the chattering classes seem to love piazon and big up martin
to me these two are no more than averagish squad players. i think piazon is either massively played out of position or doesn't really deserve to be starting.
martin is also not the right man to lead our line. i know he scored today, but really he caused them no genuine problems, he was very ineffective.
finally i thought qpr got their tactics spot on and played better than us as a result. I think the game cried out for parker. whilst generally i think the team plays brilliantly and the midfield three dominate, today the physicality of the qpr team needed to be countered by the cunning of the old fellow.
a point was lucky, and barely deserved, if martin would have scored early we willnever know how qpr might have reacted.
the transfer window is still open and it was clear we need to strengthen.
I didn't think the Chattering Classes even acknowledged the existence of football, never mind deigning to comment on two players on a second tier club.
Live and loin I guess.
Agree with Piazon. He flatters to deceive. Has nice touches and works hard but overall he is ineffective and a bit of a pointless player.
I think he's good to have in the squad but not to play as much as he has. An all rounder whos average at everything.
Martin scores goals and leads the line. Maybe not today but last week he was superb. The service today was poor but he still nicked a goal.
We need 3 players. A winger, striker and cover for Mcdonald.
Piazon would be on the bench if ayite was here so as a back up he is ok. And wasn't a fan of Martin before, he joined and certainly wouldnt play him after what he done if I was in charge. But as it stands he is the best of our options upfront
Who are these "chattering classes" exactly?
Fairly silent at the moment.
A point was lucky you say,I wouldn't go that far,we had over 70% possession more chances than them,so not to get anything from the game would have been unfair IMO.Agree about Piazon.
Think him and Some will be benched after window.
Well as you say nose we all have our opinions and whilst I agree about piazon yesterday to say that Martin was ineffective ,and that Scott Parker would have made a difference in that game and that they deserved to win , definitely doesnt get me nodding in agreement. No disrespect meant but were we watching the same game ?
Ok, re Martin, what type of striker should lead the line in the formation and style we are playing?
I have my own ideas on his role and how it works but would be interested in what you think a striker in that position under jokanovic should be doing.
With Piazon I have never been fully sold and when £4m figure was mentioned other week I said that was probably 1.5m too much.
He reminds me in some ways of Radzinski. Not in style but work rate. Runs around a lot, works bloody hard with the odd flashes of skill. But lightweight.
Martin has to play at one hundred percent to be effective and I honestly don't think we have seen him do this since the loan deal. He surely has another twenty percent or so to give because he isn't sharp enough for my money. The flick for the goal aside he spent too much time drawn into the physical side of the play when he could have joined in with the attempts to open up the defence by using their tactics against them. For my money he is playing for Chgris Martin and not for Fulham and I have felt that all season. I really hope I am wrong and we actually see much more wholehearted performances from him but his penalty was not struck with the venom present in the one he took against Barnsley.
I like Martin but the argument against signing Ross because he is unfit and out of shape baffles me when Martin looks exactly the same.
He's showed he has quality but he looks like he could lose a stone.
Piazon's game isn't exactly suited to physical sides like QPR and yet he got stuck in, made some telling contributions, and never complained. I thought Fulham's main problem was the wide men not getting to the goal line for the cut backs as they have done recently and that was down to the pressure play of the opponents. I felt Cairney should have encouraged more shooting from range just to vary play and keep QPR guessing. However, I was not disheartened overall.
One of the main problems yesterday was that the standard of the playing surface wasn't compatible with the way we wanted to play . Jokanovic more or less acknowledged as much by bringing on smith at the end.
Piazon has been good of late but gave the ball away far to many times with silly flicks yesterday , on that pitch the short quick passing didn't work which suited them down to the ground for roughing us up and trying to play on the break.
Martin for me is not perfect but held the ball up well and was one of he players along with Aluko who gave us a threat . Our midfield trio found it hard to make accurate forward passes at pace, and they forced us to play inside.
Wewre still by far the better side and the gulf in class was almost embarrassing at times . I know which style of play I would rather watch.
Thought Martin was rubbish yesterday, and got out of jail with a 2 yard toe poke.
Imo
These are some of the best replies to one of my op in ages and i thank you (honest)
It was late when i typed so that has to be considered. I used the term chattering class because it seemed to me, apparently incorrectly, everyone was loving piazon., a kind of group consesus. Regarding martin i see opinion is a bit divided...IMO we need somebody physically much quicker and has more prescence. Ross used to really organise the players close to him and i think that is what we need. I happen to think martin style rather than ability is at issue.
Regarding dominating possesion, that is irrelevant, their goalkeeper was rarely tested in a meaningful way and we were rushed and uncomfortable the whole match. Not a good day at the office BUT we got adraw s o i wa s happy enough with the outcome.
Quote from: nose on January 21, 2017, 11:51:04 PM
the chattering classes seem to love piazon and big up martin
to me these two are no more than averagish squad players. i think piazon is either massively played out of position or doesn't really deserve to be starting.
martin is also not the right man to lead our line. i know he scored today, but really he caused them no genuine problems, he was very ineffective.
finally i thought qpr got their tactics spot on and played better than us as a result. I think the game cried out for parker. whilst generally i think the team plays brilliantly and the midfield three dominate, today the physicality of the qpr team needed to be countered by the cunning of the old fellow.
a point was lucky, and barely deserved, if martin would have scored early we willnever know how qpr might have reacted.
the transfer window is still open and it was clear we need to strengthen.
Some fair points being made and I while Piazon is a good player gets out muscled too easily in a physical match. This is all really QPR offered, close us down quickly, which led to their goal and clatter in to us right from the start. We will not match them for the physical stuff and the only way we were going to bet them is by unpicking their defence, not sure Scotty is the answer when we are pushing for a goal. We will be better when Ayite returns but need to spend some cash in this window. Just to add thought Martin was Ok yesterday, he is quite skilful and gets involved.
If I was a QPR fan I would be glad for the point and the way they played but know they are not good enough.
I thought Martin was good yesterday --- Not really a fan.
I thought Piazon had his worst game for us - Am a big fan.
Fredericks also had his worst game for us since he's come back from injury.
Hopefully just a blip for those two.
Quote from: @jolslover on January 22, 2017, 11:45:03 AM
I thought Martin was good yesterday --- Not really a fan.
I thought Piazon had his worst game for us - Am a big fan.
Fredericks also had his worst game for us since he's come back from injury.
Hopefully just a blip for those two.
i thought QPR go their tactics right and we didn't adapt. they rushed us and were a little bit physical especially on cairney anywhere near the half way line and in fact if the ref had have been a bit brighter he would have booked more of their players. as it was I thought cairney was extremely lucky in todays environment not to be sent off.
martin had one blistering run down the left wing and showed what he can really do, plus the goal, but for me he is far too anonymous too often. other than those two things he never troubled their back line and far too often makes no effort to get near post when crosses are coming in, not that pur crossing is that reliable.
fredricks? what a stinker yesterday, good call to be taken off at HT!
As Alf Ramsay said about Jimmy Greaves once "apart from his two goals he did absolutely nothing " - I thought Martin did OK yesterday - however, unusually, I agree with most of your OP
Going a goal down, missing a penalty, opposition stifling our game, some of our own having an off day but still fighting back and taking a point away from home in a local derby whilst not being the result everybody wanted, shows something within the team and Club is working.
Wasn't that long ago when taking a point away from home was usually followed by calls for a public holiday and an open top bus parade down the Fulham road.
Quote from: Baszab on January 22, 2017, 12:15:20 PM
As Alf Ramsay said about Jimmy Greaves once "apart from his two goals he did absolutely nothing " - I thought Martin did OK yesterday - however, unusually, I agree with most of your OP
Greaves was a genius finisher who defenders had to watch like a hawk
Our center forward IMO causes minimal concern to opposition central defenders... if he meaning martin, had more prescence, like zamora, then the quote would be appropriate. As it is i am grateful for your vote of confidence and we shall see what we shall see regarding new imports this window... none or last minute panic stuff would be a disastour.
Quote from: stevehawkinslidingtackle on January 22, 2017, 10:56:41 AM
Thought Martin was rubbish yesterday, and got out of jail with a 2 yard toe poke.
Disagree with the word rubbish, did not have his best game, but hardly rubbish, and was not a 2 yard toe poke as he was facing away from goal, it was a nice little deft touch.
Quote from: alfie on January 22, 2017, 03:09:26 PM
Quote from: stevehawkinslidingtackle on January 22, 2017, 10:56:41 AM
Thought Martin was rubbish yesterday, and got out of jail with a 2 yard toe poke.
Disagree with the word rubbish, did not have his best game, but hardly rubbish, and was not a 2 yard toe poke as he was facing away from goal, it was a nice little deft touch.
Yes, but we know he was actually trying to clear it and he missed kicked it. It's what mcclarren would have wanted ;)
Quote from: fulhamben on January 22, 2017, 04:25:45 PM
Quote from: alfie on January 22, 2017, 03:09:26 PM
Quote from: stevehawkinslidingtackle on January 22, 2017, 10:56:41 AM
Thought Martin was rubbish yesterday, and got out of jail with a 2 yard toe poke.
Disagree with the word rubbish, did not have his best game, but hardly rubbish, and was not a 2 yard toe poke as he was facing away from goal, it was a nice little deft touch.
Yes, but we know he was actually trying to clear it and he missed kicked it. It's what mcclarren would have wanted ;)
Sorry fb the bloke made an error of judgement, i am sure you,me and probably most others have all done/said something we regret, can't we just move on now.
A real, quick reaction striker's goal - and what a difference that goal made - huge psychological plus not to lose the game.
Though it wasn't all down to him, of course, but without actually putting the ball in the net, all that pressure and great play would be meaningless.
I wouldn't pay any more than £1m for Plazon.
I like his work rate but he is too lightweight for me.
Piazon is not doing too badly but has not really blossomed into a top six team player, he will be back on the bench when Ayite returns. As for Martin, he is the best we have for that lone striker role and is slowly showing improvement. We are going to have to pay big money for anyone better so he is likely to be our striker for the rest of the season, we had best get behind him.
