1. He did not "build" a team at Watford - he inherited Udinese B team
2. He has been relegated twice
3. His tenures rarely last more than 18 months
4. He clearly does NOT have the support of the players
5. He is not popular with the "Fulham" staff/players (not necessarily a bad thing)
6. He has made no impact whatsoever
7. He spends the whole game moaning at his "entourage" in the dug-out and criticising his players - He's the one who selects and trains them - He must take the blame
8. He hasn't decided on the best selection or tactics (if there are any ) in over 20 games
Please sack him and get a young enthusiastic manager from lower divisions (a la Adams)
We are in danger of dropping into the Jol syndrome again
My thoughts on this haven't changed since it was obvious he did not have a clue after 3 or 4 games in charge
Because you still can't seem to get over the sacking of your mate Kit, who, if was still in charge now, would certainly be taking us for a trip down to the Preistfields next season?
I'm sorry Bazab, but you've been on this guys back ever since he was appointed, so I can't take anything you say seriously.
Judge him when he's has a full season, with his players, and not the clap-trap that Kit and Rigg put together.
If you knew (which you clearly don't) the ego's and poisonous individuals that he and his backroom staff are having to deal with at present, as well as trying to grind out results, you may get off his back a little (but I doubt it).
Quote from: Wearethewhites on April 24, 2016, 12:00:55 PM
Because you still can't seem to get over the sacking of your mate Kit, who, if was still in charge now, would certainly be taking us for a trip down to the Preistfields next season?
I'm sorry Bazab, but you've been on this guys back ever since he was appointed, so I can't take anything you say seriously.
Judge him when he's has a full season, with his players, and not the clap-trap that Kit and Rigg put together.
If you knew (which you clearly don't) the ego's and poisonous individuals that he and his backroom staff are having to deal with at present, as well as trying to grind out results, you may get off his back a little (but I doubt it).
:plus one:
Anyone but kit for me. So that's why joka gets the nod from me.
Bit.of a broken record really. If you were willing to give joka the same.opportunity you would've given kit then I might find some sympathy with some of your points that I feel are valid. Unfortunately you are so biased I can't take you seriously.
Quote from: Baszab on April 24, 2016, 11:52:45 AM
My thoughts on this haven't changed since it was obvious he did not have a clue after 3 or 4 games in charge
HAHAHA, im glad you gave him a fair crack at it before making your mind up.
I asked the same question about SJ. I wanted to know what was it that made him so liked by so many. Interesting that very few could give me an answer that wasn't anti previous managers and just insulting to the question.
Those that did answer properly said that they thought we played better despite the results and he was more proactive with subs. The vast majority thought that he should be given a transfer window to try and bring in his players.
So I think the answer to the question is that despite the angry and often abusive nature of the argument for SJ. Few have any real positive reasons for keeping him. Other than the one that states he needs more time and can we really just keep sacking managers. My fear is that come Christmas we will be doing exactly that. But time will tell.
Quote from: Lighthouse on April 24, 2016, 12:54:45 PM
I asked the same question about SJ. I wanted to know what was it that made him so liked by so many. Interesting that very few could give me an answer that wasn't anti previous managers and just insulting to the question.
Those that did answer properly said that they thought we played better despite the results and he was more proactive with subs. The vast majority thought that he should be given a transfer window to try and bring in his players.
So I think the answer to the question is that despite the angry and often abusive nature of the argument for SJ. Few have any real positive reasons for keeping him. Other than the one that states he needs more time and can we really just keep sacking managers. My fear is that come Christmas we will be doing exactly that. But time will tell.
if he makes it till xmas then he would have done better than the TV pundit
Shocking post, Full faith in Joka, best manager we've had in a while.
These posts about Joka are abit pointless, hes not going to be sacked till atleast October, so what is the point in giving him abuse?? Wont change anything. Get behind the man we have in and the club might actually achieve something
Its like a dog with a rat in its mouth. Prior to yesterday we took 11 points from a possible 18 and we were one of the best form teams in the division.
Its been a very poor season and the root of the problem was carry on with Kit when he should have been shown the door in the summer. This was one of many mistakes made by the club .
I understand peoples frustration and feel it , but the squad put togethher by Kit and rigg was woefully unbalanced and lacked quality . Thankfully Joka brought in Ince , Madl and Amorbietta , as well as convincing mousa and ross to stay . We should be grateful to him for that and pulling out the results at the most pressurised ,critical points of the season .
Lets see what we can build from the summers inevitable turn over of players . Jokanovic is not perfect but ,unlike Kit is no mug .
The strongest answer is that he annoys the hell out of Baszab and Lighthouse which must indicate that Jokanovic should be the man for us.
He wears a nice suit
Oh and by the way , the reason we will and should retain him(Joka ) is because he is clearly KHans man and i believe Khan will back him with the funds needed . This was clearly never going to happen with Kit in charge .
I don't care if some players don't like him. I find it hard to have any affinity for a lot of our players given their attitude and performance on the pitch, and they've had it too easy for a while. If they want to be poisonous to our club then they can piss off.
Joka
Played 22, Won 6, Drawn 6, Lost 10 - Win 22%.....from 22 games 24 points (66 points max)
Warnock
Played 14, Won 6, Drawn 6, Lost 2 - Win 42.6%.......from 14 games 24 points (42 points max)
Are Rotherham a better team than ours?
Rotherham were below us before Joka took over
Is it quite simply that Warnock is a better manager than Joka?
So no reason at all from anyone - no basis whatsoever that he has shown any spark of rejuvenating our team - which does have some very good individual players
I never mentioned KS - who is history (don't know why so many have a hangup about him on this message board)
I fell we need fresh managerial blood - not a mercenary like SJ
I am fully aware of the dressing room problems - and SJ is not solving them at the moment - it will be better next year once certain players leave (especially ones that score lots of goals)
It's not heresy to have a different view about our useless manager - it is not a "wind-up" if some of us can see through SJ and his pathetic tactics and selection
We were the form team - we had 3 lucky wins - as we were due some luck over 46 games
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on April 24, 2016, 01:05:13 PM
The strongest answer is that he annoys the hell out of Baszab and Lighthouse which must strongly indicate that Jokanovic should be the man for us.
064.gif
I am amazed that anyone could have been looking forward to our future with SJ after watching yesterday's pathetic shambolic display
All I could see was glum faces and total dismay - especially in the directors' box
I want us to have a manager for a couple of years and see if someone can actually build rather than dismantle.
My god this message board is a frustrating place to be at times.
I keep having to tell myself that everyone is entitled to their own opinions
Quote from: Baszab on April 24, 2016, 01:41:44 PM
I am amazed that anyone could have been looking forward to our future with SJ after watching yesterday's pathetic shambolic display
All I could see was glum faces and total dismay - especially in the directors' box
I am amazed that anyone thinks constant changing of managers is a good idea.
I am amazed that anyone could think that we stick with what we've got because "it must turn out better in the end" ?
What is the logic in that ?
Quote from: Baszab on April 24, 2016, 02:03:13 PM
I am amazed that anyone could think that we stick with what we've got because "it must turn out better in the end" ?
What is the logic in that ?
No, im thinking stick with what we`ve got because its unfair to judge a manager when he walks into a club halfway through a season. Especially when that clubs been on a downward spiral for so long like ours. Its going to take time to change.
Your logic seems to be "lets keep changing manager until we hopefully find one that can completely change the mentality and style of play of the team straight away and then carry on winning". Its abit unrealistic isn't it?
He has inherited an abomination of a team.
The areas which were key for his style of play are missing.
He slags off the team because they are playing atrociously, not giving any effort at all.
The players most liked Symons because he was easy, happy with points at Charlton and MK.
Sacking him would mean another manager having to try and evaluate the squad, with no primary knowledge on it.
He wanted to join us, knowing of our situation, knowing that we had an embargo, because he is up for the challenge.
He job was never anything more than keep us up this season, for which he would've succeeded.
He managed to keep hold of McCormack and Dembele, against all the odds. I can guarantee that Symons would have never been that adamant.
He doesn't keep the same team because he has tried countless styles of play, dissolving down to keeping it "simple" because it "confuses the players".
It is not his fault that the players gave 10% against Forrest.
He is our future, and a future I look forward to after the mess Magath and Symons caused.
Plus, the joke of a manager that Symons was had a chance to build a team. Why shouldn't SJ?
Statto
I agree with you that the fact J had success with Watford is a reason to think he is the right man. But primary for me is the evidence of what he has done for us.
We've had some very poor performances while he has been in charge but in most we have looked more purposeful, fitter and team-like than we ever did under Kit.
And, difficult to prove of course, but from J's demeanour and what he says after matches it is clear to me that he is very angry that, despite the best efforts of himself and his coaching staff, he cannot get consistently adequate performances from some members of the team, ie we have proved to be a weaker squad then he had anticipated. If I am right I expect to see a very considerable clear out, as he seeks to get rid of those who either lack the competence or commitment to play as he wants us to, and bring in others who can.
It remains possible that Lighthouse and others will be proved right and that well before the end of next season we will be no better off than we are now (and thank goodness there are three teams this season even less capable than us). But most of us not only hope, but expect on the basis of what we have seen, that next season will be very much better.
I cannot believe anyone things we should have an 8th manager in 3 and a half years. We need stability and give a manager time to build.
I was no Kit fan but for me having kept him he should have seen the season out, but we made the change and SJ should have the opportunity to buy the players he wants (much as Kit did) and to put them into the style he wants to play. The big mistake was taking 2 months to get SJ, they should have kept Kit and made no change till they knew he would be ready to start. Could have been a different situation then, alas we will never know for sure
What absolute nonsense. Some facts; Joka has inherited a bunch of playboys with little cohesion and a s***house attitude. Many of these players are a cancer to this football club. At least give Joka a chance to weed out the mercenaries and build a team.
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on April 24, 2016, 01:18:15 PM
Joka
Played 22, Won 6, Drawn 6, Lost 10 - Win 22%.....from 22 games 24 points (66 points max)
Warnock
Played 14, Won 6, Drawn 6, Lost 2 - Win 42.6%.......from 14 games 24 points (42 points max)
Are Rotherham a better team than ours?
Rotherham were below us before Joka took over
Is it quite simply that Warnock is a better manager than Joka?
Warnock the better manager to come in and make an instant impact, gets the lads fired up. But no way near as a good a coach, hes a motivator. But he wont build anything long term, If he took over Rotherham at the start of the season he would have been sacked by January. Watch how he does next season, relegation battle again.
I am not sure what the last observation is based on
When KS was sacked we were P 16 - 5W 5D and 6L - 8 points off 6th place - not a bad position for new squad with a rookie manager - ready to develop as a unit
I think you will find that many of our players have developed a poor attitude since the appointment of the Messiah
Quote from: Baszab on April 24, 2016, 03:30:37 PM
I am not sure what the last observation is based on
When KS was sacked we were P 16 - 5W 5D and 6L - 8 points off 6th place - not a bad position for new squad with a rookie manager - ready to develop as a unit
I think you will find that many of our players have developed a poor attitude since the appointment of the Messiah
If you still haven't developed over 16 games, you never will.
Who KS or SJ ?
Because SJ hasn't developed over more than 20 games
1. He appears tactically aware
2. He tells it like it is
3. The team is generally better under him
4. He can see the weaknesses
5. He's not afraid to change starting line ups to suit teams
6. He accepts his own mistakes
7. He did a good job hanging on to moussa and Ross in January
8. He has a good record over his last 2 clubs
Those are my reasons for keeping him and not changing him, there may be others if I care to think long enough. Some will disagree, but I don't really care if you do, that's the joy of football, opinions. Having said that I was pro kit until removed, I'll be pro Slavisa until he's changed too.
Quote from: snarks on April 24, 2016, 04:41:18 PM
1. He appears tactically aware
2. He tells it like it is
3. The team is generally better under him
4. He can see the weaknesses
5. He's not afraid to change starting line ups to suit teams
6. He accepts his own mistakes
7. He did a good job hanging on to moussa and Ross in January
8. He has a good record over his last 2 clubs
Those are my reasons for keeping him and not changing him, there may be others if I care to think long enough. Some will disagree, but I don't really care if you do, that's the joy of football, opinions. Having said that I was pro kit until removed, I'll be pro Slavisa until he's changed too.
All good points and some open to debate and disagreement. Shame it took three pages of posts for somebody to come up with interesting positive points. But proof it can be done.
Quote from: Baszab on April 24, 2016, 03:59:39 PM
Who KS or SJ ?
Because SJ hasn't developed over more than 20 games
Ain't SJs team. Symons job to develop it.
I am in love with him
I take you all back to the mess of a squad Sanchez produced. Roy came in, and was struggling to get it to work. Scraped over the line, made a few major changes and created a strong PL team.
Fast forward 8 years, and you have the same situation now.
I'm backing him because he deserves a chance to mould his own team. Also because we need stability.
kind of agree with the original poster we have had so many team changes it just comes across like he has no clue and he has been given a hell of a lot longer than meulensteen - I remain undecided but hope he's what you guys think he is because it's getting tougher and tougher to watch
Who's Jakonovic and why are we changing manager again?
Joka has proved he can get teams out this division, with the summer ahead he'll know whats needed to sustain a promotion push next season, apart from Cairney every Symons signing has been average at best.
Quote from: Statto on April 24, 2016, 06:21:45 PM
Quote from: PokerMatt on April 24, 2016, 06:16:03 PM
Who's Jakonovic and why are we changing manager again?
interesting that there are Two anti "Jakonovic" threads on here at the moment by ostensibly different posters... do i detect a sock puppet?
I noticed this too. It's odd that two very anti-Jokanovic posters both spell it incorrectly the same way.
Might be on to something :hook:
I don't personally think we would have got relegated with Kit, neither do I think we would of made top 6. We should have replaced Kit in the summer and got a more experienced manager who could have got us to the play offs. All the dilly dallying with sacking Kit and not replacing him for so long, plus the transfer embargo did us in this season.
Here's my reason for keeping him. Right now Fulham change managers more often than tin pot republics get new heads of state.
If we're ever going to BUILD anything, we need to keep ONE manager for TWO FULL SEASONS. Otherwise, we're in a constant state of adjustment to the last guy.
So, yes, keep Joka for next season and the one after next. Somebody on this site is going to moan about whoever of manager is and about every single one of our players CONSTANTLY every week. But let's stop the panic. We've chosen our guy; let's keep him on the job. Sites like this are the natural home for fantasy management, tactics, and player selection. Let's have some stability at Motspur Park.
Quote from: Statto on April 24, 2016, 05:36:00 PM
Quote from: fulhams_finest on April 24, 2016, 05:14:07 PM
kind of agree with the original poster we have had so many team changes it just comes across like he has no clue and he has been given a hell of a lot longer than meulensteen - I remain undecided but hope he's what you guys think he is because it's getting tougher and tougher to watch
To add to the context point Meulensteen was in charge in a time where we playing Liverpool and United not Rotherham and MK Dons
Just to give some context, Mulensteen had 17 games. Jokanovic has had 21.
Quote from: Baszab on April 24, 2016, 11:52:45 AM
1. He did not "build" a team at Watford - he inherited Udinese B team
2. He has been relegated twice
3. His tenures rarely last more than 18 months
4. He clearly does NOT have the support of the players
5. He is not popular with the "Fulham" staff/players (not necessarily a bad thing)
6. He has made no impact whatsoever
7. He spends the whole game moaning at his "entourage" in the dug-out and criticising his players - He's the one who selects and trains them - He must take the blame
8. He hasn't decided on the best selection or tactics (if there are any ) in over 20 games
Please sack him and get a young enthusiastic manager from lower divisions (a la Adams)
We are in danger of dropping into the Jol syndrome again
My thoughts on this haven't changed since it was obvious he did not have a clue after 3 or 4 games in charge
:dead horse: fp.gif 090.gif
Didn't we just have our best run of form in years? 11 points from 18?
why are we even debating this. It seems quite obvious to me that the longer you can keep a manager the more stability you have. This has to lead to more chance of success.
When you look at the changes he has made game to game yes there have been a few. But many are injury led and suspensions. or just fact we played a lot of games and he rotated.
But lets look at some things....(Note I'm not including his first few games in charge and only from Derby onwards once Ince came in, think this is fair given transfer window and 'his' players)
So 16 games
26 players used
-Apart from one sub appearance Ross and Dembele have always started.
-Fredericks has been in and out of the team but made 11 starts and 4 appearances. Right back he has chopped and changed. But Fredericks cant last 90 mins, hes better at Wing Back and clearly with just 3 look ins Richards is a non starter.
Stearman won his place back recently at RB and although hot and cold I can see why RB has been a position thats required changes.
-Parker has played 14 of those games, amazing hes done that well and started them all recently.
-Cairney, well only injuury made him drop out and change required
-Madl, again a starter for most of the time apart from injury.
-Amorebieta missed only 3 of his games, one was enforced and apparently injurys for others.
-Tunnicliffe, once back he was into the team, Sub saturday but always around if required.
-Burn lost his place recently, both him and Hutch played well at Ipswich, but I think saturday may have been a case of they are both leaving, lets work with my two first choice CB's as it stands. Neither Burn or Hutch are exactly favs of anyone, and given a choice of Burn Hutch Vs Amore Madl who would fans prefer?
-Ohara and Garbutt started this run as first choice players but have been replaced by Ream and basically Tunnicliffe.
Then you have Kaca who has said he leaving and dopped since.
-Gk's swapped places.
-Ince apparently was told not fit enough, had a few weeks off to get better and it worked and first choice since.
What I'm trying to show is that the team he puts out has evolved over last 16 games, players come in and out as any do but there are some real obvious reasons for this.
Saturday was the first time you could say he changed the two CB's when maybe they could havce had another chance. But again both current and future planning came into play.
So you have
McCormack
Dembele
Fredericks
Parker
Cairney
Madl
Amorebieta
Betts/Lonergan
Tunnicliffe
who have been his hardcore team. You can now add Ince to that and possibly LVC since he came back and you have 11 players.
Its not perfect and we can all see where the weaknesses are. Our only hope is he gets the backing to bring in the pacy, quick minded, fit players we need. And not allow some good performances by some players cover over the fact they are not good enough for next season.
Quote from: MJG on April 25, 2016, 01:24:14 PM
When you look at the changes he has made game to game yes there have been a few. But many are injury led and suspensions. or just fact we played a lot of games and he rotated.
But lets look at some things....(Note I'm not including his first few games in charge and only from Derby onwards once Ince came in, think this is fair given transfer window and 'his' players)
So 16 games
26 players used
-Apart from one sub appearance Ross and Dembele have always started.
-Fredericks has been in and out of the team but made 11 starts and 4 appearances. Right back he has chopped and changed. But Fredericks cant last 90 mins, hes better at Wing Back and clearly with just 3 look ins Richards is a non starter.
Stearman won his place back recently at RB and although hot and cold I can see why RB has been a position thats required changes.
-Parker has played 14 of those games, amazing hes done that well and started them all recently.
-Cairney, well only injuury made him drop out and change required
-Madl, again a starter for most of the time apart from injury.
-Amorebieta missed only 3 of his games, one was enforced and apparently injurys for others.
-Tunnicliffe, once back he was into the team, Sub saturday but always around if required.
-Burn lost his place recently, both him and Hutch played well at Ipswich, but I think saturday may have been a case of they are both leaving, lets work with my two first choice CB's as it stands. Neither Burn or Hutch are exactly favs of anyone, and given a choice of Burn Hutch Vs Amore Madl who would fans prefer?
-Ohara and Garbutt started this run as first choice players but have been replaced by Ream and basically Tunnicliffe.
Then you have Kaca who has said he leaving and dopped since.
-Gk's swapped places.
-Ince apparently was told not fit enough, had a few weeks off to get better and it worked and first choice since.
What I'm trying to show is that the team he puts out has evolved over last 16 games, players come in and out as any do but there are some real obvious reasons for this.
Saturday was the first time you could say he changed the two CB's when maybe they could havce had another chance. But again both current and future planning came into play.
So you have
McCormack
Dembele
Fredericks
Parker
Cairney
Madl
Amorebieta
Betts/Lonergan
Tunnicliffe
who have been his hardcore team. You can now add Ince to that and possibly LVC since he came back and you have 11 players.
Its not perfect and we can all see where the weaknesses are. Our only hope is he gets the backing to bring in the pacy, quick minded, fit players we need. And not allow some good performances by some players cover over the fact they are not good enough for next season.
and once again you come up with facts, sound analysis, and logic
well done, you
Quote from: Statto on April 25, 2016, 02:11:55 PM
i made a point about team changes in another thread but no one replied, preferring instead to argue about joka's eye contact or dress sense
last seven games, same formation, and same 8 players starting every game they're fit
only rotation has been at full back and swapping hyndman/tunnicliffe
exception is ipswich away when he changed the CBs. but if you look, hutchinson and burn are our two biggest, heaviest CBs so seems obvious to me what Joka was thinking
People don't want facts...didn't you know facts are made up and can not be backed by anything.
Quote from: PokerMatt on April 24, 2016, 06:25:24 PM
Quote from: Statto on April 24, 2016, 06:21:45 PM
Quote from: PokerMatt on April 24, 2016, 06:16:03 PM
Who's Jakonovic and why are we changing manager again?
interesting that there are Two anti "Jakonovic" threads on here at the moment by ostensibly different posters... do i detect a sock puppet?
I noticed this too. It's odd that two very anti-Jokanovic posters both spell it incorrectly the same way.
Might be on to something :hook:
Unfortunately neither of which were involved in the demise of JFK either. :033:
Whereby The other person is a simple wind-up merchant, Baz still hasn't got over Kit not being with us, it's all as simple as that I feel. :54:
Quote from: Baszab on April 24, 2016, 03:30:37 PM
I am not sure what the last observation is based on
When KS was sacked we were P 16 - 5W 5D and 6L - 8 points off 6th place - not a bad position for new squad with a rookie manager - ready to develop as a unit
I think you will find that many of our players have developed a poor attitude since the appointment of the Messiah
I answered this exact point of yours on a different thread. You are clearly intentionally spinning this in a biassed way to back up your agenda. We were on a terrible run when SJ took over, losing and playing badly
I'm really fed up with flogging this dead horse. I see it simply as this..
1. Joka was expected to make a silk purse out of a sows ear
2. We are playing a far better style of football but have a soft underbelly. We can all see it - do you really think he can't ?
3. It is ludicrous to expect him to work miracles until he has his own personell on the pitch
I believe he's the right man for us.Please get off his back and let him get on with te job.
I'll make no further comment on this subject on this or any other thread.
Vincent
Quote from: Baszab on April 24, 2016, 11:52:45 AM
1. He did not "build" a team at Watford - he inherited Udinese B team
2. He has been relegated twice
3. His tenures rarely last more than 18 months
4. He clearly does NOT have the support of the players
5. He is not popular with the "Fulham" staff/players (not necessarily a bad thing)
6. He has made no impact whatsoever
7. He spends the whole game moaning at his "entourage" in the dug-out and criticising his players - He's the one who selects and trains them - He must take the blame
8. He hasn't decided on the best selection or tactics (if there are any ) in over 20 games
Please sack him and get a young enthusiastic manager from lower divisions (a la Adams)
We are in danger of dropping into the Jol syndrome again
My thoughts on this haven't changed since it was obvious he did not have a clue after 3 or 4 games in charge
Why do you continously refer to supporters who like him as "lovers"?. You are not the only person on this forum that has a right to an opinion.
noting your number 7. If they are not doing what he wants them to do, are you saying you just want him to stand there and say nothing.
As for number 8. well we have been saying all season the majority of players are just not good enough, so whoever he picks there are going to be problems.
You just seem to really enjoy it when things go wrong, i don't think i have ever seen a positive post from you about anything, but of course you are entitled to your opinion.
Quote from: MJG on April 25, 2016, 01:24:14 PM
When you look at the changes he has made game to game yes there have been a few. But many are injury led and suspensions. or just fact we played a lot of games and he rotated.
But lets look at some things....(Note I'm not including his first few games in charge and only from Derby onwards once Ince came in, think this is fair given transfer window and 'his' players)
So 16 games
26 players used
-Apart from one sub appearance Ross and Dembele have always started.
-Fredericks has been in and out of the team but made 11 starts and 4 appearances. Right back he has chopped and changed. But Fredericks cant last 90 mins, hes better at Wing Back and clearly with just 3 look ins Richards is a non starter.
Stearman won his place back recently at RB and although hot and cold I can see why RB has been a position thats required changes.
-Parker has played 14 of those games, amazing hes done that well and started them all recently.
-Cairney, well only injuury made him drop out and change required
-Madl, again a starter for most of the time apart from injury.
-Amorebieta missed only 3 of his games, one was enforced and apparently injurys for others.
-Tunnicliffe, once back he was into the team, Sub saturday but always around if required.
-Burn lost his place recently, both him and Hutch played well at Ipswich, but I think saturday may have been a case of they are both leaving, lets work with my two first choice CB's as it stands. Neither Burn or Hutch are exactly favs of anyone, and given a choice of Burn Hutch Vs Amore Madl who would fans prefer?
-Ohara and Garbutt started this run as first choice players but have been replaced by Ream and basically Tunnicliffe.
Then you have Kaca who has said he leaving and dopped since.
-Gk's swapped places.
-Ince apparently was told not fit enough, had a few weeks off to get better and it worked and first choice since.
What I'm trying to show is that the team he puts out has evolved over last 16 games, players come in and out as any do but there are some real obvious reasons for this.
Saturday was the first time you could say he changed the two CB's when maybe they could havce had another chance. But again both current and future planning came into play.
So you have
McCormack
Dembele
Fredericks
Parker
Cairney
Madl
Amorebieta
Betts/Lonergan
Tunnicliffe
who have been his hardcore team. You can now add Ince to that and possibly LVC since he came back and you have 11 players.
Its not perfect and we can all see where the weaknesses are. Our only hope is he gets the backing to bring in the pacy, quick minded, fit players we need. And not allow some good performances by some players cover over the fact they are not good enough for next season.
Many well made points Mike - also as another poster has pointed out Jokanovic is one of a small list of managers who have successfuly won promotionship from the Championship.
One additional, non Jokanovic observation to make however.
All teams in the top 3 of the Championship retained their managers from last season. Brighton & Burnley were brave enough to retain managers from last season despite not being 'not successful.' I appreciate that Dyche was in the Premiership but they stayed loyal to him and Brighton in particular closely mirrored our own lack of success last season. Houghton certainly was not an overnight success but with time he has moulded them into an efficient team as we found out to our cost a few weeks ago.
So despite the poor form (to put it politely) the club's hierarchy would be correct and logical in continuing with Jokanovic.
If you cant see the improvements that Joka has made then you clearly dont want to see them . Good posts above on this last page ,most of which I thorughly agree with .
Khan seems to be 100 per cent behind Jokanovic and this must be the biggest reason to support the man. Money is going to be spent and investment will be made. This is vital for our club and it seems to me that Jokanovic is the right man to get the balance (which was pitifully lacking in our last assembled squad) on track to make us a decent team again.
I am supporting Slavia because Bazab doesn´t like him.
All I can see and hear after attending {each game at home and some away} is everyone around me moaning and despondent at another rubbish performance.
I don't hear people saying " Oh never mind, we have been stuffed again and we nearly went down,......but never mind SJ has got us playing better" - that is just laughable
As for MG's sound and thoughtful analysis which I partly agree with, every manager - even KS - has had injury problems - one of our biggest downfalls of the KS era was the loss of our 2 first team goalies. So no excuses there for poor performances
Quote from: Baszab on April 25, 2016, 07:46:04 PM
All I can see and hear after attending {each game at home and some away} is everyone around me moaning and despondent at another rubbish performance.
I don't hear people saying " Oh never mind, we have been stuffed again and we nearly went down,......but never mind SJ has got us playing better" - that is just laughable
As for MG's sound and thoughtful analysis which I partly agree with, every manager - even KS - has had injury problems - one of our biggest downfalls of the KS era was the loss of our 2 first team goalies. So no excuses there for poor performances
Of course people moan about a performance in the immediate aftermath of a loss. But most other people regain a sense of perspective after they have time to digest and see the bigger picture.
I also notice that you say that's all you hear, which implies you and or the people you listen to are still moaning when we win... That or you choose not to listen to anything positive.
Quote from: Baszab on April 25, 2016, 07:46:04 PM
All I can see and hear after attending {each game at home and some away} is everyone around me moaning and despondent at another rubbish performance.
I don't hear people saying " Oh never mind, we have been stuffed again and we nearly went down,......but never mind SJ has got us playing better" - that is just laughable
As for MG's sound and thoughtful analysis which I partly agree with, every manager - even KS - has had injury problems - one of our biggest downfalls of the KS era was the loss of our 2 first team goalies. So no excuses there for poor performances
I think Id be despondent if i sat near you.
Quote from: Baszab on April 25, 2016, 07:46:04 PM
All I can see and hear after attending {each game at home and some away} is everyone around me moaning and despondent at another rubbish performance.
I don't hear people saying " Oh never mind, we have been stuffed again and we nearly went down,......but never mind SJ has got us playing better" - that is just laughable
As for MG's sound and thoughtful analysis which I partly agree with, every manager - even KS - has had injury problems - one of our biggest downfalls of the KS era was the loss of our 2 first team goalies. So no excuses there for poor performances
So everyone around you is moaning and despondent about yet another rubbish performance? But prior to the home defeat against NF, as I recall, we had gone 6 matches and only lost once (admittedly badly vs Brighton). Hardly a case of "yet another rubbish performance". Not scintillating I grant you, but neither does that form fit your damning but laughably unbalanced statement.
Have a listen to Tony Khans Podcast linked further down the Board (jump to 48 minutes in) and there is a complete summary of the way we are managed from the top. I am afraid that the approach is Moneyball / Statistics. - Identify what look like good cheap players (probably from foreign leagues e.g. Madli) get Rigg to buy them and ask the Coach to make them into a team - no wonder we didn't approach Warburton !
Tony Khan acknowledges that the present coach Joka is not keen on the idea but he will be tolerated as he has a reputation of being such a good coach. No wonder we have problems ! The players don't know who the boss is. There is even a hint that the statistically discovered players should be given a chance to prove themselves in the team !
Joka sounds like he is fighting to get the right players and may get some trust. My worry is that if we sack him we will just get a yes man in. Tony Khan did concede that results here or with the Jags don't look good but he sees this as his professional calling and wants to convince us fans that is the correct way to go. He mentioned the fans opposition several times so at least we are being heard !
Quote from: Finnegans Wake on April 25, 2016, 09:06:24 PM
Quote from: Baszab on April 25, 2016, 07:46:04 PM
All I can see and hear after attending {each game at home and some away} is everyone around me moaning and despondent at another rubbish performance.
I don't hear people saying " Oh never mind, we have been stuffed again and we nearly went down,......but never mind SJ has got us playing better" - that is just laughable
As for MG's sound and thoughtful analysis which I partly agree with, every manager - even KS - has had injury problems - one of our biggest downfalls of the KS era was the loss of our 2 first team goalies. So no excuses there for poor performances
I think Id be despondent if i sat near you.
I'd be bloody suicidal. Thank god for the ignore button when he posts.
I am very confident that Slavisa will mould this club into a competitive unit. He may not have shown it yet but I just sense that he is able to do this.
Besides if Baszab doesn't want him that is a good enough reason to retain this manager
Can I say we should keep him cause he's good looking and cheers me up! Sod the football!
:Haynes The Maestro:
Quote from: Berserker on April 25, 2016, 10:16:45 PM
Can I say we should keep him cause he's good looking and cheers me up! Sod the football!
It is certainly a reason - mind you might not apply for most of us mere males :Haynes The Maestro:
Quote from: colinwhite on April 25, 2016, 06:19:50 PM
If you cant see the improvements that Joka has made then you clearly dont want to see them . Good posts above on this last page ,most of which I thorughly agree with .
Khan seems to be 100 per cent behind Jokanovic and this must be the biggest reason to support the man. Money is going to be spent and investment will be made. This is vital for our club and it seems to me that Jokanovic is the right man to get the balance (which was pitifully lacking in our last assembled squad) on track to make us a decent team again.
I went to Spec Savers today and my vision or opinion hasn't been changed! I admire all the support and eternal optimism that is given by some FFC supporters, some of the comments though are ridiculous "Khan seems to be 100% per cent behind Jokavic", how do you work that out because he hasn't been sacked yet?
I am more or less in total agreement with Basrab, I have no preference as to who our manage should be or should still be, would the SJ supporters please post what he has achieved so far to gain your confidence? I have obviously been following the wrong team this season! To clarify things I was never 1 of the KS supporters!!
Quote from: davew on April 25, 2016, 11:26:13 PM
I am more or less in total agreement with Basrab, I have no preference as to who our manage should be or should still be, would the SJ supporters please post what he has achieved so far to gain your confidence? I have obviously been following the wrong team this season! To clarify things I was never 1 of the KS supporters!!
Apparently this Manager Jok is very good looking.
As for these Stats they are so keen on, no wonder this clubs in a two and eight, on and off the pitch, they should flush these stats down the toilet ASAP.
This stats approach always seems to lead to problems at clubs.
Stats are fine - if used with more traditional ways of choosing players.
Quote from: Baszab on April 25, 2016, 07:46:04 PM
All I can see and hear after attending {each game at home and some away} is everyone around me moaning and despondent at another rubbish performance.
I don't hear people saying " Oh never mind, we have been stuffed again and we nearly went down,......but never mind SJ has got us playing better" - that is just laughable
As for MG's sound and thoughtful analysis which I partly agree with, every manager - even KS - has had injury problems - one of our biggest downfalls of the KS era was the loss of our 2 first team goalies. So no excuses there for poor performances
Loss of the keepers was this season, what about the end of last season what was the reason then? we had a fit squad and still got tanked.
SJ for me deserves a chance like KS did to get his own players in.
Quote from: davew on April 25, 2016, 11:26:13 PM
I am more or less in total agreement with Basrab, I have no preference as to who our manage should be or should still be, would the SJ supporters please post what he has achieved so far to gain your confidence? I have obviously been following the wrong team this season! To clarify things I was never 1 of the KS supporters!!
Dave, with respect it has been posted above, if you don't agree fair enough but please don't ask people to repost what they've said already (mine is on page 3 by the way).
Slavisa is a highly respected Don in the Serbian mafia. He came to London to conquer the mass market drugs trade in the wealthy areas of Fulham and Chelsea. Whilst there, he had a unique persona as a football manager with years of experience. Even travelling from Watford to Israel, just to imprint his name further in the football world.
It is well know that he tests out his products on the players at the clubs he is currently at. Some say that a special grade of cocaine was used throughout early April, but has since had a low supply. Reporters suggest this is why Fulham have had such a drop in form.
Quote from: davew on April 25, 2016, 11:23:13 PM
Quote from: colinwhite on April 25, 2016, 06:19:50 PM
If you cant see the improvements that Joka has made then you clearly dont want to see them . Good posts above on this last page ,most of which I thorughly agree with .
Khan seems to be 100 per cent behind Jokanovic and this must be the biggest reason to support the man. Money is going to be spent and investment will be made. This is vital for our club and it seems to me that Jokanovic is the right man to get the balance (which was pitifully lacking in our last assembled squad) on track to make us a decent team again.
I went to Spec Savers today and my vision or opinion hasn't been changed! I admire all the support and eternal optimism that is given by some FFC supporters, some of the comments though are ridiculous "Khan seems to be 100% per cent behind Jokavic", how do you work that out because he hasn't been sacked yet?
Lets just wait and see shall we Dave. The amount of money he gets to spend will surely reflect the owners backing wouldnt you agree ? Or is that ridiculous in your view too ?
1 - First manager in a while, who isn't afraid to make changes at HT to try and change the game
2 - Believes in playing football the right way, and even though results haven't been great the style of play has been much improved
3 - Tremendously good CV and has stated that he wants to be at the club long-term
4 - Has won the division
5 - If he can get players like Ince/Madl under an embargo what can he do over a full summer to revamp a squad?
6 - Identifies youth as a success, something that always reaps benefits going forward
7 - Doesn't get ahead of himself, even if we win he notes the negatives and always strives for better
8 - Actually a really nice bloke and can deal with the media very well.
P.S - If your judging him on a season where he couldn't challenge/play for anything then you really need to re-evaluate. Give him time to shape something here and then judge at the end of his contract. Anything can be better than Felix Bingo or Kit's reliance on Diamond formations. Yeah the season has been bad, but if you can't see the bigger picture and look forward to this summer, then well I don't understand you.
Quote from: Bronaldinho on April 26, 2016, 11:49:45 AM
1 - First manager in a while, who isn't afraid to make changes at HT to try and change the game
2 - Believes in playing football the right way, and even though results haven't been great the style of play has been much improved
3 - Tremendously good CV and has stated that he wants to be at the club long-term
4 - Has won the division
5 - If he can get players like Ince/Madl under an embargo what can he do over a full summer to revamp a squad?
6 - Identifies youth as a success, something that always reaps benefits going forward
7 - Doesn't get ahead of himself, even if we win he notes the negatives and always strives for better
8 - Actually a really nice bloke and can deal with the media very well.
P.S - If your judging him on a season where he couldn't challenge/play for anything then you really need to re-evaluate. Give him time to shape something here and then judge at the end of his contract. Anything can be better than Felix Bingo or Kit's reliance on Diamond formations. Yeah the season has been bad, but if you can't see the bigger picture and look forward to this summer, then well I don't understand you.
Amen!
I was afraid that Lighthouse and bazab was dead when we won three games in a row. I guess they was so disappointed that they forgot their password on the FOF forum: D
At least bazab is honest, Jako is the problem and he saw it after THREE games. Almost unbelievably stupid: D
I trust Joka and am looking forward to next season.
Quote from: Hoppus on April 26, 2016, 12:16:00 PM
Quote from: Bronaldinho on April 26, 2016, 11:49:45 AM
1 - First manager in a while, who isn't afraid to make changes at HT to try and change the game
2 - Believes in playing football the right way, and even though results haven't been great the style of play has been much improved
3 - Tremendously good CV and has stated that he wants to be at the club long-term
4 - Has won the division
5 - If he can get players like Ince/Madl under an embargo what can he do over a full summer to revamp a squad?
6 - Identifies youth as a success, something that always reaps benefits going forward
7 - Doesn't get ahead of himself, even if we win he notes the negatives and always strives for better
8 - Actually a really nice bloke and can deal with the media very well.
P.S - If your judging him on a season where he couldn't challenge/play for anything then you really need to re-evaluate. Give him time to shape something here and then judge at the end of his contract. Anything can be better than Felix Bingo or Kit's reliance on Diamond formations. Yeah the season has been bad, but if you can't see the bigger picture and look forward to this summer, then well I don't understand you.
Amen!
I was afraid that Lighthouse and bazab was dead when we won three games in a row. I guess they was so disappointed that they forgot their password on the FOF forum: D
At least bazab is honest, Jako is the problem and he saw it after THREE games. Almost unbelievably stupid: D
I trust Joka and am looking forward to next season.
Thanks mate that is the biggest insult I have ever been given on this site even in jest. Accused of wanting the side to lose and not posting when we win because I so want us to do badly. I thank you and so would my family and friends who have supported the club over the years.
Quote from: Bronaldinho on April 26, 2016, 11:49:45 AM
1 - First manager in a while, who isn't afraid to make changes at HT to try and change the game
2 - Believes in playing football the right way, and even though results haven't been great the style of play has been much improved
3 - Tremendously good CV and has stated that he wants to be at the club long-term
4 - Has won the division
5 - If he can get players like Ince/Madl under an embargo what can he do over a full summer to revamp a squad?
6 - Identifies youth as a success, something that always reaps benefits going forward
7 - Doesn't get ahead of himself, even if we win he notes the negatives and always strives for better
8 - Actually a really nice bloke and can deal with the media very well.
No sense re-typing. This sums it up fairly nicely.
I also take issue with the thread title. You make a fair request Baszab but show right away, by using "Jokanovic lovers" in the title, that you'll not be taking anything said seriously. Not all who support his being given a fair chance love Jokanovic. Most, it seems to me, just believe that he should be allowed to bring in players to build a team that can play his way. He's already said time and again that this lot aren't capable of it and he's had simplify the tactics so that they can compete. Think about that for a moment. These are highly paid professionals who, as a group, aren't capable of playing like the better teams in this league. They've proven that time and again this season. He should be judged upon his ability to build a team that can and to succeed with that team.
Quote from: Bronaldinho on April 26, 2016, 11:49:45 AM
1 - First manager in a while, who isn't afraid to make changes at HT to try and change the game
2 - Believes in playing football the right way, and even though results haven't been great the style of play has been much improved
3 - Tremendously good CV and has stated that he wants to be at the club long-term
4 - Has won the division
5 - If he can get players like Ince/Madl under an embargo what can he do over a full summer to revamp a squad?
6 - Identifies youth as a success, something that always reaps benefits going forward
7 - Doesn't get ahead of himself, even if we win he notes the negatives and always strives for better
8 - Actually a really nice bloke and can deal with the media very well.
P.S - If your judging him on a season where he couldn't challenge/play for anything then you really need to re-evaluate. Give him time to shape something here and then judge at the end of his contract. Anything can be better than Felix Bingo or Kit's reliance on Diamond formations. Yeah the season has been bad, but if you can't see the bigger picture and look forward to this summer, then well I don't understand you.
Agree completely and would add the point that dropping him now would be another big serving of management misery. Can't really see another decent option at this point.
Quote from: Lighthouse on April 26, 2016, 01:12:38 PM
Quote from: Hoppus on April 26, 2016, 12:16:00 PM
Quote from: Bronaldinho on April 26, 2016, 11:49:45 AM
1 - First manager in a while, who isn't afraid to make changes at HT to try and change the game
2 - Believes in playing football the right way, and even though results haven't been great the style of play has been much improved
3 - Tremendously good CV and has stated that he wants to be at the club long-term
4 - Has won the division
5 - If he can get players like Ince/Madl under an embargo what can he do over a full summer to revamp a squad?
6 - Identifies youth as a success, something that always reaps benefits going forward
7 - Doesn't get ahead of himself, even if we win he notes the negatives and always strives for better
8 - Actually a really nice bloke and can deal with the media very well.
P.S - If your judging him on a season where he couldn't challenge/play for anything then you really need to re-evaluate. Give him time to shape something here and then judge at the end of his contract. Anything can be better than Felix Bingo or Kit's reliance on Diamond formations. Yeah the season has been bad, but if you can't see the bigger picture and look forward to this summer, then well I don't understand you.
Amen!
I was afraid that Lighthouse and bazab was dead when we won three games in a row. I guess they was so disappointed that they forgot their password on the FOF forum: D
At least bazab is honest, Jako is the problem and he saw it after THREE games. Almost unbelievably stupid: D
I trust Joka and am looking forward to next season.
Thanks mate that is the biggest insult I have ever been given on this site even in jest. Accused of wanting the side to lose and not posting when we win because I so want us to do badly. I thank you and so would my family and friends who have supported the club over the years.
[/
Thank you Lighthouse.
Quote from: J.Perkins on April 26, 2016, 08:25:32 AM
Slavisa is a highly respected Don in the Serbian mafia. He came to London to conquer the mass market drugs trade in the wealthy areas of Fulham and Chelsea. Whilst there, he had a unique persona as a football manager with years of experience. Even travelling from Watford to Israel, just to imprint his name further in the football world.
It is well know that he tests out his products on the players at the clubs he is currently at. Some say that a special grade of cocaine was used throughout early April, but has since had a low supply. Reporters suggest this is why Fulham have had such a drop in form.
So our defenders are more focussed on the lines rather than the ball then ?
The main argument for keeping him is that we can't keep on changing managers every 6 months or less.
After that I'm struggling to think of another reason
