The FST is looking for feedback on the clubs Loyalty Points system for tickets.
If you have ideas on how it could be improved or a different type of scheme.
Could I ask for constructive comments and not just 'it's rubbish' as that does not help in anyway. The real help comes from putting forward ideas and alternatives.
Thanks
Mike
In all honesty, I am not sure how it works, I seem to have had around 200-300 points for the last 3 seasons. Only attended a few away games during that period. I am not sure if points are weighted for midweek games and further distances for away games (I.e. Newcastle as opposed to Chelsea) but if not then they should be.
I don't have a problem with it personally, think it works pretty well. I attend all the home games and maybe half to 70% away games. Never had problems getting a ticket.
The only times it does cause issues is if the club give out more per season ticket than they should, i.e. 2 for a small allocation but again recently they seem to be getting this part right as well.
I think it works pretty well and never have a problem getting away tickets.
I think points should expire after a certain amount of seasons, I'll arbitrarily put that at 7 seasons.
As it is how can younger fans and newer fans access tickets in the same way as older fans? Its exclusive and perhaps discriminatory to count points ad infinitum.
I don't know when the loyalty points system was brought in, but its always been arbitrary as it doesn't count match attendance beyond the date of its introduction.
Hi Mike, would it be possible to post a summary of how the current system works (for those of us who are less than clear?).
decrease home points and up away points, weight away games on some cost/distance factor.
Quote from: Wolf on June 15, 2018, 09:56:12 AM
I think points should expire after a certain amount of seasons, I'll arbitrarily put that at 7 seasons.
As it is how can younger fans and newer fans access tickets in the same way as older fans? Its exclusive and perhaps discriminatory to count points ad infinitum.
I don't know when the loyalty points system was brought in, but its always been arbitrary as it doesn't count match attendance beyond the date of its introduction.
I'm sure in the small print somewhere it did mention that they expire. Not sure of the period for this though and if it is actually happening in practice.
The points are given for purchases of tickets per game home or away.
A season ticket gives you 50 points againt your name. Buying three St's does not give you 150 points.
Each game.. Home or away is allocated points by the club... Although the scoring system is something like the quiz show QI... No one really knows the criteria for the points.
There seems to be no rolling cutoff date although once did say it was three years, but don't think that's in operation.
Myself for example after having a ST for quite a while now and been to many games have just shy of 900 points. Others I know have close to 1200.
Having had nearly always had season ticket since being a teenager (I am now 52) I now share 2 season tickets with my brother and brother in law meaning we get to see the majority of the games throughout the season but not all. We all have children and they have many weekend commitments and I live down in Sussex. I got to the stage when the children were young I could not commit to a season ticket for myself for a few years up until 2009 and then we decided it would be easier to get just 2 and share them among the 3 of us. We can usually get extra tickets and away tickets if we want them. When we bought the tickets again the only problem was getting them near to other friends but over the course of a few seasons we achieved it. We usually buy all the extra tickets on one season ticket so one has many more points than the other this is the only problem we have the points. We would also like to buy one or two childrens seasons tickets but cannot get them near enough to our current seats which is a problem and stopping Fulham fc getting 2 more season ticket holders in the ground. Does the club keep a long term record of who has previously had a season ticket or who has attended games in the past?
When we were in the Championship if I could attend an away game it normally meant buying a ticket on the gate. It would have been nice to know if you could get these points added on production of the ticket. Like others on here I have approximately 350 points but have no idea how they are calculated!
Quote from: Southdowns White on June 15, 2018, 10:53:27 AM
Having had nearly always had season ticket since being a teenager (I am now 52) I now share 2 season tickets with my brother and brother in law meaning we get to see the majority of the games throughout the season but not all. We all have children and they have many weekend commitments and I live down in Sussex. I got to the stage when the children were young I could not commit to a season ticket for myself for a few years up until 2009 and then we decided it would be easier to get just 2 and share them among the 3 of us. We can usually get extra tickets and away tickets if we want them. When we bought the tickets again the only problem was getting them near to other friends but over the course of a few seasons we achieved it. We usually buy all the extra tickets on one season ticket so one has many more points than the other this is the only problem we have the points. We would also like to buy one or two childrens seasons tickets but cannot get them near enough to our current seats which is a problem and stopping Fulham fc getting 2 more season ticket holders in the ground. Does the club keep a long term record of who has previously had a season ticket or who has attended games in the past?
On the point about adding children's season tickets - I will want to do the same for my youngest and add one in. I really hope that it is not going to be problematic getting three together - I assume that I would just be able to deal with it in the appropriate seat move window and to be flexible about where we sit - have you tried that?
On topic - I think the loyalty points system works well, though a rolling cut off seems like a good idea.
Does anybody know how many points I need if want away tickets for Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool ? I guess it depends on the allocation, but what would be the ballpark number ?
Quote from: Pieter A'dam on June 15, 2018, 11:14:05 AM
Does anybody know how many points I need if want away tickets for Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool ? I guess it depends on the allocation, but what would be the ballpark number ?
We didn't sell out Chelsea away last time we met in The Premier League so I wouldn't worry too much.
Not really interested in going to away games.....so it seems wrong for me to pitch in....except to note that when we had a really big game at Wembley, they seemed not to be on the critical path to making sure we got 39,000 supporters who by and large should have been there. Turned out alright overall I guess.
It's influencing the season ticket pricing arrangements in a Riverside standless 2019/20 season that I'm more interested in. The window for that influence closes next spring.
I think it works well, and needs to be used for quite a few games. Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, West Ham, Palace and Bournemouth definitley, maybe at Brighton, Man United and Watford (although when we last played there when we lost 1-0 our turnout was appalling
Haven't really got any problems with the existing system. I was disappointed with not being able to select seats anywhere near where I wanted for Wembley having joined the queue as soon as it opened at 10:00am (sleuthing within developer tools indicated that I was 1,500th in the queue!), which perhaps could have been mitigated had those with higher Loyalty Points been given first dibs, but I appreciate the club had a lot higher number of tickets to shift than it is used to and only a limited time in which to do it.
I think a fairer system would be to split the count of Loyalty Points in two, one being Home Loyalty Points and the other being Away Loyalty Points. Then when a high demand game comes along the requirement for priority could be X Away Loyalty Points OR Y Home Loyalty Points. The idea being that it's fairer for those who travel to more away games to receive greater priority for away tickets than those who only go to home games.
I like the reward system in general. However as pointed out above, the point scores for each match seem random, and you get the same amount of points no matter how many tickets you order. For example, I live in Preston and have bought tickets for the matches at Deepdale for the three years we have been in the same division. Granted these matches have been at different times of the season, but for each year I have been a different amount of points. I received more points for 2 tickets in the 2016-17 season than I got for 6 tickets in the 2015-16 season (midweek match) or 4 tickets in the 2017-18 season.
would prefer more transparency as to how it works in full
Quote from: Riversider on June 15, 2018, 11:20:35 AM
Quote from: Pieter A'dam on June 15, 2018, 11:14:05 AM
Does anybody know how many points I need if want away tickets for Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool ? I guess it depends on the allocation, but what would be the ballpark number ?
We didn't sell out Chelsea away last time we met in The Premier League so I wouldn't worry too much.
From what I recall the tickets were £55.00 + booking, I refuse to pay that much. Now at £30.00, I will try and get tickets this year. Some of the Northern clubs prices were very fair for away supporters last time we were there I'm sure some were £20.00 and £22.00.
I would like to see them use loyalty points for prioritising season ticket sales - I don't think they are, so anyone with a booking history may get ahead of a 'real' fan.
If it ain't broke don't try and fix it
Quote from: KJS on June 15, 2018, 03:30:50 PM
If it ain't broke don't try and fix it
Indeed.
I am among those who feel that the current system works well as it is.
Quote from: Arthur on June 15, 2018, 04:39:05 PM
Quote from: KJS on June 15, 2018, 03:30:50 PM
If it ain't broke don't try and fix it
Indeed.
I am among those who feel that the current system works well as it is.
Personally I agree, but I do think a couple of improvements could be made. Clearer understanding of points for games and a rolling time limit.
I only have 71 points atm, what are the chances of me getting a ticket for (all) the London games away?
B
Quote from: Fulhamfan666 on June 15, 2018, 06:11:04 PM
I only have 71 points atm, what are the chances of me getting a ticket for (all) the London games away?
Best to buy a Membership now we're back in the Prem.
I had one last time, but generally didn't need it in the Championship, but am hoping to get one again this year - but they aren't available at the moment.
I put my name down on the 'waiting list', as shown on the Fulham website, several weeks ago, but haven't heard anything yet.
Presumably there isn't a limit to the number of memberships available? Or is there?
Yeah I had one for the season that's just passed. poo I can't remember if I'm on the waiting list or not....
Quote from: Fulhamfan666 on June 15, 2018, 06:50:49 PM
Yeah I had one for the season that's just passed. poo I can't remember if I'm on the waiting list or not....
If you had one last season, won't you just be able to renew it?
Quote from: RaySmith on June 15, 2018, 07:28:50 PM
Quote from: Fulhamfan666 on June 15, 2018, 06:50:49 PM
Yeah I had one for the season that's just passed. poo I can't remember if I'm on the waiting list or not....
If you had one last season, won't you just be able to renew it?
I have no idea
I would be happy for the points to be calculated over a say 5 year rolling period. The challenge for the Club might be how to reset everyone's points. On a slightly different point what I don't understand is how members are able to purchase tickets at the same time as season ticket holders?
ST holders usually have priority, and first choice don't they?
Quote from: RaySmith on June 15, 2018, 09:20:19 PM
ST holders usually have priority, and first choice don't they?
For some games I think but for the majority of away games last season they seemed to be available to both ST and members at the same time. Maybe it was because for the majority of games we were not going to sell out.
As I no longer go to many away games, having done so for many years when we were in the lower divisions, I don't expect to necessarily come near the top of the pile when tickets come up for some away games, but i think some attention should be paid to one's length of support. For instance I have had a season ticket since the 1979/80 (and attended my first game in 1962) season and it did rankle a couple of years ago when I was told I didn't have enough 'loyalty' points to buy a ticket for our game at Brentford. Having said that, I am not sure of the logistics of what I'm suggesting.
It suits me as it is but along with many others I don't understand exactly how it works . I often buy a ticket for a pal and not sure what amount of points are awarded . Mike do you know more clearly how they are awarded?
I've no problem at moment...you go to games you get points simples!!
Personally I would like distance travelled to be a consideration as there are three of us who have a 200 mile plus round trip for every home game......and I don't doubt some will have more miles to cover.
Quote from: Tonywa on June 15, 2018, 10:35:00 PM
As I no longer go to many away games, having done so for many years when we were in the lower divisions, I don't expect to necessarily come near the top of the pile when tickets come up for some away games, but i think some attention should be paid to one's length of support. For instance I have had a season ticket since the 1979/80 (and attended my first game in 1962) season and it did rankle a couple of years ago when I was told I didn't have enough 'loyalty' points to buy a ticket for our game at Brentford. Having said that, I am not sure of the logistics of what I'm suggesting.
I absolutely see your point, but a 20 year old who has seen Fulham at every game, home and away, since they were 15 would argue that they deserve the tickets for Brentford (or Bournemouth, as it may be this year) more than you. It's a tough call and I would like to know the Club's system. My preference would be that they have a rolling points total that considers games from around 5-6 years. I think a youngster who busts a gut to get to every match for 4-5 years deserves it more than a season ticket holder of 20 years who maybe only makes half a dozen away games a season. But others may feel different. I don't think it's a pressing problem at the moment; whatever system the Club uses seems to be accepted by the majority as fair.
Quote from: Scrumpy on June 17, 2018, 12:24:33 AM
Quote from: Tonywa on June 15, 2018, 10:35:00 PM
As I no longer go to many away games, having done so for many years when we were in the lower divisions, I don't expect to necessarily come near the top of the pile when tickets come up for some away games, but i think some attention should be paid to one's length of support. For instance I have had a season ticket since the 1979/80 (and attended my first game in 1962) season and it did rankle a couple of years ago when I was told I didn't have enough 'loyalty' points to buy a ticket for our game at Brentford. Having said that, I am not sure of the logistics of what I'm suggesting.
I absolutely see your point, but a 20 year old who has seen Fulham at every game, home and away, since they were 15 would argue that they deserve the tickets for Brentford (or Bournemouth, as it may be this year) more than you. It's a tough call and I would like to know the Club's system. My preference would be that they have a rolling points total that considers games from around 5-6 years. I think a youngster who busts a gut to get to every match for 4-5 years deserves it more than a season ticket holder of 20 years who maybe only makes half a dozen away games a season. But others may feel different. I don't think it's a pressing problem at the moment; whatever system the Club uses seems to be accepted by the majority as fair.
Perhaps a solution to the rolling booking history would be to "weight" the points each season.
Every season is valid but say the past 5 years get a weighting of 1 , from 2013 backwards is 0.5 thus to implore everyone from olden eras to keep going to games and not rest on their booking history of ages ago when so many are busting a gut to go now week in week out.
But should there not be a standard points per game instead of different points ? Offering same points in same games would increase likelihood of everyone going to every game, commitments depending etc
It's a suggestion to a system which doesn't necesssarily feel broken at the moment, mainly because the lack of sellouts but it's better obviously to optimistically pre-empt the situation than to deal with complaints if and when it does happen
I dont particularly think there's anything wrong with the system.
Whilst it would be nice to understand how they work out the points for a given game (especially with the capped away prices now and what that could do for our away attendances), I do wonder if knowing the system would allow people to manipulate their games in such a way to maximise points
Quote from: Fulham Gentleman on June 15, 2018, 11:55:05 AM
I like the reward system in general. However as pointed out above, the point scores for each match seem random, and you get the same amount of points no matter how many tickets you order. For example, I live in Preston and have bought tickets for the matches at Deepdale for the three years we have been in the same division. Granted these matches have been at different times of the season, but for each year I have been a different amount of points. I received more points for 2 tickets in the 2016-17 season than I got for 6 tickets in the 2015-16 season (midweek match) or 4 tickets in the 2017-18 season.
Just a guess, but the club possibly allocates loyalty points depending on how popular they think the game will be. The more popular the game, the fewer loyalty points it would accrue, and that could be influenced by timing and location. Preston away on a Tuesday night in November might, for example, be less attractive than Bournemouth on a bank holiday weekend so reward those going to Preston with more loyalty points? Of course that becomes a bit subjective and may also depend on how well we are doing in the league, so could vary quite a lot.
In that case I deserve about 10,000 points for Lincoln away during a snowstorm on Boxing Day 1994. Lol! the worst Fulham performance I have ever seen as Simon Morgan and Micky Adams would agree. ;-)
Quote from: Scrumpy on June 17, 2018, 12:24:33 AM
Quote from: Tonywa on June 15, 2018, 10:35:00 PM
As I no longer go to many away games, having done so for many years when we were in the lower divisions, I don't expect to necessarily come near the top of the pile when tickets come up for some away games, but i think some attention should be paid to one's length of support. For instance I have had a season ticket since the 1979/80 (and attended my first game in 1962) season and it did rankle a couple of years ago when I was told I didn't have enough 'loyalty' points to buy a ticket for our game at Brentford. Having said that, I am not sure of the logistics of what I'm suggesting.
I absolutely see your point, but a 20 year old who has seen Fulham at every game, home and away, since they were 15 would argue that they deserve the tickets for Brentford (or Bournemouth, as it may be this year) more than you. It's a tough call and I would like to know the Club's system. My preference would be that they have a rolling points total that considers games from around 5-6 years. I think a youngster who busts a gut to get to every match for 4-5 years deserves it more than a season ticket holder of 20 years who maybe only makes half a dozen away games a season. But others may feel different. I don't think it's a pressing problem at the moment; whatever system the Club uses seems to be accepted by the majority as fair.
No I really can't argue with you and would not wish to deprive someone who currently travels away every game throughout the season of a ticket.
Thanks Mike for asking for feedback.
Any scheme needs to be transparent so for me it's all about having simple rules, clearly communicated, that state:
1. What the purpose of the scheme is
2. How points are accrued
3. How points can be taken
4. When they expire
All good feedback and thanks to everyone. If there is ine message that comes through it's transparency on how it works. So while putting everything together and discussing it when needed with club, that's one area I'll ask the trust to push for.
Good work Mike.
Do other Premier League clubs run a points system? If so, is it run differently from FFC?
