Alistair Mackintosh has to get his proverbial finger out of his backside and resist all attempts to plunder our talent, including Fredericks, Sessengnon, Mitrovic and our much coveted manager Jokanovic.
The news that West Ham, Liverpool and Chelsea may knobble our new baptism in the Premier League must be robustly countered.
If the Hammers are offering Fredericks £6million, Fulham should offer 7. Fredericks is a vital part of Fulham's style and a MUST to retain. I believe Tottenham dropped a major clanger losing him and preferring the accident-prone Walker and then the naiive tattoo-laden Trippier; Fredericks will be in the next England tournament as number one right back in the country!
Mitrovic revived our season and fits in with his Serbian manager - Fulham needed a physical target man and now we are up we cannot lose him.
Sess should stay at the club which gave him his big chance, and even £50million is not enough for someone this talented.
Our manager has insisted on this playing style, passing the ball out from the back therefore retaining possession and some intricate triangles and give and go to create attacks. Indeed I would say, this is the BEST Fulham I have ever seen!!
Now we are in the PL we have no reason to accept money for any player we wish to keep. Our owner can buy the likes of Gold, Sullivan & the ghastly Karen Brady ten times over.
We also have escaped the harmful clutches of FFP and will receive over £200 million by merely staying up one season. And one should not fall into the trap of hovering around the bottom.
There is absolutely no reason Fulham cannot outbid other clubs and dissuade them. Only if Ali Mack has learned NOTHING from his incompetance which added to Fulham's demise under Magath.
Welcome to inflation as is standard in the top division. We should welcome it and be proactive towards our precious assets, not reactive as one is seeing at the moment.
:plus one: 049:gif :wine:
Sorry but stopped reading after assessment of Fredericks. If you think he is Englands next right back you know nothing about defending. Great going forward but defending is first priority and often loses his man in the penalty area. 075.gif
Quote from: sarnian on June 04, 2018, 05:15:41 PM
Sorry but stopped reading after assessment of Fredericks. If you think he is Englands next right back you know nothing about defending. Great going forward but defending is first priority and often loses his man in the penalty area. 075.gif
Have you seen Walker and Trippier ever?? Walker almost single-hanedly got Man.City knocked out by Liverpool in Champs' League - he did a Karius before Karius!
Feels hyperbolic. Fredericks is good but if he was THAT good then you'd have better teams than West Ham and Palace fighting with us over him.
Perhaps you are missing the point; how can West Ham pinch one of Fulham's best players when we have a multi-billionaire owner? It's like a hostile takeover of General Motors done by Skoda!
Quote from: Nick Bateman on June 04, 2018, 05:41:17 PM
Perhaps you are missing the point; how can West Ham pinch one of Fulham's best players when we have a multi-billionaire owner? It's like a hostile takeover of General Motors done by Skoda!
Because the board don't think that fredericks is worth more than Tom Cairney and therefore aren't prepared to make him the highest paid player. I'd agree with them.
The board being Alistair Mackintosh who knows as much about football as I do on one fingernail. Cairney is on a Championship salary, that amount is well below the average of top stars in the PL.
I say make Fredericks the highest paid to encourage him to sign, or at least offer more then West Ham!!?? Then once services secured raise the wages of other stars in our squad accordingly. I am frankly SICK of this penny-pinching as soon as we hit the big time again - that's what got Fulham relegated last time!!
Fredericks is largely untested at the top level, so it's too early to say how he compares to the likes of Walker and Trippier. Where he clearly falls down is his temperament, he needs to control his temper better.
If he has a good season then there's no reason he can't break into the England team, but many high flying Championship players have found the step up too much and failed to reproduce their form.
I'd be disappointed if he leaves but Christie has impressed me when I've seen him.
Quote from: Nick Bateman on June 04, 2018, 05:49:00 PM
The board being Alistair Mackintosh who knows as much about football as I do on one fingernail. Cairney is on a Championship salary, that amount is well below the average of top stars in the PL.
I say make Fredericks the highest paid to encourage him to sign, or at least offer more then West Ham!!?? Then once services secured raise the wages of other stars in our squad accordingly. I am frankly SICK of this penny-pinching as soon as we hit the big time again - that's what got Fulham relegated last time!!
Then you artificially raising salaries above market rate to suit the needs of one alleged wantaway RB. That's not penny pinching thats horrendous business and also opens cans of worms for players to reject offers and become disillusioned. Why do that? Now if you are able to get a top-drawer player for more, then nobody can argue but Freds is largely untested. He has as much chance of being the next Scott Malone than Tripper.
Too many assumptions made in the op and also just stupid business sense in some of the comments and far too personal as well.
I gave Ali Mack credit for acquiring Mitrovic in January - that move alone ensured Fulham's revival and ultimate promotion.
And as a fan, one is not bothered about the costs. It is good business however, to retain a terrific defender whom West Ham and others have identified for around £7 million while his actual worth is over the £20million mark.
But while Khan flaunts his wealth at procuring Wembley Stadium for £900 million, Fulham lose players worth more, to rivals I might add, and I would like these armchair accountants to respond in 6 months time if Fulham are struggling to stay up because we were too concerned about the non-existent budget.
Khan has the wealth, let him finally live up to Al Fayed's promises!
Quote from: Nick Bateman on June 04, 2018, 06:10:13 PM
I gave Ali Mack credit for acquiring Mitrovic in January - that move alone ensured Fulham's revival and ultimate promotion.
And as a fan, one is not bothered about the costs. It is good business however, to retain a terrific defender whom West Ham and others have identified for around £7 million while his actual worth is over the £20million mark.
But while Khan flaunts his wealth at procuring Wembley Stadium for £900 million, Fulham lose players worth more, to rivals I might add, and I would like these armchair accountants to respond in 6 months time if Fulham are struggling to stay up because we were too concerned about the non-existent budget.
Khan has the wealth, let him finally live up to Al Fayed's promises!
I'd rather see you respond when Trent Alexander-Arnold lines up as No.2 for England at the next major international tournament.
Hear Hear - agree with all OP's sentiments
Surely now he has got FFC up, Khan has to trust the manager's judgements and invest in new players (to back up the existing ones ALL who deserve a chance in PL) - we can not afford to muck it up like 2013
Not sure you are correct on Mitro's absolute last minute signing though
Look, Fredericks has been a good Championship player for us, but by no means our best and we have yet to see how good he will be in the Premiership. Sure we should give him a new contract with a pay level expected by good Premiership players but not one with sky high pay above that of his better team mates.
There has to be a reasonable level of financial control within the club otherwise we will quickly go the same way as the likes of Portsmouth.
Lets keep our feet on the ground and remember we have seen better full backs than Fredericks playing for Fulham, perhaps a little chat with George Cohen may bring him back to earth.
I agree with the sentiment of the original post i.e. that our club need to step up their resolve and ambition this window. I think, however, that some of the arguments are flawed.
Don't want to lose Sess this soon but for me £50m overstates his current worth. Would rather not lose Fred either but he's not that good and mustn't be allowed to hold us to ransome. Next England RB? Seems unlikely.
As for the insults to our management, this is OTT. Yes, mistakes have been made but there is no evidence to suggest that those errors will be repeated. In my view, January suggested that lessons have been learnt and as we approach this exciting crossroads, I feel we should give the club the chance to show what they can do and reserve judgement until we see what actually unfolds.
I'm not expecting miracle signings but feel quietly confident that we'll emerge from the window with a stronger squad. Exciting times!
Quote from: Nick Bateman on June 04, 2018, 05:49:00 PM
The board being Alistair Mackintosh who knows as much about football as I do on one fingernail. Cairney is on a Championship salary, that amount is well below the average of top stars in the PL.
I say make Fredericks the highest paid to encourage him to sign, or at least offer more then West Ham!!?? Then once services secured raise the wages of other stars in our squad accordingly. I am frankly SICK of this penny-pinching as soon as we hit the big time again - that's what got Fulham relegated last time!!
The only point I would argue is that alimac has been around football for many years, he was at man city before us, and I reckon he knows a dam site more than you, me, and quite a few others.
Never mind it's another statement from you that you really don't know the answer.
Fredericks could well be the next England right back. Statistically, he's more likely be the next hyped right back that fails to live up to the next step up the ladder. There are many more who fail at it than succeed.
For this reason, Fulham need to resist the "keep the band together at all costs" mentality. If Ryan wants a salary that exceeds the club's valuation or West Ham offer a premium that exceeds same, then they should trust their own judgement and recruiting, count on Christie and go out looking for a better replacement.
I'd feel this way about almost all of our players. Sess, I'd hold onto unless the offer was ridiculous and Cairney would be incredibly difficult to replace, I think....to give two examples.
The most important signature to retain, IMHO, is Slavisa's. His style of play works. It's an attractive recruiting tool. And, any change in culture - not to mention possibly playing style - would be a huge obstacle to success in our first season back in the PL. Additionally, we need to sign him to a multi-year contract. No more 18 month or rolling contracts. We need some sort of return if bigger clubs come in for him....just like with the players.
In the end though, we have to be willing to accept that our best player's success will mean their leaving at some point. As such, we need to keep the conveyor belt from the academy turning and continually recruit players who provide a true challenge for places within the team. We don't need to sign backups.
Pompey had an Icelandic banking fraudster one recalls, Fulham have a MULTI-BILLIONAIRE owner.
He is the 158th RICHEST billionaire on Earth according to Forbes!!!!
Now some of you are concerned about a few ha'pennies in comparison to his extra-ordinary wealth. Why are Fulham SECOND in your train of thinking?
And if he did spend billions (which one is not proposing but adding as conjecture), Fulham would be challenging Manchester City as that is all they did.
One would like to see Richard Scudamore (PL chair) sitting next to Khan next season every match as he did with the Mansours.
If slav kicks up a fuss,but don't think he will over Frederick as christie is temperament wise more calmer and not as prone to dissent bookings.
Quote from: sarnian on June 04, 2018, 05:15:41 PM
Sorry but stopped reading after assessment of Fredericks. If you think he is Englands next right back you know nothing about defending. Great going forward but defending is first priority and often loses his man in the penalty area. 075.gif
to be fair, walker and Glenn Johnson had long England careers on the back of pace and attacking ability with very little defensive nous
Quote from: Nick Bateman on June 04, 2018, 05:49:00 PM
The board being Alistair Mackintosh who knows as much about football as I do on one fingernail. Cairney is on a Championship salary, that amount is well below the average of top stars in the PL.
I say make Fredericks the highest paid to encourage him to sign, or at least offer more then West Ham!!?? Then once services secured raise the wages of other stars in our squad accordingly. I am frankly SICK of this penny-pinching as soon as we hit the big time again - that's what got Fulham relegated last time!!
If you make Fredericks our highest paid player I can see a revolution taking place! I think he is probably just good enough to play in the PL but if he does leave I am sure we will sign a better defender but maybe not with the same pace going forward, wasn't Usain Bolt thinking about a football career?
Quote from: Nick Bateman on June 04, 2018, 05:49:00 PM
The board being Alistair Mackintosh who knows as much about football as I do on one fingernail. Cairney is on a Championship salary, that amount is well below the average of top stars in the PL.
I say make Fredericks the highest paid to encourage him to sign, or at least offer more then West Ham!!?? Then once services secured raise the wages of other stars in our squad accordingly. I am frankly SICK of this penny-pinching as soon as we hit the big time again - that's what got Fulham relegated last time!!
This penny pinching also got Fulham promoted this season.
Your quoting wages that would put him at £55-60k a week.....really....I don't want him to go either but there are plenty of other options all over the world and here in England that you can get that are better than what we have for that weekly wage
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Quote from: corbs83 on June 04, 2018, 07:49:28 PM
Your quoting wages that would put him at £55-60k a week.....really....I don't want him to go either but there are plenty of other options all over the world and here in England that you can get that are better than what we have for that weekly wage
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really? Didnt we just pay 4 mil for Christie? Which equates to 22 thousand a week over the 3 and a half year contract before you even take his actual wages into account. And I wouldn't say he was better. Everyone looking at Freds estimated wage demands, but not many are taking into account that he is a free agent. If you bought somone at 5 mill on a 3 year contract, that's 32k a week before wages. And as we know, bang average players cost a fortune nowadays, so unless there is a quality Rb out of contract, then I for one do not think we will get anywhere near the quality that we have for Fred at a package of around 50k a week
Not talking bout transfer fees .... Each to their own opinion
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Quote from: corbs83 on June 04, 2018, 08:28:06 PM
Not talking bout transfer fees .... Each to their own opinion
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but you are and don't even know it. If you are a free transfer you can demand higher wages. Yes you could get someone better than Fred for 50k a week. But by the time you add in a transfer fee, it will cost you more.
Quote from: Nick Bateman on June 04, 2018, 05:41:17 PM
Perhaps you are missing the point; how can West Ham pinch one of Fulham's best players when we have a multi-billionaire owner? It's like a hostile takeover of General Motors done by Skoda!
Sim0ld really if Frederick won't sign a contract there is stuff all we can do about :dft003:
Ok fair enough but I was talking about wages in isolation. I appreciate the point you are making but when you say a £60k a week player, id have higher aspirations than what we currently have but that is like you say not taking into account transfer fees
Quote from: fulhamben on June 04, 2018, 08:30:42 PM
Quote from: corbs83 on June 04, 2018, 08:28:06 PM
Not talking bout transfer fees .... Each to their own opinion
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but you are and don't even know it. If you are a free transfer you can demand higher wages. Yes you could get someone better than Fred for 50k a week. But by the time you add in a transfer fee, it will cost you more.
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Quote from: corbs83 on June 04, 2018, 09:18:27 PM
Ok fair enough but I was talking about wages in isolation. I appreciate the point you are making but when you say a £60k a week player, id have higher aspirations than what we currently have but that is like you say not taking into account transfer fees
Quote from: fulhamben on June 04, 2018, 08:30:42 PM
Quote from: corbs83 on June 04, 2018, 08:28:06 PM
Not talking bout transfer fees .... Each to their own opinion
Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk
but you are and don't even know it. If you are a free transfer you can demand higher wages. Yes you could get someone better than Fred for 50k a week. But by the time you add in a transfer fee, it will cost you more.
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don't get me wrong, I totally get where you are coming from on the wage alone. But unfortunately John bosman absolutely destroyed the game. Granted he had a good reason. But really think the rule needs looking at now.
Quote from: Nick Bateman on June 04, 2018, 05:49:00 PM
I say make Fredericks the highest paid
That made me chuckle!
Quote from: Nick Bateman on June 04, 2018, 05:41:17 PM
Perhaps you are missing the point; how can West Ham pinch one of Fulham's best players when we have a multi-billionaire owner? It's like a hostile takeover of General Motors done by Skoda!
Skoda is owned by VW which are the biggest car manufacturer in the world and GM only fourth.
I like Odoi, but I like Fredericks more - far more.
You shall mark my words if you agree to allowing a RIVAL pinch one of our best players of last season.
How many times did Fred race past opposing defenders purely on his incredible pace?? I think some supporters need a reality check, and as FulhamBen pointed out, signing a wing-back of such quality (and he has played for Tottenham in the PL) would cost Fulham more!!
So much for "smart" business.
Quote from: Nick Bateman on June 04, 2018, 10:42:51 PM
I like Odoi, but I like Fredericks more - far more.
You shall mark my words if you agree to allowing a RIVAL pinch one of our best players of last season.
How many times did Fred race past opposing defenders purely on his incredible pace?? I think some supporters need a reality check, and as FulhamBen pointed out, signing a wing-back of such quality (and he has played for Tottenham in the PL) would cost Fulham more!!
So much for "smart" business.
One of the best but certainly not the best player last season. No way he should be the highest paid player at the club. If the man has that sort of ego on him then there's the door.
He's got a naughty streak that often worried me and should have been sent off in the first half of the final. I'm not crying myself to sleep over losing him that's for sure.
Our priorities need to be tying down Slav and securing Mitro and we go from there.
Quote from: Nick Bateman on June 04, 2018, 10:42:51 PM
and he has played for Tottenham in the PL
*Europa League
He never made an appearance for them in the Premiership.
All he's got is unbelievable pace. If he goes, then we have some full backs with incredible talent already in the squad. Christie, Fossey, Stephen Sessegnon..
When talking about unlimited money and wages etc, a little unknown rule of FFP in the PL... Yes it still exists... Is that we can only increase wages up to 67m per year. Currently we are at about 30-35m and when last in the PL was nearly 70m
Quote from: Statto on June 04, 2018, 10:03:27 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 04, 2018, 08:30:42 PM
but you are and don't even know it. If you are a free transfer you can demand higher wages. Yes you could get someone better than Fred for 50k a week. But by the time you add in a transfer fee, it will cost you more.
But then your wage structure goes out the window.
Denis Odoi comes along and says, if he's getting £50k a week that's what I want.
We
Then you say, you're not a free agent Denis. So he says ok, don't bother asking me to renew my contract, I'm gonna let it run down then ask you to double it when I'm a free agent.
Meanwhile Kamara comes along and says, I cost half as much as Fonte so can I get paid twice as much?
Sh1tshoww
I was going to say something similar to this. We have suffered in the past with players running down their contracts. Steed, Moussa being 2 of these. Giving in to Fred would make this even worse. We need to reward loyalty, ie increase wages and contract length to players like Sess and Tom who signed extensions.
My other point is that Fulham will have worked out a budget for if we got promoted and if we stayed in the championship. This will be I suspect a generous one for player aquisition but not stupid. Khan is on record early in his ownership for saying I did not buy a football club to burn money and I don't see him starting now.
If we could add £50 million to that budget by selling Sess, we would have to seriously consider it. If we could bring that sort of increased budget in and get Sess back on loan I think we would have to do it.
It will be about priorities, supporting the manager/coach, and understanding where our must improve areas are. Striker and Central defender as per the last few years are where we have to focus the most in my view.
Metro plus one striker and 2 centre backs needed. If we don't get Targett, left back is more critical than keeping Fred, again in my view.
Quote from: Statto on June 04, 2018, 10:03:27 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 04, 2018, 08:30:42 PM
but you are and don't even know it. If you are a free transfer you can demand higher wages. Yes you could get someone better than Fred for 50k a week. But by the time you add in a transfer fee, it will cost you more.
But then your wage structure goes out the window.
Denis Odoi comes along and says, if he's getting £50k a week that's what I want.
Then you say, you're not a free agent Denis. So he says ok, don't bother asking me to renew my contract, I'm gonna let it run down then ask you to double it when I'm a free agent.
Meanwhile Kamara comes along and says, I cost half as much as Fonte so can I get paid twice as much?
Sh1tshow
that's why you don't let players get even close to running down a contract.
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 09:46:12 AM
Quote from: Statto on June 04, 2018, 10:03:27 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 04, 2018, 08:30:42 PM
but you are and don't even know it. If you are a free transfer you can demand higher wages. Yes you could get someone better than Fred for 50k a week. But by the time you add in a transfer fee, it will cost you more.
But then your wage structure goes out the window.
Denis Odoi comes along and says, if he's getting £50k a week that's what I want.
Then you say, you're not a free agent Denis. So he says ok, don't bother asking me to renew my contract, I'm gonna let it run down then ask you to double it when I'm a free agent.
Meanwhile Kamara comes along and says, I cost half as much as Fonte so can I get paid twice as much?
Sh1tshow
that's why you don't let players get even close to running down a contract.
You cant force them to sign. Bigger clubs have made the same mistake, Utd with Fellaini, Liverpool with Can, etc
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 09:46:12 AM
Quote from: Statto on June 04, 2018, 10:03:27 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 04, 2018, 08:30:42 PM
but you are and don't even know it. If you are a free transfer you can demand higher wages. Yes you could get someone better than Fred for 50k a week. But by the time you add in a transfer fee, it will cost you more.
But then your wage structure goes out the window.
Denis Odoi comes along and says, if he's getting £50k a week that's what I want.
Then you say, you're not a free agent Denis. So he says ok, don't bother asking me to renew my contract, I'm gonna let it run down then ask you to double it when I'm a free agent.
Meanwhile Kamara comes along and says, I cost half as much as Fonte so can I get paid twice as much?
Sh1tshow
that's why you don't let players get even close to running down a contract.
so we should have sold Fred either last summer or January?
Quote from: FulhamStu on June 05, 2018, 07:17:24 AM
Quote from: Statto on June 04, 2018, 10:03:27 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 04, 2018, 08:30:42 PM
but you are and don't even know it. If you are a free transfer you can demand higher wages. Yes you could get someone better than Fred for 50k a week. But by the time you add in a transfer fee, it will cost you more.
But then your wage structure goes out the window.
Denis Odoi comes along and says, if he's getting £50k a week that's what I want.
We
Then you say, you're not a free agent Denis. So he says ok, don't bother asking me to renew my contract, I'm gonna let it run down then ask you to double it when I'm a free agent.
Meanwhile Kamara comes along and says, I cost half as much as Fonte so can I get paid twice as much?
Sh1tshoww
I was going to say something similar to this. We have suffered in the past with players running down their contracts. Steed, Moussa being 2 of these. Giving in to Fred would make this even worse. We need to reward loyalty, ie increase wages and contract length to players like Sess and Tom who signed extensions.
My other point is that Fulham will have worked out a budget for if we got promoted and if we stayed in the championship. This will be I suspect a generous one for player aquisition but not stupid. Khan is on record early in his ownership for saying I did not buy a football club to burn money and I don't see him starting now.
If we could add £50 million to that budget by selling Sess, we would have to seriously consider it. If we could bring that sort of increased budget in and get Sess back on loan I think we would have to do it.
It will be about priorities, supporting the manager/coach, and understanding where our must improve areas are. Striker and Central defender as per the last few years are where we have to focus the most in my view.
Metro plus one striker and 2 centre backs needed. If we don't get Targett, left back is more critical than keeping Fred, again in my view.
of we sell sess for 50 million then I hope to god we buy a replacement rather than loan him back. It's one thing gambling on you own youth, but a totally different thing doing it with somone else's. If he struggles in the prem with us then, then you be patient as it will be worth it in the long run. If it's someone else's kid on loan, then you dump them out of the squad ala ojo Graham and that other left back we had last season.
Quote from: MJG on June 05, 2018, 09:57:44 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 09:46:12 AM
Quote from: Statto on June 04, 2018, 10:03:27 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 04, 2018, 08:30:42 PM
but you are and don't even know it. If you are a free transfer you can demand higher wages. Yes you could get someone better than Fred for 50k a week. But by the time you add in a transfer fee, it will cost you more.
But then your wage structure goes out the window.
Denis Odoi comes along and says, if he's getting £50k a week that's what I want.
Then you say, you're not a free agent Denis. So he says ok, don't bother asking me to renew my contract, I'm gonna let it run down then ask you to double it when I'm a free agent.
Meanwhile Kamara comes along and says, I cost half as much as Fonte so can I get paid twice as much?
Sh1tshow
that's why you don't let players get even close to running down a contract.
so we should have sold Fred either last summer or January?
no because we needed him for promotion. If Fulham could have got a player as close to Freds ability for the same money then we would have sold him. But alas we couldn't. We paid more for his understudy who is no where near Freds quality.
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 10:03:09 AM
Quote from: MJG on June 05, 2018, 09:57:44 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 09:46:12 AM
Quote from: Statto on June 04, 2018, 10:03:27 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 04, 2018, 08:30:42 PM
but you are and don't even know it. If you are a free transfer you can demand higher wages. Yes you could get someone better than Fred for 50k a week. But by the time you add in a transfer fee, it will cost you more.
But then your wage structure goes out the window.
Denis Odoi comes along and says, if he's getting £50k a week that's what I want.
Then you say, you're not a free agent Denis. So he says ok, don't bother asking me to renew my contract, I'm gonna let it run down then ask you to double it when I'm a free agent.
Meanwhile Kamara comes along and says, I cost half as much as Fonte so can I get paid twice as much?
Sh1tshow
that's why you don't let players get even close to running down a contract.
so we should have sold Fred either last summer or January?
no because we needed him for promotion. If Fulham could have got a player as close to Freds ability for the same money then we would have sold him. But alas we couldn't. We paid more for his understudy who is no where near Freds quality.
so a club does allow players to run down their contract after rejecting offers... If he's good.
Quote from: Statto on June 05, 2018, 10:02:55 AM
Quote from: Marcel_Gecov on June 05, 2018, 09:52:22 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 09:46:12 AM
Quote from: Statto on June 04, 2018, 10:03:27 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 04, 2018, 08:30:42 PM
but you are and don't even know it. If you are a free transfer you can demand higher wages. Yes you could get someone better than Fred for 50k a week. But by the time you add in a transfer fee, it will cost you more.
But then your wage structure goes out the window.
Denis Odoi comes along and says, if he's getting £50k a week that's what I want.
Then you say, you're not a free agent Denis. So he says ok, don't bother asking me to renew my contract, I'm gonna let it run down then ask you to double it when I'm a free agent.
Meanwhile Kamara comes along and says, I cost half as much as Fonte so can I get paid twice as much?
Sh1tshow
that's why you don't let players get even close to running down a contract.
You cant force them to sign. Bigger clubs have made the same mistake, Utd with Fellaini, Liverpool with Can, etc
Exactly. If we give Fred a massive deal now, clearly the lesson our other players would take from that is it's better for them to do the same thing rather than renew contracts with 1 or 2 years still to run
yes but you have to
Quote from: Statto on June 05, 2018, 10:02:55 AM
Quote from: Marcel_Gecov on June 05, 2018, 09:52:22 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 09:46:12 AM
Quote from: Statto on June 04, 2018, 10:03:27 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 04, 2018, 08:30:42 PM
but you are and don't even know it. If you are a free transfer you can demand higher wages. Yes you could get someone better than Fred for 50k a week. But by the time you add in a transfer fee, it will cost you more.
But then your wage structure goes out the window.
Denis Odoi comes along and says, if he's getting £50k a week that's what I want.
Then you say, you're not a free agent Denis. So he says ok, don't bother asking me to renew my contract, I'm gonna let it run down then ask you to double it when I'm a free agent.
Meanwhile Kamara comes along and says, I cost half as much as Fonte so can I get paid twice as much?
Sh1tshow
that's why you don't let players get even close to running down a contract.
You cant force them to sign. Bigger clubs have made the same mistake, Utd with Fellaini, Liverpool with Can, etc
Exactly. If we give Fred a massive deal now, clearly the lesson our other players would take from that is it's better for them to do the same thing rather than renew contracts with 1 or 2 years still to run
and if Fred goes to westham that will also send a message to run down your contract and move to a bigger club on better wages. It's how the market works now, and how the players have the power.
Quote from: MJG on June 05, 2018, 10:05:36 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 10:03:09 AM
Quote from: MJG on June 05, 2018, 09:57:44 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 09:46:12 AM
Quote from: Statto on June 04, 2018, 10:03:27 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 04, 2018, 08:30:42 PM
but you are and don't even know it. If you are a free transfer you can demand higher wages. Yes you could get someone better than Fred for 50k a week. But by the time you add in a transfer fee, it will cost you more.
But then your wage structure goes out the window.
Denis Odoi comes along and says, if he's getting £50k a week that's what I want.
Then you say, you're not a free agent Denis. So he says ok, don't bother asking me to renew my contract, I'm gonna let it run down then ask you to double it when I'm a free agent.
Meanwhile Kamara comes along and says, I cost half as much as Fonte so can I get paid twice as much?
Sh1tshow
that's why you don't let players get even close to running down a contract.
so we should have sold Fred either last summer or January?
no because we needed him for promotion. If Fulham could have got a player as close to Freds ability for the same money then we would have sold him. But alas we couldn't. We paid more for his understudy who is no where near Freds quality.
so a club does allow players to run down their contract after rejecting offers... If he's good.
only if you think it's worth the risk. Arsenal gambled on sanchez and sold him for peanuts when they realised top 4 was out of reach
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 10:11:29 AM
Quote from: MJG on June 05, 2018, 10:05:36 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 10:03:09 AM
Quote from: MJG on June 05, 2018, 09:57:44 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 09:46:12 AM
Quote from: Statto on June 04, 2018, 10:03:27 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 04, 2018, 08:30:42 PM
but you are and don't even know it. If you are a free transfer you can demand higher wages. Yes you could get someone better than Fred for 50k a week. But by the time you add in a transfer fee, it will cost you more.
But then your wage structure goes out the window.
Denis Odoi comes along and says, if he's getting £50k a week that's what I want.
Then you say, you're not a free agent Denis. So he says ok, don't bother asking me to renew my contract, I'm gonna let it run down then ask you to double it when I'm a free agent.
Meanwhile Kamara comes along and says, I cost half as much as Fonte so can I get paid twice as much?
Sh1tshow
that's why you don't let players get even close to running down a contract.
so we should have sold Fred either last summer or January?
no because we needed him for promotion. If Fulham could have got a player as close to Freds ability for the same money then we would have sold him. But alas we couldn't. We paid more for his understudy who is no where near Freds quality.
so a club does allow players to run down their contract after rejecting offers... If he's good.
only if you think it's worth the risk. Arsenal gambled on sanchez and sold him for peanuts when they realised top 4 was out of reach
well exactly. Main thing is you can't force anyone to sign a contract. I find it telling that of all our players in last couple of years he seems to be only one to turn down an extension. Others have agreed and so I'd say wages are not an issue from our pov. He clearly has a high regard and worth for himself, but it's above where we see him. He's not a player I'd break any wage structure for. I'd prefer he stayed, but I'd also prefer him to understand his place in the pecking order.
Quote from: MJG on June 05, 2018, 10:14:39 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 10:11:29 AM
Quote from: MJG on June 05, 2018, 10:05:36 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 10:03:09 AM
Quote from: MJG on June 05, 2018, 09:57:44 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 09:46:12 AM
Quote from: Statto on June 04, 2018, 10:03:27 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 04, 2018, 08:30:42 PM
but you are and don't even know it. If you are a free transfer you can demand higher wages. Yes you could get someone better than Fred for 50k a week. But by the time you add in a transfer fee, it will cost you more.
But then your wage structure goes out the window.
Denis Odoi comes along and says, if he's getting £50k a week that's what I want.
Then you say, you're not a free agent Denis. So he says ok, don't bother asking me to renew my contract, I'm gonna let it run down then ask you to double it when I'm a free agent.
Meanwhile Kamara comes along and says, I cost half as much as Fonte so can I get paid twice as much?
Sh1tshow
that's why you don't let players get even close to running down a contract.
so we should have sold Fred either last summer or January?
no because we needed him for promotion. If Fulham could have got a player as close to Freds ability for the same money then we would have sold him. But alas we couldn't. We paid more for his understudy who is no where near Freds quality.
so a club does allow players to run down their contract after rejecting offers... If he's good.
only if you think it's worth the risk. Arsenal gambled on sanchez and sold him for peanuts when they realised top 4 was out of reach
well exactly. Main thing is you can't force anyone to sign a contract. I find it telling that of all our players in last couple of years he seems to be only one to turn down an extension. Others have agreed and so I'd say wages are not an issue from our pov. He clearly has a high regard and worth for himself, but it's above where we see him. He's not a player I'd break any wage structure for. I'd prefer he stayed, but I'd also prefer him to understand his place in the pecking order.
this is why we might struggle. The average prem wages in now 50k a week. Granted that would be bumped up by some players on mega wages. But a player bought for 4mill on half those wages would cost about the same as it would to give Fred a 3 year deal at 50k a week.
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 10:20:07 AM
Quote from: MJG on June 05, 2018, 10:14:39 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 10:11:29 AM
Quote from: MJG on June 05, 2018, 10:05:36 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 10:03:09 AM
Quote from: MJG on June 05, 2018, 09:57:44 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 09:46:12 AM
Quote from: Statto on June 04, 2018, 10:03:27 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 04, 2018, 08:30:42 PM
but you are and don't even know it. If you are a free transfer you can demand higher wages. Yes you could get someone better than Fred for 50k a week. But by the time you add in a transfer fee, it will cost you more.
But then your wage structure goes out the window.
Denis Odoi comes along and says, if he's getting £50k a week that's what I want.
Then you say, you're not a free agent Denis. So he says ok, don't bother asking me to renew my contract, I'm gonna let it run down then ask you to double it when I'm a free agent.
Meanwhile Kamara comes along and says, I cost half as much as Fonte so can I get paid twice as much?
Sh1tshow
that's why you don't let players get even close to running down a contract.
so we should have sold Fred either last summer or January?
no because we needed him for promotion. If Fulham could have got a player as close to Freds ability for the same money then we would have sold him. But alas we couldn't. We paid more for his understudy who is no where near Freds quality.
so a club does allow players to run down their contract after rejecting offers... If he's good.
only if you think it's worth the risk. Arsenal gambled on sanchez and sold him for peanuts when they realised top 4 was out of reach
well exactly. Main thing is you can't force anyone to sign a contract. I find it telling that of all our players in last couple of years he seems to be only one to turn down an extension. Others have agreed and so I'd say wages are not an issue from our pov. He clearly has a high regard and worth for himself, but it's above where we see him. He's not a player I'd break any wage structure for. I'd prefer he stayed, but I'd also prefer him to understand his place in the pecking order.
this is why we might struggle. The average prem wages in now 50k a week. Granted that would be bumped up by some players on mega wages. But a player bought for 4mill on half those wages would cost about the same as it would to give Fred a 3 year deal at 50k a week.
That average is heavily thrown off by the big players at top 4 clubs. Do you think Burnley, Bournemouth, Palace pay that? (SPOILER: they don't)
Quote from: Marcel_Gecov on June 05, 2018, 10:28:16 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 10:20:07 AM
Quote from: MJG on June 05, 2018, 10:14:39 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 10:11:29 AM
Quote from: MJG on June 05, 2018, 10:05:36 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 10:03:09 AM
Quote from: MJG on June 05, 2018, 09:57:44 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 09:46:12 AM
Quote from: Statto on June 04, 2018, 10:03:27 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 04, 2018, 08:30:42 PM
but you are and don't even know it. If you are a free transfer you can demand higher wages. Yes you could get someone better than Fred for 50k a week. But by the time you add in a transfer fee, it will cost you more.
But then your wage structure goes out the window.
Denis Odoi comes along and says, if he's getting £50k a week that's what I want.
Then you say, you're not a free agent Denis. So he says ok, don't bother asking me to renew my contract, I'm gonna let it run down then ask you to double it when I'm a free agent.
Meanwhile Kamara comes along and says, I cost half as much as Fonte so can I get paid twice as much?
Sh1tshow
that's why you don't let players get even close to running down a contract.
so we should have sold Fred either last summer or January?
no because we needed him for promotion. If Fulham could have got a player as close to Freds ability for the same money then we would have sold him. But alas we couldn't. We paid more for his understudy who is no where near Freds quality.
so a club does allow players to run down their contract after rejecting offers... If he's good.
only if you think it's worth the risk. Arsenal gambled on sanchez and sold him for peanuts when they realised top 4 was out of reach
well exactly. Main thing is you can't force anyone to sign a contract. I find it telling that of all our players in last couple of years he seems to be only one to turn down an extension. Others have agreed and so I'd say wages are not an issue from our pov. He clearly has a high regard and worth for himself, but it's above where we see him. He's not a player I'd break any wage structure for. I'd prefer he stayed, but I'd also prefer him to understand his place in the pecking order.
this is why we might struggle. The average prem wages in now 50k a week. Granted that would be bumped up by some players on mega wages. But a player bought for 4mill on half those wages would cost about the same as it would to give Fred a 3 year deal at 50k a week.
That average is heavily thrown off by the big players at top 4 clubs. Do you think Burnley, Bournemouth, Palace pay that? (SPOILER: they don't)
I did say it was bumped up. And yes, crystal Palace paid 27 million for benteke and he is on 120000 a week. So the whole package works out about 250k a week over his 4 year contract.
(spoiler they do)
Quote from: Statto on June 05, 2018, 10:44:13 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 10:20:07 AM
Quote from: MJG on June 05, 2018, 10:14:39 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 10:11:29 AM
Quote from: MJG on June 05, 2018, 10:05:36 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 10:03:09 AM
Quote from: MJG on June 05, 2018, 09:57:44 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 09:46:12 AM
Quote from: Statto on June 04, 2018, 10:03:27 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 04, 2018, 08:30:42 PM
but you are and don't even know it. If you are a free transfer you can demand higher wages. Yes you could get someone better than Fred for 50k a week. But by the time you add in a transfer fee, it will cost you more.
But then your wage structure goes out the window.
Denis Odoi comes along and says, if he's getting £50k a week that's what I want.
Then you say, you're not a free agent Denis. So he says ok, don't bother asking me to renew my contract, I'm gonna let it run down then ask you to double it when I'm a free agent.
Meanwhile Kamara comes along and says, I cost half as much as Fonte so can I get paid twice as much?
Sh1tshow
that's why you don't let players get even close to running down a contract.
so we should have sold Fred either last summer or January?
no because we needed him for promotion. If Fulham could have got a player as close to Freds ability for the same money then we would have sold him. But alas we couldn't. We paid more for his understudy who is no where near Freds quality.
so a club does allow players to run down their contract after rejecting offers... If he's good.
only if you think it's worth the risk. Arsenal gambled on sanchez and sold him for peanuts when they realised top 4 was out of reach
well exactly. Main thing is you can't force anyone to sign a contract. I find it telling that of all our players in last couple of years he seems to be only one to turn down an extension. Others have agreed and so I'd say wages are not an issue from our pov. He clearly has a high regard and worth for himself, but it's above where we see him. He's not a player I'd break any wage structure for. I'd prefer he stayed, but I'd also prefer him to understand his place in the pecking order.
this is why we might struggle. The average prem wages in now 50k a week. Granted that would be bumped up by some players on mega wages. But a player bought for 4mill on half those wages would cost about the same as it would to give Fred a 3 year deal at 50k a week.
Premiership wages are high. So what? that just brings you back to the point about needing a structure. If the average (including Man City strikers) is £50k per week then the level for a defender at a mid-table team is probably about £25k per week. If you give Fred £50k then every other defender who signs/renews at Fulham In the coming years is going to want £50k per week
hey I'm not saying we should pay it. I'm merely stating that to replace him with somone who might not even match his ability could cost the same amount or even more when the whole package is taking into account.
Quote from: Statto on June 05, 2018, 12:36:49 PM
The "whole package" of giving him a 200% pay rise is having to give 20 other players the same. That's what you need to take into account and it's much more expensive than paying a £4m fee for someone just as good
player still has to be worth It though. Somone mentioned Odoi further up, well I'd imagine we will be replacing him as a first teamer anyway so we wouldn't offer him that much if he went and ran his contract down. And likewise we wouldn't hesitate in selling if we knew his intentions. Not quite sure why some are unwilling to see/accept or are even getting the slight hump at the fact that free agents can and do demand more in wages. It's been happening ever since the bosman rule came into effect in 1995.
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 01:22:01 PM
Quote from: Statto on June 05, 2018, 12:36:49 PM
The "whole package" of giving him a 200% pay rise is having to give 20 other players the same. That's what you need to take into account and it's much more expensive than paying a £4m fee for someone just as good
player still has to be worth It though. Somone mentioned Odoi further up, well I'd imagine we will be replacing him as a first teamer anyway so we wouldn't offer him that much if he went and ran his contract down. And likewise we wouldn't hesitate in selling if we knew his intentions. Not quite sure why some are unwilling to see/accept or are even getting the slight hump at the fact that free agents can and do demand more in wages. It's been happening ever since the bosman rule came into effect in 1995.
The point isn't that though. The problem is then having All the other players who are currently happy knocking on the door demanding pay rises. Fred is not worth that problem
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 01:22:01 PM
Quote from: Statto on June 05, 2018, 12:36:49 PM
The "whole package" of giving him a 200% pay rise is having to give 20 other players the same. That's what you need to take into account and it's much more expensive than paying a £4m fee for someone just as good
player still has to be worth It though. Somone mentioned Odoi further up, well I'd imagine we will be replacing him as a first teamer anyway so we wouldn't offer him that much if he went and ran his contract down. And likewise we wouldn't hesitate in selling if we knew his intentions. Not quite sure why some are unwilling to see/accept or are even getting the slight hump at the fact that free agents can and do demand more in wages. It's been happening ever since the bosman rule came into effect in 1995.
Yes but he is only a free agent if he moves somewhere else.
Otherwise he is just a Fulham player holding the club to ransom. Different things.
... also I genuinely think that Christie is a better player than Fred.
Quote from: Marcel_Gecov on June 05, 2018, 01:36:12 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 01:22:01 PM
Quote from: Statto on June 05, 2018, 12:36:49 PM
The "whole package" of giving him a 200% pay rise is having to give 20 other players the same. That's what you need to take into account and it's much more expensive than paying a £4m fee for someone just as good
player still has to be worth It though. Somone mentioned Odoi further up, well I'd imagine we will be replacing him as a first teamer anyway so we wouldn't offer him that much if he went and ran his contract down. And likewise we wouldn't hesitate in selling if we knew his intentions. Not quite sure why some are unwilling to see/accept or are even getting the slight hump at the fact that free agents can and do demand more in wages. It's been happening ever since the bosman rule came into effect in 1995.
The point isn't that though. The problem is then having All the other players who are currently happy knocking on the door demanding pay rises. Fred is not worth that problem
so by your theory we won't sign any decent players, and it will only be cheapies that no other prem team will touch, so as not to pee off all our players on championship wages. If you want good players you pay the money. And to me getting Frederick's for a combined total of 7.8m for 3 years is absolute bargain in this day and age. It wouldnt even get kalas through the door to start wage negotiations. Freds will be a huge loss to us and we will be weaker for it. Unless of course we spend a big part of our budget to replace him
Quote from: simplyfulham on June 05, 2018, 01:46:30 PM
... also I genuinely think that Christie is a better player than Fred.
can't say that I saw him much at borro. And I hope he does come good, but I've personally seen nothing to suggest he is even on par let alone better than Frederick's. Time will tell
Couple of thoughts. Firstly, I imagine most if not all first team players probably already have a clause in their contracts to get a pay rise upon promotion. So the argument we're paying Championship wages is probably not true.
Secondly we won't just pay the monthly wage upon signing a new contract, there will be additional fees and Fredericks agent may be demanding a significant fee because he knows he will get one if Fredericks moves on a bosman. We don't know either way.
Finally, Christie actually has similar stats to Fredericks, so I don't buy the argument he's nowhere near as good. He impressed me when we played Boro under Monk.
Fredericks had a significantly improved last season but prior to that he was nothing special, all pace and no brains. I would be sad to see him leave after Slavisa did so well to develop him, but I don't see why he can't develop Christie further.
Either way, I'm not going to get too irked by him leaving.
If we believe the media it really looks as if Fredericks is on his way to Wet Spam. I wonder why he was so intent on leaving Fulham when other players seem quite content to stay.
Fulham should now share the excess money that Fredericks was demanding among those contented players that are staying. Loyalty should be rewarded.
You lost me when your compared Fredericks to Kyle Walker!!! Haha
Quote from: JoelH5 on June 05, 2018, 10:51:01 PM
You lost me when your compared Fredericks to Kyle Walker!!! Haha
it's a fair comparison. Both heavily rely on pace, and both are better going forwards than defending.
The best retaliation Fulham's Board and Recruitment Team can show to the loss of players, like Fredericks, is to find someone better for less, or the same, expense. Unless we are going to prise Targett from Southampton's grasp we are looking a both flanks to obtain the balance we found when he arrived. We have recourse to loans as well as purchases and some additional leeway on wages and if there was ever a test the Board and Recruitment team have to pass with flying colours then this is it. Can they deliver? We wait and see.
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 01:51:16 PM
so by your theory we won't sign any decent players, and it will only be cheapies that no other prem team will touch, so as not to pee off all our players on championship wages. If you want good players you pay the money. And to me getting Frederick's for a combined total of 7.8m for 3 years is absolute bargain in this day and age. It wouldnt even get kalas through the door to start wage negotiations. Freds will be a huge loss to us and we will be weaker for it. Unless of course we spend a big part of our budget to replace him
Absolutely spot on by
FulhamBen, a supporter who shows the right type of AMBITION for Fulham, unlike some "armchair accountants" who are still balancing the books based upon FFP regulations.
Fulham can replace Chelsea if they have the desire. Chelsea are in decline and Ambramovich had a net spend of a mere £35million last season (it will be far less if anything at all this season coming).
We can push them out of our neighbourhood if we start investing now.
Fredericks was absolutely pivotal to Fulham's attacks last season, constantly bombing past defenders with his pace, and creating chances with fine crossses or even scoring. He is far better than the useless Walker who single-handedly got Man.City knocked out by Liverpool in Champs' League. And Spurs have made a major blunder by opting for Trippier, whose crosses are not as accurate as Fred's. Incidently, Walker no longer crosses the ball if one observes him, he kicks it backwards 99% of the time!
Ryan Fredericks is the best right wing-back in England. He shall represent our country proudly in the next European competition. Fulham have handed a star player to a London rival, for no benefit to our club. Simply because
Ali Mack wanted to impress Khan with his frugal fiscal policy and not match or outbid a hostile bid he has
SABOTAGED Fulham's season before a ball has been kicked.
One cannot sign a lightning fast wing-back of Fredericks nature for around £7million!!! The math is there, it is foolhardy to let this asset to leave for NOTHING!
So who is next?? If Newcastle want £20million for Mitrovic will Ali Mack baulk and opt for a worse option to lead our line?? One does not understand these boring stuck-in-the-mud unrealistic, misguided and unadventurous supporters who DO NOT WANT FULHAM TO BECOME A BIG CLUB.
Wake up smell the coffee!
Not sure how one believes that we can "replace" Chelsea, even with our multibillionaire owner. FFP still applies to the PL. And, the rules state that, though we are able to immediately increase our wages to somewhere in the neighborhood of 65 million to 75 million (the 2016/17 number was 67 million), anything spent beyond that must be paid for by profits that the club demonstrates via ticket sales, sponsorships, player transfers, etc.
Unless we go selling our best players which we won't, that puts us at approximately 1/3 of Chelsea's wage spend.
We don't have the stadium, sponsorships or supporter base globally to go spending with the likes of Chelsea. Would love to know that I'm totally wrong here but, I just don't see it.
Quote from: Nick Bateman on June 06, 2018, 03:01:27 PM
Ryan Fredericks is the best right wing-back in England
Wake up smell the coffee!
Get real. He's not even the best right back in London. You're clueless and have clearly poor judgment when it comes to assessing footballers.
Quote from: simplyfulham on June 06, 2018, 06:45:27 PM
Quote from: Nick Bateman on June 06, 2018, 03:01:27 PM
Ryan Fredericks is the best right wing-back in England
Wake up smell the coffee!
Get real. He's not even the best right back in London. You're clueless and have clearly poor judgment when it comes to assessing footballers.
Poor judgement in assessing footballers and no idea at all in balancing the books, please keep him well away from the boardroom.
Quote from: Nick Bateman on June 06, 2018, 03:01:27 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on June 05, 2018, 01:51:16 PM
so by your theory we won't sign any decent players, and it will only be cheapies that no other prem team will touch, so as not to pee off all our players on championship wages. If you want good players you pay the money. And to me getting Frederick's for a combined total of 7.8m for 3 years is absolute bargain in this day and age. It wouldnt even get kalas through the door to start wage negotiations. Freds will be a huge loss to us and we will be weaker for it. Unless of course we spend a big part of our budget to replace him
Absolutely spot on by FulhamBen, a supporter who shows the right type of AMBITION for Fulham, unlike some "armchair accountants" who are still balancing the books based upon FFP regulations.
Fulham can replace Chelsea if they have the desire. Chelsea are in decline and Ambramovich had a net spend of a mere £35million last season (it will be far less if anything at all this season coming).
We can push them out of our neighbourhood if we start investing now.
Fredericks was absolutely pivotal to Fulham's attacks last season, constantly bombing past defenders with his pace, and creating chances with fine crossses or even scoring. He is far better than the useless Walker who single-handedly got Man.City knocked out by Liverpool in Champs' League. And Spurs have made a major blunder by opting for Trippier, whose crosses are not as accurate as Fred's. Incidently, Walker no longer crosses the ball if one observes him, he kicks it backwards 99% of the time!
Ryan Fredericks is the best right wing-back in England. He shall represent our country proudly in the next European competition. Fulham have handed a star player to a London rival, for no benefit to our club. Simply because Ali Mack wanted to impress Khan with his frugal fiscal policy and not match or outbid a hostile bid he has SABOTAGED Fulham's season before a ball has been kicked.
One cannot sign a lightning fast wing-back of Fredericks nature for around £7million!!! The math is there, it is foolhardy to let this asset to leave for NOTHING!
So who is next?? If Newcastle want £20million for Mitrovic will Ali Mack baulk and opt for a worse option to lead our line?? One does not understand these boring stuck-in-the-mud unrealistic, misguided and unadventurous supporters who DO NOT WANT FULHAM TO BECOME A BIG CLUB.
Wake up smell the coffee!
Sorry but you're talking nonsense and I don't really get why you're ruffling so many feathers.
To say Fredericks is the best right back in England is pure fantasy given he's only been tested in the second highest league in England, he's not even played in the Premier League.
His crossing is not superior to Trippier, whose best attribute is his crossing and he's not better going forward or defending than Walker. Walker may make mistakes as do all players but all in all he's the superior player and that's why Pep Guardiola spent £50m on him and passed on signing Fredericks for free.
Fredericks had a great season but let's not make out that he's better than is.
Also, every fan wants Fulham to succeed but we're patient enough to see what the management have in store, so why can't you be too?
People, People don't forget that Nick knows his footy.
Quote from: Nick Bateman on June 06, 2018, 03:01:27 PM
Fredericks was absolutely pivotal to Fulham's attacks last season, constantly bombing past defenders with his pace, and creating chances with fine crossses or even scoring.
It's not that important now but Fred never scored for us and I think he was our only outfield player not to score for us this season. Although I'm happy to be corrected on this.
Quote from: Stefan The Viking (The Moose) on June 06, 2018, 09:08:59 PM
To say Fredericks is the best right back in England is pure fantasy given he's only been tested in the second highest league in England, he's not even played in the Premier League.
His crossing is not superior to Trippier, whose best attribute is his crossing and he's not better going forward or defending than Walker. Walker may make mistakes as do all players but all in all he's the superior player and that's why Pep Guardiola spent £50m on him and passed on signing Fredericks for free.
Fredericks had a great season but let's not make out that he's better than is.
Also, every fan wants Fulham to succeed but we're patient enough to see what the management have in store, so why can't you be too?
Pep Guardiola spent £50 on Stones who is absolutely useless - the reason? He must have a certain quota of "homegrown" players in his squad or be in breach of Premier League rules. The Spaniard knows nor cares not about the England team and has chosen poorly in my opinion.
And I am patient, I am also ambitious and hopeful, but one sees the same mistakes being made already. Mitrovic, Cairney, Sess, Ream and Fred were Fulham's stand out performers last season. How many will we have in the tougher division with the purse strings released?? This has started badly already.
Quote from: Nick Bateman on June 06, 2018, 10:32:46 PM
Quote from: Stefan The Viking (The Moose) on June 06, 2018, 09:08:59 PM
To say Fredericks is the best right back in England is pure fantasy given he's only been tested in the second highest league in England, he's not even played in the Premier League.
His crossing is not superior to Trippier, whose best attribute is his crossing and he's not better going forward or defending than Walker. Walker may make mistakes as do all players but all in all he's the superior player and that's why Pep Guardiola spent £50m on him and passed on signing Fredericks for free.
Fredericks had a great season but let's not make out that he's better than is.
Also, every fan wants Fulham to succeed but we're patient enough to see what the management have in store, so why can't you be too?
Pep Guardiola spent £50 on Stones who is absolutely useless - the reason? He must have a certain quota of "homegrown" players in his squad or be in breach of Premier League rules. The Spaniard knows nor cares not about the England team and has chosen poorly in my opinion.
And I am patient, I am also ambitious and hopeful, but one sees the same mistakes being made already. Mitrovic, Cairney, Sess, Ream and Fred were Fulham's stand out performers last season. How many will we have in the tougher division with the purse strings released?? This has started badly already.
Stones isn't useless, he's the best ball playing English centre back available and he was signed because of his potential.
He is error prone but you can train that out of them, look at Ream's transformation.
our Mr. NB "knows his footy" might be just as irritating in this iteration as he was in his former nom-de-numpty. I didn't think that was possible, but it just goes to show what you can achieve if you work at it -- constantly.
Sorry, I just don't see the worth of "FREDDO"
OK he skinned some defenders but frequently his delivery was panicked and non productive and for all of the
overlapping etc he never scored for us this season and blasted a few into to the Hammy End.
He was a good player for us and made some great defensive tackles but he was quite often caught out of position
and this is where Odoi bailed him out.
Sell him to West Ham and move on. It was his decision, the same decision that spoke after the final and appeared
to be looking forward to our promotion season.
Media speculation or not..............onwards Fulham FC
If he wants to move on so be it, but he ain't that good.
Steve Finnan, Roooofus, Voltz, even Konchelsky were better all round attackers/defenders.
There's plenty more where they cam from.
Quote from: rogerpinvirginia on June 07, 2018, 02:55:44 AM
Sell [Fredericks] to West Ham and move on.
I agree with your sentiments about Fredericks but I guess what irks quite a few FFC supporters is that we didn't 'manage' to sell him - at all.
I have a feeling that most of the emotion coming from the OP is concern that our recruitment folk are not up to the task and, to be fair, there is some evidence he may have a case. It is the Board's task to shut up any doubters by delivering a spot on window in the next several weeks.
Without Freds Piazon Ojo Norwood Kalas Targett and of course Mitro, we don't even have 11 players let alone a PL squad - very worrying and a lot of pressure on FFC to assemble a new team within the next 6 weeks over the WC
Makes perfect commercial sense to flog Sess I'm afraid .....especially with stricter PL rules on Loans
My goodness, all the WUM´s are about in full force. This is the reason I will not rise to their bait. The only future posts I will be making this summer will be only related to Fulham Official articles. All the bedroom journos are just a complete waste of time with their unfounded gossip. Enjoy this beautiful summer.
Quote from: Marcel_Gecov on June 04, 2018, 05:54:24 PM
Quote from: Nick Bateman on June 04, 2018, 05:49:00 PM
The board being Alistair Mackintosh who knows as much about football as I do on one fingernail. Cairney is on a Championship salary, that amount is well below the average of top stars in the PL.
I say make Fredericks the highest paid to encourage him to sign, or at least offer more then West Ham!!?? Then once services secured raise the wages of other stars in our squad accordingly. I am frankly SICK of this penny-pinching as soon as we hit the big time again - that's what got Fulham relegated last time!!
Then you artificially raising salaries above market rate to suit the needs of one alleged wantaway RB. That's not penny pinching thats horrendous business and also opens cans of worms for players to reject offers and become disillusioned. Why do that? Now if you are able to get a top-drawer player for more, then nobody can argue but Freds is largely untested. He has as much chance of being the next Scott Malone than Tripper.
It's a very valid point about artificially raising salaries; you could double or triple your wage bill for effectively the same players. Now I don't know if the Fredericks thing was managed correctly or not. I am sorry to see him go as I rated him highly. I thought his attacking runs were great and his pace crucified some defenders. But will premiership defenders have the added pace to cope with him? And I also wondered if we really capitalized on those runs? Was the final ball or shot of a quality that meant these were match-winning moments? Probably not frequently enough.
But back to his pay thing - he clearly wanted to maximize his earnings - no problem with that - but did we want to get into a bidding war with West Ham orchestrated by his agent? If we had increased our offer, would West Ham simply have raised theirs again, forcing us into another, artificially high, offer? And so on and so on. I really don't know, and I suspect we never will.
I think Fred probably felt that his stock is very high at the moment - will he have a better opportunity to move to the likes of West Ham? a 'big' established Prem club, compared to Fulham in most people's eyes, whatever we might think.
Whatever, we will never know the real reasons he wants to move, but maybe not just money, but if a player really wants to go, how can you stop him?
Offer a new contract, but hasn't Fred already been offered that?
Quote from: filham on June 06, 2018, 08:31:44 PM
Quote from: simplyfulham on June 06, 2018, 06:45:27 PM
Quote from: Nick Bateman on June 06, 2018, 03:01:27 PM
Ryan Fredericks is the best right wing-back in England
Wake up smell the coffee!
Get real. He's not even the best right back in London. You're clueless and have clearly poor judgment when it comes to assessing footballers.
Poor judgement in assessing footballers and no idea at all in balancing the books, please keep him well away from the boardroom.
Oh, I don't know. Could be a good fit at Villa!
Nick Bateman to draw the comparison you have re.Karius is disgusting at best, the medical people say he was
concussed before the mistakes, but why mention that if it does not fit your opinion. I believe an apology should be
in the offing but I will not hold my breath.
Ken 44
Quote from: ken 44 on June 07, 2018, 07:04:57 PM
Nick Bateman to draw the comparison you have re.Karius is disgusting at best, the medical people say he was
concussed before the mistakes, but why mention that if it does not fit your opinion. I believe an apology should be
in the offing but I will not hold my breath.
Ken 44
You can believe the Liverpool whining excuses if you are that gullible. They were unlucky with Salah getting a freak injury, but someone like Stuart Pearce would have played on with some strapping under his shirt!
Karius simply choked at the big occasion and there were plenty of warning signs in other matches. Klopp preferred his German counterpart over Mignolet a blunder on his part. Was rather funny however....
