.......imo one of the most over rated footballers I've seen. I find it astounding how despite having the options of Sess, Ayite, Kebano, Piazon all last season all of whom have better end product than Aluko, now the likes of Kamara as a potential wider option to play off of Fonte and Ojo on the bench that Aluko is the ONLY one who is never dropped.
Yes, nobody can deny his skill and ability to take on players. But good "attacking" players destroy/kill teams off so to speak when they attack. Aluko does most of his good stuff in the build up to an anti-climax with the final shot or pass being pathetic.
If given the choice of signing a third striker with the quality of a Rolan and selling Aluko it would be a very easy decision for me. We have plenty of players in our squad capable of scoring 7-12 goals in a season. Ayite, Piazon, Johansen, Cairney, Sess etc. And all of those either play in a squad rotation and still can manage it or play deeper than Aluko in midfield. Considering Aluko plays every game I don't think his return is anywhere near justified and sometimes no matter how much you practice, you are just s*it at that particular thing and Aluko is very very S*it at it.
Just my opinion of course, always felt it. I've had spells where I loved him because he's exciting to watch. The Huddersfield assist from the half way line last season springs to mind but that's the problem. One of the highest appearance tallys last season and I can name on one hand the 'genius' things he actually did. Cairney on the other hand, 3 hands probably isn't enough! And if you look back to the playoff threads from May I actually started one saying similar to this. Kebano and Ayite taken off with half hour to go, Aluko stays on and this happened far too often for me.
Kebano, Sess, Ayite, Ojo, Piazon, Kamara or Fonte. 2 for each position and all that, well there's 7 for a versatile front 3 and maths says we only need 6. Add the quality striker I'm referring to in place of Aluko and you have 8 options for 3 places.
You don't even need much cash, if someone like I read is willing to pay 6million for a player who can't give you end product then fly or drive him there yourselves. Use all of that cash to sign the striker I mean, even if it's gonna be another 9 million pound signing. You'd only need to find 3 million worst ways.
If he wants a new contract and is gonna play like he did yesterday then it's time to move on. We got him for free, great value for money signing because he did offer a lot but as always we need to take the next step and go from a "nearly" team to the "promoted" team and with so many teams competing, we can't afford to go sideways or in Alukos case shoot sideways!
For all your impassioned and forthright comment, dannyboi, qualities I always will admire, Sone Aluko was a highly significant cog in the machine that may just have grabbed a step up the pyramid last term, had we had a decent...... (I am not going to fill in the blank). What has happened to his 'form' this time around has also afflicted others in midfield and attack (Piazon is still our only goalscorer) and we are simply not looking like scoring every attack let alone attacking at will for ninety minutes. We are not holding the ball, we are not moving with purpose and poise. We are simply not the unit that we were last term. And the significant change is what? The sale of Malone? Could it be that simple or has some demonic presence appeared at the Cottage or Motspur Park and frightened the fight out of everyone other than Button and his defenders of whom Odoi has been outstanding and Ream as good as ever?
I am not going to scapegoat SA other than to say he is clearly as unsettled as others in this team. Just what has gone on (and this is a serious question)?
Quote from: toshes mate on August 20, 2017, 09:04:05 AM
For all your impassioned and forthright comment, dannyboi, qualities I always will admire, Sone Aluko was a highly significant cog in the machine that may just have grabbed a step up the pyramid last term, had we had a decent...... (I am not going to fill in the blank). What has happened to his 'form' this time around has also afflicted others in midfield and attack (Piazon is still our only goalscorer) and we are simply not looking like scoring every attack let alone attacking at will for ninety minutes. We are not holding the ball, we are not moving with purpose and poise. We are simply not the unit that we were last term. And the significant change is what? The sale of Malone? Could it be that simple or has some demonic presence appeared at the Cottage or Motspur Park and frightened the fight out of everyone other than Button and his defenders of whom Odoi has been outstanding and Ream as good as ever?
I am not going to scapegoat SA other than to say he is clearly as unsettled as others in this team. Just what has gone on (and this is a serious question)?
It's not a case of scape goating him. We just have more options now all of whom are better in the box than him. If I gave you a choice of Aluko or a good striker what would you go with? We have options for Aluko's position, his stock is very high after last season and I think with ffp it could be the perfect time to find a goalscorer without putting us in financial jeopardy
The Malone comment is fair. If you listen to the FOFcast I remember saying that we wouldn't score as many goals without him but we needed to replace him with a defender who could defend. So far we've done that. There's no 4v3 or 3v2 scoreline. We've conceeded no more than a goal a game. You'd have fancied us to get 2 a game after last year and it should be the attackers getting those goals.
Malone scored them but his crossing was awful so not sure how much of it is missing Malone or the foreaess just not doing their job properly yet. Time will tell!
I have also made comments about 'what Aluko brings to the table' in the vein of the Martin saga. I have said the sale of Malone was a big mistake and I mean 'BIG'. I have mentioned SJ's inability to dictate who is recruited and who is sold. I have mentioned the failures and incomprehensible delays in activity of our recruitment team (Statto's thread on this is well worth the read). I have mentioned the unsettled nature of the team, and its failure to mesh neatly together since all we really have to manage is the Martin replacement or is that too simplistic since Malone is no longer with us? Not leaking goals is no good if you cannot score them and our form thus far is leading to League One or having another relegation threatening horizon to fight come January. How can that be when we were so, so good last term. Is that really to be pegged on Aluko's shoulders? The problem is much more profound than what we see on the pitch and I'd be looking for a demonic presence who doesn't have a squad number and exorcising them bloody fast.
Quote from: toshes mate on August 20, 2017, 09:27:18 AM
I have also made comments about 'what Aluko brings to the table' in the vein of the Martin saga. I have said the sale of Malone was a big mistake and I mean 'BIG'. I have mentioned SJ's inability to dictate who is recruited and who is sold. I have mentioned the failures and incomprehensible delays in activity of our recruitment team (Statto's thread on this is well worth the read). I have mentioned the unsettled nature of the team, and its failure to mesh neatly together since all we really have to manage is the Martin replacement or is that too simplistic since Malone is no longer with us? Not leaking goals is no good if you cannot score them and our form thus far is leading to League One or having another relegation threatening horizon to fight come January. How can that be when we were so, so good last term. Is that really to be pegged on Aluko's shoulders? The problem is much more profound than what we see on the pitch and I'd be looking for a demonic presence who doesn't have a squad number and exorcising them bloody fast.
This is the point I'm making. It's not Malones job to score goals. It's his job to defend and provide crosses. He wasn't particularly good at either so instead of his goals being a bonus it was a compromise of the weaknesses that are a minimum requirement.
Same applies to Aluko. If we are now defensively conceding less then it's down to the attackers to make sure we finish off our chances. Last season was too attacking at times which is great on the eye but not always going to get results.
Aluko should be scoring goals and providing a more lethal end product than he does. The skill is the bonus like Malones goals. But it shouldn't paper over the cracks that he is useless at finishing or making that final decision. It's almost as if he loses control of his feet and panics.
I'd just like to see a team without Aluko to judge if it's better or not. It's impossible to say either way because he always plays.
For all his tricks and skills that are great to watch the bottom line is he couldn't hit an elephant's backside with a banjo. That miss yesterday was truely shocking.
Aluko - brilliant moments - hours of dross. Yesterday was the pits. The sooner he goes the better, Kebano looked sharper, more interested and far more likely to score. Let another set of supporters watch Aluko waste chance after chance.
I rate Aluko highly, He presses high, works hard (usually) and can do a piece of skill that takes 2 players out the game creating something out of nothing (see his goal vs. reading home last year, or assist vs. huddersfield home)
If he could finish he would be in the prem. Gets the fans on their feet and im not going to criticise him after one bad game.
Quote from: @jolslover on August 20, 2017, 10:59:46 AM
I rate Aluko highly, He presses high, works hard (usually) and can do a piece of skill that takes 2 players out the game creating something out of nothing (see his goal vs. reading home last year, or assist vs. huddersfield home)
If he could finish he would be in the prem. Gets the fans on their feet and im not going to criticise him after one bad game.
It's not one bad game though. It's a case of had enough of the lack of finishing now. The novelty of skill and hard work has worn off. If we had nobody else i'd say persevere but we do and we have plenty of options. He's never going to score goals and I think that's a MUST when you play one up top and 2 running off of him. I think all 3 need to have an eye for goal
Quote from: dannyboi-ffc on August 20, 2017, 09:32:44 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on August 20, 2017, 09:27:18 AM
I have also made comments about 'what Aluko brings to the table' in the vein of the Martin saga. I have said the sale of Malone was a big mistake and I mean 'BIG'. I have mentioned SJ's inability to dictate who is recruited and who is sold. I have mentioned the failures and incomprehensible delays in activity of our recruitment team (Statto's thread on this is well worth the read). I have mentioned the unsettled nature of the team, and its failure to mesh neatly together since all we really have to manage is the Martin replacement or is that too simplistic since Malone is no longer with us? Not leaking goals is no good if you cannot score them and our form thus far is leading to League One or having another relegation threatening horizon to fight come January. How can that be when we were so, so good last term. Is that really to be pegged on Aluko's shoulders? The problem is much more profound than what we see on the pitch and I'd be looking for a demonic presence who doesn't have a squad number and exorcising them bloody fast.
This is the point I'm making. It's not Malones job to score goals. It's his job to defend and provide crosses. He wasn't particularly good at either so instead of his goals being a bonus it was a compromise of the weaknesses that are a minimum requirement.
Same applies to Aluko. If we are now defensively conceding less then it's down to the attackers to make sure we finish off our chances. Last season was too attacking at times which is great on the eye but not always going to get results.
Aluko should be scoring goals and providing a more lethal end product than he does. The skill is the bonus like Malones goals. But it shouldn't paper over the cracks that he is useless at finishing or making that final decision. It's almost as if he loses control of his feet and panics.
I'd just like to see a team without Aluko to judge if it's better or not. It's impossible to say either way because he always plays.
Sorry, dannyboi, but last season was about what you can do if you have goalscorers all over the place and the opponent hasn't a clue about where the next goal is going to come from. SJ had manufactured total football out of apparent misfits - who'd have guessed, for example, that our midfield would have real goalscorers in every one of their boots. Freedom and conviction and Malone had it just as much as Sessegnon, Ayite, Aluko, Kebano, Piazon, Johansen, and Cairney, Even Fredericks was unlucky not to get on the scoring lists. This term it is more defensive but I think that has happened because we are not making pressure count. Something is wrong and it isn't something I have read one convincing explanation of.
I was ,
as was everyone else so disappointed with his performance yesterday,but I'm loathed to critisie him too much. He shone in many
games last season and whilst no prolific goalscorer he created much with his trickery.
Having said that I've always wondered why at the time hull were letting him go, it's now after time become apparent .
I'm pretty sure he won't start next game and will be lucky to get on the pitch, probably only in an emergency .
Good points raised by Danny and others.
My take on Aluko is summed up by the need to keep moving things forward. Aluko was very good last season and generally you will get commitment, pace and tricks but lack of end product. If we can get £6M for a player that cost nothing and replace him with a player that gives you more then you do it. I could argue that you get more end product from Kebano and Sess than Aluko anyway. We have Fonte to play in the striker role with Kamara as understudy. Kamara can also play either side of Fonte and if we can bring in another goalscorer for Aluko I would do it.
Aluko's value will never be higher, he 29 next birthday so I would say as I did when I started writing this, time to move on and time to time to cash in and bring in a more clinical alternative.
Danny ,I cant help think that this is a bit of a simplistic view. SA gives the team alot more than flattering to decieve. I share the frustration at his wastefulness in front of goal ,but if he was a good finisher then he would be in a really top side . What else does he bring to the party apart from his abillity on the ball which we all admire?
Well firstly you have his energy and work rate which is second to none. Added to this is his work defensively when we dont have possession or have recently lost it in their half. He often wins the ball back early (turn overs) which allows others to make assists which he doesnt necessarily get any credit for.
When we run out of ideas he is the one the team looked to last year to take his man on, often occupying 2 jockeying defenders and creating space for others. Players also look to him as an offensive out-ball`,someone you can give the ball when the team is under pressure who always has a solution in tight situations.
Dont forget we got him on a free ,which was one of the best signings by the club last year.
I still havent seen yesterdays game ,so it could be that he was sulking yesterday, I dont know. But lets be clear about one thing : without Sone we will be a more pedestrian side,and he would be a player that for the reasons stated above would be very hard to replace.
Quote from: FulhamStu on August 20, 2017, 12:57:34 PM
Good points raised by Danny and others.
My take on Aluko is summed up by the need to keep moving things forward. Aluko was very good last season and generally you will get commitment, pace and tricks but lack of end product. If we can get £6M for a player that cost nothing and replace him with a player that gives you more then you do it. I could argue that you get more end product from Kebano and Sess than Aluko anyway. We have Fonte to play in the striker role with Kamara as understudy. Kamara can also play either side of Fonte and if we can bring in another goalscorer for Aluko I would do it.
Aluko's value will never be higher, he 29 next birthday so I would say as I did when I started writing this, time to move on and time to time to cash in and bring in a more clinical alternative.
I'm glad I'm not alone mate. Nothing to do with not liking Sone or making him a scapegoat. Great last year but not clinical enough to help us go from a 'good team' to Champions.
As I've stated before, one season wonder at Aberdeen, Rangers and Hull,never seems to carry it forward.
You'll find a few players all over fit that bill.
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on August 20, 2017, 01:18:28 PM
As I've stated before, one season wonder at Aberdeen, Rangers and Hull,never seems to carry it forward.
You'll find a few players all over fit that bill.
Sascha Riether a prime example. At times I felt very lucky to have both but in time it's become clear why Hull released Sone. It's a results based business and goals win games so if you are a forward who doesn't score, you aren't much use long term.
Our problem last season, was the team, or certain individuals, not being clinical enough. Now, its hard to target Aluko solely on this, as others were to blame, but, he was a main contributor, and continues to be so.
Game after game, I kick myself thinking saying "If only Aluko had just tucked that away" we'd of won that, or, at least taken the initiative in games and killed off the other team.
This season is pretty much the same, the 2 missed on Saturday were appalling, especially the header, and the one at Leeds, well, it was actually harder to hit the keeper than role it under his left hand side body for 1-0.
Against Wednesday, Aluko was flat, but we all know why, he was offered £££ at Reading, asked FFC for more, we said no, so he now wants to leave, he's sulking. Was all cryptic on Twitter the week leading up to the game, engaged with that fan about the gym situation (how unprofessional) and his body language after being subbed, stank.
Look, I'm not here to hound the guy, but he's a history of this, he only signs 2 year contracts, and, if he could finish, he'd either be in the Prem, or a very sort after asset.
Bottom line is, if scoring goals is the way out of this divison, and, Ojo has a better end product than Aluko, I will drive him to Reading for the report 4-5M they wanted to pay.
Aluko reminds me in some ways of various 'on the ball close dribbling with tricks, stars' I have seen over the years.
Best, Marsh, Johnstone, Stan Bowles, Charlie George, Pat Nevin, Charlie Cooke, Pesci, Berbatov
They were all greats but only one, George Best was a super-star, Marsh was a genius and showman,
I remember him playing for us and instead of heading a ball he ducked his head and flicked it back over his head with
his heal and trapped it.
Aluko is one of those tricksters and most of them didn't score prolifically, but I think his goal-to-chance ratio is
not too good, ala Woodrow, but Sone is very exciting to watch.
I've forgotten why I started this now :0)
Charlie George is 66 and spends his time doing Jigsaw Puzzles,and growing Sunflowers on his allotment.
I suppose with the poor start to the season we need a scapegoat - and Aluko appears to be it at the moment.
Quote from: EastEndWhite on August 20, 2017, 06:02:43 PM
I suppose with the poor start to the season we need a scapegoat - and Aluko appears to be it at the moment.
If we were in the middle of October this thread would be pointless. But we have 2 weeks to sort out what looks like being a potential issue going forward. He has one year left on his contract, he's 29 and his stock will never be higher. Cash in now and buy someone who scores or put faith in what we have?
I don't think he's a scapegoat. We need to do what's best for the team. If that's keeping Aluko, I disagree but I wouldn't be up in arms about it. He's a talented player, I just think he's very over rated given his lack of end product and I've felt this way for months now. And we also have more options rather than being reliant on him last year. Sess is a year older, Kebano ready from the off as opposed to being cold turkey until Feb, Ojo and Kamara too. The need to play him in every game is much less and as with everything in life, when you want to take the next step you look to improve. If we had kept Micky Adams team together in the old Div 2 and Micky as manager would they have been able to take us to the next level? Imo Aluko's finishing or lack of it will put a ceiling over how far we can go.
He's got the ability he just doesn't have the head. It's psychological and Slav should be on it.
That said, the Khan/Kline duo will probably sell him to Cardiff where he'll start banging them in for Colin W@nker.
Quote from: EastEndWhite on August 20, 2017, 06:02:43 PM
I suppose with the poor start to the season we need a scapegoat - and Aluko appears to be it at the moment.
Not at all, his finishing has been uttter toilet, and continues to be, bad start to the season or not. People aren't making him a 'scapegoat' as you claim, they're merely discussing it, on a football forum, about football - funnily enough.
A lot of interesting opinions on SA. However, the worst player on the pitch yesterday was Cairney
Aluko is gifted, and produces some stunning play. The problem is he also has too many lapses in concentration. It costs us too many times. A simple through ball, a simple pass, a simple finish.
Quote from: EastEndWhite on August 20, 2017, 06:02:43 PM
I suppose with the poor start to the season we need a scapegoat - and Aluko appears to be it at the moment.
Where did this Goat escape from ?
I for one would be happy if he was sold. Especially for 5mill+
His finishing is woefull. That header on the 6 yard line over the goal... wow.
Kebano wasn't only on for a bit and he tested the keeper with a good shot.
Time to sell up
