Having feature for 90 minutes today v Liverpool, what were your thoughts on Alfie Mawson? Rumours had been circling, that he wasn't in Slavisa's plans, because he didn't play the ball out quick enough, and was far to slow.
Mawson is seen as a Dunk type CB, and Brighton seem to facilitate him well in their set-up, so, we'd like to hear your thoughts.
I feel Slav got it wrong and should have been in earlier (when he was fit) and certainly should not have been sat on his arse for four games whole nit getting a kick. He should be... And Chambers in my view.... At the centre of the defence from now on.
Solid. We must persevere with him.
His attitude and leadership qualities were never in question at Swansea . He is a very decent player and should have even back in the side earlier. I am a big fan of Joka but Mawsons omission has been a mistake
Why he has been left out is a mystery to me. I thought at the time that he was our most important signing in the summer as he is exactly,what we have been missing. A proper centre half with leadership qualities. Let's hope it was just a fitness issue and now he has had a decent 90 minutes he will help solidify our defence.
Quote from: HV71 on November 11, 2018, 09:53:45 PM
His attitude and leadership qualities were never in question at Swansea . He is a very decent player and should have even back in the side earlier. I am a big fan of Joka but Mawsons omission has been a mistake
Agree. Imagine if both him and Rico played from the start of the season. I believe we would have 12-15 points at least.
Solid defender and it all works if we defend a little deeper
Alfie Mawson top player, top defender, top leader, top man.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on November 11, 2018, 10:19:32 PM
Alfie Mawson top player, top defender, top leader, top man.
Top hat, top cat
Against Watford he was woeful.
Probably the worst CB performance I have seen since THAT Sigurdsson game, against Forest IIRC.
Not sure how anyone at the Watford game can question the decision to leave him out for a run after that
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He was truly woeful in that game - and there must have been something very wrong- I just find it strange that he came back in today when it was obviously going to be an uphill task . I just think he is a much better player than he showed against Watford- which was totally out of character
Quote from: Statto on November 11, 2018, 10:34:06 PM
Against Watford he was woeful.
Probably the worst CB performance I have seen since THAT Sigurdsson game, against Forest IIRC.
Not sure how anyone at the Watford game can question the decision to leave him out for a run after that
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He was poor in that game, but I'd also question why Slav swapped him and Chambers over so the both played in the wrong sides of the CB.
So one bad game gets you out for five or six games while we ship goals left right and centre? If we did that with every player we would soon run out of players to use.
Quote from: MJG on November 11, 2018, 10:50:05 PM
Quote from: Statto on November 11, 2018, 10:34:06 PM
Against Watford he was woeful.
Probably the worst CB performance I have seen since THAT Sigurdsson game, against Forest IIRC.
Not sure how anyone at the Watford game can question the decision to leave him out for a run after that
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He was poor in that game, but I'd also question why Slav swapped him and Chambers over so the both played in the wrong sides of the CB.
So one bad game gets you out for five or six games while we ship goals left right and centre? If we did that with every player we would soon run out of players to use.
Well you have to get dropped after a poor game when you're unproven and competing with other new players all champing at the bit for the same places. Nothing unusual about that surely.
Not exactly the same situation I know, but all Kalas did last year was get a minor injury and he lost his place to Odoi. Odoi then played well and Kalas got left out for the rest of the season, not just rotated back in after a game or two. Similar thing happened with Button getting dropped and Bettinelli taking his place for the rest of the season. And others I'm sure.
I suppose you'll say the distinction here is the people who replaced him weren't playing well either, so he should have been rotated back in. I can sympathise with that, maybe he should have come back after 2-3 games rather than 6, but for me it's not something you can put a number on and say X games is right and Y games is wrong.
Quote from: MJG on November 11, 2018, 10:50:05 PM
Quote from: Statto on November 11, 2018, 10:34:06 PM
Against Watford he was woeful.
Probably the worst CB performance I have seen since THAT Sigurdsson game, against Forest IIRC.
Not sure how anyone at the Watford game can question the decision to leave him out for a run after that
1500.gif
He was poor in that game, but I'd also question why Slav swapped him and Chambers over so the both played in the wrong sides of the CB.
So one bad game gets you out for five or six games while we ship goals left right and centre? If we did that with every player we would soon run out of players to use.
Perhaps he was and is trying to protect certain players until they have A. acclimated to UK football or B. Fit C. Deserve their chance to replace an existing starting 11 or D. all of the above.
If that's the process, and we start getting results, it will make good sense.
Pretty big IF.
Quote from: Statto on November 11, 2018, 10:34:06 PM
Against Watford he was woeful.
Probably the worst CB performance I have seen since THAT Sigurdsson game, against Forest IIRC.
Not sure how anyone at the Watford game can question the decision to leave him out for a run after that
1500.gif
Defending is all about unity,when he came in against Watford our defence were all strangers to one another,also I don't think he was fully recovered in that game,and that is the reason he has been benched.
As of yesterday I'm sure well see a better player emerge now getting fully fit,someone doesn't become a bad player overnight.
I think its a bit of horses for courses. After the second half at v Watford he has decided to stick with the cbs more comfortable on the ball as playing out was his priority . This suits mawson less than say Ream.Once we continued to ship goals priorities have changed as even keeping possession was starting to be more difficult. Agree with MJG that chambers and Mawson at CB is probably the way forward . But it depends on what the players are being asked or told to do .Chambers has been very poor when trying to do things that dont suit his game (overplaying ),but looked good yesterday when given a defensive covering role. Gave us steel in the middle . Think he can even do that at Cb if the emphasisis is on defending and not playing out.
Quote from: Statto on November 11, 2018, 10:34:06 PM
Against Watford he was woeful.
Probably the worst CB performance I have seen since THAT Sigurdsson game, against Forest IIRC.
Not sure how anyone at the Watford game can question the decision to leave him out for a run after that
1500.gif
your right alongside Chambers v Watford the pair of them awful that game.He was complete opposite yesterday a rock so well played Alfie that's the standard,also odoi was superb yesterday.
Odi was superb apart from losing the ball several times in important positions and making a vital, bad decision in the lead up to Liverpool's winning goal. Just the sort of thing you will be punished for at the top level.
I tell you what I saw from him which I commented on after our last defeat.
Every time we made a tackle, cleared the ball or put it out to touch rather than turn with it, he would first pump or high five the player who did it.
The defence played for one on other yesterday and Mawson a few times cleared up balls that had he not been switched on wouldn't have had the pace to deal with. He reads the game well.
Odoi played well but sometimes his mazy runs from deep are exciting on the eye but made my bum hole twitch and they are what can land us in trouble
To be charitable, perhaps he wasn't fully fit before but he has real leadership quality and guts and has earned himself a place after yesterday. Chambers as well, in my view, in that alternative position. I'd stick with that back 5 for a bit.
He was dreadful against Watford & was hooked off at half time. It was only the third game he started in the league.
Hes been fit for weeks now & hasnt figured for a couple reasons, one was touched on in an earlier reply the other hasnt been mentioned.
Fully fit & playing well he walks into that defence, sometimes,even in the premier league you need substance over style, thats not to say he cant play a bit because he can
Seems to be fitter now so should be in our starting XI without doubt.
Hopefully him and Rico in a settled back four will bring more stability as those two will be the most likely to bring some much needed organisation / leadership.
agree with most of the last comments. Shocking performance against Watford but can't imagine next game without him starting. Quality player.
But you can't keep dropping players for one poor performance. If you think they are good enough. How many games has Ream had this season and played poorly, given the ball away and been slow to cover. Part of our problem has been the consistent inconsistency of the team sheet. IF we can please have a settled side. Not drop Christie for one or two iffy games when he is clearly a better player than is given credit for. The same with Mawson. I think the fact that we have to change tactics means we have to fit in players that do not fit with the gung ho attitude of the past. Defenders that can defend is a good thing.
But in the next game changing the side again to fit a type of game we want to play will be a mistake. Keep a settled side where possible. Mawson will come good. Allow him the time to do so.
Quote from: Lighthouse on November 12, 2018, 10:28:50 AM
But you can't keep dropping players for one poor performance. If you think they are good enough. How many games has Ream had this season and played poorly, given the ball away and been slow to cover. Part of our problem has been the consistent inconsistency of the team sheet. IF we can please have a settled side. Not drop Christie for one or two iffy games when he is clearly a better player than is given credit for. The same with Mawson. I think the fact that we have to change tactics means we have to fit in players that do not fit with the gung ho attitude of the past. Defenders that can defend is a good thing.
But in the next game changing the side again to fit a type of game we want to play will be a mistake. Keep a settled side where possible. Mawson will come good. Allow him the time to do so.
Quite agree - and Chambers in the new position.
I think we now have to forget Mawson's performance against Watford , he could just be just the solid centre back we need, lets see how he performs against Southampton.
Not sure what Joka was up to against watford.
mawson on the right when he prefers the left and Chambers the left when he favours the right.
Almost as if he was trying to set them some sort of test, couldn't understand why you'd experiment like that at the time and still can't. the best i could come up with was that he wanted to try mawson on the right to play him with Ream/MLM but other than that it was a very odd decision.
I think he has not been at the races since moving to us due to his surgery but based on yesterdays performance now looks fully fit. He must start every game now in my opinion. Chambers worked well as DM so not adverse to us continuing with this either.
We don't know how fit he was before. If he wasn't match fit it was right he didn't start.
Quote from: Lighthouse on November 12, 2018, 10:28:50 AM
But you can't keep dropping players for one poor performance. If you think they are good enough. How many games has Ream had this season and played poorly, given the ball away and been slow to cover. Part of our problem has been the consistent inconsistency of the team sheet. IF we can please have a settled side. Not drop Christie for one or two iffy games when he is clearly a better player than is given credit for. The same with Mawson. I think the fact that we have to change tactics means we have to fit in players that do not fit with the gung ho attitude of the past. Defenders that can defend is a good thing.
But in the next game changing the side again to fit a type of game we want to play will be a mistake. Keep a settled side where possible. Mawson will come good. Allow him the time to do so.
Completely agree with this. Sometime this season I have felt that Joka is watching the forums and when people shouted for Christie to be dropped via Arsenal, he obliged. Same with Chambers and Mawson. Kind of funny. Stay off the boards, Slav!
I thought he defended well enough and should keep his place. With the ball at his feet he seemed a little nervous as though playing out from the back isn't something he is comfortable and could explain the length of time he has been kept out of the team.
Quote from: Tonywa on November 12, 2018, 08:39:07 AM
Odi was superb apart from losing the ball several times in important positions and making a vital, bad decision in the lead up to Liverpool's winning goal. Just the sort of thing you will be punished for at the top level.
Isn't Odi the overly salivating dog in the Garfield cartoons? And can he play DM ?
Quote from: Statto on November 11, 2018, 10:34:06 PM
Against Watford he was woeful.
Probably the worst CB performance I have seen since THAT Sigurdsson game, against Forest IIRC.
Not sure how anyone at the Watford game can question the decision to leave him out for a run after that
1500.gif
Absolutely agree. I hope he turns out to be the centre-half we thought we had bought, but the Watford game ... well, Joka was totally right to question his credentials.
Quote from: HillingdonFFC on November 12, 2018, 09:23:25 AM
He was dreadful against Watford & was hooked off at half time. It was only the third game he started in the league.
Hes been fit for weeks now & hasnt figured for a couple reasons, one was touched on in an earlier reply the other hasnt been mentioned.
Fully fit & playing well he walks into that defence, sometimes,even in the premier league you need substance over style, thats not to say he cant play a bit because he can
I believe you know his father and therefore wouldn't expect you to break confidences as to why he has not been picked. Either way it is a disgrace that Jok hasn't given him more playing time given the dreadful number of goals we have conceded with the others playing. Thankfully he had a decent game yesterday so hopefully he will be in the team each week from now on as on last seasons performances he walks into our defence.
Interestingly 12 games into the season and Wolves have had the same back 5 in each of the 12 games. By comparison we have had 12 difference variations in those 12 games. Time now hopefully for some consistency given that we also seem to have resolved the keeper position in favour of Rico
Quote from: HillingdonFFC on November 12, 2018, 09:23:25 AM
He was dreadful against Watford & was hooked off at half time. It was only the third game he started in the league.
Hes been fit for weeks now & hasnt figured for a couple reasons, one was touched on in an earlier reply the other hasnt been mentioned.
Fully fit & playing well he walks into that defence, sometimes,even in the premier league you need substance over style, thats not to say he cant play a bit because he can
Any chance you could elaborate on the issues with Mawson?
Appreciate you can't betray confidences but are they tactics, manager, health etc etc?
Always find this stuff concerning but it goes on in all football clubs I guess....
There'll always be conspiracy theories wherever there are people simply because some things involving decision making seem unfair to at least one person. There is probably at least a grain of truth in all of these but that is all there is to counter the truths that suggest fairness. The defence was better on Sunday simply because moving Chambers into covering midfield, a job he did well, worked at eleiminating some of the awful problems our midfield have created for themselves. There was cohesion in defence and I suspect it would work better for any back four. The only failure was Cairney not staying close to Shaqiri when the second goal was created. He needed to shout at Christie to cover Shaqiri instead of being one of three marking the same man. He didn't and we shipped a goal. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Mawson did well but then why wouldn't he?
Quote from: HillingdonFFC on November 12, 2018, 09:23:25 AM
He was dreadful against Watford & was hooked off at half time. It was only the third game he started in the league.
Hes been fit for weeks now & hasnt figured for a couple reasons, one was touched on in an earlier reply the other hasnt been mentioned.
Fully fit & playing well he walks into that defence, sometimes,even in the premier league you need substance over style, thats not to say he cant play a bit because he can
:plus one:
