(I've posted this before but it seems not many read it)
Ranieri met with both Shahid Khan and Tony Khan and discussed transfers and the club's recruitment model before he was announced as Fulham boss.
And it was in those meetings that Ranieri showed more willingness to work under the model at the club than his predecessor did.
In January, the recruitment will work in the same way as it did with Jokanovic, where players are measured by their data and then by the traditional scouting methods before they are put to Ranieri.
He will then decide from that list of players who he feels are the right fit for Fulham, with the recruitment department then responsible for the price and signing of the player.
It is similar to a European model where a Sporting Director is responsible for signings, something that Ranieri has worked under before.
Speaking about the recruitment policy at his unveiling, Ranieri said: "I spoke with the chairman about this.
"There are some people that are working (on recruitment) and then they put to me some players.
"They show me the name and after I have to choose who is the right player for us. I am happy with that."
https://www.football.london/fulham-fc/how-fulhams-transfer-policy-work-15438761
Marginally better than Hobson's choice. If Joka chose Seri, I dread to think who was in the discard pile...
If we continue with this list of stats players,meaning players that can make you money we are fucked,we need experienced prem players
If we look at our 100m spent how many are looking good investments? Maddison at Norwich was an obvious real talent, I wonder if he was even considered. This system worries me. :033:
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I think the OP is being naive if he believes the quoted dialogue represents every scenario possible under the Sun, or even a true reflection of what was said between Ranieri and the Khans.
It is what happens in practise that matters as always in professional matters. Ranieri will have his own expectations as will the Khans. I would hope meaningful dialogue has occurred already because if not we are already up the creek without a paddle.
Quote from: Neil D on December 12, 2018, 08:48:59 AM
Marginally better than Hobson's choice. If Joka chose Seri, I dread to think who was in the discard pile...
Well, at least on the face of it Seri looked like an amazing signing in my opinion.
Is this just another entry in an endless list of whining posts about Seri, or do you actually have a point? What players would you have liked to strengthen our possession based midfield trio. My speculation is that Seri was most likely brought in as an upgrade on Johansen, which on paper seemed like a brilliant move (provided we had the funds, which we obviously did).
Quote from: toshes mate on December 12, 2018, 09:01:47 AM
I think the OP is being naive if he believes the quoted dialogue represents every scenario possible under the Sun, or even a true reflection of what was said between Ranieri and the Khans.
It is what happens in practise that matters as always in professional matters. Ranieri will have his own expectations as will the Khans. I would hope meaningful dialogue has occurred already because if not we are already up the creek without a paddle.
Exactly. It is never this simple.
I also believe that this process is not much different from how most clubs work. All clubs use data and all clubs use "traditional" scouting. Of course the exact process and involvement of each element differs between clubs. Also, most clubs don't have managers that do all the work and just pick and choose players. Again, the involvement of managers differ between clubs but all clubs have multiple people heavily involved.
Lastly, apart from maybe a few clubs at the very top, you are always heavily restricted by what players actually wants to join your club. I imagine Fulham's season so far will not have made it easier to attract top players.
Quote from: Neil D on December 12, 2018, 08:48:59 AM
Marginally better than Hobson's choice. If Joka chose Seri, I dread to think who was in the discard pile...
Seri been our best midfielder apart from Chambers, there's a reason Barcelona wanted him.
Quote from: bog on December 12, 2018, 08:59:10 AM
If we look at our 100m spent how many are looking good investments? Maddison at Norwich was an obvious real talent, I wonder if he was even considered. This system worries me. :033:
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In retrospect we should've signed him, but on paper he and Cairney play the same position, so it would've probably meant ditching Cairney or pushing him out wide.
Of course you are free to believe or disbelieve and if it doesn't fit your preconceived ideas then you will continue to disbelieve
I wonder if we are processing data in a different way to other clubs. In view of the failure of our summer signings an independent review of our stats based decisions is needed.
However it is good to know that the last word is with Ranieri
Im used to being ignored but was surprised no one felt the need to comment on this on another thread.
Hes used to the process and being given players he initally is not keen on
I found this part of an article on Leicesters Championship season interesting given everyone wants the manager to have his own players...
"Robert Huth's loan deal from Stoke City had been turned into a permanent move, and Christian Fuchs and Shinji Okazaki had joined from Schalke and Mainz respectively. Steve Walsh, the club's joint assistant manager and head of recruitment, was busy chasing another target that was far from straightforward but would turn into one of the best Premier League signings of the summer.
N'Golo Kanté was the player's name, and Ranieri – as he would later admit – did not know much about him. Ranieri was far from alone in that respect – plenty of other Premier League managers have since questioned how he slipped under their radar – but Walsh and his recruitment team had done their homework. David Mills, Leicester's senior scouting coordinator, had been to see Kanté play for Caen, and clips and statistics were put together to highlight the midfielder's talent.
Ranieri, however, still needed convincing about the player's physique. A few months down the line, on the back of some superb performances from the Frenchman, Ranieri recalled how Walsh would constantly badger him during pre-season, saying: "Kanté, Kanté, Kanté!" In the end Ranieri was won over, Leicester handed over £5.6m and the rest is history. High quality on the pitch and low maintenance off it, Kanté drives a Mini and lives a simple life that involves tackling and smiling; occasionally both at the same time. He has been a revelation and everybody at Leicester loves him"
Quote from: MJG on December 12, 2018, 12:51:47 PM
Im used to being ignored but was surprised no one felt the need to comment on this on another thread.
Hes used to the process and being given players he initally is not keen on
I found this part of an article on Leicesters Championship season interesting given everyone wants the manager to have his own players...
"Robert Huth's loan deal from Stoke City had been turned into a permanent move, and Christian Fuchs and Shinji Okazaki had joined from Schalke and Mainz respectively. Steve Walsh, the club's joint assistant manager and head of recruitment, was busy chasing another target that was far from straightforward but would turn into one of the best Premier League signings of the summer.
N'Golo Kanté was the player's name, and Ranieri – as he would later admit – did not know much about him. Ranieri was far from alone in that respect – plenty of other Premier League managers have since questioned how he slipped under their radar – but Walsh and his recruitment team had done their homework. David Mills, Leicester's senior scouting coordinator, had been to see Kanté play for Caen, and clips and statistics were put together to highlight the midfielder's talent.
Ranieri, however, still needed convincing about the player's physique. A few months down the line, on the back of some superb performances from the Frenchman, Ranieri recalled how Walsh would constantly badger him during pre-season, saying: "Kanté, Kanté, Kanté!" In the end Ranieri was won over, Leicester handed over £5.6m and the rest is history. High quality on the pitch and low maintenance off it, Kanté drives a Mini and lives a simple life that involves tackling and smiling; occasionally both at the same time. He has been a revelation and everybody at Leicester loves him"
This is an interesting bit of reading indeed. Shows that the manager doesn't necessarily knows best (which should be obvious, but isn't apparently). It's a complicated process to acquire the right players when you have to consider price, availability, willingness to join, likeliness to adapt to a new team (and potentially new league and country), potential sell on value, risk of upsetting the dressing room because of high wages etc.
With that said, it is obviously an advantage if the manager wants a player since that would indicate that he alreade knows exactly why he wants that specific player. But, there could of course be a very similar option that the manager doesn't know at all. This other option may be preferable because of being cheaper, younger, available, even more skilled or for any number of other reasons.
Quote from: MJG on December 12, 2018, 12:51:47 PM
Walsh would constantly badger him during pre-season, saying: "Kanté, Kanté, Kanté!" In the end Ranieri was won over, Leicester handed over £5.6m and the rest is history.
All I will say is from this part, it still sounds very much to me like Ranieri had the final say at Leicester
How will our chairman's son feel if he has to "constantly badger" Ranieri, begging him to approve a signing?
I can't see that happening somehow.
At our place I think what would happen is Ranieri would turn up at Mostpur park and say, who's that little bloke I don't recognise? Then Khan will say, oh that's some French player who had really great stats so i just spent £6m on him
To add to the above Walsh was (is) a football man through and through with wide experience in the game
Maybe the process should be inverted with the manager drawing up a shortlist of players suited to his preferred playing style and then the Club decides who of them they can afford / is available etc. That way Ranieri won't have to make silk purses out of sows' ears or, more likely given our needs, sows' ears of out of silk purses.
the propcess is fatally flawed and shambolic. it is bound to go wrong if the team leading it are inexperienced and proved to have a track record of getting it wrong. Ranieri may be happy to accept the ridiculous sytem as would I at the salaries these people get but there is no way we will be charging up the table the way we buy players.
I wish i had as much money as Mr khan had to waste. If I were him I would get somebody experienced that knew what they were doing to run transfers and make sure the manager was the leader of defining what and who we need.
Wouldn't it be a dam sight easier alround to just remove TK once and for all, and let him go play on his computer somewhere else.
Quote from: nose on December 12, 2018, 04:30:07 PM
the propcess is fatally flawed and shambolic. it is bound to go wrong if the team leading it are inexperienced and proved to have a track record of getting it wrong. Ranieri may be happy to accept the ridiculous sytem as would I at the salaries these people get but there is no way we will be charging up the table the way we buy players.
I wish i had as much money as Mr khan had to waste. If I were him I would get somebody experienced that knew what they were doing to run transfers and make sure the manager was the leader of defining what and who we need.
No manager in the world has the time or scouting acumen to assess every relevant league in the world in a real-time basis and make determinations on availability and value. I don't know why people are so weird about Fulham's system. There seemed to be a lot of excitement this summer when we signed Seri, Mitrovic and Mawson, among others, and neither you nor I have any idea about the players Slav "rejected" when they were presented. Maybe they were great.
My biggest issue with this summer was the dire need to sign a high-quality athletic 6 to replace McDonald, and to this point, Anguissa has been a whiff. If we're to stay up, we need a re-do on that purchase in January. Anguissa is not going to be ready for this level in time, and he and Seri together has been terrible.
Add in a better CB to replace Odoi, and a quality winger who has the best combined traits of Schurrle + Kamara, and I think we can just about manage to stay in the division.
(Edit: My bigger issue with Anguissa is ... our scouts also watched him and approved him. That really concerns me. I spent five minutes watching YouTube clips after he was announced and was underwhelmed, and if the club didn't understand that he couldn't adapt to being the lone dedicated D-Mid instead of being paired with another one, that's an additional issue)
Quote from: Denver Fulham on December 12, 2018, 05:11:08 PM
Quote from: nose on December 12, 2018, 04:30:07 PM
the propcess is fatally flawed and shambolic. it is bound to go wrong if the team leading it are inexperienced and proved to have a track record of getting it wrong. Ranieri may be happy to accept the ridiculous sytem as would I at the salaries these people get but there is no way we will be charging up the table the way we buy players.
I wish i had as much money as Mr khan had to waste. If I were him I would get somebody experienced that knew what they were doing to run transfers and make sure the manager was the leader of defining what and who we need.
No manager in the world has the time or scouting acumen to assess every relevant league in the world in a real-time basis and make determinations on availability and value. I don't know why people are so weird about Fulham's system. There seemed to be a lot of excitement this summer when we signed Seri, Mitrovic and Mawson, among others, and neither you nor I have any idea about the players Slav "rejected" when they were presented. Maybe they were great.
My biggest issue with this summer was the dire need to sign a high-quality athletic 6 to replace McDonald, and to this point, Anguissa has been a whiff. If we're to stay up, we need a re-do on that purchase in January. Anguissa is not going to be ready for this level in time, and he and Seri together has been terrible.
Add in a better CB to replace Odoi, and a quality winger who has the best combined traits of Schurrle + Kamara, and I think we can just about manage to stay in the division.
(Edit: My bigger issue with Anguissa is ... our scouts also watched him and approved him. That really concerns me. I spent five minutes watching YouTube clips after he was announced and was underwhelmed, and if the club didn't understand that he couldn't adapt to being the lone dedicated D-Mid instead of being paired with another one, that's an additional issue)
Our scouts would have watched full game highlights of him, Not just a couple of youtube clips which due to copyright restrictions will not tell you much about a player these days.
If you have twitter I can show you a vid of Anguissa I was sent when we signed him that made him look impressive. (Not on YT)
Quote from: @jolslover on December 12, 2018, 08:31:14 PM
Quote from: Denver Fulham on December 12, 2018, 05:11:08 PM
Quote from: nose on December 12, 2018, 04:30:07 PM
the propcess is fatally flawed and shambolic. it is bound to go wrong if the team leading it are inexperienced and proved to have a track record of getting it wrong. Ranieri may be happy to accept the ridiculous sytem as would I at the salaries these people get but there is no way we will be charging up the table the way we buy players.
I wish i had as much money as Mr khan had to waste. If I were him I would get somebody experienced that knew what they were doing to run transfers and make sure the manager was the leader of defining what and who we need.
No manager in the world has the time or scouting acumen to assess every relevant league in the world in a real-time basis and make determinations on availability and value. I don't know why people are so weird about Fulham's system. There seemed to be a lot of excitement this summer when we signed Seri, Mitrovic and Mawson, among others, and neither you nor I have any idea about the players Slav "rejected" when they were presented. Maybe they were great.
My biggest issue with this summer was the dire need to sign a high-quality athletic 6 to replace McDonald, and to this point, Anguissa has been a whiff. If we're to stay up, we need a re-do on that purchase in January. Anguissa is not going to be ready for this level in time, and he and Seri together has been terrible.
Add in a better CB to replace Odoi, and a quality winger who has the best combined traits of Schurrle + Kamara, and I think we can just about manage to stay in the division.
(Edit: My bigger issue with Anguissa is ... our scouts also watched him and approved him. That really concerns me. I spent five minutes watching YouTube clips after he was announced and was underwhelmed, and if the club didn't understand that he couldn't adapt to being the lone dedicated D-Mid instead of being paired with another one, that's an additional issue)
Our scouts would have watched full game highlights of him, Not just a couple of youtube clips which due to copyright restrictions will not tell you much about a player these days.
If you have twitter I can show you a vid of Anguissa I was sent when we signed him that made him look impressive. (Not on YT)
Oh, I don't doubt they watched significant video of him (if they didn't manage to see him in person the season before). I question whether our scouts are good enough at their job. If you have advanced enough "Stats," you should be able to determine personnel fit required in addition to individual performance. But if you don't and are just doing a screen of sorts to identify targets, the scouts *absolutely* should be able to provide the qualitative feedback required to make a decision.
Even if Anguissa is great and tremendous value (very much in question atm), how could he possibly have been determined to be a fit in Jokanovic's system playing next to Seri instead of a second dedicated defensive midfielder? He clearly wasn't ready for that level of defensive responsibility in a better league, and i also question whether his passing range is good enough for what that position under Joka required.
It seems much more of a fit whiff than a "does he suck??" whiff, and that's on the scouts who watched him play. And this extends to all the other complains people have on here. Trashing Tony's Computer may be sport on this board, but highly-paid humans are also watching film/in person of these players before they're purchased. You can't be upset with one and not the other when "both boxes" (including the manager) need to be checked.
We don't really know much if anything about the process by which these players were targeted and acquired.
They must have been thought of as up to the job by some - and surely experienced football people must be involved somewhere, before khan signs such big cheques.
That there wasn't much time to sign players must be important - who was available of suitable quality. Anguissa was seen apparently - portrayed to us as such - as a young player of enormous potential. The thing is, he and Seri have had to prove their quality in the brutal atmosphere of the Prem, with no previous experience of football at such a level of pace and strength apparently,
and not in the security of a top team, with very experienced players all around them, but for Fulham, new to the Prem, and with other inexperienced players around them.
But it is what it is - now we just have to get on with it. We aren't yet adrift at all, and we should trust CR to organise and get the best of the players at his disposal - who are quality players, along with such as Sess, Mitro, Cairney and Kmac - who will always give 100 % for Fulham, and also have quality.
There is one absolutely brilliant thing about computer databases (shared with footie simulations) and that is you can use them 24/7 to find the perfect fit for your team's missing 'star' (singular or plural) and you do not have to be a nerd to use them. I would imagine all our scouts, full, part-time and special job, are able to watch players live as necessary from selections made from the moment a 'star' was found to be missing on the training ground and in matchday analysis. Most of us can spot there is a defect even if we are not quite sure who is defective or how the defect is occurring, but football people have the sixth sense required, don't they? And so the moment we say we are looking for a centre back the guys are already familier with the short list of potentials, the scouting reports have been collated, and the top picks sorted with the coaches.
No, it isn't rocket science and it should work very much more often than it doesn't work.
