How are any of them still employed by the club ? Yes the stats team identify players on a computer but after that somebody has the responsibility of donning a long coat and traipsing off to some far flung place to watch this player for 4 or 5 times,
When Talbot went to watch Kamara and Fonte what did he see that made him think that this player "could do a job for Fulham in the Championship " they aren't even close to what we need , both should constitute a stackable offence and that's without all the others that Jokanovic doesn't even deem good enough to make the side !
Does anybody trust Talbot to get it right in January ? I don't,
2 goalscorers a centre half and a decent midfielder and we could (maybe) just about salvage this season.
As for Millwall , relegation certainties and that wide left player (Ferguson) was one of the worst players I've seen in a long time.
The thing is we don't know what Talbot and his staff are looking for!
If they go only to confirm what the stats are saying rather than allowed to use their own judgement then that's where the problem is!
Crazy as it sounds maybe Talbots job is to verify the checklist he's been given NOT whether the player would be capable in the Championship?
Earwigging two in front of me today,I heard deal under way for Che Adams in January... Wasn't there a whisper on this before?
Totally agree Riversider. Fonte and Kamara are miles off Championship requirements and values paid are well off the mark. Would be best to make a loss in getting rid of both and looking elsewhere in January and maybe listening to our coach's recommendations.
Quote from: Statto on November 25, 2017, 08:40:18 PM
No one knows what the balance of power was between Talbot, Kline, Tony Khan, Mackintosh and Jokanovic, or what are scouting procedures are/were. We were told it was basically a "two ticks" system but I wouldn't be surprised if Kline was the dominant force and some signing decisions were made on stats alone (eg., where it was close season, or the delay of scouting would have scuppered the deal)
Sorry but that's utter nonsense, scouts in football are as football itself, the Riverside stand is full of them for every home match, they will also be at every U23 and U18 match, doubt there has ever been a player signed by anyone that hasn't been previously scouted, otherwise why have a scouting department ?
We've got some of the best scouts in Britain for our juniors but some of the worst for the seniors.
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on November 25, 2017, 08:46:48 PM
Earwigging two in front of me today,I heard deal under way for Che Adams in January... Wasn't there a whisper on this before?
Yep.
Harry Redknapp (17 September): "We turned £10 million down for Che Adams on transfer deadline day from Fulham."
http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/revealed-fulham-failed-deadline-day-13633950
Quote from: Statto on November 25, 2017, 09:11:14 PM
Quote from: Riversider on November 25, 2017, 09:00:36 PM
Quote from: Statto on November 25, 2017, 08:40:18 PM
No one knows what the balance of power was between Talbot, Kline, Tony Khan, Mackintosh and Jokanovic, or what are scouting procedures are/were. We were told it was basically a "two ticks" system but I wouldn't be surprised if Kline was the dominant force and some signing decisions were made on stats alone (eg., where it was close season, or the delay of scouting would have scuppered the deal)
Sorry but that's utter nonsense, scouts in football are as football itself, the Riverside stand is full of them for every home match, they will also be at every U23 and U18 match, doubt there has ever been a player signed by anyone that hasn't been previously scouted, otherwise why have a scouting department ?
We've got some of the best scouts in Britain for our juniors but some of the worst for the seniors.
Ok you win, no club in history has ever had an opportunity to sign a player come up on deadline day and had to do the deal without scouting them, Our scouts are rubbish, Talbot is crap at his job, The world is flat and you are the oracle. I bow to your knowledge and intelligence
Funny isn't it, Kline was to blame couple of weeks ago, his gone so another scapegoat has to be found and it looks like Talbot is the man.
Quote from: alfie on November 25, 2017, 10:49:16 PM
Quote from: Statto on November 25, 2017, 09:11:14 PM
Quote from: Riversider on November 25, 2017, 09:00:36 PM
Quote from: Statto on November 25, 2017, 08:40:18 PM
No one knows what the balance of power was between Talbot, Kline, Tony Khan, Mackintosh and Jokanovic, or what are scouting procedures are/were. We were told it was basically a "two ticks" system but I wouldn't be surprised if Kline was the dominant force and some signing decisions were made on stats alone (eg., where it was close season, or the delay of scouting would have scuppered the deal)
Sorry but that's utter nonsense, scouts in football are as football itself, the Riverside stand is full of them for every home match, they will also be at every U23 and U18 match, doubt there has ever been a player signed by anyone that hasn't been previously scouted, otherwise why have a scouting department ?
We've got some of the best scouts in Britain for our juniors but some of the worst for the seniors.
Ok you win, no club in history has ever had an opportunity to sign a player come up on deadline day and had to do the deal without scouting them, Our scouts are rubbish, Talbot is crap at his job, The world is flat and you are the oracle. I bow to your knowledge and intelligence
Funny isn't it, Kline was to blame couple of weeks ago, his gone so another scapegoat has to be found and it looks like Talbot is the man.
Not a scapegoat at all , just wondered what he has seen in Kamara and Fonte that nobody else has seen ? For their combined cost he must have seen something that he liked.
Quote from: Statto on November 25, 2017, 09:11:14 PM
Quote from: Riversider on November 25, 2017, 09:00:36 PM
Quote from: Statto on November 25, 2017, 08:40:18 PM
No one knows what the balance of power was between Talbot, Kline, Tony Khan, Mackintosh and Jokanovic, or what are scouting procedures are/were. We were told it was basically a "two ticks" system but I wouldn't be surprised if Kline was the dominant force and some signing decisions were made on stats alone (eg., where it was close season, or the delay of scouting would have scuppered the deal)
Sorry but that's utter nonsense, scouts in football are as football itself, the Riverside stand is full of them for every home match, they will also be at every U23 and U18 match, doubt there has ever been a player signed by anyone that hasn't been previously scouted, otherwise why have a scouting department ?
We've got some of the best scouts in Britain for our juniors but some of the worst for the seniors.
Ok you win, no club in history has ever had an opportunity to sign a player come up on deadline day and had to do the deal without scouting them, Our scouts are rubbish, Talbot is crap at his job, The world is flat and you are the oracle. I bow to your knowledge and intelligence
Correct ! What are you struggling to understand ?
No club has ever signed a player that they've never heard of, that's right, an 8 year old would surely understand that.
Quote from: Riversider on November 25, 2017, 09:00:36 PM
Quote from: Statto on November 25, 2017, 08:40:18 PM
No one knows what the balance of power was between Talbot, Kline, Tony Khan, Mackintosh and Jokanovic, or what are scouting procedures are/were. We were told it was basically a "two ticks" system but I wouldn't be surprised if Kline was the dominant force and some signing decisions were made on stats alone (eg., where it was close season, or the delay of scouting would have scuppered the deal)
Sorry but that's utter nonsense, scouts in football are as football itself, the Riverside stand is full of them for every home match, they will also be at every U23 and U18 match, doubt there has ever been a player signed by anyone that hasn't been previously scouted, otherwise why have a scouting department ?
We've got some of the best scouts in Britain for our juniors but some of the worst for the seniors.
Its the seniours who cant spot a player and thats apparent by a mile and they should be fired forthwith!
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on November 25, 2017, 08:46:48 PM
Earwigging two in front of me today,I heard deal under way for Che Adams in January... Wasn't there a whisper on this before?
stop listening to my conversations. 064.gif
It'll be Ali Mac's turn again soon, no doubt.
What a bunch of mugs we must be if we believe Fulham's system of player recruitment and retention is the best we can muster for our coaches and key players in our squad. We have witnessed failures throughout the time Kline, Khan Jnr and others (the recruitment team) have been given what, would seem to my eyes at the very least, is carte blanche to make whatever choices they wish without so much as a nod or a wink from elsewhere. We don't even know what input SJ has had to selection of players to be 'scouted' let alone anything else.
All we know is the evidence of what happens on match days; what tidbits we get from those who claim to be ITK; and what PR the Club chooses to officially release. And, up until the day Kline was sent packing, we don't know the influence/power of statistics has over everything else, and we don't know if that will change in the future. What we do know is that our recruitment policy hasn't exactly had overwhelming success in its lifetime, and many a daft decision has been made. What will it take to change it all around? Another failed window, the day we fail to make promotion to the PL, of the day Khan Snr decides to keep his son up safely back home in the USA. We'd better hope for some brave decisions from within the ranks of the recruitment team before the damage starts to incur even more crazy decisions elsewhere.
I am hoping for an unbeaten run going into 2018 but first we need to ensure we equal our previous best unbeaten run this season by getting something from Griffin Park.
Just a thought, does not joka have a history with imports of not rushing them into first team action.
Quote from: bobby01 on November 26, 2017, 09:09:15 AM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on November 25, 2017, 08:46:48 PM
Earwigging two in front of me today,I heard deal under way for Che Adams in January... Wasn't there a whisper on this before?
stop listening to my conversations. 064.gif
You could have turned round and offered me a wine gum,instead of munching them all yourself.
Talksport reading out the papers,saying Eintracht Frankfurt are after Stefan Johansen.
Quote from: peaty on November 25, 2017, 09:54:03 PM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on November 25, 2017, 08:46:48 PM
Earwigging two in front of me today,I heard deal under way for Che Adams in January... Wasn't there a whisper on this before?
Yep.
Harry Redknapp (17 September): "We turned £10 million down for Che Adams on transfer deadline day from Fulham."
http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/revealed-fulham-failed-deadline-day-13633950
Yet further evidence of the clueless decision makers incompetence.
Not a bad player but £10m would have been ridiculous for a player that would not have been the central striker we need.
Quote from: Statto on November 26, 2017, 12:06:49 PM
Quote from: Riversider on November 25, 2017, 11:07:35 PM
No club has ever signed a player that they've never heard of
Quite right. But imagine this scenario (try not to hurt yourself)...
Kline identifies a player using stats. Talbot has heard of the player but knows little about him. Talbot would obviously like to send one of his full-time scouts to watch the player for 10 games but let's say it's close season, or only a week until the transfer deadline, so he has to rely on some old videos, and reports from freelance scouts. These are patchy and inconclusive; Talbot tells colleagues the player looks decent but nothing special. Kline storms into Talbot's office (possibly wearing nothing but a sumo belt, his eyes wild with rage and spitting as he speaks) and says, "Listen Talbot, I think this player is the next Ronaldo and I'm best mates with the chairman's son, so you'd better have a bloody good reason to veto me." Talbot cannot justify using his veto but expresses his concerns to Tony Khan who, unsurprisingly, proceeds with the transfer based on Kline's advice.
How accontable is Talbot in this scenario, in your opinion?
Even in that built to your view of the world scenario Talbots's team has not delivered a suitable alternative so they have still failed regardless of their input in that scenario.
Quote from: Statto on November 26, 2017, 11:08:24 PM
Quote from: BarryP on November 26, 2017, 08:32:29 PM
Quote from: Statto on November 26, 2017, 12:06:49 PM
Quote from: Riversider on November 25, 2017, 11:07:35 PM
No club has ever signed a player that they've never heard of
Quite right. But imagine this scenario (try not to hurt yourself)...
Kline identifies a player using stats. Talbot has heard of the player but knows little about him. Talbot would obviously like to send one of his full-time scouts to watch the player for 10 games but let's say it's close season, or only a week until the transfer deadline, so he has to rely on some old videos, and reports from freelance scouts. These are patchy and inconclusive; Talbot tells colleagues the player looks decent but nothing special. Kline storms into Talbot's office (possibly wearing nothing but a sumo belt, his eyes wild with rage and spitting as he speaks) and says, "Listen Talbot, I think this player is the next Ronaldo and I'm best mates with the chairman's son, so you'd better have a bloody good reason to veto me." Talbot cannot justify using his veto but expresses his concerns to Tony Khan who, unsurprisingly, proceeds with the transfer based on Kline's advice.
How accontable is Talbot in this scenario, in your opinion?
Even in that built to your view of the world scenario Talbots's team has not delivered a suitable alternative so they have still failed regardless of their input in that scenario.
Is it beyond the reach of your imagination to envisage a similar scenario where they "delivered a suitable alternative" but Khan and/or Kline didn't like it?
:doh: :dead horse:
Keep right on beating your dead horse. Do you realize you've painted a picture that Talbot doesn't have the backbone to not check the box or push for a player the scouts like even if he thinks it's in the best interest of Fulham? I don't think that is true but it is the picture you painted.
With last seasons signings quite a few wanted to give credit to Slavisa and the scouts for all of the successes and blame Kline and company for all those that didn't work out. That is possible but it begs the question of how under the same system can the scouting team be successful one year but share none of the blame the next when it looks like the club has taken a step backward in talent. It's incongruent thinking to put forth such opposing ideas.
It seems far more likely that every aspect of recruitment, including senior level scouting, needs to be examined.
Quote from: BarryP on November 27, 2017, 02:54:38 AM
Quote from: Statto on November 26, 2017, 11:08:24 PM
Quote from: BarryP on November 26, 2017, 08:32:29 PM
Quote from: Statto on November 26, 2017, 12:06:49 PM
Quote from: Riversider on November 25, 2017, 11:07:35 PM
No club has ever signed a player that they've never heard of
Quite right. But imagine this scenario (try not to hurt yourself)...
Kline identifies a player using stats. Talbot has heard of the player but knows little about him. Talbot would obviously like to send one of his full-time scouts to watch the player for 10 games but let's say it's close season, or only a week until the transfer deadline, so he has to rely on some old videos, and reports from freelance scouts. These are patchy and inconclusive; Talbot tells colleagues the player looks decent but nothing special. Kline storms into Talbot's office (possibly wearing nothing but a sumo belt, his eyes wild with rage and spitting as he speaks) and says, "Listen Talbot, I think this player is the next Ronaldo and I'm best mates with the chairman's son, so you'd better have a bloody good reason to veto me." Talbot cannot justify using his veto but expresses his concerns to Tony Khan who, unsurprisingly, proceeds with the transfer based on Kline's advice.
How accontable is Talbot in this scenario, in your opinion?
Even in that built to your view of the world scenario Talbots's team has not delivered a suitable alternative so they have still failed regardless of their input in that scenario.
Is it beyond the reach of your imagination to envisage a similar scenario where they "delivered a suitable alternative" but Khan and/or Kline didn't like it?
:doh: :dead horse:
Keep right on beating your dead horse. Do you realize you've painted a picture that Talbot doesn't have the backbone to not check the box or push for a player the scouts like even if he thinks it's in the best interest of Fulham? I don't think that is true but it is the picture you painted.
With last seasons signings quite a few wanted to give credit to Slavisa and the scouts for all of the successes and blame Kline and company for all those that didn't work out. That is possible but it begs the question of how under the same system can the scouting team be successful one year but share none of the blame the next when it looks like the club has taken a step backward in talent. It's incongruent thinking to put forth such opposing ideas.
It seems far more likely that every aspect of recruitment, including senior level scouting, needs to be examined.
Not only does the aspect of recruitment need examining, it needs to be dissected from every angle. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. How many new recruits start in the first team and actually last 90 minutes, answers on a postcard.
No wait a minute, I shall answer that for you, only 2, Ojo and Norwood, and how many times has that happened.
You can probably count on a couple of fingers. Some have never started.
That's how unsuccessful the policy is.
The whole issue is a farce and a recipe for disaster.
We have better players in the Academy.
At the very least keep the Chairman's son away from interfering with the football professionals he is nowhere near qualified to be in the same room as them.
What exactly does he know about football that they don't.
they the seniuor scouts in the words of sugar.should be YOUR FIRED!
There are people on this forum who could have done a better job with the recruitment in the summer.
Quote from: Jims Dentist on November 30, 2017, 06:45:05 PM
There are people on this forum who could have done a better job with the recruitment in the summer.
There are many on here who THINK they could have done better.
Quote from: YankeeJim on November 30, 2017, 07:41:53 PM
Quote from: Jims Dentist on November 30, 2017, 06:45:05 PM
There are people on this forum who could have done a better job with the recruitment in the summer.
There are many on here who THINK they could have done better.
It was widely known that Norwood and Ojo were available on loan before we got them.
As for the other incomings and the ridiculous fees paid, it would be very hard to do a worse job than was done with the recent recruitment.
Quote from: Jims Dentist on November 30, 2017, 08:21:47 PM
Quote from: YankeeJim on November 30, 2017, 07:41:53 PM
Quote from: Jims Dentist on November 30, 2017, 06:45:05 PM
There are people on this forum who could have done a better job with the recruitment in the summer.
There are many on here who THINK they could have done better.
It was widely known that Norwood and Ojo were available on loan before we got them.
As for the other incomings and the ridiculous fees paid, it would be very hard to do a worse job than was done with the recent recruitment.
There are also many on here who KNOW they can do a better job.
It's not rocket science, although coaches and pundits would like you to think nobody else knows better than them.
Smoke and Mirrors.
Bet Forrest never had all this trouble when Clough was in charge, those were the days .
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on November 26, 2017, 01:15:27 PM
Talksport reading out the papers,saying Eintracht Frankfurt are after Stefan Johansen.
Hands off! We need to keep him and get him back to his best form if we're going to move up the table.
If we signed everyone who has been suggested by the "scouts" on this board we would have a squad of about 400!
We do seem to have a problem making big signings - Marlet, Johnson, Ruiz - which go back way beyond Kline and his software. And other players as well for a lot less money. Is it just us that make mostly crap signings or just the way we look at it.
Remember Souness and George Weah's cousin?? If anything this backs up the need to look at players for many games before buying but then many clubs may be looking at the same players so perhaps the powers that be make panic buys and hope they come off, Mitroglu being the absolute classic Fulham cock up.
