Martin cannot go without FFC's permission so what is better for the club?
I say Fine him, Suspend him for 4 games for misconduct and report Derby County to the FA and attempt to get compensation
Keep him at Fulham and warn him that any further attempt to disrupt the team will result in further fines and if he attempts to play to go he will be reported to the FA for his conduct.
That way he will not be available until after the end of January anyway. Everyone will then know where they stand.
Knowing money talks though I would allow Derby to take him back as long as they paid us an enormous amount of compensation and honoured any suspension we gave him
Attempt to hold clear the air talks with him to see if his attitude has changed.If not back him to Derby , get a refund and move on to another target.We cannot let this fester as it would be disruptive to a team that is beginning to flourish.Me personally if I were Slav would have jogged him on when this first surfaced but I begrudgingly believe in giving him a second chance as he can help us.
Get him out, or get to the reasons behind it all - play him if he is staying and agrees to play, but obviously he needs to give his all.
Doesn't seem like Slavisa will do this - but he may for the good of the club.
In truth, none of know the full story, so it's hard to make a comment, only that this is a terrible situation, and what acceptable excuse can a player have for refusing to play?
Report Derby for what? Speaking to their own player?
I agree with you but the PFA are so powerful these days you could not do what you say sadly. But we could fine him 2 weeks salary, however he says he isn't fit, while the medical team say he is. It's he say she say and very hard to prove as he will say I've got this injury and it will be so obscure that it would be hard to prove.
I suspect he wilfall into line if the club continue to lay hard ball, and good on FFC for doing so
Twice now Slavisa has stated very clearly that Martin is not going back in January. If Martin does go back now rather than at the end of the season (my preference) then either Slavisa will need to explain why he has changed his mind or the club will have to come up with a very good reason as to why they are not backing their manager.
Slav's game of hardball (a peculiarily inappropriate reference to grown-up baseball versus softball) with Martin for just not playing cricket is the correct tactical plan. In addition, Slav and the Chair should hold Derby's feet to the fire in the press for interference with a contractual agreement that is bringing the sport into disrepute.
In the meantime, the club will no doubt already have a good cop (Ali Mac?) to counter Slav's bad cop (another gratuitously bad metaphor) whose task should be to say little but keep the negotiations alive as long as possible through January whilst Martin is kept as far from the action at the club as possible. Perhaps he should be forced to sit for therapy for a month since he thinks he is injured.
At the end of the month, Martin should definitely go back and we should pocket as much savings and even compensation from the deal as possible.
Nogood "it's a deal, see" Boyo
Mo would have sued Derby for something like 'contractual tampering"
Surely under the terms of the deal Martin is a Fulham player at the moment
Ice bath therapy several times a day until any injury improves might prove effective.
As much as mclaren shouldn't have probably made his views clear in the media and Martin 100% shouldn't have downed tools there is room in the loan for all three parties agreeing on a return to derby. Derby are then not doing anything wrong in saying they want him back. Offering an improved contract is underhanded but I'm guessing not against the rules. While it all stinks and I think it's a disgrace, I can't see any legal case.
Quote from: Statto on January 03, 2017, 11:25:32 PM
Quote from: rogerpinvirginia on January 03, 2017, 11:00:20 PM
Mo would have sued Derby for something like 'contractual tampering"
Surely under the terms of the deal Martin is a Fulham player at the moment
i was thinking about this as well today, i don't think anything derby have done amounts to tapping up or any other breach of the football rulebooks, but i'm sure you could find some archaic principle of contract law they've breached. you'd probably lose the case but as you say mo would take them to court anyway, on principle. legend!
Over here in Trumpland, there is a law that is very relevant to this case. It's called tortious interference. Of course, I'm over here. Martin and McLaren are over there. But, I'll bet you a pound of poppadoms that Shak has asked Ali Mac if we would have a case. It will be interesting to see which way this plays out. For once, right is very much on our side.
Nogood "right is might, right" Boyo
Refusing to play is disgusting. Let Martin rot away, training on his own until the loans up, possibly put him on gardening leave. He has disrespected the club and should not allowed to pull on a fulham shirt ever again. Sending him back to Derby will strengthen them for the run in.
The only way he should be allowed the chance to play for us again would be following a public apology to the fans and to Jokanovic, and even then I'd be sceptical as his attitude has been awful from day 1 and having him around the first team could have a negative impact on morale.
Quote from: Chutney on January 04, 2017, 08:10:47 AM
Refusing to play is disgusting. Let Martin rot away, training on his own until the loans up, possibly put him on gardening leave. He has disrespected the club and should not allowed to pull on a fulham shirt ever again. Sending him back to Derby will strengthen them for the run in.
The only way he should be allowed the chance to play for us again would be following a public apology to the fans and to Jokanovic, and even then I'd be sceptical as his attitude has been awful from day 1 and having him around the first team could have a negative impact on morale.
I agree with first part but not second. No way back for me.
Flush out what the problem is and see if it's resolvable, though it is hard to see how his team-mates and fans could be reconciled unless a very valid reason. Otherwise hold him to his contract duration but not pay him as long as he stays on strike.
Hes not even 'on strike', he has an injury which the medical team cant find and they say hes fit and he says he isn't.
Scumbag. Haven't been this angry about a player since Mark Cooper.
If he says he is injured or in any way unfit to play, just say OK, come back when you are ready but keep away from the training ground while we are training until you are ready to resume.
If he says he doesn't want to play for us, threaten to cancel his contract as he is in breach of it but retain his registration until the end of the contract. Been done before but I don't think with a loan player. By the time all the legal wheels have turned with appeals etc it would probably be the end of the season anyway.
Despite the whole sorry saga of downing tools being mentioned in the media the only quotes are from SJ who as we know has challenged the hierarchy before. There has been no formal statement made and if I were Derby And I was losing momentum, again, And I saw Martin as the messiah I would want him back sharpish. Unless all the money we have paid out is being sorted below stairs this sorry saga may yet have another twist. The FA cup weekend allows for some respite but after that it's full on and I would think both Clubs would want answers by next Monday.
If only Magath was still here. After a week of being slathered with Dairylea triangles and month old Camembert, Chris Martin's mysterious injury would be cured and he'd be begging to be put out on the pitch in a Fulham shirt again.
It's all about good management.
Quote from: MJG on January 04, 2017, 08:27:53 AM
Hes not even 'on strike', he has an injury which the medical team cant find and they say hes fit and he says he isn't.
Scumbag. Haven't been this angry about a player since Mark Cooper.
Same here and I was all for him coming to us.
I would actually send him back,I can see this causing unrest within the camp.
Not all Derby fans and players as well I should think are happy with his conduct,and if he were to go back there now it might be a good thing causing disruption in their camp.
Quote from: MJG on January 04, 2017, 08:27:53 AM
Hes not even 'on strike', he has an injury which the medical team cant find and they say hes fit and he says he isn't.
Scumbag. Haven't been this angry about a player since Mark Cooper.
That's the first I've heard that he was feigning injury. I presume, then, that's what SJ meant by "stopped in training", I hadn't interpreted it that way.
Quote from: Holders on January 04, 2017, 09:52:25 AM
Quote from: MJG on January 04, 2017, 08:27:53 AM
Hes not even 'on strike', he has an injury which the medical team cant find and they say hes fit and he says he isn't.
Scumbag. Haven't been this angry about a player since Mark Cooper.
That's the first I've heard that he was feigning injury. I presume, then, that's what SJ meant by "stopped in training", I hadn't interpreted it that way.
SJ says in in his post match press video
Quote from: MJG on January 04, 2017, 09:56:46 AM
Quote from: Holders on January 04, 2017, 09:52:25 AM
Quote from: MJG on January 04, 2017, 08:27:53 AM
Hes not even 'on strike', he has an injury which the medical team cant find and they say hes fit and he says he isn't.
Scumbag. Haven't been this angry about a player since Mark Cooper.
That's the first I've heard that he was feigning injury. I presume, then, that's what SJ meant by "stopped in training", I hadn't interpreted it that way.
SJ says in in his post match press video
Quote from: MJG on January 04, 2017, 09:56:46 AM
Quote from: Holders on January 04, 2017, 09:52:25 AM
Quote from: MJG on January 04, 2017, 08:27:53 AM
Hes not even 'on strike', he has an injury which the medical team cant find and they say hes fit and he says he isn't.
Scumbag. Haven't been this angry about a player since Mark Cooper.
That's the first I've heard that he was feigning injury. I presume, then, that's what SJ meant by "stopped in training", I hadn't interpreted it that way.
SJ says in in his post match press video
Thanks, I'd only read the written report I'll check that. Post-match Reading or Brighton?
Quote from: Holders on January 04, 2017, 10:00:49 AM
Quote from: MJG on January 04, 2017, 09:56:46 AM
Quote from: Holders on January 04, 2017, 09:52:25 AM
Quote from: MJG on January 04, 2017, 08:27:53 AM
Hes not even 'on strike', he has an injury which the medical team cant find and they say hes fit and he says he isn't.
Scumbag. Haven't been this angry about a player since Mark Cooper.
That's the first I've heard that he was feigning injury. I presume, then, that's what SJ meant by "stopped in training", I hadn't interpreted it that way.
SJ says in in his post match press video
Quote from: MJG on January 04, 2017, 09:56:46 AM
Quote from: Holders on January 04, 2017, 09:52:25 AM
Quote from: MJG on January 04, 2017, 08:27:53 AM
Hes not even 'on strike', he has an injury which the medical team cant find and they say hes fit and he says he isn't.
Scumbag. Haven't been this angry about a player since Mark Cooper.
That's the first I've heard that he was feigning injury. I presume, then, that's what SJ meant by "stopped in training", I hadn't interpreted it that way.
SJ says in in his post match press video
Thanks, I'd only read the written report I'll check that. Post-match Reading or Brighton?
Brighton ...behind the pay wall
Very difficult for Slav as he's already had Ross play this trick on him. He can't be seen to be letting players come and go as they please regardless of contracts.
I have a feeling Slav made it clear to the board he wants to buy him and they either haven't been forthcoming to get the deal done in this window or are not offering a very good package. Derby have got wind of this and offered more. Of course the player looks after number one so a return means more money.
The only way I see it being fixed is if we offer a good permanent deal to him now. I'm sure he'd soon enough come out with a "I like playing here. I always wanted to get the deal done" type quote. A goal in the next game and all is forgotten, footballers are as fickle as the fans. Question is, should we break the bank on this one? For me the answer is yes as he'd become integral to our excellent football of late. I can't think of another striker who is available who'd do the job as well. Like with Zamora at his best it's not just about the goals with Martin.
Quote from: Horsfield_No9 on January 04, 2017, 10:05:50 AM
Very difficult for Slav as he's already had Ross play this trick on him. He can't be seen to be letting players come and go as they please regardless of contracts.
I have a feeling Slav made it clear to the board he wants to buy him and they either haven't been forthcoming to get the deal done in this window or are not offering a very good package. Derby have got wind of this and offered more. Of course the player looks after number one so a return means more money.
The only way I see it being fixed is if we offer a good permanent deal to him now. I'm sure he'd soon enough come out with a "I like playing here. I always wanted to get the deal done" type quote. A goal in the next game and all is forgotten, footballers are as fickle as the fans. Question is, should we break the bank on this one? For me the answer is yes as he'd become integral to our excellent football of late. I can't think of another striker who is available who'd do the job as well. Like with Zamora at his best it's not just about the goals with Martin.
We can't forgive him that easily after his behaviour. Accept nothing less than a public apology and a promise to give 100%.
Quote from: Chutney on January 04, 2017, 10:26:59 AM
Quote from: Horsfield_No9 on January 04, 2017, 10:05:50 AM
Very difficult for Slav as he's already had Ross play this trick on him. He can't be seen to be letting players come and go as they please regardless of contracts.
I have a feeling Slav made it clear to the board he wants to buy him and they either haven't been forthcoming to get the deal done in this window or are not offering a very good package. Derby have got wind of this and offered more. Of course the player looks after number one so a return means more money.
The only way I see it being fixed is if we offer a good permanent deal to him now. I'm sure he'd soon enough come out with a "I like playing here. I always wanted to get the deal done" type quote. A goal in the next game and all is forgotten, footballers are as fickle as the fans. Question is, should we break the bank on this one? For me the answer is yes as he'd become integral to our excellent football of late. I can't think of another striker who is available who'd do the job as well. Like with Zamora at his best it's not just about the goals with Martin.
We can't forgive him that easily after his behaviour. Accept nothing less than a public apology and a promise to give 100%.
What we've seen in the past with this situation is that a player gets away with it by being rewarded a big new deal. Worked for Ross and remember when Dunk was due to sign for us only the next day to sign a new bumper deal at Brighton. Damn annoying that players get away with it and are even rewarded. We certainly won't see any apology from Martin in my opinion. He'll sign a perm deal with us or he'll be back there.
The key is for Fulham to put the Martin situation to one side by exercising their duty of care to him by getting expert independent medical opinion (perhaps in concert with Derby). In the meantime the Club pursues transfer activity to strengthen the squad as we hoped would happen anyway. There is no need to pander to Martin other than to identify his problem even if it is only in his head. Martin is a distraction for all concerned only if we allow the guy to dominate proceedings. I'll say this once and once only. Martin is no big deal. He is a competent Championship striker but I don't believe he has played one single game for Fulham at 100% and that has been my feeling all along ever since he arrived. The Club can do better but the last thing we do is pander to him or to Derby.
Without doubt we now want him out, there just can't be room for a bad egg like Martin anywhere near our players.
Squeeze Martin and Derby hard and quickly so that we come out of the matter well financially and are able to use the extra money in this window on a replacement and one that wants to play for Fulham.
There must be no second chance for Martin, we can't have players showing complete disrespect to the club in this way.
Quote from: filham on January 04, 2017, 11:42:37 AM
Without doubt we now want him out, there just can't be room for a bad egg like Martin anywhere near our players.
Squeeze Martin and Derby hard and quickly so that we come out of the matter well financially and are able to use the extra money in this window on a replacement and one that wants to play for Fulham.
There must be no second chance for Martin, we can't have players showing complete disrespect to the club in this way.
:plus one: f()ck him and f()ck Derby and Shteeve.
certainly I think Steve McClaren should be reported for unsettling the player. He can't play for the team again, and we can't send him back to Derby and allow them to play him.
The only answer is to make him sit out the rest of the season with Derby coughing up his reported £20k per week in wages.
