Full backs at centre half, centre halves at full back. Drop our most expensive and energetic midfield player, make multiple changes again to the defence, I could go on.
Some of Slavs basic decisions have been strange in the past but this season he seems really confused. He clearly does not know our best 11, or even close to our best 11. His substitutions are often poor and he is not addressing what every football person in the country can see.
It's really hard to find any defence for his decisions today.
Talking of defence, i am sick and tiered of saying Slav needs to find our best defence and stick to it, of course injuries have not helped and most players have performed below their level however this is partially due to such poor organisation, which is caused by lack on consistency.
First half v Arsenal we looked to have found a system that could work, but after 2 weeks to work on that we change it all round again.
I don't know anyone that would have picked that 11, or even got close to it. Slav managed to pick an 11 that made Cardiff team look almost better on paper, certainly a better defence, then to drop Frank ! I can see the sense in playing 3 midfielders but instead of being at the expense of the forwards, it was at the expense of the defence.
Good teams are built from the back, we have enough good players but they are not being given a chance. If this carries on we will get relegated, how long Slav can play this merry go round selection game I am not sure. Slav has these players every day, he must have an idea of his best team after this long. For the first time, I am seriously questioning if we need to make a change of manager my main concern with that is that we are likely to employ some odd ball from overseas as a replacement. Frankly, this team looks like it needs a Big Sam type shake up. Sort the bloody defence out Slav and stop trying to be Man City. Accept we are in need of getting the basics right and concentrate on that as an absolute priority. If you can't sort that out in the next few games I suspect there is only one action the club can take.
Agree with the points you have raised, who could argue against them and to answer your question, I wouldn't have picked today's team if we were playing a Championship side!
Let me ask, would anyone have picked KMac and or Johanson ?
Would anyone have picked Chambers as full back ?
Would anyone have subbed Seri for Ayité after 50 odd minutes ?
Stu if you look at the "team for Cardiff" thread almost every poster picked a different team
Plenty would have picked at least one of Kmac or Johansen (KMac in my XI)
There was a whole thread on Chambers at RB (again that was my choice)
There is also a whole thread saying how woeful Seri was, not saying I agree, but I assume therefore lots of people wanted him subbed off
Of course it's the manager's job, not the fans', to know the best XI, but clearly the best XI isn't any more obvious to the users of this forum than it is to Jokanovic
I think a particular dilemma is who do you pick when the new players are good on paper but playing below par, whereas the old players are playing at their own par but that level is too poor for the PL ??
Statto good points, everybody on here in panic mode and cross examining each other, so I will ask you a question after watching the match, why would you have chosen Chambers at right back, he was completely out of his depth, no idea about marking a wide player and seriously lacking any pace. We all have our thoughts about Fredericks, but on what I have seen so far this season they are poles apart! Final point why is the "worst team" in the league performing better than us with so little investment having been made and a manager that is seemingly detested?
Dave, I don't think Joka, Tony Khan or anyone could have predicted Chambers being so poor in every position we put him in
I can only conclude he has PTSD - Post transfer Stearman disorder, AKA post transfer Sigurdsson disorder - the main symptom being a good defender becoming inexplicably weak, slow, timid and crap immediately after a transfer to Fulham
Quote from: Statto on October 20, 2018, 10:11:45 PM
Dave, I don't think Joka, Tony Khan or anyone could have predicted Chambers being so poor in every position we put him in
I can only conclude he has PTSD - Post transfer Stearman disorder, AKA post transfer Sigurdsson disorder - the main symptom being a good defender becoming inexplicably weak, slow, timid and crap immediately after a transfer to Fulham
Thanks Statto, that explains it all, what is he like in goal?
I didn't think it was that bad a shout. We needed battlers so Ream , KMac and Chippy Jo would have looked good to me . I agree with Statto - why wouldn't you try Chambers at RB ? The result was , like Arsenal, humiliating but I would not have called it from the selection. A more traditional Championship team should have been able to deal with Colin's charges / but sadly no. They need to sort this in the dressing room- a change of Coach isn't going to deliver on what is the real problem .
We will beat Bournemouth ( OMG - I said it )
Quote from: Statto on October 20, 2018, 09:59:51 PM
Stu if you look at the "team for Cardiff" thread almost every poster picked a different team
Plenty would have picked at least one of Kmac or Johansen (KMac in my XI)
There was a whole thread on Chambers at RB (again that was my choice)
There is also a whole thread saying how woeful Seri was, not saying I agree, but I assume therefore lots of people wanted him subbed off
Of course it's the manager's job, not the fans', to know the best XI, but clearly the best XI isn't any more obvious to the users of this forum than it is to Jokanovic
I think a particular dilemma is who do you pick when the new players are good on paper but playing below par, whereas the old players are playing at their own par but that level is too poor for the PL ??
OK... so we rarely agree on the exact players, the eleven will alway be a bit different, without Cairney I would have had KMac behind Seri and Frank. BUT.. no way would I have KMac and StefJo at the expense of Frank. I have been saying for many threads we must put more emphasis on defence and stop going with three forwards, we are just not strong enough at the back to do this.
Slav has been brilliant for us, and I seriously really hope he can be again this season, it's just his judgement on how to maintain Fulham as a premier club is for me, currently a long way off.
To think we can outscore Premier teams like we did in the championship is naive at best.
To think we can, every game make whole changes to the back four is crazy.
And to give up on a defensive system that worked first half v Arsenal because it does not suit your principals, or that's at least how it looks, is risking our clubs time in the big time.
So many questions v Slavs ability to deliver at this level and my current view is that he will not change and that he will continue with this cavalier approach until we are forced to get rid.
I really hope I am wrong, and hopefully I will be.
Quote from: FulhamStu on October 20, 2018, 06:28:08 PM
Full backs at centre half, centre halves at full back. Drop our most expensive and energetic midfield player, make multiple changes again to the defence, I could go on.
Some of Slavs basic decisions have been strange in the past but this season he seems really confused. He clearly does not know our best 11, or even close to our best 11. His substitutions are often poor and he is not addressing what every football person in the country can see.
It's really hard to find any defence for his decisions today.
Talking of defence, i am sick and tiered of saying Slav needs to find our best defence and stick to it, of course injuries have not helped and most players have performed below their level however this is partially due to such poor organisation, which is caused by lack on consistency.
First half v Arsenal we looked to have found a system that could work, but after 2 weeks to work on that we change it all round again.
I don't know anyone that would have picked that 11, or even got close to it. Slav managed to pick an 11 that made Cardiff team look almost better on paper, certainly a better defence, then to drop Frank ! I can see the sense in playing 3 midfielders but instead of being at the expense of the forwards, it was at the expense of the defence.
Good teams are built from the back, we have enough good players but they are not being given a chance. If this carries on we will get relegated, how long Slav can play this merry go round selection game I am not sure. Slav has these players every day, he must have an idea of his best team after this long. For the first time, I am seriously questioning if we need to make a change of manager my main concern with that is that we are likely to employ some odd ball from overseas as a replacement. Frankly, this team looks like it needs a Big Sam type shake up. Sort the bloody defence out Slav and stop trying to be Man City. Accept we are in need of getting the basics right and concentrate on that as an absolute priority. If you can't sort that out in the next few games I suspect there is only one action the club can take.
If you are calling Anguissa our most energetic midfield player then we have even more problems than I thought.
I think Felix Magath would have picked that team. I think he would have changed the defence about. I think he would also have consistently made subs that baffled and annoyed in equal measure. I cannot for the life of me understand why a coach like Joka keeps making the same mistakes over and over again. Not since Felix was in charge has the team looked so rudderless and so lacking in confidence or ideas. I also cannot understand how players can keep on making basic errors week in week out. Ream was just embarrassing but then so was Chambers and Alfie Woefulsome.
Yes Felix would have picked that team.
Frank is an athletic and gifted player, clearly some fans don't rate him but I do. Slav has played him and Seri together as a 2 in midfield and we have been overrun and made to look worse that they actually are, this is neither of their faults.
The major crime I think Slav is making is continuing to play 3 strikers, plus him substitutions are hurting us. V Arsenal he made a terrible sub at 2-1 and this score quickly became 4-1. Yesterday at 2-2 he took off our best midfield player and bought on a 4th striker and we went 3-2. He seems to think the best way to win is to fill the team with strikers who will then ourscore the opposition. This is schoolboy stuff.
Good teams have good defences and win games 1-0. This has always been the case. I know football has moved on a lot however in this league unless you are one of the elite teams with £60 million players on the bench you have to be organised defensively as a team as an absolute priority. Your opposition will mostly consist of world class players and if you don't respect that you will get nowhere. Yesterday we were beaten by a championship team because not only were we disorganised, we played our own version of a championship team in midfield and defence and we were out battled, totally unacceptable.
Sorry, one last thing.
This would be my best 11 if everyone is fit and I would stick to this formation with players in these positions unless injured, in which case I would bring a player from the squad in to replace them, not move everything round like a carousel.
—————————- RICO ———————
Mensah—Mawson—Ream—MLM—Sess
———-Frank——-Cairney——Seri——-
———————Shurlle—-Mitro—————
You can say it's harsh on Odoi, or Vietto which is true but both these players would be very much in the team if for example Mensah is injured, Odoi plays right back. Vietto comes on for Shurlle after an hour etc etc. I would ensure Cairney had a proper replacement even if this was the young American lad de la Torre, in other words, don't play square pegs in round holes and don't overload the team with strikers when you can't defend for toffees, yesterday I would have played KMac for Cairney to give more defensive stability and strength.
Think a to offensive front 3 is part of the problem, equally as much as the changing of defensive players continually.
Chambers is a signing in the mould of sendeross so would return him from where he came ,also could do worse than get Steve sess a go at right back,give when fit Bryan in at left back a decent run.Centre back wise would leave Odio there with MLM for a run of games so the whole back 4 gets a run as a unit because until you get an understanding as a defensive line you won't get and as said you build from the back.
How did MLM play yesterday?
Quote from: Andyb on October 21, 2018, 08:40:43 AM
How did MLM play yesterday?
Better than Chambers, probably a score of 3 out of 10 would reflect his performance.
Don't necessarily like the formation but Agree with Stu that Rico, Mawson, Anguissa and (given Chambers' nightmare) Fosu-Mensah should just be given a few successive starts now, whatever happens. On paper they are just so much better than Betts, Odoi, Mcdonald and Christie, who look well out of their depths.
If Cairney is out IMO Seri should be taking that role. He should be made to watch compilation videos of all Cairney's touches throughout last season and told to take that role. Theres nothing Cairney does that Seri can't do at least as well. Then concentrate on plugging the other midfield gap which is a simpler role.
Quote from: davew on October 21, 2018, 08:42:44 AM
Quote from: Andyb on October 21, 2018, 08:40:43 AM
How did MLM play yesterday?
Better than Chambers, probably a score of 3 out of 10 would reflect his performance.
MLM played left back but best position LCB.
I
Quote from: Statto on October 21, 2018, 08:46:21 AM
Don't necessarily like the formation but Agree with Stu that Rico, Mawson, Anguissa and (given Chambers' nightmare) Fosu-Mensah should just be given a few successive starts now, whatever happens. On paper they are just so much better than Betts, Odoi, Mcdonald and Christie, who look well out of their depths.
If Cairney is out IMO Seri should be taking that role. He should be made to watch compilation videos of all Cairney's touches throughout last season and told to take that role. Theres nothing Cairney does that Seri can't do at least as well. Then concentrate on plugging the other midfield gap which is a simpler role.
That works for me as well, Seri can play the Cairney roll but behind 2 strikers not 3. I guess I would then play Frank and KMac as a double pivot behind Seri in front of the back 5. Of course the 2 wing backs can attack, but they must be made to work back and not go together always keeping a back 4.
I just can't see Slav doing this. He will stick to his attack at all costs. He calls it being brave, I call it naive.
Quote from: HV71 on October 20, 2018, 11:02:25 PM
We will beat Bournemouth ( OMG - I said it )
Someone call a doctor!
Would like to see MLM and Mawson as our cb for a few games, ream just too slow for this league
Well........I quite liked the look of the team on paper before the game Chambers has played RB for Arsenal Ream our favourite - in the midfield 2 buddies from last year - everyone was calling for SJ to get game time (not me) and Zambo has looked poor recently. Sess up front Yes! Betts still in goal.
Happy days should get a win a championship Cardiff
However it didn't work that way.
This is the first time iv3 thought it and I really love SJ but I think it's time unfortunately for a change at the top and get rid of Parker for sure
The team is shot no matter who plays so a change of direction is needed
Quote from: FulhamStu on October 20, 2018, 08:20:37 PM
Let me ask, would anyone have picked KMac and or Johanson ?
Would anyone have picked Chambers as full back ?
Would anyone have subbed Seri for Ayité after 50 odd minutes ?
I would have done none of the above, it was suicidal.
Rico
Fosu-Mensah Odoi Mawson Le Marchand Sessegnon
Cairney Anguissa Seri
Schurrle Mitrovic
Bettinelli, Ream and Johansen can't be near the starting XI atm.
The worse thing we can do is a knee jerk. As McDonald said after match the performance of the players was simply not good enough, and that is the bottom line of this season's failures. The thirteen players used fell short of any expectation they might have of themselves let alone of their employers and supporters. These are highly paid players and, as McDonald said, they lacked the concentration and application essential to carry out a match plan in both halves of this latest installment. He didn't hide behind 'unfathomable' coaching decisions or 'unrealistic' (or whatever words we may substitute for either); he accepts responsibility. Now, as a senior player, he must help the drive the change the whole squads attitude to overcome this impasse of poor decision making and inadequate fight. We have been here before, under Jokanovic, and everybody knows what needs to be done. It isn't a matter of formations, tactics, or whatever else - it is about attitude and having the pride to want to demonstrate that you really do care about what happens to FFC. Many of the players in yesterday's game have performed before and they can perform again. Rockets up asses or whatever it takes but it is the players who must take the blame.
Quote from: Lighthouse on October 20, 2018, 11:53:56 PM
I think Felix Magath would have picked that team. I think he would have changed the defence about. I think he would also have consistently made subs that baffled and annoyed in equal measure. I cannot for the life of me understand why a coach like Joka keeps making the same mistakes over and over again. Not since Felix was in charge has the team looked so rudderless and so lacking in confidence or ideas. I also cannot understand how players can keep on making basic errors week in week out. Ream was just embarrassing but then so was Chambers and Alfie Woefulsome.
Yes Felix would have picked that team.
In all fairness Lighthouse Felix would have played a different goalkeeper, probably Mitro.
