Did we actually pay 30 million for this guy.
Lost the ball about 6 times in first 10 mins,slow to think...Think they might have seen us coming.
Never mind depressing train journey home.😂
We got mugged. He strolls around the middle like Snoop Dog. Give the ball away cheaper than Snoop Dog gives away weed.
He has been so far a dissapointment. A lot of money for so little return.
I was just going to post this thread myself..
It seems that we don't want to play with a defence. If you're going to do that, you can't have a central midfielder who gives the ball away constantly.
Without being funny, I cannot think of anything useful he has done this season? Literally my only memory of Anguissa so far is giving the ball way.
Maybe it's like poker where you remember all the hands you get beat out on, but can't remember any of the winners? I don't think so though, I think he's just crap.
Yet the real collapse happened after he got pulled from the midfield. He was poor, but I don't know why he's been singled out. The entire midfield was poor...
3 goals conceded AFTER Andre was subbed.
He wasn't the only poor player. Seri scored a worldly against Burnley. What has he done since then? Vietto's first touch is crap. He gets bodied off the ball easily.
Question all the signings. Not just Anguissa.
Poor and the whole back 5 behind him is mid-table championship standard. For all the money spent in that area we have gone backwards by losing Kalas, Fredericks and Targett. 21 goals conceded in 8 games... equates to 100 over the full 38-game season if we carry on. For comparison the infamous Derby team relegated with only 11 points conceded 89.
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on October 07, 2018, 02:04:41 PMHe was poor, but I don't know why he's been singled out. The entire midfield was poor...
I wouldn't dispute that, but he's been particularly apalling so far.
I think it's even harder for someone like him as he doesn't ever score goals and that's a good way to change people's perspective, but he won't do that, so he's much more likely to get singled out for his mistakes, and he makes a lot of them.
I also wouldn't dispute that Seri likes to give the ball away and is crap at taking corners. Vietto hasn't done much, but he shows very ocassional flashes. I guess the way I look at it is that I can see potential in both of those two, I could see how they could be viewed as good player.
Anguissa on the other hand..
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on October 07, 2018, 02:04:41 PM
Yet the real collapse happened after he got pulled from the midfield. He was poor, but I don't know why he's been singled out. The entire midfield was poor...
3 goals conceded AFTER Andre was subbed.
He wasn't the only poor player.
We conceded them due to the manager going with the back four after their second.
Anguissa job is to hold it in midfield,I've lost count how many times in all the games I've attended where he has had the ball taken off of him.
After what they presented today I think Anguissa, Christie, Ream and Bettinelli won't be among the starting 11 in the next few matches.
I don't agree, I think he has looked good up to today. We effectively had 2 midfielders v one of the best footballing sides in the division. As soon as I saw the team, I tweeted we would be overrun in midfield.
Some very good points highlighted by all of you, and the point about the defences responsibilities behind Anguissa is so relevant, where do we go from here.
Today was a massive lesson for everyone at Fulham, with no obvious cure for our shortcomings in the short term.
If it wasn't important before, our next matches v Cardiff and Huddersfield have all become six point Cup Finals, and not forgetting scrapping points against the more fancied teams.
It was not just the defeat today, it was the manner of the defeat.
A disastrous second half in so many ways.
But nothing we did not already know, but what worries me is that we are not learning from or improving our shortcomings.
he's has done very little so far this season. does not see that motivated to be honest - not much energy
I actually thought he broke the play up well, which is his primary job. Yes he needs to work on speeding up releasing the ball, but id still take him over mcdonald all day long. Big kmac is just to slow for this division
Agreed that he seems to struggle with the pace of the Premier League and is disappointing.
However he was at least involved .
The game seemed to go round McDonald when he cam on
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Quote from: Riverside on October 07, 2018, 02:40:12 PM
Agreed that he seems to struggle with the pace of the Premier League and is disappointing.
However he was at least involved .
The game seemed to go round McDonald when he cam on
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Well, that's the thing isn't it.
Anguissa is better than McDonald but Fulham need a holding mid better than Anguissa.
I too didn't think he was more poor than any of the other midfield players today, but the team needs him adjust faster than he has. And you can look at him physically and see he's too lanky and not strong enough for the league yet.
It's not that hard to look bad when the guy next to you is an absolute superstar taking all the plaudits...
He's got huge potential, I'd rather make a judgement after our run of "winnable" games coming up
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Quote from: milis on October 07, 2018, 02:10:37 PM
After what they presented today I think Anguissa, Christie, Ream and Bettinelli won't be among the starting 11 in the next few matches.
Agree about the first two, but what did Ream and especially Betts do wrong?
As I posted last week - can't have Schurrle and Vienetta - leaves midfield too weak
Quote from: Statto on October 07, 2018, 02:05:16 PM
Poor and the whole back 5 behind him is mid-table championship standard. For all the money spent in that area we have gone backwards by losing Kalas, Fredericks and Targett. 21 goals conceded in 8 games... equates to 100 over the full 38-game season if we carry on. For comparison the infamous Derby team relegated with only 11 points conceded 89.
Anguissa and Seri are just not producing the goods in midfield, best we get back to Cairney, Johansen and MacDonald who were so good last season.
I thought at first that Anguissa 'switched off ' far too often but after today I have changed my mind in that I don't ever think his brain is actually ' switched on '. He has huge potential but until he actually engages his brain , concentrates on the job in hand, he may as well play in stocking feet for as much use as he is now. I rarely get on a players back but this guy is so frustrating- FFS man think !
Quote from: FulhamElite on October 07, 2018, 03:22:45 PM
Quote from: milis on October 07, 2018, 02:10:37 PM
After what they presented today I think Anguissa, Christie, Ream and Bettinelli won't be among the starting 11 in the next few matches.
Agree about the first two, but what did Ream and especially Betts do wrong?
Not a lot. Nothing in Ream's case, Betts maybe could have done better with their second but I need to see it again.
I think my difficulty is figuring out just what Anguissa brings to the team. If I could understand what his attributes were meant to be then I could judge his ability but thus far i'm perplexed as to what he is meant to be adding.
Quote from: filham on October 07, 2018, 04:21:17 PM
Quote from: Statto on October 07, 2018, 02:05:16 PM
Poor and the whole back 5 behind him is mid-table championship standard. For all the money spent in that area we have gone backwards by losing Kalas, Fredericks and Targett. 21 goals conceded in 8 games... equates to 100 over the full 38-game season if we carry on. For comparison the infamous Derby team relegated with only 11 points conceded 89.
Anguissa and Seri are just not producing the goods in midfield, best we get back to Cairney, Johansen and MacDonald who were so good last season.
Johansen an MacD are not PL quality and will never get there.
Seri probably is and Anguisa just needs a rocket up his backside.
Quote from: milis on October 07, 2018, 02:10:37 PM
After what they presented today I think Anguissa, Christie, Ream and Bettinelli won't be among the starting 11 in the next few matches.
From where I was sat in block A. I thought Ream had a good game. Mopping everything up at the back and winning most in the air.... best of a bad bunch.
Quote from: Twig on October 07, 2018, 04:59:35 PM
Quote from: FulhamElite on October 07, 2018, 03:22:45 PM
Quote from: milis on October 07, 2018, 02:10:37 PM
After what they presented today I think Anguissa, Christie, Ream and Bettinelli won't be among the starting 11 in the next few matches.
Agree about the first two, but what did Ream and especially Betts do wrong?
Not a lot. Nothing in Ream's case, Betts maybe could have done better with their second but I need to see it again.
nothing in reams case apart from the fact he couldn't get near lacazate who scored two goals before ream got dragged off. .His lack of pace negates any ability that he has,and he will struggle all season because of this. Odoi and mlm had to cover for him on numerous occasions. He's just to slow, which isn't his fault but does cause us too many problems
I think he has the potential to be really good, but makes the same couple of mistakes over and over - particularly allowing someone to come from behind and nick the ball off him, rather than shielding it or buying a foul. He's been here for 6 weeks, where is the coaching?
Still miles better at this level than MacDonald, who is just chasing shadows (watch the way they played around him for the 4th and 5th goals).
No doubt he didn't have a great game. It did however fall apart when he came off. I do think although this was mainly down to the change in formation we did definitely miss his energy and he breaks up opposition play better than Mcdonald (who I think is not mobile enough at this level)
Quote from: Luka on October 07, 2018, 05:03:07 PM
Quote from: filham on October 07, 2018, 04:21:17 PM
Quote from: Statto on October 07, 2018, 02:05:16 PM
Poor and the whole back 5 behind him is mid-table championship standard. For all the money spent in that area we have gone backwards by losing Kalas, Fredericks and Targett. 21 goals conceded in 8 games... equates to 100 over the full 38-game season if we carry on. For comparison the infamous Derby team relegated with only 11 points conceded 89.
Anguissa and Seri are just not producing the goods in midfield, best we get back to Cairney, Johansen and MacDonald who were so good last season.
Johansen an MacD are not PL quality and will never get there.
Seri probably is and Anguisa just needs a rocket up his backside.
Agree that Seri has had a couple of very good games but it seems that Jocanovic always leaves the matches required for the Anguissa rocket in the dressing room.
He truly is out of his depth, but that said its not his fault we signed him or how much we signed him for.
Quote from: @jolslover on October 07, 2018, 06:39:57 PM
No doubt he didn't have a great game. It did however fall apart when he came off. I do think although this was mainly down to the change in formation we did definitely miss his energy and he breaks up opposition play better than Mcdonald (who I think is not mobile enough at this level)
For me it fell apart when Ream came off. I found it hard to tell whether the Zambo substitution made much difference.
He had a stinker, poor passing and not sure he won a 50/50 ball the entire game which for a defensive midfielder is unacceptable. Seems to lack any aggression when competing for the ball.
Quote from: Bill2 on October 08, 2018, 04:08:22 PM
He had a stinker, poor passing and not sure he won a 50/50 ball the entire game which for a defensive midfielder is unacceptable. Seems to lack any aggression when competing for the ball.
I do agree that he fails to show the aggression needed for a defensive midfielder. Seri wins far more second balls and 50/50's than Zambo does.
Quote from: David I on October 07, 2018, 05:04:11 PM
Quote from: milis on October 07, 2018, 02:10:37 PM
After what they presented today I think Anguissa, Christie, Ream and Bettinelli won't be among the starting 11 in the next few matches.
From where I was sat in block A. I thought Ream had a good game. Mopping everything up at the back and winning most in the air.... best of a bad bunch.
I think he was the worst of the back three but to be honest I thought they did fairly well before he got subbed. MLM made some excellent interceptions. The main issue was Christie not tracking back.
Quote from: itombomb on October 07, 2018, 06:20:52 PM
I think he has the potential to be really good, but makes the same couple of mistakes over and over - particularly allowing someone to come from behind and nick the ball off him, rather than shielding it or buying a foul. He's been here for 6 weeks, where is the coaching?
Still miles better at this level than MacDonald, who is just chasing shadows (watch the way they played around him for the 4th and 5th goals).
Agreed. We're going to have to get more from Anguissa. He's bought and paid for, and better than McDonald. I think he can improve but I think Slav needs to decide how he wants him to be used.
If Anguissa is ONLY a holding mid....a shield in front of the back line...play him that way. Don't have him advancing too far. If he wants to spray a long Michael Carrick like pass, have him do that...but let Seri and Cairney worry about supporting the attacks.
Anguissa has to think FASTER though. Attacking players in the premier league are going to press defenders that get the ball. They are hoping to make the defenders make a mistake with the ball.
He'll be fine.
It sometimes only takes one struggling player to place the balance of a defence out of kilts.
Hence the Christie issue with him being overrun and out of position far too often, dragged Odoi out of position to cover, pulling Ream across also, to replace Dennis, and when our midfield did not funnel back and tuck in quick enough, we then lost our shape time and time again, as we were overrun by a quicker and fitter team, and Arsenal were like a pack of dogs with a bone, they would not let go.
That is why they scored with ease, and why Marcus was exposed, he looked shell shocked as any Keeper would in his position.
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on October 08, 2018, 05:28:06 PM
Quote from: itombomb on October 07, 2018, 06:20:52 PM
I think he has the potential to be really good, but makes the same couple of mistakes over and over - particularly allowing someone to come from behind and nick the ball off him, rather than shielding it or buying a foul. He's been here for 6 weeks, where is the coaching?
Still miles better at this level than MacDonald, who is just chasing shadows (watch the way they played around him for the 4th and 5th goals).
Agreed. We're going to have to get more from Anguissa. He's bought and paid for, and better than McDonald. I think he can improve but I think Slav needs to decide how he wants him to be used.
If Anguissa is ONLY a holding mid....a shield in front of the back line...play him that way. Don't have him advancing too far. If he wants to spray a long Michael Carrick like pass, have him do that...but let Seri and Cairney worry about supporting the attacks.
Anguissa has to think FASTER though. Attacking players in the premier league are going to press defenders that get the ball. They are hoping to make the defenders make a mistake with the ball.
He'll be fine.
Good post.
Just goes to show we all see different things. Wasn't he the one that intercepted the pass for the equaliser?
I thought he did OK, needs more discipline in where he plays, but the back 3 was better. Sess is improving week by week and played well against Bellarin. The parts are there (ish) always thought it would be November/December before we started playing well as a team. Frank will be part of that.
Having Cairney and Seri along side him will show his true worth IMO.
He isn't good enough going forward to play in a 2 man midfield, but this is the same for McDonald.
I saw him play a fair bit at Marseille and thought he was a fantastic player and was over the moon when we signed him, but I feel like he just isn't being used the same way for us. As has been said, He should be a DM and only that - it seems we are using him as a bit of a box to box player at times, and the fact he has never scored a goal in his career shows he isn't that! In fact at times, when he is playing with an attacking intent he reminds me of Seko Fofana as he seems to have a slightly heavy/clumsy touch all the time
I think he will come good if just playing within his means as a pure defensive midfielder
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on October 09, 2018, 08:29:22 AM
Having Cairney and Seri along side him will show his true worth IMO.
He isn't good enough going forward to play in a 2 man midfield, but this is the same for McDonald.
I agree. I said in another post that in my view Cairney's return will help us get more out of both Anguissa and also Seri. I think they will have a bit more time to settle.
He will look good in a settled side where he is the holding midfielder, you can tell he is excellent at winning the ball back. Slav asked too much of Seri and Anguissa vs Arsenal, they were both playing box to box.
We were essentially playing 4-2-4 when Kamara came on, no wonder we got punished.
Quote from: HV71 on October 07, 2018, 04:55:35 PM
I thought at first that Anguissa 'switched off ' far too often but after today I have changed my mind in that I don't ever think his brain is actually ' switched on '. He has huge potential but until he actually engages his brain , concentrates on the job in hand, he may as well play in stocking feet for as much use as he is now. I rarely get on a players back but this guy is so frustrating- FFS man think !
Absolutely agree with this. It is like watching young kids scrap the way our midfield refuses to engage with the rest of the team. But, in fairness to Anguissa, he is not the only one with a brain that has gone AWOL.
Quote from: toshes mate on October 09, 2018, 10:59:49 AM
Quote from: HV71 on October 07, 2018, 04:55:35 PM
I thought at first that Anguissa 'switched off ' far too often but after today I have changed my mind in that I don't ever think his brain is actually ' switched on '. He has huge potential but until he actually engages his brain , concentrates on the job in hand, he may as well play in stocking feet for as much use as he is now. I rarely get on a players back but this guy is so frustrating- FFS man think !
Absolutely agree with this. It is like watching young kids scrap the way our midfield refuses to engage with the rest of the team. But, in fairness to Anguissa, he is not the only one with a brain that has gone AWOL.
Yes my feelings also, Anguissa can frustrate because he does have potential, a bit of extra homework/ training drills/ coaching would not go amiss for him.
I feel he will improve anyway as the season progresses, but under the right guidance and conditioning his development will accelerate as he has the attributes.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on October 09, 2018, 11:36:12 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on October 09, 2018, 10:59:49 AM
Quote from: HV71 on October 07, 2018, 04:55:35 PM
I thought at first that Anguissa 'switched off ' far too often but after today I have changed my mind in that I don't ever think his brain is actually ' switched on '. He has huge potential but until he actually engages his brain , concentrates on the job in hand, he may as well play in stocking feet for as much use as he is now. I rarely get on a players back but this guy is so frustrating- FFS man think !
Absolutely agree with this. It is like watching young kids scrap the way our midfield refuses to engage with the rest of the team. But, in fairness to Anguissa, he is not the only one with a brain that has gone AWOL.
Yes my feelings also, Anguissa can frustrate because he does have potential, a bit of extra homework/ training drills/ coaching would not go amiss for him.
I feel he will improve anyway as the season progresses, but under the right guidance and conditioning his development will accelerate as he has the attributes.
I really hope he can come good but it isn't easy getting someone to think. As you rightly point out he has lots of positive attributes - but you have to engage your brain to use them -? especially in the right order. He is powerful, strong with good ball skills but his positional play , anticipation ,awareness and decision making are way below standard. A brain and heart transplant with Mac and what a player we would have - sadly Christian Bernard has passed. This transformation may take some time - though we have seen Kamara make great strides since he arrived so maybe there is hope.
Quote from: HV71 on October 09, 2018, 11:46:36 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on October 09, 2018, 11:36:12 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on October 09, 2018, 10:59:49 AM
Quote from: HV71 on October 07, 2018, 04:55:35 PM
I thought at first that Anguissa 'switched off ' far too often but after today I have changed my mind in that I don't ever think his brain is actually ' switched on '. He has huge potential but until he actually engages his brain , concentrates on the job in hand, he may as well play in stocking feet for as much use as he is now. I rarely get on a players back but this guy is so frustrating- FFS man think !
Absolutely agree with this. It is like watching young kids scrap the way our midfield refuses to engage with the rest of the team. But, in fairness to Anguissa, he is not the only one with a brain that has gone AWOL.
Yes my feelings also, Anguissa can frustrate because he does have potential, a bit of extra homework/ training drills/ coaching would not go amiss for him.
I feel he will improve anyway as the season progresses, but under the right guidance and conditioning his development will accelerate as he has the attributes.
I really hope he can come good but it isn't easy getting someone to think. As you rightly point out he has lots of positive attributes - but you have to engage your brain to use them -? especially in the right order. He is powerful, strong with good ball skills but his positional play , anticipation ,awareness and decision making are way below standard. A brain and heart transplant with Mac and what a player we would have - sadly Christian Bernard has passed. This transformation may take some time - though we have seen Kamara make great strides since he arrived so maybe there is hope.
I actually think he needs to be aware he has more time than he thinks he has provided he applies himself to each step he is required to make. Beat and get the ball off of opponent; control it; be aware of who is doing what around you and then make your play. The best players have time to do what they want to do and that is because their mindset is adapted to creating the time they need. Anguissa, and Kamara, both suffer when they rush through the steps they must take to do what they think they must do rather than use their skill to 'fool' the opponent whilst going through their steps. It's practice and the confidence to carry it out under pressure.
Quote from: filham on October 07, 2018, 04:21:17 PM
Quote from: Statto on October 07, 2018, 02:05:16 PM
Poor and the whole back 5 behind him is mid-table championship standard. For all the money spent in that area we have gone backwards by losing Kalas, Fredericks and Targett. 21 goals conceded in 8 games... equates to 100 over the full 38-game season if we carry on. For comparison the infamous Derby team relegated with only 11 points conceded 89.
Anguissa and Seri are just not producing the goods in midfield, best we get back to Cairney, Johansen and MacDonald who were so good last season.
McDonald has no pace and his legs look like they have gone so I can't see him featuring much, Fredricks couldn't defend so no great loss, Targett would have been ideal but unavailable so couldn't get him and Kalas is not Prem quality
I would like to see a midfield of Cairney - Seri - Johanson - Anguissa (DM) or Vietto (AM) depending on who we play against with Schurle as a #10 behind Mitro
Quote from: Statto on October 07, 2018, 02:05:16 PM
Poor and the whole back 5 behind him is mid-table championship standard. For all the money spent in that area we have gone backwards by losing Kalas, Fredericks and Targett. 21 goals conceded in 8 games... equates to 100 over the full 38-game season if we carry on. For comparison the infamous Derby team relegated with only 11 points conceded 89.
Sorry, but just how many minutes have those 3 played in the PL this season?
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on October 10, 2018, 06:52:41 AM
Quote from: Statto on October 07, 2018, 02:05:16 PM
Poor and the whole back 5 behind him is mid-table championship standard. For all the money spent in that area we have gone backwards by losing Kalas, Fredericks and Targett. 21 goals conceded in 8 games... equates to 100 over the full 38-game season if we carry on. For comparison the infamous Derby team relegated with only 11 points conceded 89.
Sorry, but just how many minutes have those 3 played in the PL this season?
I am not saying Targett-Ream-Kalas-Fredericks is a decent PL defence.
It is a top 6 championship defence / a crap PL defence.
But it is better than MLM/Bryan-Ream-Odoi-Christie, which is a mid-table Championship defence that wouldn't even have got us promoted.
Not to mention we have the same GK behind them that many on here had concerns about even at Championship level.
My point isn't that our old back 5 was brilliant, just that the back 5 we are currently playing is no better, or IMO worse actually.
Quote from: Statto on October 10, 2018, 07:42:09 AM
My point isn't that our old back 5 was brilliant, just that the back 5 we are currently playing is no better, or IMO worse actually.
Making cogent responses like that, Statto, goes against the the grain of all those who claim the owners spent loads of money 'upgrading' and 'showing ambition' whilst the more savvy advised caution until we had a chance to see them all play - together - as a team. That may still happen. The big question now is 'in what league?'.
The Championship is a place where all kinds of problems can be and are forgiven if a team can fashion outcomes. After all what did Colin and Cardiff do last year? The players we have retained from last year are not necessarily the 'key' players from last term but, had we retained them all, and built upon them with perhaps just two or three key upgrades in class and quality we may have been fit for purpose on day one of this campaign - injuries etc allowing.
The outcome we have seen was wholly predictable and it's a great pity if people on here cannot actually understand that.
