1st half certainly was a good step in the right direction. The second was abject as before.
Is this enough to keep him in a job in the international break or do we change now?
Personally I'm split but if we are to change this is a good time to do it.
For me after that 1st half I would stick for now. Anything other than a win against Southampton and I would change after that.
Not for me. Too little too late. And wtf were the subs about. Seri for tom first, why what is Seri gonna bring. And then he followed it up with vietto for schurrle. Yes schurrle was poor again, and shouldn't be on the pitch, but why bring vietto on to play wide. Kebano was on the bench and would have been much better suited for our tactics. If anything vietto should have came on for mitro who once again added nothing in the second half.
Quote from: Rambler on November 11, 2018, 02:03:23 PM
1st half certainly was a good step in the right direction. The second was abject as before.
Is this enough to keep him in a job in the international break or do we change now?
Personally I'm split but if we are to change this is a good time to do it.
For me after that 1st half I would stick for now. Anything other than a win against Southampton and I would change after that.
I'd say that the time has come. Slav might feel that he would be hard done by if he was sacked after defeat at Liverpool where most teams would struggle, but a quick glance at the 7 defeats in a row, and the fact that "clear water" has opened between us and the rest of the league surely justifies that his input into team selection and motivation should end now.
What today proved is we have decent players. If played in the right way and the right positions than we have half a chance. But I am not convinced we will not see a complete change with Sess position changed again, a complete change at the back. It was better but I am not sure if it proved more than the players are not the real problem.
I agree, let a new man come in as we cannot afford to lose the next game against Southampton.
Yes it was better today against a team we were not expecting anything from but it's not enough and results didn't go with us this weekend which unfortunately intensifies the problem
The reality is Liverpool did not get out of third gear.
We surrendered.
Our second half was poor, a training match for them.
The Liverpool fans hardly murmured.
If Pardew is the answer, please no..
Great first half. Keep Joka and we will beat Saints.
A baby step in the right direction. Much better effort overall than we've seen in recent weeks. Good first half, BUT AGAIN, a significant regression in the second half. The pattern since season started. Needs to be fixed.
A couple breaks in first half could have produced a positive result. Sess had good chance, and Mitro offsides and goal was awfully close.
Though better effort against a top club, it may now be time to make a change and bring in a new coach. This losing streak needs to be halted. Have two week break and then home match against a team which FFC should score points. Give the new coach time to work with club and get familiar with personnel and maybe hit ground running with a win v Southampton.
Mark Schwartzer pretty adamant on BT TV sport that SJ time is up
Quote from: Baszab on November 11, 2018, 02:35:47 PM
Mark Schwartzer pretty adamant on BT TV sport that SJ time is up
So?
So....I posted on a fans' forum that an experienced former player thinks that SJ time is up and expressed that view on TV analysis
So ?
At last we have seen a change of tactics from Jocanovic. today's defensive approach was the right one. May be he is admitting that the short ball pretty pretty approach is not going to put points on the board.
Quote from: filham on November 11, 2018, 03:03:32 PM
At last we have seen a change of tactics from Jocanovic. today's defensive approach was the right one. May be he is admitting that the short ball pretty pretty approach is not going to put points on the board.
yep I'll agree with that. But he has to change the personnel to fot the new system
Schurrle is no wide boy, and should be benched imo. Sess was far more effective than he was
Slav in!!!
Not a lot of player mistakes, some missed chances...team looked solid defensively for 55 minutes...
baby step forward.
Keep same starting 11 for next two games.
I'll say now...if the Whites get relegated Slav is the manager I want them to have in the championship.
If they stay up I don't see the point in getting another manager.
Today's game is an argument against getting rid of Slav. No other manager in football(that isn't already employed), with this team, would have gotten a better result. Not even Zidane.
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on November 11, 2018, 03:38:06 PM
Today's game is an argument against getting rid of Slav. No other manager in football, with this team, would have gotten a better result.
Could not disagree more. Our coach decides to play Sess forward for a rare occasion when we all know that our shape and play are better with Sess forward. Our coach plays with Chambers as DM and says afterwards that Chambers was playing out of position but did well so may use that again. Almost as if our Coach never sees the squad all week. We play with yet another different defence. Who knows if it will change yet again. But many have said Christie should not have been dropped despite his poor crossing and was a better player than Fosu Mensah. Mawson was used and showed he was better centre half than Ream. Again it took a long time coming. Then we have our traditional second half sleepy byes. So it proved only our players are not as bad as some think. But it also proves that our Coach is as confused as he has been from day one. I am not convinced any other manager couldn't have done a better job. We shall see against Southampton.
I only caught the last two minutes properly and Joka looked really drawn out as the game entered injury time and then on the whistle hand shakes all round and straight down the tunnel on his own. He must be crucifying himself about the hows, whys and now ultimately the when.
Quote from: Robbie on November 11, 2018, 02:16:38 PM
The reality is Liverpool did not get out of third gear.
We surrendered.
Our second half was poor, a training match for them.
The Liverpool fans hardly murmured.
+1
A lot of positives today, I thought we played well in the first half and unlucky to be losing, Mitro's goal was not offside and I would like to see a replay of their goalkeeper kicking out while our players were complaining about the offside decision. I too am positive that we won't finish bottom, think we might finish 18th or 19th if we can start to score a few goals or a goal would be a start. Wouldn't mind seeing the same 11 picked for the Soton game, if we win that match then maybe onwards and upwards, if we lose well I will revert back to thinking we will finish bottom!
Quote from: ScalleysDad on November 11, 2018, 04:11:48 PM
I only caught the last two minutes properly and Joka looked really drawn out as the game entered injury time and then on the whistle hand shakes all round and straight down the tunnel on his own. He must be crucifying himself about the hows, whys and now ultimately the when.
According to the Telegraph yesterday, Slav was reported as saying; "After the Huddersfield game, I told them [the team] 'Listen, I am a fantastic coach'".....then; "I did a fantastic job with my staff because everything we expected, we found it [in the Huddersfield game]" ...suggesting the players are not following instructions.
He then accused his players of "playing like kids".
I think that gives us an insight into the atmosphere in the dressing room.........
Best performance in a long time. Huge step forward. If Sess had buried his chance and Mitro hadn't been marginally offside we could have been up 0-2 at half time. This is actually the first time this season I've started to believe we won't be relegated. Strange thing to say after a defeat but we showed a lot of potential today. And more importantly we showed more guts than the rest of the season combined. Bring on Southampton, I can't wait!!!! 049:gif
Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on November 11, 2018, 05:31:56 PM
Best performance in a long time. Huge step forward. If Sess had buried his chance and Mitro hadn't been marginally offside we could have been up 0-2 at half time. This is actually the first time this season I've started to believe we won't be relegated. Strange thing to say after a defeat but we showed a lot of potential today. And more importantly we showed more guts than the rest of the season combined. Bring on Southampton, I can't wait!!!! 049:gif
Look at the replay again re Mitro's goal, he was not offside!!!! Apart from that I almost agree with the rest of your posting.
Well some refs would have given him offside. Mitro scored with the bit of his body that was offside so it was close at best. The first Liverpool goal should not have stood needless to say as the ball was moving when the keeper took it. But we are hanging on to threads here. We should have defended better that first goal whoever we were playing.
Quote from: Lighthouse on November 11, 2018, 02:13:38 PM
What today proved is we have decent players. If played in the right way and the right positions than we have half a chance. But I am not convinced we will not see a complete change with Sess position changed again, a complete change at the back. It was better but I am not sure if it proved more than the players are not the real problem.
Something you often moan about, and I will admit it is a reasonable moan, is posters on here giving the manager credit when we do well but the players the blame when we do poorly. But surely now you are doing the opposite, which is just as bad. We've been playing poorly of late and you seem to me to have generally blamed the manager, not the players. But now we play (half) a decent game, you say this "proves we have decent players" and credit them, not the manager.
Sorry but you can't moan about Jokanovic after the poor performances, then use a good performance as another stick to beat him with.
If we finish 18th or 19th DaveW, we'll still be relegated. Is that your prediction?
Quote from: New Kid on the Block on November 12, 2018, 07:40:36 AM
If we finish 18th or 19th DaveW, we'll still be relegated. Is that your prediction?
Unfortunately yes!
There was some cohesion to the team in this performance with fewer errors by individuals. The officials were poor, and there was a Liverpool attack around the fifteen minute mark where two players were clearly offside and yet no flag, and yet flags all day long at the other end. And then of course, there is the moving ball free kick, and Mane being called as level with the last defender for the first goal while Mitro had a hair just misplaced.
There was a moment of zero communication from Cairney who drifted away from Shaqiri in his own box and left Christie exposed for the second goal. But, overall, there were players worthy of the shirts in this game. Chambers and Mawson showed they can play at this level and the latter, if he stays healthy, will get better. Chambers enabled Anguissa to look more comfortable. There were partnerships on the field, and apart from the incident mentioned above, communication. The will was there too, but not the presence of decent officials.
Considering it was Anfield and Liverpool it was much, much better. It was a turning point that now depends on consolidation of good work over the next couple of weeks.
Quote from: Statto on November 11, 2018, 08:36:14 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on November 11, 2018, 02:13:38 PM
What today proved is we have decent players. If played in the right way and the right positions than we have half a chance. But I am not convinced we will not see a complete change with Sess position changed again, a complete change at the back. It was better but I am not sure if it proved more than the players are not the real problem.
Something you often moan about, and I will admit it is a reasonable moan, is posters on here giving the manager credit when we do well but the players the blame when we do poorly. But surely now you are doing the opposite, which is just as bad. We've been playing poorly of late and you seem to me to have generally blamed the manager, not the players. But now we play (half) a decent game, you say this "proves we have decent players" and credit them, not the manager.
Sorry but you can't moan about Jokanovic after the poor performances, then use a good performance as another stick to beat him with.
But it wasn't a good performance. It was better because we had players like Sess playing further up. We suddenly found that Chambers has a role as a DM. The fact we had one good half is repeating much of our season. I think yours and other defence of the coach has been that we have awful recruiting that bring in poor players. When we do well it is the coach somehow finding a way to use these players after months of trying things. My point is we have the players and the coach takes forever to realise that Sess should play forward and that Chambers is a better DM then a defender. A coach who works with players every day is very slow to work things out. My views have not changed. I don't need to beat the coach with a stick. I think what I see as poor tactics and at Liverpool not being beaten by 5 goals and having one decent half is considered a success and a triumph by the coach. My opinion clearly differs but I am afraid is consistent.
Quote from: Rambler on November 11, 2018, 02:03:23 PM
1st half certainly was a good step in the right direction. The second was abject as before.
Is this enough to keep him in a job in the international break or do we change now?
Personally I'm split but if we are to change this is a good time to do it.
For me after that 1st half I would stick for now. Anything other than a win against Southampton and I would change after that.
I really do not agree that the 2nd half was abject. we were stiched up by the ref and liverpool are a brilliant team. it was easy for them once ahead to smother us. it took 25 minutes to get a head of steam up again in the 2nd half and looked bright in the last 15 minutes buit all too late. I was very encouraged because we didn't give up, kept our shape and really tried for 90 minutes
But wasn't the second half likely to have been a lot different if it started with us 1-0 up, as it should have done?
Going into the lead must have affected their approach and confidence, and their supporters, as did going behind, when we should have been ahead, affect us.
It it the coach or the players? well, both, I would say. Hopefully, there were signs yesterday, that indicated an improvement in team play and cohesion, and thus results, which was partly to do with the coach's selection, and partly to do with players becoming more confident in playing together.
We know of the manager's track record with Fulham - of creating a successful team of players who weren't maybe the very best players in the division, and the brilliant success achieved, though it took a bit of time to get there, but when we got going.....
The Prem has presented a new challenge, with a number of new players, necessarily- and maybe it's taken until now to things to start to come together. Two decent away performances against two of the very top teams in the land - City and L'pool, though still defeats, and early days yet.
But let's hope for the best. At least we feel there are reasons to be positive about staying up , and to keep getting behind the team.
Quote from: Lighthouse on November 12, 2018, 10:19:58 AM
Quote from: Statto on November 11, 2018, 08:36:14 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on November 11, 2018, 02:13:38 PM
What today proved is we have decent players. If played in the right way and the right positions than we have half a chance. But I am not convinced we will not see a complete change with Sess position changed again, a complete change at the back. It was better but I am not sure if it proved more than the players are not the real problem.
Something you often moan about, and I will admit it is a reasonable moan, is posters on here giving the manager credit when we do well but the players the blame when we do poorly. But surely now you are doing the opposite, which is just as bad. We've been playing poorly of late and you seem to me to have generally blamed the manager, not the players. But now we play (half) a decent game, you say this "proves we have decent players" and credit them, not the manager.
Sorry but you can't moan about Jokanovic after the poor performances, then use a good performance as another stick to beat him with.
But it wasn't a good performance. It was better because we had players like Sess playing further up. We suddenly found that Chambers has a role as a DM. The fact we had one good half is repeating much of our season. I think yours and other defence of the coach has been that we have awful recruiting that bring in poor players. When we do well it is the coach somehow finding a way to use these players after months of trying things. My point is we have the players and the coach takes forever to realise that Sess should play forward and that Chambers is a better DM then a defender. A coach who works with players every day is very slow to work things out. My views have not changed. I don't need to beat the coach with a stick. I think what I see as poor tactics and at Liverpool not being beaten by 5 goals and having one decent half is considered a success and a triumph by the coach. My opinion clearly differs but I am afraid is consistent.
Agreed, just because it was better doesn't mean it was a good performance.
Goals change games, Liverpool had the good fortune to start the second half 1 0 up. If Fulham could have started the second half 1 0 up, it could have been a different game, and a different result.
Goals change games, nevertheless, there were Fulham players out there who played with pride and commitment, and that in itself is a foundation to build on.
I hope Jok has made a note of those players who did apply themselves correctly and played within the framework of the team, and forget about any personal feelings on one or two players which may have clouded his judgement when making decisions about the starting lineup.
Because one of his shortcomings I feel has been tunnel vision, not always looking at the wider picture.
A little obsessed with it's his way or the highway.
But yesterday's lineup showed he has realised that you can be flexible as opposed to being too rigid. and currently at the moment I feel injuries permitting he cannot afford to select Vieto and Schurrie and Seri at the same time, too many passengers when all three or even two are on the pitch at the KO.
Certainly not when we are fighting for our lives.
Once we start picking up clean sheets, we will start picking up points.
Clearly going by yesterday's line up and improved commitment by the team, he is reading my emails I send him giving my advice, better late than never, but he has to remember the players that will stand up and be counted, because they are the players that will save our season, not the passengers.
Quote from: Neutral Zone Ultra on November 12, 2018, 10:54:35 AM
Quote from: Lighthouse on November 12, 2018, 10:19:58 AM
Quote from: Statto on November 11, 2018, 08:36:14 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on November 11, 2018, 02:13:38 PM
What today proved is we have decent players. If played in the right way and the right positions than we have half a chance. But I am not convinced we will not see a complete change with Sess position changed again, a complete change at the back. It was better but I am not sure if it proved more than the players are not the real problem.
Something you often moan about, and I will admit it is a reasonable moan, is posters on here giving the manager credit when we do well but the players the blame when we do poorly. But surely now you are doing the opposite, which is just as bad. We've been playing poorly of late and you seem to me to have generally blamed the manager, not the players. But now we play (half) a decent game, you say this "proves we have decent players" and credit them, not the manager.
Sorry but you can't moan about Jokanovic after the poor performances, then use a good performance as another stick to beat him with.
But it wasn't a good performance. It was better because we had players like Sess playing further up. We suddenly found that Chambers has a role as a DM. The fact we had one good half is repeating much of our season. I think yours and other defence of the coach has been that we have awful recruiting that bring in poor players. When we do well it is the coach somehow finding a way to use these players after months of trying things. My point is we have the players and the coach takes forever to realise that Sess should play forward and that Chambers is a better DM then a defender. A coach who works with players every day is very slow to work things out. My views have not changed. I don't need to beat the coach with a stick. I think what I see as poor tactics and at Liverpool not being beaten by 5 goals and having one decent half is considered a success and a triumph by the coach. My opinion clearly differs but I am afraid is consistent.
Agreed, just because it was better doesn't mean it was a good performance.
Hmmm, not really sure what your point is. Go back over my post and swap every use of the word "good" for the word "better" if you want. Doesn't change the point i am making at all.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on November 12, 2018, 11:07:11 AM
Goals change games, Liverpool had the good fortune to start the second half 1 0 up. If Fulham could have started the second half 1 0 up, it could have been a different game, and a different result.
Goals change games, nevertheless, there were Fulham players out there who played with pride and commitment, and that in itself is a foundation to build on.
I hope Jok has made a note of those players who did apply themselves correctly and played within the framework of the team, and forget about any personal feelings on one or two players which may have clouded his judgement when making decisions about the starting lineup.
Because one of his shortcomings I feel has been tunnel vision, not always looking at the wider picture.
A little obsessed with it's his way or the highway.
But yesterday's lineup showed he has realised that you can be flexible as opposed to being too rigid. and currently at the moment I feel injuries permitting he cannot afford to select Vieto and Schurrie and Seri at the same time, too many passengers when all three or even two are on the pitch at the KO.
Certainly not when we are fighting for our lives.
Once we start picking up clean sheets, we will start picking up points.
Clearly going by yesterday's line up and improved commitment by the team, he is reading my emails I send him giving my advice, better late than never, but he has to remember the players that will stand up and be counted, because they are the players that will save our season, not the passengers.
Last bit is key, we need to start keeping clean sheets, we do that the worst we come away with is a point, snatch a goal and we have 3.
He has to keep the same team against Southampton, treat them with the respect we gave Liverpool, the formwation we played allowed a lot of change fmoving from defence to attack and we need to continue this in a few weeks time.
Quote from: Neutral Zone Ultra on November 12, 2018, 10:54:35 AM
Just because it was better doesn't mean it was a good performance.
Compared to Huddesrfield and in the context of 'loud noises of disapproval' on here, it was good to see we can perform. Whether or not people see it as a 'good' perfromance is a part of whatever agenda the person has right now. My agenda is that I want to see FFC turn a corner and in terms of achieving that yesterday's game was 'good' in more aspects than it was 'bad'. Only the result was 'bad' and the outcome could have been so very different had marginal decisions gone with us and not against us, a product of having decent officials who actually show no bias at all. Had we been playing like that all season then I would have believed we had genuinely arrived in the PL. Now we have to make up for the fact we have taken so long to become a 'team' for the many numerous reasons that have been discussed on here. I also believe we need to come to terms with the fact some of the players purchased were overpriced 'luxuries' that can be ill afforded in a first season return to the PL, at least when they are thrown on the field together.
If the players can repeat this improvement against Southampton there is no reason we cannot win, and when we start winning, confidence will return to the core squad. That for me is why it was a good performance.
The first half was a better performance, probably better than most the games we've played this season. Moments change matches and the players were obviously affected by going 1-0 down.
That goal should have been the opportunity to push on and right a wrong. The second half was poor, there's no two ways about that. There were some instances of Liverpool controlling the game but we played into their hands with misplaced passes and no direct intent going forward. There was always the feeling that there was no threat going forward in the second half and we played like it was 0-0. We don't seem to react to goals, react to moments in a positive way or without clear intent.
If there were 90 minutes of what I saw in the first half then I'd be delighted, if I saw 90 minutes of what happened in the 2nd half then I'd be horrified. Liverpool didn't play like worldbeaters, almost as if they done the bare minimum to get the job done .
A clean sheet has to be important against Southampton, it needs to be used as a base going forward. We can't keep chasing games as we don't react well to going behind.
If we win at Southampton it needs to be 90 minutes effort, potency in attack, and clever players managing and controlling the match. That's what we need and that's what's been missing
Quote from: Statto on November 12, 2018, 11:39:24 AM
Quote from: Neutral Zone Ultra on November 12, 2018, 10:54:35 AM
Quote from: Lighthouse on November 12, 2018, 10:19:58 AM
Quote from: Statto on November 11, 2018, 08:36:14 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on November 11, 2018, 02:13:38 PM
What today proved is we have decent players. If played in the right way and the right positions than we have half a chance. But I am not convinced we will not see a complete change with Sess position changed again, a complete change at the back. It was better but I am not sure if it proved more than the players are not the real problem.
Something you often moan about, and I will admit it is a reasonable moan, is posters on here giving the manager credit when we do well but the players the blame when we do poorly. But surely now you are doing the opposite, which is just as bad. We've been playing poorly of late and you seem to me to have generally blamed the manager, not the players. But now we play (half) a decent game, you say this "proves we have decent players" and credit them, not the manager.
Sorry but you can't moan about Jokanovic after the poor performances, then use a good performance as another stick to beat him with.
But it wasn't a good performance. It was better because we had players like Sess playing further up. We suddenly found that Chambers has a role as a DM. The fact we had one good half is repeating much of our season. I think yours and other defence of the coach has been that we have awful recruiting that bring in poor players. When we do well it is the coach somehow finding a way to use these players after months of trying things. My point is we have the players and the coach takes forever to realise that Sess should play forward and that Chambers is a better DM then a defender. A coach who works with players every day is very slow to work things out. My views have not changed. I don't need to beat the coach with a stick. I think what I see as poor tactics and at Liverpool not being beaten by 5 goals and having one decent half is considered a success and a triumph by the coach. My opinion clearly differs but I am afraid is consistent.
Agreed, just because it was better doesn't mean it was a good performance.
Hmmm, not really sure what your point is. Go back over my post and swap every use of the word "good" for the word "better" if you want. Doesn't change the point i am making at all.
But I just don't agree with it. My point is the same one I have consistently made. I appreciate that you and many others love our coach and will defend him over and above everything else. If we win and put in a good performance in our next match then all of this will not matter. But the point is you and others think the coach is wonderful and the players are poor. I tend to think otherwise. So when we do ok my question is so have all the players become better? Your answer is no but the tactics and the coach have made them seem that way. We simply don't agree.
Quote from: Lighthouse on November 12, 2018, 05:30:57 PM
Quote from: Statto on November 12, 2018, 11:39:24 AM
Quote from: Neutral Zone Ultra on November 12, 2018, 10:54:35 AM
Quote from: Lighthouse on November 12, 2018, 10:19:58 AM
Quote from: Statto on November 11, 2018, 08:36:14 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on November 11, 2018, 02:13:38 PM
What today proved is we have decent players. If played in the right way and the right positions than we have half a chance. But I am not convinced we will not see a complete change with Sess position changed again, a complete change at the back. It was better but I am not sure if it proved more than the players are not the real problem.
Something you often moan about, and I will admit it is a reasonable moan, is posters on here giving the manager credit when we do well but the players the blame when we do poorly. But surely now you are doing the opposite, which is just as bad. We've been playing poorly of late and you seem to me to have generally blamed the manager, not the players. But now we play (half) a decent game, you say this "proves we have decent players" and credit them, not the manager.
Sorry but you can't moan about Jokanovic after the poor performances, then use a good performance as another stick to beat him with.
But it wasn't a good performance. It was better because we had players like Sess playing further up. We suddenly found that Chambers has a role as a DM. The fact we had one good half is repeating much of our season. I think yours and other defence of the coach has been that we have awful recruiting that bring in poor players. When we do well it is the coach somehow finding a way to use these players after months of trying things. My point is we have the players and the coach takes forever to realise that Sess should play forward and that Chambers is a better DM then a defender. A coach who works with players every day is very slow to work things out. My views have not changed. I don't need to beat the coach with a stick. I think what I see as poor tactics and at Liverpool not being beaten by 5 goals and having one decent half is considered a success and a triumph by the coach. My opinion clearly differs but I am afraid is consistent.
Agreed, just because it was better doesn't mean it was a good performance.
Hmmm, not really sure what your point is. Go back over my post and swap every use of the word "good" for the word "better" if you want. Doesn't change the point i am making at all.
But I just don't agree with it. My point is the same one I have consistently made. I appreciate that you and many others love our coach and will defend him over and above everything else. If we win and put in a good performance in our next match then all of this will not matter. But the point is you and others think the coach is wonderful and the players are poor. I tend to think otherwise. So when we do ok my question is so have all the players become better? Your answer is no but the tactics and the coach have made them seem that way. We simply don't agree.
My last comment was directed at neutral zone ultra. I'm aware of your view that no matter how well Fulham do, this manager should never get any credit. That has been your view consistently, as you say, since 2015. I fully accept we disagree and that is your prerogative.
Quote from: Statto on November 12, 2018, 06:39:38 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on November 12, 2018, 05:30:57 PM
Quote from: Statto on November 12, 2018, 11:39:24 AM
Quote from: Neutral Zone Ultra on November 12, 2018, 10:54:35 AM
Quote from: Lighthouse on November 12, 2018, 10:19:58 AM
Quote from: Statto on November 11, 2018, 08:36:14 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on November 11, 2018, 02:13:38 PM
What today proved is we have decent players. If played in the right way and the right positions than we have half a chance. But I am not convinced we will not see a complete change with Sess position changed again, a complete change at the back. It was better but I am not sure if it proved more than the players are not the real problem.
Something you often moan about, and I will admit it is a reasonable moan, is posters on here giving the manager credit when we do well but the players the blame when we do poorly. But surely now you are doing the opposite, which is just as bad. We've been playing poorly of late and you seem to me to have generally blamed the manager, not the players. But now we play (half) a decent game, you say this "proves we have decent players" and credit them, not the manager.
Sorry but you can't moan about Jokanovic after the poor performances, then use a good performance as another stick to beat him with.
But it wasn't a good performance. It was better because we had players like Sess playing further up. We suddenly found that Chambers has a role as a DM. The fact we had one good half is repeating much of our season. I think yours and other defence of the coach has been that we have awful recruiting that bring in poor players. When we do well it is the coach somehow finding a way to use these players after months of trying things. My point is we have the players and the coach takes forever to realise that Sess should play forward and that Chambers is a better DM then a defender. A coach who works with players every day is very slow to work things out. My views have not changed. I don't need to beat the coach with a stick. I think what I see as poor tactics and at Liverpool not being beaten by 5 goals and having one decent half is considered a success and a triumph by the coach. My opinion clearly differs but I am afraid is consistent.
Agreed, just because it was better doesn't mean it was a good performance.
Hmmm, not really sure what your point is. Go back over my post and swap every use of the word "good" for the word "better" if you want. Doesn't change the point i am making at all.
But I just don't agree with it. My point is the same one I have consistently made. I appreciate that you and many others love our coach and will defend him over and above everything else. If we win and put in a good performance in our next match then all of this will not matter. But the point is you and others think the coach is wonderful and the players are poor. I tend to think otherwise. So when we do ok my question is so have all the players become better? Your answer is no but the tactics and the coach have made them seem that way. We simply don't agree.
My last comment was directed at neutral zone ultra. I'm aware of your view that no matter how well Fulham do, this manager should never get any credit. That has been your view consistently, as you say, since 2015. I fully accept we disagree and that is your prerogative.
What a shame you were doing so well but then you have to spoil it with a lie. This time last season when were doing badly I defended our coach and could see that with a few improvements we were on the right track. I gave him credit. This season I don't see that. But we can agree without distorting the others opinion that we want Fulham to succeed and hope they do whoever the coach is.
Quote from: fulhamben on November 11, 2018, 02:09:16 PM
Not for me. Too little too late. And wtf were the subs about. Seri for tom first, why what is Seri gonna bring. And then he followed it up with vietto for schurrle. Yes schurrle was poor again, and shouldn't be on the pitch, but why bring vietto on to play wide. Kebano was on the bench and would have been much better suited for our tactics. If anything vietto should have came on for mitro who once again added nothing in the second half.
This is where supporters that have not seen any of the game get confused - like me.
you say that Schurrie was poor again, yet on numerous threads not necessarily on this site, people saying he had a very good game, even as far as saying best he has played.
So how can supporters be so far apart in their assessment of a player.
Not enough no, but I think most of us agree a very useful step in the right direction. The next game is obviously critical and one where we need some sort of result, ideally a win but I'd also take a 0 - 0. I think we should all stop debating SJ's future until after the match and in the meantime just get right behind him, the team and one another. We need to be united in our support. If it goes wrong, then is the time to debate his future.
