I sit in the JH Stand which us clearly a non smoking area.
Last Saturday I became conscious of a cloud of smoke wafting in my direction. Above the noise I called out to ask who was smoking and someone a few seats away in the row in front of me owned up.
He then said that he was Vaping and not smoking and said he thought that was allowed.
Perhaps I Should have told a steward, but I emailed the Club today and they confirmed that Vaping was included in the ban.
It did say that H&S and the stewards would be looking out,more closely.
Understand it is banned as it looks like smoking- the vapour being harmless to others.
Yes it is banned although for the life of me I cannot think why it is considered a Health & Safety concern. It is no more dangerous than sniffing a hot cup of tea since it is steam (hot moisture) and you wouldn't even necessarily see it in warmer weather. But rules are rules, at least off the pitch, I guess.
Quote from: west kowloon white on February 22, 2018, 05:37:32 PM
Understand it is banned as it looks like smoking- the vapour being harmless to others.
Certainly less harmful for you health but don't be fooled into thinking e-cigs are without risks!
The jury's still out.
Best to be consistent - and it still stinks even if it isn't as poisonous.
Where's the bloke with the pipe from the front of the Hammersmith end these days?
Theres one in the Hammy near us sometimes - What a stink! Looks like a steam train so csnnot understand how stewards don't see it.
The BBC campaign has resulted in a few prejudices- must have lost my sense of smell too.
Quote from: toshes mate on February 22, 2018, 05:54:29 PM
Yes it is banned although for the life of me I cannot think why it is considered a Health & Safety concern. It is no more dangerous than sniffing a hot cup of tea since it is steam (hot moisture) and you wouldn't even necessarily see it in warmer weather. But rules are rules, at least off the pitch, I guess.
When you use an e-cigarette, or vape, those vapors you exhale don't just magically disappear. Secondhand vapors are very much a thing, and they're not healthy for anyone around you to breathe, especially young children.
While vaping is considered to be somewhat healthier than smoking regular cigarettes—because you're not coating your lungs in carcinogenic tar—it's still not a "healthy" practice by any means. The aerosol you breathe in when you use an e-cigarette contains harmful chemicals and ultrafine particles you can inhale deep into your lungs. Diacetyle, benzene, nickel, tin, and lead are just some of the things found in e-cigarette vapors. And scientists are still trying to determine the health effects of other potentially harmful chemicals in e-cigarette fluid, as well as how they react when turned into aerosol via intense heat. Plus, e-cigarettes contain nicotine, which is still highly addictive no matter how you intake it.
Now, if you want to use an e-cigarette, that's completely up to you. It's your health and you can use or abuse it however you like. What's problematic is e-cigarette and vape users don't seem to realize those vapors are still breathable after they're exhaled. Much like secondhand smoke, secondhand vapors are a concern for everyone around a user, even if the vapor is less visible than traditional cigarette smoke.
I think the fat in the pies and the salt in the Bovril are also detrimental to health, dangerous this football supporting lark
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on February 22, 2018, 08:56:38 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on February 22, 2018, 05:54:29 PM
Yes it is banned although for the life of me I cannot think why it is considered a Health & Safety concern. It is no more dangerous than sniffing a hot cup of tea since it is steam (hot moisture) and you wouldn't even necessarily see it in warmer weather. But rules are rules, at least off the pitch, I guess.
When you use an e-cigarette, or vape, those vapors you exhale don't just magically disappear. Secondhand vapors are very much a thing, and they're not healthy for anyone around you to breathe, especially young children.
While vaping is considered to be somewhat healthier than smoking regular cigarettes—because you're not coating your lungs in carcinogenic tar—it's still not a "healthy" practice by any means. The aerosol you breathe in when you use an e-cigarette contains harmful chemicals and ultrafine particles you can inhale deep into your lungs. Diacetyle, benzene, nickel, tin, and lead are just some of the things found in e-cigarette vapors. And scientists are still trying to determine the health effects of other potentially harmful chemicals in e-cigarette fluid, as well as how they react when turned into aerosol via intense heat. Plus, e-cigarettes contain nicotine, which is still highly addictive no matter how you intake it.
Now, if you want to use an e-cigarette, that's completely up to you. It's your health and you can use or abuse it however you like. What's problematic is e-cigarette and vape users don't seem to realize those vapors are still breathable after they're exhaled. Much like secondhand smoke, secondhand vapors are a concern for everyone around a user, even if the vapor is less visible than traditional cigarette smoke.
Now that is an impressively comprehensive summary.
I think we are missing the point.
Smoking of any kind in that old timber stand must present a fire risk, please, for all our sakes report anyone seen lighting up.
Quote from: filham on February 22, 2018, 10:19:07 PM
I think we are missing the point.
Smoking of any kind in that old timber stand must present a fire risk, please, for all our sakes report anyone seen lighting up.
do you know what vaping is?
So what about the car we all drive around all day. If we worried about everything we breathed in we would never go anywhere. I think the way we treat smokers and vipers is terrible. I think we should open the back of the stadium at half time and let them out then they wouldn't block the toilets so nobody could use them
Quote from: Andy S on February 22, 2018, 11:05:41 PM
So what about the car we all drive around all day. If we worried about everything we breathed in we would never go anywhere. I think the way we treat smokers and vipers is terrible. I think we should open the back of the stadium at half time and let them out then they wouldn't block the toilets so nobody could use them
So why don't smokers clamp their lips around car exhaust pipes ? It would save them a lot of money and save non smokers from breathing the foul air in , Smoking is a disgusting habit , ban it !
It's partly about respecting the people you are sat near. It's not like being in a pub, or on a street or anywhere else where you can freely move around.
I have been vaping for 4 years now after a lifetime of tobacco. I can certainly say my health has never been so good. No cough, breathing excellent, no smelly breath or clothes. No dirty ash trays. Rarely get a cold. So much cheaper. The fluid only costs me €3 a week.
However I do refrain from vaping in environments where there are people who might be irritated by the vapour.
I would ask that in the same environments people next to me stop breathing as I do not want to breathe second hand air. This can be easily noticed on very cold days but not on warm ones, but it is still there.
Maybe if the club let vaping happen some people may think they can get away with a cheeky fag which would be hidden amongst the vaping smoke. Watching Fulham should come with a health warning all by itself!
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on February 22, 2018, 08:56:38 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on February 22, 2018, 05:54:29 PM
Yes it is banned although for the life of me I cannot think why it is considered a Health & Safety concern. It is no more dangerous than sniffing a hot cup of tea since it is steam (hot moisture) and you wouldn't even necessarily see it in warmer weather. But rules are rules, at least off the pitch, I guess.
When you use an e-cigarette, or vape, those vapors you exhale don't just magically disappear. Secondhand vapors are very much a thing, and they're not healthy for anyone around you to breathe, especially young children.
Smoke is heavier than water vapour, the latter naturally rising in air on all but the driest days. The air in London is already filled with pollutants from motor vehicles, industrial waste and incinerators etc., and those pollutants are heavy and tend to stick around you regardless of how high they are released. Vape exhaust isn't heavy and isn't in the same dangerous league as these toxins and to suggest otherwise is nonsense. Secondary (cigarette smoke) smoking has failed to be proven in all the largest surveys the WHO has carried out simply because there are so many other factors which also need to be considered like the toxins in traffic fumes which are also real killers. However, if you asked me if it is good for a child to see someone vaping then I'd say 'probably not', and then we get into a completely different debate about personal rights and responsibilities.
Quote from: Andy S on February 22, 2018, 11:05:41 PM
So what about the car we all drive around all day. If we worried about everything we breathed in we would never go anywhere. I think the way we treat smokers and vipers is terrible. I think we should open the back of the stadium at half time and let them out then they wouldn't block the toilets so nobody could use them
Vipers - brilliant!
I think vaping will prove to be more harmful than is currently thought. There's a huge profit to made from this new habit, seen as a healthy option compared to smoking, and thus huge vested interests in saying it's harmless.
I'm am an ex-smoker. It doesn't bother me to sit near a vaper, or even a smoker, but I can see vaping as becoming more highly regulated in the furture, and it not being seen as so harmless - to consumers and those around them.
Well I will surely be taking a glove of Garlic and a wooden steak to the game. im not getting bitten by anyone
Quote from: cookieg on February 23, 2018, 08:37:45 AM
Maybe if the club let vaping happen some people may think they can get away with a cheeky fag which would be hidden amongst the vaping smoke.
Vapour and smoke are two different things. You give off vapour (which may or may not be harmful to others) every time you breathe. Should you come with a health warning.....
Available in most pharmacies in this country?
It seems everyone thinks that the stuff released from e-cigarettes is purely steam - this cannot be the case as people who regularly vape in their cars can get a film of residue on the inside of the glass that needs to be wiped off. Nobody can convince me that that is good for the lungs.
There is no smoke without fire.
Quote from: Holders on February 23, 2018, 09:13:13 AM
Quote from: Andy S on February 22, 2018, 11:05:41 PM
So what about the car we all drive around all day. If we worried about everything we breathed in we would never go anywhere. I think the way we treat smokers and vipers is terrible. I think we should open the back of the stadium at half time and let them out then they wouldn't block the toilets so nobody could use them
Vipers - brilliant!
A Viper is poisonous and deadly...........like cancer sticks that are also known as cigarettes by the unsuspecting consumer.
It has a wide head and a stocky body........a little like some of these individuals that tar their lungs.
Longed hinged fangs at the front of the mouth for injecting venom.....a bit like the tiny minority who support this filthy habit.
Then again, every man to his own trade, providing he does it away from me, like in a cave.
As I said before I am a vaper. However I do not like the kits that create the huge clouds similar to a steam train. I regulate my equipment to replicate the volume to that which is produced from a cigarette. I have visited some vape cafes & you can hardly see the back of the cafe from the front door. This is not the way to vape. Apart from the huge amounts of liquid it consumes it is anti social. is done among non smokers. I will continue my sensible vaping. I will not be costing health service providers with smoking related illnesses. If every tobacco smoker turned to vaping the savings to the health services would be huge. The tobacco lobby would not like the fall in their profits & the Government would not like the fall in the tax & duty they receive.
Quote from: Jamie88 on February 23, 2018, 09:41:57 AM
It seems everyone thinks that the stuff released from e-cigarettes is purely steam - this cannot be the case as people who regularly vape in their cars can get a film of residue on the inside of the glass that needs to be wiped off. Nobody can convince me that that is good for the lungs.
Mmm, the film appears on the inside of every windscreen ever made by virtue of (i) traffic fumes which are both unavoidable and everywhere inside a vehicle before you even set off on a journey; (ii) residue from whatever cleaner you may use to wipe the inside of the windscreen unless you use only distilled water with a tiny amount of pure, unadulterated, alcohol (your windscreen will stay absolutely clear for a matter of minutes); and (iii) from dust that accumulates in the vapour you breathe out since it has no means of rising and escaping from the car as it will naturally do if you are in a convertible with the roof down.
I absolutely detest smoking and this vaping malarky. With the latter a user looks to have their head on fire they are enveloped in so much smoke. If there is an old film on tv (Freeview 81) everybody is lighting up all the time! Horrendous habit!
Thank you and goodnight
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Smoking is a dying habit.
A bloke I use to work with told me it's easy to give up smoking, he has done it hundreds of times.
When my wife starts smoking, I slow down and use a lubricant.
Vaping.
Perfectly safe. No need to worry.
You know you can rely on your friendly manufacturer not to mislead you on such matters.
This is what we were being told in the 50s:
(https://envisioningtheamericandream.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/smoking-babys-drs.jpg)
You can't go wrong with a doctor's recommendation and your new-born child will certainly appreciate your sophisticated choice (although I can't say the baby looks too lively).
I have done a literature review on this a few years ago as part of my medical degree and can confirm at the time dangerous carcinogens in the smoke exhaled were nil to trace amounts. I.e. not harmful to those around them.
There are obvious benefits as a result for current smokers using them. Recently a major medical body called for them to be available on the NHS.
Alarming features are that with different flavours and so called "vape" shops/cafes becoming more prominent on high streets that smoking seems to be becoming cool again. Hence more young people taking it up alongside current smokers.
Further, the lack of regulation currently means there have been numerous reports of devices setting fire and exploding in peoples mouths which is obviously a huge concern. Hence the general feeling I had was they would be a force for good if under stricter manufacturing and advertising controls.
That said... I am of the opinion no one should have to choke on watermelon flavoured air while watching a game. They should be banned along with cigarettes in the ground. Highly inconsiderate.
Quote from: toshes mate on February 23, 2018, 09:39:10 AM
Quote from: cookieg on February 23, 2018, 08:37:45 AM
Maybe if the club let vaping happen some people may think they can get away with a cheeky fag which would be hidden amongst the vaping smoke.
Vapour and smoke are two different things. You give off vapour (which may or may not be harmful to others) every time you breathe. Should you come with a health warning.....
After a few pints before the game absolutely!!
My point being that, being a non-smoker, smoke and steam look the same from a distance.
Quote from: toshes mate on February 23, 2018, 10:54:43 AM
Quote from: Jamie88 on February 23, 2018, 09:41:57 AM
It seems everyone thinks that the stuff released from e-cigarettes is purely steam - this cannot be the case as people who regularly vape in their cars can get a film of residue on the inside of the glass that needs to be wiped off. Nobody can convince me that that is good for the lungs.
Mmm, the film appears on the inside of every windscreen ever made by virtue of (i) traffic fumes which are both unavoidable and everywhere inside a vehicle before you even set off on a journey; (ii) residue from whatever cleaner you may use to wipe the inside of the windscreen unless you use only distilled water with a tiny amount of pure, unadulterated, alcohol (your windscreen will stay absolutely clear for a matter of minutes); and (iii) from dust that accumulates in the vapour you breathe out since it has no means of rising and escaping from the car as it will naturally do if you are in a convertible with the roof down.
Nope, you're just plain wrong. Vaping inside cars frequently without ventilation causes an oily residue to form on the inside of the glass. Never have I set off for a journey and had to wipe off an oily substance from my windscreen. It sounds like you are getting condensation mixed up with the stuff released from e-cigarettes somehow.
It's all smoke and mirrors to me.
Quote from: fulhamben on February 22, 2018, 10:24:53 PM
Quote from: filham on February 22, 2018, 10:19:07 PM
I think we are missing the point.
Smoking of any kind in that old timber stand must present a fire risk, please, for all our sakes report anyone seen lighting up.
do you know what vaping is?
I think it is electrically creating a vapour to inhale. I assume the electrical energy is used to create heat and must present a fire risk, am I wrong.
When vaping a tiny droplet of water based liquid is instantly heated up as you inhale and released into your mouth as 'flavoured' steam. The devices I have seen and used never get hot to the touch but there appear to be an infinite variety of models available now. I didn't find it a rewarding experience although it is clearly preferable to smoking.
Quote from: filham on February 23, 2018, 06:59:09 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on February 22, 2018, 10:24:53 PM
Quote from: filham on February 22, 2018, 10:19:07 PM
I think we are missing the point.
Smoking of any kind in that old timber stand must present a fire risk, please, for all our sakes report anyone seen lighting up.
do you know what vaping is?
I think it is electrically creating a vapour to inhale. I assume the electrical energy is used to create heat and must present a fire risk, am I wrong.
I'd be more worried about a mobile phone starting a fire than I would be starting one from a vape. No exposed parts get remotely hot
Quote from: fulhamben on February 23, 2018, 08:01:42 PM
Quote from: filham on February 23, 2018, 06:59:09 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on February 22, 2018, 10:24:53 PM
Quote from: filham on February 22, 2018, 10:19:07 PM
I think we are missing the point.
Smoking of any kind in that old timber stand must present a fire risk, please, for all our sakes report anyone seen lighting up.
do you know what vaping is?
I think it is electrically creating a vapour to inhale. I assume the electrical energy is used to create heat and must present a fire risk, am I wrong.
I'd be more worried about a mobile phone starting a fire than I would be starting one from a vape. No exposed parts get remotely hot
OK looks as if I should stand corrected.
Perhaps we could instead ban mobile phones they can be a nuisance as well.
As an ex-smoker, who has never vaped, I just don't believe it's as harmless as they say to those who do it, even if it is for others in the vicinity.
How can it be harmless, if it can replace the all toxic chemicals in cigarette smoke and give a satisfying hit to the smoker?
Smokers have spent a fortune on gum and patches over the years, which, let's face it, does little to replace smoking an actual fag, and now vaping comes along, and smokers are happy to give up their fags for it.
I just don't believe it's as harmless as they say.
Quote from: RaySmith on February 24, 2018, 01:14:23 AM
Smokers have spent a fortune on gum and patches over the years, which, let's face it, does little to replace smoking an actual fag, and now vaping comes along, and smokers are happy to give up their fags for it.
No smokers I know have given up fags for vaping but do use it where smoking has been banned (i.e just about everywhere) in social situations which suggests that psychologically smoking may have been doing a lot more good than harm for those individual who used the habit socially. Likewise vaping has become social but has none of the effects of tobacco smoke and none of the toxins contained in all smoke (e,g. combustion and car exhaust fumes, fireworks, fires generally etc) since there is no fire or high temperature involved. Put your head over a bowl of menthol and peppermint oil drops in hot water and you'll achieve the same product. The evidence to date is minimal harm even when continuously done for several hours.
