No real news here as we discussed at the time of Klines sacking. But worth noting I thought.
Fulham will continue their statistics-based transfer recruitment policy during the January transfer window, despite the sacking of former assistant director of football operations Craig Kline.
Kline left the club last month and has been replaced by James Lovell, who is now the interim assistant director of football operations and will help prepare the club for the transfer window, alongside Tony Khan, Brian Talbot and Slavisa Jokanovic.
During the Fulham Supporters' Trust monthly meeting with senior members of Fulham Football Club, the club confirmed that the club regularly reviews its transfer policy and confirmed that Mr Khan would continue in his current role regarding transfers.
They also confirmed the two-boxes ticket method of signing a player, but insisted that both conventional scouting and data analysis play a part in drawing up a list of around 20 plus players per position that form the initial basis of the Club's recruitment strategy and that it is more like a four-boxes ticked system, taking into account financial inputs and Jokanovic's opinion.
In terms of not having enough data to sign a player, the club used the example of Stefan Johansen, for whom comprehensive SPL analytical data was not available last summer, to illustrate how the process worked in practice.
The club confirmed that the system was flexible enough to allow for the Club to request scouting reports and further analysis on a player, which happened in the case of signing Johansen from Celtic.
Representatives of Fulham also confirmed that the club have implemented a policy not to sign anyone over the age of 28, except at Tony Khan's discretion, which was the case with the signing of Ragnar Sigurdsson last summer.
There was also confirmation that Danny Talbot joined the club from Chesham United as one of a number of several senior club scouts reporting to his father, Brian Talbot, but he is not Fulham's new head of European Scouting as some reports claimed.
I wonder, did anyone address the 'no data on Lge 1/Lge 2' subject which I assume means we do not recruit from those leagues......assuming of course that is all true. I understand that it might not be entirely accurate.
So Kline has left and taken his discredited stats programme with him so we now put our faith in a new Stats Boy with a different but unseen and unused stats programme.
Has the makings of a good satirical TV Programme.
Quote from: ToodlesMcToot on November 21, 2017, 01:36:52 PM
I wonder, did anyone address the 'no data on Lge 1/Lge 2' subject which I assume means we do not recruit from those leagues......assuming of course that is all true. I understand that it might not be entirely accurate.
Yes we did. There is not the full data they want. They do look at leagues below the championship with scouting and the limited data but its more for U23 group. At the moment its fair to say they are not targeting it.
But as mentioned about Johansen its not impossible.
Well, that may clarify a few issue's, or does it?
But doesn't inspire confidence!
Quote from: MJG on November 21, 2017, 01:42:41 PM
Quote from: ToodlesMcToot on November 21, 2017, 01:36:52 PM
I wonder, did anyone address the 'no data on Lge 1/Lge 2' subject which I assume means we do not recruit from those leagues......assuming of course that is all true. I understand that it might not be entirely accurate.
Yes we did. There is not the full data they want. They do look at leagues below the championship with scouting and the limited data but its more for U23 group. At the moment its fair to say they are not targeting it.
But as mentioned about Johansen its not impossible.
I guess to an extent not changing the system makes alot of sense for an easy transition. Its the dogmatic approach to the process which we need to sort out as well as somehow improving our reach. Whoscored for example doesnt focus on Lg1 or Lge 2 so what I imagine is if a scout is watching a u23 player and spots an amazing player then theyll do further checks but we need to ensure we dont let bargains slip through our grasp.
In recent years we have missed out on Lundstram (at the time at oxford their captain at 21) who will probably start against us tonight and was bought for 250k and Callum O'Dowda who tore us apart. This cannot stand and we must ensure we dont miss out on these cheap players. Worth 1.5m between them (or Rui Fonte's left ballsack in current money).
Quote from: MJG on November 21, 2017, 01:42:41 PM
Quote from: ToodlesMcToot on November 21, 2017, 01:36:52 PM
I wonder, did anyone address the 'no data on Lge 1/Lge 2' subject which I assume means we do not recruit from those leagues......assuming of course that is all true. I understand that it might not be entirely accurate.
Yes we did. There is not the full data they want. They do look at leagues below the championship with scouting and the limited data but its more for U23 group. At the moment its fair to say they are not targeting it.
But as mentioned about Johansen its not impossible.
Thanks MJG! I haven't seen the full accounting of the meeting .... if it's even available publicly yet.
I would have hoped the club have methods in place for seriously evaluating talent from the lower leagues. Seemed rather silly to think they avoid that resource altogether. I do find it interesting, in a maddening way, that you're inference is that they don't seem to value it that much.
I understand that there is an emphasis on bringing through our own youth, seemingly now more out of necessity than some sea-change in valuation of those players (That's closer to a dig at the club than at those players, mind you) but, young players coming out of the lower leagues are, IMO, more battle tested and, in ways, more quickly able to make the jump. And, as others have alluded to, there are some who can succeed and impact our league almost from the outset.
Maybe I'm overreacting to something that really should be of little importance. It's likely just frustration at finding - just when I thought we were climbing out of our seasons long hole - that we hadn't fully given up on digging.
Quote from: ToodlesMcToot on November 21, 2017, 02:56:18 PM
that you're inference is that they don't seem to value it that much.
Because the data is incomplete its that simple.
But as I also said they do scout and look at what data there is and if a name came through somewhere they would have a look at that player and call would have to be made.
But that would by the way I understand things be the exception to the rule.
But who is to say the new man in charge of the data wont have other ideas that make that route a possibility?
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on November 21, 2017, 01:53:11 PM
Well, that may clarify a few issue's, or does it?
But doesn't inspire confidence!
My confidence has not been inspired unfortunately, and neither do I think it clarifies any issues to be honest.
In fact it muddies the muddied waters even more.
Quote from: MJG on November 21, 2017, 03:12:43 PM
Quote from: ToodlesMcToot on November 21, 2017, 02:56:18 PM
that you're inference is that they don't seem to value it that much.
Because the data is incomplete its that simple.
But as I also said they do scout and look at what data there is and if a name came through somewhere they would have a look at that player and call would have to be made.
But that would by the way I understand things be the exception to the rule.
But who is to say the new man in charge of the data wont have other ideas that make that route a possibility?
Thanks again!
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on November 21, 2017, 03:15:43 PM
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on November 21, 2017, 01:53:11 PM
Well, that may clarify a few issue's, or does it?
But doesn't inspire confidence!
My confidence has not been inspired unfortunately, and neither do I think it clarifies any issues to be honest.
In fact it muddies the muddied waters even more.
In what whay has it muddied waters even more? I'll try and answer it to clear those waters up.
I am totally opposed to the no over 28´s rule. No wonder we can´t sign players in our price range. There are loads of players aged 29 & 30 that we could easily afford. No way can we expect to buy 23 to 26 year olds within FFP restrictions.
Quote from: grandad on November 21, 2017, 03:54:40 PM
I am totally opposed to the no over 28´s rule. No wonder we can´t sign players in our price range. There are loads of players aged 29 & 30 that we could easily afford. No way can we expect to buy 23 to 26 year olds within FFP restrictions.
I'm not totally opposed to it. As a club that ended up with a lineup of an average age of 33/34 some weeks and with zero sell on value I can see the arguments for it.
But like many things its about balance and while I would not want them to go and spend shed loads on 4 or 5 at that age. One or two would be fine, but anyway I do get the idea of it. Players coming into their peak on long contracts can work both ways for us. They play well or they pay well.
Quote from: grandad on November 21, 2017, 03:54:40 PM
I am totally opposed to the no over 28´s rule. No wonder we can´t sign players in our price range. There are loads of players aged 29 & 30 that we could easily afford. No way can we expect to buy 23 to 26 year olds within FFP restrictions.
We need a mixture. Its wrong to say we cant afford 23-26 year olds within FFP restrictions (Birm bought Jota for circa 5m remember) the problem is that we are missing out on very decent players in that range. Would our season have been better if we bought Jerome (3m), Jota (5m) and Lundstram (250k) over Fonte (9m), Mollo (free) and Norwood (loan)? No way of telling but the squad would certainly look stronger.
The over 28 rule isnt a thing, it just means it needs to be signed off as potentially future resell value deteriorates which is true.
I thought the idea was to sign the right players to get us promoted, whether they are 20 or 30.
Then when and if promotion is achieved, then bring in players to keep us there.
Not every player will have a real sell on value as that depends on their age etc, but bringing in players 28 and under will reduce our prospects severaly, especially ones that take far too long to settle and don't have the appetite for a scrap. We lack experience in certain key positions that someone like Glen Murray would have filled, but of course that was torpedoed by some clown from abroad that couldn't tell the difference between a football and a snowball.
The larger the network of players we can scrutinise as a prospect, in our pyramid the more chance we have of signing the players that we need.
Despite this the club can still rescue the season top 6 wise. But they are going to have to start wising up very quickly on and off the pitch.
Jok needs all the help he can get from Khan Senior, although I shan't hold my breath. Khan Junior should stay out of his way. As for the stats man, I shan't even go there, as it's as nauseating as the MJ Statue.
But most of all the players, his players have to support him 100% and stand up and be counted
or pay the price.
But It has to work both ways, Jok the Manager has to be more flexible and not stick to his favourite system of play for 90 minutes. He cannot be too stubborn, there is more than one way to win a football match.
I expect you all know what a sticky wicket is.
Well currently Jok is batting on one.
So he has to get his sums right also, but he cannot do that without the support and cooperation of his players, assuming they are his players.
I have more faith in Chaka Khan's ability to run the club than the 2 we already have!! "I feel for you""
Talk about extremes,no over 28s ,more worrying macdonald no extension to contract and can see him being sold on as good value.on lower league players ridiculas policy in my opinion,also why is slav ignoring the khan signings with the exception of rui and AK,theres a lot going on behind the scenes.
