Friends of Fulham

Fulham vice-chairman Tony Khan has said he holds himself accountable for the club's unsuccessful £100million player recruitment last summer.

(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/jrMhkMH2CwLoRPtZ5R1Lsw--~A/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAw/http://media.zenfs.com/en-GB/homerun/uk.goal.com/da4b6f5324509c95cf9cecb36d43b776)

The Cottagers invested heavily on 12 new players ahead of their return to the Premier League, but many of their expensive signings have struggled.

Fulham are facing relegation and Khan has received criticism for his role in the recruitment. The club have a 'both boxes ticked' policy, in which any signing must be approved by data analysis and more traditional scouting methods.

Then manager Slavisa Jokanovic was unhappy with the strategy and wanted greater control.

Andre-Frank Zambo Anguissa was signed for around £30m, while Jean Michael Seri arrived for around £25m and they are among the new signings who have failed to make an impact.

In a meeting with the Fulham Supporters' Trust, Khan admitted he can understand some of the criticism aimed at him but said his record should be balanced by the success achieved by the club in the previous two seasons.

Notes from the meeting read: "TK (Khan) said no one has done more analysis of the struggle of this season, and holds himself accountable for recruitment this season, but also feels his record should be balanced by the success achieved by the club in the previous two years.

"He also felt that there had always been the chance that Fulham could get relegated this year, particularly given that 15 of the last 26 play-off final winners went straight back down.

"On criticism of the amount spent on incoming players last summer, TK responded that he could understand criticism given how events have transpired, particularly after two good years previously.

"Injuries to experienced players (Alfie Mawson) had an impact and signings, including Seri and Anguissa, were important players for the future. Some of the criticism of these players he felt had been unfair."

The Trust also used the meeting to urge the club to update supporters on what is happening with the £100m redevelopment of the Riverside Stand at Craven Cottage.

Fulham still plan to start work on the new stand at the end of this season but season-ticket holders have yet to be told where they will be relocated. Fans have also called for ticket prices to be reduced.

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/fulham/fulham-vicechairman-tony-khan-takes-blame-for-failed-100m-summer-recruitment-drive-a4096761.html

Hmm ok so responsibility for this season admitted. However, he claims previous 2 seasons his stats were a success.

Who did he bring in stats wise over the last two seasons on permanent signings?

Odoi has certainly been a good stats signing.
Kamara was, in my view, a good signing. However the end result is that his temperament has pushed him out on loan. So.. does that go down as minus points for a stats based model?
Kebano a luke warm signing on reflection.
Rui Fonte disastrous.
Others?

Is this real?? Like actually??

The main criticism I can see , is the short termism in those aforementioned two years. The reliance on loans, and loans again which got us a 3rd place and a 6th place. Deeming those years a success in recruitment while those two years of loan signings ultimately forced the Khans hand in having to then go out and spend instead of building gradually over those 2 years with premier league ready players.
The fact we had to buy so many players and therefore rush this seasons recruitment was caused by only having what , 12 or 13 players start pre season

Even then, some or many of those signings weren't ready or good enough for the championship let alone have a strategy which was building towards the premier league.  No one can say the likes of Mollo, Djalo, Fonte, even Christie, Cisse or Sigurdsson were ever going to be good enough for the premier league.

It's short term thinking, poor planning and reactionary rather than proactive thinking which got us in the mess , which caused this seasons debacle , but it's a storm that's been brewed in a can kicked down the road repeatedly just to avoid forward planning.

I don't know for sure whether it's a combination of TK and SJ or simply one or the other but should it not read two successful half seasons in the middle years of this regime.

The man is delusional.
He is very incompetent and his dad negligent for allowing it.

He failed to bring in the right players. We needed full backs and a fit center half plus a tough central midfielder and got none of that. But we did get two crap goalkeepers a couple of lightweight barely ordinaryy overpriced midfielders, a past his sell by date german and assorted other dross. A waste of £100m, not one success among them.

He is useless, and if his surname was not Khan, he would be gone. His words were pathetic and an insult to those that paid good money for their tickets.

If TK had any decency and was genuinely sincere, and had the best interest of Fulham FC at heart.
He would have resigned, but he has no shame, and his father conveniently overlooks the wreckage his son has orchestrated.

The headline is totally misleading. He blames injuries, says the criticism is "unfair", "15 of the last 26 play-off final winners went straight back down" and "his record should be balanced by the success achieved in the last 2 years." That is absolutely not "holding himself accountable".

FWIW we've been relatively fortunate with injuries I think, the criticism is more than fair (we're sh1t!), none of the last 26 play-off winners spent £100m, and our success in the last 2 yrs was more attributable to Rigg and Jokanovic than to TK.

Quote from: Newry FFC on March 20, 2019, 07:56:13 PM
The main criticism I can see , is the short termism in those aforementioned two years. The reliance on loans, and loans again which got us a 3rd place and a 6th place. Deeming those years a success in recruitment while those two years of loan signings ultimately forced the Khans hand in having to then go out and spend instead of building gradually over those 2 years with premier league ready players.

Without wishing to go off on a tangent or repeat things already said on other threads, all those loan players, except perhaps Targett, were available to buy (or even re-loan) in the summer if we wanted to keep them longer. So to me it seems immaterial whether they were on loan or permanent. I suspect TK just didn't think Kalas, Piazon and Norwood were good enough. In which case, if they'd been on permanent contracts, I suspect he'd have sold them or loaned them out as he did with Button and Johansen.

Quote from: ALG01 on March 20, 2019, 08:45:53 PM
The man is delusional.
He is very incompetent and his dad negligent for allowing it.

He failed to bring in the right players. We needed full backs and a fit center half plus a tough central midfielder and got none of that. But we did get two crap goalkeepers a couple of lightweight barely ordinaryy overpriced midfielders, a past his sell by date german and assorted other dross. A waste of £100m, not one success among them.

He is useless, and if his surname was not Khan, he would be gone. His words were pathetic and an insult to those that paid good money for their tickets.

I think that we all know that his relationship with the owner is the only reason for his continued presence in that position as Head of Football Operations. I think its interesting as that role could have a Director of Football report to it as the Coach and Head Scout does, several people have argued that what he needs is an experienced football professional as that DOF next to/under him and helping him. Come what may as the owner's son he comes with the territory.

I think in his defence:
a. FFP due to the screw ups of their first two seasons when they listened to "real football men" like Curbishley and Mike Rigg meant they worked with a lot of loans as there was no guarantee of promotion.
b. They pursued Targett until being screwed over by Hughes and Les Reed on the last day of the window.
c. They signed 2 Premier League quality CBs in Mawson and Chambers plus MLM as squad back up. It was not TK's fault Mawson is made of balsa wood and glue and Chambers had one horror show CB game and disappeared into midfield until last week.

Quote from: Statto on March 20, 2019, 09:00:05 PM
The headline is totally misleading. He blames injuries, says the criticism is "unfair", "15 of the last 26 play-off final winners went straight back down" and "his record should be balanced by the success achieved in the last 2 years." That is absolutely not "holding himself accountable".

FWIW we've been relatively fortunate with injuries I think, the criticism is more than fair (we're sh1t!), none of the last 26 play-off winners spent £100m, and our success in the last 2 yrs was more attributable to Rigg and Jokanovic than to TK.

Agreed. Bar Odoi, nearly all his stats signings have been poor. And Odoi is not Prem quality.

So, this interview tells us that we are in for more of the same as long as TK is in charge. He has not reflected or learned from his mistakes. Very, very concerning.

Let's hope Khan Sr. steps in and sympathetically changes things up.

We need more details on this two boxes ticked system , I assume that for those summer signings one box was ticked by Khan based on the stats formula and the other box by Jocanovic based on scouts reports.
If this is the case then Khan should be taking only 50% 0f the responsibility.

It is good of Khan to take responsibility for the recruitment failures but it would be nice to know what he intends to do to avoid a repeat of the same failure occurring again.

It is good to see that Khan is taking responsibility for our summer recruitment failure but perhaps  this two boxes ticked system that is in operation needs to be revised.
As I understand that both boxes needed to be ticked before a new player could be be signed, one box by Khan based on stats data and the other by Jocanovic based on his knowledge and scouts reports.

If this was the case then at the most Khan was only 50% responsible for the errors made.

15 out of 26 teams that win through the playoffs are relegated. More bleeding statistics, when will he learn.
Once said of an American President "For Gods Sake Go".

So, I think he's saying Anguissa, Seri & Mawson will be with us next season in the championship.... I'm assuming Shirley & Babel won't be - although I recall Shirley being signed on a 2 year loan....

Schurrle in the Championship would be funny if nothing else

Quote from: H4usuallysitting on March 20, 2019, 11:24:13 PM
So, I think he's saying Anguissa, Seri & Mawson will be with us next season in the championship.... I'm assuming Shirley & Babel won't be - although I recall Shirley being signed on a 2 year loan....

He also said we'd see multiple signings in January, and that we'd get ourselves out of trouble..

I'm sorry, but the guy is full of poo, and those comments about the last 2 seasons, tells you how far out of touch he is with football.

Tony is a legend in his own mind, and we a lot more to come from this clown yet, trust me.

Quote from: YoungsBitter on March 20, 2019, 09:05:35 PM

Quote from: ALG01 on March 20, 2019, 08:45:53 PM
The man is delusional.
He is very incompetent and his dad negligent for allowing it.

He failed to bring in the right players. We needed full backs and a fit center half plus a tough central midfielder and got none of that. But we did get two crap goalkeepers a couple of lightweight barely ordinaryy overpriced midfielders, a past his sell by date german and assorted other dross. A waste of £100m, not one success among them.

He is useless, and if his surname was not Khan, he would be gone. His words were pathetic and an insult to those that paid good money for their tickets.

I think that we all know that his relationship with the owner is the only reason for his continued presence in that position as Head of Football Operations. I think its interesting as that role could have a Director of Football report to it as the Coach and Head Scout does, several people have argued that what he needs is an experienced football professional as that DOF next to/under him and helping him. Come what may as the owner's son he comes with the territory.

I think in his defence:
a. FFP due to the screw ups of their first two seasons when they listened to "real football men" like Curbishley and Mike Rigg meant they worked with a lot of loans as there was no guarantee of promotion.
b. They pursued Targett until being screwed over by Hughes and Les Reed on the last day of the window.
c. They signed 2 Premier League quality CBs in Mawson and Chambers plus MLM as squad back up. It was not TK's fault Mawson is made of balsa wood and glue and Chambers had one horror show CB game and disappeared into midfield until last week.

when you fail on a serial basis, and he has there is no defence. I do not accept that in all the world, what we got was all that was available.

Quote from: gang on March 20, 2019, 09:54:52 PM
15 out of 26 teams that win through the playoffs are relegated. More bleeding statistics, when will he learn.
Once said of an American President "For Gods Sake Go".

More than half of those 15 teams are likely to be in the premier league next season.

Teams that were promoted in the playoff and relegated first season include:
1. Burnley
2. Leicester City
3. Wolverhampton Wanderers
4-5. Crystal Palace x2
6-7. Watford x2
8.Norwich City

This shows we need to avoiding a panic rebuild and just build forward.

Forget the Blame Pie, the squad is good enough to win the Championship provided we don't lose any permenants down the spine of the team (e.g. Mitro). Fulham need to lead the Championship from start to finish and then do better in the premier league.

Quote from: ALG01 on March 20, 2019, 11:32:16 PM

Quote from: YoungsBitter on March 20, 2019, 09:05:35 PM

Quote from: ALG01 on March 20, 2019, 08:45:53 PM
The man is delusional.
He is very incompetent and his dad negligent for allowing it.

He failed to bring in the right players. We needed full backs and a fit center half plus a tough central midfielder and got none of that. But we did get two crap goalkeepers a couple of lightweight barely ordinaryy overpriced midfielders, a past his sell by date german and assorted other dross. A waste of £100m, not one success among them.

He is useless, and if his surname was not Khan, he would be gone. His words were pathetic and an insult to those that paid good money for their tickets.

I think that we all know that his relationship with the owner is the only reason for his continued presence in that position as Head of Football Operations. I think its interesting as that role could have a Director of Football report to it as the Coach and Head Scout does, several people have argued that what he needs is an experienced football professional as that DOF next to/under him and helping him. Come what may as the owner's son he comes with the territory.

I think in his defence:
a. FFP due to the screw ups of their first two seasons when they listened to "real football men" like Curbishley and Mike Rigg meant they worked with a lot of loans as there was no guarantee of promotion.
b. They pursued Targett until being screwed over by Hughes and Les Reed on the last day of the window.
c. They signed 2 Premier League quality CBs in Mawson and Chambers plus MLM as squad back up. It was not TK's fault Mawson is made of balsa wood and glue and Chambers had one horror show CB game and disappeared into midfield until last week.

when you fail on a serial basis, and he has there is no defence. I do not accept that in all the world, what we got was all that was available.

Looking it from the Player's Perspective. Before FFC signed both Mitrovoic and Mawson signed (2nd August), I think, we would have been one of "premier league quality players" last choices for the club they wanted to join (Huddersfield and Cardiff being worse).

All the players that we wanted would have thought "we can find a better club" that will be assured of staying up. After 2nd August, players might have thought the squad should be ok, but it maybe already too late to form a good team cohesion for the season anyway.

And, every other Premier League club that wanted those available players would remind them not to join Fulham because:
i) "15 of 26 playoff clubs get relegated first season"
ii) "18 of 26 playoff clubs get relegated within two season"
iii) "3 of 26 playoff clubs that stayed up were bouncing back up after being in the premier league within the last two seasons"
iv) leaving "5 of 23 clubs succesfully achieving what Fulham is attempting first season"

What they won't tell them is there are five teams in the premier league this season (maybe Norwich will be the sixth next season) that got promoted via playoffs and relegated first season, only to be part of a longer journey renewing the squad and getting back into the premier league.

Lesson Learnt, next season we must avoid aiming for playoff place and go for automatic promotion. We need to start strong, be winning mid-season and even get one premier league quality player (like a centre back) in January transfer window to finish the season well and better prepare for premier league.  049:gif

I am glad that Tony Khan has at last holds himself responsible for the carnage he has enveloped Fulham FC with due to his incompetence. I am pleased he has found inner sanctuary, and I am looking forward to reading about his impending resignation to allow Fulham to bring in a genuine qualified professional Football person, to allow him to return to the land of the Cuckoo.

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on March 21, 2019, 04:48:03 AM
I am glad that Tony Khan has at last holds himself responsible for the carnage he has enveloped Fulham FC with due to his incompetence. I am pleased he has found inner sanctuary, and I am looking forward to reading about his impending resignation to allow Fulham to bring in a genuine qualified professional Football person, to allow him to return to the land of the Cuckoo.

now that would be a major step forward woolly.
If he doesn't then shad needs to move him aside!

And so Khan Jnr hides behind a FST question to convince himself that he engineered the two seasons of relative success in the Championship and that his critical summer signings were a) injured, b) for the future (bear in mind Seri is a 27y.o.), and in a team hopelessly mismanaged by the feckless combination of Jokanovic, Ranieri, and Parker all of whom were appointed by said Khan Jnr.

No mention that Fredericks was lost largely via a mistake made in his contract and never adequately replaced, Targett was available to sign but lavish spending elsewhere prevented his return, and Mitrovic's loan and signing was fortuitous after several windows of not securing a decent striker et cetera ...

The guy needs to find some humility deep down in that ill functioning personality of his, and admit that it is he that just isn't good enough for the job.

... but, instead, he'll just carry on digging, deep down in that hole he is standing in ...   

Quote from: toshes mate on March 21, 2019, 08:15:57 AM
And so Khan Jnr hides behind a FST question to convince himself that he engineered the two seasons of relative success in the Championship and that his critical summer signings were a) injured, b) for the future (bear in mind Seri is a 27y.o.), and in a team hopelessly mismanaged by the feckless combination of Jokanovic, Ranieri, and Parker all of whom were appointed by said Khan Jnr.

No mention that Fredericks was lost largely via a mistake made in his contract and never adequately replaced, Targett was available to sign but lavish spending elsewhere prevented his return, and Mitrovic's loan and signing was fortuitous after several windows of not securing a decent striker et cetera ...

The guy needs to find some humility deep down in that ill functioning personality of his, and admit that it is he that just isn't good enough for the job.

... but, instead, he'll just carry on digging, deep down in that hole he is standing in ...   

the trouble is the further he digs himself deeper the club sinks with him!

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on March 20, 2019, 08:59:58 PM
If TK had any decency and was genuinely sincere, and had the best interest of Fulham FC at heart.
He would have resigned, but he has no shame, and his father conveniently overlooks the wreckage his son has orchestrated.

+1 100%

Amongst the hysterical nonsense spouted by some on this thread my favourite has be the comment saying Joka was a poor appointment, feckless and mismanaged the team and that Parker is the same.   It's so obvious as to why this is nonsense I won't even go into it.

Quote from: Milo on March 20, 2019, 07:42:11 PM
Hmm ok so responsibility for this season admitted. However, he claims previous 2 seasons his stats were a success.

Who did he bring in stats wise over the last two seasons on permanent signings?

Odoi has certainly been a good stats signing.
Kamara was, in my view, a good signing. However the end result is that his temperament has pushed him out on loan. So.. does that go down as minus points for a stats based model?
Kebano a luke warm signing on reflection.
Rui Fonte disastrous.
Others?

Mitrovic?

Quote from: The Old Count on March 21, 2019, 08:36:35 AM
Amongst the hysterical nonsense spouted by some on this thread my favourite has be the comment saying Joka was a poor appointment, feckless and mismanaged the team and that Parker is the same.   It's so obvious as to why this is nonsense I won't even go into it.

As you are obviously equipped to comprehend English, if not its finer points and subtleties, the appointments and sackings of head coaches or managers are attempts by owners to get results, would you agree? 

Out of all the appointments made by the Khans is is noteworthy that only Jokanovic, out of all their attempts to recruit able operators, achieved a points per game record of more than that necessary to prevent relegation issues being a feature of their reign (i.e. better than one point per game). 

The subtlety in that simple fact is that in eight attempts to recruit managers (caretakers included) only one appointment has worked.  If that failure to recruit success at that level is extrapolated to playing staff then it may suggest where the true failures of the Khan era has been.  Perhaps the madness of FFC is in having far too many supporters who seem too frightened to turn on their wealthy but inept owners as the source of the problems we have encountered throughout their reign.

Quote from: DevonFFC on March 21, 2019, 08:37:16 AM

Quote from: Milo on March 20, 2019, 07:42:11 PM
Hmm ok so responsibility for this season admitted. However, he claims previous 2 seasons his stats were a success.

Who did he bring in stats wise over the last two seasons on permanent signings?

Odoi has certainly been a good stats signing.
Kamara was, in my view, a good signing. However the end result is that his temperament has pushed him out on loan. So.. does that go down as minus points for a stats based model?
Kebano a luke warm signing on reflection.
Rui Fonte disastrous.
Others?

Mitrovic?

Hmm perhaps, but I think Statto has correctly attributed Mitrovic to Jokanovic. Not a Khan stats signing in the slightest.

Quote from: toshes mate on March 21, 2019, 08:15:57 AM
And so Khan Jnr hides behind a FST question to convince himself that he engineered the two seasons of relative success in the Championship and that his critical summer signings were a) injured, b) for the future (bear in mind Seri is a 27y.o.), and in a team hopelessly mismanaged by the feckless combination of Jokanovic, Ranieri, and Parker all of whom were appointed by said Khan Jnr.

No mention that Fredericks was lost largely via a mistake made in his contract and never adequately replaced, Targett was available to sign but lavish spending elsewhere prevented his return, and Mitrovic's loan and signing was fortuitous after several windows of not securing a decent striker et cetera ...

The guy needs to find some humility deep down in that ill functioning personality of his, and admit that it is he that just isn't good enough for the job.

... but, instead, he'll just carry on digging, deep down in that hole he is standing in ...   

Agree! Except for the Joka part.

Quote from: Milo on March 21, 2019, 09:15:52 AM

Quote from: toshes mate on March 21, 2019, 08:15:57 AM
And so Khan Jnr hides behind a FST question to convince himself that he engineered the two seasons of relative success in the Championship and that his critical summer signings were a) injured, b) for the future (bear in mind Seri is a 27y.o.), and in a team hopelessly mismanaged by the feckless combination of Jokanovic, Ranieri, and Parker all of whom were appointed by said Khan Jnr.

No mention that Fredericks was lost largely via a mistake made in his contract and never adequately replaced, Targett was available to sign but lavish spending elsewhere prevented his return, and Mitrovic's loan and signing was fortuitous after several windows of not securing a decent striker et cetera ...

The guy needs to find some humility deep down in that ill functioning personality of his, and admit that it is he that just isn't good enough for the job.

... but, instead, he'll just carry on digging, deep down in that hole he is standing in ...   

Agree! Except for the Joka part.

I believe that Joka should definitely have his share of the blame this season. There are mitigating circumstances to his poor results, but regardless he lost his plot after a few games in my opinion, and never really recovered (although the Liverpool game might have indicated that he was on to something). He helped digging the hole he found himself in, and unfortunately the Khan's didn't trust him to find his way out.

For what it's worth, I believe that it was wrong to sack Joka, and I think that we would still be in with a chance had we kept him. That doesn't mean that he is blameless (neither is the owner, his son, the scouts, Ali Mac, the coaches and the players).

Quote from: Milo on March 21, 2019, 09:14:32 AM

Quote from: DevonFFC on March 21, 2019, 08:37:16 AM

Quote from: Milo on March 20, 2019, 07:42:11 PM
Hmm ok so responsibility for this season admitted. However, he claims previous 2 seasons his stats were a success.

Who did he bring in stats wise over the last two seasons on permanent signings?

Odoi has certainly been a good stats signing.
Kamara was, in my view, a good signing. However the end result is that his temperament has pushed him out on loan. So.. does that go down as minus points for a stats based model?
Kebano a luke warm signing on reflection.
Rui Fonte disastrous.
Others?

Mitrovic?

Hmm perhaps, but I think Statto has correctly attributed Mitrovic to Jokanovic. Not a Khan stats signing in the slightest.

Quote from: Milo on March 21, 2019, 09:14:32 AM

Quote from: DevonFFC on March 21, 2019, 08:37:16 AM

Quote from: Milo on March 20, 2019, 07:42:11 PM
Hmm ok so responsibility for this season admitted. However, he claims previous 2 seasons his stats were a success.

Who did he bring in stats wise over the last two seasons on permanent signings?

Odoi has certainly been a good stats signing.
Kamara was, in my view, a good signing. However the end result is that his temperament has pushed him out on loan. So.. does that go down as minus points for a stats based model?
Kebano a luke warm signing on reflection.
Rui Fonte disastrous.
Others?

Mitrovic?

Hmm perhaps, but I think Statto has correctly attributed Mitrovic to Jokanovic. Not a Khan stats signing in the slightest.

I am repeating myself, but as yet no one has contradicted me, with the two ticked box system we operate is it not correct that Jocanovic must have been 50% responsible for all of those signings last summer.

Quote from: filham on March 21, 2019, 09:25:57 AM

Quote from: Milo on March 21, 2019, 09:14:32 AM

Quote from: DevonFFC on March 21, 2019, 08:37:16 AM

Quote from: Milo on March 20, 2019, 07:42:11 PM
Hmm ok so responsibility for this season admitted. However, he claims previous 2 seasons his stats were a success.

Who did he bring in stats wise over the last two seasons on permanent signings?

Odoi has certainly been a good stats signing.
Kamara was, in my view, a good signing. However the end result is that his temperament has pushed him out on loan. So.. does that go down as minus points for a stats based model?
Kebano a luke warm signing on reflection.
Rui Fonte disastrous.
Others?

Mitrovic?

Hmm perhaps, but I think Statto has correctly attributed Mitrovic to Jokanovic. Not a Khan stats signing in the slightest.

Quote from: Milo on March 21, 2019, 09:14:32 AM

Quote from: DevonFFC on March 21, 2019, 08:37:16 AM

Quote from: Milo on March 20, 2019, 07:42:11 PM
Hmm ok so responsibility for this season admitted. However, he claims previous 2 seasons his stats were a success.

Who did he bring in stats wise over the last two seasons on permanent signings?

Odoi has certainly been a good stats signing.
Kamara was, in my view, a good signing. However the end result is that his temperament has pushed him out on loan. So.. does that go down as minus points for a stats based model?
Kebano a luke warm signing on reflection.
Rui Fonte disastrous.
Others?

Mitrovic?

Hmm perhaps, but I think Statto has correctly attributed Mitrovic to Jokanovic. Not a Khan stats signing in the slightest.

I am repeating myself, but as yet no one has contradicted me, with the two ticked box system we operate is it not correct that Jocanovic must have been 50% responsible for all of those signings last summer.

As far as I know you are definitely not correct. I have never seen stated that Joka had to tick one of the boxes. To my understanding it is stats and traditional scouting. The scouts don't report to the manager but to the head of transfers which is Khan Jr. Joka surely had some input at some level but there is nothing to suggest as far as I know that his input was more than marginal at best.

I am happy to be proven wrong, but I think that your understanding that one of the boxes belonged to Joka is completely incorrect and I have never heard of it anywhere before.

Quote from: Sting of the North on March 21, 2019, 09:32:00 AM

Quote from: filham on March 21, 2019, 09:25:57 AM

Quote from: Milo on March 21, 2019, 09:14:32 AM

Quote from: DevonFFC on March 21, 2019, 08:37:16 AM

Quote from: Milo on March 20, 2019, 07:42:11 PM
Hmm ok so responsibility for this season admitted. However, he claims previous 2 seasons his stats were a success.

Who did he bring in stats wise over the last two seasons on permanent signings?

Odoi has certainly been a good stats signing.
Kamara was, in my view, a good signing. However the end result is that his temperament has pushed him out on loan. So.. does that go down as minus points for a stats based model?
Kebano a luke warm signing on reflection.
Rui Fonte disastrous.
Others?

Mitrovic?

Hmm perhaps, but I think Statto has correctly attributed Mitrovic to Jokanovic. Not a Khan stats signing in the slightest.

Quote from: Milo on March 21, 2019, 09:14:32 AM

Quote from: DevonFFC on March 21, 2019, 08:37:16 AM

Quote from: Milo on March 20, 2019, 07:42:11 PM
Hmm ok so responsibility for this season admitted. However, he claims previous 2 seasons his stats were a success.

Who did he bring in stats wise over the last two seasons on permanent signings?

Odoi has certainly been a good stats signing.
Kamara was, in my view, a good signing. However the end result is that his temperament has pushed him out on loan. So.. does that go down as minus points for a stats based model?
Kebano a luke warm signing on reflection.
Rui Fonte disastrous.
Others?

Mitrovic?

Hmm perhaps, but I think Statto has correctly attributed Mitrovic to Jokanovic. Not a Khan stats signing in the slightest.

I am repeating myself, but as yet no one has contradicted me, with the two ticked box system we operate is it not correct that Jocanovic must have been 50% responsible for all of those signings last summer.

As far as I know you are definitely not correct. I have never seen stated that Joka had to tick one of the boxes. To my understanding it is stats and traditional scouting. The scouts don't report to the manager but to the head of transfers which is Khan Jr. Joka surely had some input at some level but there is nothing to suggest as far as I know that his input was more than marginal at best.

I am happy to be proven wrong, but I think that your understanding that one of the boxes belonged to Joka is completely incorrect and I have never heard of it anywhere before.

So then who actually ticks the two boxes, it seems crazy to me that one of them is not the manager.
Of course the system has a great weaknes if you remember the old saying that if you split responsibility between two people each will take 2%.

The two box ticking exercise is mythological to the extent of being tokenism as in covering the backs of those involved.  Who knows whether there have been pieces of paper with ticks in two boxes, and who actually made the ticks, and whether or not they were signed?  Given that so many signings were made in a panic during the last hours of windows then who is to say if those ticks appeared before or after a deal was done.

The bottom line is that when a transfer or loan fails the system behind it fails at the same time and whether or not a ticked box or two was behind that failure is semantic to say the least.

Sensibility says you strive toward the development of a system that works and judge your success by reducing failures.  That simply has not happened.

Quote from: Milo on March 20, 2019, 07:42:11 PM
Hmm ok so responsibility for this season admitted. However, he claims previous 2 seasons his stats were a success.

Who did he bring in stats wise over the last two seasons on permanent signings?

Odoi has certainly been a good stats signing.
Kamara was, in my view, a good signing. However the end result is that his temperament has pushed him out on loan. So.. does that go down as minus points for a stats based model?
Kebano a luke warm signing on reflection.
Rui Fonte disastrous.
Others?

Other permanent transfers last season: Djalo, Cisse, Mollo, Christie. The rest were loans.

Our success last season was based on Mitro (thanks to Jokanovic), other loans from higher division clubs and players signed before TK was appointed DoF (plus a number of other titles). The players TK actually signed last season were short term solutions and failures. Even some of the loans were disasters, like Soares. An injured player on loan???

Blaming Mawsons injury must be the worst excuse ever. He was after all injured when TK signed him. And if injury to ONE CB is enough to ruin the season then TK has clearly failed to provide a decent squad. Everyone has known for several years now that we need CBs and more squad depth.

We can't expect to go through an entire season in the Championship again with hardly any injuries. We were almost unbelivably lucky with injuries last season. With the exception of Cairney and Ayite we had more or less a full squad available for the entire season. Cardiff had almost half their squad injured at one point and they still managed to finish above us. Our squad was ridiculously thin last season but we somehow got away with it.

Quote from: Sting of the North on March 21, 2019, 09:24:20 AM
I believe that Joka should definitely have his share of the blame this season. There are mitigating circumstances to his poor results, but regardless he lost his plot after a few games in my opinion, and never really recovered (although the Liverpool game might have indicated that he was on to something). He helped digging the hole he found himself in, and unfortunately the Khan's didn't trust him to find his way out.

For what it's worth, I believe that it was wrong to sack Joka, and I think that we would still be in with a chance had we kept him. That doesn't mean that he is blameless (neither is the owner, his son, the scouts, Ali Mac, the coaches and the players).

Agree. IMO his major error was insisting on playing Ream and Odoi at CB throughout that four-game spell when we conceded 15 goals, after the draw against Watford.

FWIW if we were arbitrarily apportioning blame I'd have JK 10%, Ranieri 20%, Mackintosh 30% and TK 40%. 

For all you guy criticising the Stats approach to squad selection may I point out that our current England Manager Gareth Southgate used the "Computer Says Yes" appraoch to team selection. Or at least, The Computer would almost select the exactly same team.

Out of the 19 Outfield players selected for the England Squad: i) 15 are in the Top 30 Stats English Player this season, ii) 3 have been in the Top 30 last season and have represented England at World Cup and iii) lastly Callum Hudson-Odoi is a highly speculative selection.

And once you remove injuried players and over 30 year old players; the only players a computer would have selected over the ones selected that are in the Top 21 Stats players are Aaron Wan-Bissaka, James Maddison and Luke Shaw.

In summary, Gareth Southgate selection of outfield playerscould be
i) don't consider injuried players, players over 30 yo that will not be considered (e.g. Ashley Young)
ii) let the stats choice the outfield players and remove all centre backs not in the top 12 players

iii) leave out Aaron Wan-Bissaka and James Maddison as there are in their first full season of premier league
iiia) replace them with Kyle Walker-23rd and Ross Barkley who had great stats at Everton

iv) replace Luke Shaw 13th with next best left back Danny Rose 29th
v)  add Eric Dyer, Jordan Henderson and Callum Hudson-Odoi

Garethe Southgate is a convert to "Compiuter Says Yes" or at least he selects the same players as the computer.

Well if I was to accept all you say, then Statistics have certainly not done Fulham any good, and that is not a statistic, that is a fact.
Statistics show, that the people who celebrate the most birthdays are the oldest.
According to a recent government survey, 3/4 of the people living in England make up 75% of the population.
Also 51% of the population are the majority.

But to rest my case and to put this to bed, there are 3 kinds of lies, there are lies, dammed lies and statistics.

I just get the impression that whatever TK says (and does) will not be enough for some people as long as he remains connected to the club.

Frankly I would rather he were here if it means continued investment. MJG did a survey on views of success rates on transfers and IIRC we are bang average in that.

Not every purchase will be a success but the number of  "I never want to see xxxx in the shirt again" posts following a couple of bad performances has featured heavily on these boards for people who have turned out alright or started to put in better subsequent performances. True they have also applied to players who never came good, but is our success rate so much worse than under MAF? - I don't think so.

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on March 21, 2019, 12:24:34 PM
Well if I was to accept all you say, then Statistics have certainly not done Fulham any good, and that is not a statistic, that is a fact.
Statistics show, that the people who celebrate the most birthdays are the oldest.
According to a recent government survey, 3/4 of the people living in England make up 75% of the population.
Also 51% of the population are the majority.

But to rest my case and to put this to bed, there are 3 kinds of lies, there are lies, dammed lies and statistics.

Well in Gareth Southgate only trusts Statistics then here is the team selection

1. Tom Henton
2. Kieran Trippier
3. Ben Chilwell
4. Michael Keane
5. Harry Maguire
6. Declan Rice
7. Raheem Sterling
8. Ross Barkley
9. Harry Kane
10. Dele All
11. Jadon Sancho
12. Marcus Rashford

There's quite an interesting post over on TiFF re stats approach by Spigs.

There was quite an entertaining, if not altogether enlightening, programme about data on BBC Four last night, which sought, among other things to show how it is possible to mathematically 'prove' that data processing can be made to fit any scenario we care to mention, especially because, for example, there are ganglia in our brains that are always involved in checking out reasoning and logic, disassembling and reassembling facts and experiences so that we can store them efficiently.  The processes of these nerve clusters appear to resemble the mathematics involved in disassembling and resolving data in information technology so that it can be properly understood and represented in digital/binary code leading to digital audio, digital video, and effectively digital data. 

What is stated right at the beginning of this process of understanding is that data is just 'stuff', a lot of it is never recorded anywhere, a lot of it is not understood, and a lot of it may be misinformation.  Stats is just another name for a record which can simply be anything written or drawn at any time past or present to record or note something.  The importance of it is another matter entirely.  As far as I can tell anyone can make a pencil mark on a piece of paper but making sense of what that pencil mark means is something entirely different.  The magic of 'stats' was known a very long time before clockwork, steam, and electricity made computers possible at some point in our future.  The problem we have in regards to TK is whether or not his computer system is better than anyone else's computer system and that will be forever moot.       

Quote from: The Rational Fan on March 21, 2019, 12:39:33 PM

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on March 21, 2019, 12:24:34 PM
Well if I was to accept all you say, then Statistics have certainly not done Fulham any good, and that is not a statistic, that is a fact.
Statistics show, that the people who celebrate the most birthdays are the oldest.
According to a recent government survey, 3/4 of the people living in England make up 75% of the population.
Also 51% of the population are the majority.

But to rest my case and to put this to bed, there are 3 kinds of lies, there are lies, dammed lies and statistics.

Well in Gareth Southgate only trusts Statistics then here is the team selection

1. Tom Henton
2. Kieran Trippier
3. Ben Chilwell
4. Michael Keane
5. Harry Maguire
6. Declan Rice
7. Raheem Sterling
8. Ross Barkley
9. Harry Kane
10. Dele All
11. Jadon Sancho
12. Marcus Rashford

That is what you say to fit your argument.
But my point is, that you do not need statistics to show who your best players are, that list you have drawn up would have been chosen anyway by visual means. Apart from Tom Henton who is clearly a Stats choice, and he plays for Two Bob Rovers 4th XI in Division 11 of the Sunday & District Two left feet League.
However, there is a guy I would recommend called Tom Heaton who plays for Burnley that should replace him as he has been identified visually as a dam good Goalkeeper.
I don't need stats for that.

He doesn't though, does he? The title is totally at odds with his actual quotes.

I'll level with you all, I had just got to terms with this season and, hell, to some extent starting to look forward to next season! But this? These quotes. This scares me shitless. Absolutely pants soiled, bricking it. If he truly believes this, that he had done a good job in the last two years and that it was in someway down to him, then friends its worse than we imagined. Far, far worse.

I genuinely thought when I saw the title 'Ah, thank god, he's seen it and thought "I gave it a good go, but this is for more experienced people. I'll keep my hand in and do a bit more on of the marketing/commercial side of the club nut leave recruitment well alone". But, alas, no'.

An ego and delusion the size of a planet. Incredible. The last two years? you don' t have any claim to that success! Slav worked his cock off trying to find a way around the mess you gave him, using mostly Riggs signings, Mitro who he managed to convince you to get, and trying to set aside all of you 'work (see Djalo, Fonte, Mollo,  Madl, Sigurdsson, etc, etc, etc).

Lord above. We may need to hold on tight to each other for a bit, pals.

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on March 21, 2019, 01:44:50 PM

Quote from: The Rational Fan on March 21, 2019, 12:39:33 PM

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on March 21, 2019, 12:24:34 PM
Well if I was to accept all you say, then Statistics have certainly not done Fulham any good, and that is not a statistic, that is a fact.
Statistics show, that the people who celebrate the most birthdays are the oldest.
According to a recent government survey, 3/4 of the people living in England make up 75% of the population.
Also 51% of the population are the majority.

But to rest my case and to put this to bed, there are 3 kinds of lies, there are lies, dammed lies and statistics.

Well in Gareth Southgate only trusts Statistics then here is the team selection

That is what you say to fit your argument.
But my point is, that you do not need statistics to show who your best players are, that list you have drawn up would have been chosen anyway by visual means. Apart from Tom Henton who is clearly a Stats choice, and he plays for Two Bob Rovers 4th XI in Division 11 of the Sunday & District Two left feet League.
However, there is a guy I would recommend called Tom Heaton who plays for Burnley that should replace him as he has been identified visually as a dam good Goalkeeper.
I don't need stats for that.

If you one of the gifted few that can tell the difference between a player i) standing still, ii) walking, iii) running or iv) sprinting just by looking at player, then you don't need stats. You may realise some people in recruitment may or may not have such advanced skills as that, so they need stats.

In addition, stats can be really useful to determining which games a player play well or badly (for example Ryan Sessegnon plays well against Tottenham-A, Cardiff-A, Southampton- H, Lecesieter-H, Wolves-H as sub and Huddersfield-H as sub).

Quote from: toshes mate on March 21, 2019, 10:27:03 AM
The two box ticking exercise is mythological to the extent of being tokenism as in covering the backs of those involved.  Who knows whether there have been pieces of paper with ticks in two boxes, and who actually made the ticks, and whether or not they were signed?  Given that so many signings were made in a panic during the last hours of windows then who is to say if those ticks appeared before or after a deal was done.

The bottom line is that when a transfer or loan fails the system behind it fails at the same time and whether or not a ticked box or two was behind that failure is semantic to say the least.

Sensibility says you strive toward the development of a system that works and judge your success by reducing failures.  That simply has not happened.

I think I may well believe you when  you say that the 2 ticks system is a myth, I am beginning to think that the system may actually be one based on to influence the signings you have to program the computer or get the ear of T.Khan.

Quote from: snarks on March 21, 2019, 12:35:03 PM
I just get the impression that whatever TK says (and does) will not be enough for some people as long as he remains connected to the club.

Frankly I would rather he were here if it means continued investment. MJG did a survey on views of success rates on transfers and IIRC we are bang average in that.

Not every purchase will be a success but the number of  "I never want to see xxxx in the shirt again" posts following a couple of bad performances has featured heavily on these boards for people who have turned out alright or started to put in better subsequent performances. True they have also applied to players who never came good, but is our success rate so much worse than under MAF? - I don't think so.

Yes, you describe my view. I am seeing it soley through the dual vision glasses of my personal observation/experience AND my business hat.

Business: Under MAF we were very successful and there was a clear strategy in place that when it was going wrong was modified. He did not ssimply repeat the same errors over and over as does the current owner and son. I cannot comment on MJGs analysis but can comment on what is happening here. What we have done in the transfer market since the arrival of the Khan's is nowhere near good enough and what happened last summer and this January was negligent and suicidal. I am pleased for them that they have £100M to throw away so needlessly. My business head says the errors represent a repeating pattern of getting recruitment wrong and that 95% guaranteed failure this season when with that level of investemt we should have comfortably been able to survive.

Personal Observation: Since the Khan's arrived there has been very much good intent and fine words. But clearly they have made massive errors from day one. Not bringing in a Kegan style figure to assist and in my memory Hoddle was available and may have wanted the opportunity, to be a proper so called DoF. I do not accept oyur purchasing/loans has been par for the course or average and do not know how that assessment is possible. What I do know we is we got too many loan players, too many players of the wrong sort in the wrong positions, Slav screamed from the beginning that the transfer policy was killing us, and it was. I have never heard a manager so critical of his employers before (OK Clough was more so). There is no defence of what has happened. I can cope with their many errors but not that they make the same ones over and over. And even if it was a shame what happened in summer, the lack of activity in January was unforgivable, they have clearly given up on the season, and shown zero leadership.

It was pathetic to hear the reports of TK's words. It was delusional and surely he must know that if he was not called Khan he would have been long gone. I am happy to have son of as part of the management team, but not in charge of football matters for which he spectacularly unqualified and proving how wiothout doubt how much that is hurting us now.

What excuses will he make next season? Under TK Saha, Boa, Fina Horsefield, coleman McBride, Duff Davies aschwartzer nd many other fine players would never have signed for us. Nobody expects perfection, that is impossible, but I do expect them to learn, and they don't.

Quote from: snarks on March 21, 2019, 12:35:03 PM
MJG did a survey on views of success rates on transfers and IIRC we are bang average in that.

Not every purchase will be a success but the number of  "I never want to see xxxx in the shirt again" posts following a couple of bad performances has featured heavily on these boards for people who have turned out alright or started to put in better subsequent performances. True they have also applied to players who never came good, but is our success rate so much worse than under MAF? - I don't think so.

Facts can be spun different ways to suit a particular agenda, which is especially easy when using subjective, vague criteria like fans' "views" (from a limited, predetermined range of options, no doubt) on Twitter. I tried to use a more objective metric, the number of appearances in games we'd won, to measure the success of our signings, and it didn't reflect well on TK, but I'll admit that approach still wasn't without its flaws. However, looking at TK's track record and having regard to fees paid, I don't think anyone, under any reasonable analysis, can say it's not terrible. Something like 75% of the budget in 2016 going on Jozabed, Sigurdsson and Kebano, then substantially the entire budget in 2017 going on Fonte and Kamara. That is poor relative to any reasonable benchmark. And those are the two years TK claims were a success!

Quote from: The Rational Fan on March 21, 2019, 02:31:42 PM

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on March 21, 2019, 01:44:50 PM

Quote from: The Rational Fan on March 21, 2019, 12:39:33 PM

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on March 21, 2019, 12:24:34 PM
Well if I was to accept all you say, then Statistics have certainly not done Fulham any good, and that is not a statistic, that is a fact.
Statistics show, that the people who celebrate the most birthdays are the oldest.
According to a recent government survey, 3/4 of the people living in England make up 75% of the population.
Also 51% of the population are the majority.

But to rest my case and to put this to bed, there are 3 kinds of lies, there are lies, dammed lies and statistics.

Well in Gareth Southgate only trusts Statistics then here is the team selection

That is what you say to fit your argument.
But my point is, that you do not need statistics to show who your best players are, that list you have drawn up would have been chosen anyway by visual means. Apart from Tom Henton who is clearly a Stats choice, and he plays for Two Bob Rovers 4th XI in Division 11 of the Sunday & District Two left feet League.
However, there is a guy I would recommend called Tom Heaton who plays for Burnley that should replace him as he has been identified visually as a dam good Goalkeeper.
I don't need stats for that.

If you one of the gifted few that can tell the difference between a player i) standing still, ii) walking, iii) running or iv) sprinting just by looking at player, then you don't need stats. You may realise some people in recruitment may or may not have such advanced skills as that, so they need stats.

In addition, stats can be really useful to determining which games a player play well or badly (for example Ryan Sessegnon plays well against Tottenham-A, Cardiff-A, Southampton- H, Lecesieter-H, Wolves-H as sub and Huddersfield-H as sub).

I am not sure you really understand this issue. Football is not played on a computer.
The best way to watch a player, is to see how he performs away from the comfort zone of his home ground. That's is when you really see what he is made of. His body language, his application, how he reacts when he is having a bad game, does he hide, and stand next to an opponent so his team mates cannot past to him, because he does not want the ball. I could draw up a long list of reasons to watch a player, and how he responds to adversity, or otherwise. Reading your posts I get the impression you have never played football competively long enough to understand what myself and many others on here are saying.

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on March 21, 2019, 03:51:23 PM

Quote from: The Rational Fan on March 21, 2019, 02:31:42 PM

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on March 21, 2019, 01:44:50 PM

Quote from: The Rational Fan on March 21, 2019, 12:39:33 PM

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on March 21, 2019, 12:24:34 PM
Well if I was to accept all you say, then Statistics have certainly not done Fulham any good, and that is not a statistic, that is a fact.
Statistics show, that the people who celebrate the most birthdays are the oldest.
According to a recent government survey, 3/4 of the people living in England make up 75% of the population.
Also 51% of the population are the majority.

But to rest my case and to put this to bed, there are 3 kinds of lies, there are lies, dammed lies and statistics.

Well in Gareth Southgate only trusts Statistics then here is the team selection

That is what you say to fit your argument.
But my point is, that you do not need statistics to show who your best players are, that list you have drawn up would have been chosen anyway by visual means. Apart from Tom Henton who is clearly a Stats choice, and he plays for Two Bob Rovers 4th XI in Division 11 of the Sunday & District Two left feet League.
However, there is a guy I would recommend called Tom Heaton who plays for Burnley that should replace him as he has been identified visually as a dam good Goalkeeper.
I don't need stats for that.

If you one of the gifted few that can tell the difference between a player i) standing still, ii) walking, iii) running or iv) sprinting just by looking at player, then you don't need stats. You may realise some people in recruitment may or may not have such advanced skills as that, so they need stats.

In addition, stats can be really useful to determining which games a player play well or badly (for example Ryan Sessegnon plays well against Tottenham-A, Cardiff-A, Southampton- H, Lecesieter-H, Wolves-H as sub and Huddersfield-H as sub).

I am not sure you really understand this issue. Football is not played on a computer.
The best way to watch a player, is to see how he performs away from the comfort zone of his home ground. That's is when you really see what he is made of. His body language, his application, how he reacts when he is having a bad game, does he hide, and stand next to an opponent so his team mates cannot past to him, because he does not want the ball. I could draw up a long list of reasons to watch a player, and how he responds to adversity, or otherwise. Reading your posts I get the impression you have never played football competively long enough to understand what myself and many others on here are saying.

As I am fond of saying, but very few on here bother to take into account, I am very well qualified at stats and use such information as part of my job on a daily basis.
The usage that recruitment teams seem to make of stats based data is a recipe for disaster because in the words of the chant to many referees 'you don't know what you're doing.'

Stats might draw your attention to a player that has slipped under the radar but that is might and without actually watching that plaer for a good few games there is no way to make an assessment. Your review, Woolly, is sensible and clearly correct . where stats can be extremely useful is once having identified a couple of players  using a more traditional approach it can offer some assistance in determining the more subtle difference. For instances distance covered during a game. That is relevant to every player no matter what team in what division. Numbber of shots, blocks or tackles may mislead because if you play for a top team or bottom team will affect the results.

To use stats based analysis as the primary identifier of players is absolutely ridiculous and whilst I am sure there are a few examples where it found a gem it will fail more than succeed. I do happen to know wat is statistically relevant and what is not because I have studied the subject, and what is happening in football, for transfer purposes is of very third order benifit.

"surely he must know that if he was not called Khan he would have been long gone"

Deeper than that. If he was not called Khan he'd never have got the job in the first place. Wholly lacking in relevant knowledge and experience.

I mean - this was the least he could do after ballsing things up and telling fans to go to hell, then signing duds...

He's not good enough. Simply put - if his dad was not the owner (TK says he's a co-owner - laughable as the only way this is true is because of his dad's money, not his own success), he would not be still in the role.

This was the least he could and had to do to restore some sort of tangible working relationship at the club and restore some sort of productive working relationship between himself and others.

He lauded players, then either brought in replacements for them (seri/Cairney, Anguissa/Mcdonald, Babel/Schurrle - Sessegnon etc..) and then when the signings he supposedly brought in didn't work he, when all is lost and not before, he finally and probably reluctantly took responsibility in the softest way possible, when he realised his ego wasn't being appreciated by others and actually wasn't very good at doing what was supposed to do. As a person and professional he has to do a lot more proactively for the clubs success to earn his stripes.

Saying he had two good years before this year, when he's been at the club a lot longer than that - and when the aim of those two years was to get into the premiership and stay in the league (which he ultimately has failed at spectacularly), is a complete and utter waste of column inches/space and point.. It's just papering over the cracks, which makes me wonder if he's actually taking any of this seriously or to heart.

This isn't something you can act your way through the stages of - he's not that good. He either has to put genuine effort and focus into the club full time, or be replaced.

Quote from: ALG01 on March 21, 2019, 04:14:32 PM

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on March 21, 2019, 03:51:23 PM

Quote from: The Rational Fan on March 21, 2019, 02:31:42 PM

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on March 21, 2019, 01:44:50 PM

Quote from: The Rational Fan on March 21, 2019, 12:39:33 PM

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on March 21, 2019, 12:24:34 PM
Well if I was to accept all you say, then Statistics have certainly not done Fulham any good, and that is not a statistic, that is a fact.
Statistics show, that the people who celebrate the most birthdays are the oldest.
According to a recent government survey, 3/4 of the people living in England make up 75% of the population.
Also 51% of the population are the majority.

But to rest my case and to put this to bed, there are 3 kinds of lies, there are lies, dammed lies and statistics.

Well in Gareth Southgate only trusts Statistics then here is the team selection

That is what you say to fit your argument.
But my point is, that you do not need statistics to show who your best players are, that list you have drawn up would have been chosen anyway by visual means. Apart from Tom Henton who is clearly a Stats choice, and he plays for Two Bob Rovers 4th XI in Division 11 of the Sunday & District Two left feet League.
However, there is a guy I would recommend called Tom Heaton who plays for Burnley that should replace him as he has been identified visually as a dam good Goalkeeper.
I don't need stats for that.

If you one of the gifted few that can tell the difference between a player i) standing still, ii) walking, iii) running or iv) sprinting just by looking at player, then you don't need stats. You may realise some people in recruitment may or may not have such advanced skills as that, so they need stats.

In addition, stats can be really useful to determining which games a player play well or badly (for example Ryan Sessegnon plays well against Tottenham-A, Cardiff-A, Southampton- H, Lecesieter-H, Wolves-H as sub and Huddersfield-H as sub).

I am not sure you really understand this issue. Football is not played on a computer.
The best way to watch a player, is to see how he performs away from the comfort zone of his home ground. That's is when you really see what he is made of. His body language, his application, how he reacts when he is having a bad game, does he hide, and stand next to an opponent so his team mates cannot past to him, because he does not want the ball. I could draw up a long list of reasons to watch a player, and how he responds to adversity, or otherwise. Reading your posts I get the impression you have never played football competively long enough to understand what myself and many others on here are saying.

As I am fond of saying, but very few on here bother to take into account, I am very well qualified at stats and use such information as part of my job on a daily basis.
The usage that recruitment teams seem to make of stats based data is a recipe for disaster because in the words of the chant to many referees 'you don't know what you're doing.'

Stats might draw your attention to a player that has slipped under the radar but that is might and without actually watching that plaer for a good few games there is no way to make an assessment. Your review, Woolly, is sensible and clearly correct . where stats can be extremely useful is once having identified a couple of players  using a more traditional approach it can offer some assistance in determining the more subtle difference. For instances distance covered during a game. That is relevant to every player no matter what team in what division. Numbber of shots, blocks or tackles may mislead because if you play for a top team or bottom team will affect the results.

To use stats based analysis as the primary identifier of players is absolutely ridiculous and whilst I am sure there are a few examples where it found a gem it will fail more than succeed. I do happen to know wat is statistically relevant and what is not because I have studied the subject, and what is happening in football, for transfer purposes is of very third order benifit.

I agree with your every word ALGO1, what you say is to me basic common sense and I just can't understand why anyone should think otherwise.

Me too ALG01.

Quote from: toshes mate on March 21, 2019, 09:06:23 AM

Quote from: The Old Count on March 21, 2019, 08:36:35 AM
Amongst the hysterical nonsense spouted by some on this thread my favourite has be the comment saying Joka was a poor appointment, feckless and mismanaged the team and that Parker is the same.   It's so obvious as to why this is nonsense I won't even go into it.

As you are obviously equipped to comprehend English, if not its finer points and subtleties, the appointments and sackings of head coaches or managers are attempts by owners to get results, would you agree? 

Out of all the appointments made by the Khans is is noteworthy that only Jokanovic, out of all their attempts to recruit able operators, achieved a points per game record of more than that necessary to prevent relegation issues being a feature of their reign (i.e. better than one point per game). 

The subtlety in that simple fact is that in eight attempts to recruit managers (caretakers included) only one appointment has worked.  If that failure to recruit success at that level is extrapolated to playing staff then it may suggest where the true failures of the Khan era has been.  Perhaps the madness of FFC is in having far too many supporters who seem too frightened to turn on their wealthy but inept owners as the source of the problems we have encountered throughout their reign.

This really sums it all up for me!

After he reads this thread and many others he will have learned a lot of things and will come back wiser and stronger and more knowledgeable at the start of the next window and this time next year we will all take the credit on educating him on Fulham being promoted again, but then we will wake up!

Quote from: Statto on March 21, 2019, 03:30:47 PM

Quote from: snarks on March 21, 2019, 12:35:03 PM
MJG did a survey on views of success rates on transfers and IIRC we are bang average in that.

Not every purchase will be a success but the number of  "I never want to see xxxx in the shirt again" posts following a couple of bad performances has featured heavily on these boards for people who have turned out alright or started to put in better subsequent performances. True they have also applied to players who never came good, but is our success rate so much worse than under MAF? - I don't think so.

Facts can be spun different ways to suit a particular agenda, which is especially easy when using subjective, vague criteria like fans' "views" (from a limited, predetermined range of options, no doubt) on Twitter. I tried to use a more objective metric, the number of appearances in games we'd won, to measure the success of our signings, and it didn't reflect well on TK, but I'll admit that approach still wasn't without its flaws. However, looking at TK's track record and having regard to fees paid, I don't think anyone, under any reasonable analysis, can say it's not terrible. Something like 75% of the budget in 2016 going on Jozabed, Sigurdsson and Kebano, then substantially the entire budget in 2017 going on Fonte and Kamara. That is poor relative to any reasonable benchmark. And those are the two years TK claims were a success!

As a Fan, we just want recruitment to get better. If one side wins the futile argument to prove Tony Khan has "failed three years in a row" or "suceeded two out of three years", then it won't necessarily help Fulham. And from my perspective both views are biased as 16/17 recruits delivered value and most of the later recruits are yet to deliver their value (especially 17/18 recruits with Cisse and Christie being the only two from that group currently in the squad).

The "History of the Premier League" shows that the clubs (like WBA and other yo-yos) that come back up are the ones that believe in and stick with their team, rather than swap and change them. If you look at our performance against Liverpool, we are better than any team in the Championship. If we play as well as we did against Brighton, we will be breaking records in the Championship.

As for improving our recruitment, I think its worth acknowleging that are recruits below £2.1m ( Button, Odoi, McDonald, Johasen, Atiye, Babel and many of the juniors) have been exceptional good since Tony Khan has arrived and I thought the loans of 2017/18 were pretty good too, while bigger value signings seem to be a major problem.

But as long as we don't sell Mitrovoic, it should be a while before we make another big value signging. Of course, if we do sell Mitrovoic we will have to have a big value signing to replace him, which is likely our "Road to Ruin". I would point out that even if the Khans and AM select a new DoF (probably still a below average DoF for footballing brains), selling and replacing Mitrovoic will still probably lead to the "Road to Ruin".

The current squad is good enough for the Championship: as we have a lot of the Championship Squad of 17/18, bought another Championship Squad in the summer of 2018, we are good at buying a few cheaper players <2.1m for any gaps and we are good at getting loan players.  049:gif

Quote from: Statto on March 20, 2019, 09:03:16 PM

Quote from: Newry FFC on March 20, 2019, 07:56:13 PMforced the Khans hand in having to then go out and spend instead of building gradually over those 2 years with premier league ready players.

Without wishing to go off on a tangent or repeat things already said on other threads, all those loan players, except perhaps Targett, were available to buy (or even re-loan) in the summer if we wanted to keep them longer. So to me it seems immaterial whether they were on loan or permanent. I suspect TK just didn't think Kalas, Piazon and Norwood were good enough. In which case, if they'd been on permanent contracts, I suspect he'd have sold them or loaned them out as he did with Button and Johansen.

That is fact is damning because we had two homegrown spots in the first half of the season not used, that Kalas and Norwood plus maybe piazon could of filled. We have lost a lot of games after leading, even after making subsitutes and surely a horrible bench on some games has contributed to that.

While Tony Khan is at faults, I think for those players previously at the club that we failed to re-hire, the blame should rest with everyone of the football staff that didn't point it out. I personally think Kalas would have made an enomous difference this year in the battle to achieve 17th, and I wouldn't be surprised if Norwood take Sheffield United to 17th Place.

Which brings me make to one root cause of the problem, expecting too much too soon. We should have been aiming for 16th-17th place this season and purchases should have been done accordingly. And, if you want to come 17th then players like Schullre are not the ones you should be loaning. We don't know what options in the world Tony Khan had available, except for a few of the players at Fulham last season (maybe not Fredricks or Targett) but a number of the rest.

We changed the team more than we had to from the 25th May to 9th August, lets hope everyone learnt there lessons. Keep the old players until they aren't getting game time, then sell them. Kalas as a Loan was an absolute no brain with Ream and Mawson injured, Odoi suspended and Chambers/MLM only at the club 4 weeks collectively.

Fans cannot teach the DoF to recruit well, but fans can make the DoF wary of selling players that can deliver. Besides, if he doesn't sell the good players, buys a lot of players (like 7 per window) with a low success rate (e.g. 30% are PL) and we'll still do ok.

OK he has not been a roaring success. However, from what he said it appears that he is learning (lets hope thats true). Having worked for a number of US multi-nationals senior executives accepting blame is a very rare and brave thing (as it is everywhere). I admire him for accepting his culpability. As to some of the higher profile failures every club has them, haven't we got a £22million player from Liverpool on a short term free transfer and yet Klopp and his team are rightly lauded.. We must accept that we are not going to see TK fired, unless SK decides to sell up and we could then find ourselves back with owners like Bulstrode and Marler Estates.None of us have enjoyed this season but in over sixty years of watching Fulham it is nowhere near as bad as some seasons past. Keep supporting and COYW

Quote from: Cambridge Pete on March 22, 2019, 09:05:07 AM
accepting blame is a very rare and brave thing (as it is everywhere). I admire him for accepting his culpability.

But if you read the notes, that's not what he's done here.

Quote from: Statto on March 22, 2019, 09:42:44 AM

Quote from: Cambridge Pete on March 22, 2019, 09:05:07 AM
accepting blame is a very rare and brave thing (as it is everywhere). I admire him for accepting his culpability.

But if you read the notes, that's not what he's done here.

Nothing brave or to admire about his statement, he should be ashamed of his incompetence, and if he was sincere and had any decency he would resign immediately.
Plus his dad if he had any respect for Fulham FC should replace him ASAP. before he does any more damage, the blokes an embarrassment.

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on March 22, 2019, 10:08:40 AM

Quote from: Statto on March 22, 2019, 09:42:44 AM

Quote from: Cambridge Pete on March 22, 2019, 09:05:07 AM
accepting blame is a very rare and brave thing (as it is everywhere). I admire him for accepting his culpability.

But if you read the notes, that's not what he's done here.

Nothing brave or to admire about his statement, he should be ashamed of his incompetence, and if he was sincere and had any decency he would resign immediately.
Plus his dad if he had any respect for Fulham FC should replace him ASAP. before he does any more damage, the blokes an embarrassment.

Agree, WM.  He has been embarrassing himself for a long time and now he is embarrassing us too.

Quote from: Cambridge Pete on March 22, 2019, 09:05:07 AM
OK he has not been a roaring success. However, from what he said it appears that he is learning (lets hope thats true). Having worked for a number of US multi-nationals senior executives accepting blame is a very rare and brave thing (as it is everywhere). I admire him for accepting his culpability. As to some of the higher profile failures every club has them, haven't we got a £22million player from Liverpool on a short term free transfer and yet Klopp and his team are rightly lauded.. We must accept that we are not going to see TK fired, unless SK decides to sell up and we could then find ourselves back with owners like Bulstrode and Marler Estates. None of us have enjoyed this season but in over sixty years of watching Fulham it is nowhere near as bad as some seasons past. Keep supporting and COYW

I prefer to watch "Fulham FC" lose every week than watching "Fulham Park Rangers" wear "Blue Hula Hoops" at Loftus Road like our previous owners "Bulstrode and Marler Estates" suggested. "The Royal Bank of Scotland" were worrying owners as well.

Quote from: Newry FFC on March 20, 2019, 07:56:13 PM
Is this real?? Like actually??

The main criticism I can see , is the short termism in those aforementioned two years. The reliance on loans, and loans again which got us a 3rd place and a 6th place. Deeming those years a success in recruitment while those two years of loan signings ultimately forced the Khans hand in having to then go out and spend instead of building gradually over those 2 years with premier league ready players.
The fact we had to buy so many players and therefore rush this seasons recruitment was caused by only having what , 12 or 13 players start pre season

Even then, some or many of those signings weren't ready or good enough for the championship let alone have a strategy which was building towards the premier league.  No one can say the likes of Mollo, Djalo, Fonte, even Christie, Cisse or Sigurdsson were ever going to be good enough for the premier league.

It's short term thinking, poor planning and reactionary rather than proactive thinking which got us in the mess , which caused this seasons debacle , but it's a storm that's been brewed in a can kicked down the road repeatedly just to avoid forward planning.

Excellent mixed-metaphor !

Quote from: The Rational Fan on March 22, 2019, 10:30:58 AM

Quote from: Cambridge Pete on March 22, 2019, 09:05:07 AM
OK he has not been a roaring success. However, from what he said it appears that he is learning (lets hope thats true). Having worked for a number of US multi-nationals senior executives accepting blame is a very rare and brave thing (as it is everywhere). I admire him for accepting his culpability. As to some of the higher profile failures every club has them, haven't we got a £22million player from Liverpool on a short term free transfer and yet Klopp and his team are rightly lauded.. We must accept that we are not going to see TK fired, unless SK decides to sell up and we could then find ourselves back with owners like Bulstrode and Marler Estates. None of us have enjoyed this season but in over sixty years of watching Fulham it is nowhere near as bad as some seasons past. Keep supporting and COYW

I prefer to watch "Fulham FC" lose every week

Well you have had your wish come true, because Fulham FC are losing every week, so we'll done.

Quote from: Oakeshott on March 21, 2019, 04:19:38 PM
"surely he must know that if he was not called Khan he would have been long gone"

Deeper than that. If he was not called Khan he'd never have got the job in the first place. Wholly lacking in relevant knowledge and experience.

I stand corrected.
I am actually not against 'son of' being involved, I see that as a good thing and hopefully a commitment to the future, no matter what the family name might be. What i am struggling here with is, he tried, he failed, there are loads of extremely useful and important roles e can take up in the club if he wants to be involved. But if he was a true Fulham supporter, he would step aside. If I owned Fulham my first act would be for me to replace Mitro as center forward. After half a dozen games of inevitably failing to touch the ball, let alone score, I would give way to Mitro and that is what TK needs to understand, he tried but it didn't work out, and it will not work out.

Tony, I agree that statistically we were likely to get relegated, so why get rid of SJ? ......because you spent 100K not to get relegated..... you spent 100K on players for the long term with one eye on relegation... If they leave next year on loan or at a discount you failed by your own admission. Time to go then if not before. Tony, please choose another job at our club like head of catering or hospitality but please nothing that uses your great knowledge of Football (AM's view if not yours)!

Quote from: Dodger53 on March 22, 2019, 12:40:58 PM
Tony, I agree that statistically we were likely to get relegated, so why get rid of SJ? ......because you spent 100K not to get relegated..... you spent 100K on players for the long term with one eye on relegation... If they leave next year on loan or at a discount you failed by your own admission. Time to go then if not before. Tony, please choose another job at our club like head of catering or hospitality but please nothing that uses your great knowledge of Football (AM's view if not yours)!

There are plenty of other jobs he can do at Fulham which may well be more his forte.
Turnstile Operator. Matchday Program Seller, Corporate Hospitality Steward, to name but a few.
Providing he is kept is under supervision, until such times he is deemed suitable.

Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on March 21, 2019, 10:35:34 AM

Quote from: Milo on March 20, 2019, 07:42:11 PM
Hmm ok so responsibility for this season admitted. However, he claims previous 2 seasons his stats were a success.

Who did he bring in stats wise over the last two seasons on permanent signings?

Odoi has certainly been a good stats signing.
Kamara was, in my view, a good signing. However the end result is that his temperament has pushed him out on loan. So.. does that go down as minus points for a stats based model?
Kebano a luke warm signing on reflection.
Rui Fonte disastrous.
Others?

Other permanent transfers last season: Djalo, Cisse, Mollo, Christie. The rest were loans.

Our success last season was based on Mitro (thanks to Jokanovic), other loans from higher division clubs and players signed before TK was appointed DoF (plus a number of other titles). The players TK actually signed last season were short term solutions and failures. Even some of the loans were disasters, like Soares. An injured player on loan???

Blaming Mawsons injury must be the worst excuse ever. He was after all injured when TK signed him. And if injury to ONE CB is enough to ruin the season then TK has clearly failed to provide a decent squad. Everyone has known for several years now that we need CBs and more squad depth.

We can't expect to go through an entire season in the Championship again with hardly any injuries. We were almost unbelivably lucky with injuries last season. With the exception of Cairney and Ayite we had more or less a full squad available for the entire season. Cardiff had almost half their squad injured at one point and they still managed to finish above us. Our squad was ridiculously thin last season but we somehow got away with it.

Completely forgot about that head case Mollo. With him and Kamara in the same 11 we would be lucky to finish with 11. The day they build a psych evaluation into TKs computer thingy is the day I will support it.

Quote from: toshes mate on March 21, 2019, 01:32:58 PM
There was quite an entertaining, if not altogether enlightening, programme about data on BBC Four last night, which sought, among other things to show how it is possible to mathematically 'prove' that data processing can be made to fit any scenario we care to mention, especially because, for example, there are ganglia in our brains that are always involved in checking out reasoning and logic, disassembling and reassembling facts and experiences so that we can store them efficiently.  The processes of these nerve clusters appear to resemble the mathematics involved in disassembling and resolving data in information technology so that it can be properly understood and represented in digital/binary code leading to digital audio, digital video, and effectively digital data. 

What is stated right at the beginning of this process of understanding is that data is just 'stuff', a lot of it is never recorded anywhere, a lot of it is not understood, and a lot of it may be misinformation.  Stats is just another name for a record which can simply be anything written or drawn at any time past or present to record or note something.  The importance of it is another matter entirely.  As far as I can tell anyone can make a pencil mark on a piece of paper but making sense of what that pencil mark means is something entirely different.  The magic of 'stats' was known a very long time before clockwork, steam, and electricity made computers possible at some point in our future.  The problem we have in regards to TK is whether or not his computer system is better than anyone else's computer system and that will be forever moot.       

I reckon I could put together quite a few documentaries, or shows on how data has got things wrong or is misleading or harmful... This idea that data is a perfected craft is absurd. Analysis of data is a flawed process too.

Quote from: the nutflush on March 22, 2019, 11:36:28 PM

Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on March 21, 2019, 10:35:34 AM

Quote from: Milo on March 20, 2019, 07:42:11 PM
Hmm ok so responsibility for this season admitted. However, he claims previous 2 seasons his stats were a success.

Who did he bring in stats wise over the last two seasons on permanent signings?

Odoi has certainly been a good stats signing.
Kamara was, in my view, a good signing. However the end result is that his temperament has pushed him out on loan. So.. does that go down as minus points for a stats based model?
Kebano a luke warm signing on reflection.
Rui Fonte disastrous.
Others?

Other permanent transfers last season: Djalo, Cisse, Mollo, Christie. The rest were loans.

Our success last season was based on Mitro (thanks to Jokanovic), other loans from higher division clubs and players signed before TK was appointed DoF (plus a number of other titles). The players TK actually signed last season were short term solutions and failures. Even some of the loans were disasters, like Soares. An injured player on loan???

Blaming Mawsons injury must be the worst excuse ever. He was after all injured when TK signed him. And if injury to ONE CB is enough to ruin the season then TK has clearly failed to provide a decent squad. Everyone has known for several years now that we need CBs and more squad depth.

We can't expect to go through an entire season in the Championship again with hardly any injuries. We were almost unbelivably lucky with injuries last season. With the exception of Cairney and Ayite we had more or less a full squad available for the entire season. Cardiff had almost half their squad injured at one point and they still managed to finish above us. Our squad was ridiculously thin last season but we somehow got away with it.

Completely forgot about that head case Mollo. With him and Kamara in the same 11 we would be lucky to finish with 11. The day they build a psych evaluation into TKs computer thingy is the day I will support it.

When I first saw Mollo play, I thought he had potential, and was very tenacious and confident.
Then he was left out of the squad on occasions, and rumours were that he was a difficult person for a manager to control.
Then sometime last year three days before it was announced officially that he was being released by Fulham.
He was in Stringfellows Gentlemen's Club in midweek with friends, he was dressed outrageously to attract attention to himself and he was showing off and drawing attention to himself, even though I doubt anyone working or was a member or patron of the club knew who he was.
It was then that i realised and understood as to why Fulham FC were happy to see the back of him.

He also contradicts himself somewhat. On the one hand he talks up our promotion via the play-offs, saying this season should be balanced against that "success" last year. Then on the other hand he talks down the play-offs, saying clubs promoted that what are statistically likely to go straight back down.

You can't have it both ways Tony - you can't claim lots of credit for achieving something then talk that achievement  down when it starts to raise people's expectations.

Bottom line, it's blatantly obvious this man is just not as bright as he thinks he is.

Quote from: Statto on March 23, 2019, 12:38:28 AM
He also contradicts himself somewhat. On the one hand he talks up our promotion via the play-offs, saying this season should be balanced against that "success" last year. Then on the other hand he talks down the play-offs, saying clubs promoted that what are statistically likely to go straight back down.

You can't have it both ways Tony - you can't claim lots of credit for achieving something then talk that achievement  down when it starts to raise people's expectations.

Bottom line, it's blatantly obvious this man is just not as bright as he thinks he is.

If TK says "you cannot stay up with a playoff promotion" that great  :wine:, because logically that means he must have been planning for an automatic promotion in the season of 19/20 since 25th May 2018. Therefore, we obviously cannot be talking about releasing players in the summer and there must be a good budget for a heaps of loans to keep the bench strong. I don't even mind if it is a lie, as long as you maintain the lie and make it look like this what you planned that means "no sales of top players" and "no sales of reserves either".

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on March 23, 2019, 12:11:05 AM

Quote from: the nutflush on March 22, 2019, 11:36:28 PM

Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on March 21, 2019, 10:35:34 AM

Quote from: Milo on March 20, 2019, 07:42:11 PM
Hmm ok so responsibility for this season admitted. However, he claims previous 2 seasons his stats were a success.

Who did he bring in stats wise over the last two seasons on permanent signings?

Odoi has certainly been a good stats signing.
Kamara was, in my view, a good signing. However the end result is that his temperament has pushed him out on loan. So.. does that go down as minus points for a stats based model?
Kebano a luke warm signing on reflection.
Rui Fonte disastrous.
Others?

Other permanent transfers last season: Djalo, Cisse, Mollo, Christie. The rest were loans.

Our success last season was based on Mitro (thanks to Jokanovic), other loans from higher division clubs and players signed before TK was appointed DoF (plus a number of other titles). The players TK actually signed last season were short term solutions and failures. Even some of the loans were disasters, like Soares. An injured player on loan???

Blaming Mawsons injury must be the worst excuse ever. He was after all injured when TK signed him. And if injury to ONE CB is enough to ruin the season then TK has clearly failed to provide a decent squad. Everyone has known for several years now that we need CBs and more squad depth.

We can't expect to go through an entire season in the Championship again with hardly any injuries. We were almost unbelivably lucky with injuries last season. With the exception of Cairney and Ayite we had more or less a full squad available for the entire season. Cardiff had almost half their squad injured at one point and they still managed to finish above us. Our squad was ridiculously thin last season but we somehow got away with it.

Completely forgot about that head case Mollo. With him and Kamara in the same 11 we would be lucky to finish with 11. The day they build a psych evaluation into TKs computer thingy is the day I will support it.

When I first saw Mollo play, I thought he had potential, and was very tenacious and confident.
Then he was left out of the squad on occasions, and rumours were that he was a difficult person for a manager to control.
Then sometime last year three days before it was announced officially that he was being released by Fulham.
He was in Stringfellows Gentlemen's Club in midweek with friends, he was dressed outrageously to attract attention to himself and he was showing off and drawing attention to himself, even though I doubt anyone working or was a member or patron of the club knew who he was.
It was then that i realised and understood as to why Fulham FC were happy to see the back of him.

TKs computer is never going to pick up on personality traits like that. Just like Kamara. Might as well throw the machine out the window.

Quote from: the nutflush on March 23, 2019, 12:45:22 PM

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on March 23, 2019, 12:11:05 AM

When I first saw Mollo play, I thought he had potential, and was very tenacious and confident.
Then he was left out of the squad on occasions, and rumours were that he was a difficult person for a manager to control.
Then sometime last year three days before it was announced officially that he was being released by Fulham.
He was in Stringfellows Gentlemen's Club in midweek with friends, he was dressed outrageously to attract attention to himself and he was showing off and drawing attention to himself, even though I doubt anyone working or was a member or patron of the club knew who he was.
It was then that i realised and understood as to why Fulham FC were happy to see the back of him.

TKs computer is never going to pick up on personality traits like that. Just like Kamara. Might as well throw the machine out the window.

It a incredible great football scout that is able to say "avoid this player he'll end up at Stringfellows Gentlemen's Club midweek dressed outrageously" or "avoid this player as he may get violent during yoga relexation". Might as well throw the scouts out the window too, although not at FFC cause then there would be none left.

Quote from: The Rational Fan on March 23, 2019, 02:10:34 PM

Quote from: the nutflush on March 23, 2019, 12:45:22 PM

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on March 23, 2019, 12:11:05 AM

When I first saw Mollo play, I thought he had potential, and was very tenacious and confident.
Then he was left out of the squad on occasions, and rumours were that he was a difficult person for a manager to control.
Then sometime last year three days before it was announced officially that he was being released by Fulham.
He was in Stringfellows Gentlemen's Club in midweek with friends, he was dressed outrageously to attract attention to himself and he was showing off and drawing attention to himself, even though I doubt anyone working or was a member or patron of the club knew who he was.
It was then that i realised and understood as to why Fulham FC were happy to see the back of him.

TKs computer is never going to pick up on personality traits like that. Just like Kamara. Might as well throw the machine out the window.

It a incredible great football scout that is able to say "avoid this player he'll end up at Stringfellows Gentlemen's Club midweek dressed outrageously" or "avoid this player as he may get violent during yoga relexation". Might as well throw the scouts out the window too, although not at FFC cause then there would be none left.

No, I have made up my mind, just throw the Computer out of the window with TK strapped down firmly on it.