After every game now the opposition are classed by some of you as dirty thugs, over physical timewasters with no skill just brute force.If it ain't that its the referee is on their side..lol
Think some of you would like it to be a non contact sport reading some of the posts.
Did you watch the great Cloughie's sides,they were skillful but could put it about if needed to?
Preston weren't dirty just physical as its with the players at their disposal the only way to get a result against us,and its going to happen again and again.
We need to realise this and not be bullied,and give as good as we get.
As I've said its a mans game and physical not bleeding tiddlywinks.... Coyw... 049:gif
As it happens they did get away with some real dirt, but the point you are probably making (and if so I agree) is that they scored two goals and could well have had more by means that had nothing to do with that. For two-thirds of the match they also stifled us by methods that were mainly legal -- high-energy, aerial dominance, robustness.
All that effort did seem to cause them to run out of steam though, and so they resorted to timewasting that eventually rebounded on them. Had they maintained positivity, they'd have done better for themselves.
There are people calling Hughill a thug, if you saw some of the centre forwards from yesteryear, Hughill is a little lamb compared to them.
You cannot compare yesteryears football with todays, the rules have changed to make the game more attractive and less physical. A lot of the players from yesteryear would not last 10 minutes on the pitch today and I believe that is a good thing when you see quality football snuffed out by some thug who will try to do you a serious injury in the first few minutes of a game.
As for Fulham, most clubs come down and will try to be very physical against us to break up play and stop the passing game we use. There was not a really dirty tackle yesterday but lots of minor fouls of which a number were not picked up on. How many times did PNE players charge into the back of our players when they were about to receive the ball or they had just got it.
I have no problem with a player like Hugill challenging for the ball but if you saw yesterday he on a number of occasions was fouling the defender or that he was madly in love with them with all the cuddling he was doing.
May I add another point about yesterday's match and that is about Preston's first goal.
Front my excellent position in the JH stand, like so many other supporters I was convinced that the linesman missed a blatant off side.
However....Having watched the brief highlights on Sky ,when the forward pass was made, there is a quick flash of a Fulham player in the mid-far position playing him onside
I did not notice this at the time, but if I am now correct he was onside.
Overall I think that if we had taken our early chances we would have won, but after that Preston did not need to resort to their tactics to put on an impressive display.
Compared to our methods those employed by Preston may have looked dirty and the fact that they employed time wasting to break up the flow of the game suggested they were a bad side playing outside the rules of the game.
Of course if that were the case they would have been punished with more than the three yellow cards they picked up. In fact they played a tactical game that they new we would find difficult to handle and physically they played within but right on the edge of the rules.
Be sure that many other teams are going to do the same, we have to learn to live with it.
We are not a physical side and get bullied off the ball too often which does come across as if the other teams are overly physical. The time wasting by Preston was dreadful and the ref should have shown a couple of cards to get the message across, but ultimately it cost them the 3 points.
If we had a midfield "enforcer" or two bigger centre backs we would look more competitive in the areas that matter and wouldn't be pushed off the ball too easily.
I like to way we play, the football at times is fantastic to watch but we need a bit of steel the balance that out.
To be fair, the average height of PNE's back four was like a 1/2 a foot taller than Fonte/Kebano. They are simply bigger.
First half yesterday we were sending longer balls up front which was pointless.
Second half we passed much much better, and besides the chip shots over the top, we kept it on the ground more, and should have done that from the start as it suits to our strength.
We gave the ball away four times in the first (all Norwood and sessingnon ) in our own half and they were quick to punish us getting 2 goals which could have been three if Buttons hadnt mad a great save. They bullied us ,but the ref let them get away with murder. The elbow on Ream would have been a yellow even 40 years ago !
We were casual in possession in those situations in which we got caught, which gave them energy. The class difference was none the less Big . A really strong Side? I didnt think they were. We made them look good in the first half and showed them for what they are in the second. The time wasting is annoying as it was even years ago!
To be fair, the time wasting cost them in the end.
Quote from: b+w geezer on October 15, 2017, 01:36:39 PM
As it happens they did get away with some real dirt, but the point you are probably making (and if so I agree) is that they scored two goals and could well have had more by means that had nothing to do with that. For two-thirds of the match they also stifled us by methods that were mainly legal -- high-energy, aerial dominance, robustness.
All that effort did seem to cause them to run out of steam though, and so they resorted to timewasting that eventually rebounded on them. Had they maintained positivity, they'd have done better for themselves.
what you're saying here i for one agree with, but the OP is aiming this at people like me because i labled Hugill (not PNE) a thug, this is based around his constant playing of the man not the ball, the ball is in the air played long by their defenders and keeper (often). Hugill isn't interested in the ball, all he wants to do is pin our defenders (illegal today but maybe not in 1978) by grabbing them and preventing them jumping. All this adds up culminating in a nasty elbow/forearm smash to Ream, but Reams 'not strong enough' to withstand that. Could have a fractured cheekbone today and be out for how long? But he needs to ' man up' and withstand this thuggery because that's what it was. OP would have us sign a Norman Hunter type to withstand this, which wouldn't suit our style at all, we are the complete antithesis of this and i for one prefer it that way.
Sorry but every player is allowed to play the game to be just inside the rules. Most do. Taking the ball to the corner flag and holding it there is time wasting but it is legal. Walking across slowly to take a corner is also legal. You will never eliminate time wasting from the game however players feigning injury is doing a diservice to a fellow professional as a physio may not be allowed on to the field of play if the ref sees it as a time wasting
The thuggery in the Chumpionship is heinous. The poor refereeing is equally frustrating as we are lucky enough to be following a very good footballing side full of players who are not afforded much protection (Ream yesterday) and who tend to refrain from the easy response of "mixing it up." The one who worries me is fragile-tempered Fredericks. He is going to cost us dear sometime this season with his lack of self-control. But, he is also going to continue to bring us points with his pace and ability to beat defenders, so maybe I should just shut up on this one.
BUT, regarding time-wasting, can we all ease up a bit on the opposition goal-keepers unless Button wises up? When we are defending a lead or a draw in difficult circumstances, he is one of the biggest offenders when it comes to time-wasting. He has been booked a few times for this too to my memory.
Nogood "keeping perspective, isit" Boyo
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on October 15, 2017, 01:41:15 PM
There are people calling Hughill a thug, if you saw some of the centre forwards from yesteryear, Hughill is a little lamb compared to them.
Think they all have been silenced now (sorry about the pun)!
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on October 15, 2017, 01:41:15 PM
There are people calling Hughill a thug, if you saw some of the centre forwards from yesteryear, Hughill is a little lamb compared to them.
Bobby Smith comes to mind. Go ask Frank Haffey.......
OK. I'm old. I'm talking about pre-history !
I have to wonder that if our side doesn't know what to expect from referees and opposing sides by now, then does the problem actually lie with us?
I don't think anyone of them was thuggish, the time wasting goes beyond reconciliation at this point. It happens every game, but golly gee the mount of times they abused the time wasting tactics was utterly grotesque. Stop making an argument out of nothing, their clear intent was to waste as much time as possible, and that's a cheap trick.
I think every goal we let in is a mistake on our part. Every goal we score, however lucky, was a brilliantly constructed move. Every team we have played since 1967 has been either cheating us or in league with the devil. We have never had a player who was not pure in thought and deed.
That is part of being a fan. But what some today see us wasting time or dirty or cheating. Is in reality just the way the game is played now. The same way as players can no longer tackle without being sent off. The game changes.
Referees are pretty ordinary these says even at the top of the game and at least the guy on Saturday drew pretty half circles around the ball at free kicks and it takes a lot of careful training and skill to get them to do that.....
Quote from: toshes mate on October 16, 2017, 08:06:11 AM
Referees are pretty ordinary these says even at the top of the game and at least the guy on Saturday drew pretty half circles around the ball at free kicks and it takes a lot of careful training and skill to get them to do that.....
lol..
Quote from: toshes mate on October 16, 2017, 08:06:11 AM
Referees are pretty ordinary these says even at the top of the game and at least the guy on Saturday drew pretty half circles around the ball at free kicks and it takes a lot of careful training and skill to get them to do that.....
Hmmm I see, is that what he was doing, and I thought it was graffiti.
Mince, agreed mate, with the first paragraph at least.
Football has changed somewhat from three decades ago, though any side that maintains a physical side to their game paired with the finess of today's game will always do well.
I recall a comment my wife said when we got close to many players during the Jacksonville weekend, that being how small and almost slight so many looked. I agreed, I guess it never really hit me so much before.
I hate overly dirty teams but I also dislike players in the form of Sterling, who are so dainty I wonder if he is in the wrong sport sometimes.
Being lightweight can help a player to evade tackles, and with the pace to get away from a lumbering defender.
How big was George Best?
Modern refereeing that penalises tackling also favours light, fast, skilful players.
though maybe the Championship is more physical than the Prem, but our manager has experience at this level.
You need upper body strength at any level to survive and be successful in football. Too many lightweight players will never compete at their best until they learn to ride a tackle and not fall over when you brush past the TV, too many looking to fall over at any opportunity and dive and cheat these days.
George Best knew how to ride a tackle and take a tackle and he could also tackle, like many other light weight players in his day.
Players were mentally far tougher as well as physically tougher, many players these days are wimps and fragile and will push the barriers of cheating. A lot of players these days wouldn't last 5 minutes 30 years ago, absolute cry babies, and it's ruining the game.
Can you imagine them playing on the pitches of yesteryear, with the heavy balls and rugby type boots. These days the players priorities are their head phones and their mobile phones and their agents.
I feel that players are too overcoached these days and cannot always think for themselves. They perform like robots, hence the reason why there are few characters left, and few leaders, and that is also damaging the game at spectator level.
Some players do not even know how to tackle any more, which ends up with red and yellow cards.
But the standard of refereeing has also diminished in conjunction with the attempts of players to con the referee.
Quote from: Andy S on October 15, 2017, 08:38:15 PM
Sorry but every player is allowed to play the game to be just inside the rules. Most do. Taking the ball to the corner flag and holding it there is time wasting but it is legal. Walking across slowly to take a corner is also legal. You will never eliminate time wasting from the game however players feigning injury is doing a diservice to a fellow professional as a physio may not be allowed on to the field of play if the ref sees it as a time wasting
Wasting time in the latter stages of game is just football and happens at every level, however, to start it in the first half as soon as you get a lead is not right and refs need to wise up.
Quote from: Andy S on October 15, 2017, 08:38:15 PM
Sorry but every player is allowed to play the game to be just inside the rules. Most do. Taking the ball to the corner flag and holding it there is time wasting but it is legal. Walking across slowly to take a corner is also legal. You will never eliminate time wasting from the game however players feigning injury is doing a diservice to a fellow professional as a physio may not be allowed on to the field of play if the ref sees it as a time wasting
This is all true, but there is a limit to where i think players/teams/managers cross the line into basically cheating everyone.
The corner where it was clear it should be at the cottage side was a clear example. The players all lineup up facing that way, yet the 11 started going towards the river and then plays dumb and takes forever to get over to the cottage.
He also did the trick of standing in front of every free kick. I know its all legal and part of the game, but iots the not the way I want us to play or watch it every week. No matter what the results it gets.
I think, MJG, you make a very important point about the entertainment value of a game and why the referee needs to consider playing time as a valuable asset to all those at a match rather than just the bloke on the touchline shouting and hollering about too much time being added on because their side are winning etc. There was a time when referees would be so obvious about exerting and keeping control but that era has sadly gone. I'd like to see encroachment and unsporting behaviour reinstated as bookable offences.
The irony is that if they hadnt wasted so much time we wouldnt have got the 5 minutes added on and we probably wouldnt have equalised.
Quote from: colinwhite on October 16, 2017, 05:24:29 PM
The irony is that if they hadnt wasted so much time we wouldnt have got the 5 minutes added on and we probably wouldnt have equalised.
there is that way to look at it, but if they were not waisting time then more game play was available earlier.
Yes but the goal came after the 95th minute Which is why Alex Neil was going bannanas! That was a result of the ref aknowledging their gamesmanship.To be fair against QPR I was begging our players to waste time after the 90 !
