It's even possible to argue that he has made matters worse. The team selection and wholesale changes are absolutely baffling. I'm sorry but be needs to go along with many of the players. There is no way that he has got any players onside and I'll be shocked if any of our better players are convinced by him.
I know we have have chopped and changed but it's not a reason to stay with him and I certainly wouldn't trust him with a transfer budget ( if there is one).
I agree but can we afford another change at the top? They haven't helped in the past. But certainly his impact has been far worse than even I could have imagined.
Quote from: Statto on April 23, 2016, 05:15:07 PM
Sorry but he's had 3 months and no transfer window. What did you expect? We'll finish this season where we ended last season which is all that was ever going to happen. The last thing we need is another bloody manager sacking and more disarray. Stupid post I'm afraid
Not a stupid post at all. You keep imagining that managers can only make players worse. Other managers have managed to come into clubs and improve the teams. Instead we have a manager who has put players out of position and done worse than we were last year. Legitimate concern seems very fair to me.
Results and goals against suggest you are right. Not just in football but any management position, if things start to go wrong it is very easy to make matters worse by poor decisions. Panic can set in.
I dont see any games so cannot comment on style of play but the numbers suggest he might have lost the plot. (goals against, too many personnel changes, different formations etc.) Possibly at this stage trying a bit too hard to fix it.
I feel by now he should know his best 11, his best formation using those 11 and stick with it. He has done the opposite hasn't he?
From 3000 miles away, I don't have a lot of confidence in him. Hope I am wrong.
and no, it is not a stupid post.
OK not a stupid post just a stupid idea.
I thought he was the right person to be appointed but he has made little impact which has surprised and disappointed me. I would expect a good coach to improve these players and he hasn't. I don't see any point in changing him but there is something rotten about our club at the moment. I don't know whether it is Khan, Rigg, other Directors, some of the players but we are in a downward spiral and need to do something to arrest the decline. We're a shambles from top to bottom, with the notable exclusion of the Academy. If we're not careful all their good work will go to waste.
I'm just going to get in trouble arguing with you, so here's a picture of an angry Woy
(http://s31.postimg.org/uw7k3e2tj/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/uw7k3e2tj/)
change manager and we will be on our what 8th in 4 seasons? any decent manager would not want the job based on that alone. we need to give him time to get his own players in and see what he comes up with
Quote from: Statto on April 23, 2016, 05:23:06 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on April 23, 2016, 05:19:56 PM
Quote from: Statto on April 23, 2016, 05:15:07 PM
Sorry but he's had 3 months and no transfer window. What did you expect? We'll finish this season where we ended last season which is all that was ever going to happen. The last thing we need is another bloody manager sacking and more disarray. Stupid post I'm afraid
Not a stupid post at all. You keep imagining that managers can only make players worse. Other managers have managed to come into clubs and improve the teams. Instead we have a manager who has put players out of position and done worse than we were last year. Legitimate concern seems very fair to me.
Who was out of position today?
Where were we this time last year ?
I think you're the one imagining things mate
So Cairney playing wide and Ream at left back are positions they are comfortable in are they? When we changed managers we were an average side. Now we are poor. He hasn't improved our defence, conceding goals in every game bar 1 he has been in charge. So why keep going back to last season? We finished the season poorly last year. This year we have done the same but you keep saying it is stupid to criticise the manager.
I didn't make it today, so don't know how we played. I like him though. He at least deserves the chance to bring in the players he wants during the transfer window.
Quote from: Lighthouse on April 23, 2016, 05:35:19 PM
Quote from: Statto on April 23, 2016, 05:23:06 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on April 23, 2016, 05:19:56 PM
Quote from: Statto on April 23, 2016, 05:15:07 PM
Sorry but he's had 3 months and no transfer window. What did you expect? We'll finish this season where we ended last season which is all that was ever going to happen. The last thing we need is another bloody manager sacking and more disarray. Stupid post I'm afraid
Not a stupid post at all. You keep imagining that managers can only make players worse. Other managers have managed to come into clubs and improve the teams. Instead we have a manager who has put players out of position and done worse than we were last year. Legitimate concern seems very fair to me.
Who was out of position today?
Where were we this time last year ?
I think you're the one imagining things mate
So Cairney playing wide and Ream at left back are positions they are comfortable in are they? When we changed managers we were an average side. Now we are poor. He hasn't improved our defence, conceding goals in every game bar 1 he has been in charge. So why keep going back to last season? We finished the season poorly last year. This year we have done the same but you keep saying it is stupid to criticise the manager.
Cairney played all last season out wide. Ream has played CB and LB his whole career.
The players are the issue, not the manager.
Quote from: The Moose on April 23, 2016, 05:35:52 PM
I didn't make it today, so don't know how we played. I like him though. He at least deserves the chance to bring in the players he wants during the transfer window.
Why do you like him? I know many are really supportive of him. Other than the idea he can bring in his own players. Why do you like him and trust him? Genuine question and not meant as anything else. Other than he wears nice clothes I see nothing to be enthusiastic about.
not defending him or having a go at him, but being fair Cairney played wide for Blackburn for 2 seasons and Ream plays left back for the USA I believe, so they are not positions they are uncomfortable with, but may not necessarily be their best positions.
For me Cairney has been better when played more centrally pulling the strings, Ream for me has been average at both CB and LB this season
Quote from: Lighthouse on April 23, 2016, 05:38:47 PM
Quote from: The Moose on April 23, 2016, 05:35:52 PM
I didn't make it today, so don't know how we played. I like him though. He at least deserves the chance to bring in the players he wants during the transfer window.
Why do you like him? I know many are really supportive of him. Other than the idea he can bring in his own players. Why do you like him and trust him? Genuine question and not meant as anything else. Other than he wears nice clothes I see nothing to be enthusiastic about.
He took Watford up. He's proactive instead of reactive. They players don't like him because he is not Symons.
Quote from: Lighthouse on April 23, 2016, 05:38:47 PM
Quote from: The Moose on April 23, 2016, 05:35:52 PM
I didn't make it today, so don't know how we played. I like him though. He at least deserves the chance to bring in the players he wants during the transfer window.
Why do you like him? I know many are really supportive of him. Other than the idea he can bring in his own players. Why do you like him and trust him? Genuine question and not meant as anything else. Other than he wears nice clothes I see nothing to be enthusiastic about.
Hes not kit for one. I'm delighted we stayed up this season. After Ali mac and Rigg decided to keep kit on in the summer I thought we were certain for relegation. And add to that, that we weakend our squad again in the summer then it's a miracle that joka even has a chance to try and improve us in the summers
To add to my backing of him, if another manager did come in, he's not going to know what needs to be improved like SJ will. He's had 4 months with this team, and I'm sure he's spotted the weaknesses.
Great to see plan B was hoof ball with Smith........seriously??
Quote from: J.Perkins on April 23, 2016, 05:40:17 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on April 23, 2016, 05:38:47 PM
Quote from: The Moose on April 23, 2016, 05:35:52 PM
I didn't make it today, so don't know how we played. I like him though. He at least deserves the chance to bring in the players he wants during the transfer window.
Why do you like him? I know many are really supportive of him. Other than the idea he can bring in his own players. Why do you like him and trust him? Genuine question and not meant as anything else. Other than he wears nice clothes I see nothing to be enthusiastic about.
He took Watford up. He's proactive instead of reactive. They players don't like him because he is not Symons.
Why don't the players like him because he is not Symons? Doesn't make sense. He took Watford up but that means nothing this season. He is proactive? How? He makes subs when we are losing after the team he picks fails. I agree we don't need him to be sacked. But your only argument is it is all the players fault. I wish his supporters had better arguments as to why he is good enough.
As I said on another post,he baffles me sometimes.
Hutch n Burn played well at Ipswich and are left out of
the squad..
Must make some of the players question his decisions
sometimes...Strange.
Quote from: Lighthouse on April 23, 2016, 05:38:47 PM
Quote from: The Moose on April 23, 2016, 05:35:52 PM
I didn't make it today, so don't know how we played. I like him though. He at least deserves the chance to bring in the players he wants during the transfer window.
Why do you like him? I know many are really supportive of him. Other than the idea he can bring in his own players. Why do you like him and trust him? Genuine question and not meant as anything else. Other than he wears nice clothes I see nothing to be enthusiastic about.
The style of football has been good at times, certainly better than recent managers.
His use of subs is better than the last few managers as he's quite proactive.
I feel like he has a plan even if we aren't getting great results.
I trust him more than Kit or Felix.
Quote from: Lighthouse on April 23, 2016, 05:45:41 PM
Quote from: J.Perkins on April 23, 2016, 05:40:17 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on April 23, 2016, 05:38:47 PM
Quote from: The Moose on April 23, 2016, 05:35:52 PM
I didn't make it today, so don't know how we played. I like him though. He at least deserves the chance to bring in the players he wants during the transfer window.
Why do you like him? I know many are really supportive of him. Other than the idea he can bring in his own players. Why do you like him and trust him? Genuine question and not meant as anything else. Other than he wears nice clothes I see nothing to be enthusiastic about.
He took Watford up. He's proactive instead of reactive. They players don't like him because he is not Symons.
Why don't the players like him because he is not Symons? Doesn't make sense. He took Watford up but that means nothing this season. He is proactive? How? He makes subs when we are losing after the team he picks fails. I agree we don't need him to be sacked. But your only argument is it is all the players fault. I wish his supporters had better arguments as to why he is good enough.
players probably don't like him because he makes them do things like practice defending in training.
Quote from: fulhamben on April 23, 2016, 05:43:02 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on April 23, 2016, 05:38:47 PM
Quote from: The Moose on April 23, 2016, 05:35:52 PM
I didn't make it today, so don't know how we played. I like him though. He at least deserves the chance to bring in the players he wants during the transfer window.
Why do you like him? I know many are really supportive of him. Other than the idea he can bring in his own players. Why do you like him and trust him? Genuine question and not meant as anything else. Other than he wears nice clothes I see nothing to be enthusiastic about.
Hes not kit for one. I'm delighted we stayed up this season. After Ali mac and Rigg decided to keep kit on in the summer I thought we were certain for relegation. And add to that, that we weakend our squad again in the summer then it's a miracle that joka even has a chance to try and improve us in the summers
You see you are another one who blames other managers but have not said anything positive about SJ. I really wanted to know why he is well supported. But really it is just because we can't afford anymore changes and you didn't like Symons. As for not improving. I thought we sacked Symons for being dull and not being near the play offs. Nobody expected SJ to take us down to the verge of relegation.
Quote from: fulhamben on April 23, 2016, 05:49:33 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on April 23, 2016, 05:45:41 PM
Quote from: J.Perkins on April 23, 2016, 05:40:17 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on April 23, 2016, 05:38:47 PM
Quote from: The Moose on April 23, 2016, 05:35:52 PM
I didn't make it today, so don't know how we played. I like him though. He at least deserves the chance to bring in the players he wants during the transfer window.
Why do you like him? I know many are really supportive of him. Other than the idea he can bring in his own players. Why do you like him and trust him? Genuine question and not meant as anything else. Other than he wears nice clothes I see nothing to be enthusiastic about.
He took Watford up. He's proactive instead of reactive. They players don't like him because he is not Symons.
Why don't the players like him because he is not Symons? Doesn't make sense. He took Watford up but that means nothing this season. He is proactive? How? He makes subs when we are losing after the team he picks fails. I agree we don't need him to be sacked. But your only argument is it is all the players fault. I wish his supporters had better arguments as to why he is good enough.
players probably don't like him because he makes them do things like practice defending in training.
Bet the don't, as the defending is worse now than before.
Madness that everyone is turning against Jokanovic now, absolute madness. The guy, if backed correctly in the summer, will have us competing at the right end of the Championship, and I have no doubts about that what so ever.
His ability, albeit in the 3-4 months that he's been here, has been overshadowed by how much of an appalling state this Club has been in, and how many of those players have been allowed to rule with their attitudes.
If anything, I'm actually amazed as to how he's got us to safety with the bunch of mercenaries that he's had to work with.
Quote from: Lighthouse on April 23, 2016, 05:49:53 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on April 23, 2016, 05:43:02 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on April 23, 2016, 05:38:47 PM
Quote from: The Moose on April 23, 2016, 05:35:52 PM
I didn't make it today, so don't know how we played. I like him though. He at least deserves the chance to bring in the players he wants during the transfer window.
Why do you like him? I know many are really supportive of him. Other than the idea he can bring in his own players. Why do you like him and trust him? Genuine question and not meant as anything else. Other than he wears nice clothes I see nothing to be enthusiastic about.
Hes not kit for one. I'm delighted we stayed up this season. After Ali mac and Rigg decided to keep kit on in the summer I thought we were certain for relegation. And add to that, that we weakend our squad again in the summer then it's a miracle that joka even has a chance to try and improve us in the summers
You see you are another one who blames other managers but have not said anything positive about SJ. I really wanted to know why he is well supported. But really it is just because we can't afford anymore changes and you didn't like Symons. As for not improving. I thought we sacked Symons for being dull and not being near the play offs. Nobody expected SJ to take us down to the verge of relegation.
aren't we safe 8 points clear with two games to go? Hardly the verge of relegation.
Quote from: The Moose on April 23, 2016, 05:47:04 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on April 23, 2016, 05:38:47 PM
Quote from: The Moose on April 23, 2016, 05:35:52 PM
I didn't make it today, so don't know how we played. I like him though. He at least deserves the chance to bring in the players he wants during the transfer window.
Why do you like him? I know many are really supportive of him. Other than the idea he can bring in his own players. Why do you like him and trust him? Genuine question and not meant as anything else. Other than he wears nice clothes I see nothing to be enthusiastic about.
The style of football has been good at times, certainly better than recent managers.
His use of subs is better than the last few managers as he's quite proactive.
I feel like he has a plan even if we aren't getting great results.
I trust him more than Kit or Felix.
At last, thanks for that.
If the playing squad is the major problem, and is so bad, how come Kit got the team to mid-table yet currently we are 4th from bottom ?
I'm not convinced by Joka (not sure he was first choice when the club appointed him), but I feel he needs a transfer window and a pre-season, next season we should be aiming for a top ten finish, I can't see us making the play off's..... My concern is at board level Mr Mackintosh & Mr Rigg are two that appear to be having some sort of power struggle.....
I don't believe some of what I'm reading. I guess this is the same fans who backed Jol, mulunsteen, Magath and symons until it became impossible to do so.
I have across the last 2 seasons read plenty of posts from fans claiming that we had a wood squad and were underperforming. I remember being told that once Kit started the 15/16 season with some new players we would be challenging for promotion.
The facts are:-
1. It's been an awful season
2. Other then Cairney and madl the signings have been a disaster
3 sacking kit came too late, should have been last summer
4. Appointment of new defensive coach from shef wed was laughable
5. Performances and results under SJ have been
6. How has Warnock galvanised that squad at Rotherham to deliver that set of results ?
One of the previous posts sites the internal problems at the club and I would agree with the statement "rotten from top to bottom".
Moreover a contact whose company was contracted to do the ground development have pulled out, believing that there is not momentum or intention to start work on the ground.
I can't understand how anyone can't see that J is a cut above the last few managers we have had, because he clearly has a sense of how he wants the side to play, and the ability to modify that to match the abilities of the players at his disposal and the situation we have been in.
It is surely common ground that we have played the entire season with a wholly inadequate back four and, at best, an adequate keeper. With that as a handicap, everything else becomes very difficult. Responsibility for that lies squarely with Rigg and Kit. J has tried all combinations but basically the defensive personnel at his disposal have not proved good enough. Addressing that huge problem will be a top priority for the summer.
With an adequate to decent back four, and the mid field players and forwards we have, we'll be a much better side next season, and we'll see the team playing much as Watford did last year. Thus far J has had to compromise on that and grind out results, because no side can afford to be as attacking as he would wish us to be with a defence which consistently gives away two or three goals a game.
In addition to sorting out a new defensive line up, J has to address two other problems: replacing Dembele if he goes (hopefully just to Chelsea and loaned back), and Parker who, even if he stays, clearly can't play 90 minutes every game. Provided he gets the necessary financial backing, by this time next year I am absolutely confident we will be in a wholly different situation, making the play offs at least.
Quote from: Lighthouse on April 23, 2016, 05:19:56 PM
Quote from: Statto on April 23, 2016, 05:15:07 PM
Sorry but he's had 3 months and no transfer window. What did you expect? We'll finish this season where we ended last season which is all that was ever going to happen. The last thing we need is another bloody manager sacking and more disarray. Stupid post I'm afraid
The mix of players is not his fault, previous managers brought the players in and he has to make do with them. Hopefully he will get rid of a number of them and bring in more players who can play in their natural position rather than have them play out of position.
I can question the coaching, their third goal was a disgrace. all the defenders stopped following the opposition
Not a stupid post at all. You keep imagining that managers can only make players worse. Other managers have managed to come into clubs and improve the teams. Instead we have a manager who has put players out of position and done worse than we were last year. Legitimate concern seems very fair to me.
Newsflash: Our roster stinks and Joka cannot play the style of football he wants without having a window?
I'm not sure it's fair to judge him on the mess he inherited. He seemed perfectly capable at Watford in this division. Just because he can't "get enough results" with a poor roster doesn't mean he can't be quite good with a better one and some time.
Quote from: westcliff white on April 23, 2016, 05:33:00 PM
change manager and we will be on our what 8th in 4 seasons? any decent manager would not want the job based on that alone. we need to give him time to get his own players in and see what he comes up with
:54:
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on April 23, 2016, 06:11:39 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on April 23, 2016, 05:43:02 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on April 23, 2016, 05:38:47 PM
Quote from: The Moose on April 23, 2016, 05:35:52 PM
I didn't make it today, so don't know how we played. I like him though. He at least deserves the chance to bring in the players he wants during the transfer window.
Why do you like him? I know many are really supportive of him. Other than the idea he can bring in his own players. Why do you like him and trust him? Genuine question and not meant as anything else. Other than he wears nice clothes I see nothing to be enthusiastic about.
Hes not kit for one. I'm delighted we stayed up this season. After Ali mac and Rigg decided to keep kit on in the summer I thought we were certain for relegation. And add to that, that we weakend our squad again in the summer then it's a miracle that joka even has a chance to try and improve us in the summers
Matt Smith scored, the only one who did, I am keeping my powder dry over the Current Manager, once the season is over, that will signal that his honeymoon is also over.
So far he is not the second coming of Jesus.
What gets me is, that Neil Warnock is on an unbeaten run of 11 matches, and basically has worked a minor miracle, with a smaller and arguably a less talented squad, and have spent a fraction of what Fulham have, and the Rotherham supporters are eternally grateful.
Yet if he had been appointed Fulham manager and currently had the same record as Jok.
The same people who are making excuses for Jok, would no doubt be condemning Neil Warnock as useless, double standards, and that also applies to Kit, if he had been kept on, the same record would be used as a club to beat him over the head with, and rightly so.
So Jok better know what he is doing, cause a lot of people do not think he knows what he is doing. So when the season finishes, it's all his responsibility, nobody else to blame but him.
Let's hope he rises to the occasion. I am not sure the players buy into his management phylosophy, and they are not all mediocre players, so can he get the best out of those players that will be retained, and if he cannot, who can.
Cause he has about 12 weeks, and a transfer window, so time is not on his side.
good for Matt. Gets a goal every 20 games.
The one thing about Joka I like is that I dont think hes ever said " the stats show we were the better team and unlucky"
I like jokanovic. We are safe. We have had a bad season and our defence is rubbish. Next season is a new chapter. Give jokanovic till the end of October before you judge him. I think he will come good.
I, also, am on the fence with SJ but time will tell. My first choice was Pearson but that's history. SJ needs to build his own squad that plays with his style.its a mammoth task since the powers that be have destroyed the club over the past few seasons. Assuming the loan players return and the obvious ones leave and that includes McCormack and a couple retire we don't really have a lot. Maybe Carney, Cauley and Fredericks. So we only need a couple of dozen players.
Hmm- difficult one I think.
Do we want yet another new manager? but then do we want to go into a new season with a manger whose performance has been unconvincing?
His fans say -'give him a chance with his own team', while detractors say -' he' not done as well as Kit with the same players.'
He could come good, and hopefully he will.
Slavisa Jokanovic was a 90th minute goal conceded away from winning the Championship title at Watford.
The problem is in the players - we have no wingers, we have no full backs. Our two central midfielders that started today may not be here next season. We played with fear, we were out worked, we played within the width of the penalty box and nobody wanted to take on responsibility.
Jokanovic just took us on a run of three straight wins and then one loss in six - better form over the six previous matches than Burnley.
Our squad is unbalanced and until it's changed we will see no real progress - no matter who is in charge. You mention Neil Warnock - and sure, we could get results; we could go two banks of four and just lump it to Smith, but who's crossing the ball? Who's running for 90 minutes? Rotherham are on great form, but their squad suits Warnock's ugly style. We did go that way (successfully) to scrape safety and played Tunnicliffe as a wide man and Stearman and Ream as full backs; but that's covering cracks.
Stuart Gray is a good defensive coach - his record speaks for him. Slavisa Jokanovic is a good coach - his record speaks for him. Fulham are not a good team - the record speaks for them.
You can't make a silk purse from a pigs ear or on our case 11 pigs ears.
The original post said that Joka had made zero impact. Then we had a few hysterical arguments. But the fact is that he hasn't made any impact. The argument that we are playing better but losing is fair enough. I don't agree but fair enough. Then we have those who say the players are rubbish and we must wait until Joka brings his own players. As already stated this makes no sense as the man who was sacked was doing better with these players than Joka did and he was sacked for not being good enough.
So Joka has done nothing but we should probably give him a Summer. But as I predicted when he was appointed. I have a feeling that if we end up in the same position when we had the last change. We must stop the manager merry go round. But we really have seen nothing to suggest it will end.
Stability is the key
Quote from: Lighthouse on April 23, 2016, 07:02:31 PM
The original post said that Joka had made zero impact. Then we had a few hysterical arguments. But the fact is that he hasn't made any impact. The argument that we are playing better but losing is fair enough. I don't agree but fair enough. Then we have those who say the players are rubbish and we must wait until Joka brings his own players. As already stated this makes no sense as the man who was sacked was doing better with these players than Joka did and he was sacked for not being good enough.
So Joka has done nothing but we should probably give him a Summer. But as I predicted when he was appointed. I have a feeling that if we end up in the same position when we had the last change. We must stop the manager merry go round. But we really have seen nothing to suggest it will end.
I don't care if Kit's "ceiling" with this specific collection of players was slightly higher than Joka's. We're not aspiring to 13th place, and this roster is not remotely close to a promotion contender.
Stick with him, I say!
I'm disappointed it seems he hasn't found his best eleven and stuck it it more often and I'm not keen on some of his selections e.g. Ream and Stearman at FB (or anywhere else come to that).
But there's a fair argument that there's nobody else better to play FB, so I'm banking on the hope he's assessing as many players as possible and just trying to get the job of survival done and out of the way before starting afresh next season.
Only when the transfer window opens and the next season starts will we have a clue if things are going to improve, frankly I wouldn't bet on things getting much better, but that's not down to my thoughts on Jokanovic.
Quote from: J.Perkins on April 23, 2016, 05:40:17 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on April 23, 2016, 05:38:47 PM
Quote from: The Moose on April 23, 2016, 05:35:52 PM
I didn't make it today, so don't know how we played. I like him though. He at least deserves the chance to bring in the players he wants during the transfer window.
Why do you like him? I know many are really supportive of him. Other than the idea he can bring in his own players. Why do you like him and trust him? Genuine question and not meant as anything else. Other than he wears nice clothes I see nothing to be enthusiastic about.
He took Watford up. He's proactive instead of reactive. They players don't like him because he is not Symons.
Where does this "the players don't like him" come from & has it ever been substantiated ?
Sorry seen enough,not convinced by the "let him build his own team "argument. Too much chopping and changing ,square pegs in round holes Ala Symons, just makes me more gutted we never got Warburton
Quote from: Statto on April 23, 2016, 09:51:16 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on April 23, 2016, 07:02:31 PM
The original post said that Joka had made zero impact. Then we had a few hysterical arguments. But the fact is that he hasn't made any impact. The argument that we are playing better but losing is fair enough. I don't agree but fair enough. Then we have those who say the players are rubbish and we must wait until Joka brings his own players. As already stated this makes no sense as the man who was sacked was doing better with these players than Joka did and he was sacked for not being good enough.
So Joka has done nothing but we should probably give him a Summer. But as I predicted when he was appointed. I have a feeling that if we end up in the same position when we had the last change. We must stop the manager merry go round. But we really have seen nothing to suggest it will end.
if you agree with the OP that jokanovic has made zero impact all you need to is say "+1"
but once again you bring up symons and how the new manager is no better than symons
but you claim you don't want to sack the new manager
so after 100+ posts saying the same thing every week can you please tell us... what's your point?
What's the point in saying SJ is no improvement. Both, in reality, pointless posts.
Quote from: J.Perkins on April 23, 2016, 09:53:55 PM
Quote from: Statto on April 23, 2016, 09:51:16 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on April 23, 2016, 07:02:31 PM
The original post said that Joka had made zero impact. Then we had a few hysterical arguments. But the fact is that he hasn't made any impact. The argument that we are playing better but losing is fair enough. I don't agree but fair enough. Then we have those who say the players are rubbish and we must wait until Joka brings his own players. As already stated this makes no sense as the man who was sacked was doing better with these players than Joka did and he was sacked for not being good enough.
So Joka has done nothing but we should probably give him a Summer. But as I predicted when he was appointed. I have a feeling that if we end up in the same position when we had the last change. We must stop the manager merry go round. But we really have seen nothing to suggest it will end.
if you agree with the OP that jokanovic has made zero impact all you need to is say "+1"
but once again you bring up symons and how the new manager is no better than symons
but you claim you don't want to sack the new manager
so after 100+ posts saying the same thing every week can you please tell us... what's your point?
What's the point in saying SJ is no improvement. Both, in reality, pointless posts.
Once again Statto YOU brought up Symons AGAIN. As for the point after a 100 plus posts. Um I think I pretty much made it. Despite my question as to why you support SJ. Only one post actually gave a positive response. Which means despite your grumpy replies people really don't have much positive to say on why SJ is so liked. After 100 plus posts in his defense. You have NOTHING to add as to why we should support him other than MY point about sacking yet another manager.
We are safe = sack the manager? Jesus. If you don't rate how we are finishing in the table Kit should have gone by the same token last year. We were in a terrible run when he started, you seem to have forgotten that we took forever to get a new manager and kept losing in the interim.
Should we have a policy of sacking every manager every time the team loses? That seems to be certain peoples attitude.
And as far as people argue about our performances under SJ people were adamant that only results mattered when we were clearly playing better without getting the points. Then people complained when we got points on the board because it was "lucky" or didn't seem like we played well. Hypocritical much?
All this as well when he hasn't had the chance to make any proper signings, have a preseason working with a team he has shaped which is vital to get a team playing well in this league. Whilst I respect people can have their opinion, you really need to have a rethink on your outlook as there is something massively misguided there.
I'm not for a second being blindly loyal to him, it still might not work out in the long run but we need to actually give him a chance, at the very least a big chunk of next season.
Go to bed .
Ignore it.
Quote from: Lighthouse on April 23, 2016, 05:19:56 PM
Quote from: Statto on April 23, 2016, 05:15:07 PM
Sorry but he's had 3 months and no transfer window. What did you expect? We'll finish this season where we ended last season which is all that was ever going to happen. The last thing we need is another bloody manager sacking and more disarray. Stupid post I'm afraid
Not a stupid post at all. You keep imagining that managers can only make players worse. Other managers have managed to come into clubs and improve the teams. Instead we have a manager who has put players out of position and done worse than we were last year. Legitimate concern seems very fair to me.
Haha, I bet you are just loving being able to jump on a Joka out thread Lighthouse! Must have made your weekend.
All the chopping and changing people are moaning about, maybe he's trying different players out to see whether any fit into his plans for next year! Bringing another manager in again means players have to get used to another style of management which takes a while to get used to. Let's just give him the summer and see what the new season brings!!
Quote from: Andyb on April 24, 2016, 07:43:19 AM
All the chopping and changing people are moaning about, maybe he's trying different players out to see whether any fit into his plans for next year! Bringing another manager in again means players have to get used to another style of management which takes a while to get used to. Let's just give him the summer and see what the new season brings!!
Agree with this post.
I keep going through the squad thinking who would I keep ?
Certain Starters ?
McCormack
Errrrr Madl
Errrrr Cairney and Fred if playing 532
Dembele if we can get him back on loan
Ince if we can sign him.
I like Would keep the following as squad players
LVC, Woodrow, Williams, Betts, maybe Ream and Stearman.
The rest are not good enough, simple as that.
This is the squad that Rigg and Kit built and yet I would only have a couple of them in my starting 11 if I am serious about promotion. We have nothing out wide, no decent full backs and but for 2x outstanding goal scorers we would be relegated
Jokanovic needs to be given time, money and support to put this mess right. A very tough
Challenging job.
If I was Khan I would sack Rigg not Joka.
Ridiculous OP.Going into this game we were top 3 in the championship over the last six games. Jokanovic has made no difference ?
He has been evaluating his squad as well as trying to keep us up , and must be wondering how the hell he is going to be able to get rid of the players he doesnt fancy . There is obviously a long list.
We're in a mess and it's going to take a lot of patience and hard work to get us out of it. First monumental task is to get rid of underperformers in the summer and replace with better players.
Changing the manager again now will be a disaster.
Also some managers e.g warnock can come in and get results with whatever they have inherited. Other managers have to be given the chance to bring in their type of players. We need to give joka the next 2 transfer windows.
On the bright side he has bought in madl and ince both of whom have done well
Quote from: Denver Fulham on April 23, 2016, 06:13:02 PM
Newsflash: Our roster stinks and Joka cannot play the style of football he wants without having a window?
I'm not sure it's fair to judge him on the mess he inherited. He seemed perfectly capable at Watford in this division. Just because he can't "get enough results" with a poor roster doesn't mean he can't be quite good with a better one and some time.
I don't accept that we have a squad that stinks. On paper, it's a pretty decent squad with players who performed extremely well with their previous clubs and who have plenty of Championship experience between them. For some reason, they're not performing for Fulham - why that is, it's difficult to say.
I fully understand that these aren't SJ's players, but surely a good manager should be able to look at the team at his disposal and adapt the style of play to make the most of their strengths. SJ doesn't really seem to be doing this, certainly if we compare his results to Kit's with the same set of players.
I've been disappointed with SJ so far, but I think he should be given a summer transfer window and time to work with the players he chooses. We desperately need stability and continuity. Changing manager again would put us right back to square one.
Quote from: Statto on April 24, 2016, 12:37:17 AM
Quote from: Lighthouse on April 23, 2016, 11:40:05 PM
Once again Statto YOU brought up Symons AGAIN. As for the point after a 100 plus posts. Um I think I pretty much made it. Despite my question as to why you support SJ. Only one post actually gave a positive response. Which means despite your grumpy replies people really don't have much positive to say on why SJ is so liked. After 100 plus posts in his defense. You have NOTHING to add as to why we should support him other than MY point about sacking yet another manager.
Please stop lying.
First it was Joka's put players out of position. others have had to correct you on this.
then we've done worse than we were last year. when i point out this is wrong you say, why keep going back to last season?
then the defending is worse now than before. maybe you've forgotten we conceded over 80 goals last year.
Now apparently i've brought up symons but if you scroll up you'll see no one had mentioned symons at all when you started banging the same old drum, "When we changed managers we were an average side"...
You say you don't want Joka sacked but all you do is moan about him. would it make sense to you if i moaned about the same player every week but then said "we shouldn't sell him, we should keep him in the team"? No. So sorry but i really don't understand your point still. Unless perhaps you are lying (again) and actually you'd love it if Joka was sacked.
Last post by me on this. As you seem have to insult people who don't agree with you. Players are out of position. Just because they have played there in the past doesn't mean they are any good. Like playing John Mitchel in goal because he played there before. Cairney has even stated he doesn't like playing wide and is better in the middle. Secondly I asked fans of our manager why they liked him. A few mentioned Symons. He wasn't Symons, he is better than Symons. I then point out this doesn't make sense as Symons did better with this squad. You and SJs other fans have not yet come up with anything positive other than one poster who didn't have to insult those who asked a question. Lastly we really can't afford to keep sacking managers. But no I don't like any manager who fails at Fulham and brings us to the edge of relegation. I know you do and I know you have to call people 'stupid' and call them liars because you can't give me a proper debate. Best if we put each other on our 'ignore' list. I enjoy debate but throwing childish insults about is something I am amazed people have to resort to on a MB where they both support the same side.
Ultimately there is no ambition for our football club from the owner. The managerial appointments since he came to us have been baffling and resulted in failure. When Symons was ejected, we all prayed that the club now had the opportunity to make a high end appointment with real credentials to lead us forward. Sadly we looked in the clearance bin and after a couple of mid level rejections we came across SJ. This was not a coup for the club and once again many supporters are looking for new leadership. I am personally completely baffled by his team selections and have never known a squad where people seem to start matches only to find that they don't even make the bench the following week.You couldn't ever second guess what he is thinking and I don't see the "type" of football that he is trying to install. Attending games is as depressing now as it was under any of the last 3 managers. I did not want Symons to get the job and I believe he should have left at the end of last season with a thank you. I have to agree however that he did a better job with the current squad then SJ.
Thank god for the Tigana and Hodgson days, im running on empty but those memories convince me that you can turn turn things around with the right leadership.
Quote from: howitis on April 24, 2016, 12:56:23 PM
Ultimately there is no ambition for our football club from the owner. The managerial appointments since he came to us have been baffling and resulted in failure. When Symons was ejected, we all prayed that the club now had the opportunity to make a high end appointment with real credentials to lead us forward. Sadly we looked in the clearance bin and after a couple of mid level rejections we came across SJ. This was not a coup for the club and once again many supporters are looking for new leadership. I am personally completely baffled by his team selections and have never known a squad where people seem to start matches only to find that they don't even make the bench the following week.You couldn't ever second guess what he is thinking and I don't see the "type" of football that he is trying to install. Attending games is as depressing now as it was under any of the last 3 managers. I did not want Symons to get the job and I believe he should have left at the end of last season with a thank you. I have to agree however that he did a better job with the current squad then SJ.
Thank god for the Tigana and Hodgson days, im running on empty but those memories convince me that you can turn turn things around with the right leadership.
You clearly have no idea what happened over appointing SJ, so don't try and get a point across that is based on false knowledge.
He's had three months. He's had no chance to change personnel.
Give the man a break.
I've had lots of jobs and it is only after six months that I and those around me feel settled.
Let him have a pre-season. Let him have a transfer window. Give him the chance to set the tone for a season rather than inherit another bad one. We can then see what he can do.
When KS was sacked we were P 16 - 5W 5D and 6L - 8 points off 6th place - not a bad position for new squad with a rookie manager - ready to develop as a unit
I think you will find that many of our players have developed a poor attitude since the appointment of the Messiah
Why the need to have a wholesale clear-out ? - nobody was saying that after 16 games - it was more "the manager is useless" if I recall
Quote from: domprague on April 24, 2016, 03:28:58 PM
He's had three months. He's had no chance to change personnel.
Give the man a break.
I've had lots of jobs and it is only after six months that I and those around me feel settled.
Let him have a pre-season. Let him have a transfer window. Give him the chance to set the tone for a season rather than inherit another bad one. We can then see what he can do.
Give the man a chance.We wont know how good he has been for us till this time next year,i am really fed up after a few months that we have people slagging each other off on this board .give SJ a full season then judge as changing managers twice a season is not the awnser!!!
Quote from: howitis on April 24, 2016, 12:56:23 PM
Ultimately there is no ambition for our football club from the owner. The managerial appointments since he came to us have been baffling and resulted in failure. When Symons was ejected, we all prayed that the club now had the opportunity to make a high end appointment with real credentials to lead us forward. Sadly we looked in the clearance bin and after a couple of mid level rejections we came across SJ. This was not a coup for the club and once again many supporters are looking for new leadership. I am personally completely baffled by his team selections and have never known a squad where people seem to start matches only to find that they don't even make the bench the following week.You couldn't ever second guess what he is thinking and I don't see the "type" of football that he is trying to install. Attending games is as depressing now as it was under any of the last 3 managers. I did not want Symons to get the job and I believe he should have left at the end of last season with a thank you. I have to agree however that he did a better job with the current squad then SJ.
Thank god for the Tigana and Hodgson days, im running on empty but those memories convince me that you can turn turn things around with the right leadership.
Incredibly ignorant assessment. "Looked in the clearance bin"?? Have you even checked out SJ's CV?
Quote from: Twig on April 24, 2016, 05:56:11 PM
Quote from: howitis on April 24, 2016, 12:56:23 PM
Ultimately there is no ambition for our football club from the owner. The managerial appointments since he came to us have been baffling and resulted in failure. When Symons was ejected, we all prayed that the club now had the opportunity to make a high end appointment with real credentials to lead us forward. Sadly we looked in the clearance bin and after a couple of mid level rejections we came across SJ. This was not a coup for the club and once again many supporters are looking for new leadership. I am personally completely baffled by his team selections and have never known a squad where people seem to start matches only to find that they don't even make the bench the following week.You couldn't ever second guess what he is thinking and I don't see the "type" of football that he is trying to install. Attending games is as depressing now as it was under any of the last 3 managers. I did not want Symons to get the job and I believe he should have left at the end of last season with a thank you. I have to agree however that he did a better job with the current squad then SJ.
Thank god for the Tigana and Hodgson days, im running on empty but those memories convince me that you can turn turn things around with the right leadership.
Incredibly ignorant assessment. "Looked in the clearance bin"?? Have you even checked out SJ's CV?
and totally inaccurate. As I posted on Xmas day, we went for SJ early but he had made a promise to his wife that he wouldn't be moving anytime soon. That's why we started looking at the others
Quote from: Baszab on April 24, 2016, 03:32:28 PM
When KS was sacked we were P 16 - 5W 5D and 6L - 8 points off 6th place - not a bad position for new squad with a rookie manager - ready to develop as a unit
I think you will find that many of our players have developed a poor attitude since the appointment of the Messiah
Why the need to have a wholesale clear-out ? - nobody was saying that after 16 games - it was more "the manager is useless" if I recall
So you are ignoring what happened between kit going and SJ joining to spin it like it's all SJ that dragged us down. No win in 10 if I recall when he was appointed.
Yes I think it was that run of very poor results during the interegnum that really started the downward spiral this season.
