Friends of Fulham

I hate to give stick to my fellow Americans but in this case I have too.  When in comes to roundabouts in the States I think most, not all, just don't don't get it.  When I come across on all I can think about is Chevy Chase in London trying to get out of the roundabout  :doh:  For the record I actually think roundabouts are a good thing.  I just think Americans in general do not know how to drive through them properly.  Roundabout education is very much lacking over here.



So imagine my reaction when it was announced that the local transportation department was going to install two of them at one of the local on and off ramps I use frequently.  Actually I use the overpass cutting across the highway more then I do the actual highway. 

This week my dreaded fears have come true as they have opened the roundabouts.  Even though they are not 100% complete.  As I knew it would getting through the roundabouts is a complete nightmare at rush hour busy times.  People just don't know how to enter or exit them. 

I see cars do one of the following scenarios all the time. 

- Cars will enter the roundabout and come to a complete stop for no reason. 
- Cars will enter the roundabout and come to a stop when they come to another entrance.  Even though it is clearly marked that they have the right away and the other driver has to yield. 
- Cars will just come to the roundabout entrance and just stop.  They will sit there even though there are no other cars in the roundabout. 
- Multiple cars will come to multiple entrances at the same time and just stop.  The drivers all sitting, looking at each other and waiting for someone to do something. 
- The worst though are the idiots who get into the wrong lane on the roundabout and cross over the small barriers separating the various lanes because they realize at the last minute they are in the wrong lane.  I have almost been hit three times this week due to this scenario.   fp.gif

(http://www.sandyspringsga.org/Home/ShowImage?id=2278&t=635850896518030000)

So that is my rant for the month. 

Sorry

In England we have gone crazy with roundabouts and have developed several lethal types including:-

Satellite Roundabouts
Mini Roundabouts
Hot Cross Bun Roundabouts
Banjo Roundabouts

Years ago it was a golden rule that you did not overtake on a roundabout but drivers have become over familiar with roundabouts and drive fast and treat the overtaking rule with contempt making accidents likely.

Mini roundabouts have appeared all over the place and are a real joke as a commercial vehicle of any size just can't navigate them and simply ignore them driving right over the centre.

For a real roundabout experience come to England it is a major tourist experience.

Quote from: filham on September 23, 2016, 10:17:49 PM
In England we have gone crazy with roundabouts and have developed several lethal types including:-

Satellite Roundabouts
Mini Roundabouts
Hot Cross Bun Roundabouts
Banjo Roundabouts

Years ago it was a golden rule that you did not overtake on a roundabout but drivers have become over familiar with roundabouts and drive fast and treat the overtaking rule with contempt making accidents likely.

Mini roundabouts have appeared all over the place and are a real joke as a commercial vehicle of any size just can't navigate them and simply ignore them driving right over the centre.

For a real roundabout experience come to England it is a major tourist experience.

They are a few mini roundabouts in residential areas here.  I had not thought about the larger vehicles going through them.  That is a good point. 

Drove on two different roundabouts just this afternoon.

You're right. They are confusing to Americans. One reason is best summed up from a conversation I had when I was first driving in Britain in 1966. I asked a Bobbie this question: "In Britain which driver has the right of way?" Now obviously this depends on the situation, but it's fairly clear over here who that's going to be.

The Bobbie's response: "There is no statutory right-of-way on our roads." -- pause -- "Although, the auto IN the roundabout has right of way over the auto APPROACHING the roundabout." -- another pause -- "Generally."  :doh:

I loved roundabouts in England, although being transported in the backseat of a mini while drunker than 14 skunks through Stevenage is something I never want to experience again.

Sorry to hear about the difficulties.  There's a fairly well known "magic roundabout" in the east of England, which is five mini roundabouts in a circle.  It's possible to get round it by going either right or left.  I was there the day it opened and traffic was being stopped on the approaches so that drivers could be handed leaflets guiding them on what to do.   They seemed to do the job.

Quote from: Carborundum on September 23, 2016, 10:59:29 PM
Sorry to hear about the difficulties.  There's a fairly well known "magic roundabout" in the east of England, which is five mini roundabouts in a circle.  It's possible to get round it by going either right or left.  I was there the day it opened and traffic was being stopped on the approaches so that drivers could be handed leaflets guiding them on what to do.   They seemed to do the job.

That's Hemel Hempstead (near Stevenage near Luton and MK Dons  :0)  and the one at Swindon
There's some You tube clips

Roundabouts are great. They move traffic much better than traffic lights. Now, if we could just get you lot to drive on the right side of the road it would work much better!!!

As a side note, a city near me (Palmdale, CA) has one, yes only one, roundabout, At this very moment it is closed because a cattle lorry carrying 186 heifers overturned and the authorities are doing their best to round up several years worth of hamburger. Very funny to watch the news coverage. Guess the driver is the reason for this thread.

Quote from: Carborundum on September 23, 2016, 10:59:29 PM
Sorry to hear about the difficulties.  There's a fairly well known "magic roundabout" in the east of England, which is five mini roundabouts in a circle.  It's possible to get round it by going either right or left.  I was there the day it opened and traffic was being stopped on the approaches so that drivers could be handed leaflets guiding them on what to do.   They seemed to do the job.

theres one just like that at Hatton Cross just inside Heathrow airport

I left England in January 1969 and returned from Vietnam in the Spring of 1971. I'm back in the country for about two weeks and I decide to drive from Luton the Bedford via Hitchin. So, I'm zipping down the A505 approaching Henlow Camp and I discover that just short of The Airman they've changed an intersection to a roundabout. I was doing about 55 when I saw the change ... just in time. ... barely .

Scary, but there ya go.

Thanks for this thread, Don

Quote from: HatterDon on September 24, 2016, 03:28:25 AM
I left England in January 1969 and returned from Vietnam in the Spring of 1971. I'm back in the country for about two weeks and I decide to drive from Luton the Bedford via Hitchin. So, I'm zipping down the A505 approaching Henlow Camp and I discover that just short of The Airman they've changed an intersection to a roundabout. I was doing about 55 when I saw the change ... just in time. ... barely .

Scary, but there ya go.

Thanks for this thread, Don

That's my other fear.  The roundabouts are so new and there has been no education about them that some fool is going to drive 100 mph through the damn things and kill someone. 

I hadn't realised that they didn't have roundabouts in the USA until an American visitor said how hard she found them when travelling from London to Cornwall (via Bracknell - ok,not the best place to have to practice on your first day!).

But surely they're better than traffic lights that might stop you for no reason at all in light traffic - or a straight crossroads where one road has right of way and queues can build up on the other because people can't get out.

I'm for roundabouts every day, they keep the traffic moving. I wonder if it's just a question of going round them the right way? It must feel strange doing it in reverse - surely clockwise (derived from the direction of the sun itself) is more natural. Perhaps it's a function of driving on the "other" side of the road (and having to go round against human instinct) that just makes it hard to adapt.

The worst roundabout I've encountered is the concentric one in Colchester.

Roundabouts work great.Theres a mega one at Rose Hill in Sutton Surrey and it also is governed by traffic lights.However, when the traffic lights were out of order for some maintenance on the roundabout the traffic was reduced greatly compared to when the traffic lights are working.Its funny really in a round-abouts sorta way. :doh:

Yes, traffic lights on roundabouts does seem to be rather a contradiction. I thought they were all at peak times only, is this one all the time?

Quote from: HatterDon on September 23, 2016, 10:45:11 PM
Drove on two different roundabouts just this afternoon.

You're right. They are confusing to Americans. One reason is best summed up from a conversation I had when I was first driving in Britain in 1966. I asked a Bobbie this question: "In Britain which driver has the right of way?" Now obviously this depends on the situation, but it's fairly clear over here who that's going to be.

The Bobbie's response: "There is no statutory right-of-way on our roads." -- pause -- "Although, the auto IN the roundabout has right of way over the auto APPROACHING the roundabout." -- another pause -- "Generally."  :doh:

Yes I remember the British no statutory right-of-way. I moved to Italy in 1974 and had to start giving way to the right even on roundabouts (i.e. to those coming on to the roundabout). Then they changed the rule in France so that you give way to the right, except on roundabouts, and then they changed the rule in Italy but, unfortunately, not on ALL roundabouts!!! Now on almost all roundabouts you give way to who is on the roundabout.

You should visit Milton Keynes. They have a Roundabout for every day of the year! If you want practice, that's the place to go. I think the idea is to make it harder for people to leave! Think of it was Portmeirion for the modern era.

Quote from: Holders on September 24, 2016, 06:50:04 AM

The worst roundabout I've encountered is the concentric one in Colchester.

That's the one.  If you know the deal, it's generally fine.  Strictly, if everyone on the roundabout at the same time as you knows the deal, it's always fine.  I quite liked it because pretty much everyone who uses it is a local and knew the deal.  Gave me a sense that nothing the road systems of the world could throw at me would phase me.  Realised I was wrong about that within a minute of stepping outside an Indian airport.

Yes.This one in Rose Hill has 24 - 7 traffic lights and its jam packed in rush hour.Total nightmare.

Here in Spain they went mad building them about 10 years ago. Trouble is they have not taught the Spanish how to drive round them. To a Spanish driver the indicator stalk is only for hanging their Rosary beads on.

As we know in England you always give way at roundabouts to cars from the right. At mini roundabouts, if three of the entrances to said mini roundabout are approached, we all sit for ages waiting for the first car one to move. Bikes have no such rule and need not stop for anything.

Many years ago,when I was at college, I went to visit a friend in Kidderminster. They had replaced a large roundabout with a series of mini roundabouts placed in a circular shape. There were instructions on how to navigate them on lamposts as you approached. My friend who was driving stopped at the first mini roundabout and I asked him how it worked. He said he had no idea but the locals had there own set of rules. It was quite simple. You looked at which exit you required, waited for the traffic to clear and just went for it ignoring the other mini roundabouts. Needless to say it isn't there anymore!

Quote from: bobbo on September 24, 2016, 02:02:41 AM

Quote from: Carborundum on September 23, 2016, 10:59:29 PM
Sorry to hear about the difficulties.  There's a fairly well known "magic roundabout" in the east of England, which is five mini roundabouts in a circle.  It's possible to get round it by going either right or left.  I was there the day it opened and traffic was being stopped on the approaches so that drivers could be handed leaflets guiding them on what to do.   They seemed to do the job.

theres one just like that at Hatton Cross just inside Heathrow airport

Having used both the Heathrow and Hemel roundabouts I can assure you that the Magic Roundabout at Hemel is the real thing. The Heathrow roundabout is a tame version designed to give newly arrived foreign visitors half a chance of an accident free holiday.

The beauty of traffic lights in the US is that in most places you can turn right on red (with caution !)

A link to the Carmel, Indiana traffic site, they have 94 roundabouts.
It's also a comprehensive guide on how to navigate them and everything you need to know.
http://www.carmel.in.gov/index.aspx?page=123 (http://www.carmel.in.gov/index.aspx?page=123)

Perhaps Scott Parker thinks the centre circle is a roundabout.

God post. In a town near me, Hudson Massachusetts, there is one roundabout which gets really jammed up every day. The thing is, there must be hundreds of locals using it every day for many years and they still dont get it. I always try to avoid it and take a slightly longer way. It is also complicated by the fact there are 3 pedestrian crossings right on it. Also, 2 of the crossings are attached to the roundabout so you cross one, then cross the roundabout to get on the other and complete your journey hoping nobody is on the mobile phone as you cross. 090.gif

That must be the problem. There's no roundabouts here (that I know of) which have pedestrian crossings on them. Maybe 100 yards back on the approach roads. Anything else would interfere with traffic flow.

I still venture to suggest that the difficulty has something to do with going round them the unnatural way.

Quote from: jarv on September 29, 2016, 12:48:32 PM
God post. In a town near me, Hudson Massachusetts, there is one roundabout which gets really jammed up every day. The thing is, there must be hundreds of locals using it every day for many years and they still dont get it. I always try to avoid it and take a slightly longer way. It is also complicated by the fact there are 3 pedestrian crossings right on it. Also, 2 of the crossings are attached to the roundabout so you cross one, then cross the roundabout to get on the other and complete your journey hoping nobody is on the mobile phone as you cross. 090.gif

Same with the Acton (US)/Concord "rotary" on Route 2 - if everyone knew how to use it better, it would work better. It only takes one rotten egg to ruin the whole process.

I have found people in UK manage roundabouts better than in the US where they are common, like Boston and New England, but I think you have to consider the source; there are few in the world worse than US drivers. I have found in my experience drivers in the UK far superior to those in the US, though less aggressive.

Try cycling round a roundabout.
Traffic speeding  towards you from all directions, it's a matter of  putting your arm out to signal direction, while trying to swivel your head 90 degrees and hoping.

Cycling lanes usually run out when they get to them- if there is a lane.

I'd love to see them try this one!

(https://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Screen-Shot-2016-08-02-at-4.35.47-PM-3-1200x630.jpg)

I remember driving in America back in March and I saw THIS was how Americans need roundabouts explained to them. Nearly wet myself with laughter

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cth1znDW8AAs-fC.jpg)

Quote from: rogerpinvirginia on September 23, 2016, 11:45:22 PM

Quote from: Carborundum on September 23, 2016, 10:59:29 PM
Sorry to hear about the difficulties.  There's a fairly well known "magic roundabout" in the east of England, which is five mini roundabouts in a circle.  It's possible to get round it by going either right or left.  I was there the day it opened and traffic was being stopped on the approaches so that drivers could be handed leaflets guiding them on what to do.   They seemed to do the job.

That's Hemel Hempstead (near Stevenage near Luton and MK Dons  :0)  and the one at Swindon
There's some You tube clips

Here ya go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3DcChXNyYQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3DcChXNyYQ)

ooer, perhaps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8ClwohD4Ug (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8ClwohD4Ug)

.. and finally, the best one of all ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Tdu4uKSZ3M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Tdu4uKSZ3M)

Has any one else heard that in view of the failure of American citizens to nominate competentcandidates for President of the USA notice is to be given by the British Crown to revoke the treaty of indepence. Britain is again to become the ruling power.
With immediate effect several rules are to be introduced including the replacements of intersections with roundabouts and they will have to drive on the left. Also America will convert to the metric system of units roundabouts and metrication will help Americans to understand the British sense of humour.

Other legislation will include:-
1.The letter "U"will be reinstated in words such as colour, favour,and labour and Americans will be expected to use pure English vocabulary.
2.Americans will be expected to resolve personal issues without using guns, lawyers and therapists.
Guns will be permitted only for shooting grouse.
3.Uk prices will be adopted for petrol (the word gas will not be used) , about $10 per US gallon.

4. The cold tasteless drink presently refered to as beer will be withdrawn and replaced with good proper English Bitter served at room temprature.

5.A Revenue agent will be sent to the White House to t ensure the acquisition of all monies due to the British Crown are collected, backdated to 1776.

6. Tea time will be introduced to take place at 4pm with proper cups and saucers and quality biscuits. Courses will be available in tea making.

Numerous other improvements will follow slowly.

Quote from: Logicalman on September 30, 2016, 05:25:11 PM

Quote from: rogerpinvirginia on September 23, 2016, 11:45:22 PM

Quote from: Carborundum on September 23, 2016, 10:59:29 PM
Sorry to hear about the difficulties.  There's a fairly well known "magic roundabout" in the east of England, which is five mini roundabouts in a circle.  It's possible to get round it by going either right or left.  I was there the day it opened and traffic was being stopped on the approaches so that drivers could be handed leaflets guiding them on what to do.   They seemed to do the job.

That's Hemel Hempstead (near Stevenage near Luton and MK Dons  :0)  and the one at Swindon
There's some You tube clips

There is no way I could do the Swindon Magic Roundabout.  :dft011:  And Yes  :HD:  the last one is the best one.  Love the YES. 

Quote from: Lighthouse on September 24, 2016, 10:35:04 AM
As we know in England you always give way at roundabouts to cars from the right. At mini roundabouts, if three of the entrances to said mini roundabout are approached, we all sit for ages waiting for the first car one to move. Bikes have no such rule and need not stop for anything.

There is a particular mini roundabout near my home where I have this experience regularly. The big risk is that all having waited for the person on our right to move we all then decide to move at the same moment.

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on October 01, 2016, 12:08:59 AM
I am just glad I kept my Horse and Cart.

I just hope you carry a little blue plastic bag to enable you to clear up the mess dropped in the road.

Quote from: filham on September 30, 2016, 06:54:46 PM
Has any one else heard that in view of the failure of American citizens to nominate competentcandidates for President of the USA notice is to be given by the British Crown to revoke the treaty of indepence. Britain is again to become the ruling power.
With immediate effect several rules are to be introduced including the replacements of intersections with roundabouts and they will have to drive on the left. Also America will convert to the metric system of units roundabouts and metrication will help Americans to understand the British sense of humour.

Other legislation will include:-
1.The letter "U"will be reinstated in words such as colour, favour,and labour and Americans will be expected to use pure English vocabulary.
2.Americans will be expected to resolve personal issues without using guns, lawyers and therapists.
Guns will be permitted only for shooting grouse.
3.Uk prices will be adopted for petrol (the word gas will not be used) , about $10 per US gallon.

4. The cold tasteless drink presently refered to as beer will be withdrawn and replaced with good proper English Bitter served at room temprature.

5.A Revenue agent will be sent to the White House to t ensure the acquisition of all monies due to the British Crown are collected, backdated to 1776.

6. Tea time will be introduced to take place at 4pm with proper cups and saucers and quality biscuits. Courses will be available in tea making.

Numerous other improvements will follow slowly.

Love this