Did he do enough to start the next game
Don't really think so,Slavs will start with Martin again I'm sure.
As I've said on another post he will want to put it over Forest,back him to score.
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on February 12, 2017, 05:09:52 PM
Don't really think so,Slavs will start with Martin again I'm sure.
As I've said on another post he will want to put it over Forest,back him to score.
and that's the problem with him. He should want to put it over every team, not just the ones that suit derby
Like I've said before the manager is to blame for the situation.
The day Martin refused to play at Brighton he should have been sent back,then we would have had whole window to get someone.
Got a feeling Slava is ruing not doing it,so to save face he has to pick him.
http://www.friendsoffulham.com/forum/index.php?topic=58114.0 (http://www.friendsoffulham.com/forum/index.php?topic=58114.0)
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on February 12, 2017, 05:20:23 PM
Like I've said before the manager is to blame for the situation.
The day Martin refused to play at Brighton he should have been sent back,then we would have had whole window to get someone.
Got a feeling Slava is ruing not doing it,so to save face he has to pick him.
He might have sent him packing or to the reserves if we had got more than 1 forward in
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on February 12, 2017, 05:20:23 PM
Like I've said before the manager is to blame for the situation.
The day Martin refused to play at Brighton he should have been sent back,then we would have had whole window to get someone.
Got a feeling Slava is ruing not doing it,so to save face he has to pick him.
Not sure I agree with the last part of the comment Mince, Slava is not saving face if Martin continues not to show much/any commitment, he is being left with egg on it! Not really interested in how CM performed vs Hull and Barnsley though it was very nice of him to show a bit of desire, doesn't compensate for the number of games that he hasn't performed and now left us likely/certain to miss the play offs!
I think Cyriac plays vs. teams who park buses. Martin vs. everyone else.
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on February 12, 2017, 05:20:23 PM
Like I've said before the manager is to blame for the situation.
The day Martin refused to play at Brighton he should have been sent back,then we would have had whole window to get someone.
Got a feeling Slava is ruing not doing it,so to save face he has to pick him.
Slav would've been a fool to send back Martin if he couldn't get a suitable replacement. He's doing a great job given he's been let down in the transfer market.
Quote from: The Moose on February 12, 2017, 08:15:14 PM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on February 12, 2017, 05:20:23 PM
Like I've said before the manager is to blame for the situation.
The day Martin refused to play at Brighton he should have been sent back,then we would have had whole window to get someone.
Got a feeling Slava is ruing not doing it,so to save face he has to pick him.
Slav would've been a fool to send back Martin if he couldn't get a suitable replacement. He's doing a great job given he's been let down in the transfer market.
He went on strike before the window opened..Slavs could have gone to the board and said this fecker is going back to Derby,now back me In the window and give me the money to buy Rhodes or whoever.
He chose to keep Martin,he told the whole country about it in the press.
Bet he regrets it now.
Yes he doing a great job,I'm not saying he isn't.
Quote from: Statto on February 12, 2017, 11:27:34 PM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on February 12, 2017, 08:21:13 PM
Quote from: The Moose on February 12, 2017, 08:15:14 PM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on February 12, 2017, 05:20:23 PM
Like I've said before the manager is to blame for the situation.
The day Martin refused to play at Brighton he should have been sent back,then we would have had whole window to get someone.
Got a feeling Slava is ruing not doing it,so to save face he has to pick him.
Slav would've been a fool to send back Martin if he couldn't get a suitable replacement. He's doing a great job given he's been let down in the transfer market.
He went on strike before the window opened..Slavs could have gone to the board and said this fecker is going back to Derby,now back me In the window and give me the money to buy Rhodes or whoever.
He chose to keep Martin,he told the whole country about it in the press.
Bet he regrets it now.
Yes he doing a great job,I'm not saying he isn't.
but the board demonstrated that they aren't capable of buying a striker. It's not as if they didn't try because we had Martin. They tried (Elrich) and failed. So there's no logical reason to believe we'd have got Rhodes or anyone else if Martin had gone back .
Of course there is no guarantee that we would have got who we would have gone for,but if he had sent Martin back he would have at least put the pressure on the board to go get someone with the whole window to do it,not that last day debacle with Enrich.
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on February 12, 2017, 08:21:13 PM
Quote from: The Moose on February 12, 2017, 08:15:14 PM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on February 12, 2017, 05:20:23 PM
Like I've said before the manager is to blame for the situation.
The day Martin refused to play at Brighton he should have been sent back,then we would have had whole window to get someone.
Got a feeling Slava is ruing not doing it,so to save face he has to pick him.
Slav would've been a fool to send back Martin if he couldn't get a suitable replacement. He's doing a great job given he's been let down in the transfer market.
He went on strike before the window opened..Slavs could have gone to the board and said this fecker is going back to Derby,now back me In the window and give me the money to buy Rhodes or whoever.
He chose to keep Martin,he told the whole country about it in the press.
Bet he regrets it now.
Yes he doing a great job,I'm not saying he isn't.
I am not sure that we could or should have sent Martin back.
Whether we could would depend on the contract. We were intending to buy him permanently and it was a year long long so I doubt that there would be a clause to send back early and even more so we would not have got any money back and almost certainly would have had to pay Martin's wages for the season.
To whether we should have sent him back early I think the answer should be "No", not because he would be any use but because he and Derby wanted him back and they are our rivals.
That should be qualified by saying that we should have bought two more strikers.
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on February 13, 2017, 01:46:48 PM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on February 12, 2017, 08:21:13 PM
Quote from: The Moose on February 12, 2017, 08:15:14 PM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on February 12, 2017, 05:20:23 PM
Like I've said before the manager is to blame for the situation.
The day Martin refused to play at Brighton he should have been sent back,then we would have had whole window to get someone.
Got a feeling Slava is ruing not doing it,so to save face he has to pick him.
Slav would've been a fool to send back Martin if he couldn't get a suitable replacement. He's doing a great job given he's been let down in the transfer market.
He went on strike before the window opened..Slavs could have gone to the board and said this fecker is going back to Derby,now back me In the window and give me the money to buy Rhodes or whoever.
He chose to keep Martin,he told the whole country about it in the press.
Bet he regrets it now.
Yes he doing a great job,I'm not saying he isn't.
I am not sure that we could or should have sent Martin back.
Whether we could would depend on the contract. We were intending to buy him permanently and it was a year long long so I doubt that there would be a clause to send back early.
To whether we should have sent him back early I think the answer should be "No", not because he would be any use but because he and Derby wanted him back and they are our rivals.
That should be qualified by saying that we should have bought two more strikers.
Exactly. Saying it's the managers fault not to send back our only half decent striking option is actually fully retarded.
Knowing our board we could have sent Martin back to Derby and only gotten Cyriac on the final day.
The question is are we better with or without Martin. Slav thought we were better with him.
Quote from: horse1031 on February 13, 2017, 02:10:35 PM
Knowing our board we could have sent Martin back to Derby and only gotten Cyriac on the final day.
The question is are we better with or without Martin. Slav thought we were better with him.
Slav was wrong and hauled him off. Does he risk the same mistake or finally give someone else a chance
Quote from: fulhamben on February 13, 2017, 02:21:59 PM
Quote from: horse1031 on February 13, 2017, 02:10:35 PM
Knowing our board we could have sent Martin back to Derby and only gotten Cyriac on the final day.
The question is are we better with or without Martin. Slav thought we were better with him.
Slav was wrong and hauled him off. Does he risk the same mistake or finally give someone else a chance
Its one game, was he wrong with McDonald and Aluko starting? Whatever fans thoughts on Martin its not always a mistake by a manager when a player has a poor game after starting with him.
Quote from: MJG on February 13, 2017, 02:29:57 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on February 13, 2017, 02:21:59 PM
Quote from: horse1031 on February 13, 2017, 02:10:35 PM
Knowing our board we could have sent Martin back to Derby and only gotten Cyriac on the final day.
The question is are we better with or without Martin. Slav thought we were better with him.
Slav was wrong and hauled him off. Does he risk the same mistake or finally give someone else a chance
Its one game, was he wrong with McDonald and Aluko starting? Whatever fans thoughts on Martin its not always a mistake by a manager when a player has a poor game after starting with him.
it is when it's a few games in a row.
Quote from: fulhamben on February 13, 2017, 03:19:22 PM
Quote from: MJG on February 13, 2017, 02:29:57 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on February 13, 2017, 02:21:59 PM
Quote from: horse1031 on February 13, 2017, 02:10:35 PM
Knowing our board we could have sent Martin back to Derby and only gotten Cyriac on the final day.
The question is are we better with or without Martin. Slav thought we were better with him.
Slav was wrong and hauled him off. Does he risk the same mistake or finally give someone else a chance
Its one game, was he wrong with McDonald and Aluko starting? Whatever fans thoughts on Martin its not always a mistake by a manager when a player has a poor game after starting with him.
it is when it's a few games in a row.
Against Hull and Burton was fine and then Birmingham they were all crap.
personally as i have said i would prefer he was at home kicking a ball against a wall for the rest of the season But SJ is picking him and I'm trying to be objective when talking about him.
Quote from: MJG on February 13, 2017, 03:24:19 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on February 13, 2017, 03:19:22 PM
Quote from: MJG on February 13, 2017, 02:29:57 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on February 13, 2017, 02:21:59 PM
Quote from: horse1031 on February 13, 2017, 02:10:35 PM
Knowing our board we could have sent Martin back to Derby and only gotten Cyriac on the final day.
The question is are we better with or without Martin. Slav thought we were better with him.
Slav was wrong and hauled him off. Does he risk the same mistake or finally give someone else a chance
Its one game, was he wrong with McDonald and Aluko starting? Whatever fans thoughts on Martin its not always a mistake by a manager when a player has a poor game after starting with him.
it is when it's a few games in a row.
Against Hull and Burton was fine and then Birmingham they were all crap.
personally as i have said i would prefer he was at home kicking a ball against a wall for the rest of the season But SJ is picking him and I'm trying to be objective when talking about him.
I make it 6 league games ago, against barnsley that he last had a good game. Form alone suggestes he needs dropping
Quote from: fulhamben on February 13, 2017, 03:29:37 PM
Quote from: MJG on February 13, 2017, 03:24:19 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on February 13, 2017, 03:19:22 PM
Quote from: MJG on February 13, 2017, 02:29:57 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on February 13, 2017, 02:21:59 PM
Quote from: horse1031 on February 13, 2017, 02:10:35 PM
Knowing our board we could have sent Martin back to Derby and only gotten Cyriac on the final day.
The question is are we better with or without Martin. Slav thought we were better with him.
Slav was wrong and hauled him off. Does he risk the same mistake or finally give someone else a chance
Its one game, was he wrong with McDonald and Aluko starting? Whatever fans thoughts on Martin its not always a mistake by a manager when a player has a poor game after starting with him.
it is when it's a few games in a row.
Against Hull and Burton was fine and then Birmingham they were all crap.
personally as i have said i would prefer he was at home kicking a ball against a wall for the rest of the season But SJ is picking him and I'm trying to be objective when talking about him.
I make it 6 league games ago, against barnsley that he last had a good game. Form alone suggestes he needs dropping
Well I disagree, thought At Burton he did well in a difficult game.
As somebody else rightly pointed out if Derby player can't be up for it against Forest when can he be ?
Their support will be on his back as soon as he comes out which I think will be good for us as it should motivate him,
As much as I hate Martin I would certainly start him tomorrow as I see no point whatsoever in having him on the bench as an "impact sub" , play him for 65 mins then bring Cyriac on ,
BUT, in our next away trip to Bristol City I would go with a front three of Aluko, Ayite and Cyriac as there will be opportunities to use their pace in a counter attacking game,
So in a nutshell it's horse's for courses for Martin now.
He isn't Chris Martin and should therefore start. I never want to see Martin play for us again. Pizon, ayite, aliku and adeybayo are enough back up, especially given martin's current form/effort.
Quote from: Statto on February 13, 2017, 06:49:05 PM
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on February 13, 2017, 01:46:48 PM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on February 12, 2017, 08:21:13 PM
Quote from: The Moose on February 12, 2017, 08:15:14 PM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on February 12, 2017, 05:20:23 PM
Like I've said before the manager is to blame for the situation.
The day Martin refused to play at Brighton he should have been sent back,then we would have had whole window to get someone.
Got a feeling Slava is ruing not doing it,so to save face he has to pick him.
Slav would've been a fool to send back Martin if he couldn't get a suitable replacement. He's doing a great job given he's been let down in the transfer market.
He went on strike before the window opened..Slavs could have gone to the board and said this fecker is going back to Derby,now back me In the window and give me the money to buy Rhodes or whoever.
He chose to keep Martin,he told the whole country about it in the press.
Bet he regrets it now.
Yes he doing a great job,I'm not saying he isn't.
I am not sure that we could or should have sent Martin back.
Whether we could would depend on the contract. We were intending to buy him permanently and it was a year long long so I doubt that there would be a clause to send back early and even more so we would not have got any money back and almost certainly would have had to pay Martin's wages for the season.
To whether we should have sent him back early I think the answer should be "No", not because he would be any use but because he and Derby wanted him back and they are our rivals.
That should be qualified by saying that we should have bought two more strikers.
i don't think we *should* have sent him back for the reasons mentioned above but i'm pretty confident we *could* have
Derby wanted him back and Sssshteve said their board were trying to make it happen
My understanding is in the very least they'd have paid his wages for the second half of the season (presumably £500k-£1m) and repaid half the loan fee (£1.5m). So on that basis we've probably paid at least £2m to keep him. Not to mention any additional money we could have got out of them.
What I was trying to emphasise was that I doubt that we could 'have sent him back' if Derby had not wanted him back, say if he was useless or homesick.
As you suggest, Derby could probably have asked for him back and negotiated a deal but we, quite rightly, told them "No"".
As a Derby man Martin should be looking to put one over the old enemy , viz Forest . So I say play him . We never really got going on Sat , Wigan stopped our football flow which of course they were perfectly entitled to do . But I don't remember shouting so loudly when that last goal went in . I skipped back to Putney Station.
Where did you find the rope?
I'm not sure that Martin will have an eye on beating Forest as much as Derby getting a result tomorrow night!?
If we win and the shits don't, then we are above them!
Can you honestly say that you think he would attempt to put in an effort to have that happen?
I wish I could but really cannot see it, unfortunately!
Sad state of affairs I know.
Play Cyriac imo
Well after 26 posts nobody has told us how Cyriac played, it's become another Martin slag-fest (which he deserves, but not on this thread)
Cyriac did ok, but and I say this to temper expectations he has come from an average league and may need time to adpat. I have seen the leage and seen him play in it, it is below the championship level, however some players are above the level and adapt quickly, so hopefully he is one of those.
As for Martin I was willing to give him the benfeit at the start of Jan, but the contract signing is a mickey take, however I still would not have sent him back because Derby wanted and needed him and why increase their chances. I owul dhave got two in and htink we tried but left it too late as always. For info my undertsanding is Derby offered to pay back the whole loan fee (as there was no recall clause and we would be doing them a favour), glad we stood our guns and showed we are not going to be messed apround or forced into things.
Quote from: Darkside on February 14, 2017, 08:56:33 AM
Well after 26 posts nobody has told us how Cyriac played
He looked small but busy with a turn of pace.
From his body language and movement he looks more like a central striker than say Kebano or Ayite.
Far too early to say how he will turn out.
Quote from: MJG on February 14, 2017, 09:10:57 AM
Quote from: Darkside on February 14, 2017, 08:56:33 AM
Well after 26 posts nobody has told us how Cyriac played
He looked small but busy with a turn of pace.
From his body language and movement he looks more like a central striker than say Kebano or Ayite.
Far too early to say how he will turn out.
I'm glad that our striker, looks more like a striker than our midfielders ;-)
Quote from: fulhamben on February 14, 2017, 09:14:31 AM
Quote from: MJG on February 14, 2017, 09:10:57 AM
Quote from: Darkside on February 14, 2017, 08:56:33 AM
Well after 26 posts nobody has told us how Cyriac played
He looked small but busy with a turn of pace.
From his body language and movement he looks more like a central striker than say Kebano or Ayite.
Far too early to say how he will turn out.
I'm glad that our striker, looks more like a striker than our midfielders ;-)
So do I.
But then Kebano and Ayite are seen as alternatives for the main striker position by someone very senior i have been speaking to.
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on February 12, 2017, 08:21:13 PM
He went on strike before the window opened..Slavs could have gone to the board and said this fecker is going back to Derby,now back me In the window and give me the money to buy Rhodes or whoever.
He chose to keep Martin,he told the whole country about it in the press.
Bet he regrets it now.
Yes he doing a great job,I'm not saying he isn't.
Slav knew the situation with Martin long before that but (a) didn't have another striker to fulfill the role; (b) didn't have the luxury of a perfect start to the season in August and September; and (c) considered Martin at fifty percent better than Smith etc at one hundred percent. He also knew the transfer team had been wholly inconsistent in their approach to both Martin and others, having experienced what was going on in the Summer.
If he sent Martin back he would have been surrendering to an untrustworthy regime who would have performed exactly as they did in January. I am hoping the signals have gone out to Khan in the negotiations of his contract that SJ wants changes made that will allow him to obtain quality that wants to play here whoever we sign.
Quote from: Statto on February 14, 2017, 09:34:11 AM
Quote from: MJG on February 14, 2017, 09:18:45 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on February 14, 2017, 09:14:31 AM
Quote from: MJG on February 14, 2017, 09:10:57 AM
Quote from: Darkside on February 14, 2017, 08:56:33 AM
Well after 26 posts nobody has told us how Cyriac played
He looked small but busy with a turn of pace.
From his body language and movement he looks more like a central striker than say Kebano or Ayite.
Far too early to say how he will turn out.
I'm glad that our striker, looks more like a striker than our midfielders ;-)
So do I.
But then Kebano and Ayite are seen as alternatives for the main striker position by someone very senior i have been speaking to.
If that's someone like Jennings then fair enough. But if it's one of the business people like Mackintosh then it shows exactly what's wrong with our current setup
As to Cyriac, if you pass the ball to him and make a run then you'll get it back, quickly, to your feet, which sets him apart from Kebano already. He looks motivated, strong (for his size) and puts himself about a bit, which sets him apart from Kebano (again) Martin and Piazon. He's also fast, unlike Martin and Piazon. Based on his scoring record I assume he can finish, which would set him apart from Aluko. I thought he looked very good and hope he starts tonight.
Its not either
In answer to your question, I thought he did OK.
Quote from: MJG on February 14, 2017, 09:34:47 AM
Quote from: Statto on February 14, 2017, 09:34:11 AM
Quote from: MJG on February 14, 2017, 09:18:45 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on February 14, 2017, 09:14:31 AM
Quote from: MJG on February 14, 2017, 09:10:57 AM
Quote from: Darkside on February 14, 2017, 08:56:33 AM
Well after 26 posts nobody has told us how Cyriac played
He looked small but busy with a turn of pace.
From his body language and movement he looks more like a central striker than say Kebano or Ayite.
Far too early to say how he will turn out.
I'm glad that our striker, looks more like a striker than our midfielders ;-)
So do I.
But then Kebano and Ayite are seen as alternatives for the main striker position by someone very senior i have been speaking to.
If that's someone like Jennings then fair enough. But if it's one of the business people like Mackintosh then it shows exactly what's wrong with our current setup
As to Cyriac, if you pass the ball to him and make a run then you'll get it back, quickly, to your feet, which sets him apart from Kebano already. He looks motivated, strong (for his size) and puts himself about a bit, which sets him apart from Kebano (again) Martin and Piazon. He's also fast, unlike Martin and Piazon. Based on his scoring record I assume he can finish, which would set him apart from Aluko. I thought he looked very good and hope he starts tonight.
Its not either
Kebano has played the striker / forward role before both in Belgium and for his Country, mixed success, but he can do it. He may be a better option than Cyriac to start if Cyriac still needs time to adjust.
Quote from: westcliff white on February 14, 2017, 09:42:08 AM
Quote from: MJG on February 14, 2017, 09:34:47 AM
Quote from: Statto on February 14, 2017, 09:34:11 AM
Quote from: MJG on February 14, 2017, 09:18:45 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on February 14, 2017, 09:14:31 AM
Quote from: MJG on February 14, 2017, 09:10:57 AM
Quote from: Darkside on February 14, 2017, 08:56:33 AM
Well after 26 posts nobody has told us how Cyriac played
He looked small but busy with a turn of pace.
From his body language and movement he looks more like a central striker than say Kebano or Ayite.
Far too early to say how he will turn out.
I'm glad that our striker, looks more like a striker than our midfielders ;-)
So do I.
But then Kebano and Ayite are seen as alternatives for the main striker position by someone very senior i have been speaking to.
If that's someone like Jennings then fair enough. But if it's one of the business people like Mackintosh then it shows exactly what's wrong with our current setup
As to Cyriac, if you pass the ball to him and make a run then you'll get it back, quickly, to your feet, which sets him apart from Kebano already. He looks motivated, strong (for his size) and puts himself about a bit, which sets him apart from Kebano (again) Martin and Piazon. He's also fast, unlike Martin and Piazon. Based on his scoring record I assume he can finish, which would set him apart from Aluko. I thought he looked very good and hope he starts tonight.
Its not either
Kebano has played the striker / forward role before both in Belgium and for his Country, mixed success, but he can do it. He may be a better option than Cyriac to start if Cyriac still needs time to adjust.
I think this is one of the problems thats been highlighted in discussing the striker issue.
We saw Martin/Smith/Woodrow as the main strikers. Ayite/kebano and to a lesser extent Piazon as wide attackers/midfielders. Where as the club see a couple of these players as strikers, but not in the narrow position we expect a striker to play or be like.
Quote from: MJG on February 14, 2017, 09:49:50 AM
Quote from: westcliff white on February 14, 2017, 09:42:08 AM
Quote from: MJG on February 14, 2017, 09:34:47 AM
Quote from: Statto on February 14, 2017, 09:34:11 AM
Quote from: MJG on February 14, 2017, 09:18:45 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on February 14, 2017, 09:14:31 AM
Quote from: MJG on February 14, 2017, 09:10:57 AM
Quote from: Darkside on February 14, 2017, 08:56:33 AM
Well after 26 posts nobody has told us how Cyriac played
He looked small but busy with a turn of pace.
From his body language and movement he looks more like a central striker than say Kebano or Ayite.
Far too early to say how he will turn out.
I'm glad that our striker, looks more like a striker than our midfielders ;-)
So do I.
But then Kebano and Ayite are seen as alternatives for the main striker position by someone very senior i have been speaking to.
If that's someone like Jennings then fair enough. But if it's one of the business people like Mackintosh then it shows exactly what's wrong with our current setup
As to Cyriac, if you pass the ball to him and make a run then you'll get it back, quickly, to your feet, which sets him apart from Kebano already. He looks motivated, strong (for his size) and puts himself about a bit, which sets him apart from Kebano (again) Martin and Piazon. He's also fast, unlike Martin and Piazon. Based on his scoring record I assume he can finish, which would set him apart from Aluko. I thought he looked very good and hope he starts tonight.
Its not either
Kebano has played the striker / forward role before both in Belgium and for his Country, mixed success, but he can do it. He may be a better option than Cyriac to start if Cyriac still needs time to adjust.
I think this is one of the problems thats been highlighted in discussing the striker issue.
We saw Martin/Smith/Woodrow as the main strikers. Ayite/kebano and to a lesser extent Piazon as wide attackers/midfielders. Where as the club see a couple of these players as strikers, but not in the narrow position we expect a striker to play or be like.
I agree with your summary. For me a strike rhsould stay in the focul area, and for all of the issues we have with Martin, he does do that, Ross never did and that gave us some probelms at times. So whoever we play needs to do what a proper forward/striker does. Basically stay up top, movement into the channels when required, get in the box and above all score goals.
SImple really, hehe
Sergi Enrich scored again last night in Elbars 4-0 win over Granada.
