I love Jim, have met him and know he bleeds black and white.
That said, listening again yesterday to the commentary from Jim on the Leicester game it was very obvious he has little time for Seri. Jamie was constantly saying that Seri was having a good game but Jim rarely acknowledged it. Also, every time Chambers did anything good Jim commented and mainly
commented on things Seri did wrong ignoring most of his good contributions.
I suspect Jim hoped, thought and expected Seri would give us more, I think most of us feel similarly but it still does mean he is a poor player. I wonder if this contributes to Seris lack of popularity.
Seri and Anguissa came with big reputations and a joint price tag of close to £50 million quid. Their performances individually and collectively (as was the case at Man U, especially the 1st 45 when both were beyond hopeless) have been so far below the standard you would expect given either price tag or reputation it's astounding. Facts are we're bottom of the league and a big factor of that is we blew a massive part of a huge transfer outlay on two players who have contributed to that poor performance overall. A couple of top championship players or premiership squad players instead would have offered more at less £££.
I still think, first 4-6 matches, Seri looked to be one of the best players I'd seen in the white shirt. I'm convinced he has the talent and is just under-performing, whether that's because he's unhappy, it's too cold, his confidence is shot or the players around him are just too poor (consider Odoi's hospital passes, for example).
Anguissa IMO is just thick and lazy. He has youth and the raw physical attributes, so could come good. But the manager needs to put a rocket up his arse and he needs to play with a Danny Murphy type captain who will make sure he is in the right place, doing the right thing for 90 mins.
Quote from: Spirit of 2000 on December 11, 2018, 10:56:59 AM
Seri and Anguissa came with big reputations and a joint price tag of close to £50 million quid. Their performances individually and collectively (as was the case at Man U, especially the 1st 45 when both were beyond hopeless) have been so far below the standard you would expect given either price tag or reputation it's astounding. Facts are we're bottom of the league and a big factor of that is we blew a massive part of a huge transfer outlay on two players who have contributed to that poor performance overall. A couple of top championship players or premiership squad players instead would have offered more at less £££.
To some extent I sympathise with this view however you use phrases that are totally over the top like, beyond hopeless.... I would add that whilst £20million is a ridiculous amount of money, it's quite normal in the Premeir League. Clubs like Everton pay £50 or £60 million for one player !
1st half at Old Trafford both were IMO beyond hopeless - as a midfield pairing playing in front of the defence they could not have been less effective & their positional sense and awareness any worse. They weren't alone I know but the price tags will bring attention & expectation. Odoi cost comparitively little and he was awful - but there's a sense of people recognising he's not a premiership player. Seri I've said many times has talent - in a good side who are enjoying dominance in a game of football and playing further forward he would be a decent player - for a side struggling at the bottom of the league needing fighters and some savvy of the premier league and it's demands he's not at all what you want. Does he want to be here? Did he take the FFC option as the only one open to him to get away from Nice? Did he see FFC as a stepping stone? All up for discussion & debate. Will his performances improve as winter takes hold and his infamous painful toe condition worsens?? Doubtful. Is it Tony Khans fault - very probably. Anguissa however lacks so much it's embarrasing that we've spent allegedly close to £30 million for the bloke - no pace, no outstanding technical or passing ability, not exactly that dominant depsite his reasonable size, doesn't score goals, lacks defensive & positional awareness and I will categorically state there's a LOT better than him in the championship for an absolute fraction of the price ... well done Tony K and your stat based scouting brilliance.
Quote from: Spirit of 2000 on December 11, 2018, 11:35:30 AM
1st half at Old Trafford both were IMO beyond hopeless - as a midfield pairing playing in front of the defence they could not have been less effective & their positional sense and awareness any worse. They weren't alone I know but the price tags will bring attention & expectation. Odoi cost comparitively little and he was awful - but there's a sense of people recognising he's not a premiership player. Seri I've said many times has talent - in a good side who are enjoying dominance in a game of football and playing further forward he would be a decent player - for a side struggling at the bottom of the league needing fighters and some savvy of the premier league and it's demands he's not at all what you want. Does he want to be here? Did he take the FFC option as the only one open to him to get away from Nice? Did he see FFC as a stepping stone? All up for discussion & debate. Will his performances improve as winter takes hold and his infamous painful toe condition worsens?? Doubtful. Is it Tony Khans fault - very probably. Anguissa however lacks so much it's embarrasing that we've spent allegedly close to £30 million for the bloke - no pace, no outstanding technical or passing ability, not exactly that dominant depsite his reasonable size, doesn't score goals, lacks defensive & positional awareness and I will categorically state there's a LOT better than him in the championship for an absolute fraction of the price ... well done Tony K and your stat based scouting brilliance.
And you knew how these players would perform before they kicked a ball, hindsight's a wonderful tool in a discussion.
The whole team was awful in that first half and having listened to GJ's commentary when I watched the ninety minutes he aludes to that in terms of disappointment on several occasions.
Quote from: alfie on December 11, 2018, 11:43:21 AM
Quote from: Spirit of 2000 on December 11, 2018, 11:35:30 AM
1st half at Old Trafford both were IMO beyond hopeless - as a midfield pairing playing in front of the defence they could not have been less effective & their positional sense and awareness any worse. They weren't alone I know but the price tags will bring attention & expectation. Odoi cost comparitively little and he was awful - but there's a sense of people recognising he's not a premiership player. Seri I've said many times has talent - in a good side who are enjoying dominance in a game of football and playing further forward he would be a decent player - for a side struggling at the bottom of the league needing fighters and some savvy of the premier league and it's demands he's not at all what you want. Does he want to be here? Did he take the FFC option as the only one open to him to get away from Nice? Did he see FFC as a stepping stone? All up for discussion & debate. Will his performances improve as winter takes hold and his infamous painful toe condition worsens?? Doubtful. Is it Tony Khans fault - very probably. Anguissa however lacks so much it's embarrasing that we've spent allegedly close to £30 million for the bloke - no pace, no outstanding technical or passing ability, not exactly that dominant depsite his reasonable size, doesn't score goals, lacks defensive & positional awareness and I will categorically state there's a LOT better than him in the championship for an absolute fraction of the price ... well done Tony K and your stat based scouting brilliance.
And you knew how these players would perform before they kicked a ball, hindsight's a wonderful tool in a discussion.
No hindsight needed if you consider that you need a central hub to the side that at least knows what to expect from English football. Yes you can take a punt on a pacey winger or dangerous striker from abroad or even as Hangeland showed a commanding centre back in a reasonably physical league that looks like part - even then you're taking a chance. However to bring in 2 players you're expecting to form the engine room of the side from France where the league is not similar in terms of quality or pace/physicality compared to the premier is a gamble too far IMO.
I think Seri is very harshly treated on here. I feel he's the most well rounded midfielder we have: he can tackle, pass and shoot and he has lots of energy. Yes he has to become more consistent but he's been no worse than the other centre midfielders bar Chambers, who has been our most consistent midfielder.
Quote from: Statto on December 11, 2018, 11:09:47 AM
I still think, first 4-6 matches, Seri looked to be one of the best players I'd seen in the white shirt. I'm convinced he has the talent and is just under-performing, whether that's because he's unhappy, it's too cold, his confidence is shot or the players around him are just too poor (consider Odoi's hospital passes, for example).
Anguissa IMO is just thick and lazy. He has youth and the raw physical attributes, so could come good. But the manager needs to put a rocket up his arse and he needs to play with a Danny Murphy type captain who will make sure he is in the right place, doing the right thing for 90 mins.
I totally agree with you. Seri is a good player who seems distracted and has lost his way. Anguissa may well have natural talent but somehow does not seem to have a footballing brain. Rarely have I ever seen a player look so lost on a football pitch. There are glimpses of talent and then - nothing . Very very odd
Quote from: Statto on December 11, 2018, 11:09:47 AM
I still think, first 4-6 matches, Seri looked to be one of the best players I'd seen in the white shirt. I'm convinced he has the talent and is just under-performing, whether that's because he's unhappy, it's too cold, his confidence is shot or the players around him are just too poor (consider Odoi's hospital passes, for example).
Anguissa IMO is just thick and lazy. He has youth and the raw physical attributes, so could come good. But the manager needs to put a rocket up his arse and he needs to play with a Danny Murphy type captain who will make sure he is in the right place, doing the right thing for 90 mins.
Agreed. Seri looked really promising in the first couple of matches. If the rumours about his transfer deal is true they need to sort this out ASAP. I wouldn't be surprised if this is messing with his head. Anguissa is still very young and who knows what may happen with proper coaching. They've both been poor lately but I'm not giving up on them yet.
Zambo is how I imagine a young Yaya Toure may have been.
We'll see or perhaps not.
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on December 11, 2018, 12:47:11 PM
I think Seri is very harshly treated on here. I feel he's the most well rounded midfielder we have: he can tackle, pass and shoot and he has lots of energy. Yes he has to become more consistent but he's been no worse than the other centre midfielders bar Chambers, who has been our most consistent midfielder.
I think with Seri, it's a matter of when is he going to switch off. That is the entire scope of our problem players to me. It's all mental. Seri has these at least one every match. The first kick of the United match he under-hit the pass to Mawson, who was almost caught out, before punting it away. Then the light jog instead of sprinting back on Mata's goal stuck out to me. Anguissa has an overconfidence to dribble out of tight spots, but the problem is he does this in our own defensive third. The two players I feel have overused the mentality of "keep calm", and instead of it showing calmness, it shows a sense of being aloof. Like the following image:
(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/5193/il6JIf.png)
We do have players that have those switched-off moments, but it is how they react to them which is what makes the difference. Seri and Anguissa showed on Saturday that they can't be played together, but I would not be against them being paired up with Chambers or anyone who would keep them in-line such as KMac or Johansen.
Quote from: Matt10 on December 11, 2018, 02:13:55 PM
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on December 11, 2018, 12:47:11 PM
I think Seri is very harshly treated on here. I feel he's the most well rounded midfielder we have: he can tackle, pass and shoot and he has lots of energy. Yes he has to become more consistent but he's been no worse than the other centre midfielders bar Chambers, who has been our most consistent midfielder.
I think with Seri, it's a matter of when is he going to switch off. That is the entire scope of our problem players to me. It's all mental. Seri has these at least one every match. The first kick of the United match he under-hit the pass to Mawson, who was almost caught out, before punting it away. Then the light jog instead of sprinting back on Mata's goal stuck out to me. Anguissa has an overconfidence to dribble out of tight spots, but the problem is he does this in our own defensive third. The two players I feel have overused the mentality of "keep calm", and instead of it showing calmness, it shows a sense of being aloof. Like the following image:
(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/5193/il6JIf.png)
We do have players that have those switched-off moments, but it is how they react to them which is what makes the difference. Seri and Anguissa showed on Saturday that they can't be played together, but I would not be against them being paired up with Chambers or anyone who would keep them in-line such as KMac or Johansen.
Agreed. Those two really bring out the worst in each other. Anguissa in particular is reacting very poorly when he makes mistakes. It's almost like he's so shocked/frustrated by his own mistakes that he completely shuts down and doesn't know what to do next. It has to be a mental thing. Both of them have shown moments of pure class. There's clearly potential there.
Quote from: FulhamStu on December 11, 2018, 11:10:02 AM
Quote from: Spirit of 2000 on December 11, 2018, 10:56:59 AM
Seri and Anguissa came with big reputations and a joint price tag of close to £50 million quid. Their performances individually and collectively (as was the case at Man U, especially the 1st 45 when both were beyond hopeless) have been so far below the standard you would expect given either price tag or reputation it's astounding. Facts are we're bottom of the league and a big factor of that is we blew a massive part of a huge transfer outlay on two players who have contributed to that poor performance overall. A couple of top championship players or premiership squad players instead would have offered more at less £££.
To some extent I sympathise with this view however you use phrases that are totally over the top like, beyond hopeless.... I would add that whilst £20million is a ridiculous amount of money, it's quite normal in the Premeir League. Clubs like Everton pay £50 or £60 million for one player !
At least they got Richarlison for 50 million. We got two disappointments for the same money.
Quote from: Spirit of 2000 on December 11, 2018, 11:35:30 AM
1st half at Old Trafford both were IMO beyond hopeless - as a midfield pairing playing in front of the defence they could not have been less effective & their positional sense and awareness any worse. They weren't alone I know but the price tags will bring attention & expectation. Odoi cost comparitively little and he was awful - but there's a sense of people recognising he's not a premiership player. Seri I've said many times has talent - in a good side who are enjoying dominance in a game of football and playing further forward he would be a decent player - for a side struggling at the bottom of the league needing fighters and some savvy of the premier league and it's demands he's not at all what you want. Does he want to be here? Did he take the FFC option as the only one open to him to get away from Nice? Did he see FFC as a stepping stone? All up for discussion & debate. Will his performances improve as winter takes hold and his infamous painful toe condition worsens?? Doubtful. Is it Tony Khans fault - very probably. Anguissa however lacks so much it's embarrasing that we've spent allegedly close to £30 million for the bloke - no pace, no outstanding technical or passing ability, not exactly that dominant depsite his reasonable size, doesn't score goals, lacks defensive & positional awareness and I will categorically state there's a LOT better than him in the championship for an absolute fraction of the price ... well done Tony K and your stat based scouting brilliance.
Seri might be dissatisfied given the story on Nice - FFC transfer and alleged fee evasion... Agree he was good in first few games and than underperformed. But stats still show he is one of the team best. Could be that stats blinded our recruitment team or FFC just has a bad luck with the guy.
At the end of the day, the club and the manager have not got the luxery or time to indulge players in waiting for them to perform to the standards required. These players are getting paid more than enough to perform.
As each defeat goes by, we are another step closer to the trap door.
If players are not up to it for one reason or another, select players who will be.
That is why this January Window has to be successful in recruiting the right kind of players for the job of fighting for survival.
Quote from: FulhamStu on December 11, 2018, 10:48:26 AM
I love Jim, have met him and know he bleeds black and white.
That said, listening again yesterday to the commentary from Jim on the Leicester game it was very obvious he has little time for Seri. Jamie was constantly saying that Seri was having a good game but Jim rarely acknowledged it. Also, every time Chambers did anything good Jim commented and mainly
commented on things Seri did wrong ignoring most of his good contributions.
I suspect Jim hoped, thought and expected Seri would give us more, I think most of us feel similarly but it still does mean he is a poor player. I wonder if this contributes to Seris lack of popularity.
Perhaps GJ is a racist??
Quote from: HV71 on December 11, 2018, 12:48:11 PM
Quote from: Statto on December 11, 2018, 11:09:47 AM
I still think, first 4-6 matches, Seri looked to be one of the best players I'd seen in the white shirt. I'm convinced he has the talent and is just under-performing, whether that's because he's unhappy, it's too cold, his confidence is shot or the players around him are just too poor (consider Odoi's hospital passes, for example).
Anguissa IMO is just thick and lazy. He has youth and the raw physical attributes, so could come good. But the manager needs to put a rocket up his arse and he needs to play with a Danny Murphy type captain who will make sure he is in the right place, doing the right thing for 90 mins.
I totally agree with you. Seri is a good player who seems distracted and has lost his way. Anguissa may well have natural talent but somehow does not seem to have a footballing brain. Rarely have I ever seen a player look so lost on a football pitch. There are glimpses of talent and then - nothing . Very very odd
I Remember those very words about AK47 "he does not have a football brain" and now people want him in team, so there is hope.
We have Anquissi, Seri, Cairney, McDonald, Johansen and Chambers to choose from for the three midfielders. The manager , as a matter of urgency, mus decide on his best three and then crack the whip to make them play as he wants and to get the best out of them
A new ball winning midfielder would be useful but any new signing has to be better than those already available.
Quote from: KJS on December 11, 2018, 03:01:51 PM
Quote from: FulhamStu on December 11, 2018, 10:48:26 AM
I love Jim, have met him and know he bleeds black and white.
That said, listening again yesterday to the commentary from Jim on the Leicester game it was very obvious he has little time for Seri. Jamie was constantly saying that Seri was having a good game but Jim rarely acknowledged it. Also, every time Chambers did anything good Jim commented and mainly
commented on things Seri did wrong ignoring most of his good contributions.
I suspect Jim hoped, thought and expected Seri would give us more, I think most of us feel similarly but it still does mean he is a poor player. I wonder if this contributes to Seris lack of popularity.
Perhaps GJ is a racist??
?Why?
Quote from: filham on December 11, 2018, 06:58:45 PM
We have Anquissi, Seri, Cairney, McDonald, Johansen and Chambers to choose from for the three midfielders. The manager , as a matter of urgency, mus decide on his best three and then crack the whip to make them play as he wants and to get the best out of them
A new ball winning midfielder would be useful but any new signing has to be better than those already available.
What about De La Torre? Might be worth a look
Quote from: Spirit of 2000 on December 11, 2018, 10:56:59 AM
Seri and Anguissa came with big reputations and a joint price tag of close to £50 million quid. Their performances individually and collectively (as was the case at Man U, especially the 1st 45 when both were beyond hopeless) have been so far below the standard you would expect given either price tag or reputation it's astounding. Facts are we're bottom of the league and a big factor of that is we blew a massive part of a huge transfer outlay on two players who have contributed to that poor performance overall. A couple of top championship players or premiership squad players instead would have offered more at less £££.
Price tags.... pretty certain the players didn't set them. Shouldn't be judged on a price tag.
Quote from: Twig on December 11, 2018, 07:48:13 PM
Quote from: KJS on December 11, 2018, 03:01:51 PM
Quote from: FulhamStu on December 11, 2018, 10:48:26 AM
I love Jim, have met him and know he bleeds black and white.
That said, listening again yesterday to the commentary from Jim on the Leicester game it was very obvious he has little time for Seri. Jamie was constantly saying that Seri was having a good game but Jim rarely acknowledged it. Also, every time Chambers did anything good Jim commented and mainly
commented on things Seri did wrong ignoring most of his good contributions.
I suspect Jim hoped, thought and expected Seri would give us more, I think most of us feel similarly but it still does mean he is a poor player. I wonder if this contributes to Seris lack of popularity.
Perhaps GJ is a racist??
?Why?
Why not after all he praised Chambers (white) and criticized Seri (black) ??
Quote from: KJS on December 11, 2018, 08:11:51 PM
Quote from: Twig on December 11, 2018, 07:48:13 PM
Quote from: KJS on December 11, 2018, 03:01:51 PM
Quote from: FulhamStu on December 11, 2018, 10:48:26 AM
I love Jim, have met him and know he bleeds black and white.
That said, listening again yesterday to the commentary from Jim on the Leicester game it was very obvious he has little time for Seri. Jamie was constantly saying that Seri was having a good game but Jim rarely acknowledged it. Also, every time Chambers did anything good Jim commented and mainly
commented on things Seri did wrong ignoring most of his good contributions.
I suspect Jim hoped, thought and expected Seri would give us more, I think most of us feel similarly but it still does mean he is a poor player. I wonder if this contributes to Seris lack of popularity.
Perhaps GJ is a racist??
?Why?
Why not after all he praised Chambers (white) and criticized Seri (black) ??
This is really silly to suggest it's anything to do with colour of skin.
I suspect he sees Chambers giving 100% and Seri less so.
My points were about the general anti Seri thing which I think has got out of hand plus the fact that Seri is a very good player and we need to get the best out of him which you do not do by being anti Seri.
Quote from: FulhamStu on December 11, 2018, 09:09:13 PM
My points were about the general anti Seri thing which I think has got out of hand plus the fact that Seri is a very good player and we need to get the best out of him which you do not do by being anti Seri.
I disagree. Professional footballers are largely self driven (as most of us are) into giving the best of themselves in the circumstances they are in. They should also be impervious to general criticism of performances other than to try to be better next time and if that involves help with certain issues, e.g. position and organisation, to ensure they understand what the manager requires. Seri is paid a lot of money every day to give his best and that should be enough incentive to deliver. Criticism of something doesn't mean you are anti-it. It just means you are critical of it.
Just watched the full 90 and I thought Jim was a bit restrained generally and seemed to miss a lot of the things he would normally be on top of. I don't think he really criticised Seri who apart from some woeful back tracking didn't seem to play that bad.
