First of all, they were all piss-poor. Kebano, although skillful in some way, isn't good enough for premier league and he just can't miss one on one situations. Vietto showed moments of brilliance in his first three-four games for us, but has generally been dire all season. Given that and his really good reputation, I think he has major confidence issues and that that is the reason why he has been one of our poorest(maybe even poorest) players this season. Ayite looked to me like he was tired, and I think he still isn't up to full fitness, as he looked a lot faster last season. All in all, I would get rid of Kebano and wait a little bit more for Vietto and Ayite. Thoughts?
Quote from: bornafulhamfan on January 06, 2019, 11:20:36 PM
First of all, they were all piss-poor. Kebano, although skillful in some way, isn't good enough for premier league and he just can't miss one on one situations. Vietto showed moments of brilliance in his first three-four games for us, but has generally been dire all season. Given that and his really good reputation, I think he has major confidence issues and that that is the reason why he has been one of our poorest(maybe even poorest) players this season. Ayite looked to me like he was tired, and I think he still isn't up to full fitness, as he looked a lot faster last season. All in all, I would get rid of Kebano and wait a little bit more for Vietto and Ayite. Thoughts?
I'd send back Vietto to free up wages and a loan spot.
Keep the other two as we will need them if we go down.
I think we have to keep one eye on the Championship next season. Not saying we are destined to go down or "giving up" but it would be reckless not plan for every eventuality.
I do not think Kebano has improved since he has arrived. He offered something last season off the bench and was a very good "twist" option when we needed something a bit different to unlock a defence. He was always a lively sub with quick feet who would often shoot on sight and cause problems. So it boils down to weighing up:
1. The fact he has not improved much as a player since being here
2. Potential re-sale value given we spent nearly £5m I think (?)
3. His impact on the dressing room as he appears to be well liked and brings an element of humour backstage
4. Ability to offer us something different off the bench in the Championship next year (if needed!)
I actually think weighing up all those points, I would keep him if the salary was right.
I feel Ayite offers us good balance and given his advancing age he is unlikely to recoup much of a transfer fee either. So, I would also keep him for experience and squad depth if the salary was right.
Vietto.. I would probably send him back to his club. There are glimpses there of a good player but a Premiership relegation fight is not the place for him at this stage of his career. This is exacerbated by his physique which means he can drift out of games and be knocked easily off the ball.
So ironically, Vietto probably has the most potential and could be the best footballer... but for our current situation he is the one I would let go.
Quote from: JoelH5 on January 06, 2019, 11:24:16 PM
Quote from: bornafulhamfan on January 06, 2019, 11:20:36 PM
First of all, they were all piss-poor. Kebano, although skillful in some way, isn't good enough for premier league and he just can't miss one on one situations. Vietto showed moments of brilliance in his first three-four games for us, but has generally been dire all season. Given that and his really good reputation, I think he has major confidence issues and that that is the reason why he has been one of our poorest(maybe even poorest) players this season. Ayite looked to me like he was tired, and I think he still isn't up to full fitness, as he looked a lot faster last season. All in all, I would get rid of Kebano and wait a little bit more for Vietto and Ayite. Thoughts?
I'd send back Vietto to free up wages and a loan spot.
Keep the other two as we will need them if we go down.
The only players we can definately afford our those we will keep next season, we should look for some good attacking players that can win the Championship as back up for Mitro and Sess this year. I doubt Vietto, Kebano and Atyie are good enough to get us promoted again. I think the best way to stay up is to buy a few Championship players to improve bench, buy Cahill and loan one more true EPL player. Although 90% of staying up will be improving the players we already have.
Keep both Kebano and Ayite, but return Vietto for those reasons already stated.
Veitto was dire on Sunday.
You can understand when someone is off form, but he put little effort in and shyed 50/50's, although he was not the only one to do that.
Kebano has hardly been given any game time this season so how can we judge if he can step up? He missed a one on one - do did Sess in the game before. even Jimmy Greaves missed a few. Now it is all about opinions. I was a big fan of Slav and his departure still rankles - but I never agreed with him prioritising Ayite or Piazon over him. He will not make things happen every game - but he does make things happen. I thought he was the only forward the other day that offered any offensive threat - he also made the goal in in a way that eg Schurlle never could.
I can see the argument that like Kamara he is better as an impact player but, particularly given the impacts he has made, I don't think he has been given enough starts to work out whether he can be more than an impact player. I would certainly play him ahead of the hugely disappointing Schurrle
Keeping/returning/ selling...
All 3 of them don't have a fulham contract that goes into next season so far.
Quote from: f bloke on January 10, 2019, 05:21:07 PM
Kebano has hardly been given any game time this season so how can we judge if he can step up? He missed a one on one - do did Sess in the game before. even Jimmy Greaves missed a few. Now it is all about opinions. I was a big fan of Slav and his departure still rankles - but I never agreed with him prioritising Ayite or Piazon over him. He will not make things happen every game - but he does make things happen. I thought he was the only forward the other day that offered any offensive threat - he also made the goal in in a way that eg Schurlle never could.
I can see the argument that like Kamara he is better as an impact player but, particularly given the impacts he has made, I don't think he has been given enough starts to work out whether he can be more than an impact player. I would certainly play him ahead of the hugely disappointing Schurrle
Totally agree - in fact his pitch time in the last 6 months (including the summer I know) has been extremely limited. And every player can miss a chance .. and nearly all do at some time.
Quote from: f bloke on January 10, 2019, 05:21:07 PM
Kebano has hardly been given any game time this season so how can we judge if he can step up? He missed a one on one - do did Sess in the game before. even Jimmy Greaves missed a few. Now it is all about opinions. I was a big fan of Slav and his departure still rankles - but I never agreed with him prioritising Ayite or Piazon over him. He will not make things happen every game - but he does make things happen. I thought he was the only forward the other day that offered any offensive threat - he also made the goal in in a way that eg Schurlle never could.
I can see the argument that like Kamara he is better as an impact player but, particularly given the impacts he has made, I don't think he has been given enough starts to work out whether he can be more than an impact player. I would certainly play him ahead of the hugely disappointing Schurrle
The Schurrle who is our second in goal scoring? Right when we need goals the most right now. Riiiight.
Why does praising one player have to be followed by discrediting another? Just praise the player you're talking about without downplaying another.
I personally feel that Kebano did well, but his decision making, at times, was a bit off the mark. The 1v1 did not miss by much, however it was a bad one. It was nervy, similar to AK's against West Ham. It was a key moment for him, and for Ranieri I assume, as we needed
someone to show they can finish. Regardless what would have happened after that, Kebano would've passed the test. I like Kebano's trickery though, but I also get tired of him constantly slowing things down, especially when we have men in the box. Our players have to restart their runs and angles to make sure they aren't offsides as a result.
Regarding the other players in Ayite and Vietto, I feel they were mixed up, and should have been swapped. Vietto is stronger with the sidelines and cutting outside to send in crosses, while Ayite has shown for us in the past that he can handle being the striker. He's calm on the ball, and was a big part of our attacks, but couldn't find the back of the net. It was his contested header though that allowed Odoi to volley home our goal. You could see Ayite holding his head in pain as he shuffled over to celebrate.
Can't help but hope they get some minutes to prove Ranieri wrong. If they achieve that, it could really benefit us for some much added depth.
My understanding is three over-23 outfield players and one over-23 goalkeeper can play Premier League 2 (PL2) in the every week. Why aren't these players (Kebano, Vietto and Ayite) playing in PL2 for practice when they don't make the bench, it seems to have benefited Cisse?
Fulham PL2 is playing Manchester United PL2 today, that seems a great game to play anyone that will not be in the Burnley game squad (e.g. Fabri and Vietto) or coming back from injury (e.g. McDonald and Anguissa).
Quote from: Matt10 on January 11, 2019, 01:31:58 AM
Quote from: f bloke on January 10, 2019, 05:21:07 PM
Kebano has hardly been given any game time this season so how can we judge if he can step up? He missed a one on one - do did Sess in the game before. even Jimmy Greaves missed a few. Now it is all about opinions. I was a big fan of Slav and his departure still rankles - but I never agreed with him prioritising Ayite or Piazon over him. He will not make things happen every game - but he does make things happen. I thought he was the only forward the other day that offered any offensive threat - he also made the goal in in a way that eg Schurlle never could.
I can see the argument that like Kamara he is better as an impact player but, particularly given the impacts he has made, I don't think he has been given enough starts to work out whether he can be more than an impact player. I would certainly play him ahead of the hugely disappointing Schurrle
The Schurrle who is our second in goal scoring? Right when we need goals the most right now. Riiiight.
Why does praising one player have to be followed by discrediting another? Just praise the player you're talking about without downplaying another.
I personally feel that Kebano did well, but his decision making, at times, was a bit off the mark. The 1v1 did not miss by much, however it was a bad one. It was nervy, similar to AK's against West Ham. It was a key moment for him, and for Ranieri I assume, as we needed someone to show they can finish. Regardless what would have happened after that, Kebano would've passed the test. I like Kebano's trickery though, but I also get tired of him constantly slowing things down, especially when we have men in the box. Our players have to restart their runs and angles to make sure they aren't offsides as a result.
Regarding the other players in Ayite and Vietto, I feel they were mixed up, and should have been swapped. Vietto is stronger with the sidelines and cutting outside to send in crosses, while Ayite has shown for us in the past that he can handle being the striker. He's calm on the ball, and was a big part of our attacks, but couldn't find the back of the net. It was his contested header though that allowed Odoi to volley home our goal. You could see Ayite holding his head in pain as he shuffled over to celebrate.
Can't help but hope they get some minutes to prove Ranieri wrong. If they achieve that, it could really benefit us for some much added depth.
Quote from: Matt10 on January 11, 2019, 01:31:58 AM
Quote from: f bloke on January 10, 2019, 05:21:07 PM
Kebano has hardly been given any game time this season so how can we judge if he can step up? He missed a one on one - do did Sess in the game before. even Jimmy Greaves missed a few. Now it is all about opinions. I was a big fan of Slav and his departure still rankles - but I never agreed with him prioritising Ayite or Piazon over him. He will not make things happen every game - but he does make things happen. I thought he was the only forward the other day that offered any offensive threat - he also made the goal in in a way that eg Schurlle never could.
I can see the argument that like Kamara he is better as an impact player but, particularly given the impacts he has made, I don't think he has been given enough starts to work out whether he can be more than an impact player. I would certainly play him ahead of the hugely disappointing Schurrle
The Schurrle who is our second in goal scoring? Right when we need goals the most right now. Riiiight.
Why does praising one player have to be followed by discrediting another? Just praise the player you're talking about without downplaying another.
I personally feel that Kebano did well, but his decision making, at times, was a bit off the mark. The 1v1 did not miss by much, however it was a bad one. It was nervy, similar to AK's against West Ham. It was a key moment for him, and for Ranieri I assume, as we needed someone to show they can finish. Regardless what would have happened after that, Kebano would've passed the test. I like Kebano's trickery though, but I also get tired of him constantly slowing things down, especially when we have men in the box. Our players have to restart their runs and angles to make sure they aren't offsides as a result.
Regarding the other players in Ayite and Vietto, I feel they were mixed up, and should have been swapped. Vietto is stronger with the sidelines and cutting outside to send in crosses, while Ayite has shown for us in the past that he can handle being the striker. He's calm on the ball, and was a big part of our attacks, but couldn't find the back of the net. It was his contested header though that allowed Odoi to volley home our goal. You could see Ayite holding his head in pain as he shuffled over to celebrate.
Can't help but hope they get some minutes to prove Ranieri wrong. If they achieve that, it could really benefit us for some much added depth.
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The original post asked whether Kebano, Ayite and Vietto should be shipped out. In that context, expressing a view, that not only would I not ship him out but that I would start him ahead of another regular starter is, in my opinion, not an unreasonable view to express.
As far as Schurrle is concerned, yes his goals have been important but he is one of the major reasons why we have been so structurally unbalanced. I am struggling to think of any regular starter for us at this level that has been so weak in possession, he gets dispossessed or gives the ball away cheaply on an infuriatingly regular basis. He also has no obvious talent on the ball particularly when compared to Ayite, Kebano and Kamara - so not really suited to the Slav system. He also provides very little defensive cover full stop but particularly when compared to the other three - so not really suited to the CR system.
Do I think Kebano is at the level of a Steed, LBM or a Dempsey? No - but I would play him ahead of others in the current squad who have been preferred to him
Of the 3 of them I think only Kebano has any potential with us, but probably only as a sub.
He's got skills that the others haven't and can provide that touch of magic, if only his concentration
and composure could be 'cured'
I can't see anything in Ayite or Vietto, certainly neither are 1st team players especially now when
we need more 'crunchers' from the front and midfield.
Only Mitro is providing that apart from DM's Chambers, KMac and Johansen
Keep Kebano and Ayite, if we go down then they're proven Championship players and if we stay up then sell them for a top up to the transfer budget. Vietto has been underwhelming but can't help but think it's a confidence thing. Would be interesting to see how he does going forward after scoring a few goals, but feel being the sole striker in a 4-3-3 massively hinders him and doesn't play to his strengths.
I cannot find fault with Kebano and Ayite as they are solid performers who have a done a job for us in the past. However, they would have both expected reduced opportunity from promotion and recruitment, and clearly that has been what has happened. I'd also expect a manager to stick with 'known' quality when selecting a team unless an outsider has shown true promise during training, but this season has been so abject and negative it is hard to think some of our fringe players could actually be inspired to see themselves doing well on match days. Not a fan of Vietto but then the same issues apply as much to him as they do for the other two. I get the feel that manager and coaches have to be a lot more hard working, inspirational and energetic when it comes to training and then that might just transfer onto the pitch on matchdays.
Tough times.
Both Kebano and Ayite were bit part players in our 23 game unbeaten run last season.
If I was building a club I'd listen to offers for all three.
Get rid of Kebano and Ayite, these pair were not good enough in the Championship never mind the premiership, and as for Vietto i would keep longer, this guy has the pedigree it just needs Fulham to get him going.
