Just back from the game; overall a good improvement in places......but...... Rui Fonte is an empty shirt. His movement off the ball is dreadful, he's lightweight and defenders have the measure of him in 10 minutes.
He's not good enough to lead the line and his movement and threat are so poor that he can't play as a false 9 to draw defenders and create space. I've just got no idea what he's for!!
Overall I thought we were a bit better but that isn't saying much considering how poor we've been. The breakdown in our play in the final third is incredibly frustrating and has been the story of our season so far.
Have to agree 100% with everything you've said there.
It's not Fontes fault that we were robbed what, Nine million pounds for him?? The poor bloke is going to look worse than the Marlet Signing if he continues to make the squad. He pretty much does nothing every game he plays.
You certainly have to ask the question who decided to pay all that money for Fonte.
A dozen appearances now, Just the one goal and really no signs of being a striker worthy of a place in the team.
Quote from: Statto on November 18, 2017, 09:47:58 PM
Agree. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt but I genuinely cannot think of a useful role you could give him in a Championship team. He just doesn't seem cut out for it at all. It's a real shame too because he seems like a nice, committed person. I hope people recognise that this is Kline's fault and Fonte is the biggest victim of all.
His bank doesn't file him under "Victim". Get him on the pitch - but only in the Billy the Badger suit - and find someone who can get in a position to put those chances that we had tonight away.
Pretty dreadful. Ran around a lot but had little ball and no chances. Most of the rest of the team seemed to ignore him. Need to seriously bulk up or FO !
Am not convinced by him , but he won the free kick.
I'll stay in his corner. I think he's solid. Watched him play at Braga, and was sublime. His movement off the ball set up some chances. A striker doesn't always have to get the ball to make an impact. Regardless, I know this is getting old, but can't wait to see him prove everyone wrong once he's given decent service for once.
Quote from: Matt10 on November 18, 2017, 10:34:14 PM
I'll stay in his corner. I think he's solid. Watched him play at Braga, and was sublime. His movement off the ball set up some chances. A striker doesn't always have to get the ball to make an impact. Regardless, I know this is getting old, but can't wait to see him prove everyone wrong once he's given decent service for once.
The game is played different over there,this is a brutal league,he isn't up to it I'm afraid.
Quote from: Matt10 on November 18, 2017, 10:34:14 PM
I'll stay in his corner. I think he's solid. Watched him play at Braga, and was sublime. His movement off the ball set up some chances. A striker doesn't always have to get the ball to make an impact. Regardless, I know this is getting old, but can't wait to see him prove everyone wrong once he's given decent service for once.
I am in the same corner as you, think he makes space and tries to make runs but know one passes to him, there was a break away we could have had in the first half when TC won the ball and could have played him through for a one on one with the keeper but decided to play out wide to Sess. You can see Fonte getting frustrated, the same as Martin did last season.
Perhaps we are looking at the wrong scapegoat here!
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on November 18, 2017, 10:47:22 PM
Quote from: Matt10 on November 18, 2017, 10:34:14 PM
I'll stay in his corner. I think he's solid. Watched him play at Braga, and was sublime. His movement off the ball set up some chances. A striker doesn't always have to get the ball to make an impact. Regardless, I know this is getting old, but can't wait to see him prove everyone wrong once he's given decent service for once.
The game is played different over there,this is a brutal league,he isn't up to it I'm afraid.
Brutal in terms of physicality? Just curious, because I've heard this a lot. However, I've watched closely and he had one real bad "physical" match in which he was out-muscled. Since then, he's been a rock.
He's not getting the service. Can we at least agree to this? The one time he's allowed to face goal, it's of his own creation, and we get fouled, then fouled again - and we score.
Quote from: brightster on November 18, 2017, 10:48:18 PM
Quote from: Matt10 on November 18, 2017, 10:34:14 PM
I'll stay in his corner. I think he's solid. Watched him play at Braga, and was sublime. His movement off the ball set up some chances. A striker doesn't always have to get the ball to make an impact. Regardless, I know this is getting old, but can't wait to see him prove everyone wrong once he's given decent service for once.
I am in the same corner as you, think he makes space and tries to make runs but know one passes to him, there was a break away we could have had in the first half when TC won the ball and could have played him through for a one on one with the keeper but decided to play out wide to Sess. You can see Fonte getting frustrated, the same as Martin did last season.
Perhaps we are looking at the wrong scapegoat here!
Agreed, if Rui went backwards or walked as much as Martin did last year, then sure I'd completely get annoyed. I knew when he moved to the league he would have to toughen up, and he did. I think it's because he looks like a weak player physically - and that's what the perception is. He doesn't get the service, he can't score the goals. I was a striker, and it would be incredibly frustrating with the lack of service. Like I said, I want more of how we played the last 25 minutes of the Derby match to be the norm. Early crosses, penetrating passes - some real chances there.
Not fit for purpose in this League or in our preferred system.
Normally would say that a statement like that is a matter of opinion but in this case it's as plain a a pikestaff.
Quote from: Matt10 on November 18, 2017, 10:34:14 PM
I'll stay in his corner. I think he's solid. Watched him play at Braga, and was sublime. His movement off the ball set up some chances. A striker doesn't always have to get the ball to make an impact. Regardless, I know this is getting old, but can't wait to see him prove everyone wrong once he's given decent service for once.
There was a lot of service today, I lost count of the number of crosses flashed across the box. He was nowhere near any of them.
He tries hard but seems a bit lost at the moment, but he could improve and hopefully come good.
It was very frustrating to have all these great crosses, with no one on the end of them, but Fonte doesn't seem that type of player. Kamara seemed far more effective when he came on, and I thought he did well.
This thread seems to be a bit more open minded, so I'll post my video highlighting his play. As a former striker, and aspiring coach, I think a lot of what Fonte does right is being lost upon the result. He doesn't get played the ball, it's simple as that. He is a player that is well documented to pass and move, pass and move. How does not fit the Fulham system? He gets in the box plenty.
The match is on ESPN3 for those who have access. I would advise rewatching it and coming in unbiased with the perceptions here just because he hasn't had the chances. I wish he'd be more selfish since it's very rare that he gets the service anyways. Figures when he was adequately selfish, we get a great chance, and eventual goal.
Quote from: jeremyfulham on November 18, 2017, 10:05:13 PM
Am not convinced by him , but he won the free kick.
Unless I blinked and missed it, that was his first touch in the 27th minute.
Ok he drew the foul which eventually led to our goal.
Seems to spend most of the game wandering round in the middle of the pitch or standing on the wing.
As twig says in a comment above there were so many balls put in the box which just needed a fulham player to tap in. Fonte is our striker - he should be poaching and getting on the end of those. Don't tell me he's not getting the service.
When we paid 8mil for him I looked at his cv and thought what are we doing. Not really done anything in his career.
Quote from: Slaphead in Qatar on November 19, 2017, 03:19:54 AM
As twig says in a comment above there were so many balls put in the box which just needed a fulham player to tap in. Fonte is our striker - he should be poaching and getting on the end of those. Don't tell me he's not getting the service.
When we paid 8mil for him I looked at his cv and thought what are we doing. Not really done anything in his career.
If you're talking about the 2nd half, and the last 25 minutes in particular, then yes...he should be on the end of them.
But he wasn't in the match at that point.
Look through the match again when he was in and count how many times we got a cross past the first man.
I'm sorry, but he gets into the box a lot.
Quote from: Matt10 on November 19, 2017, 12:27:54 AM
This thread seems to be a bit more open minded, so I'll post my video highlighting his play. As a former striker, and aspiring coach, I think a lot of what Fonte does right is being lost upon the result. He doesn't get played the ball, it's simple as that. He is a player that is well documented to pass and move, pass and move. How does not fit the Fulham system? He gets in the box plenty.
The match is on ESPN3 for those who have access. I would advise rewatching it and coming in unbiased with the perceptions here just because he hasn't had the chances. I wish he'd be more selfish since it's very rare that he gets the service anyways. Figures when he was adequately selfish, we get a great chance, and eventual goal.
Here's the video. Sorry for the voice, at the tail end of a cold.
cant disagree with alot that has been saidbut he is a striker who needs a goal. If he gets one or 2 and still cant cut it then maybe he isnt good enough. Although that ipswich goal seems a along way away, things can change very quickly in fotboll. Kamara has improved slightly.
Matt well done with the video. Wish I could do the same with Kamara from yesterday.
It's so easy for people to say players have done nothing and at least you are trying to give actual evidence of his game yesterday.
Quote from: Statto on November 18, 2017, 09:47:58 PM
Agree. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt but I genuinely cannot think of a useful role you could give him in a Championship team. He just doesn't seem cut out for it at all. It's a real shame too because he seems like a nice, committed person. I hope people recognise that this is Kline's fault and Fonte is the biggest victim of all.
Yes, Fonte is the victim of thoughtless senior Club officials who have allowed Kline to get away with 'murder' for so very long. The owners and board should apologise to Fonte and the rest of us.
Quote from: toshes mate on November 19, 2017, 08:13:50 AM
Quote from: Statto on November 18, 2017, 09:47:58 PM
Agree. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt but I genuinely cannot think of a useful role you could give him in a Championship team. He just doesn't seem cut out for it at all. It's a real shame too because he seems like a nice, committed person. I hope people recognise that this is Kline's fault and Fonte is the biggest victim of all.
Yes, Fonte is the victim of thoughtless senior Club officials who have allowed Kline to get away with 'murder' for so very long. The owners and board should apologise to Fonte and the rest of us.
This is a symptom of our owners previous involvement being with an American football team . Stats drive that sport and you recruit players based on them. Doesn't translate too well to association football.
Quote from: Matt10 on November 18, 2017, 10:34:14 PM
I'll stay in his corner. I think he's solid. Watched him play at Braga, and was sublime. His movement off the ball set up some chances. A striker doesn't always have to get the ball to make an impact. Regardless, I know this is getting old, but can't wait to see him prove everyone wrong once he's given decent service for once.
064.gif '',Cant wait to see him prove everyone wrong'' Are you for real.Waste of money .Should be dropped to give someone else a chance.1 goal in how many games .Contribution absolute sweet f.a.
There was a lot of service today, I lost count of the number of crosses flashed across the box. He was nowhere near any of them.
Surely the person crossing is to blame for not finding him ?
Quote from: jeremyfulham on November 19, 2017, 10:12:02 AM
There was a lot of service today, I lost count of the number of crosses flashed across the box. He was nowhere near any of them.
Surely the person crossing is to blame for not finding him ?
Maybe youre being sarcastic. But if he's not in the box (pre substitution) then how can the crosser find him?
Quote from: Matt10 on November 19, 2017, 03:24:12 AM
Quote from: Slaphead in Qatar on November 19, 2017, 03:19:54 AM
As twig says in a comment above there were so many balls put in the box which just needed a fulham player to tap in. Fonte is our striker - he should be poaching and getting on the end of those. Don't tell me he's not getting the service.
When we paid 8mil for him I looked at his cv and thought what are we doing. Not really done anything in his career.
If you're talking about the 2nd half, and the last 25 minutes in particular, then yes...he should be on the end of them.
But he wasn't in the match at that point.
Look through the match again when he was in and count how many times we got a cross past the first man.
I'm sorry, but he gets into the box a lot.
Plenty of crosses went in when he was still on the pitch.
Also I didn't realise he was so slightly built.
Waste of money at the moment.
Quote from: Matt10 on November 19, 2017, 05:43:19 AM
Quote from: Matt10 on November 19, 2017, 12:27:54 AM
This thread seems to be a bit more open minded, so I'll post my video highlighting his play. As a former striker, and aspiring coach, I think a lot of what Fonte does right is being lost upon the result. He doesn't get played the ball, it's simple as that. He is a player that is well documented to pass and move, pass and move. How does not fit the Fulham system? He gets in the box plenty.
The match is on ESPN3 for those who have access. I would advise rewatching it and coming in unbiased with the perceptions here just because he hasn't had the chances. I wish he'd be more selfish since it's very rare that he gets the service anyways. Figures when he was adequately selfish, we get a great chance, and eventual goal.
Here's the video. Sorry for the voice, at the tail end of a cold.
Great Vid mate. Enjoyed watching.
Quote from: Matt10 on November 19, 2017, 03:24:12 AM
I'm sorry, but [Fonte] gets into the box a lot.
Thanks for the video which I have now watched. There are, as you rightly comment, a lot of good things about Fonte, and he is clearly working hard and often trying to find positions where he influences play directly or indirectly. I also agree that often the service to him is not forthcoming. However, he is often caught, as you say, being lazy and trying to time his runs rather than being 'instinctive' in the manner of a true Championship thoroughbred. He is certainly worth his place in the side/squad until something better comes along, and I do not, at the moment, consider him in anyway inferior to Kamara. If anything I'd say Fonte is the more intelligent player of the two. Both will improve with more training time with a strong core side which, of course, Fulham haven't had this season.
The video was a good watch so thank you for the time and effort making it.
Thanks for taking the trouble to make the video. Not sure that I agree that Fonte is lazy, but feel he lacks confidence, and isn't sure of his role in the team (and nor are we!).
We've seen what he can do with that goal, and there he positively wanted the ball and to make things happen - has he lost a bit of confidence with the poor performances and results of the team?
I don't think we realise how difficult it must be to make the transition from a foreign league to one in a new country with a completely different style of play, plus all the other things you have to cope with in adjusting to a new country and culture.
I feel that Fonte, and Kamara, could prove to valuable assets in time. In many ways it's harder for players to come from abroad to a club like Fulham, especially with our struggles with injuries and form this season, than to a top Prem club.
Anyway, I hope they both manage to fit in and do well with, and for, Fulham.
Quote from: colinwhite on November 19, 2017, 07:27:13 AM
cant disagree with alot that has been saidbut he is a striker who needs a goal. If he gets one or 2 and still cant cut it then maybe he isnt good enough. Although that ipswich goal seems a along way away, things can change very quickly in fotboll. Kamara has improved slightly.
Completely agree. Which is what I said at the end of the video. If he gets his chances (such as QPR match) and doesn't convert, then yes, I can't support him much or defend him. What some have said is just simply untrue though, he marks a lot of boxes that are necessary as a striker, except for the most important one - not scoring goals.
Quote from: MJG on November 19, 2017, 07:51:06 AM
Matt well done with the video. Wish I could do the same with Kamara from yesterday.
It's so easy for people to say players have done nothing and at least you are trying to give actual evidence of his game yesterday.
Thanks, MJG. Yeah, I felt Kamara played quite well. Brought a different level and got involved. I think he was in a good position relative to the match scenario as we were pressing for that winner. However, he makes similar runs, but doesn't play off the shoulder of the defenders, he keeps his shoulder in their chest, so he opens up to the ball for a square pass versus Fonte who looks for the darting run. This is why I think Fonte is more like Ayite in many respects, but it's obvious he can and should be found on multiple occasions - so it's not just on him.
Quote from: Statto on November 19, 2017, 10:17:59 AM
Quote from: MJG on November 19, 2017, 07:51:06 AM
Matt well done with the video. Wish I could do the same with Kamara from yesterday.
It's so easy for people to say players have done nothing and at least you are trying to give actual evidence of his game yesterday.
Emphasis on the word "trying"
The first clip is Fredericks declining to play a 30 yard ball to Fonte who is standing between Keogh and Davies... presumably because Fredericks like the rest of us knows that Fonte, lacking both pace and strength, isn't going to beat Keogh and Davies to the ball in a million years
The second clip is him pressing the defender on 7 mins. Someone count the number of times he did that in the 45-60 minute period and compare it to Kamara in 60-75 mins and then you'll get a useful picture.
At that point I turned off.
He's side by side the defender, pace has nothing to do with it, it's all about timing. Also, if you would rewatch our defensive positioning up front, you'll see that Ayite and Fonte were set up to switch off. We play a 4-2-3-1 in attack and switch to a 4-5-1 in defense, with a flexibile position on that "1" (forward), so it's set up to switch between Ayite and Fonte, with the CDM to press more advanced, and angles cut off by the forward. We staggered this against Derby, which is something we haven't done this season. Their playmaker Huddlestone had to be pressed and forced into a less than advanced position. When Kamara comes on, the pressure changed on him to press throughout, while the angles taken off was made by the CDM instead - and Ayite was free to roam.
I think if Joka wanted Fonte to press the same way Kamara did, he would've instructed it. Give Joka more credit that he understand his player's strength/weaknesses, and folds the system to that. The Derby match was a good indicator of that approach, and why it was a good match overall for us.
Quote from: @jolslover on November 19, 2017, 10:29:33 AM
Great Vid mate. Enjoyed watching.
I appreciate that. I have never posted my analysis videos before. I plan on doing more for other players - hopefully with a bit better production, but I won't quit my day job :) .
Quote from: toshes mate on November 19, 2017, 11:15:40 AM
Quote from: Matt10 on November 19, 2017, 03:24:12 AM
I'm sorry, but [Fonte] gets into the box a lot.
Thanks for the video which I have now watched. There are, as you rightly comment, a lot of good things about Fonte, and he is clearly working hard and often trying to find positions where he influences play directly or indirectly. I also agree that often the service to him is not forthcoming. However, he is often caught, as you say, being lazy and trying to time his runs rather than being 'instinctive' in the manner of a true Championship thoroughbred. He is certainly worth his place in the side/squad until something better comes along, and I do not, at the moment, consider him in anyway inferior to Kamara. If anything I'd say Fonte is the more intelligent player of the two. Both will improve with more training time with a strong core side which, of course, Fulham haven't had this season.
The video was a good watch so thank you for the time and effort making it.
Ah, I see. Thank you for explaining that. I agree then, yes he's not a prototypical Championship player, or striker/forward. I approach in defending him is mainly because the manager chooses him for the squad. After that, what are we left to do as fans? Nothing really. So, instead of resist the player, I find a curiosity in determining what is preventing them from reaching their perceived potential. I'm an aspiring coach myself, but it's tough to take the "player" mentality out of me. I'm open minded though and your post brings a lot validity to the thoughts on Fonte.
I think aesthetically Kamara is a player I'd pass the ball to a lot more. That's a fact. If I were his teammate, he just takes up a big amount of space, it's hard not to see that. Fonte, as you brought up as well, is moving off the ball quite hard, and rapid, but it's possible that his runs are even deceptive to his teammates.
Do you think he and Ayite would be the "better" adjustment to swap and just leave AK47 as the starter?
Quote from: RaySmith on November 19, 2017, 11:38:17 AM
Thanks for taking the trouble to make the video. Not sure that I agree that Fonte is lazy, but feel he lacks confidence, and isn't sure of his role in the team (and nor are we!).
We've seen what he can do with that goal, and there he positively wanted the ball and to make things happen - has he lost a bit of confidence with the poor performances and results of the team?
I don't think we realise how difficult it must be to make the transition from a foreign league to one in a new country with a completely different style of play, plus all the other things you have to cope with in adjusting to a new country and culture.
I feel that Fonte, and Kamara, could prove to valuable assets in time. In many ways it's harder for players to come from abroad to a club like Fulham, especially with our struggles with injuries and form this season, than to a top Prem club.
Anyway, I hope they both manage to fit in and do well with, and for, Fulham.
I watched the Ipswich match, where he scored his only goal, and the way we played against them was similar to how we played against Derby. Fonte was involved a lot, there was overall a lot of happiness throughout the team - especially considering we had lost to Wednesday the previous match.
The main thing that stood out was how often he checked back to the ball and continuously dropped back. However, Ojo was in this match and I thought he was fantastic - and so involved. Made me rethink my lasting impression of Ojo and how he did in the QPR match. Would it be possible to get Kamara and Fonte on the pitch at the same time? Does anyone recall if/when this might've occurred? I'd like to look at the past matches.
Overall, if Fonte gets the chances and doesn't convert, then I feel everything is validated. I'm just not going to give up on him. I will admit I also gave up on Ojo too soon, but it wasn't until watching his previous matches did I realize he's actually quite the player.
A striker who isn't getting chances in a team that plays possession football is, to my mind, worse than a striker who misses good chances. I'm struggling to see a footballing reason to play him ahead of the far more rumbustuous Kamara. He clearly needs to play in a league where physical attributes are less called upon. Strength isn't a nice-to-have in this league, it's a basic requirement. It's depressing seeing Keogh charge forward because he knows there's nothing to worry about behind him.
The club has bought a dud. Next.
Good video and points Matt. Too early to rule Fonte out just yet.We need somewhere to find the goal touch soon though. It Will be interesting to see Slavisas team selection on tuesday,if he sticks with Fonte or starts Kamara.
We have great pace down the flanks with fredricks in particular. This causes problems for our attacking players in transition at times as we dont have time to get into the box.
If someone were to put together a stat for the number of times we get to the Bi-line in games we would in my estimation be way in front of most sides. Our conversion rate is abbysmal however, we never seem to find a man and if we do play the ball behind him . Think Jokanovic mentioned after the game yesterday that it is something they are trying to work on.
We are also missing that breakthrough player who can take men on on the edge of our opponents box with out getting so easily pushed of the ball. In that role we definitely havent replaced Aluko.
Quote from: Carborundum on November 19, 2017, 03:51:03 PM
A striker who isn't getting chances in a team that plays possession football is, to my mind, worse than a striker who misses good chances. I'm struggling to see a footballing reason to play him ahead of the far more rumbustuous Kamara. He clearly needs to play in a league where physical attributes are less called upon. Strength isn't a nice-to-have in this league, it's a basic requirement. It's depressing seeing Keogh charge forward because he knows there's nothing to worry about behind him.
The club has bought a dud. Next.
Poor opinion that strength is a basic requirement when 3 of the best players in this leauge are Neves, Costa and Diogo Jota. None of which are strong by any means. Also Vydra scored against us yesterday, Not strong aswell. Forestieri? Piazon? Pablo Hernandez? I could go on..
Slightly built players can be strong for footballing purposes, and light weight can make them quick.
Were some of you actually at the match yesterday,he was dreadful, that's why he was pulled off.😹
Quote from: RaySmith on November 19, 2017, 11:38:17 AM
Thanks for taking the trouble to make the video. Not sure that I agree that Fonte is lazy, but feel he lacks confidence, and isn't sure of his role in the team (and nor are we!).
We've seen what he can do with that goal, and there he positively wanted the ball and to make things happen - has he lost a bit of confidence with the poor performances and results of the team?
I don't think we realise how difficult it must be to make the transition from a foreign league to one in a new country with a completely different style of play, plus all the other things you have to cope with in adjusting to a new country and culture.
I feel that Fonte, and Kamara, could prove to valuable assets in time. In many ways it's harder for players to come from abroad to a club like Fulham, especially with our struggles with injuries and form this season, than to a top Prem club.
Anyway, I hope they both manage to fit in and do well with, and for, Fulham.
Then the best answer to players from abroad taking time to settle in and struggling to come to terms with our football and culture if that is the case, is don't sign them in the first place, it's as simple as that. They could cost the Manager his job, cost us promotion, even send us down the other way.
Absolute madness to even consider signing them.
We are a football club not a holiday camp.
Quote from: @jolslover on November 19, 2017, 04:25:03 PM
Quote from: Carborundum on November 19, 2017, 03:51:03 PM
A striker who isn't getting chances in a team that plays possession football is, to my mind, worse than a striker who misses good chances. I'm struggling to see a footballing reason to play him ahead of the far more rumbustuous Kamara. He clearly needs to play in a league where physical attributes are less called upon. Strength isn't a nice-to-have in this league, it's a basic requirement. It's depressing seeing Keogh charge forward because he knows there's nothing to worry about behind him.
The club has bought a dud. Next.
Poor opinion that strength is a basic requirement when 3 of the best players in this leauge are Neves, Costa and Diogo Jota. None of which are strong by any means. Also Vydra scored against us yesterday, Not strong aswell. Forestieri? Piazon? Pablo Hernandez? I could go on..
The problem Fulham have, is that we have too many light weight players with no upper body strength. My Mrs could barge them off the ball, and then go back and do it again. This is not a recipe for getting out if this Division.
Too many of the same kind of players. No height no strength no grit. We only look good on the ball, well so can my daughter.
Off the ball Fulham get mullard, take Derbys goal yesterday both Ream and Kalas and even Button all bottled it, anyone of them should have unloaded the goal scorer, but they laid an egg.
As a consequence of their weak mentality, we shall continue to leak soft goals, and struggle to buy a goal up the other end, and Jok most likely will lose his job because of it.
Thanks for the vid. It is always good to see to a wider perspective put up for debate. I did see Fonte running into spaces and chasing the occasional lost cause during the game but overall we do need an alternative if JOka is to persist with his 'plan'.
Quote from: @jolslover on November 19, 2017, 04:25:03 PM
Quote from: Carborundum on November 19, 2017, 03:51:03 PM
A striker who isn't getting chances in a team that plays possession football is, to my mind, worse than a striker who misses good chances. I'm struggling to see a footballing reason to play him ahead of the far more rumbustuous Kamara. He clearly needs to play in a league where physical attributes are less called upon. Strength isn't a nice-to-have in this league, it's a basic requirement. It's depressing seeing Keogh charge forward because he knows there's nothing to worry about behind him.
The club has bought a dud. Next.
Poor opinion that strength is a basic requirement when 3 of the best players in this leauge are Neves, Costa and Diogo Jota. None of which are strong by any means. Also Vydra scored against us yesterday, Not strong aswell. Forestieri? Piazon? Pablo Hernandez? I could go on..
The players cited in your list fall into two categories. Some I have seen play and know to be stronger that Rui Fonte.. Forestieri is particularly strong as his masterclass by the corner flag this season demonstrated. Others I haven't seen play live - you might be right. But I won't be too surprised if they prove to be as difficult to shift off the ball as Helder Costa.
I see no one has praised Fonte for his pass for Sessegnon's hattrick.
This guy has quality.
Quote from: J.Perkins on November 22, 2017, 06:20:53 AM
I see no one has praised Fonte for his pass for Sessegnon's hattrick.
This guy has quality.
Fonte appears to me to be a fair weather player, yes he passed to Sess and credit to him for that. But I just don't know where he fits in.
Where should he play and whose place should he take. I would rather give an Academy player a chance.
For a player that cannot find the net, he is very expensive, he is easily marked out of the game, and he does not possess the physical qualities required to compete in this Division.
Can never see him running through a brick wall for us.
Have a look at the first goal, where Carter Vickers messes up and Ojo pounces. A true strikers goal. Then ponder whether if Fonte has been in the same starting position as Ojo, the ball would have hit the back of the net. If you think there's a reasonable chance, then ponder whether based on his showing so far, Fonte would have been in the same starting position, a better one or a worse one.
For me, last night showed Fonte < Ojo as an attacking threat.
Fonte is slightly like Ross McCormack only in the sense that he likes to come deep for the ball leaving us no focal point up top. At least with Chris Martin last season (before his strop) he led the line and offered an outball. Fonte is very similar, drifts in and out and leaves us with no outball.
Matt10 if you are of the opinion that Fonte is good enough to play for us, then I sincerely hope you don't apply to join our stats team should another vacancy arise! Now where is that thread on Fulham's all time worst signings, Fonte would definitely be on mine and I have followed the club for over 60 years!!
Fonte was the only let down last night of a brilliant evening - he was nowhere - pass to RS excepted
Quote from: supersimmo123 on November 22, 2017, 09:26:51 AM
Fonte is slightly like Ross McCormack only in the sense that he likes to come deep for the ball leaving us no focal point up top. At least with Chris Martin last season (before his strop) he led the line and offered an outball. Fonte is very similar, drifts in and out and leaves us with no outball.
Fonte is like McCormack....except McCormack scored 46 goals or something in 2 seasons...
My question is why we loan out Woodrow every year and then spend £8m on someone who isn't as good. Having seen Martin and now Fonte, why on earth can't we give Woodrow a proper run in the team to see how gets on (appreciating I don't know the terms of his loan). He is a bit older, got some good experience at Burton last year and can't be any worse than Martin or Fonte.
Quote from: Artful Dodger on November 22, 2017, 01:14:44 PM
Quote from: supersimmo123 on November 22, 2017, 09:26:51 AM
Fonte is slightly like Ross McCormack only in the sense that he likes to come deep for the ball leaving us no focal point up top. At least with Chris Martin last season (before his strop) he led the line and offered an outball. Fonte is very similar, drifts in and out and leaves us with no outball.
Fonte is like McCormack....except McCormack scored 46 goals or something in 2 seasons...
My question is why we loan out Woodrow every year and then spend £8m on someone who isn't as good. Having seen Martin and now Fonte, why on earth can't we give Woodrow a proper run in the team to see how gets on (appreciating I don't know the terms of his loan). He is a bit older, got some good experience at Burton last year and can't be any worse than Martin or Fonte.
You would need to ask Slav why he did not want him?
Quote from: MJG on November 22, 2017, 01:45:09 PM
Quote from: Artful Dodger on November 22, 2017, 01:14:44 PM
Quote from: supersimmo123 on November 22, 2017, 09:26:51 AM
Fonte is slightly like Ross McCormack only in the sense that he likes to come deep for the ball leaving us no focal point up top. At least with Chris Martin last season (before his strop) he led the line and offered an outball. Fonte is very similar, drifts in and out and leaves us with no outball.
Fonte is like McCormack....except McCormack scored 46 goals or something in 2 seasons...
My question is why we loan out Woodrow every year and then spend £8m on someone who isn't as good. Having seen Martin and now Fonte, why on earth can't we give Woodrow a proper run in the team to see how gets on (appreciating I don't know the terms of his loan). He is a bit older, got some good experience at Burton last year and can't be any worse than Martin or Fonte.
You would need to ask Slav why he did not want him?
slav or kline?
Keep with him , a lot were writing Ojo off before last night
Wood row is not even a regular in the Bristol City team
He may only be there for cover, but if he was that good he would be in the line up for every match.
Quote from: Stoneleigh Loyalist on November 22, 2017, 04:15:25 PM
Wood row is not even a regular in the Bristol City team
He may only be there for cover, but if he was that good he would be in the line up for every match.
Scored a good goal last night, a real striker's goal.
Quote from: J.Perkins on November 22, 2017, 06:20:53 AM
I see no one has praised Fonte for his pass for Sessegnon's hattrick.
This guy has quality.
I think we look at his overall play and then assess his value compared to his price tag, my own conclusion is outrageous!!
Wouls like to have seen Fonte score a few goals which he hasat,but think it would be a mistake to right him off yet as he is a very skillful player.
Quote from: davew on November 22, 2017, 10:02:51 AM
Matt10 if you are of the opinion that Fonte is good enough to play for us, then I sincerely hope you don't apply to join our stats team should another vacancy arise! Now where is that thread on Fulham's all time worst signings, Fonte would definitely be on mine and I have followed the club for over 60 years!!
Yeah, he's good enough. It's easy for you to say he's not because he hasn't done anything, so naturally me being on his side is going to ruffle some feathers. I think it's been proven in Fulham's history that there are players that just aren't given enough time. We still have a lot of season left, and with Ayite out, I expect Fonte's versatility to stand out in either a striker role or winger.
Also, noone has corrected the poster, but Fonte didn't send that pass up to Sess, it was Norwood. Maybe watching these videos actually does help :)
Quote from: colinwhite on November 22, 2017, 06:31:38 PM
Wouls like to have seen Fonte score a few goals which he hasat,but think it would be a mistake to right him off yet as he is a very skillful player.
Hate to be controversial, but having just watched the 90 minute replay, what skills did he display?? He went missing for most of the 1/2 hour he was on, something he has managed for longer periods before when selected and then usually been substituted!! The rest of the team seem reluctant to pass the ball to him and after what I have seen so far this season, I don't blame them!!! Cairney did pass the ball to him twice, so Fonte could take a throw in, both of them were bordering foul throws!! There is no way he should be in our squad!!!!!!! Maybe the reason we have performed so badly this season is that our best players (when fit) despair at some of the team selections, I know I do!!!
Quote from: jeremyfulham on November 22, 2017, 03:52:53 PM
Keep with him , a lot were writing Ojo off before last night
Myself included. I admit I was judging Ojo off of the QPR match. I took the time and watched the matches he's been in before, and he's actually quite the bright spot. Can't quite put my finger on him just yet. He has moments of brilliance and momentary lapses. Regardless, he's finishing and creating chances, so that's exactly what we need.
Quote from: Matt10 on November 22, 2017, 10:59:42 PM
Quote from: davew on November 22, 2017, 10:02:51 AM
Matt10 if you are of the opinion that Fonte is good enough to play for us, then I sincerely hope you don't apply to join our stats team should another vacancy arise! Now where is that thread on Fulham's all time worst signings, Fonte would definitely be on mine and I have followed the club for over 60 years!!
Yeah, he's good enough. It's easy for you to say he's not because he hasn't done anything, so naturally me being on his side is going to ruffle some feathers. I think it's been proven in Fulham's history that there are players that just aren't given enough time. We still have a lot of season left, and with Ayite out, I expect Fonte's versatility to stand out in either a striker role or winger. Fonte striker or winger (lol), yeah we need a good winger, Fonte's pace is awesome (lol).
Also, noone has corrected the poster, but Fonte didn't send that pass up to Sess, it was Norwood. Maybe watching these videos actually does help :)
No Matt, he isn't m8!! Versatility, what versatility???? Are you saying he can play in many positions, well he can't play as a striker which is what he was signed for and to my knowledge he hasn't made many assists, or has he? He doesn't tackle people and is too lightweight, maybe I need another visit to Specsavers, which in the UK is a top opticians service. Fonte make an assist yesterday (lol), our players yesterday seemed to prefer playing the ball to the opponents than Fonte, I hope he shows more b4 the transfer window otherwise he must be put up for sale/free transfer in the January window with Kline having to pay FFC compensation!!
Quote from: davew on November 22, 2017, 11:03:07 PM
Quote from: colinwhite on November 22, 2017, 06:31:38 PM
Wouls like to have seen Fonte score a few goals which he hasat,but think it would be a mistake to right him off yet as he is a very skillful player.
Hate to be controversial, but having just watched the 90 minute replay, what skills did he display?? He went missing for most of the 1/2 hour he was on, something he has managed for longer periods before when selected and then usually been substituted!! The rest of the team seem reluctant to pass the ball to him and after what I have seen so far this season, I don't blame them!!! Cairney did pass the ball to him twice, so Fonte could take a throw in, both of them were bordering foul throws!! There is no way he should be in our squad!!!!!!! Maybe the reason we have performed so badly this season is that our best players (when fit) despair at some of the team selections, I know I do!!!
If you watched the match then you would see our tactics changed significantly. Fonte played deeper defensively so Cairney can get on the loose passes and also Fredericks could try to stay goal-side. Fonte's role in the match was not to have the ball at all times. It was to play defense and set up outlets going forward. Having him and AK47 also lessened the chance of their CB from getting forward to overload the left side of the pitch.
I know your mind is made up and all, and there's no changing it, but using Fonte as a scapegoat for this match is out of context and has no validity to compare seeing as we were desperately trying to defend, and find outlets from their numbers being built.
Quote from: davew on November 22, 2017, 11:08:56 PM
Quote from: Matt10 on November 22, 2017, 10:59:42 PM
Quote from: davew on November 22, 2017, 10:02:51 AM
Matt10 if you are of the opinion that Fonte is good enough to play for us, then I sincerely hope you don't apply to join our stats team should another vacancy arise! Now where is that thread on Fulham's all time worst signings, Fonte would definitely be on mine and I have followed the club for over 60 years!!
Yeah, he's good enough. It's easy for you to say he's not because he hasn't done anything, so naturally me being on his side is going to ruffle some feathers. I think it's been proven in Fulham's history that there are players that just aren't given enough time. We still have a lot of season left, and with Ayite out, I expect Fonte's versatility to stand out in either a striker role or winger. Fonte striker or winger (lol), yeah we need a good winger, Fonte's pace is awesome (lol).
Also, noone has corrected the poster, but Fonte didn't send that pass up to Sess, it was Norwood. Maybe watching these videos actually does help :)
No Matt, he isn't m8!! Versatility, what versatility???? Are you saying he can play in many positions, well he can't play as a striker which is what he was signed for and to my knowledge he hasn't made many assists, or has he? He doesn't tackle people and is too lightweight, maybe I need another visit to Specsavers, which in the UK is a top opticians service. Fonte make an assist yesterday (lol), our players yesterday seemed to prefer playing the ball to the opponents than Fonte, I hope he shows more b4 the transfer window otherwise he must be put up for sale/free transfer in the January window with Kline having to pay FFC compensation!!
And Tim Ream was a LB, so was Sess, and Odoi was an RB. What are you trying to prove? Fonte is a team player, he will play anywhere the coach puts him. Ayite is the same, and has reaped the benefits.
Like I said, there's no point arguing with you as your mind is made up. Follow that bandwagon of constantly singling out players to validate where we are. It's collective when we lose and it's collective when we win. I've already shown you video, in detail, on what opportunities have been missed and created with Fonte. I've also admitted that he needs to modify something with his runs off the ball in the striker position. I personally would prefer he play the same role as Ayite as they are more similar, like I've already said.
Don't wish to enter an argument, not like me!! Where was I using Fonte as a scapegoat, we won didn't we?? My own analysis is that when he is in the team he doesn't offer very much and our best players know that!! The fact that he is playing out of position so I keep reading I really don't understand any more than what his best position is? I imagined or read somewhere he was signed as a striker, what was it 7, 8 or 9million (lol), in 13 appearances he hasn't once struck me as somebody who could be classed as a striker! Chris Martin took the biscuit for that role.
Quote from: davew on November 22, 2017, 11:17:54 PM
Don't wish to enter an argument, not like me!! Where was I using Fonte as a scapegoat, we won didn't we?? My own analysis is that when he is in the team he doesn't offer very much and our best players know that!! The fact that he is playing out of position so I keep reading I really don't understand any more than what his best position is? I imagined or read somewhere he was signed as a striker, what was it 7, 8 or 9million (lol), in 13 appearances he hasn't once struck me as somebody who could be classed as a striker! Chris Martin took the biscuit for that role.
Yes, I believe he signed on as a striker. As you know in Slav's realm, that means you could be playing Center Mid. Who knows? Like I also said, he needs to modify the types of runs he makes because he's not being found. I don't think its' something as petty as our best players don't like the guy. I think it's more so that 1. We have played very conservative up until the Derby match and 2. Rui's runs are timed too early, and is not quite in-sync with the nature of the likes of Fredericks. These are things they need to work through. These are things in which they had been in-sync with before the drought we went on.
Lastly, why not just give up on the guy when he actually does get those chances and skies them into Row Z? Also why not just give the guy credit for the chances he created inadvertently, which I also highlighted in my video.
I say give him more time, more chances and let his confidence grow. Ojo proved me wrong, maybe Fonte will do the same for yourself and others. We will see.
Matt10, I have just been analysing your posts since you joined the forum and many seem to be in defence of our questionable signings by a certain Mr Kline, that isn't you in disguise is it?? (Only joking), have a nice day!!
Quote from: davew on November 22, 2017, 11:46:23 PM
Matt10, I have just been analysing your posts since you joined the forum and many seem to be in defence of our questionable signings by a certain Mr Kline, that isn't you in disguise is it?? (Only joking), have a nice day!!
Haha, you caught me! :)
Naw, I have been watching Fonte for a while now, and was excited when he joined. He's had to play completely different role here, and admittedly Fulham play differently than most of the clubs I've seen him play for. I honestly think he will benefit from much more direct play and just give him the ball as much as possible. Like any forward, he needs his touches to get his confidence in check. Like I said though, he has to modify something about his game to be more presentable as an option to pass to.
There's a lot of guesswork going on about the instructions given to Fonte before he came on Tuesday night. I haven't watched the whole match yet but I have a feeling the tactic at 5-2 was to stem the flow of aggression from our opponents because the lead wasn't having the desired effect. That may have been down to having a free flowing and open game one day earlier than our opponents who played Friday night. We also had the added problem of travelling. Our midfield always has a lot of work to do and I'd suggest that poor scheduling of matches does influence what happens on the pitch when you do not have options to rotate players without losing tenacity.
Although I believe Fonte is struggling to find his true place in the side, i.e. whatever it was that Kline wanted Slav to use him for, but I still say it is too early to write him off.
I'd also ask a serious question about who made the decision to loan Woodrow out - is that made by the recruitment team or does Slav have a veto? I very much doubt the latter since he didn't have a veto over Aluko and Malone.....
As I say so much guesswork going on.
Quote from: Statto on November 23, 2017, 08:36:42 AM
In almost 2 yrs at Fulham, I think Slav has only once named Woodrow in a league match starting XI. I don't think Slav rated him at all.
The point is that for most of the time SJ has been at Fulham Woodrow has been out on loan. That means not training at Motspur Park with those who would be his team mates for starters. We already know that Kline and the recruitment team as a whole had and perhaps still have a big influence over who should be played by SJ for whatever reasons. As I say it is all guesswork. Players all have their seasons when they hit their best and mostly it is all down to chance. I don't think Woodrow has hit any kind of impressive form anywhere he has gone but that is not to say he cannot achieve it. Sometimes you just need a mentor who pushes the right buttons often by chance and perhaps that is true of Fonte too.
Quote from: Statto on November 23, 2017, 11:04:38 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on November 23, 2017, 09:43:43 AM
Quote from: Statto on November 23, 2017, 08:36:42 AM
In almost 2 yrs at Fulham, I think Slav has only once named Woodrow in a league match starting XI. I don't think Slav rated him at all.
The point is that for most of the time SJ has been at Fulham Woodrow has been out on loan. That means not training at Motspur Park with those who would be his team mates for starters. We already know that Kline and the recruitment team as a whole had and perhaps still have a big influence over who should be played by SJ for whatever reasons. As I say it is all guesswork. Players all have their seasons when they hit their best and mostly it is all down to chance. I don't think Woodrow has hit any kind of impressive form anywhere he has gone but that is not to say he cannot achieve it. Sometimes you just need a mentor who pushes the right buttons often by chance and perhaps that is true of Fonte too.
There were 13 months between Jokanovic taking over and Woodrow going out on loan, then he also had this summer to work with him, through the first few games of this season. I do not disagree with you about Kline's influence generally, but specifically in relation to Woodrow I don't think it makes much difference because the manager has shown no desire to use him.
would it surprise you to say it's actually the opposite to the previous poster? . The 'club' rate Woodrow, hence his new contracts and extensions and it's Slav who doesn't? It's the 'club' as such that is in charge of those deals not Slav.
Quote from: Statto on November 23, 2017, 08:36:42 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on November 23, 2017, 08:24:10 AM
I'd also ask a serious question about who made the decision to loan Woodrow out - is that made by the recruitment team or does Slav have a veto? I very much doubt the latter since he didn't have a veto over Aluko and Malone.....
With Aluko, Slav came out and said he didn't want him to leave, but what makes you think he didn't want Woodrow to go and would have vetoed that move if he could? In almost 2 yrs at Fulham, I think Slav has only once named Woodrow in a league match starting XI. I don't think Slav rated him at all.
can I just say that the Aluko quite was don't at a time when hardly any signings had been made. And even I agreed with him there. But as more players came in I did not see any new quotes from Slav.
Now I'm not sayin he didn't want him to stay, but his quite should be seen in the context it was said.
Quote from: MJG on November 23, 2017, 11:37:24 AM
Quote from: Statto on November 23, 2017, 11:04:38 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on November 23, 2017, 09:43:43 AM
Quote from: Statto on November 23, 2017, 08:36:42 AM
In almost 2 yrs at Fulham, I think Slav has only once named Woodrow in a league match starting XI. I don't think Slav rated him at all.
The point is that for most of the time SJ has been at Fulham Woodrow has been out on loan. That means not training at Motspur Park with those who would be his team mates for starters. We already know that Kline and the recruitment team as a whole had and perhaps still have a big influence over who should be played by SJ for whatever reasons. As I say it is all guesswork. Players all have their seasons when they hit their best and mostly it is all down to chance. I don't think Woodrow has hit any kind of impressive form anywhere he has gone but that is not to say he cannot achieve it. Sometimes you just need a mentor who pushes the right buttons often by chance and perhaps that is true of Fonte too.
There were 13 months between Jokanovic taking over and Woodrow going out on loan, then he also had this summer to work with him, through the first few games of this season. I do not disagree with you about Kline's influence generally, but specifically in relation to Woodrow I don't think it makes much difference because the manager has shown no desire to use him.
would it surprise you to say it's actually the opposite to the previous poster? . The 'club' rate Woodrow, hence his new contracts and extensions and it's Slav who doesn't? It's the 'club' as such that is in charge of those deals not Slav.
Yes, I agree with your analogy and that makes sense and explains a quite a lot.
I wonder what the overal relationship is between Jok and the club, is it a healthy one. Or is it slightly strained. I know it's impossible to agree all the time, but I just wondered if there was a big enough difference of opinion to cause alarm.
Quote from: MJG on November 23, 2017, 11:37:24 AM
would it surprise you to say it's actually the opposite to the previous poster? . The 'club' rate Woodrow, hence his new contracts and extensions and it's Slav who doesn't? It's the 'club' as such that is in charge of those deals not Slav.
But the power of the Kline/Recruitment Team veto affects and applies to all matters concerning recruitment and retention, which rather negates what SJ may think or feel about who is in his 'available' squad - period. None of us actually know how deep that veto runs in the Club's culture, as the sales and/or failed recruitment of many a player demonstrates. The application of such an argument to Woodrow is an irrelevance.
With Braga winning their Europa League group, perhaps they could repurchase their star in January...could be the man to bring home a European title for them :)
Quote from: mlangstrom on November 24, 2017, 01:33:56 PM
With Braga winning their Europa League group, perhaps they could repurchase their star in January...could be the man to bring home a European title for them :)
:005:
Quote from: peaty on November 25, 2017, 03:25:24 AM
Quote from: mlangstrom on November 24, 2017, 01:33:56 PM
With Braga winning their Europa League group, perhaps they could repurchase their star in January...could be the man to bring home a European title for them :)
:005:
I shall drive him to the airport, although I suspect I will have to join the queue.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on November 25, 2017, 12:51:41 PM
Quote from: peaty on November 25, 2017, 03:25:24 AM
Quote from: mlangstrom on November 24, 2017, 01:33:56 PM
With Braga winning their Europa League group, perhaps they could repurchase their star in January...could be the man to bring home a European title for them :)
[/quot
:005:
I shall drive him to the airport, although I suspect I will have to join the queue.
Yeh and I'll chip in with the air fare.
Quote from: WayneKerrins on November 18, 2017, 11:13:47 PM
Not fit for purpose in this League or in our preferred system.
Normally would say that a statement like that is a matter of opinion but in this case it's as plain a a pikestaff.
A month on the pikestaff is getting longer and the video evidence scarcer..
Just back & read the ongoing criticism of Rui Fonte on the match day thread. Having watched him today, I think he is starting to adapt to the physical challenges of the Championship. Still a way to go. His off the ball work went largely unproductive today which is a shame given the diagonal runs he was making. Still time to come good hopefully.
Fonte made a couple of tackles when tracking back........so what ?
He was useless
I saw KMac looking pretty underwhelmed when the Kamara/Fonte substitution was made
If KMac bigs up Kamara i'd be surprised. He should have got at least two goals today
When Fonte came on for Kamara today I was really hoping there were no boos. Kamara got a good ovation.
There were boos. Amazingly, the Riverside is completely quiet all game but a few over there decided it was a good idea to boo as his name was announced.
A man needing convincing will always remain unconvinced.
It's a joke at this point. He put in a good 8 minutes, or whatever it was, and didn't make a mistake. If we were all constantly judged on our past mistakes, then we'd never get anywhere in this world.
We finally started with a 4-1-2-3 from last year, and it paid dividends. Kamara was outstanding and the starting spot is his to lose. If SJ doesn't see it that way, then so be it; Rui should not be blasted just because the coach chooses him to be the starter for the next match or in previous matches.
Give credit where it's due, and move on. Hoping for a player to do well is wishing for Fulham to do well - that's all you should want in our players.
Fonte continues to get game time therefore the Coach must see some good in him in training . His play before he came here must have been good in order for us to pay the reported £9m transfer fee.
I really hope he comes good because we are desperate for a striker but right now it is hard to see what can be done to make a difference to him.
Quote from: filham on December 23, 2017, 10:18:09 PM
Fonte continues to get game time therefore the Coach must see some good in him in training . His play before he came here must have been good in order for us to pay the reported £9m transfer fee.
I really hope he comes good because we are desperate for a striker but right now it is hard to see what can be done to make a difference to him.
Or he isn't that good in training but because he cost 9mill Jok thinks or has been told he needs to be played. Who would know!?
Quote from: Statto on November 23, 2017, 01:47:03 PM
Quote from: MJG on November 23, 2017, 11:37:24 AM
Quote from: Statto on November 23, 2017, 11:04:38 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on November 23, 2017, 09:43:43 AM
Quote from: Statto on November 23, 2017, 08:36:42 AM
In almost 2 yrs at Fulham, I think Slav has only once named Woodrow in a league match starting XI. I don't think Slav rated him at all.
The point is that for most of the time SJ has been at Fulham Woodrow has been out on loan. That means not training at Motspur Park with those who would be his team mates for starters. We already know that Kline and the recruitment team as a whole had and perhaps still have a big influence over who should be played by SJ for whatever reasons. As I say it is all guesswork. Players all have their seasons when they hit their best and mostly it is all down to chance. I don't think Woodrow has hit any kind of impressive form anywhere he has gone but that is not to say he cannot achieve it. Sometimes you just need a mentor who pushes the right buttons often by chance and perhaps that is true of Fonte too.
There were 13 months between Jokanovic taking over and Woodrow going out on loan, then he also had this summer to work with him, through the first few games of this season. I do not disagree with you about Kline's influence generally, but specifically in relation to Woodrow I don't think it makes much difference because the manager has shown no desire to use him.
would it surprise you to say it's actually the opposite to the previous poster? . The 'club' rate Woodrow, hence his new contracts and extensions and it's Slav who doesn't? It's the 'club' as such that is in charge of those deals not Slav.
Sounds perfectly plausible to me. And that's way it should be, the manager picking the team.
Personally I don't rate Woodrow anyway.
I don't rate Woodrow either, but I think the behaviour and decisions of both Jokanovic and the club are totally rational. Jokanovic doesn't think that Woodrow is suitable/good enough so we send him out on loan. However, the club sees Woodrow as an asset: either as a member of the team in the future, or that he will bring some money back if we decide to sell him. There must be such a long-term club plan in place and that's the reason I am not against the existence of a stats team and general manager/director of football. Sometimes the results will be good (summer 2016), sometimes not so good (summer 2017) but it's important that we have a plan and long term strategy.
Our American friends will know better, but I found an interesting article about the Minnesota Vikings and their plan/strategy - it's a good read.
http://www.skysports.com/nfl/news/12118/11139384/minnesota-vikings-rick-spielmans-recruitment-key-to-teams-success
Quote from: Asotosyios on December 24, 2017, 02:13:52 AM
Quote from: Statto on November 23, 2017, 01:47:03 PM
Quote from: MJG on November 23, 2017, 11:37:24 AM
Quote from: Statto on November 23, 2017, 11:04:38 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on November 23, 2017, 09:43:43 AM
Quote from: Statto on November 23, 2017, 08:36:42 AM
In almost 2 yrs at Fulham, I think Slav has only once named Woodrow in a league match starting XI. I don't think Slav rated him at all.
The point is that for most of the time SJ has been at Fulham Woodrow has been out on loan. That means not training at Motspur Park with those who would be his team mates for starters. We already know that Kline and the recruitment team as a whole had and perhaps still have a big influence over who should be played by SJ for whatever reasons. As I say it is all guesswork. Players all have their seasons when they hit their best and mostly it is all down to chance. I don't think Woodrow has hit any kind of impressive form anywhere he has gone but that is not to say he cannot achieve it. Sometimes you just need a mentor who pushes the right buttons often by chance and perhaps that is true of Fonte too.
There were 13 months between Jokanovic taking over and Woodrow going out on loan, then he also had this summer to work with him, through the first few games of this season. I do not disagree with you about Kline's influence generally, but specifically in relation to Woodrow I don't think it makes much difference because the manager has shown no desire to use him.
would it surprise you to say it's actually the opposite to the previous poster? . The 'club' rate Woodrow, hence his new contracts and extensions and it's Slav who doesn't? It's the 'club' as such that is in charge of those deals not Slav.
Sounds perfectly plausible to me. And that's way it should be, the manager picking the team.
Personally I don't rate Woodrow anyway.
I don't rate Woodrow either, but I think the behaviour and decisions of both Jokanovic and the club are totally rational. Jokanovic doesn't think that Woodrow is suitable/good enough so we send him out on loan. However, the club sees Woodrow as an asset: either as a member of the team in the future, or that he will bring some money back if we decide to sell him. There must be such a long-term club plan in place and that's the reason I am not against the existence of a stats team and general manager/director of football. Sometimes the results will be good (summer 2016), sometimes not so good (summer 2017) but it's important that we have a plan and long term strategy.
Our American friends will know better, but I found an interesting article about the Minnesota Vikings and their plan/strategy - it's a good read.
http://www.skysports.com/nfl/news/12118/11139384/minnesota-vikings-rick-spielmans-recruitment-key-to-teams-success
I am sure that I read so where that Nigel Clough said he wanted Woodrow back at Burton on loan but that Fulham wanted a lone agreement with a purchase clause - and Burton couldn't do that because of Woodrow's wages....
