"We played without spirit, without competitiveness, without desire".
Well at least he see's it like the rest of us, I wonder how he's going to react in the short term?
And the biggest culprit is Garbutt
He thinks he should be in Everton side and is too
good for us,he looks disinterested every time I see him..
IMO
Toss him back up North..
Jokanovic also has to take some of the criticism after that. He set the team up, he gave the the before and half time chat, he decided to ring the changes, and there was still no response from his team. Yes, Garbutt gave away the penalty, but we'd have still lost on the night anyway.
Garbutt has been shocking all season
Total lack of respect to FFC and our supporters
I don't like the idea of scapegoating particular players. We'd be here all day if we did that. There is no consistency. I cannot remember the last time I've seen a clean sheet. A culture of losing is what we are becoming. It's like there is some kind of curse surrounding the team. How many managers, coaches, players are we going to chop and change and say they're all terrible? I have no idea what the actual problem is but it is really beginning to take a drain on all of us I think.
Let's be clear. he said more than that.
Head Coach Slaviša Jokanović has apologised to Fulham fans for the lack of desire shown in the 3-0 defeat at Blackburn Rovers.
"I say sorry to our fans who travelled with us to watch this game," said Jokanović. "We didn't offer anything special. We played without spirit, without competitiveness, without desire.
"We did not play good football in any moment in the game. Generally, they won the challenges, we did not try to play football and we did not do anything important. It is a bad sensation and we need a change immediately because we won one game a few days earlier, that's history, it's over.
"I am here for a month and a half and this game, this is a game without any spirit. I am very disappointed really.
"We are where we are right now. We must be strong. With this spirit, this desire, this competiveness, this is not enough for anything important."
Good man. I feel a bollocking coming on. Be afraid Charlton.
Don't mind a player not being the best,but least give your
all for the club that pays your wages.
Garbutt IMO doesn't.
Quote from: Southcoastffc on February 16, 2016, 10:44:36 PM
Let's be clear. he said more than that.
Head Coach Slaviša Jokanović has apologised to Fulham fans for the lack of desire shown in the 3-0 defeat at Blackburn Rovers.
"I say sorry to our fans who travelled with us to watch this game," said Jokanović. "We didn't offer anything special. We played without spirit, without competitiveness, without desire.
"We did not play good football in any moment in the game. Generally, they won the challenges, we did not try to play football and we did not do anything important. It is a bad sensation and we need a change immediately because we won one game a few days earlier, that's history, it's over.
"I am here for a month and a half and this game, this is a game without any spirit. I am very disappointed really.
"We are where we are right now. We must be strong. With this spirit, this desire, this competiveness, this is not enough for anything important."
Good man. I feel a bollocking coming on. Be afraid Charlton.
I hear what you're saying, but his half time team talk, or bollocking, had zero effect what so ever. We were, just as, or if worse, in the 2nd half. Even under managers like Roy, Coleman etc, we'd come out and give it ago, but tonight, nothing, the whole team were lifeless.
If anything, he's got a job on his hands to pick the player moral up, because Charlton will be licking their lips after that.
To be honest it must be easy for the players to be up for a local derby at QPR. Then, a trip to Blackburn 3 days later demanded backbone from the manager and players. Result, a total failure. This is very depressing and I don't see any improvement from the players or to how we are organized. Total disgrace.
Singling out Garbutt tonight is wrong. He's young and he lost his head after the penalty. He at least has youth as an excuse, every other player out there was shockingly poor.
After the penalty it was obvious he had lost it; step forward a strong captain to sort him out. We've not got one.
Well done Jokanovic for coming out with that statement. I would have preferred you'd have done the talking with some more inspirational substitutions. Plus in matches like this, try Stearman.
Quote from: GrahamG on February 16, 2016, 10:56:12 PM
To be honest it must be easy for the players to be up for a local derby at QPR. Then, a trip to Blackburn 3 days later demanded backbone from the manager and players. Result, a total failure. This is very depressing and I don't see any improvement from the players or to how we are organized. Total disgrace.
Agreed
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on February 16, 2016, 10:21:01 PM
"We played without spirit, without competitiveness, without desire".
Well at least he see's it like the rest of us, I wonder how he's going to react in the short term?
He will be seeking another appointment before the end of the season and who could blame him, with this shambles of a squad that we have!
Quote from: One Martin Thomas on February 16, 2016, 10:58:13 PM
Singling out Garbutt tonight is wrong. He's young and he lost his head after the penalty. He at least has youth as an excuse, every other player out there was shockingly poor.
After the penalty it was obvious he had lost it; step forward a strong captain to sort him out. We've not got one.
Well done Jokanovic for coming out with that statement. I would have preferred you'd have done the talking with some more inspirational substitutions. Plus in matches like this, try Stearman.
Every game not on about penalty
He isn't interested IMO.
Don't play the young player card,he is well old eenough.
Quote from: Southcoastffc on February 16, 2016, 10:44:36 PM
Let's be clear. he said more than that.
Head Coach Slavia Jokanović has apologised to Fulham fans for the lack of desire shown in the 3-0 defeat at Blackburn Rovers.
I say sorry to our fans who travelled with us to watch this game, said Jokanović. We didnt offer anything special. We played without spirit, without competitiveness, without desire.
We did not play good football in any moment in the game. Generally, they won the challenges, we did not try to play football and we did not do anything important. It is a bad sensation and we need a change immediately because we won one game a few days earlier, thats history, its over.
I am here for a month and a half and this game, this is a game without any spirit. I am very disappointed really.
We are where we are right now. We must be strong. With this spirit, this desire, this competiveness, this is not enough for anything important.
Good man. I feel a bollocking coming on. Be afraid Charlton.
We have heard all this before, I don't blame SJ though!!
Yes it was Garbutt's showboating at the end of the Charlton game that cost us
I have watched him at all home games and his attitude stinks
Basically, no one knows what the cause of our problems is. Kit, then all the managers and coaches after him seem unable to identify the cause of the malaise.
No point in scapegoating certain players for the fact we sometimes play brilliantly, looking like world beaters, then the next week look as if we've just met that morning.
It's hard - but we just need to keep behind the team, have faith in SJ to sort things out.
Quote from: Statto on February 16, 2016, 11:04:23 PM
It's not just Garbutt's poor performances but something about his demeanour, work rate etc that gives me, and others it seems, the impression he thinks he's a lot better than he is. He seems to epitomise the lack of care from some players that took us down.
I wasn't at tonight's game thankfully so can't comment but I was at, among other games, his ten minute debut at the valley and I'm convinced he cost us the win that game, which for a full back who's only on for 10 minutes is quite an achievement.
Which is probably why he is out on loan from his PL club, good experience for him playing for us, not going to do him any good which equals what he is doing for us!
I reckon one player that always gives his all is Stearman - can't understand why SJ has blanked him totally - no more to blame than anyone else
Bring back Jack Grimmer..
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on February 16, 2016, 10:21:01 PM
"We played without spirit, without competitiveness, without desire".
Well at least he see's it like the rest of us, I wonder how he's going to react in the short term?
For the future of the club and the immediate improvement of this team then the non-performance at Ewood Park tonight is the best thing to happen to us.
Quote from: Statto on February 16, 2016, 11:14:06 PM
Quote from: Baszab on February 16, 2016, 11:11:31 PM
I reckon one player that always gives his all is Stearman - can't understand why SJ has blanked him totally - no more to blame than anyone else
For once I agree with you
Maybe I do also, but all the time we are clutching at straws?
Quote from: davew on February 16, 2016, 11:17:53 PM
Quote from: Statto on February 16, 2016, 11:14:06 PM
Quote from: Baszab on February 16, 2016, 11:11:31 PM
I reckon one player that always gives his all is Stearman - can't understand why SJ has blanked him totally - no more to blame than anyone else
For once I agree with you
Maybe I do also, but all the time we are clutching at straws?
Yep,They all useless..
Quote from: RaySmith on February 16, 2016, 11:08:48 PM
Basically, no one knows what the cause of our problems is. Kit, then all the managers and coaches after him seem unable to identify the cause of the malaise.
No point in scapegoating certain players for the fact we sometimes play brilliantly, looking like world beaters, then the next week look as if we've just met that morning.
It's hard - but we just need to keep behind the team, have faith in SJ to sort things out.
Quote from: RaySmith on February 16, 2016, 11:08:48 PM
Basically, no one knows what the cause of our problems is. Kit, then all the managers and coaches after him seem unable to identify the cause of the malaise.
No point in scapegoating certain players for the fact we sometimes play brilliantly, looking like world beaters, then the next week look as if we've just met that morning.
It's hard - but we just need to keep behind the team, have faith in SJ to sort things out.
It's pretty simple as far as I am concerned.
The first thing you have to do in The Chamionship is man up and compete.
The free-flowing football can then follow.
As a club we thought we were too good for this division when we came down.
We didn't bother with the basics or much shrewd recruitment and now we are getting caught out.
Bar the odd good performance you can bet us on not to compete properly from the start or truly give 100%.
Plenty of clubs like us have been caught out - Cardiff, Reading, Wigan etc....
We have a decent coach and a sprinkling of talent.
We need to dig out a few results and get to the end of the season and hopefully make some solid, Championship additions under Joka.
I just don't think many of our fans realise how bad we are these days, the Premier days have gone, for a long time. We need to build slowly but surely - there is nothing wrong with digging out the odd point now and then.
Rant over
Defence that is..
Quote from: RaySmith on February 16, 2016, 11:08:48 PM
Basically, no one knows what the cause of our problems is. Kit, then all the managers and coaches after him seem unable to identify the cause of the malaise.
No point in scapegoating certain players for the fact we sometimes play brilliantly, looking like world beaters, then the next week look as if we've just met that morning.
It's hard - but we just need to keep behind the team, have faith in SJ to sort things out.
I think it's pretty obvious what the problem is - we have bought players "without spirit, without competitiveness, without desire".
Every player in our squad is playing for a move, rather than for the club.
Quote from: TrexFFC on February 16, 2016, 10:38:33 PM
I don't like the idea of scapegoating particular players. We'd be here all day if we did that. There is no consistency. I cannot remember the last time I've seen a clean sheet. A culture of losing is what we are becoming. It's like there is some kind of curse surrounding the team. How many managers, coaches, players are we going to chop and change and say they're all terrible? I have no idea what the actual problem is but it is really beginning to take a drain on all of us I think.
Agree with the concept of "..a culture of losing". This squad has somehow been given the thumbs up in thinking that losing is not all that bad. Whether it's the "friendly Fulham" image that has got into a place where it has no right to be - the mindset of the squad - or the fact that the management tolerate loss as being "just one of those things" , nothing will improve until the squad have to pay for rubbish performances with extra training, fatigues, fines.....in fact anything that is left to discipline wasters who earn salaries that the rest of us could only dream about. The praise only comes after every man knows the disadvantages of not giving 100 percent..
The "losing" culture was exorcised in short order in the desert by Monty. He did it by insisting on excellence in every single activity by every man at all times. Then he praised them for what they had become. In this instance there isn't much difference between the two situations...only the paydays are different.
Quote from: Horse on February 16, 2016, 11:46:52 PM
Quote from: RaySmith on February 16, 2016, 11:08:48 PM
Basically, no one knows what the cause of our problems is. Kit, then all the managers and coaches after him seem unable to identify the cause of the malaise.
No point in scapegoating certain players for the fact we sometimes play brilliantly, looking like world beaters, then the next week look as if we've just met that morning.
It's hard - but we just need to keep behind the team, have faith in SJ to sort things out.
I think it's pretty obvious what the problem is - we have bought players "without spirit, without competitiveness, without desire".
Every player in our squad is playing for a move, rather than for the club.
Every player?
Lonergan?
Cairney?
Maybe he'll get them in today for a 10km jog around Motspur Park followed by a couple of sprints up and down Box Hill.
Perhaps it was the case of " a soft southern club not fancying a cold Tuesday night up north" syndrome.
Quote from: Horse on February 16, 2016, 11:46:52 PM
I think it's pretty obvious what the problem is - we have bought players "without spirit, without competitiveness, without desire".
Every player in our squad is playing for a move, rather than for the club.
I actually think theres alot of merit to this comment. There does seem a lack of commitment and desire from the majority of the players. Whenever a team stands up to us and presses us not letting us play, the team capitulates.
Maybe its not all the players, but I would say that its the majority. This is what happens when there is no stability or direction at a club
Quote from: Southcoastffc on February 16, 2016, 10:44:36 PM
Let's be clear. he said more than that.
Head Coach Slaviša Jokanović has apologised to Fulham fans for the lack of desire shown in the 3-0 defeat at Blackburn Rovers.
"I say sorry to our fans who travelled with us to watch this game," said Jokanović. "We didn't offer anything special. We played without spirit, without competitiveness, without desire.
"We did not play good football in any moment in the game. Generally, they won the challenges, we did not try to play football and we did not do anything important. It is a bad sensation and we need a change immediately because we won one game a few days earlier, that's history, it's over.
"I am here for a month and a half and this game, this is a game without any spirit. I am very disappointed really.
"We are where we are right now. We must be strong. With this spirit, this desire, this competiveness, this is not enough for anything important."
Good man. I feel a bollocking coming on. Be afraid Charlton.
it's refreshing to hear his honesty, I feel a massive over haul in the summer
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Will the highlight's be "the final whistle"
Quote from: GrahamG on February 16, 2016, 10:56:12 PM
To be honest it must be easy for the players to be up for a local derby at QPR. Then, a trip to Blackburn 3 days later demanded backbone from the manager and players. Result, a total failure. This is very depressing and I don't see any improvement from the players or to how we are organized. Total disgrace.
After the sweet performance against QPR I suspect that players and Coach underestimated what we would face at Blackburn. Lancashire is a bit of a football graveyard for us and last night we had to go there with the attitude of grinding out a result and probably playing it ugly. Players and coach have a lot to learn about the Championship.
Quote from: TrexFFC on February 16, 2016, 10:38:33 PM
I don't like the idea of scapegoating particular players. We'd be here all day if we did that. There is no consistency. I cannot remember the last time I've seen a clean sheet. A culture of losing is what we are becoming. It's like there is some kind of curse surrounding the team. How many managers, coaches, players are we going to chop and change and say they're all terrible? I have no idea what the actual problem is but it is really beginning to take a drain on all of us I think.
It's the curse of the missing statue
Luke Garbutt @luke_garbutt
Apologises to fans and my teammates @FulhamFC last night my performance was simply not good enough I will learn from this huge game sat!
Quote from: MJG on February 17, 2016, 11:18:25 AM
Luke Garbutt @luke_garbutt
Apologises to fans and my teammates @FulhamFC last night my performance was simply not good enough I will learn from this huge game sat!
Good for him. I'm pleased he feels that he needs to post that. Having said that I've not seen the game I'm only going on the reactions of others. I've generally thought he's been ok when I've seen him play.
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on February 16, 2016, 10:46:21 PM
Don't mind a player not being the best,but least give your
all for the club that pays your wages.
Garbutt IMO doesn't.
Better still if they don't play they don't get paid!!
Quote from: snarks on February 17, 2016, 11:23:24 AM
Quote from: MJG on February 17, 2016, 11:18:25 AM
Luke Garbutt @luke_garbutt
Apologises to fans and my teammates @FulhamFC last night my performance was simply not good enough I will learn from this huge game sat!
Good for him. I'm pleased he feels that he needs to post that. Having said that I've not seen the game I'm only going on the reactions of others. I've generally thought he's been ok when I've seen him play.
As bad as an individual performance I can remember in years. Did well to stay on for the 35 minutes he did.
If you went to Reading and watched Queudrue in the great escape season, think that type of performance.
Lots of very good comments on here. I agree that Garbutt does appear to have a billy big bollocks attitude at times. The team that finished the game last night was totally unsuited to that fixture. Fred at full back in a back 4 that was not strong enough. Labyad and Kacka in midfield with Cairney and a knackered O'Hara in the engine room. No wonder we got stuffed. Jokanovic got it right Saturday and wrong last night. Easy to be wise after the event but players like Ince and Stearman should have been drafted in and should play next week v Leeds.
Interesting that McCormack gave a brief interview after the game, suggest that was Jokanovics work !
To take a positive, Jokanovic will have learned a lot about the lack of character, leadership and desire from certain players and will remember games like this when he plans his squad for next season. As someone said, I can see considerable re-balancing of the squad in the summer.
Quote from: SW6 on February 17, 2016, 08:25:32 AM
Quote from: Horse on February 16, 2016, 11:46:52 PM
Quote from: RaySmith on February 16, 2016, 11:08:48 PM
Basically, no one knows what the cause of our problems is. Kit, then all the managers and coaches after him seem unable to identify the cause of the malaise.
No point in scapegoating certain players for the fact we sometimes play brilliantly, looking like world beaters, then the next week look as if we've just met that morning.
It's hard - but we just need to keep behind the team, have faith in SJ to sort things out.
I think it's pretty obvious what the problem is - we have bought players "without spirit, without competitiveness, without desire".
Every player in our squad is playing for a move, rather than for the club.
Every player?
Lonergan?
Cairney?
I'd add Matt Smith, Stearman and Ream to this list though none of them getting a look in. All good pro's who work hard and do care whatever shirt they pull on.
Garbutt will be shown the door by Everton soon enough and will probably end up somewhere like Barnsley. Slav won't want him. Some players can't see the wood for the trees.
IF Garbutt is good enough for this legaue (which I'd ask serious questions about) it can only be his attitude that makes him so average to poor in a Fulham shirt. I'd give him an overall rating this season of 5/10 and that is not factoring in whatever last night was. Real disappointment as Everton fans apparently rate him. Like someone said above, I think he'll end up at a Barnsley.
Garbutt is an interesting one. Who would you play, Garbutt or Ream ? Everton fans like Arsenal fans thought that midfield players who's name escapes me was great... Garbutt is young and will surely improve, however fancy Dan attitudes are the least we need. Take Grimmer on the other hand, his attitude is superb. Pity he is not left sided. We have had many options this season at full back, however we have still not got what is needed. Even Husband who most people rated highly, is suspect defensively.
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on February 16, 2016, 10:21:01 PM
"We played without spirit, without competitiveness, without desire".
Well at least he see's it like the rest of us, I wonder how he's going to react in the short term?
:plus one:
Hmmm, that's a good sign imo.
Quote from: FulhamStu on February 17, 2016, 12:55:02 PM
Garbutt is an interesting one. Who would you play, Garbutt or Ream ? Everton fans like Arsenal fans thought that midfield players who's name escapes me was great... Garbutt is young and will surely improve, however fancy Dan attitudes are the least we need. Take Grimmer on the other hand, his attitude is superb. Pity he is not left sided. We have had many options this season at full back, however we have still not got what is needed. Even Husband who most people rated highly, is suspect defensively.
Some good points - but can every player who has played as a full back for us this season be really, really bad?
The way we are set up defensively when we do not have the ball, particularly when transitioning from attack to defense, has to be a factor as well.
For example under Woy (sorry, I know it was a long time ago) the likes of Konchevsky were probably not much (if at all) better than the backs we have now but they rarely looked as exposed as they do now. even against better opposition.
I have in the past thought Garbutt had an attitude and wasn't much good. I thought he played well against QPR Saturday or did it just appear that way as the team as a whole were much better?
Quote from: FulhamStu on February 17, 2016, 11:39:22 AM
Lots of very good comments on here. I agree that Garbutt does appear to have a billy big bollocks attitude at times. The team that finished the game last night was totally unsuited to that fixture. Fred at full back in a back 4 that was not strong enough. Labyad and Kacka in midfield with Cairney and a knackered O'Hara in the engine room. No wonder we got stuffed. Jokanovic got it right Saturday and wrong last night. Easy to be wise after the event but players like Ince and Stearman should have been drafted in and should play next week v Leeds.
Interesting that McCormack gave a brief interview after the game, suggest that was Jokanovics work !
To take a positive, Jokanovic will have learned a lot about the lack of character, leadership and desire from certain players and will remember games like this when he plans his squad for next season. As someone said, I can see considerable re-balancing of the squad in the summer.
He's been in charge for seventeen games and it took last night for him to realise the lack of character in some players?!!!!!
Quote from: win-dup on February 17, 2016, 01:45:55 PM
Quote from: FulhamStu on February 17, 2016, 11:39:22 AM
Lots of very good comments on here. I agree that Garbutt does appear to have a billy big bollocks attitude at times. The team that finished the game last night was totally unsuited to that fixture. Fred at full back in a back 4 that was not strong enough. Labyad and Kacka in midfield with Cairney and a knackered O'Hara in the engine room. No wonder we got stuffed. Jokanovic got it right Saturday and wrong last night. Easy to be wise after the event but players like Ince and Stearman should have been drafted in and should play next week v Leeds.
Interesting that McCormack gave a brief interview after the game, suggest that was Jokanovics work !
To take a positive, Jokanovic will have learned a lot about the lack of character, leadership and desire from certain players and will remember games like this when he plans his squad for next season. As someone said, I can see considerable re-balancing of the squad in the summer.
He's been in charge for seventeen games and it took last night for him to realise the lack of character in some players?!!!!!
Not sure where you are getting 17 from?
As I say I didn't see last night, but there was certainly character against Hull, Derby and QPR. Also effort and determination against Sheff Wed in the league. Under Slav I haven't seen a lacklustre performance that we saw frequently under Jol, Felix, Kit and Grant.
I imagine it was a shock to him too. Certainly I think from his post match comments it was. Perhaps it's not only Parker that can't play 2 games in 4 days, seemingly O'Hara in the engine room couldn't either.
When Parker doesnt play if feels like we lack leadership on the pitch, someone to drag the team through tricky spells. Neither McCormack or Burn seem to be able to do that.
I think the imminent squad clear out, is probably also partly responsible. Rather than playing for their futures, most of them just dont seem bothered.
I have to say, I'm a little surprised that Stearman and Smith arent getting used more
Quote from: MJG on February 17, 2016, 11:18:25 AM
Luke Garbutt @luke_garbutt
Apologises to fans and my teammates @FulhamFC last night my performance was simply not good enough I will learn from this huge game sat!
Talk is cheap
I don't like 'digging out' individuals. The team as a whole failed, but to those who claim Garbutt is a problem just remember that he did very well at QPR and remember his excellent performance at Bristol City when we won 4-1. He is inconsistent - that's perhaps why he's not playing in the Prem (yet).
How has SK been in charge for 17 games?
Quote from: win-dup on February 17, 2016, 01:45:55 PM
Quote from: FulhamStu on February 17, 2016, 11:39:22 AM
Lots of very good comments on here. I agree that Garbutt does appear to have a billy big bollocks attitude at times. The team that finished the game last night was totally unsuited to that fixture. Fred at full back in a back 4 that was not strong enough. Labyad and Kacka in midfield with Cairney and a knackered O'Hara in the engine room. No wonder we got stuffed. Jokanovic got it right Saturday and wrong last night. Easy to be wise after the event but players like Ince and Stearman should have been drafted in and should play next week v Leeds.
Interesting that McCormack gave a brief interview after the game, suggest that was Jokanovics work !
To take a positive, Jokanovic will have learned a lot about the lack of character, leadership and desire from certain players and will remember games like this when he plans his squad for next season. As someone said, I can see considerable re-balancing of the squad in the summer.
He's been in charge for seventeen games and it took last night for him to realise the lack of character in some players?!!!!!
In fairness the general attitude has been much better in his much less than 17 games in charge. However for whatever reason, cold tues up north type thing, it all went pear shaped last night, so yes, this would have been the first time Jokanovic would have witnessed how weak we can be. Having said that, he was in charge when we got thrashed by Watford last season, trouble was, he was not in charge of Fulham !
Quote from: Southcoastffc on February 17, 2016, 02:41:54 PM
I don't like 'digging out' individuals. The team as a whole failed, but to those who claim Garbutt is a problem just remember that he did very well at QPR and remember his excellent performance at Bristol City when we won 4-1. He is inconsistent - that's perhaps why he's not playing in the Prem (yet).
Error, he did not come on until the 87th minutes at Bristol !
Quote from: Southcoastffc on February 17, 2016, 02:41:54 PM
I don't like 'digging out' individuals. The team as a whole failed, but to those who claim Garbutt is a problem just remember that he did very well at QPR and remember his excellent performance at Bristol City when we won 4-1. He is inconsistent - that's perhaps why he's not playing in the Prem (yet).
No intent to be nasty here but it's also an indication that even this level may be too much too soon for him.
O'Hara's statement that the training under Jokanovic is far more "intensive" says it all for me.
Symons is a lovely bloke and gave good service to the club. He just lacked the gravitas, the experience, the judgement and the passion to be the type of manager that a club in Fulham's position needs. It's not his fault. It's clearly the management's fault that he was hired in the first place (which we all wanted - but we were wrong). Next mistake was in keeping him too long.
The differences between Symons and Jokanovic are very evident. The Serb understands the game better, understands the players better and understands what needs to be done better. The problem is that he is working with a confused squad that lacks the confidence and the balance necessary to produce solid performances and results week-in/week-out.
I will give him time - a lot more time. After all, we gave it to Hodgson. Look how long it took him to turn the problem around.
Nogood "time, she flexes like a whore, isit" Boyo
Quote from: NogoodBoyo on February 17, 2016, 05:33:24 PM
O'Hara's statement that the training under Jokanovic is far more "intensive" says it all for me.
Symons is a lovely bloke and gave good service to the club. He just lacked the gravitas, the experience, the judgement and the passion to be the type of manager that a club in Fulham's position needs. It's not his fault. It's clearly the management's fault that he was hired in the first place (which we all wanted - but we were wrong). Next mistake was in keeping him too long.
The differences between Symons and Jokanovic is very evident. The Serb understands the game better, understands the players better and understands what needs to be done better. The problem is that he is working with a confused squad that lacks the confidence and the balance necessary to produce solid performances and results week-in/week-out.
I will give him time - a lot more time. After all, we gave it to Hodgson. Look how long it took him to turn the problem around.
Nogood "time, she flexes like a whore, isit" Boyo
finally a Fulham fan who looks at it the same way as me.
not many of us
How old is Garbutt - 19-20? Before the 'lack of respect' brigade get on their horses look around at some of the supposed seasoned performers. Seen much that impresses you?
Quote from: SW6 on February 17, 2016, 07:28:46 PM
Quote from: NogoodBoyo on February 17, 2016, 05:33:24 PM
O'Hara's statement that the training under Jokanovic is far more "intensive" says it all for me.
Symons is a lovely bloke and gave good service to the club. He just lacked the gravitas, the experience, the judgement and the passion to be the type of manager that a club in Fulham's position needs. It's not his fault. It's clearly the management's fault that he was hired in the first place (which we all wanted - but we were wrong). Next mistake was in keeping him too long.
The differences between Symons and Jokanovic is very evident. The Serb understands the game better, understands the players better and understands what needs to be done better. The problem is that he is working with a confused squad that lacks the confidence and the balance necessary to produce solid performances and results week-in/week-out.
I will give him time - a lot more time. After all, we gave it to Hodgson. Look how long it took him to turn the problem around.
Nogood "time, she flexes like a whore, isit" Boyo
finally a Fulham fan who looks at it the same way as me.
not many of us
I don't know, SW6 - I think there are many on here who are prepared to invest time and patience in Jokanovic. Most seem to recognise he was dealt several bad hands: A troubled squad, the embargo, incredibly poor management from the board, political strife and demoralising politics from Kahn Jnr and his aggressive Statsman.
As in any dysfunctional corporation, those malodorous influences seep right down from on high to the coaches' office and out onto the pitch. It's going to take one heck of a strong character to succeed under those conditions. But I really like the look of how Jokanovic is dealing with them thus far.
Nogood "the ship is adrift in the Thames but we have a good man at the helm, isit" Boyo
I wonder though if SJ is being given more slack because he 'looks the part'. He's young, European, serious, grave looking. Kit, on the other hand was oft criticised for appearing 'too nice', for having his hands in his pockets, for not shouting enough, for being too jovial.
Clearly, it wasn't as simple as replacing Kit with a tougher guy, because it's made no difference to results, or to consistency (e.g. QPR followed by Blackburn), in fact results have got worse. And we've got several supposedly better players in.
Not to say SJ is not a better manager (I really hope he is), but to say that Kit was probably doing an O.K. job with the players he had at his disposal and did not deserve some of the vitriol dished out to him (though that was more on TIFF than FoF). Kit wouldn't have got us promoted, but he wouldn't have had us on the edge of the relegation zone either.
I agree with everything boyo has said in his last two posts.
I declared when ee appointed him that I wouldn't judge joka's results this season and I won't. Blackburn aside we've been on the way up and at least it's clear that joka has a plan. The consistency will always be the last thing to arrive. He'll keep us up and next year will hopefully be much more interesting.
Quote from: MikeW on February 17, 2016, 07:33:50 PM
How old is Garbutt - 19-20? Before the 'lack of respect' brigade get on their horses look around at some of the supposed seasoned performers. Seen much that impresses you?
22.
I am amazed to see people getting on the Head Coach's back already. Even some whom I know rarely attend games too.
With 'fans' like that we have no chance.
I think Jokanovic is a coach who can get Fulham where the club is stating its ambitions lie. He is capable of putting together a squad good enough and well orgainsed/motivated enough to get promotion next season. In many ways Kit did an excellent job, however in my humble opinion, Kit was never going to get us to the level the team required for promotion.
Since his appointment it's been small steps in the right direction every game, then a big leap at QPR and a massive drop off at Blackburn. The Blackburn game will have shown Jokanovic at first hand what we have been seeing for 3 seasons now. It will be very interesting to see how he deals with it.
Quote from: Snibbo on February 18, 2016, 05:19:10 AM
I wonder though if SJ is being given more slack because he 'looks the part'. He's young, European, serious, grave looking. Kit, on the other hand was oft criticised for appearing 'too nice', for having his hands in his pockets, for not shouting enough, for being too jovial.
Clearly, it wasn't as simple as replacing Kit with a tougher guy, because it's made no difference to results, or to consistency (e.g. QPR followed by Blackburn), in fact results have got worse. And we've got several supposedly better players in.
Not to say SJ is not a better manager (I really hope he is), but to say that Kit was probably doing an O.K. job with the players he had at his disposal and did not deserve some of the vitriol dished out to him (though that was more on TIFF than FoF). Kit wouldn't have got us promoted, but he wouldn't have had us on the edge of the relegation zone either.
I totally agree ("looks the part") - perception is a big thing with football managers, as it is with politicians ; and I agree with the rest of your post.
If I was a member of the team at Blackburn then I would fear facing SJ on Wednesday far more than I would fear facing KS, if he was still in charge.
Quote from: NogoodBoyo on February 17, 2016, 10:28:22 PM
Quote from: SW6 on February 17, 2016, 07:28:46 PM
Quote from: NogoodBoyo on February 17, 2016, 05:33:24 PM
O'Hara's statement that the training under Jokanovic is far more "intensive" says it all for me.
Symons is a lovely bloke and gave good service to the club. He just lacked the gravitas, the experience, the judgement and the passion to be the type of manager that a club in Fulham's position needs. It's not his fault. It's clearly the management's fault that he was hired in the first place (which we all wanted - but we were wrong). Next mistake was in keeping him too long.
The differences between Symons and Jokanovic is very evident. The Serb understands the game better, understands the players better and understands what needs to be done better. The problem is that he is working with a confused squad that lacks the confidence and the balance necessary to produce solid performances and results week-in/week-out.
I will give him time - a lot more time. After all, we gave it to Hodgson. Look how long it took him to turn the problem around.
Nogood "time, she flexes like a whore, isit" Boyo
finally a Fulham fan who looks at it the same way as me.
not many of us
I don't know, SW6 - I think there are many on here who are prepared to invest time and patience in Jokanovic. Most seem to recognise he was dealt several bad hands: A troubled squad, the embargo, incredibly poor management from the board, political strife and demoralising politics from Kahn Jnr and his aggressive Statsman.
As in any dysfunctional corporation, those malodorous influences seep right down from on high to the coaches' office and out onto the pitch. It's going to take one heck of a strong character to succeed under those conditions. But I really like the look of how Jokanovic is dealing with them thus far.
Nogood "the ship is adrift in the Thames but we have a good man at the helm, isit" Boyo
I share this opinion too and I am sure there are plenty of others prepared to give the man time.
Indeed, I'm happier with this management appointment than I have been with the previous 4. Although if I'm telling the truth I really thought Mo had lost it when he appointed Roy.
Quote from: snarks on February 18, 2016, 02:32:30 PM
Indeed, I'm happier with this management appointment than I have been with the previous 4. Although if I'm telling the truth I really thought Mo had lost it when he appointed Roy.
That brought a smile to my face, Snarks. Most of us had no clue who he was and thought "isn't he a bit ancient?"
My biggest concern about Roy was that he was always on the move (rather like Jok?). Sadly, I was proved right as far as we were concerned. Still, his career did take a big upswing after nearly drowning in the Pool.
Nogood "and that was down to Fulham, isit" Boyo
Quote from: Snibbo on February 18, 2016, 05:19:10 AM
I wonder though if SJ is being given more slack because he 'looks the part'. He's young, European, serious, grave looking. Kit, on the other hand was oft criticised for appearing 'too nice', for having his hands in his pockets, for not shouting enough, for being too jovial.
Clearly, it wasn't as simple as replacing Kit with a tougher guy, because it's made no difference to results, or to consistency (e.g. QPR followed by Blackburn), in fact results have got worse. And we've got several supposedly better players in.
Not to say SJ is not a better manager (I really hope he is), but to say that Kit was probably doing an O.K. job with the players he had at his disposal and did not deserve some of the vitriol dished out to him (though that was more on TIFF than FoF). Kit wouldn't have got us promoted, but he wouldn't have had us on the edge of the relegation zone either.
Getting Watford promoted is the element that demands most respect. He is beginning with a full understanding of his destination.
Quote from: Carborundum on February 18, 2016, 09:06:04 PM
Quote from: Snibbo on February 18, 2016, 05:19:10 AM
I wonder though if SJ is being given more slack because he 'looks the part'. He's young, European, serious, grave looking. Kit, on the other hand was oft criticised for appearing 'too nice', for having his hands in his pockets, for not shouting enough, for being too jovial.
Clearly, it wasn't as simple as replacing Kit with a tougher guy, because it's made no difference to results, or to consistency (e.g. QPR followed by Blackburn), in fact results have got worse. And we've got several supposedly better players in.
Not to say SJ is not a better manager (I really hope he is), but to say that Kit was probably doing an O.K. job with the players he had at his disposal and did not deserve some of the vitriol dished out to him (though that was more on TIFF than FoF). Kit wouldn't have got us promoted, but he wouldn't have had us on the edge of the relegation zone either.
Getting Watford promoted is the element that demands most respect. He is beginning with a full understanding of his destination.
Unfortunate we don't have the ability to pluck players from Udinese to help our cause, much more of a challenge with us, I hope he can do it!
I just hope he is given the same lack of respect and time that Kit was.
He deserves no more.
If we still had Kit we'd be much further up the table. If Mike Rigg wasn't here, Kit would still be manager imo.
Quote from: Wimbledon_White on February 19, 2016, 09:20:45 AM
I just hope he is given the same lack of respect and time that Kit was.
He deserves no more.
If we still had Kit we'd be much further up the table. If Mike Rigg wasn't here, Kit would still be manager imo.
I agree that kit got, in my view, an unfairly hard time. However Jok appears to be a different class of manager, he does deserve time to try and sort things out, and it is very clear things are changing. Let's face it a tactical sub on 45 mins, and a sub of a poor player on 35 mins. I can't think of the last time that happened.
Kit got a year. If there is no clear view that we have improved markedly in a year under J, he'll deserve to go. However, there is already good evidence (Blackburn away excepted) that we are improving, and hopefully that will become so evident over the next few months that even the most Kit-fixated posters will be able to see it.
We are massively better. Blackburn apart.
In the games against Derby both home and away, and Hull, I thought there was no way we looked a weaker team than the oppo. Wednesday at home was disappointing in that in the second half, despite being down, we mustered one attempt on goal in 45 minutes. That worried me. But there is little in sides at the top that separate them from the others. Consistency and organization that means they concede fewer goals .. I think we are getting there too.
Blackburn are a bit like us in my view, an underperforming team. When we beat them at home, I thought we rode our luck, and that they were the better team on the day. Their results since then have been a surprise as I still think few teams have taken a game to us as effectively as they did. Maybe they deserve a bit of credit as well. Mind you, all three goals we conceded were awful .. needless penalty, mix up between Madl and Lonergan, and Lonners really should have saved the third. But the worry was in the performance, and SJ made no bones about that. So let's see how the players react on Saturday.
