We need seasoned premiership players to dig us out of this hole. An experienced centre back a must. Cahill? Also a right back. Danny Simpson from Leicester maybe? Also someone needs to replace Seri. Loftus Cheek or Drinkwater? None of these getting starts.Also proper cover for Mitro.
I agree, these are the kind of players we have been missing, and will put some meat on the bones.
Will the chairman be prepared to risk any more money and would the likes of Loftus Cheek and Cahill fancy a relegation battle.
Have we room for more loan deals.
Simpson and Cahill wouldn't cost that much. Drinkwater not featuring at Chelsea and I'm sure wouldn't be mega bucks. Loftus Cheek they wouldn't sell so maybe we would need to terminate an existing loan, although I confess to not being up on the maximum loan numbers.
Would rather concentrate on integrating the players we've got before giving up and thinking about replacements.
Rico has only just started looking good. Mawson and Chambers looked better today. There's still every chance Anguissa will get better. These players clearly needed time, and in some cases, perhaps need a bit more time still.
Now I'm not saying they'll all justify what we paid for them, but I still think the biggest problem isn't who we've signed, but how late we signed them. That's down to Tony Khan and Mackintosh, not the players themselves.
Personally I think at least Mawson, Chambers and Anguissa should be given until Christmas before they are judged. Which still leaves time to buy new players in January, if they're still necessary.
Nathaniel Clyne is the only one I would buy/try to buy. I feel that all of our signings will come good(or most of them) except for the rb position. Fosu-Mensah just isn't concentrated enough and has no passion, while Christie is championship quality rb. Other than that, I would maybe even get a very fast tricky type winger,as an alternative to Schuerrle, as I am afraid that Kebano/Kamara/Ayite just aren't good enough.
Definitely need another centre back (a leader) and to replace Seri with a Premiership experienced grafter. Seri will be as much use as a chocolate teapot in a relegation scrap. Plus yes a right back.
Quote from: Statto on November 11, 2018, 08:44:51 PM
Would rather concentrate on integrating the players we've got before giving up and thinking about replacements.
Rico has only just started looking good. Mawson and Chambers looked better today. There's still every chance Anguissa will get better. These players clearly needed time, and in some cases, perhaps need a bit more time still.
Now I'm not saying they'll all justify what we paid for them, but I still think the biggest problem isn't who we've signed, bdut how late we signed them. That's down to Tony Khan and Mackintosh, not the players themselves.
Personally I think at least Mawson, Chambers and Anguissa should be given until Christmas before they are judged. Which still leaves time to buy new players in January, if they're still necessary.
Could not have put it better myself. Have always said, it will take till Xmas to get things fully up to speed. Was hoping it would be better than it has been but maybe there are signs that things are about to get better.
Quote from: Statto on November 11, 2018, 08:44:51 PM
Would rather concentrate on integrating the players we've got before giving up and thinking about replacements.
Rico has only just started looking good. Mawson and Chambers looked better today. There's still every chance Anguissa will get better. These players clearly needed time, and in some cases, perhaps need a bit more time still.
Now I'm not saying they'll all justify what we paid for them, but I still think the biggest problem isn't who we've signed, but how late we signed them. That's down to Tony Khan and Mackintosh, not the players themselves.
Personally I think at least Mawson, Chambers and Anguissa should be given until Christmas before they are judged. Which still leaves time to buy new players in January, if they're still necessary.
Very fair point Statto - I will attempt to see the best in Anguissa and give him time. I have had it with Fosu Mensah though - at least Christie does his best
Quote from: Statto on November 11, 2018, 08:44:51 PM
Would rather concentrate on integrating the players we've got before giving up and thinking about replacements.
Agreed. But the team needs depth. Premiere league quality depth.
Backup #10 that can also give something defensively, as well as a left or right back with pace. Maybe that person will be Joe Bryan, but I don't think Slav rates Joe at this level.
Quote from: HV71 on November 11, 2018, 10:06:57 PM
Quote from: Statto on November 11, 2018, 08:44:51 PM
Would rather concentrate on integrating the players we've got before giving up and thinking about replacements.
Rico has only just started looking good. Mawson and Chambers looked better today. There's still every chance Anguissa will get better. These players clearly needed time, and in some cases, perhaps need a bit more time still.
Now I'm not saying they'll all justify what we paid for them, but I still think the biggest problem isn't who we've signed, but how late we signed them. That's down to Tony Khan and Mackintosh, not the players themselves.
Personally I think at least Mawson, Chambers and Anguissa should be given until Christmas before they are judged. Which still leaves time to buy new players in January, if they're still necessary.
Very fair point Statto - I will attempt to see the best in Anguissa and give him time. I have had it with Fosu Mensah though - at least Christie does his best
Agreed, see my comments on the Fosu-Mensah and Anguissa thread!!! You're right, the boy just doesn't even seem to try.
I wouldn't be against giving the players we brought in an ultimatum.
If you aren't happy, and want to leave (Seri being the prime candidate), then we could cut both parties losses and try and move them on.
Quote from: Statto on November 11, 2018, 08:44:51 PM
Would rather concentrate on integrating the players we've got before giving up and thinking about replacements.
Rico has only just started looking good. Mawson and Chambers looked better today. There's still every chance Anguissa will get better. These players clearly needed time, and in some cases, perhaps need a bit more time still.
Now I'm not saying they'll all justify what we paid for them, but I still think the biggest problem isn't who we've signed, but how late we signed them. That's down to Tony Khan and Mackintosh, not the players themselves.
Personally I think at least Mawson, Chambers and Anguissa should be given until Christmas before they are judged. Which still leaves time to buy new players in January, if they're still necessary.
But in another thread you have no problem in leaving Mawson out for 6 games? Think Slav could have played better with the hand delt to him but agree it wasn't a great hand. Surely just watching tapes of these players previous (pre Fulham) performances would give him an idea of whether they are better than our other options. I'm Slav in btw but hopefully he has learnt from his mistakes as the underperforming players have.
Quote from: Jonaldiniho 88 on November 11, 2018, 11:10:35 PM
Quote from: Statto on November 11, 2018, 08:44:51 PM
Would rather concentrate on integrating the players we've got before giving up and thinking about replacements.
Rico has only just started looking good. Mawson and Chambers looked better today. There's still every chance Anguissa will get better. These players clearly needed time, and in some cases, perhaps need a bit more time still.
Now I'm not saying they'll all justify what we paid for them, but I still think the biggest problem isn't who we've signed, but how late we signed them. That's down to Tony Khan and Mackintosh, not the players themselves.
Personally I think at least Mawson, Chambers and Anguissa should be given until Christmas before they are judged. Which still leaves time to buy new players in January, if they're still necessary.
But in another thread you have no problem in leaving Mawson out for 6 games? Think Slav could have played better with the hand delt to him but agree it wasn't a great hand. Surely just watching tapes of these players previous (pre Fulham) performances would give him an idea of whether they are better than our other options. I'm Slav in btw but hopefully he has learnt from his mistakes as the underperforming players have.
Don't see any contradiction there.
Mawson was signed injured, having been out since what, April or May? So he was always going to take some time to get ready.
6 games into the season, Watford, he clearly still wasn't ready at that point.
So Slav has left him out for a bit longer, and now he's come in today after 11 games and finally looked half decent.
Maybe he should have come in at 8, 9 or 10 games, I don't know, but don't see how anyone on here can really challenge Joka on that when we are not on the training ground.
In any case the point is he needed time as I said, whether it's 8, 9, 10 or 11 games...
again, do not really see where you are coming from contrasting the two threads??
It's not fair to judge these players until after Christmas but it was after 45 minutes. Fully fit players have bad games. If he was fit that day and is our only prem quality CB then leaving him out for so long is as stupid as not giving him a run in the team now. That's only my opinion and I'm not saying you are wrong but after chopping and changing and it going badly you need to sit down and stick with who, when in a settled team are your best players and let them improve.
Quote from: Jonaldiniho 88 on November 11, 2018, 11:27:35 PM
It's not fair to judge these players until after Christmas but it was after 45 minutes. Fully fit players have bad games. If he was fit that day and is our only prem quality CB then leaving him out for so long is as stupid as not giving him a run in the team now. That's only my opinion and I'm not saying you are wrong but after chopping and changing and it going badly you need to sit down and stick with who, when in a settled team are your best players and let them improve.
But I am not saying after those 45 mins he's crap and should be replaced in January.
I'm saying he's not ready yet, try again in a few weeks.
I know what you mean about getting a run in the team and have had the same moan previously, but now I am getting more inclined to give joka the benefit of the doubt and say maybe some players just need(ed) more time on the training ground getting match sharpness, learning the lingo, familiarising with teammates, practising quick short passing, the side to side build up routine etc
Yeah I mean that game was 7 weeks ago (Watford) and they always say fit isn't match fit. Only way to get that is by playing. I saw more kicking the ball out from Mawson that sideways passing but I have no problem with that if that clears danger. I suppose my point is that if you are the best we have you deserve sticking with and more faith should have been shown in him. The fastest way to get to optimum level is to play the team that will get you there. I think Slav has had to eat a bit of humble pie and throw some of his philosophy out the window to stop conceding so much. I know it's not as easy as saying "he cost 20mil, he is our best CB" but I have really wanted him in the team to give him a chance for some time now.
Quote from: Spirit of 2000 on November 11, 2018, 09:45:30 PM
Definitely need another centre back (a leader) and to replace Seri with a Premiership experienced grafter. Seri will be as much use as a chocolate teapot in a relegation scrap. Plus yes a right back.
Think we need a right back and a left back
What we have to do is stop wasting money on unproven talent,example 30 million on Anguissa.
I know it was a buy out clause but Liverpool got Shaqiri for 13.7 million,and most of all has premier experience.
Isn't it amazing that almost everything that has gone wrong with the club in recent years can be attributed to the often poor decision-making of Tony Kahn and Alastair Mackintosh?
Surely Mawson is our answer to a player like Lewis Dunk and surely should have a more regular place in the side.
100% we have to continue with Mawson as the heart of our defence. He's youngish and will get better, dominant physically which is somethign we've lacked, has premiership experience and was seriously rated at Swansea to the point of being on the verge of an international call up. I still think we need to sign a Cahill or someone with experience and who's a leader at the back in January. An experienced premiership right back is also a must. People have said Clyne from Pool which would be great but am not sure he'd want to come here in the state we're in & even then he'd cost a packet and we DO need to consider FFP even in the premiership. Danny Simpson from Leicester who's lost his place would be a much cheaper pragmatic solution.
If Jokanovic had any say in the recruitment process, he surely would have signed Andrija Zivkovic, who, with his creativity and ability to invent a goal opportunity out of nowhere, is just something Fulham needs to be more deadly in attack...
Not sure how many established premier players would want to leave cosy jobs - even if they are not regulars - and transfer into a team lying in bottom 3 - we may be better looking at championship players who are hungry - then we could be building for promotion the following season if we do go down - but please no more loanees who are not committed to a fight
The big disappointments among the new players are Seri and Anguissa, two key players intended to replace Macdonald and Johansen who with Cairney formed the magnificent mid field engine room from last season.
This season's midfield has been a shadow of last season's and after a dozen matches there is no sign of Seri or Anguissa finding form, Jocanovic now has a midfield problem. Not sure we can afford to gamble on yet another big money midfielder who could flop.
I agree with pretty much everything that has been said about Seri and Anguissa, BUT it really grinds my gears that Tom Cairney escapes any criticism or abuse, he has been abysmal this season, not just the fact that He's doing everything at walking pace, it's his entire body language, which for any player is unacceptable but for a Captain it's disgraceful,
What was he doing for the second Liverpool goal ? Just let his man go and allowed him to score,
Against Southampton I would actually include Seri and Anguissa before I include Cairney,
I've been supporting Fulham since 1970, and I've been wracking my brains to think of a worse Captain than Cairney, any suggestions ?
If I produced a list of the Top 20 Captains of my time, I can tell you now Cairney wouldn't be on it,
Take the arm band off him and give it to Mawson and let's get some leadership on the pitch,
Cairney has signed a 5 year contract which makes him the luckiest player in top flight football as I can't see any other club wanting him, we turned down £20 million for him (apparently) from Newcastle, what would you value him at now ?
Prior to the Transfer Window, we have to build the defence round Alfie Mawson, I am sure Calum Chambers will come good because these guys will stand up and fight the good fight, because this is a survival fight from this moment on. Hopefully Joe Bryan will recover in time because that left back position needs to be covered for the sake of the balance of the defence.
Players like Denis Odoi you know will give his all no matter what.
Kebano and Ayite are worthy of a chance as opposed to Schurrie, Seri and Vieto, whose ability to roll their sleeves up is currently not in their DNA.
What about Cisse, he is another warrior who is in the payroll but is a forgotten man.
If you include Johanson and McDonald in a squad to be picked from, there is a heart beat in there, amongst those players. As for Sess, he is a nailed on for starting further up the pitch.
Once that heart beat is ticking, Christie can do a job, which not only we will get the best out of him, but also Tom Cairney and Zambo will up their game because the Leaders amongst them will ensure they do, because if Jok has anything about him he will ensure they have a common purpose, that way there will be a team spirit develop again amongst them.
Mitrovic is top man, but needs support, if he recognises he is not the only warrior in the team he will continue to run his heart out. Because he has the heart the size of a football as Mawson, Mcdonald and Joganson have, with those Lieutenants on the pitch, others will up their game to compete.
Then whatever our position some the Window, we need the cavalry of the likes of Gary Cahill, to enable us to get over the line and still be in the Premier League, and then start the process of rebuilding round the players already here to ensure next season, we have no passengers, no lightweights, no big time Charlie's, only team men, and get rid of the stats merchants, and self appointed recruitment unit.
Whatever your opinions of our team and individual performances on Sunday v Liverpool.
What it did show is what you can do when you set out your stall with some organisation and preparation, because we were still in the game even st 2 0, we had managed to get one back, we would have thrown the kitchen sink at them.
Please this was not Burnley at home, this was Liverpool at Anfield, who have slaughtered some of the best teams in the League there.
A slight concern is Joks substitutions, poor judgement and game management there.
At home to the Saints, we cannot afford to go gung-ho I don't think, set ourselves up to hard to beat with a strong foundation round Mawson, Rico appears to have played himself into the team also.
This is no time for faint hearts and players with no fire in their belly.
Out of Seri, Vieto and Schurrie, Schurrie is the only one I may start providing he is instructed to play within the framework of the team and roll his sleeves up, the other two can be used as subs when their is no danger of us losing the game, until they learn this League is no picnic, and they are lightweights mentally and physically, not equipped to battle in the English Premier League.
Strong mentality is required, and if Slavisa cannot recognise this, and show in his selections that he recognises this. Then his position may become untenable.
For the time being forget pretty football, we are fighting for our Premier League lives, as other teams will be doing.
Our season starts when we kick off at home to Southampton, Jok picks the team, and the system of play, and he better start getting it right, and put away any personal feelings that he may have about certain players, because sometimes I feel he sometimes keeps things inside and only shows it in his selections. Because despite this shocking run prior to the Liverpool game both in performance and results, he continued to play players whose body language and application stunk under the nostrils of honest men.
Yes I do blame players and I do blame the stats and recruitment teams, but Jok has to take responsibility at the end of day.
Of course he is never going to be the life and soul of the party.
But he has to be far more proactive and assertive all round, whether it's in his character or not.
That's what his job is, if he cannot do that, then he falls short.
If he asked me to run through a brick wall for him and come out fighting on the other side, I may think about it.
Whereas if Bobby Robson, Brian Clough, Bill Shankly, Billy Bonds, Terry Venables, Alf Ramsey, Bill Nicholson, Ron Saunders, Bob Paisley, Roy Hodgson, Malcolm Allison and Alec Stock asked me for instance, I would not hesitate.
Quote from: Spirit of 2000 on November 12, 2018, 08:54:43 AM
100% we have to continue with Mawson as the heart of our defence. He's youngish and will get better, dominant physically which is somethign we've lacked, has premiership experience and was seriously rated at Swansea to the point of being on the verge of an international call up. I still think we need to sign a Cahill or someone with experience and who's a leader at the back in January. An experienced premiership right back is also a must. People have said Clyne from Pool which would be great but am not sure he'd want to come here in the state we're in & even then he'd cost a packet and we DO need to consider FFP even in the premiership. Danny Simpson from Leicester who's lost his place would be a much cheaper pragmatic solution.
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Quote from: Riversider on November 13, 2018, 01:59:04 PM
I agree with pretty much everything that has been said about Seri and Anguissa, BUT it really grinds my gears that Tom Cairney escapes any criticism or abuse...
I think you are being harsh bUT I agree the point about us turning down the Newcastle bid is a good one. Fact is, Effectively Cairney cost us £20m, because that's what we'd have sitting in the bank if we'd sold him. once you account for Le Marchand, the fee paid to Nice for Seri was probably only about £25m, so the two players have basically cost a similar amount each, and shold be judged by the same standards.
As others have said, neither is going to win many tackles or headers or perform at high standard over a 38 game season it seems, although IMO Seri still showed in our first few games that he's capable of playing at a level above Cairney when he's at the top of his game.
If we end up sticking with two DMs, Anguissa and Chambers, it may be a blessing because neither Seri nor Cairney seem capable of doing 38 games, so we can rotate between them in that 3rd midfield spot, depending which one of them is fit and up for it.
Quote from: Riversider on November 13, 2018, 01:59:04 PM
I agree with pretty much everything that has been said about Seri and Anguissa, BUT it really grinds my gears that Tom Cairney escapes any criticism or abuse, he has been abysmal this season, not just the fact that He's doing everything at walking pace, it's his entire body language, which for any player is unacceptable but for a Captain it's disgraceful,
What was he doing for the second Liverpool goal ? Just let his man go and allowed him to score,
Against Southampton I would actually include Seri and Anguissa before I include Cairney,
I've been supporting Fulham since 1970, and I've been wracking my brains to think of a worse Captain than Cairney, any suggestions ?
If I produced a list of the Top 20 Captains of my time, I can tell you now Cairney wouldn't be on it,
Take the arm band off him and give it to Mawson and let's get some leadership on the pitch,
Cairney has signed a 5 year contract which makes him the luckiest player in top flight football as I can't see any other club wanting him, we turned down £20 million for him (apparently) from Newcastle, what would you value him at now ?
All of the a above is perhaps a little strong but true, I just didn.t want to say it because of the fact that Cairney has been so good in the past and is a favourite to most of us. Also I thought perhaps he is still nervous about his injury and will improve by the game.
The hard fact is then that Cairney, Seri and Anguissa are not performing as they were expected to which is a dreadful blow to the team.
