Thoughts ?
Not based on the performance yesterday (bit of problems with going for the same balls as Christie, might still think like a FB at times), but I don't worry if Odoi starts. Think Odoi is better at CB than LB in our system though.
Athletically, yes. Positionally, no.
I think he's a great player, but he's not a permenany CB. I prefer him as a sub, a LB, or defensive midfielder/sweeper role.
Glad we have both of them. To my eyes Kalas is the best centre back at the club.
Having watched the 90 mins he certainly saved 2 cert goal chances. No complaints from me. This was the first time he & Christie played together so there was bound to be the odd misunderstanding.
Kalas... has almost dipped in performance and then plateuaxed at the 70-80% bracket compared to his first season.
Both are good players but Kalas is the natural CB. I would play him personally. Odoi natural sub cover for entire back line.
At times yesterday the defence were a panicking mess. Irrespective of which player people think is better (for the record I prefer Kalas ) I find it difficult to believe that a case should be put forward for Odoi.
Big fan of Kalas, our most underrated player
He is not.
Odoi was dreadful first half yesterday. Good second half, sure, but he is not a centre-back and should only play there in an emergency.
Quote from: F(f)CUK on February 22, 2018, 07:28:31 PM
At times yesterday the defence were a panicking mess. Irrespective of which player people think is better (for the record I prefer Kalas ) I find it difficult to believe that a case should be put forward for Odoi.
Hardly surprising when 2 changes have been made to a defence that has been very good in the last couple of months, better not start the team selection debate again (lol)!
Quote from: davew on February 22, 2018, 09:15:01 PM
Quote from: F(f)CUK on February 22, 2018, 07:28:31 PM
At times yesterday the defence were a panicking mess. Irrespective of which player people think is better (for the record I prefer Kalas ) I find it difficult to believe that a case should be put forward for Odoi.
Hardly surprising when 2 changes have been made to a defence that has been very good in the last couple of months, better not start the team selection debate again (lol)!
Agreed. Kalas and Ream have been very very effective as a pair over several months. Perhaps if Odoi and Ream had played 20+ games together and Kalas was the guy coming in new last night, the arguments would be the same but with names transposed.
Quote from: Southcoastffc on February 22, 2018, 09:27:08 PM
Quote from: davew on February 22, 2018, 09:15:01 PM
Quote from: F(f)CUK on February 22, 2018, 07:28:31 PM
At times yesterday the defence were a panicking mess. Irrespective of which player people think is better (for the record I prefer Kalas ) I find it difficult to believe that a case should be put forward for Odoi.
Hardly surprising when 2 changes have been made to a defence that has been very good in the last couple of months, better not start the team selection debate again (lol)!
Agreed. Kalas and Ream have been very very effective as a pair over several months. Perhaps if Odoi and Ream had played 20+ games together and Kalas was the guy coming in new last night, the arguments would be the same but with names transposed.
Quite likely I would have thought.
Odoi, being able to play in any back four position as well as the defensive midfield position, is of great value as cover on the bench.
Like goalkeepers, when defenders make mistakes in important situations they can be responsible for goals being conceded. They tend to then get a lot more blame than a forward who has just missed a good opportunity to score. I think that's the context of the way Kalas is perhaps being viewed by some on this forum.
I really like Dennis and think he has played really well this season, and can consider himself unlucky not to have had more pitch time, especially when Sess was being played at left back. But I have been pleasantly surprised to see the support for Kalas on this thread. I was getting the impression that most were feeling he had not been playing well. I like his positional play and I think the centre back pairing with Ream has generally worked well this year. I also think he is very good in the air (as is Dennis) and is also very quick for a centre half, an asset that becomes increasingly important the higher the standard of the opposition.
So my preferred pairing is Kalas Ream, and I hope Kalas was either rested or rotated rather than dropped, because I thought he played well against Villa. But I am also happy with Dennis in our team: versatile, quick and talented. - what is there not to like.
Quote from: Carborundum on February 22, 2018, 04:49:08 PM
Glad we have both of them. To my eyes Kalas is the best centre back at the club.
Better than Ream?
My own thoughts begin with what kinds of player fit into our preferred coaching style and what that may mean were the day ever to arrive when our recruiters delivered exactly to SJ's specification. Every player in the side has to have more than one string to their bow and in defence that means players who are good defenders, good markers, good tacklers, good headers, good readers, good raiders, and good passers. In other words they need to be very fit and also fit into the team ethic - attacking from the goalkeeper and defending from the main striker. Since all players will have flaws to their game, and make mistakes at least some of the time, it becomes a question of best team partnerships. Who reads what their team mates are up to best? I think I'd have great trouble in separating Kalas and Odoi on current form and so I'd leave it to more capable eyes to take the pressure for choice off me.
Quote from: Stefan The Viking (The Moose) on February 22, 2018, 11:19:14 PM
Quote from: Carborundum on February 22, 2018, 04:49:08 PM
Glad we have both of them. To my eyes Kalas is the best centre back at the club.
Better than Ream?
Good question. Who is the most calm under intense pressure?
I don't really want to enter the debate about whether or not Odoi is better than Kalas - I presume Kalas is still the manager's first choice for the role -
but he, and the rest of the Fulham defence, including keeper, and two players who'd never played together before, one of whom was making his Fulham debut, performed heroics the other night in keeping Bristol down to the one goal, which may have been from a bit of a poor clearance under pressure.
But I thought the defence did great, as they have been recently - how important to us is Ream?!!!!
Listened to the commentary on 721 and he sounded always involved defensively and made two goal saving interventions. Didn't let us down.
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Bit difficult to compare the two. Since Dennis doesn't get the game time. He also suffers the fate of all utility players. He can play anywhere across the back so is deemed not as good as a player who is, say a confirmed left back for instance.
I like the guy, shame he doesn't get more game time.
Quote from: Stefan The Viking (The Moose) on February 22, 2018, 11:19:14 PM
Quote from: Carborundum on February 22, 2018, 04:49:08 PM
Glad we have both of them. To my eyes Kalas is the best centre back at the club.
Better than Ream?
Yes. Why? I think he's a better defender. Ream might be better at bringing the ball out, but all the teams above us have conceded at least five fewer goals. So I'm prizing defensive clout and athleticism. Also I can't imagine Chelsea offering a deal to a player with Ream's characteristics. But there's one other piece of evidence and it comes from people who are far better judges than me. Opposition forwards tend to drift towards being marked by Ream. Hat trick Harry Kane being a prime example.
Quote from: Carborundum on February 23, 2018, 12:19:20 PM
Quote from: Stefan The Viking (The Moose) on February 22, 2018, 11:19:14 PM
Quote from: Carborundum on February 22, 2018, 04:49:08 PM
Glad we have both of them. To my eyes Kalas is the best centre back at the club.
Better than Ream?
Yes. Why? I think he's a better defender. Ream might be better at bringing the ball out, but all the teams above us have conceded at least five fewer goals. So I'm prizing defensive clout and athleticism. Also I can't imagine Chelsea offering a deal to a player with Ream's characteristics. But there's one other piece of evidence and it comes from people who are far better judges than me. Opposition forwards tend to drift towards being marked by Ream. Hat trick Harry Kane being a prime example.
I would say that Ream is more consistent and more solid. He's very very reliable this past 12 months. For me he's our best centre back in terms of performances.
Quote from: Stefan The Viking (The Moose) on February 23, 2018, 02:00:37 PM
Quote from: Carborundum on February 23, 2018, 12:19:20 PM
Quote from: Stefan The Viking (The Moose) on February 22, 2018, 11:19:14 PM
Quote from: Carborundum on February 22, 2018, 04:49:08 PM
Glad we have both of them. To my eyes Kalas is the best centre back at the club.
Better than Ream?
Yes. Why? I think he's a better defender. Ream might be better at bringing the ball out, but all the teams above us have conceded at least five fewer goals. So I'm prizing defensive clout and athleticism. Also I can't imagine Chelsea offering a deal to a player with Ream's characteristics. But there's one other piece of evidence and it comes from people who are far better judges than me. Opposition forwards tend to drift towards being marked by Ream. Hat trick Harry Kane being a prime example.
I would say that Ream is more consistent and more solid. He's very very reliable this past 12 months. For me he's our best centre back in terms of performances.
Fair enough. It's great that as a partnership they have been such an improvement on the chaos we endured for years. Get promoted, sign Kalas and watch them make the debate as irrelevant as Hughes v Hangeland: which one was better.
A man can dream.
(It was Hughes)
Quote from: Carborundum on February 23, 2018, 06:10:15 PM
Quote from: Stefan The Viking (The Moose) on February 23, 2018, 02:00:37 PM
Quote from: Carborundum on February 23, 2018, 12:19:20 PM
Quote from: Stefan The Viking (The Moose) on February 22, 2018, 11:19:14 PM
Quote from: Carborundum on February 22, 2018, 04:49:08 PM
Glad we have both of them. To my eyes Kalas is the best centre back at the club.
Better than Ream?
Yes. Why? I think he's a better defender. Ream might be better at bringing the ball out, but all the teams above us have conceded at least five fewer goals. So I'm prizing defensive clout and athleticism. Also I can't imagine Chelsea offering a deal to a player with Ream's characteristics. But there's one other piece of evidence and it comes from people who are far better judges than me. Opposition for wards tend to drift towards being marked by Ream. Hat trick Harry Kane being a prime example.
I would say that Ream is more consistent and more solid. He's very very reliable this past 12 months. For me he's our best centre back in terms of performances.
Fair enough. It's great that as a partnership they have been such an improvement on the chaos we endured for years. Get promoted, sign Kalas and watch them make the debate as irrelevant as Hughes v Hangeland: which one was better.
A man can dream.
(It was Hughes)
Ream and Kalas is the best centre back pairing since Hangeland and Hughes, they come as a pair.
Quote from: Carborundum on February 23, 2018, 06:10:15 PM
Quote from: Stefan The Viking (The Moose) on February 23, 2018, 02:00:37 PM
Quote from: Carborundum on February 23, 2018, 12:19:20 PM
Quote from: Stefan The Viking (The Moose) on February 22, 2018, 11:19:14 PM
Quote from: Carborundum on February 22, 2018, 04:49:08 PM
Glad we have both of them. To my eyes Kalas is the best centre back at the club.
Better than Ream?
Yes. Why? I think he's a better defender. Ream might be better at bringing the ball out, but all the teams above us have conceded at least five fewer goals. So I'm prizing defensive clout and athleticism. Also I can't imagine Chelsea offering a deal to a player with Ream's characteristics. But there's one other piece of evidence and it comes from people who are far better judges than me. Opposition forwards tend to drift towards being marked by Ream. Hat trick Harry Kane being a prime example.
I would say that Ream is more consistent and more solid. He's very very reliable this past 12 months. For me he's our best centre back in terms of performances.
Fair enough. It's great that as a partnership they have been such an improvement on the chaos we endured for years. Get promoted, sign Kalas and watch them make the debate as irrelevant as Hughes v Hangeland: which one was better.
A man can dream.
(It was Hughes)
Agreed, Hughes the better reader of the game.
Hughes class and hangeland looked class thanks to hughes
