I don't think TC is captain caliber.
Many on here seem to think it should be Mawson but he is injured. Plus, does anyone know that he is captain material other than he is English and a defender?
Mitro has worn the armband this year but I don't think strikers tend to make good captains. Plus, I think you need a captain that can talk to the ref and Mitro tends to get in their ear when he doesn't get the calls. FWIW, I love Mitro.
Rico's English is lacking. Odoi? I don't know. Chambers is a loanee. Christie I don't think so. Bryan is young as is Sess. Schurrle doesn't seem to have the right mentality. Seri doesn't seem forceful enough. I think KMac is the real leader on the field but he isn't playing.
So I vote for Tim Ream.
i don't even think Tim Ream should be in the starting 11.
I say Tom Cairney. Other than that...whomever the team votes as captain should be captain.
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on January 07, 2019, 03:16:27 AM
i don't even think Tim Ream should be in the starting 11.
I say Tom Cairney. Other than that...whomever the team votes as captain should be captain.
Emphasis on the team, not the fans. We're not playing with them, passing the ball to 'em. Why do we care so much? The team is all that matters.
Hilda.
Odoi.
Calm, intellectual, and has shown fighting spirit to get where he is. Also seems to be a regular now.
Mitrovic with Mawson VC.
I think if we are to keep Mitrovic, we will likely need to make him captain though...
(Similar to when we made Cairney captain..)
A.B.C
A.B.C
A.B.C
A.B.C
Anyone but Cairney.
Quote from: Matt10 on January 07, 2019, 03:42:09 AM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on January 07, 2019, 03:16:27 AM
i don't even think Tim Ream should be in the starting 11.
I say Tom Cairney. Other than that...whomever the team votes as captain should be captain.
Emphasis on the team, not the fans. We're not playing with them, passing the ball to 'em. Why do we care so much? The team is all that matters.
Yes, the team matters, but there isn't a settled team yet, and amongst those who get regular selection there isn't anyone, other than perhaps Odoi who fulfills whatever is required of him, who is a stand ouy performer for this outfit. I don't see this team pulling itself together anytime soon unless somebody with authority starts really laying into all of them big time, locking them all in a small room, and telling them they ain't coming out until they come up with a workable solution to their ills.
Quote from: FulhamKC on January 07, 2019, 03:04:38 AM
I don't think strikers tend to make good captains.
Can't imagine anyone else being Watfords captain than Troy Deeney and he's a striker.
Quote from: toshes mate on January 07, 2019, 08:41:17 AM
Quote from: Matt10 on January 07, 2019, 03:42:09 AM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on January 07, 2019, 03:16:27 AM
i don't even think Tim Ream should be in the starting 11.
I say Tom Cairney. Other than that...whomever the team votes as captain should be captain.
Emphasis on the team, not the fans. We're not playing with them, passing the ball to 'em. Why do we care so much? The team is all that matters.
Yes, the team matters, but there isn't a settled team yet, and amongst those who get regular selection there isn't anyone, other than perhaps Odoi who fulfills whatever is required of him, who is a stand ouy performer for this outfit. I don't see this team pulling itself together anytime soon unless somebody with authority starts really laying into all of them big time, locking them all in a small room, and telling them they ain't coming out until they come up with a workable solution to their ills.
Good post- and this is exactly what is needed. Part of the problem, which wasn't the case last year, is the absence of strong positive characters who are first team regulars. The obvious ones are McDonald and Ream who could command respect not only as individuals but also because they were integral to our success on the pitch. Even our quiet captain was a regular and extremely effective as a player. Ream as you pointed out spoke out about the divisions in the dressing room but sadly , given the season he is having , probably doesn't cut much in the eyes of the new members of the squad. We will probably never know what the issues are - but something is sadly wrong. Despite his shortcomings- thank god for Odoi
It definitely cannot be Tom Cairney, he has proved totally inadequate, and nothing like a Leader.
However, we have very very few strong Characters, one of the many reasons why we are struggling, Stats obviously don't account for a players character.
If Mawson was fit I would choose him, but since he has picked up an injury, in the absence of any other candidate apart from Odoi maybe, I would definitely go for Mitro. There just does not appear to be anyone else. Hence the reason why we play like pussy cats most of the time.
It's just one of the symptoms.
Does anyone seriously think that changing the captain will make any appreciable difference right now? It didn't make much difference when TC was out injured. it really is shifting deck chairs on the Titanic. I go along with the Australian cricket approach where you pick the team first and then the captain. Odoi should not be made captain since, for all his other qualities, he makes way too many goal conceding mistakes to be seen as a regular first team starter going forward.
I have never understood the obsession with captaincy in this country. It is not considered nearly so important elsewhere - see above re Australian cricket team. I suspect it may be a throwback to the old class system, gentlemen and players, natural born leaders, officer class material etc etc. Even in cricket, its importance is overstated - the best cricket captains have been the captains of the best teams - which usually mean the captain of the team with the best bowlers. People cite Mike Brearley but he gets a level of credit which was wholly disproportionate to his contribution. He got lucky in having a hugely pi**ed off Botham with a point to prove and a Bob Willis who had one of his occasional inspired bowling spells. If I were either of them I would be very hacked off with the amount of credit that Brearley gets for their efforts.
Martin Johnston is the one example I can think of where the captain made an appreciable difference - best illustrated by the grand slam losing games where he was unavailable - but were those games lost due to his absence as a player or as a captain? He himself said that team was blessed with a strong leadership group. It was Dallaglio who was the noisy one in the English dressing room and Keith Wood the noisy one in the Lions dressing room. Johnston had a real presence and a sense of authority about him but he was no extrovert. Would he have been as successful without the likes of Dallaglio, Back, Dawson,Greenwood, Lewsey in the same team?
I think it is the latter point that is the more important - does the squad have a strong sense of group, does it have a strong bond and team dynamic and a collective buy in to the game plan and strategy. Part of this is getting the right balance of personalities as well as complementary skill sets - a team of 11 John Terrys would be just as dysfunctional as a team of 11 Tom Cairneys. This is something that the stats based approach falls down on - it doesn't take into account personality type let alone character. TC shouldn't be criticised for not having a similar personality type to Terry Butcher or Stuart Pearce or John Terry - he has the personality type he has - but he did have the skill set to make him the fulcrum of the Slav side. Was that sufficient to make him captain? For my part - I don't really care particularly if he has 2 or 3 more vocal characters in the squad and another half a dozen with real inner steel. His personality type was not an issue last season.
I read somewhere that Alfie Mawson on arriving at the club commented that the dressing room was made up of good blokes but was unusually quiet. That is not the fault of the captain since he has no say in the make of the squad. I think building a squad which is greater than the sum of its parts requires alchemy - a blending of complementary skill sets and personality types all buying into a clear vision and clear style of play. One player's leadership skills cannot do this alone and, certainly in football, unless a particular player was considered to have a negative affect on the team dynamic, I really do not believe that making player X rather than player Y as captain will make any appreciable difference in circumstances where the squad remains unaltered.
Mitrovic. He really cares about how we do and even if he's not having a great game he sets a good example by running himself into the ground. Cairney could learn a lot from Mitro, who is an equally technically proficient player but works hard too.
If Cairney were to work harder he could be an excellent player.
Nothing worse than a quiet dressing room, a sign of a poor team spirit.
No class system here, the last thing Fulham need is a Gentleman as Captain, we want a Warrior, someone who has that competitive edge. Like Bryan Robson, Billy Bonds, Alan Mullery. Terry Butcher, Emlyn Hughes, Scott Parker to name but a few.
It's not so much a question of will the Captain make enough difference. Our poor Captaincy is one of many reasons, but it's still one of them. It's a symptom, and every little bit helps. Get the basics right and more will follow. So pick the current best man for the job, Mitro.
Quote from: f bloke on January 07, 2019, 10:47:16 AM
Does anyone seriously think that changing the captain will make any appreciable difference right now? It didn't make much difference when TC was out injured. it really is shifting deck chairs on the Titanic. I go along with the Australian cricket approach where you pick the team first and then the captain. Odoi should not be made captain since, for all his other qualities, he makes way too many goal conceding mistakes to be seen as a regular first team starter going forward.
I have never understood the obsession with captaincy in this country. It is not considered nearly so important elsewhere - see above re Australian cricket team. I suspect it may be a throwback to the old class system, gentlemen and players, natural born leaders, officer class material etc etc. Even in cricket, its importance is overstated - the best cricket captains have been the captains of the best teams - which usually mean the captain of the team with the best bowlers. People cite Mike Brearley but he gets a level of credit which was wholly disproportionate to his contribution. He got lucky in having a hugely pi**ed off Botham with a point to prove and a Bob Willis who had one of his occasional inspired bowling spells. If I were either of them I would be very hacked off with the amount of credit that Brearley gets for their efforts.
Martin Johnston is the one example I can think of where the captain made an appreciable difference - best illustrated by the grand slam losing games where he was unavailable - but were those games lost due to his absence as a player or as a captain? He himself said that team was blessed with a strong leadership group. It was Dallaglio who was the noisy one in the English dressing room and Keith Wood the noisy one in the Lions dressing room. Johnston had a real presence and a sense of authority about him but he was no extrovert. Would he have been as successful without the likes of Dallaglio, Back, Dawson,Greenwood, Lewsey in the same team?
I think it is the latter point that is the more important - does the squad have a strong sense of group, does it have a strong bond and team dynamic and a collective buy in to the game plan and strategy. Part of this is getting the right balance of personalities as well as complementary skill sets - a team of 11 John Terrys would be just as dysfunctional as a team of 11 Tom Cairneys. This is something that the stats based approach falls down on - it doesn't take into account personality type let alone character. TC shouldn't be criticised for not having a similar personality type to Terry Butcher or Stuart Pearce or John Terry - he has the personality type he has - but he did have the skill set to make him the fulcrum of the Slav side. Was that sufficient to make him captain? For my part - I don't really care particularly if he has 2 or 3 more vocal characters in the squad and another half a dozen with real inner steel. His personality type was not an issue last season.
I read somewhere that Alfie Mawson on arriving at the club commented that the dressing room was made up of good blokes but was unusually quiet. That is not the fault of the captain since he has no say in the make of the squad. I think building a squad which is greater than the sum of its parts requires alchemy - a blending of complementary skill sets and personality types all buying into a clear vision and clear style of play. One player's leadership skills cannot do this alone and, certainly in football, unless a particular player was considered to have a negative affect on the team dynamic, I really do not believe that making player X rather than player Y as captain will make any appreciable difference in circumstances where the squad remains unaltered.
There is a lot in this post to digest, with examples of where captaincy has apparently made a difference, and also examples of where it has apparently failed to make a difference. I subscribe to the alchemy theory since the business of human chemistry is unexplained in science, and does, to all intents and purposes, follow the routes of subtle trickery using whatever is there and unseen to us humans to make something completely unexpected and different happen. I think one of the triumphs of Jokanovic is how he manipulated personalities into believing in each other, to have the guts to try and not be devastated when it didin't work out even after considerable practise. He believed it would work eventually, perhaps because he had experienced it working wherever he saw it in action. His habit of forcing players to catch his eye in training, giving them a fair crack of the whip to show the same in a game, and then making them try even harder if they failed again, is, after all, how professionals either become masters of their craft or failures. Those who give up on themselves don't deserve selection. I also agree that when you have a bunch of lads at the top of their game the captain becomes less signifcant other than getting to hold the silver first.
There really is no one in the squad who has the qualifications needed for a captain suitable to see us through the next seventeen games.
This week our priority has to be signing a premier league proven centre back who will automatically command a place in the team and has the much needed captain qualities.
Maybe just someone on the pitch that can gee up a player that might be having a tough time, a bit of encouragement. I noticed yesterday when Cairney laid on a ball for Vietto, a def half chance and he messed it up, Cairney just stood there a shook his head, now if that was me, or a good few others on here I would be in his ear to get a grip with things etc.
Sess.
Since no one really have the leadership qualities, we should look at who instead have the biggest heart and work rate.
I'd offer it to Cahill !
