As much as I love Slavisa, he's doing our defence no favours to keep chopping and changing the back four every week. We need to find our best and stick with it if we're going to improve it.
Personally I think it's: TFM Mason MLM Bryan.
I think this exactly what he's trying to figure out, one of the problems with signing players so late in the window is you have to use competitive games to figure them out and bed them in. Slav makes it clear at the start of every window he wants signings in early, it rarely happens, and this is the result.
Quote from: Chutney on September 17, 2018, 01:40:09 PM
I think this exactly what he's trying to figure out, one of the problems with signing players so late in the window is you have to use competitive games to figure them out and bed them in. Slav makes it clear at the start of every window he wants signings in early, it rarely happens, and this is the result.
It rarely happens because we chased much higher calibre players.
Would you rather rush in Chris Samba, or take time and sign Alfie Mawson?
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on September 17, 2018, 02:11:59 PM
Quote from: Chutney on September 17, 2018, 01:40:09 PM
I think this exactly what he's trying to figure out, one of the problems with signing players so late in the window is you have to use competitive games to figure them out and bed them in. Slav makes it clear at the start of every window he wants signings in early, it rarely happens, and this is the result.
It rarely happens because we chased much higher calibre players.
Would you rather rush in Chris Samba, or take time and sign Alfie Mawson?
Whats your point?
My point is it costs us points at the start of every season, which is does. We might well make them up later when the players are bedded in, we need to give them time.
Quote from: Chutney on September 17, 2018, 02:34:35 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on September 17, 2018, 02:11:59 PM
Quote from: Chutney on September 17, 2018, 01:40:09 PM
I think this exactly what he's trying to figure out, one of the problems with signing players so late in the window is you have to use competitive games to figure them out and bed them in. Slav makes it clear at the start of every window he wants signings in early, it rarely happens, and this is the result.
It rarely happens because we chased much higher calibre players.
Would you rather rush in Chris Samba, or take time and sign Alfie Mawson?
Whats your point?
My point is it costs us points at the start of every season, which is does. We might well make them up later when the players are bedded in, we need to give them time.
Unfortunately to an extent the market dictates when you can get a player and often you will see other teams purchasing players just before they sell theres or very soon after (Rondon after Mitro for example). We arent in a bubble and all clubs leave it until last minute. We werent even the worst in this regard, poor Mourinho bless him, couldnt get any CBs...
But he has already stated that he isn't looking for a settled 11 but a team for each game. His idea is each game is different. Clearly the full backs are going to be constantly altered. The centre halves too. So his idea is not to have a settle back 4.
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 17, 2018, 02:38:38 PM
But he has already stated that he isn't looking for a settled 11 but a team for each game. His idea is each game is different. Clearly the full backs are going to be constantly altered. The centre halves too. So his idea is not to have a settle back 4.
Managers like Fergie, Mourinho etc have been doing this forever. Makes sense.
If his idea is not to have a settled back 4 what happens to the rest of the team? Carnage comes to mind.
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 17, 2018, 02:38:38 PM
But he has already stated that he isn't looking for a settled 11 but a team for each game. His idea is each game is different. Clearly the full backs are going to be constantly altered. The centre halves too. So his idea is not to have a settle back 4.
If that really is intentional then it's ill advised in my opinion. Man Utd have been defensively vulnerable by their standards due largely to Jose constantly rotating the defence. I think all four defenders need to be in perfect sync if you're playing an open game, which we are.
Let there t that we need a settled back four but of course it has to be one of quality, no use trying to stitch together players who not out of the top draw.
Can you imagine Roy saying I am going to fiddle around with Hughes .and Hangeland for half a season to see how different defenders work together or in 1975 Stock thinking about messing about with Moore and Lacey. Now could you ever imagine McDonand splitting up the dream partnership of Brown and Gale.
It begins to look as if we were late in buying our defenders, missed out on Targett for sure, bought an expensive job lot which Jocanovic is trying to make into more than the sum of the individual parts
Only 5 games have gone, Odoi was suspended, Mawson was injured and Ream still is.
Quote from: Holders on September 17, 2018, 04:41:39 PM
Only 5 games have gone, Odoi was suspended, Mawson was injured and Ream still is.
Precisely - we need to be patient and trust in Slav
Quote from: HV71 on September 17, 2018, 04:47:17 PM
Quote from: Holders on September 17, 2018, 04:41:39 PM
Only 5 games have gone, Odoi was suspended, Mawson was injured and Ream still is.
Precisely - we need to be patient and trust in Slav
Plus Bryan and MLM are finding their feet.
Quote from: HV71 on September 17, 2018, 04:47:17 PM
Quote from: Holders on September 17, 2018, 04:41:39 PM
Only 5 games have gone, Odoi was suspended, Mawson was injured and Ream still is.
Precisely - we need to be patient and trust in Slav
I understand the fact that only 5 games have come and gone so too early to make too many conclusions. But I never understand the 'Trust in Slav' rhetoric. I always question every decision by the so called experts. In Politics, medicine, sport. Trust no one as somebody once said. But then I do go overboard with the warm fuzzy feeling I have when things work out in football. Not a feeling I have with politicians or Doctors.
Quote from: Stefan The Viking (The Moose) on September 17, 2018, 01:09:12 PM
As much as I love Slavisa, he's doing our defence no favours to keep chopping and changing the back four every week. We need to find our best and stick with it if we're going to improve it.
Personally I think it's: TFM Mason MLM Bryan.
We just have to accept that to find the 'best' back 4 will take more than 5 early games (interupted by an international break).
People seem to have made their minds up already for instance that MLM is 'in' and Chambers is 'out', and Ream hasn't even had a chance to play yet.
If it takes 15 games, so be it, but if Slav does not know yet, then it doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't know what he is doing - more so that with the players available it is not so obvious.
Let's give him time, and to be frank, based on some of the other teams down below us at the moment, we do have that.
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 17, 2018, 05:38:13 PM
Quote from: HV71 on September 17, 2018, 04:47:17 PM
Quote from: Holders on September 17, 2018, 04:41:39 PM
Only 5 games have gone, Odoi was suspended, Mawson was injured and Ream still is.
Precisely - we need to be patient and trust in Slav
I understand the fact that only 5 games have come and gone so too early to make too many conclusions. But I never understand the 'Trust in Slav' rhetoric. I always question every decision by the so called experts. In Politics, medicine, sport. Trust no one as somebody once said. But then I do go overboard with the warm fuzzy feeling I have when things work out in football. Not a feeling I have with politicians or Doctors.
I have to agree with Lighthouse here on all his salient points. I can never understand this trust in the Manager melachy.
Try not to take the so called experts word for it, it's always prudent to ask questions and think for yourself.
There have been many errors of judgement by qualified professionals.
Two examples come straight to mind of poor decision making.
1) When Abraham Lincoln said, ime fed up kicking around the house let's go take in a show.
2) Also when Olaf The Hairy, Warrior King of the Vikings, ordered 80,000 War Helmets with the Horns sticking out from the inside.
I understand the philosophy of utilising players for certain games, but I just fail to understand why he cannot see what we all see that Sess is not a left back, and it just depresses his talents.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on September 17, 2018, 05:56:44 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 17, 2018, 05:38:13 PM
Quote from: HV71 on September 17, 2018, 04:47:17 PM
Quote from: Holders on September 17, 2018, 04:41:39 PM
Only 5 games have gone, Odoi was suspended, Mawson was injured and Ream still is.
Precisely - we need to be patient and trust in Slav
I understand the fact that only 5 games have come and gone so too early to make too many conclusions. But I never understand the 'Trust in Slav' rhetoric. I always question every decision by the so called experts. In Politics, medicine, sport. Trust no one as somebody once said. But then I do go overboard with the warm fuzzy feeling I have when things work out in football. Not a feeling I have with politicians or Doctors.
I have to agree with Lighthouse here on all his salient points. I can never understand this trust in the Manager melachy.
Try not to take the so called experts word for it, it's always prudent to ask questions and think for yourself.
There have been many errors of judgement by qualified professionals.
Two examples come straight to mind of poor decision making.
1) When Abraham Lincoln said, ime fed up kicking around the house let's go take in a show.
2) Also when Olaf The Hairy, Warrior King of the Vikings, ordered 80,000 War Helmets with the Horns sticking out from the inside.
Well you can go through your life trusting no one - which Personally I would find a bit sad. I would also admit I admit it is wrong not to question at all but for me 'trust is like a wall ' and people have to build it before I completely put my faith in them. Slav has done that for me - last season began slowly as he tinkered to find the team he wanted to play his way. He did that and gave us success with 'bells on' and over his tenure we have also played football that entertains as well as being effective. He directly sees the squad on a day by day basis - we don't - so I prefer to trust his judgement over anyone else's .
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on September 17, 2018, 05:56:44 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 17, 2018, 05:38:13 PM
Quote from: HV71 on September 17, 2018, 04:47:17 PM
Quote from: Holders on September 17, 2018, 04:41:39 PM
Only 5 games have gone, Odoi was suspended, Mawson was injured and Ream still is.
Precisely - we need to be patient and trust in Slav
I understand the fact that only 5 games have come and gone so too early to make too many conclusions. But I never understand the 'Trust in Slav' rhetoric. I always question every decision by the so called experts. In Politics, medicine, sport. Trust no one as somebody once said. But then I do go overboard with the warm fuzzy feeling I have when things work out in football. Not a feeling I have with politicians or Doctors.
I have to agree with Lighthouse here on all his salient points. I can never understand this trust in the Manager melachy.
Try not to take the so called experts word for it, it's always prudent to ask questions and think for yourself.
There have been many errors of judgement by qualified professionals.
Two examples come straight to mind of poor decision making.
1) When Abraham Lincoln said, ime fed up kicking around the house let's go take in a show.
2) Also when Olaf The Hairy, Warrior King of the Vikings, ordered 80,000 War Helmets with the Horns sticking out from the inside.
Viking helmets did not have horns, inside or out.
Quote from: Holders on September 17, 2018, 06:32:12 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on September 17, 2018, 05:56:44 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 17, 2018, 05:38:13 PM
Quote from: HV71 on September 17, 2018, 04:47:17 PM
Quote from: Holders on September 17, 2018, 04:41:39 PM
Only 5 games have gone, Odoi was suspended, Mawson was injured and Ream still is.
Precisely - we need to be patient and trust in Slav
I understand the fact that only 5 games have come and gone so too early to make too many conclusions. But I never understand the 'Trust in Slav' rhetoric. I always question every decision by the so called experts. In Politics, medicine, sport. Trust no one as somebody once said. But then I do go overboard with the warm fuzzy feeling I have when things work out in football. Not a feeling I have with politicians or Doctors.
I have to agree with Lighthouse here on all his salient points. I can never understand this trust in the Manager melachy.
Try not to take the so called experts word for it, it's always prudent to ask questions and think for yourself.
There have been many errors of judgement by qualified professionals.
Two examples come straight to mind of poor decision making.
1) When Abraham Lincoln said, ime fed up kicking around the house let's go take in a show.
2) Also when Olaf The Hairy, Warrior King of the Vikings, ordered 80,000 War Helmets with the Horns sticking out from the inside.
Viking helmets did not have horns, inside or out.
I did not say they were Viking Helmets oh wise one, I said they were War Helmets.
He just happened to be the Warrior King of the Vikings, nobody said they were going to wear them.
You must keep up and pay more attention.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on September 17, 2018, 07:16:18 PM
Quote from: Holders on September 17, 2018, 06:32:12 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on September 17, 2018, 05:56:44 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 17, 2018, 05:38:13 PM
Quote from: HV71 on September 17, 2018, 04:47:17 PM
Quote from: Holders on September 17, 2018, 04:41:39 PM
Only 5 games have gone, Odoi was suspended, Mawson was injured and Ream still is.
Precisely - we need to be patient and trust in Slav
I understand the fact that only 5 games have come and gone so too early to make too many conclusions. But I never understand the 'Trust in Slav' rhetoric. I always question every decision by the so called experts. In Politics, medicine, sport. Trust no one as somebody once said. But then I do go overboard with the warm fuzzy feeling I have when things work out in football. Not a feeling I have with politicians or Doctors.
I have to agree with Lighthouse here on all his salient points. I can never understand this trust in the Manager melachy.
Try not to take the so called experts word for it, it's always prudent to ask questions and think for yourself.
There have been many errors of judgement by qualified professionals.
Two examples come straight to mind of poor decision making.
1) When Abraham Lincoln said, ime fed up kicking around the house let's go take in a show.
2) Also when Olaf The Hairy, Warrior King of the Vikings, ordered 80,000 War Helmets with the Horns sticking out from the inside.
Viking helmets did not have horns, inside or out.
I did not say they were Viking Helmets oh wise one, I said they were War Helmets.
He just happened to be the Warrior King of the Vikings, nobody said they were going to wear them.
You must keep up and pay more attention.
It's a common fallacy - blame Bayreuth or Hollywood.
Quote from: Holders on September 17, 2018, 07:18:29 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on September 17, 2018, 07:16:18 PM
Quote from: Holders on September 17, 2018, 06:32:12 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on September 17, 2018, 05:56:44 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 17, 2018, 05:38:13 PM
Quote from: HV71 on September 17, 2018, 04:47:17 PM
Quote from: Holders on September 17, 2018, 04:41:39 PM
Only 5 games have gone, Odoi was suspended, Mawson was injured and Ream still is.
Precisely - we need to be patient and trust in Slav
I understand the fact that only 5 games have come and gone so too early to make too many conclusions. But I never understand the 'Trust in Slav' rhetoric. I always question every decision by the so called experts. In Politics, medicine, sport. Trust no one as somebody once said. But then I do go overboard with the warm fuzzy feeling I have when things work out in football. Not a feeling I have with politicians or Doctors.
I have to agree with Lighthouse here on all his salient points. I can never understand this trust in the Manager melachy.
Try not to take the so called experts word for it, it's always prudent to ask questions and think for yourself.
There have been many errors of judgement by qualified professionals.
Two examples come straight to mind of poor decision making.
1) When Abraham Lincoln said, ime fed up kicking around the house let's go take in a show.
2) Also when Olaf The Hairy, Warrior King of the Vikings, ordered 80,000 War Helmets with the Horns sticking out from the inside.
Viking helmets did not have horns, inside or out.
I did not say they were Viking Helmets oh wise one, I said they were War Helmets.
He just happened to be the Warrior King of the Vikings, nobody said they were going to wear them.
You must keep up and pay more attention.
It's a common fallacy - blame Bayreuth or Hollywood.
I agree, personally I blame Neil Warlock.
I think I could blame Warnock for everything - though his parents should take most of the flak for not taking precautions
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 17, 2018, 02:38:38 PM
But he has already stated that he isn't looking for a settled 11 but a team for each game. His idea is each game is different. Clearly the full backs are going to be constantly altered. The centre halves too. So his idea is not to have a settle back 4.
IMHO we still need to find a Van Dijk (without the arrogance) to play alongside Alfie
Quote from: Fernhurst on September 18, 2018, 05:27:39 AM
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 17, 2018, 02:38:38 PM
But he has already stated that he isn't looking for a settled 11 but a team for each game. His idea is each game is different. Clearly the full backs are going to be constantly altered. The centre halves too. So his idea is not to have a settle back 4.
IMHO we still need to find a Van Dijk (without the arrogance) to play alongside Alfie
If we have a spare £75 million lying around.
I don't for one minute believe you can fix a defensive back line without also adjusting the midfield and perhaps even the attack to compliment the individual components of each.
Lighthouse mentions the 'trust in Slav' mantra but then ruins his argument by quoting one of the most imprecise professions there are – politics. Politicians are successful from the moment they secure a seat and may unleash havoc until kicked out by another vote. At least doctors must make judgements based on knowledge of conditions and adjust the former as the latter becomes clearer. Professional football likewise has a condition – results and league position – that need constant reflection and review, with adjustments in coaching teams, player routines, skills and partnerships in a team.
We are barely a month into a season (especially allowing for the International break) with a fairly large quantity of unknowns even among players who have had the odd really good or really poor performances. The blending in of player patterns and partnerships is always thrown around by 'injury', changes in personnel in one area causing other problems to ensue. And, of course, the coaching personnel have changed too, meaning another set of unknown strengths and weaknesses.
And so I always find it helpful to simply look at what appears to be similar evidence of things that have happened before and suggest the 'team' we will see in 'however long it takes' will be a much better guide to what we have, what we lack, and where we are across the whole length and width of our beloved football club. And so please, when you argue about this defence or that defence, this midfield or that midfield, this player or that player, do have a little regard for how combinations smoothly engage or not as the case may be.
Had this team been playing together for a couple of years then the arguments may have much more merit, but that isn't the case. I 'trust' that SJ will sort it out because I cannot for the life of me think of anyone who'd do a better job without causing major disruption to almost every other aspect of running a football team.
The latest training at the Cottage pictures and film show Ream is running and joining in. We don't know how fit he is. But after I understand was a back problem he is at least shown running and stretching.
Warnock is an abrasive character in funny way I like him.
Fans have no power or authority to remove a manager or force them into certain decisions. Fans can only bloviate and hope the owner or board are moved to do something. That's where trusting the manager comes in. He isn't a politician to be voted out of office or a doctor you can choose to not see. He is the Fulham manager today. He's the football guy in charge. All there is hope.
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on September 18, 2018, 06:42:53 PM
Fans have no power or authority to remove a manager or force them into certain decisions. Fans can only bloviate and hope the owner or board are moved to do something. That's where trusting the manager comes in. He isn't a politician to be voted out of office or a doctor you can choose to not see. He is the Fulham manager today. He's the football guy in charge. All there is hope.
Simply not true. If a manager is doing a poor job. Like a politician the fans will stop voting for him. They will simply stop turning out in numbers. They will voice their annoyance during games and put pressure on players. No different to Politicians. A doctor who makes mistakes or has a poorly run practice or doesn't inspire confidence in his patients loses them and they will turn elsewhere if he or she is very bad. In fact trust in anything goes only so far. If a doctor has misdiagnosed something or over prescribed a drug and ruined my life. I no longer can put trust in any medical professional. If a politician lets me down and cause me aggro. Then I tend not to trust any politicians. The same with football managers and all human beings. Only those who have never had people make decisions on their behalf and it turns out badly will understand. But for those that have. Putting your trust in so called experts and having people tell you we must blindly trust them and offer no criticism is simply bizarre. Whatever their profession.
While the ultimate decision is always somebody in the hierarchy. The patient, voter or fan does hold sway.
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 18, 2018, 07:47:54 PM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on September 18, 2018, 06:42:53 PM
Fans have no power or authority to remove a manager or force them into certain decisions. Fans can only bloviate and hope the owner or board are moved to do something. That's where trusting the manager comes in. He isn't a politician to be voted out of office or a doctor you can choose to not see. He is the Fulham manager today. He's the football guy in charge. All there is hope.
Simply not true. If a manager is doing a poor job. Like a politician the fans will stop voting for him. They will simply stop turning out in numbers. They will voice their annoyance during games and put pressure on players. No different to Politicians. A doctor who makes mistakes or has a poorly run practice or doesn't inspire confidence in his patients loses them and they will turn elsewhere if he or she is very bad. In fact trust in anything goes only so far. If a doctor has misdiagnosed something or over prescribed a drug and ruined my life. I no longer can put trust in any medical professional. If a politician lets me down and cause me aggro. Then I tend not to trust any politicians. The same with football managers and all human beings. Only those who have never had people make decisions on their behalf and it turns out badly will understand. But for those that have. Putting your trust in so called experts and having people tell you we must blindly trust them and offer no criticism is simply bizarre. Whatever their profession.
While the ultimate decision is always somebody in the hierarchy. The patient, voter or fan does hold sway.
You seem to actually agree with what I'm saying. Fans can only voice their opinions, protest, or boycott. That's not power... that's hope. Managers aren't elected and if you are a fan of the club you will show up regardless of who is the manager... unless you're boycotting or quitting on the club. Did anti-Wenger fans fail to show up to even away games for Arsenal? No... they did not.
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on September 18, 2018, 08:40:19 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 18, 2018, 07:47:54 PM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on September 18, 2018, 06:42:53 PM
Fans have no power or authority to remove a manager or force them into certain decisions. Fans can only bloviate and hope the owner or board are moved to do something. That's where trusting the manager comes in. He isn't a politician to be voted out of office or a doctor you can choose to not see. He is the Fulham manager today. He's the football guy in charge. All there is hope.
Simply not true. If a manager is doing a poor job. Like a politician the fans will stop voting for him. They will simply stop turning out in numbers. They will voice their annoyance during games and put pressure on players. No different to Politicians. A doctor who makes mistakes or has a poorly run practice or doesn't inspire confidence in his patients loses them and they will turn elsewhere if he or she is very bad. In fact trust in anything goes only so far. If a doctor has misdiagnosed something or over prescribed a drug and ruined my life. I no longer can put trust in any medical professional. If a politician lets me down and cause me aggro. Then I tend not to trust any politicians. The same with football managers and all human beings. Only those who have never had people make decisions on their behalf and it turns out badly will understand. But for those that have. Putting your trust in so called experts and having people tell you we must blindly trust them and offer no criticism is simply bizarre. Whatever their profession.
While the ultimate decision is always somebody in the hierarchy. The patient, voter or fan does hold sway.
You seem to actually agree with what I'm saying. Fans can only voice their opinions, protest, or boycott. That's not power... that's hope. Managers aren't elected and if you are a fan of the club you will show up regardless of who is the manager... unless you're boycotting or quitting on the club. Did anti-Wenger fans fail to show up to even away games for Arsenal? No... they did not.
Well we are getting into semantics. Is it hope or power that I stick with a political party that has failed in everything but is better than another political party that my loyalty wouldn't allow me to vote for? Loyalty to a failing club or the NHS or Political Party doesn't change the fact that we have power as a collection of individuals if we choose to act on it. If however our loyalty to a particular cause outweighs the logic of changing things for the better then we end up with the system we have. A failing NHS. a failing democracy and a football league and world football organisation run by a group of self serving people. We have the power but you are right in saying loyalty or false loyalty to certain things may stop us acting for the better. Anti Wenger fans had the power to voice their disapproval and often did. But turning up and being loyal to the club made their individual power less dramatic. But they had the power if they wanted to use it.
I would rather settle for a settled back four.
Well, a football manager stands and fall by results.
Whatever critcisms we make of Slavisa, if he keeps us I the Prem this season,, or does even better than mere survival, most will still back him.
Last season , some on here were questioning him - talking of sacking him right up to almost the halfway point of the season, then he became a hero.
But that glow doesn't seem to have lasted long, but if we begin to get decent results, he will be a hero again.
I do trust Slavisa, and think whatever decisions he makes re Fulham, based on his professional experience, are going to be better and more well informed than mine.
I don't trust doctors, though, or politicians, generally - I don't think they always take decisions based on my best interests, but I do think Slavisa will take decisions based on what he thinks are the best interests of FFC - after all, he stands and falls purely by results, whereas when did a doctor get sacked, even for serious errors causing great distress and suffering - rarely is the answer, they usually get away with it, and with an arrogant attitude towards those they are supposed to care for, and as for politicians....!
Totally agree with Stefan,this is our best back four without ream,and slav should stick with them
