Morning all. I know this is past its day but this £5m bonus nonsense for Richard Scudamore's retirement for 'doing a good job'. Does anyone else recall a while back he nearly had to resign over crude emails? Or is this me going soft between the ears?
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Quote from: bog on November 18, 2018, 02:16:18 PM
Morning all. I know this is past its day but this £5m bonus nonsense for Richard Scudamore's retirement for 'doing a good job'. Does anyone else recall a while back he nearly had to resign over crude emails? Or is this me going soft between the ears?
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That is something I vaguely have in back of my mind,
Personally that £250k from each club would be better served by putting into local grass roots etc.
I mentioned this a while back. But I have to admit I am out of touch and out of step with many peoples thoughts on this and other matters. But I find the 5million bonus an obscenity. I am told to look a the money he has brought into the game. But to me doing his job means he has earned the inflated wages he receives. A huge bonus like this is just disgusting. With all that is going on, all the inflated ticket prices that will eventually catch up with the game. The clubs are being asked to pay this person a bonus.
The fact that he may or may not have sent crude emails is one thing. But the game and indeed many of our business and political institutions are morally and ethically corrupt.
Everything about it sums up what a f@kd up world we live in!
Quote from: Lighthouse on November 18, 2018, 02:39:43 PM
I mentioned this a while back. But I have to admit I am out of touch and out of step with many peoples thoughts on this and other matters. But I find the 5million bonus an obscenity. I am told to look a the money he has brought into the game. But to me doing his job means he has earned the inflated wages he receives. A huge bonus like this is just disgusting. With all that is going on, all the inflated ticket prices that will eventually catch up with the game. The clubs are being asked to pay this person a bonus.
The fact that he may or may not have sent crude emails is one thing. But the game and indeed many of our business and political institutions are morally and ethically corrupt.
The money was already in the game from sky, he was at the right place at the right time couldnt really fail to sell world tv right for more as the best players where here already
Quote from: Nero on November 18, 2018, 03:51:36 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on November 18, 2018, 02:39:43 PM
I mentioned this a while back. But I have to admit I am out of touch and out of step with many peoples thoughts on this and other matters. But I find the 5million bonus an obscenity. I am told to look a the money he has brought into the game. But to me doing his job means he has earned the inflated wages he receives. A huge bonus like this is just disgusting. With all that is going on, all the inflated ticket prices that will eventually catch up with the game. The clubs are being asked to pay this person a bonus.
The fact that he may or may not have sent crude emails is one thing. But the game and indeed many of our business and political institutions are morally and ethically corrupt.
The money was already in the game from sky, he was at the right place at the right time couldnt really fail to sell world tv right for more as the best players where here already
This is like the guy at Persimmon getting a massive bonus for generating profits in a period of massive property price growth.
With hindsight it always looks like these people were in the right place at the right time, and we wonder, does anyone deserve that much money?
How many start-up businesses would succeed without good luck? Was our chairman such an expert in car bumpers that Flex-N-Gate would have been just as successful if you take all luck out the equation? Would Amstrad have made Sugar all that money if it hadn't been the 80s when PCs took off and the internet got invented? Now they're billionaires, much richer than Scudamore. Do they deserve it?
As I said on another thread by my fag-packet calculations this £5m payment equates to a c. 0.25% bonus. Would anyone have thought it unreasonable at the time if that had been written into his contract when he took over all those years ago?
There's a big difference between say Sugar (who I dislike having met him a couple of times) who risked his own money initially to establish his business, earning his fortune and Scudamore who was simply doing a job for which he was already handsomely rewarded.
I think it is a disgrace to make this payment whether it is out of central funds or from each League club. It demonstrates how out of touch these executives are with the average fan. Interestingly his replacement has no experience in the sports/football industry but has extensive experience of negotiating lucrative TV contracts. This tells us all we need to know even if she is a Fulham ST holder
Quote from: Statto on November 18, 2018, 04:10:11 PM
Quote from: Nero on November 18, 2018, 03:51:36 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on November 18, 2018, 02:39:43 PM
I mentioned this a while back. But I have to admit I am out of touch and out of step with many peoples thoughts on this and other matters. But I find the 5million bonus an obscenity. I am told to look a the money he has brought into the game. But to me doing his job means he has earned the inflated wages he receives. A huge bonus like this is just disgusting. With all that is going on, all the inflated ticket prices that will eventually catch up with the game. The clubs are being asked to pay this person a bonus.
The fact that he may or may not have sent crude emails is one thing. But the game and indeed many of our business and political institutions are morally and ethically corrupt.
The money was already in the game from sky, he was at the right place at the right time couldnt really fail to sell world tv right for more as the best players where here already
This is like the guy at Persimmon getting a massive bonus for generating profits in a period of massive property price growth.
With hindsight it always looks like these people were in the right place at the right time, and we wonder, does anyone deserve that much money?
How many start-up businesses would succeed without good luck? Was our chairman such an expert in car bumpers that Flex-N-Gate would have been just as successful if you take all luck out the equation? Would Amstrad have made Sugar all that money if it hadn't been the 80s when PCs took off and the internet got invented? Now they're billionaires, much richer than Scudamore. Do they deserve it?
As I said on another thread by my fag-packet calculations this £5m payment equates to a c. 0.25% bonus. Would anyone have thought it unreasonable at the time if that had been written into his contract when he took over all those years ago?
He received a bonus each year on top of his annual salary. Bonus should be paid out under a scheme where it can be demonstrated that the individual has delivered under the established criteria - not some big round figure that your mate Mr Buck has dreamed up. He has earned some £26m during his time in position. There was no obligation to pay a bonus, he stepped down of his own volition
What makes this bonus sit particularly uncomfortably with me is the fact that Bruce Buck from the scum down the road was the one who put forward this idea, and was the one who organised it. What does this say about the hierarchy in the league, and which clubs hold all the power and influence in the league's decision making and organisation? It's all well and good for the big clubs with their huge revenues to scrape £250k in small change together, however for everyone else it's not a completely insignificant amount of money just to give away.
Quote from: Statto on November 18, 2018, 04:10:11 PM
Quote from: Nero on November 18, 2018, 03:51:36 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on November 18, 2018, 02:39:43 PM
I mentioned this a while back. But I have to admit I am out of touch and out of step with many peoples thoughts on this and other matters. But I find the 5million bonus an obscenity. I am told to look a the money he has brought into the game. But to me doing his job means he has earned the inflated wages he receives. A huge bonus like this is just disgusting. With all that is going on, all the inflated ticket prices that will eventually catch up with the game. The clubs are being asked to pay this person a bonus.
The fact that he may or may not have sent crude emails is one thing. But the game and indeed many of our business and political institutions are morally and ethically corrupt.
The money was already in the game from sky, he was at the right place at the right time couldnt really fail to sell world tv right for more as the best players where here already
This is like the guy at Persimmon getting a massive bonus for generating profits in a period of massive property price growth.
With hindsight it always looks like these people were in the right place at the right time, and we wonder, does anyone deserve that much money?
How many start-up businesses would succeed without good luck? Was our chairman such an expert in car bumpers that Flex-N-Gate would have been just as successful if you take all luck out the equation? Would Amstrad have made Sugar all that money if it hadn't been the 80s when PCs took off and the internet got invented? Now they're billionaires, much richer than Scudamore. Do they deserve it?
As I said on another thread by my fag-packet calculations this £5m payment equates to a c. 0.25% bonus. Would anyone have thought it unreasonable at the time if that had been written into his contract when he took over all those years ago?
First of all, if £5 million is 0.25%, then his earnings have been two hundred million. I think 25% is closer to the mark, and that is 25% of his total earnings.
But this isn't a "bonus". He has been earning bonuses every year, huge bonuses on top of a huge salary. This is a hand-out between mates. There was no contractual obligation for this to be paid. He has already been paid something like £29 million, and yes, I would have objected (and still do object) to that level of remuneration. The Premier League was not a hard sell. English football has always been prominent in world terms. Teams like Manchester Utd and Liverpool had world-wide followings already. The English football leagues have always been regarded as the most competitive in the world. The promotion and selling of the Premier League product was never a difficult job.
Now, if Fulham is included in the list of teams being asked to contribute (or will it be pro-rata depending on the number of years teams have been in the league?) this is the equivalent of us being asked to hand over a tenner per person to someone who is already wealthy beyond our wildest dreams.
It's a total and absolute disgrace.
Quote from: Whitesideup on November 18, 2018, 04:40:51 PM
First of all, if £5 million is 0.25%, then his earnings have been two hundred million. I think 25% is closer to the mark, and that is 25% of his total earnings.
£5m is 0.25% of the money he has brought to the PL, which I reckon must be about £20 billion (the latest 3-yr deal TV deal alone is worth £5 billion, I believe
Quote from: Whitesideup on November 18, 2018, 04:40:51 PM
Now, if Fulham is included in the list of teams being asked to contribute (or will it be pro-rata depending on the number of years teams have been in the league?) this is the equivalent of us being asked to hand over a tenner per person to someone who is already wealthy beyond our wildest dreams.
It's a total and absolute disgrace.
By this logic, I paid £60 for Anguissa this summer... now that is a disgrace!
How many free season tickets Premier League clubs could hand out with Richard Scudamore's £5m bonus
Scudamore, the league's outgoing chief executive, is set to walk away with a £5million golden handshake
(https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article12663446.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/1_Premier-League-Media-Event.jpg)
Richard Scudamore, the Premier League's outgoing cheif executive, will walk away with £5million (Image: Getty)
Richard Scudamore's £5million bonus would be enough to hand out over 11,000 free season tickets across the Premier League.
The outgoing Premier League chief executive is set to net the farewell money when he officially leaves in January, after 19 years in the job.
However, it is a move that has outraged fans.
Top-flight clubs had reportedly been asked to chip in £250,000 each in order to fund the golden handshake, though the league insists the £5million comes from a central pot.
Despite TV rights increasing many times over during the course of his tenure, match going fans have continually felt the squeeze with prices going ever upwards.
Had Premier League clubs donated the £250,000 in question to the fans instead, then they could have given out 11,662 season tickets between them.
How many season tickets each club could give away...
Arsenal - 280
Bournemouth - 454
Brighton - 467
Burnley - 641
Cardiff - 896
Chelsea - 420
Crystal Palace - 500
Everton - 595
Fulham - 716
Huddersfield - 1,004
Leicester- 684
Liverpool - 364
Man City - 806
Man United - 469
Newcastle - 629
Southampton - 462
Tottenham - 314
Watford - 514
West Ham - 865
Wolves - 582
TOTAL - 11,662
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/how-many-free-season-tickets-13600399
My nephew said there was an e-petition on something called change.org.
Quote from: bog on November 18, 2018, 03:19:17 PM
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on November 18, 2018, 02:40:48 PM
Everything about it sums up what a f@kd up world we live in!
+1
+2. This "bonus" mentality pervades all of our society. Poor performance rewarded by multi million pound bonuses. The banking system where savers get nothing in interest and borrowers are charged plenty in order for the management to roll in cash on a regular bonus system. All the way down to waiters expecting bungs after cr@p meals and cr@p service.....
How much better the quarter of a million £ would've beeen spent on the FFC community programmes & teams. Although it made no difference, I'm glad we were opposed to this suggestion.
Quote from: ron on November 18, 2018, 07:21:49 PM
Quote from: bog on November 18, 2018, 03:19:17 PM
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on November 18, 2018, 02:40:48 PM
Everything about it sums up what a f@kd up world we live in!
+1
+2. This "bonus" mentality pervades all of our society. Poor performance rewarded by multi million pound bonuses. The banking system where savers get nothing in interest and borrowers are charged plenty in order for the management to roll in cash on a regular bonus system. All the way down to waiters expecting bungs after cr@p meals and cr@p service.....
I can't speak for waiters but as I said, Scudamore will have brought something like £20 billion into the PL, the Persimmon guy I mentioned, that people were kicking-off about a few weeks ago, increased the value of the company from something like £3 billion to £7 billion in five years, and I can tell you all sorts about what bankers do. If generating billions of pounds for your company and its shareholders (many of whom, by the way, will be ordinary savers like you or me, or pension funds for nurses or teachers) is "poor performance" then I'd be interested to know what good performance looks like.
Glad Fulham said no to the idea I read it on the bbc
Quote from: keithh on November 18, 2018, 06:10:32 PM
My nephew said there was an e-petition on something called change.org.
https://www.change.org/p/give-scudamore-s-5m-golden-handshake-to-grassroots-football-in-britain-instead
Apparently there are concerns he may ply his revenue making trade for another league in Europe thus affecting the Premier. Emm.
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Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on November 18, 2018, 02:40:48 PM
Everything about it sums up what a f@kd up world we live in!
Absolutely agree with you. We are inflicted with a madness driven by greed and it will not stop until all of us make it stop.
If Executives at other Clubs want to give him a bonus. Fine let them give it out of their own pockets. Much like when a colleague leaves a company.
Quote from: EastEndWhite on November 19, 2018, 12:20:56 AM
Quote from: keithh on November 18, 2018, 06:10:32 PM
My nephew said there was an e-petition on something called change.org.
https://www.change.org/p/give-scudamore-s-5m-golden-handshake-to-grassroots-football-in-britain-instead
Added my name to this. Hope it works out.
Quote from: Statto on November 18, 2018, 09:36:44 PM
Quote from: ron on November 18, 2018, 07:21:49 PM
Quote from: bog on November 18, 2018, 03:19:17 PM
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on November 18, 2018, 02:40:48 PM
Everything about it sums up what a f@kd up world we live in!
+1
+2. This "bonus" mentality pervades all of our society. Poor performance rewarded by multi million pound bonuses. The banking system where savers get nothing in interest and borrowers are charged plenty in order for the management to roll in cash on a regular bonus system. All the way down to waiters expecting bungs after cr@p meals and cr@p service.....
I can't speak for waiters but as I said, Scudamore will have brought something like £20 billion into the PL, the Persimmon guy I mentioned, that people were kicking-off about a few weeks ago, increased the value of the company from something like £3 billion to £7 billion in five years, and I can tell you all sorts about what bankers do. If generating billions of pounds for your company and its shareholders (many of whom, by the way, will be ordinary savers like you or me, or pension funds for nurses or teachers) is "poor performance" then I'd be interested to know what good performance looks like.
As you well know there are numerous examples of Executives being paid handsomely to leave following poor performance. Nobody is saying that Scudamore is an example of poor performance. He did his job, earned on average £1.5m a year for 19 years including bonuses and then chose to leave. On what basis is another payment of £5m justified. If he felt he was entitled to more income during the course of the 19 years then he had the option to address this with his peers at the time. There simply are not any grounds for awarding him a golden handshake of £5m.
Whilst we are on this tack have you read about the PFA and Gordon Taylor. Unelected for 30+ years and now earning £2m+ a year. At long last some ex players are taking him to task and calling for an investigation and elections. Another ridiculous remuneration package.
Quote from: SG on November 19, 2018, 02:31:52 PM
Quote from: Statto on November 18, 2018, 09:36:44 PM
Quote from: ron on November 18, 2018, 07:21:49 PM
Quote from: bog on November 18, 2018, 03:19:17 PM
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on November 18, 2018, 02:40:48 PM
Everything about it sums up what a f@kd up world we live in!
+1
+2. This "bonus" mentality pervades all of our society. Poor performance rewarded by multi million pound bonuses. The banking system where savers get nothing in interest and borrowers are charged plenty in order for the management to roll in cash on a regular bonus system. All the way down to waiters expecting bungs after cr@p meals and cr@p service.....
I can't speak for waiters but as I said, Scudamore will have brought something like £20 billion into the PL, the Persimmon guy I mentioned, that people were kicking-off about a few weeks ago, increased the value of the company from something like £3 billion to £7 billion in five years, and I can tell you all sorts about what bankers do. If generating billions of pounds for your company and its shareholders (many of whom, by the way, will be ordinary savers like you or me, or pension funds for nurses or teachers) is "poor performance" then I'd be interested to know what good performance looks like.
As you well know there are numerous examples of Executives being paid handsomely to leave following poor performance. Nobody is saying that Scudamore is an example of poor performance. He did his job, earned on average £1.5m a year for 19 years including bonuses and then chose to leave. On what basis is another payment of £5m justified. If he felt he was entitled to more income during the course of the 19 years then he had the option to address this with his peers at the time. There simply are not any grounds for awarding him a golden handshake of £5m.
Whilst we are on this tack have you read about the PFA and Gordon Taylor. Unelected for 30+ years and now earning £2m+ a year. At long last some ex players are taking him to task and calling for an investigation and elections. Another ridiculous remuneration package.
If "Nobody is saying that Scudamore is an example of poor performance" then I don't really understand the relevance of this comment to a thread about Scudamore: "This 'bonus' mentality pervades all of our society. Poor performance rewarded by multi million pound bonuses."
As to your question "On what basis is another payment of £5m justified", well someone up the thread has already said "there are concerns he may ply his revenue making trade for another league in Europe thus affecting the Premier." It would make sense to me if this £5m payment was part of a gentlemen's agreement that he won't go and work for La Liga.
Of course we could all just get green with envy and outraged, sign our little petition online, have the £5m payment to him cancelled, then he goes and works for La Liga and the next £20 billion of Arab and Chinese investment in European football goes to Spain rather than England. Then English football will be much poorer but at least the JC4PM crew will be happy.
One of the things not being mentioned, is the fact it's not Scudamore instigating this bonus, he may well have his own views, he may accept say thank you and be on his way, or he may decide to use it for good causes, who knows, so let's not hang the bloke out until it's actually happened.
This sort of thing happens week in week out across many businesses . The need for it to be made public is a bit of a question. There are plenty of ways the Premier league could have taken payment without it being public knowledge. If we didn't know about it we wouldn't have said a thing, after all I'm sure 250k leaving the club is a deckchair off the titanic that was our summer spending.
What I don't understand though namely, why is it just 20 teams contributing when at least 40 teams last and present have reaped the rewards of those tv deals? Clubs like Villa, WBA, Boro all benefitted from these deals but pay nothing in return?
Quote from: Whitesideup on November 22, 2018, 10:28:51 AM
Of course we could all just get green with envy and outraged, sign our little petition online, have the £5m payment to him cancelled, then he goes and works for La Liga and the next £20 billion of Arab and Chinese investment in European football goes to Spain rather than England. Then English football will be much poorer but at least the JC4PM crew will be happy.
Statto - I think belittling people who don't agree with you is inappropriate. And you know what, I don't care if overseas investors want to plough money into other leagues. And apart from anything else, from a marketing perspective, which appears to escape you, they don't have the product. The reason the Premier League has been so successful was because it was the best product around, and distribution channels evolved over the years to make this product more accessible to bigger markets....not because of Scudamore. The product earned the income - the executives (note the plural) did the job of enhancing revenue streams for which they were handsomely rewarded.
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Quote from: Whitesideup on November 22, 2018, 10:29:31 AM
Statto - I think belittling people who don't agree with you is inappropriate. And you know what, I don't care if overseas investors want to plough money into other leagues. And apart from anything else, from a marketing perspective, which appears to escape you, they don't have the product. The reason the Premier League has been so successful was because it was the best product around, and distribution channels evolved over the years to make this product more accessible to bigger markets....not because of Scudamore. The product earned the income - the executives (note the plural) did the job of enhancing revenue streams for which they were handsomely rewarded.
"Belittling"? Hmmm... Sorry but the terms used on this thread so far include "nonsense", "obscenity", "disgusting", "morally and ethically corrupt", "f@kd up", "total and absolute disgrace", "madness driven by greed" and "ridiculous". That's in a thread still only on two pages.
Maybe it would be fairer to retract my last post and just reciprocate by saying I think you and anyone else who disagrees with me are talking nonsense, obscene, disgusting, morally and ethically corrupt, f@kd up, totally and absolutely disgraceful, mad and being ridiculous.
As to your right-place-right-time argument, we are going round in circles. As I said above, every good product looks an easy sell with hindsight. I'm sure it was very easy to sell computers in the 80s and 90s and social media in the 2000s. But then if selling computers, social media and English football was so easy, why didn't you or I do it and earn a tidy bonus like this for ourselves?
Seems like it's time to mutter something like;"That Scudamore's a lucky fellow", and then move on...?
