Stevenage
Female football fans 'forced to show their bras' to get into match at Stevenage FC
Acomplaint that female fans were forced to show their bras to stewards before Stevenage's match against Grimsby Town was under investigation on Monday. Both Stevenage and the EFL were examining allegations away supporters were ordered to lift their tops while queuing to get into Saturday's League Two fixtures between the clubs. An open letter sent to Stevenage by Grimsby Town fans group the Mariners Trust also accused stewards of asking to feel the underwiring of any bras during the "gross invasion of privacy".
Complete article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/08/21/female-fans-forced-show-bras-get-match-stevenage
Apart from the lads jokes, surely this is out of place in today's world, or where they thinking of terrorist attacks??
Thoughts?
#PrayForGrimsby
Sounds like a storm in a D cup.
As someone said on TIFF, checking that they were true supporters!
Call me a misery but it's not something to joke about. Imagine you were an away supporter and with your wife?? It wouldn't have been funny
Surely they cannot be allowed to do that, and for what purpose.
something doesn't sound right about all this. Is there any women you know who would not have screamed bloody murder at just the suggestion of it.
I can't believe that the first two responses were making light of this. It may or may not be true but if it is then it's absolutely scandalous. If my wife or daughter were asked to show her bra and have the underwiring checked I'd likely deck the bloody steward.
Quote from: Twig on August 21, 2017, 09:00:01 PM
I can't believe that the first two responses were making light of this. It may or may not be true but if it is then it's absolutely scandalous. If my wife or daughter were asked to show her bra and have the underwiring checked I'd likely deck the bloody steward.
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Quote from: CincyFulham1 on August 21, 2017, 08:45:02 PM
something doesn't sound right about all this. Is there any women you know who would not have screamed bloody murder at just the suggestion of it.
I think it must be true though, it's now in:
The Independent - http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/efl-investigating-stevenage-grimsby-stewards-female-fans-feel-their-bras-a7904306.html
The Guardian has even worse quotes - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/21/grimsby-town-fans-show-bras-to-stevenage-stewards
"A 70-year-old woman was among those left "mortified" by the searches outside Stevenage FC's Lamex Stadium, the Guardian understands."
"the "gross invasion of privacy" went further when some female stewards asked to feel supporters' bras if they confirmed that they were underwired. "This act would effectively constitute a sexual assault and these types of searches are unlawful," the group said in its letter."
"The Mariners Trust letter also claims Stevenage FC stewards carried out full-body searches on children as young as five, leaving at least one minor "visibly upset""
The rules now state that it must be a female steward doing the 'search'. So perhaps marginally better than some are envisaging. But still.... fp.gif it's a bloody disgrace. Is there any new evidence that we've all missed that makes searching someone's bra acceptable?
It's horrible. Really, really horrible.
Anyone know if Stevenage FC is hiring? I have experience, having served guard duty in the army.
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What I don't get is they all let it happen,then watched the game and then said did that really happen...Sounds fishy to me,also its a known fact that Grimsby Girls don't wear Bra's.
I'm sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Since when have newspapers told it as I happens if there is a good story at stake. However if that had happened to my wife or girlfriend I would be writing a strongly worded letter to the club demanding a reason and threatening legal action. Even the police require reasonable suspicion before being allowed stop and search powers
Quote from: Andy S on August 21, 2017, 11:12:41 PM
I'm sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Since when have newspapers told it as I happens if there is a good story at stake. However if that had happened to my wife or girlfriend I would be writing a strongly worded letter to the club demanding a reason and threatening legal action. Even the police require reasonable suspicion before being allowed stop and search powers
Unfortunately this does not involve Police Stop & Search as it is a search as a condition to enter a sporting event, totally outside of the Police actions or responsibilities.
The club provide the powers, and the guidance, to the stewards, who carry out that bidding. If the steward goes outside of those guidelines then they leave themselves open to a complaint of assault, no matter what their intent and where it occurred.
On the face of it, this appears way over the top, but as someone else mentioned, what the press report and the truth are all too often very different in actual facts.
Quote from: Andy S on August 21, 2017, 11:12:41 PM
I'm sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Since when have newspapers told it as I happens if there is a good story at stake. However if that had happened to my wife or girlfriend I would be writing a strongly worded letter to the club demanding a reason and threatening legal action. Even the police require reasonable suspicion before being allowed stop and search powers
As I understand it strongly worded complaints were received by the Grimsby supporter group who helped to organise the trip to Stevenage after the game and those are now being followed up. The investigation is likely to involve the FA and the police, since touching is also alleged to have happened. This kind of thing doesn't happen in much more security conscious environments than a football ground and so how on earth could it happen at a League Two football match?
Have to say that in 64 years of following football this has to be one of the most insulting ever. Just what was the thinking behind it?
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What I don't get is the way they let it happen,why not when they were all going in together turn round and state ! Get Your Effin Hands Off Us! and what were their menfolk doing?
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on August 22, 2017, 09:00:44 AM
What I don't get is the way they let it happen,why not when they were all going in together turn round and state ! Get Your Effin Hands Off Us! and what were their menfolk doing?
A police officer was apparently standing close by the point where the women were individually asked to 'lift their tops' by female security steward{s) and, to quote the reported comments 'couldn't have failed to see what was going on'. I don't think you ever know how you are going to react until it actually happens to you, and so I'd say they probably thought they had to ........ (I won't trivialise this further because it is simply outrageous).
I agree its all a bit bizarre!
Grimsby fans are known for their wacky away days including inflatables and mariachi bands so maybe Stevenage over reacted to news of another fun day out!
Previously a Grimsby fan was prosecuted for assaulting a steward at Barnet with an inflatable shark!
Apparently he said in court he was terrified!
So In my mind the Stevenage stewards actions are at least of equal terror!
I don't see anything remotely amusing about this. I really don't.
Quote from: Keynsham on August 22, 2017, 09:24:02 AM
I don't see anything remotely amusing about this. I really don't.
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My immediate thoughts when I first read the article was what a load of opportunist perverts. Still think that and if i had been there i would have told them to get lost and rallied other women in the vicinity to do the same , unity in numbers.
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I know a few women who most definitely told the steward f**k off and if denied access the club would be facing a lawsuit.
A follow up from the Guardian to the Stevenage stuff ... really good article too, I think!
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/22/bra-checks-football-fans-criminals-stevenage-fc
The treatment of female Grimsby Town supporters asked to show their bras at Stevenage FC's turnstiles last weekend to check whether they were underwired or not, appalled male and female football fans across the country. Stevenage FC issued a defensive statement in response, effectively blaming the reputation of the entire away contingent of Grimsby Town fans for how they were searched and treated by their stewards.
Although I'm shocked by "bra gate", it's hardly surprising. I've been the caseworker for the Football Supporters' Federation for 10 years now and am all too aware of how poorly football fans can be treated.
Indeed, we have legislation exclusively for football fans, criminalising us for offences that wouldn't exist in other contexts, such as drinking in view of a football pitch, being drunk entering a stadium or drinking alcohol on a coach to or from a match.
Elsewhere this weekend, supporters of Brighton and Hove Albion experienced delays getting into Leicester City's King Power stadium, despite in some cases arriving 40 minutes before kick-off. In a statement Leicester City explained that "late" arrivals of fans heightened the problems. By late it didn't mean after kick-off, it meant before. While the club said it would look at the cause of the problems, it isn't the first time a club has implied blame towards fans for circumstances entirely beyond their control.
In recent years football policing has improved dramatically, although it's not yet consistent around the UK. Football-related arrests remain at historically low levels and incidents of hooliganism are rare. Stadiums are safer and mostly welcoming, and the demographic of supporters is broader than ever.
And yet the legacy of widespread football-related disorder of nearly three decades ago still lingers. It is still easy to stereotype and blame fans for incidents rather than examine other legitimate factors. There is little scrutiny of the draconian legislation directed at fans and, with notable exceptions, even less scrutiny of how they may be policed and stewarded.
For example, there is a wide perception that football banning orders are solely for "hooligans" who have been involved in or who may contribute to violence or disorder. But it's often ignored that among those surrendering their passports to police ahead of their club or country playing overseas, there will be scores of first-time offenders convicted of a "football-related offence" that has nothing whatsoever to do with violence or disorder.
The list of "football-related offences" is a long and nebulous one, yet civil liberty campaigners and commentators are, in the main, silent on the subject. Rightly, there is concern at the Metropolitan police's proposed use of facial recognition technology at the Notting Hill carnival – Liberty says the use of this technology has no basis in law and is discriminatory. And yet barely a whisper was heard about its experimental use at the Champions League finals in Cardiff back in June.
Similarly, recent news that drivers wishing to hire vans could be subject to extra police checks following the terrorist attack in Barcelona was given widespread coverage. But for years now, under traffic commissioner guidelines, coach firms providing services to football fans have passed on the personal details of those booking the coach to police on pain of having their coach-operating licences withdrawn.
On Wednesday evening Blackburn Rovers are at home to Burnley in the Carabao Cup – a fixture with a history of bitter rivalry. I'm not going to shy away from the fact that a very small number of people have used that rivalry as an excuse for violence. However, for nearly 10 years now the response to the risk of disorder has been an insistence that whenever these two sides meet, the away supporters are collected from their home stadium and compulsorily bussed in and then taken back to the same stadium after the game – what's known as a "bubble match".
Of course, nobody is forcing fans to attend the match – they do so entirely of their own free will, surrendering their right to freedom of association. But that isn't really the point.
The point is that all football fans are wrapped up like this, subjected to a huge policing operation, often with a helicopter following the coaches, and it happens without question from those who'd justly be outraged if such restrictions were imposed on others in society. Frankly, it says more about the capability of local police than the behaviour of supporters. The Football Supporters' Federation and other supporter groups across the country will continue to campaign against the criminalisation of all football fans and for fair and equitable treatment. We can only hope that our voice is joined by those who are rightly vocal about other people's rights.
• Amanda Jacks is the caseworker for the Football Supporters' Federation
Good post daibo- agree, the way football fans are treated is disgusting, and they wouldn't get away with it anywhere else.
Imagine if they tried to treat rugby fans like this!
Crazy situation. I wonder how the lady steward posted to patrol the Gents toilet got on?
I agree daibo, it's getting too restrictive.
I would say though, the comment regarding the 'capability of local police ' also needs to be taken in the context that the club pays or helps pay for the police operation, and as such, not withstanding resources, the operation set forth is the best that can be accomplished given the fact that if anything goes wrong then the police are blamed, so it's always a case of balancing cost & resources against the possibility of disorder breaking out.
But the piece also speaks of how there are special laws directed at football fans alone - you can end up fined or banned for something that wouldn't be seen as an offence in 'normal' life.
It's the attitude behind it -the draconian laws, and that of the police, who seem to regard all football fans , away fans particularly, as potential hooligans.
Quote from: RaySmith on August 26, 2017, 04:10:48 PM
But the piece also speaks of how there are special laws directed at football fans alone - you can end up fined or banned for something that wouldn't be seen as an offence in 'normal' life.
It's the attitude behind it -the draconian laws, and that of the police, who seem to regard all football fans , away fans particularly, as potential hooligans.
Though I do feel there was a definite overreach by the Government in the draconian laws they introduced, the fans themselves are to blame in the main. Not the majority of fans, I grant you, but all rules and laws are often made to address the worst aspects of behaviour, together with the current climate of criminal activity.
Nothing to do with addressing the debacle of what happened at Stevenage, all it takes is for one fan to smuggle in a flare, or glass bottles, or worse, and there is a potential disaster in the making. If a bomb went off at the Cottage, who would we blame? It's all there in the making, and we live with those restrictions.
As I said, I feel the laws introduced in 1985 were both knee-jerk and an overreach by authorities that had little interest in the well-being of the fans, and more interested in making the headlines of 'Look what we've done to address hooliganism'.
Quote from: Scrumpy on August 21, 2017, 09:55:25 PM
The rules now state that it must be a female steward doing the 'search'. So perhaps marginally better than some are envisaging. But still.... fp.gif it's a bloody disgrace. Is there any new evidence that we've all missed that makes searching someone's bra acceptable?
I don't see how having a female steward do it solves the problem? Who's to say they aren't perverts as well? Either way it's ridiculous that something like this should happen in this day and age. And as for the affected not doing anything at the time, they probably realised they'd be kicked out if they didn't conform so left it until after the game.
Quote from: AlexW132 on August 27, 2017, 04:02:44 PM
Quote from: Scrumpy on August 21, 2017, 09:55:25 PM
The rules now state that it must be a female steward doing the 'search'. So perhaps marginally better than some are envisaging. But still.... fp.gif it's a bloody disgrace. Is there any new evidence that we've all missed that makes searching someone's bra acceptable?
I don't see how having a female steward do it solves the problem? Who's to say they aren't perverts as well? Either way it's ridiculous that something like this should happen in this day and age. And as for the affected not doing anything at the time, they probably realised they'd be kicked out if they didn't conform so left it until after the game.
Exactly.
