Pringle 60', Voser for Fred 75', Matilla for O'Hara
Charlton - F. 32', 59'
C. 81', 96'
Fulham subs. Garbutt for Pringle 60', Cauley for Dembele 75', Matilla for O'Hara 90
There actually seems to be a deal of consistency about the subs which, apart from Sunday's retrospective disaster of bringing off O'Hara, seem reasonably sensible. Pringle gets subbed a lot does't he? Cauley for Dembele seems a reasonable plan (which has worked twice).
Incidentally, on the 'proactive' front I can't, at this moment, see how it could be proved that a substitution had prevented a goal which, by definition, has not been scored!
Quote from: cmg on October 06, 2015, 05:52:06 PM
Quote from: dannyboi-ffc on October 06, 2015, 03:56:53 PM
Quote from: J.Perkins on October 06, 2015, 01:39:09 PM
He has had over a year in charge. More than enough time to get to grips with the job.
He wanted a window where he can build his squad, which he has.
Promotion is the aim for him and the club, is he achieving it after 10 games? No.
Are the glaring errors from last season still apparent? Yes, no width, slow attacking, conceding many set pieces, too many late goals.
Does he ever fill you with confidence in his interviews, and directly point out what's going wrong? No.
Does he still have only one plan? Yes.
Is he a proactive manager? No. Subs are always after goals and just completely wrong all together.
Is he as tactically inept manager, way out of his depth? Yes.
One of the best posts for a long time. The criticism doesn't have to be insulting, personal or a know it all story waffling on as if you know better.
But when put simply and honestly like yours I find it unbelievable anyone can argue with what you've said. The proactive question is absolutely bang on the money. He only reacts during a game after we concede, he never changes things to prevent the goal in the first place.
Very much a cross my fingers and hope type of manager. I never feel like he is in control.
I must say though, I don't want to be associated with the insults from others. No matter how frustrating he is I don't think he deserves that. And let's not allow our frustration to turn into ammunition to those who defend Kit. On both sides there are members that ruin these debates because they portray themselves as smarter or superior to the opposite camp.
I wish more posts analysing Kit were like yours including my own!
I feel the need to weigh in here to try to provide a bit of balance.
I don't think it's "one of the best posts for a long time". It is not really an analysis. It is a list of pertinent questions to which the poster has provided his own, brief, answers. Some of the answers are inaccurate and some are merely opinion.
Promotion is the aim for him and the club, is he achieving it after 10 games? No. OK. We are not in a promotion place. But promotion is not decided after 10 games.
Are the glaring errors from last season still apparent? Yes, no width, slow attacking, conceding many set pieces, too many late goals. I'd partly agree with this. Set pieces do not seem to have been addressed and late goals may be seen as a problem (we have, including the two on Sunday, conceded four goals after the 80th minute whereas, other than 3 injury time jobs, we haven't scored at all after the 69th minute). But I would argue that we have played with greater width and with (slightly) more pace this year.
Does he ever fill you with confidence in his interviews, and directly point out what's going wrong? No. I'd say 'No', too. But I don't think this is relevant. Personally I find almost all manager's interviews dull, formulaic, uninformative and predictable and would just as soon do without them.
Does he still have only one plan? Yes. I'm not sure about that, so I'll concede this point.
Is he as tactically inept manager, way out of his depth? Yes. Just an opinion - to which, of course, we are all entitled.
Is he a proactive manager? No. Subs are always after goals and just completely wrong all together. This is just plain wrong. Goals/subs details for our 10 games:
Cardiff - F. goal 47'
C. 86'
Fulham made 1 sub. Moussa for Smith 78'.
Brighton - F. 43'
B. 30', 94'
Fulham subs. Kaka for Pringle 62', Moussa for Smith 83'
Hull - F. 69'
H. 34', 86'
Fulham subs. Lonners for Betts and Moussa for Smith 45' INJ, 87' Kaka for Pringle
Huddersfield - F. 94'
H. 63'
Fulham subs Bod for Hutch 10' INJ, Cauley for Kaka 74'
Rotherham - F. 7', 16', 93'
R. 72'
Fulham subs. Cauley for Moussa 76', LVC for Ross 82', Kaka for Pringle (so he could get an ovation)
Blackburn - F. 4', 30'
B. 68'
Fulham subs. Fred for Pringle 62', Burn for Husband 89'
Sheffield W - F. 31', 67'
S. 13', 37', 50'
Fulham subs. Burn for Pringle 46', LVC for Husband 57', Cauley for Moussa 62'
QPR - F. 2', 19', 31', 63'
Fulham subs. LVC for O'Hara 65', Cauley for Moussa 76', 77' Voser for Fred
Wolves - W. 56', 59', 78'
Fulham subs. LVC for Pringle 60', Voser for Fred 75', Matilla for O'Hara
Charlton - F. 32', 59'
C. 81', 96'
Fulham subs. Garbutt for Pringle 60', Cauley for Dembele 75', Matilla for O'Hara 90
There actually seems to be a deal of consistency about the subs which, apart from Sunday's retrospective disaster of bringing off O'Hara, seem reasonably sensible. Pringle gets subbed a lot does't he? Cauley for Dembele seems a reasonable plan (which has worked twice).
Incidentally, on the 'proactive' front I can't, at this moment, see how it could be proved that a substitution had prevented a goal which, by definition, has not been scored!
I do understand your perspective, everyone's thoughts will differ slightly.
Quote from: J.Perkins on October 06, 2015, 06:02:32 PM
Quote from: cmg on October 06, 2015, 05:52:06 PM
..........
I do understand your perspective, everyone's thoughts will differ slightly.
0001.jpeg
:plus one:
After all, it would be boring if everybody
was right thought like me!
Wimbledon White -- I guess it's you and me !
[/quote]
You're so boring WATW.
We won't be in a relegation battle. We'll be solidly mid-table and flirting with the playoff places. That should be applauded given the crap he inherited.
As for the rest of your (as ever) overly aggressive nonsense...consider your bait well and truly unsuccessful.
TTFN old boy.
[/quote]
I remember back in February on a similar thread i said that we were in for a relegation battle due to Kits poor management, i was shot down by a poster telling me i knew nothing because we most definitely would be nowhere near a relegation battle, i think i was proved right.
Kit has got his team now , nothing to do with the crap he in herited and although i dont see us in the bottom three i cant see us any higher than bottom third of the table while he is manager, oh how i would love to be proved wrong and with this squad i should be but as i say not with this manager.
Quote from: Wearethewhites on October 04, 2015, 02:06:19 PM
This isn't knee-jerk, I've just absolutely had a bloody gut full now, and I'm pretty sure others have to. This isn't a coincidence any more, this is down to man management / coaching issues, and how it's allowed to continue, is bloody beyond me. Please can we get a competent manager in who can perform the the basics like defending corners, set pieces and see games out at 90+6 minutes.
We are going NO WHERE under Kit Symon's, this season is another absolute waste.
Please remove him.
I think you speak for alot of us there
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Quote from: cmg on October 06, 2015, 06:11:02 PM
Quote from: J.Perkins on October 06, 2015, 06:02:32 PM
Quote from: cmg on October 06, 2015, 05:52:06 PM
..........
I do understand your perspective, everyone's thoughts will differ slightly.
0001.jpeg
:plus one:
After all, it would be boring if everybody was right thought like me!
Ok fair enough about the subs but just like Charlton it appears we have lost a lot of points after he has changed things. So he either doesn't change it until it's too late like Wolves where he waited until Wolves finally broke us down to make a much needed change with 10 men. Or he makes a change and we get worse. Not to the extreme of Charlton but Cardiff, Hull, Brighton, Blackburn, Rotherham we either dropped points or put pressure on ourselves.
The only game he deserves a lot of praise tactically was Stoke and I praised him after that game. He made changes and we finished much stronger. I won't even count that as a loss as I was so proud of them.
I actually liked this post because it was so simple, a question followed by an answer. Rather than really disecting every little detail and making me read a story. To me you either still like him or you don't rate him, no amount of expert analysis will change that. We all see things as individuals.
Good to have balance though, that's what a forum is for
Quote from: Logicalman on October 06, 2015, 11:59:40 AM
Lets get realistic, in the same way that we were never going to be chasing promotion this season...
I don't accept this at all.
Last season, we finished above both Brighton and Reading.
As of this moment in time, both of these clubs can be said to be 'chasing promotion'. Indeed, had we appointed either Hughton (my personal choice) or Clarke, what is there to suggest that either manager would not be able to have the same impact here as he is now having with his current club?
I seem to recall Jimmy Bullard, years ago, making headlines by declaring that his Hull team fighting relegation had the talent to challenge for a European spot. Although universally derided, he made a valid point: that Roy had taken a similarly relegation challenged team to the Europa League finals without any major change to the lineup. If Fulham could do it, why not Hull?
Roy's blueprint was simple: an unwavering focus on organization and defense. Initially, it was boring, but from the outset, one could see Roy had a plan, and he stuck to it. I have been recently reminded of this turnaround by a team executing a similar turnaround in the Bundesliga, Hertha Berlin. For much of last year, Hertha was just above, or in the relegation zone. They were in the relegation zone when its manager was fired, to be replaced by the coach of the Hungarian national team. Hertha turned it around in the same way as Roy with organizzation and discipline. The soccer, initially was dire, almost unwatchable, but the team's commitment to organization and defense kept Hertha in the top flight.
This year, Hertha is in fourth place, with virtually the same line-up. There are no thoroughbreds in the team, just a group of plowhorses who play as a collective in an organized and disciplined manner The focus is still on defense, but as with Roy, confidence in defense has loosened up the offense. The difference between this year and last can be laid entirely to the manager.
My point is obvious: a good manager makes a difference. Now for those who defend Kit, do you think he is making a difference, that he is getting the best out of this team? And if you think he is, answer two questions: do you see any plan, and do you see a team that plays with a will, with discipline, and, most importantly, with focus? Or do you see a team that has no discernible plan, and one that constantly shoots itself in the foot with individual and team errors, and gives up way too many preventable goals? As an old coach of mine used to say, one can never completely eliminate physical errors; one is limited by the talent with which he was born. But there is no excuse for mental errors; they can be eliminated. Fulham's failure to do so is down to the manager.
Before Fulham can start to earn points consistently, it has to stop giving them away. Unfortunately, I see no evidence of that happening under Kit.
Quote from: NewYorkYank on October 06, 2015, 09:11:25 PM
I seem to recall Jimmy Bullard, years ago, making headlines by declaring that his Hull team fighting relegation had the talent to challenge for a European spot. Although universally derided, he made a valid point: that Roy had taken a similarly relegation challenged team to the Europa League finals without any major change to the lineup. If Fulham could do it, why not Hull?
Roy's blueprint was simple: an unwavering focus on organization and defense. Initially, it was boring, but from the outset, one could see Roy had a plan, and he stuck to it. I have been recently reminded of this turnaround by a team executing a similar turnaround in the Bundesliga, Hertha Berlin. For much of last year, Hertha was just above, or in the relegation zone. They were in the relegation zone when its manager was fired, to be replaced by the coach of the Hungarian national team. Hertha turned it around in the same way as Roy with organizzation and discipline. The soccer, initially was dire, almost unwatchable, but the team's commitment to organization and defense kept Hertha in the top flight.
This year, Hertha is in fourth place, with virtually the same line-up. There are no thoroughbreds in the team, just a group of plowhorses who play as a collective in an organized and disciplined manner The focus is still on defense, but as with Roy, confidence in defense has loosened up the offense. The difference between this year and last can be laid entirely to the manager.
My point is obvious: a good manager makes a difference. Now for those who defend Kit, do you think he is making a difference, that he is getting the best out of this team? And if you think he is, answer two questions: do you see any plan, and do you see a team that plays with a will, with discipline, and, most importantly, with focus? Or do you see a team that has no discernible plan, and one that constantly shoots itself in the foot with individual and team errors, and gives up way too many preventable goals? As an old coach of mine used to say, one can never completely eliminate physical errors; one is limited by the talent with which he was born. But there is no excuse for mental errors; they can be eliminated. Fulham's failure to do so is down to the manager.
Before Fulham can start to earn points consistently, it has to stop giving them away. Unfortunately, I see no evidence of that happening under Kit.
Superb post, although I expect Wimbledone_White will have something to say about this. It's far to accurate, level headed, and carrys a great opinion about our current situation. Please post again soon..
This year I have enjoyed the football produced under kit,maybe he lacks expierence of cloSing a game out,but I'm enjoying it nevertheless.
Is he a proactive manager? No. Subs are always after goals and just completely wrong all together. This is just plain wrong. Goals/subs details for our 10 games:
Cardiff - F. goal 47'
C. 86'
Fulham made 1 sub. Moussa for Smith 78'.
Brighton - F. 43'
B. 30', 94'
Fulham subs. Kaka for Pringle 62', Moussa for Smith 83'
Hull - F. 69'
H. 34', 86'
Fulham subs. Lonners for Betts and Moussa for Smith 45' INJ, 87' Kaka for Pringle
Huddersfield - F. 94'
H. 63'
Fulham subs Bod for Hutch 10' INJ, Cauley for Kaka 74'
Rotherham - F. 7', 16', 93'
R. 72'
Fulham subs. Cauley for Moussa 76', LVC for Ross 82', Kaka for Pringle (so he could get an ovation)
Blackburn - F. 4', 30'
B. 68'
Fulham subs. Fred for Pringle 62', Burn for Husband 89'
Sheffield W - F. 31', 67'
S. 13', 37', 50'
Fulham subs. Burn for Pringle 46', LVC for Husband 57', Cauley for Moussa 62'
QPR - F. 2', 19', 31', 63'
Fulham subs. LVC for O'Hara 65', Cauley for Moussa 76', 77' Voser for Fred
Wolves - W. 56', 59', 78'
Fulham subs. LVC for Pringle 60', Voser for Fred 75', Matilla for O'Hara
Charlton - F. 32', 59'
C. 81', 96'
Fulham subs. Garbutt for Pringle 60', Cauley for Dembele 75', Matilla for O'Hara 90
There actually seems to be a deal of consistency about the subs which, apart from Sunday's retrospective disaster of bringing off O'Hara, seem reasonably sensible. Pringle gets subbed a lot does't he? Cauley for Dembele seems a reasonable plan (which has worked twice).
Incidentally, on the 'proactive' front I can't, at this moment, see how it could be proved that a substitution had prevented a goal which, by definition, has not been scored!
[/quote]
My issue with the subs is that they are generally ineffective and do not change the game, at least for the positive, wheras opponents regularly change their approach 2nd half and we struggle with good old Plan A.
I do not think subbing Moussa for Cawley works. They are different players and Moussa is a solid target man, when he goes off we lose an outlet as Cawley cant win balls in the air against a strong CB. There have been at least 4 games when McCormack is struggling to contribute and we would have been better subbing him for Cawley, as they are similar players.
Twice he has subbed Pringle for a back playing in front of another back.
He has yet to bring on Matila/Hindeman/LVC and shore up midfield when we are being overrun in the middle ( eg vs Wolves), again why not Moussa or McCormack off in those situations? its always the predictable Pringle at minute 60 for left mid or left back, Moussa at minute 75 for Woodrow.
Taking O'Hara off last weekend was so poorly judged.
I just get frustrated that it almost looks like he literally has no Plan B, just shuffling the parts of Plan A.
I also do not get the time wasting at 80 minutes, I get it at 2 minutes into extra time to take the ball into the corner or do a short corner, i have been embarrassed to see us do that with 10 minutes left. If that is what Kit sees as "seeing out the game" we are in trouble.
I agree the confidence stuff is just personal taste and this is early days but I generally side with the complete sentiment of this post. If we armchair warriors think that I really worry what the players think, especially the older pros like O'Hara, Stearman, Ream, McCormack who have played for many different managers.
Quote from: Wearethewhites on October 06, 2015, 10:37:25 PM
Quote from: NewYorkYank on October 06, 2015, 09:11:25 PM
I seem to recall Jimmy Bullard, years ago, making headlines by declaring that his Hull team fighting relegation had the talent to challenge for a European spot. Although universally derided, he made a valid point: that Roy had taken a similarly relegation challenged team to the Europa League finals without any major change to the lineup. If Fulham could do it, why not Hull?
Roy's blueprint was simple: an unwavering focus on organization and defense. Initially, it was boring, but from the outset, one could see Roy had a plan, and he stuck to it. I have been recently reminded of this turnaround by a team executing a similar turnaround in the Bundesliga, Hertha Berlin. For much of last year, Hertha was just above, or in the relegation zone. They were in the relegation zone when its manager was fired, to be replaced by the coach of the Hungarian national team. Hertha turned it around in the same way as Roy with organizzation and discipline. The soccer, initially was dire, almost unwatchable, but the team's commitment to organization and defense kept Hertha in the top flight.
This year, Hertha is in fourth place, with virtually the same line-up. There are no thoroughbreds in the team, just a group of plowhorses who play as a collective in an organized and disciplined manner The focus is still on defense, but as with Roy, confidence in defense has loosened up the offense. The difference between this year and last can be laid entirely to the manager.
My point is obvious: a good manager makes a difference. Now for those who defend Kit, do you think he is making a difference, that he is getting the best out of this team? And if you think he is, answer two questions: do you see any plan, and do you see a team that plays with a will, with discipline, and, most importantly, with focus? Or do you see a team that has no discernible plan, and one that constantly shoots itself in the foot with individual and team errors, and gives up way too many preventable goals? As an old coach of mine used to say, one can never completely eliminate physical errors; one is limited by the talent with which he was born. But there is no excuse for mental errors; they can be eliminated. Fulham's failure to do so is down to the manager.
Before Fulham can start to earn points consistently, it has to stop giving them away. Unfortunately, I see no evidence of that happening under Kit.
Superb post, although I expect Wimbledone_White will have something to say about this. It's far to accurate, level headed, and carrys a great opinion about our current situation. Please post again soon..
OMG you're obsessed with me WATW. On the contrary I think it is a very interesting post.
It seems you think I believe Kit is some sort of world beater; allow me to be clear - I understand Kit's deficiencies. However I believe, given he has an almost entirely new starting 11 this season, he deserves more time in order to make them gel and deliver.
Personally, I wiped the slate clean at the end of the last season. I recognised the squad was nowhere near as good as people thought and needed a complete overhaul. I applaud Rigg and Kit for delivering the overhaul.
I try to be a reasonable and realistic as possible. There is nothing worse in football than deluded fans who think they are due something ahead of due course of time. For me, it would be deluded of us to think that an entire new squad can produce instant results, that they won't make mistakes (Kit included) and that they should be fighting for automatic promotion in their first year together.
12 new players...12.
No one would be able to generate instant results. Every manager would need time.
This squad is improved and improving and, once we have the human errors minimised, we will see us go up the table and fight for the play-offs.
I personally believe we are consolidating this season and will push on for promotion this time next year.
Quote from: Twig on October 04, 2015, 02:09:41 PM
Please can you respect him sufficiently to spell his name correctly?
Oh yes, the correct spelling is CRAP isn't it.
Quote from: Baszab on October 04, 2015, 02:16:33 PM
just don't see how the manager could be blamed for that in a million years - lack of discipline and concentration by quite a few players
Time you got a pair of glasses then
Quote from: PokerMatt on October 04, 2015, 02:36:03 PM
Quote from: Baszab on October 04, 2015, 02:16:33 PM
just don't see how the manager could be blamed for that in a million years - lack of discipline and concentration by quite a few players
Because it's every game. No matter who the players are. I'd like to see how many goals overall we've conceded from set plays - I'd be willing to bet it's twice as many as the next highest. That's down to coaching.
We consistently concede late goals and set pieces. Surely a management problem. The team is good enough to be top 6 but we the manager isn't.
I saw a post on here a while back that made alot of valid points why we should wait till November to see what kit can get out of this team. if we are not in the top 10 by then I will be relentless on my kit out view, I strongly believe in the team we have and it's time for kit to shjt or get off the pot
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
I always think a good view point of a manager is would want him at your club? So if Kit wasn't at Fulham and Joe Bloggs was and you wanted to push for promotion would you be thinking I hope we can get that Kit Symons.
I think most people answer would be no based on performances and tactical issues, hes contracts up at the end of the season and the performances at the moment wouldn't suggest a renewal, cut the rope and set him adrift lets get a man in with experience and guile.
This is the Championship we should be pushing for the top not be happy we are sitting mid table I don't care how many players we have had in over the summer.
Quote from: Nero on October 07, 2015, 11:12:31 AM
I always think a good view point of a manager is would want him at your club? So if Kit wasn't at Fulham and Joe Bloggs was and you wanted to push for promotion would you be thinking I hope we can get that Kit Symons.
I think most people answer would be no based on performances and tactical issues, hes contracts up at the end of the season and the performances at the moment wouldn't suggest a renewal, cut the rope and set him adrift lets get a man in with experience and guile.
This is the Championship we should be pushing for the top not be happy we are sitting mid table I don't care how many players we have had in over the summer.
While I agree with your view and conclusion your premise is flawed. Beeing a "Fulham" man matters to exclusively Fulham therefore Bristol City, Wolves or Debry County would not be as interested in Kit Symons as us.
But the general view is with Symons it will take longer to get to where we wish to be, that is, in contention to get promoted to the PL.
Kit is coaching the ability out of the players.
McCormack, Cairney, Stearman, Ream and O'Hara would get into most Championship teams and even the likes of Richards, Tunnicliffe, Pringle and Dembele are solid players at this level. We have all the tools to be playoff contenders - Kit even said so himself, and yet, we're flirting with the bottom 6. Why? Because our coaching setup is tactically backwards. Of course, the players must take responsibility for individual errors but the constant late goals, conceding from set-pieces, lack of width, ineffective use of possession and strange substitutions suggests poor match preparation. It happens too often to be coincidence. The problems of last season have not been addressed. For example, the Charlton game was more or less won at 2-0; the opposition were on their knees and a third goal would have sealed the win. Do we go for the kill? No. We substitute our two strongest players and sit back, thus, gifting them a route back into the match. Utterly hopeless management.
The manager's duty is to extract the most from his players and he is failing. Plain and simple. We won't go down with him in charge but we simply won't go anywhere. If our target is truly a top 6 finish, then Kit must be removed immediately.
Quote from: Baszab on October 06, 2015, 06:26:47 PM
Wimbledon White -- I guess it's you and me !
and me.
I'm looking for an improvement this season, i.e. top half, and if we achieve that with Kit then I will be happy. If in subsequent seasons we are genuine promotion contenders then I will be equally happy, whether we achieve promotion or not.
I blame supporters, as much as owners, for the ridiculous turnaround in managers, season-after-season in all leagues.
Quote from: Fulham1959 on October 07, 2015, 12:24:13 PM
Quote from: Baszab on October 06, 2015, 06:26:47 PM
Wimbledon White -- I guess it's you and me !
and me.
I'm looking for an improvement this season, i.e. top half, and if we achieve that with Kit then I will be happy. If in subsequent seasons we are genuine promotion contenders then I will be equally happy, whether we achieve promotion or not.
I blame supporters, as much as owners, for the ridiculous turnaround in managers, season-after-season in all leagues.
Supporters. You blame supporters.
His bizarre choice to shut up shop and invite pressure against Charlton was ludicrous.
He cost us big time and it's not the first time this has happened.
Poor judgement, managerial naivety.
Quote from: Fulham1959 on October 07, 2015, 12:24:13 PM
Quote from: Baszab on October 06, 2015, 06:26:47 PM
Wimbledon White -- I guess it's you and me !
and me.
I'm looking for an improvement this season, i.e. top half, and if we achieve that with Kit then I will be happy. If in subsequent seasons we are genuine promotion contenders then I will be equally happy, whether we achieve promotion or not.
I blame supporters, as much as owners, for the ridiculous turnaround in managers, season-after-season in all leagues.
Yes it does sound ridiculous to say we had 3 managers in 9 months.
Oh but I don't mean Jol, Rene and Magath. I mean Cookie, Sanchez and Hodgson. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and somehow I doubt anyone will claim we made the wrong call with such a turnaround then. The difference between then and now is that we still are recognising that the managers aren't good enough but we are replacing them with someone even worse.
If Kit does go it will be his own doing. As if a good manager will give us sellouts. We don't sell tickets because we are in the championship no matter how entertaining we are.
If Kit Symons had no connection to Fulham at all then we wouldn't even be debating it. He automatically gets more time and that's only natural but it is not the fans fault for being more concerned about the clubs progress than it is about the development of someone who played for us for a few years, regardless of what he achieved and I would be saying the same if someone like Murphy was in charge too.
We have to do what's right for Fulham and this is different to Magath. It's not about saving what's left of our club, it's about looking to the future and in a whole year not many of us believe kit has proved he can take us there.
Quote from: alfie on October 06, 2015, 11:38:00 AM
Quote from: Wearethewhites on October 04, 2015, 03:41:05 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on October 04, 2015, 03:29:43 PM
Quote from: Wearethewhites on October 04, 2015, 03:28:18 PM
Quote from: grandad on October 04, 2015, 03:24:24 PM
Hummm. Not much out there is there.
Grandad, in all due respect, all you are trying to do, is defend the guy without physically saying it, by saying "Well who else then" which gets right up my nose, and I don't know why people do it.
I'm sorry, but people like Big Sam, Paul Lambert, and the other names mentioned above, are a vast improvement over Kit, so it's down to the ambitions of the Club.
I reckon stevie wonder could see where we are going wrong, better than kit could
As I've quoted before, conceding like we do, from every set piece and corner, is a tactical / coaching issue, and not down to individual player errors. I don't buy all this "Well, they're human" bull, it's a poor excuse, and is above and beyond a coincidence now. Still, some people will continue to defend Kit, but I want this club to be much more ambitious than they are. In my eye's, this is another wasted season that culd have be prevented.
I think you are correct when you say tactical but not coaching, these are very experienced championship defenders, do they really need to be coached all the time.
Did you know that in the NFL, they have coaches for Offence, Defence, Special teams and indeed specific positional coaches? Unlike in football, where we tend to have just goalkeeper, fitness and unspecific 'first team' coaches.
Just a thought.
Quote from: Arthur on October 06, 2015, 08:56:42 PM
Quote from: Logicalman on October 06, 2015, 11:59:40 AM
Lets get realistic, in the same way that we were never going to be chasing promotion this season...
I don't accept this at all.
Last season, we finished above both Brighton and Reading.
As of this moment in time, both of these clubs can be said to be 'chasing promotion'. Indeed, had we appointed either Hughton (my personal choice) or Clarke, what is there to suggest that either manager would not be able to have the same impact here as he is now having with his current club?
Well, with respect, you need to take my whole comment, not just the portion, as it not in context on it's own.
My point was that we can only appoint managers that are available and would come to Fulham.
Houghton was already at Brighton at the end of last season, 6 months into a 42 month contract, so we could not have appointed him at all, and, likewise, Clarke was 6 months into a 30 month contract, and therefore was not available this past summer either.
So, based on the fact both your examples were not available this past summer, or now, who else would you suggest for the job?
Quote from: J.Perkins on October 07, 2015, 12:31:02 PM
Quote from: Fulham1959 on October 07, 2015, 12:24:13 PM
Quote from: Baszab on October 06, 2015, 06:26:47 PM
Wimbledon White -- I guess it's you and me !
and me.
I'm looking for an improvement this season, i.e. top half, and if we achieve that with Kit then I will be happy. If in subsequent seasons we are genuine promotion contenders then I will be equally happy, whether we achieve promotion or not.
I blame supporters, as much as owners, for the ridiculous turnaround in managers, season-after-season in all leagues.
Firstly, we should be achieving playoffs with the current squad. No question. With our resources, a mid-table finish would be a pathetic return. Why should we settle for mediocrity?
Secondly, the supporters are 100% not to blame in any way for our managerial turnaround. The owners run the ship. End of. In fact, I'd argue that both Jol and Magath should have been sacked much earlier as many fans were suggesting...
Quote from: Logicalman on October 07, 2015, 02:37:12 PM
Quote from: Arthur on October 06, 2015, 08:56:42 PM
Quote from: Logicalman on October 06, 2015, 11:59:40 AM
Lets get realistic, in the same way that we were never going to be chasing promotion this season...
I don't accept this at all.
Last season, we finished above both Brighton and Reading.
As of this moment in time, both of these clubs can be said to be 'chasing promotion'. Indeed, had we appointed either Hughton (my personal choice) or Clarke, what is there to suggest that either manager would not be able to have the same impact here as he is now having with his current club?
Well, with respect, you need to take my whole comment, not just the portion, as it not in context on it's own.
My point was that we can only appoint managers that are available and would come to Fulham.
Houghton was already at Brighton at the end of last season, 6 months into a 42 month contract, so we could not have appointed him at all, and, likewise, Clarke was 6 months into a 30 month contract, and therefore was not available this past summer either.
So, based on the fact both your examples were not available this past summer, or now, who else would you suggest for the job?
Your original post, quoted below, refers merely to 'those we could have gone for in the past'. It did not limit the time scale to last summer as you have done in your reply above. Both Hughton and Clarke were available at the very time
in the past that we appointed Symons and are therefore managers that
we could have gone for a year ago. It is on this basis that my conviction is formed.
As to how my extracting your statement that 'we were never going to be chasing promotion this season' alters its meaning, you will have to be more forthcoming. Looking at it, I am still of the opinion that it doesn't make one iota of difference.
Quote from: Logicalman on October 06, 2015, 11:59:40 AM
Apparently Lamberts looking towards the Sunderland Job, according to the Birmingham Mail.
Seriously folks, I think Roy would get us out of this division as well as a bunch of others that would not consider us in their futures either.
As for 'those we could have gone for' in the past, it's another list of pipe-dreams. Lets get realistic, in the same way that we were never going to be chasing promotion this season, if we are going to look to change Managers, then look at replacements that are likely to take the job, bearing in mind the other vacancies that are available at the moment.
Quote from: Arthur on October 12, 2015, 01:56:42 AM
Quote from: Logicalman on October 07, 2015, 02:37:12 PM
Quote from: Arthur on October 06, 2015, 08:56:42 PM
Quote from: Logicalman on October 06, 2015, 11:59:40 AM
Lets get realistic, in the same way that we were never going to be chasing promotion this season...
I don't accept this at all.
Last season, we finished above both Brighton and Reading.
As of this moment in time, both of these clubs can be said to be 'chasing promotion'. Indeed, had we appointed either Hughton (my personal choice) or Clarke, what is there to suggest that either manager would not be able to have the same impact here as he is now having with his current club?
Well, with respect, you need to take my whole comment, not just the portion, as it not in context on it's own.
My point was that we can only appoint managers that are available and would come to Fulham.
Houghton was already at Brighton at the end of last season, 6 months into a 42 month contract, so we could not have appointed him at all, and, likewise, Clarke was 6 months into a 30 month contract, and therefore was not available this past summer either.
So, based on the fact both your examples were not available this past summer, or now, who else would you suggest for the job?
Your original post, quoted below, refers merely to 'those we could have gone for in the past'. It did not limit the time scale to last summer as you have done in your reply above. Both Hughton and Clarke were available at the very time in the past that we appointed Symons and are therefore managers that we could have gone for a year ago. It is on this basis that my conviction is formed.
As to how my extracting your statement that 'we were never going to be chasing promotion this season' alters its meaning, you will have to be more forthcoming. Looking at it, I am still of the opinion that it doesn't make one iota of difference.
Quote from: Logicalman on October 06, 2015, 11:59:40 AM
Apparently Lamberts looking towards the Sunderland Job, according to the Birmingham Mail.
Seriously folks, I think Roy would get us out of this division as well as a bunch of others that would not consider us in their futures either.
As for 'those we could have gone for' in the past, it's another list of pipe-dreams. Lets get realistic, in the same way that we were never going to be chasing promotion this season, if we are going to look to change Managers, then look at replacements that are likely to take the job, bearing in mind the other vacancies that are available at the moment.
I do see where you are coming from, but the time-limit was taken from your answer regarding where we finished last season, ergo, the stating of the contracts for both managers, though I fully accept I was quite ambiguous previously, and should have stated that clearly.
Regarding the latter comment, the two clubs you stated we finished above at the end of last season acquired good managers during that season, and they have had the opportunity to get players in (and out) they needed for this season, and therefore they are both different teams this season, thus there can be no direct comparison between their finishing positions and ours when taking into account our current circumstances and possible promotion hopes.
I have never been of the opinion, following last seasons absolute disaster of a pre-season and then poor start and manager change, that we would be chasing promotion this season. Kit will need a complete season to get the team the way he wants it, that's not saying another manager, more experienced perhaps, could not have done that this season, but with Kit at the helm it was not going to happen.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on October 12, 2015, 03:07:26 PM
Quote from: Wearethewhites on October 04, 2015, 02:06:19 PM
This isn't knee-jerk, I've just absolutely had a bloody gut full now, and I'm pretty sure others have to. This isn't a coincidence any more, this is down to man management / coaching issues, and how it's allowed to continue, is bloody beyond me. Please can we get a competent manager in who can perform the the basics like defending corners, set pieces and see games out at 90+6 minutes.
We are going NO WHERE under Kit Symon's, this season is another absolute waste.
Please remove him.
You have forgotten one small detail, we are not allowed to complain, it upsets the locals. Spare a thought for the sensitive folk amongst us.
Sorry but I thought you were in the majority. How can you be the swooning heroine being tied to the railway line AND the wicked moustache twirling villain as well? Talk about hogging all the parts in the pantomime. You will wanting my part as the back end of the horse next. :dead horse:
Quote from: Lighthouse on October 13, 2015, 12:23:24 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on October 12, 2015, 03:07:26 PM
Quote from: Wearethewhites on October 04, 2015, 02:06:19 PM
This isn't knee-jerk, I've just absolutely had a bloody gut full now, and I'm pretty sure others have to. This isn't a coincidence any more, this is down to man management / coaching issues, and how it's allowed to continue, is bloody beyond me. Please can we get a competent manager in who can perform the the basics like defending corners, set pieces and see games out at 90+6 minutes.
We are going NO WHERE under Kit Symon's, this season is another absolute waste.
Please remove him.
You have forgotten one small detail, we are not allowed to complain, it upsets the locals. Spare a thought for the sensitive folk amongst us.
Sorry but I thought you were in the majority. How can you be the swooning heroine being tied to the railway line AND the wicked moustache twirling villain as well? Talk about hogging all the parts in the pantomime. You will wanting my part as the back end of the horse next. :dead horse:
I must be the front end of the horse, but I am not sure who the heroine is that's tied to the railway line, but the moustache twirling villain isn't our glorious chairman is it.
Nurse, nurse!! he's out of bed again.
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Everytime I read the heading of this post it just reminds me of the smith's. Maybe those who want kit out (strangely not me currently although patience is wearing thin) should replace "let me, get what I want" with something kit out related at our next game.
Don't you realise that if the Kit Boy goes your source material - which provides you with your daily moan - goes as well.
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Quote from: J.Perkins on October 06, 2015, 01:39:09 PM
He has had over a year in charge. More than enough time to get to grips with the job.
He wanted a window where he can build his squad, which he has.
Promotion is the aim for him and the club, is he achieving it after 10 games? No.
Are the glaring errors from last season still apparent? Yes, no width, slow attacking, conceding many set pieces, too many late goals.
Does he ever fill you with confidence in his interviews, and directly point out what's going wrong? No.
Does he still have only one plan? Yes.
Is he a proactive manager? No. Subs are always after goals and just completely wrong all together.
Is he as tactically inept manager, way out of his depth? Yes.
You must have been reading my thoughts.
Quote from: Jonaldiniho 88 on October 14, 2015, 03:43:49 PM
Everytime I read the heading of this post it just reminds me of the smith's. Maybe those who want kit out (strangely not me currently although patience is wearing thin) should replace "let me, get what I want" with something kit out related at our next game.
As a matter of interest, at the risk of making myself look like a Hairy Elephant, but who are the smiths ?
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on October 15, 2015, 12:50:42 AM
Quote from: Jonaldiniho 88 on October 14, 2015, 03:43:49 PM
Everytime I read the heading of this post it just reminds me of the smith's. Maybe those who want kit out (strangely not me currently although patience is wearing thin) should replace "let me, get what I want" with something kit out related at our next game.
As a matter of interest, at the risk of making myself look like a Hairy Elephant, but who are the smiths ?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GiqOsKngc-c
Quote from: Funky Fulham Dave on October 14, 2015, 04:47:22 PM
Don't you realise that if the Kit Boy goes your source material - which provides you with your daily moan - goes as well.
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Why do you put 'Profit and Loss' after all your posts? Are you an accountant? :005:
Quote from: Scrumpy on October 15, 2015, 01:20:54 PM
Quote from: Funky Fulham Dave on October 14, 2015, 04:47:22 PM
Don't you realise that if the Kit Boy goes your source material - which provides you with your daily moan - goes as well.
P&L
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Why do you put 'Profit and Loss' after all your posts? Are you an accountant? :005:
:beer:
An accountant?
I've never been so insulted.
Not since last Saturday in fact.
Anyway the word accountant should always have (anagram) after it.
P&L xxxxxxxxxx
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