I think Mr T Khan should get some praise for signing Mr Anguissa.... let's hope he stays with us in the championship
I like Anguissa, he's a good player. But signing a good player for £30m isn't difficult. And no matter how well Anguissa is now playing, it's too late to stop us going down.
Had TK signed him for £10m and two months sooner then I'd agree, some credit would be due.
I guess it depends if he stays and performs well in the championship. If he does credit is due but if not it will go down as a bad signing.
So that's one good signing from last summer!well done TK!
Thought it interesting Everton's £50m signing Richarleson (?) did next to nothing on Saturday. Not fair to judge him on one game but crazy sums indeed.
I feel a poll coming on!!
Quote from: Statto on April 15, 2019, 08:14:18 PM
I like Anguissa, he's a good player. But signing a good player for £30m isn't difficult. And no matter how well Anguissa is now playing, it's too late to stop us going down.
Had TK signed him for £10m and two months sooner then I'd agree, some credit would be due.
Agreed, and one good game out of 20-30 doesn't warrant any credit due.
Quote from: The Rock on April 15, 2019, 08:30:22 PM
Quote from: Statto on April 15, 2019, 08:14:18 PM
I like Anguissa, he's a good player. But signing a good player for £30m isn't difficult. And no matter how well Anguissa is now playing, it's too late to stop us going down.
Had TK signed him for £10m and two months sooner then I'd agree, some credit would be due.
Agreed, and one good game out of 20-30 doesn't warrant any credit due.
I agree to agree.
A couple of decent games does not a good player make. He has been pants most games. Glad for the improvement
Hate the fiction regarding TK starting to suspiciously emerge all within a few hours.
Still doesn't look like he's worth 30 mill yet. In no circumstances should he be allowed to leave. These players owe us a season in the Championship
Quote from: ALG01 on April 15, 2019, 08:46:14 PM
A couple of decent games does not a good player make. He has been pants most games. Glad for the improvement
Hate the fiction regarding TK starting to suspiciously emerge all within a few hours.
What fiction?.... I don't understand
I like The Khans because they gives us what Fulham has always been about, totally uncertainty with possibilities of success or failure. Next Season, Tottenham will be between 3rd and 6th, Everton will be between 7th and 14th, Newcastle will be between 14th and 18th, Preston North End will be just below a playoff place, and in five years they could all be in the same position. When you support Fulham you don't know which league you will be in next season, Europe, Premier League, Championship, League One or League Two.
I hate the anti khan posts, always have. I dislike the revisionist view of the summer transfer window and the disproportionate blame that TK gets, yes the club got things wrong but like the success of last season wasn't all down to Slav the failures of this aren't all down to TK either
Quote from: snarks on April 16, 2019, 06:24:58 AM
I hate the anti khan posts, always have. I dislike the revisionist view of the summer transfer window and the disproportionate blame that TK gets, yes the club got things wrong but like the success of last season wasn't all down to Slav the failures of this aren't all down to TK either
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Quote from: snarks on April 16, 2019, 06:24:58 AM
I hate the anti khan posts, always have. I dislike the revisionist view of the summer transfer window and the disproportionate blame that TK gets, yes the club got things wrong but like the success of last season wasn't all down to Slav the failures of this aren't all down to TK either
I agree. And Zambo has been playing well last few games now. MOTM in 2. He didn't price himself at 30mil. He is still young and could be a bargain if he stays and helps get us promoted next season.
Don't see the need to even reference the Khans in this. He was a Europa league finalist last year, is ridiculously young and evidently talented, the money spent was probably inflated due to our desperation at time of signing and he fact they didn't need to sell. Despite this he was never going to come cheaply and there was a definite need for a perceived defensive mid, but a creative box to box potentially
He's played a few good games but for a price like that you expect consistency and to build a team around
. Instead he seems to have come good when the team have fallen apart .
Injury and suspension , and Ranieri haven't helped him but we need consistent performances so until he delivers that he can't be judged a success In my opinion
Quote from: Newry FFC on April 16, 2019, 10:25:51 AM
Don't see the need to even reference the Khans in this. He was a Europa league finalist last year, is ridiculously young and evidently talented, the money spent was probably inflated due to our desperation at time of signing and he fact they didn't need to sell. Despite this he was never going to come cheaply and there was a definite need for a perceived defensive mid, but a creative box to box potentially
He's played a few good games but for a price like that you expect consistency and to build a team around
. Instead he seems to have come good when the team have fallen apart .
Injury and suspension , and Ranieri haven't helped him but we need consistent performances so until he delivers that he can't be judged a success In my opinion
Agree with you.
Does Anguissa look like a £30m player? No, not yet. Was he money well spent? Apparently not given the Club has wasted all the hard work that achieving promotion added up to. Even a broken clock gets credit twice a day.
Not worth the price tag, and it has taken him a season to look ok - so praise...not quite.
However, I see something in him which I don't in Seri. I think he will be useful in the Championship
Funny about Anguissa, he has had a terrible season but suddenly in the last few game has started to look very promising, lets hope this improvement continues and that he stays with us for next season.
Not sure where to put the blame for all of this, Jocanovic and Ranieri for not getting the best out of him earlier.
Parker for giving him help and another chance.
The player for taking a long time to adjust.
Of course we all quickly blamed Khan for a bad Stats signing and we are not now going to admit that he made a good big money signing for us.
Yeah, signing a player for £30m+ that plays 7 games by the time you're relegated is a really special achievement - congratulations.
If we're going to credit those charged with recruitment for signing a player for £30m that will then be great in the Championship, we may be setting the bar a little low.
With my tongue out of my cheek, Zambo has the potential to be a good player, but was completely the wrong player at the wrong time for Fulham. He was a development player who would take time, and we didn't have that luxury. If he had gone to Everton or Newcastle and was playing Premier League football next year he could have been succesful. He's an example of the lack if wisdom in our approach to recruitment, which feels scatter-gun at best.
Agree with Mitch!
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on April 15, 2019, 09:03:52 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on April 15, 2019, 08:46:14 PM
A couple of decent games does not a good player make. He has been pants most games. Glad for the improvement
Hate the fiction regarding TK starting to suspiciously emerge all within a few hours.
What fiction?.... I don't understand
I will explain with pleasure.
After the watford game there was an obvious outpouring of grief and by and large TK was vilified for his transfers and what that meant. At that time I suggested that I wondered how long it might be before we saw an alternative narrative start to rumbble into life.
Well it started as soon as we beat everton. Suddenly on various forums and FB I noticed that there was an unusual number of posts in support of TK that had been totally missing until then, and most of them are fictitious in that they claim in as many words or rather more subtly, he has not really been such a failure after all.
This post is a case in point. Give TK credit for signing Anguissa...Ok let us suppose that all but the last forur games were an aboration and that Parker knows how to use him properly...OK maybe that is true and even if I am not yet impressed with the signing at least he has had arecently a few half decent games and good luck to him. But what TK has dione wrong is fail to sign a defence, or proper keepers, or a proper forward with pace or a leader on the field, or a genuinely tough central midfielder which were all absolutely necessary for premier league well being.
The posts that have appeared predominatly after the everton game in support of him fail to view the totality of what just happened, not just this but over a minimum of three seasons with a manager screaming that the signings were wrong or non existent. Tk has been the key to our failure this season and to suggest otherwise is no good for our future well being, that is the fiction.
If we do not continue as we are, with surgery to the approach taken by our leadership (not necesarilly in personnel but certainly in methodology), then we are in for a long barren spell again.
Hope that clears it up.
Quote from: ALG01 on April 16, 2019, 03:56:47 PM
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on April 15, 2019, 09:03:52 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on April 15, 2019, 08:46:14 PM
A couple of decent games does not a good player make. He has been pants most games. Glad for the improvement
Hate the fiction regarding TK starting to suspiciously emerge all within a few hours.
What fiction?.... I don't understand
I will explain with pleasure.
After the watford game there was an obvious outpouring of grief and by and large TK was vilified for his transfers and what that meant. At that time I suggested that I wondered how long it might be before we saw an alternative narrative start to rumbble into life.
Well it started as soon as we beat everton. Suddenly on various forums and FB I noticed that there was an unusual number of posts in support of TK that had been totally missing until then, and most of them are fictitious in that they claim in as many words or rather more subtly, he has not really been such a failure after all.
This post is a case in point. Give TK credit for signing Anguissa...Ok let us suppose that all but the last forur games were an aboration and that Parker knows how to use him properly...OK maybe that is true and even if I am not yet impressed with the signing at least he has had arecently a few half decent games and good luck to him. But what TK has dione wrong is fail to sign a defence, or proper keepers, or a proper forward with pace or a leader on the field, or a genuinely tough central midfielder which were all absolutely necessary for premier league well being.
The posts that have appeared predominatly after the everton game in support of him fail to view the totality of what just happened, not just this but over a minimum of three seasons with a manager screaming that the signings were wrong or non existent. Tk has been the key to our failure this season and to suggest otherwise is no good for our future well being, that is the fiction.
If we do not continue as we are, with surgery to the approach taken by our leadership (not necesarilly in personnel but certainly in methodology), then we are in for a long barren spell again.
Hope that clears it up.
I think you'll find it's not a fiction. It is a normal reaction , the TK villifiers are strongest when we lose or have a run of losses, as simply after we win a game and signings which TK has approved or supported or made the final decision on have played well those that don't think he's solely responsible will break cover to have their say.
It's interesting that you say we are due for a long barren spell again, I don't think say compared to Bolton or Wigan, that 4 years in the Championship and making the playoff's for 2 is a long barren spell. It may be if you're 12 at the time of relegation and 16 at promotion, but for those old enough to remember Division 4 it certainly isn't, and nor is it for anyone over 20.
Also the system that you now decry worked last year, so maybe not a radical re-approach but tweeks certainly. Methodology has certainly changed since CK was sacked by the club as to how we use the stats based approach. I seem to recall we recruited Wolves former head of stats to the recruitment team, so someone with knowledge of English Football has an input.
Also why should TK or Slav or Talbot or the stats man not get credit for Anguissa, he is a good player. I think that is beyond dispute, he hasn't played well for Fulham until the last few games, but there were glimpses earlier in the season just no consistency. He signed a keeper on the recommendation of Slav's goal keeping coach, one with champions league experience, he signed another in Rico with champions league experience. It looks like he listened. He signed Chambers who has played Champions League for Arsenal (albeit on loan) he signed Mawson who everyone expected to be fit sooner. He signed a dutch international in TFM. You now seem to say Mitro was a bad signing, due to his lack of pace, in a 4-3-3 he is the focal point Slav used to great effect the season before.
I go back to what I have said numerous times TK is not entirely to blame for this season, the same way Slav is not entirely responsible for the last.
So rather than clear it up, you have just given your view, which doesn't agree with mine.
Quote from: ALG01 on April 16, 2019, 03:56:47 PM
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on April 15, 2019, 09:03:52 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on April 15, 2019, 08:46:14 PM
A couple of decent games does not a good player make. He has been pants most games. Glad for the improvement
Hate the fiction regarding TK starting to suspiciously emerge all within a few hours.
What fiction?.... I don't understand
I will explain with pleasure.
After the watford game there was an obvious outpouring of grief and by and large TK was vilified for his transfers and what that meant. At that time I suggested that I wondered how long it might be before we saw an alternative narrative start to rumbble into life.
Well it started as soon as we beat everton. Suddenly on various forums and FB I noticed that there was an unusual number of posts in support of TK that had been totally missing until then, and most of them are fictitious in that they claim in as many words or rather more subtly, he has not really been such a failure after all.
This post is a case in point. Give TK credit for signing Anguissa...Ok let us suppose that all but the last forur games were an aboration and that Parker knows how to use him properly...OK maybe that is true and even if I am not yet impressed with the signing at least he has had arecently a few half decent games and good luck to him. But what TK has dione wrong is fail to sign a defence, or proper keepers, or a proper forward with pace or a leader on the field, or a genuinely tough central midfielder which were all absolutely necessary for premier league well being.
The posts that have appeared predominatly after the everton game in support of him fail to view the totality of what just happened, not just this but over a minimum of three seasons with a manager screaming that the signings were wrong or non existent. Tk has been the key to our failure this season and to suggest otherwise is no good for our future well being, that is the fiction.
If we do not continue as we are, with surgery to the approach taken by our leadership (not necesarilly in personnel but certainly in methodology), then we are in for a long barren spell again.
Hope that clears it up.
Yes that clears it up for me, well explained and realistic.
A win always makes a lot of difference to posts on forums and social media, and people will suddenly be more positive. Losing has the opposite effect.
Where are those who called for Slav's sacking in the Championship earlier in the season in which we got promoted?
Fans are fickle - a cliché, but true.
It's the feel good factor which hopefully will spread through the dressing room and the training ground since that epic confidence moral boosting win on Saturday v the Toffees.
Quote from: ALG01 on April 16, 2019, 03:56:47 PM
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on April 15, 2019, 09:03:52 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on April 15, 2019, 08:46:14 PM
A couple of decent games does not a good player make. He has been pants most games. Glad for the improvement
Hate the fiction regarding TK starting to suspiciously emerge all within a few hours.
What fiction?.... I don't understand
I will explain with pleasure.
After the watford game there was an obvious outpouring of grief and by and large TK was vilified for his transfers and what that meant. At that time I suggested that I wondered how long it might be before we saw an alternative narrative start to rumbble into life.
Well it started as soon as we beat everton. Suddenly on various forums and FB I noticed that there was an unusual number of posts in support of TK that had been totally missing until then, and most of them are fictitious in that they claim in as many words or rather more subtly, he has not really been such a failure after all.
This post is a case in point. Give TK credit for signing Anguissa...Ok let us suppose that all but the last forur games were an aboration and that Parker knows how to use him properly...OK maybe that is true and even if I am not yet impressed with the signing at least he has had arecently a few half decent games and good luck to him. But what TK has dione wrong is fail to sign a defence, or proper keepers, or a proper forward with pace or a leader on the field, or a genuinely tough central midfielder which were all absolutely necessary for premier league well being.
The posts that have appeared predominatly after the everton game in support of him fail to view the totality of what just happened, not just this but over a minimum of three seasons with a manager screaming that the signings were wrong or non existent. Tk has been the key to our failure this season and to suggest otherwise is no good for our future well being, that is the fiction.
If we do not continue as we are, with surgery to the approach taken by our leadership (not necesarilly in personnel but certainly in methodology), then we are in for a long barren spell again.
Hope that clears it up.
Still don't really understand.... I've been thinking Anguissa has been a good player & thought Mr T Khan had achieved something
Quote from: ALG01 on April 16, 2019, 03:56:47 PM
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on April 15, 2019, 09:03:52 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on April 15, 2019, 08:46:14 PM
A couple of decent games does not a good player make. He has been pants most games. Glad for the improvement
Hate the fiction regarding TK starting to suspiciously emerge all within a few hours.
What fiction?.... I don't understand
I will explain with pleasure.
After the watford game there was an obvious outpouring of grief and by and large TK was vilified for his transfers and what that meant. At that time I suggested that I wondered how long it might be before we saw an alternative narrative start to rumbble into life.
Well it started as soon as we beat everton. Suddenly on various forums and FB I noticed that there was an unusual number of posts in support of TK that had been totally missing until then, and most of them are fictitious in that they claim in as many words or rather more subtly, he has not really been such a failure after all.
This post is a case in point. Give TK credit for signing Anguissa...Ok let us suppose that all but the last forur games were an aboration and that Parker knows how to use him properly...OK maybe that is true and even if I am not yet impressed with the signing at least he has had arecently a few half decent games and good luck to him. But what TK has dione wrong is fail to sign a defence, or proper keepers, or a proper forward with pace or a leader on the field, or a genuinely tough central midfielder which were all absolutely necessary for premier league well being.
The posts that have appeared predominatly after the everton game in support of him fail to view the totality of what just happened, not just this but over a minimum of three seasons with a manager screaming that the signings were wrong or non existent. Tk has been the key to our failure this season and to suggest otherwise is no good for our future well being, that is the fiction.
If we do not continue as we are, with surgery to the approach taken by our leadership (not necesarilly in personnel but certainly in methodology), then we are in for a long barren spell again.
Hope that clears it up.
Since I am not entirely sure that I get the explanation in regards to your original post, may I just ask what is suspicious about those posts? I mean, I get that you have strong feelings about what is wrong within the club, and I get the feeling (rightly or wrongly) that you find it hard to believe that there may be many other posters with a different opinion. However it seem to me that you also presented a potential explanation, namely that we had just won a game, which could lead to people more inclined to post on a more positive note. Or do you mean to indicate that those are not "real" posts, but rather some sort of conspiracy. I am genuinely wondering if that is what you are implying, or if there was another reason for those posts to be suspicious?
Quote from: Sting of the North on April 16, 2019, 07:35:45 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on April 16, 2019, 03:56:47 PM
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on April 15, 2019, 09:03:52 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on April 15, 2019, 08:46:14 PM
A couple of decent games does not a good player make. He has been pants most games. Glad for the improvement
Hate the fiction regarding TK starting to suspiciously emerge all within a few hours.
What fiction?.... I don't understand
I will explain with pleasure.
After the watford game there was an obvious outpouring of grief and by and large TK was vilified for his transfers and what that meant. At that time I suggested that I wondered how long it might be before we saw an alternative narrative start to rumbble into life.
Well it started as soon as we beat everton. Suddenly on various forums and FB I noticed that there was an unusual number of posts in support of TK that had been totally missing until then, and most of them are fictitious in that they claim in as many words or rather more subtly, he has not really been such a failure after all.
This post is a case in point. Give TK credit for signing Anguissa...Ok let us suppose that all but the last forur games were an aboration and that Parker knows how to use him properly...OK maybe that is true and even if I am not yet impressed with the signing at least he has had arecently a few half decent games and good luck to him. But what TK has dione wrong is fail to sign a defence, or proper keepers, or a proper forward with pace or a leader on the field, or a genuinely tough central midfielder which were all absolutely necessary for premier league well being.
The posts that have appeared predominatly after the everton game in support of him fail to view the totality of what just happened, not just this but over a minimum of three seasons with a manager screaming that the signings were wrong or non existent. Tk has been the key to our failure this season and to suggest otherwise is no good for our future well being, that is the fiction.
If we do not continue as we are, with surgery to the approach taken by our leadership (not necesarilly in personnel but certainly in methodology), then we are in for a long barren spell again.
Hope that clears it up.
Since I am not entirely sure that I get the explanation in regards to your original post, may I just ask what is suspicious about those posts? I mean, I get that you have strong feelings about what is wrong within the club, and I get the feeling (rightly or wrongly) that you find it hard to believe that there may be many other posters with a different opinion. However it seem to me that you also presented a potential explanation, namely that we had just won a game, which could lead to people more inclined to post on a more positive note. Or do you mean to indicate that those are not "real" posts, but rather some sort of conspiracy. I am genuinely wondering if that is what you are implying, or if there was another reason for those posts to be suspicious?
Nope - still don't get it
I could also say the same about Kev Mac, Cairney, Stef Jo, Frederick's, keeping Sess, Mitro, Ayite etc....but as Anguissa is one of the most recent - I thought all season he's a good signing...... I'm not clever enough for any other reason
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on April 16, 2019, 07:59:38 PM
I could also say the same about Kev Mac, Cairney, Stef Jo, Frederick's, keeping Sess, Mitro, Ayite etc....but as Anguissa is one of the most recent - I thought all season he's a good signing...... I'm not clever enough for any other reason
But the only two of them signed by TK were Johansen and Ayite. I agree that for £3-4m, they were good signings and TK deserves credit. However that was the same window we spent most of our budget, about £13m, on Kebano, Jozabed and Sigurdsson, so it must be offset against them. And overall, throwing £20m at the transfer market and coming back with a couple of good Championship midfielders isn't particularly special.
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on April 16, 2019, 07:53:44 PM
Quote from: Sting of the North on April 16, 2019, 07:35:45 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on April 16, 2019, 03:56:47 PM
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on April 15, 2019, 09:03:52 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on April 15, 2019, 08:46:14 PM
A couple of decent games does not a good player make. He has been pants most games. Glad for the improvement
Hate the fiction regarding TK starting to suspiciously emerge all within a few hours.
What fiction?.... I don't understand
I will explain with pleasure.
After the watford game there was an obvious outpouring of grief and by and large TK was vilified for his transfers and what that meant. At that time I suggested that I wondered how long it might be before we saw an alternative narrative start to rumbble into life.
Well it started as soon as we beat everton. Suddenly on various forums and FB I noticed that there was an unusual number of posts in support of TK that had been totally missing until then, and most of them are fictitious in that they claim in as many words or rather more subtly, he has not really been such a failure after all.
This post is a case in point. Give TK credit for signing Anguissa...Ok let us suppose that all but the last forur games were an aboration and that Parker knows how to use him properly...OK maybe that is true and even if I am not yet impressed with the signing at least he has had arecently a few half decent games and good luck to him. But what TK has dione wrong is fail to sign a defence, or proper keepers, or a proper forward with pace or a leader on the field, or a genuinely tough central midfielder which were all absolutely necessary for premier league well being.
The posts that have appeared predominatly after the everton game in support of him fail to view the totality of what just happened, not just this but over a minimum of three seasons with a manager screaming that the signings were wrong or non existent. Tk has been the key to our failure this season and to suggest otherwise is no good for our future well being, that is the fiction.
If we do not continue as we are, with surgery to the approach taken by our leadership (not necesarilly in personnel but certainly in methodology), then we are in for a long barren spell again.
Hope that clears it up.
Since I am not entirely sure that I get the explanation in regards to your original post, may I just ask what is suspicious about those posts? I mean, I get that you have strong feelings about what is wrong within the club, and I get the feeling (rightly or wrongly) that you find it hard to believe that there may be many other posters with a different opinion. However it seem to me that you also presented a potential explanation, namely that we had just won a game, which could lead to people more inclined to post on a more positive note. Or do you mean to indicate that those are not "real" posts, but rather some sort of conspiracy. I am genuinely wondering if that is what you are implying, or if there was another reason for those posts to be suspicious?
Nope - still don't get it
Ok sorry, I am not sure what else to say except TK does not deserve any credit, his failings have seen us relegated.
The Khans performance is no different to 63% of teams that win the playoff place, we got relegated. I notice fans are accusing Tony Khan of not signing a keeper, accusations in this area couldn't be any more ridicous. We signed one keeper that was 2x Europa League Finalist that has played for Spain and another that had played Champions League and two times Turkish Siper Lig keeper of the year.
Right now, if Tony Khan signed Harry Kane and he played 38 games without scoring. I am sure TK would be accused of not signing a centre forward. The Khans maybe idiots but they are a danger to the Big Six Clubs, and Mike Ashley is smart but aiming to finish 10th-15th every season is not good for fans.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on April 16, 2019, 10:16:48 PM
The Khans performance is no different to 63% of teams that win the playoff place, we got relegated. I notice fans are accusing Tony Khan of not signing a keeper, accusations in this area couldn't be any more ridicous. We signed one keeper that was 2x Europa League Finalist that has played for Spain and another that had played Champions League and two times Turkish Siper Lig keeper of the year.
Right now, if Tony Khan signed Harry Kane and he played 38 games without scoring. I am sure TK would be accused of not signing a centre forward. The Khans maybe idiots but they are a danger to the Big Six Clubs, and Mike Ashley is smart but aiming to finish 10th-15th every season is not good for fans.
A danger to the big six clubs? What brand of Absinth due you drink?
On a humorous level, never touched the stuff. 🍻
Quote from: The Rational Fan on April 16, 2019, 10:16:48 PM
The Khans performance is no different to 63% of teams that win the playoff place, we got relegated. I notice fans are accusing Tony Khan of not signing a keeper, accusations in this area couldn't be any more ridicous. We signed one keeper that was 2x Europa League Finalist that has played for Spain and another that had played Champions League and two times Turkish Siper Lig keeper of the year.
Right now, if Tony Khan signed Harry Kane and he played 38 games without scoring. I am sure TK would be accused of not signing a centre forward. The Khans maybe idiots but they are a danger to the Big Six Clubs, and Mike Ashley is smart but aiming to finish 10th-15th every season is not good for fans.
Your argument is massively flawed as I am sure you must know. TK failed to sign a fit for purpose defence and two keepers that onm first viewing (fabri V celta Vigo was the foiirst time I saw him) it was obvious they were totally unsuited to british style football. Neither knows how to deal with a cross, both looked scared stiff when the ball is launched into a crowded box and that is just a fact. Anybody with an ounce of experience would never have got either of these two. The defence was not entirely fit for purpose ast season and this season it is worse. we signed llighweight midfielders of which we have a plethora and too many second rate loanees, although slav moving chambers to midfield was a masterstoke.
The DoF so called is entirely responsible for that shambles. And given he realised he was in error, and weall make mistakes, he should have attempted to fix it in January and he patently made no worthwhile effort. Nobody believes every signing works out, of course they do not. But failing to get a prem class defence which was most of our expectations was a massive failure. I can only repeat what many of us say, if TK was not his father's son he would have been out ages ago, actually he would never have been allowed anywhere near the position he occupies.
I honestly fail to understand how you continue to put up a defence for such a poor performance. in anby business that fails the leaders lack of capability is almost always the reason for failure. on a given day the players are responsible, but if they are the wrong players or not good enough then it is down to the leader, and the players we have are wrong AND not good enough. I wish i was rich enough to throw away £1,000,000 quite so spectacularly.
If you are correct and TK isn't so bad we will fly back up next season. I am not of that opinion.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on April 16, 2019, 10:16:48 PM
The Khans performance is no different to 63% of teams that win the playoff place, we got relegated. I notice fans are accusing Tony Khan of not signing a keeper, accusations in this area couldn't be any more ridicous. We signed one keeper that was 2x Europa League Finalist that has played for Spain and another that had played Champions League and two times Turkish Siper Lig keeper of the year.
Right now, if Tony Khan signed Harry Kane and he played 38 games without scoring. I am sure TK would be accused of not signing a centre forward. The Khans maybe idiots but they are a danger to the Big Six Clubs, and Mike Ashley is smart but aiming to finish 10th-15th every season is not good for fans.
Actually, you would find if you look closely that it is very rare that clubs get relegated as early as we did. There are different grades of failure, but FFC this year has sure been failing in an absolutely monumental manner since we didn't even manage to give ourselves a fighting chance during the last two months of the season. I think that if you look at how many clubs were relegated with 5 games to go, you'll find that it is not common at all and that we then belong to a much smaller percentage.
I think you are wrong on Kane, but I get your point. I don't think the players brought in overall was that bad. However, the timing of the transfers as well as the squad balance is not something that should be applauded at least (not saying that you are). Thing is also, when things go bad, the criticism overall tend to be very unbalanced. When things go as bad as they did this season, many find it difficult to see any reason whatsoever.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on April 16, 2019, 10:16:48 PM
The Khans performance is no different to 63% of teams that win the playoff place, we got relegated.
What % of them spent £100m?
Quote from: ALG01 on April 16, 2019, 09:24:34 PM
Ok sorry, I am not sure what else to say except TK does not deserve any credit, his failings have seen us relegated.
I disagree. There is no contradiction between giving credit to particular actions while at the same time being critical overall of the combined set of actions. As such, I see no reason why to not give credit if someone does anything well (from a general point of view, since I personally think that the jury is still out on Anguissa). What I do know is that an opinion is not fiction, since it is subjective and simply reflects a person's opinion (correct or not). The opinion may be based on incorrect facts, or illogical assumptions however.
Quote from: Sting of the North on April 16, 2019, 11:00:29 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on April 16, 2019, 09:24:34 PM
Ok sorry, I am not sure what else to say except TK does not deserve any credit, his failings have seen us relegated.
I disagree. There is no contradiction between giving credit to particular actions while at the same time being critical overall of the combined set of actions. As such, I see no reason why to not give credit if someone does anything well (from a general point of view, since I personally think that the jury is still out on Anguissa). What I do know is that an opinion is not fiction, since it is subjective and simply reflects a person's opinion (correct or not). The opinion may be based on incorrect facts, or illogical assumptions however.
I don't profess to being logical - just thought Anguissa is a good player.....£30m in football is peanut's....Mr Khan signed him.... honestly I'm not clever...just a football supporter.....sure, Mr Khan has made some strange decisions - and I can't agree with a lot of them
Quote from: The Rational Fan on April 16, 2019, 10:16:48 PM
I notice fans are accusing Tony Khan of not signing a keeper, accusations in this area couldn't be any more ridicous. We signed one keeper that was 2x Europa League Finalist that has played for Spain and another that had played Champions League and two times Turkish Siper Lig keeper of the year.
The fans who accuse the owners son of not signing a Goalkeeper are 100% correct. What is ridiculous is defending the indefensible.
You state what they have done and achieved in another country, but they could not do it in England in an English League because they are not good enough.
Their performances prove that.
It was yet another two error judgements in Fulhams floored recruitment operation.
Quote from: Statto on April 16, 2019, 10:35:31 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on April 16, 2019, 10:16:48 PM
The Khans performance is no different to 63% of teams that win the playoff place, we got relegated.
What % of them spent £100m?
Obviously Zero, so we must compare this years transfer spending to teams that spent a lot upon promotion. Like MAF that spent player inflation adjusted of £205m getting 44 points and two seasons QPR were promoted spent big. Most evidence suggests a 16% coorelation (ie not insignificant but not major either) with transfer spending of the immediate year and points.
The real test therefore will be whether FFC in the future and whether players earn their wages. Importantly, there is 92% correlation (ie massive) with wages and points so next season we will be number one in wages (if Cardiff goes down) and probably number two in wages (if Brighton goes down).
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on April 17, 2019, 05:14:58 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on April 16, 2019, 10:16:48 PM
I notice fans are accusing Tony Khan of not signing a keeper, accusations in this area couldn't be any more ridicous. We signed one keeper that was 2x Europa League Finalist that has played for Spain and another that had played Champions League and two times Turkish Siper Lig keeper of the year.
The fans who accuse the owners son of not signing a Goalkeeper are 100% correct. What is ridiculous is defending the indefensible.
You state what they have done and achieved in another country, but they could not do it in England in an English League because they are not good enough.
Their performances prove that.
It was yet another two error judgements in Fulhams floored recruitment operation.
That's just wrong. "He didn't sign a goalkeeper is 100% correct" when the 2 he did sign aren't good enough. That is some odd logic. You never know until they play in this country. Exactly De Gea had no more of a track record than Rico. So it didn't work it happens but to say he hasn't done something when he has is really a poor argument and is reinforcing your personal narrative not supported by facts
Quote from: snarks on April 17, 2019, 06:34:36 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on April 17, 2019, 05:14:58 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on April 16, 2019, 10:16:48 PM
I notice fans are accusing Tony Khan of not signing a keeper, accusations in this area couldn't be any more ridicous. We signed one keeper that was 2x Europa League Finalist that has played for Spain and another that had played Champions League and two times Turkish Siper Lig keeper of the year.
The fans who accuse the owners son of not signing a Goalkeeper are 100% correct. What is ridiculous is defending the indefensible.
You state what they have done and achieved in another country, but they could not do it in England in an English League because they are not good enough.
Their performances prove that.
It was yet another two error judgements in Fulhams floored recruitment operation.
That's just wrong. "He didn't sign a goalkeeper is 100% correct" when the 2 he did sign aren't good enough. That is some odd logic. You never know until they play in this country. Exactly De Gea had no more of a track record than Rico. So it didn't work it happens but to say he hasn't done something when he has is really a poor argument and is reinforcing your personal narrative not supported by facts
Sergio Rico and Fabri are not Goalkeepers according to you. Please define what is signing a goalkeeper? If Rico and Fabro are not goalkeepers, then is Betts, Rodak or Pickford?
Using this logic Mitrovoic wasn't a Centre Forward at Newcastle. I would note Leeds are vaguely rumoured to be interested in signing Fabri for the premier league next season. If Fabri plays as a premier league first choice goalkeeper next season and makes the PFA PL team of the year is he a goalkeeper?
Quote from: snarks on April 17, 2019, 06:34:36 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on April 17, 2019, 05:14:58 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on April 16, 2019, 10:16:48 PM
I notice fans are accusing Tony Khan of not signing a keeper, accusations in this area couldn't be any more ridicous. We signed one keeper that was 2x Europa League Finalist that has played for Spain and another that had played Champions League and two times Turkish Siper Lig keeper of the year.
The fans who accuse the owners son of not signing a Goalkeeper are 100% correct. What is ridiculous is defending the indefensible.
You state what they have done and achieved in another country, but they could not do it in England in an English League because they are not good enough.
Their performances prove that.
It was yet another two error judgements in Fulhams floored recruitment operation.
That's just wrong. "He didn't sign a goalkeeper is 100% correct" when the 2 he did sign aren't good enough. That is some odd logic. You never know until they play in this country. Exactly De Gea had no more of a track record than Rico. So it didn't work it happens but to say he hasn't done something when he has is really a poor argument and is reinforcing your personal narrative not supported by facts
But your corollary is equally flawed because all a club has to do is to sign a particular type of player, regardless of merit, potential, fitness for purpose, and that is it. Who could possibly need anyone other than a 'TK type' to do any of the business then?
And the argument about 'in this country' is just as equally empty of base logic. In the professional game the goals are the same size wherever you play; the game is the same game wherever you play; the rules are the same rules wherever you play. For sure the language may take a little time to pick up, but other than that, what is the problem for a professional sportsperson?
The whole business of trading players is to find a better fit for what you believe you need and for a goalkeeper that means less goals being scored against you. Fitting goalkeepers in should actually be easier than any other position.
Quote from: Statto on April 16, 2019, 10:35:31 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on April 16, 2019, 10:16:48 PM
The Khans performance is no different to 63% of teams that win the playoff place, we got relegated.
What % of them spent £100m?
...and who built a playoff team, rather than an automatic one? Despite going for broke in terms of expenditure, as it was the last year of parachute money.
If he's going to claim it was to be expected as we were playoff winners, then he should look at himself for not making an automatic promotion team.
Quote
And the argument about 'in this country' is just as equally empty of base logic. In the professional game the goals are the same size wherever you play; the game is the same game wherever you play; the rules are the same rules wherever you play. For sure the language may take a little time to pick up, but other than that, what is the problem for a professional sportsperson?
That's not true. Different countries, leagues, competitions see different styles of play. Some can be very different to others - someone used the example of Veron being fantastic in Italy where he had time on the ball, as the game is generally played at a slower pace, but at United he failed. Similarly, if Fulham didn't go up and a Premier League team signed KMac, they would have discovered the same thing - he is better suited to a slightly slower pace of the Championship. Joe Hart didn't suit Pep's requirements to be able to use the ball at his feet, so wasn't therefore suited to Pep's team (or anyone else's anymore it seems), whereas Ederson suits perfectly. Recruitment needs to consider how a player will fit into a league, country, team and tactics when signing from other leagues, and judge whether the players have the attributes and mental ability to adjust.
Quote from: Mitch on April 17, 2019, 09:13:16 AM
Quote
And the argument about 'in this country' is just as equally empty of base logic. In the professional game the goals are the same size wherever you play; the game is the same game wherever you play; the rules are the same rules wherever you play. For sure the language may take a little time to pick up, but other than that, what is the problem for a professional sportsperson?
That's not true. Different countries, leagues, competitions see different styles of play. Some can be very different to others - someone used the example of Veron being fantastic in Italy where he had time on the ball, as the game is generally played at a slower pace, but at United he failed. Similarly, if Fulham didn't go up and a Premier League team signed KMac, they would have discovered the same thing - he is better suited to a slightly slower pace of the Championship. Joe Hart didn't suit Pep's requirements to be able to use the ball at his feet, so wasn't therefore suited to Pep's team (or anyone else's anymore it seems), whereas Ederson suits perfectly. Recruitment needs to consider how a player will fit into a league, country, team and tactics when signing from other leagues, and judge whether the players have the attributes and mental ability to adjust.
It is true in the
context I presented it, just as it is true in the
context you present it. I never mentioned equal standards of ability because they are a given wherever you play in
context of wherever you play. Please take context into consideration because it is highly important to
all language.
Quote from: Mitch on April 17, 2019, 09:05:09 AM
Quote from: Statto on April 16, 2019, 10:35:31 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on April 16, 2019, 10:16:48 PM
The Khans performance is no different to 63% of teams that win the playoff place, we got relegated.
What % of them spent £100m?
...and who built a playoff team, rather than an automatic one? Despite going for broke in terms of expenditure, as it was the last year of parachute money.
If he's going to claim it was to be expected as we were playoff winners, then he should look at himself for not making an automatic promotion team.
Yes good point.
I must say I find myself agreeing with all your posts this last week or so
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on April 16, 2019, 11:22:36 PM
Quote from: Sting of the North on April 16, 2019, 11:00:29 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on April 16, 2019, 09:24:34 PM
Ok sorry, I am not sure what else to say except TK does not deserve any credit, his failings have seen us relegated.
I disagree. There is no contradiction between giving credit to particular actions while at the same time being critical overall of the combined set of actions. As such, I see no reason why to not give credit if someone does anything well (from a general point of view, since I personally think that the jury is still out on Anguissa). What I do know is that an opinion is not fiction, since it is subjective and simply reflects a person's opinion (correct or not). The opinion may be based on incorrect facts, or illogical assumptions however.
I don't profess to being logical - just thought Anguissa is a good player.....£30m in football is peanut's....Mr Khan signed him.... honestly I'm not clever...just a football supporter.....sure, Mr Khan has made some strange decisions - and I can't agree with a lot of them
In all honesty, yes i think what you have said is reasonable and I am certainly overreacting to everything at the moment because I still have an open wound that is hurting.
I see the man in question as totally responsibe so do not give him credit for anything. Maybe anguissa will turn out to be a star buy (not yet sure but recent form is encouraging under Parker) but failing to get a defence of the right quality and the two goalkeepers was and remains unforgiveable. A child would have known what was required.
My other beef at the moment is that up to the Everton game almost nobody had a good word for TK. Post a single win against a poor Everton the social media has quite an interesting number of people rushing to TKs defence.
I understand your point of view and hope the player in question really comes good for us next season.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on April 17, 2019, 07:02:23 AM
Quote from: snarks on April 17, 2019, 06:34:36 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on April 17, 2019, 05:14:58 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on April 16, 2019, 10:16:48 PM
I notice fans are accusing Tony Khan of not signing a keeper, accusations in this area couldn't be any more ridicous. We signed one keeper that was 2x Europa League Finalist that has played for Spain and another that had played Champions League and two times Turkish Siper Lig keeper of the year.
The fans who accuse the owners son of not signing a Goalkeeper are 100% correct. What is ridiculous is defending the indefensible.
You state what they have done and achieved in another country, but they could not do it in England in an English League because they are not good enough.
Their performances prove that.
It was yet another two error judgements in Fulhams floored recruitment operation.
That's just wrong. "He didn't sign a goalkeeper is 100% correct" when the 2 he did sign aren't good enough. That is some odd logic. You never know until they play in this country. Exactly De Gea had no more of a track record than Rico. So it didn't work it happens but to say he hasn't done something when he has is really a poor argument and is reinforcing your personal narrative not supported by facts
Sergio Rico and Fabri are not Goalkeepers according to you. Please define what is signing a goalkeeper? If Rico and Fabro are not goalkeepers, then is Betts, Rodak or Pickford?
Using this logic Mitrovoic wasn't a Centre Forward at Newcastle. I would note Leeds are vaguely rumoured to be interested in signing Fabri for the premier league next season. If Fabri plays as a premier league first choice goalkeeper next season and makes the PFA PL team of the year is he a goalkeeper?
I think I was saying they are goalkeeprs, woolley wasn't. At least that's what I meant to say, but it was 6.30 I'd just got in and my brain was a little "fuzzy"
Quote from: Mitch on April 17, 2019, 09:05:09 AM
Quote from: Statto on April 16, 2019, 10:35:31 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on April 16, 2019, 10:16:48 PM
The Khans performance is no different to 63% of teams that win the playoff place, we got relegated.
What % of them spent £100m?
...and who built a playoff team, rather than an automatic one? Despite going for broke in terms of expenditure, as it was the last year of parachute money.
If he's going to claim it was to be expected as we were playoff winners, then he should look at himself for not making an automatic promotion team.
I agree, it is partly Tony Khan's fault that we didn't get automatic promotion, but he did get us a playoff place that releases massive amounts of parchate payments.
There is no question that Wolves and Cardiff have made better decisions than Fulham, but that doesn't make him hopeless just not as good as his competitors.
But that isn't his point Rational. His point suggests that due to the way we went up, that this season then met expectations, or that relegation wasn't unlikely, based on that. Feels like strange reasoning when it was the recruitment team and DoF who built a playoff team rather than a Wolves style automatic one.
FWIW it's my opinion going up via the playoffs is great, if not the preferred - it's better than not at all. When you add the potential £ investment the owner was then willing to make in the t/fer market, the fact we came up in that way and the likelihood of relegation because of that should and could have been nullified.
That would have happened had the recruitment team and DoF have built a sustainable team not reliant on loans and then invested wisely with the treasure chest they were given.
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Quote from: Mitch on April 17, 2019, 12:25:11 PM
But that isn't his point Rational. His point suggests that due to the way we went up, that this season then met expectations, or that relegation wasn't unlikely, based on that. Feels like strange reasoning when it was the recruitment team and DoF who built a playoff team rather than a Wolves style automatic one.
FWIW it's my opinion going up via the playoffs is great, if not the preferred - it's better than not at all. When you add the potential £ investment the owner was then willing to make in the t/fer market, the fact we came up in that way and the likelihood of relegation because of that should and could have been nullified.
That would have happened had the recruitment team and DoF have built a sustainable team not reliant on loans and then invested wisely with the treasure chest they were given.
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This season was partly ruined by too many loan signing leaving and by requiring new signings to players in the early part of the season. None of that matters now, what matters is setting us up next season to be better than Wolves 17/18 and not making the same mistakes.
Next Season, we will have less loans than before and if we get promoted we should be able to start the season with existing players rather than needing to use new signings. We will be on paper one of the best teams on paper to ever play in the championship, it will be hard with such bad teamwork this season to be automatic promoted but pre-season has started super early so we should improve.
Yes, Rational, but all of that said - his point regards playoff winners statistically being likely to go down is an irrelevance, and by using it, it shows a pattern of our part-time DoF not taking responsibility for he and his teams errors. So whilst I agree it is time to look forward, it is definitely pertinent to discuss these issues, as they show us what we can expect going forwards and how our club and those who run it judge results of others work and their own.
I won't make predictions about next year and how well or not we are set up to do until we know exactly who is and isn't staying. A lot of time for agents to work their fingers into our squad. I do hope, based on what he said to the FST, that TK won't take the same route with loans.
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Quote from: The Rational Fan on April 17, 2019, 07:02:23 AM
Quote from: snarks on April 17, 2019, 06:34:36 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on April 17, 2019, 05:14:58 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on April 16, 2019, 10:16:48 PM
I notice fans are accusing Tony Khan of not signing a keeper, accusations in this area couldn't be any more ridicous. We signed one keeper that was 2x Europa League Finalist that has played for Spain and another that had played Champions League and two times Turkish Siper Lig keeper of the year.
The fans who accuse the owners son of not signing a Goalkeeper are 100% correct. What is ridiculous is defending the indefensible.
You state what they have done and achieved in another country, but they could not do it in England in an English League because they are not good enough.
Their performances prove that.
It was yet another two error judgements in Fulhams floored recruitment operation.
That's just wrong. "He didn't sign a goalkeeper is 100% correct" when the 2 he did sign aren't good enough. That is some odd logic. You never know until they play in this country. Exactly De Gea had no more of a track record than Rico. So it didn't work it happens but to say he hasn't done something when he has is really a poor argument and is reinforcing your personal narrative not supported by facts
Sergio Rico and Fabri are not Goalkeepers according to you. Please define what is signing a goalkeeper? If Rico and Fabro are not goalkeepers, then is Betts, Rodak or Pickford?
Using this logic Mitrovoic wasn't a Centre Forward at Newcastle. I would note Leeds are vaguely rumoured to be interested in signing Fabri for the premier league next season. If Fabri plays as a premier league first choice goalkeeper next season and makes the PFA PL team of the year is he a goalkeeper?
According to you it's All ifs and buts, what if this what if that, I did not know Leeds were already in the Premier.
The point you seem to have missed, and the point I was trying to make, is that no matter what he/they may have achieved elsewhere. They/he have not kept goal very well this season, and not by just the amount of goals that have been conceded, but the individual errors and mistakes, the mediocrity and lack of basics in keeping goal, but also the decision making with punching poorly as opposed to catching a simple cross, and don't get me on communication.
Quote from: Mitch on April 17, 2019, 02:01:35 PM
Yes, Rational, but all of that said - his point regards playoff winners statistically being likely to go down is an irrelevance, and by using it, it shows a pattern of our part-time DoF not taking responsibility for he and his teams errors. So whilst I agree it is time to look forward, it is definitely pertinent to discuss these issues, as they show us what we can expect going forwards and how our club and those who run it judge results of others work and their own.
I won't make predictions about next year and how well or not we are set up to do until we know exactly who is and isn't staying. A lot of time for agents to work their fingers into our squad. I do hope, based on what he said to the FST, that TK won't take the same route with loans.
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Last time we went down only three players had two years left on their contracts during the relegation season.
This time we have 15 players with two years on their contract (3xGKs Fabri, Betts, Rodak, 6xDFs Christie, S.Sessegnon, Mawson, Ream, MLM, Bryan, 5xMFs Cisse, McDonald, Anguissa, Seri, Cairney, 2xFWs Kamara and Mitro)
In addition, we have 9 players with one year contracts available to Fulham including 2xDF Fossey, Odoi, 2xMF Edun, Johasen, 5xFW R.Sessegnon, Torres, Atyie, Kebano and Fonte. In an Ideal world we would add to the squad Sabaly, Kalas, Piazon, Markovoic and Babel in exchange for Sessegnon.
Rational, that all sounds good, but I just don't want to predict anything or pin my hopes on anything just yet. It's better than last time we went down (And so it should be - we have to learn lessons from that mess), on the face of it, but I'm too long in the tooth to get carried away just yet. None of that is criticism of anyone - it's just too early to say.
But as I said, the question was about credit. My point was regards TK's comments about likelihood of relegation, not as to how well equipped we are now it has happened.
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Quote from: Mitch on April 17, 2019, 02:33:44 PM
Rational, that all sounds good, but I just don't want to predict anything or pin my hopes on anything just yet. It's better than last time we went down (And so it should be - we have to learn lessons from that mess), on the face of it, but I'm too long in the tooth to get carried away just yet. None of that is criticism of anyone - it's just too early to say.
But as I said, the question was about credit. My point was regards TK's comments about likelihood of relegation, not as to how well equipped we are now it has happened.
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If the comments worry you, remember sons of american billionaire tend to have foot in mouth disease a lot. Fred Trump son is a better example of a billionaire sons that keeps saying the wrong thing, and his son has about the same experience in his current job as Tony Khan.
Quote from: Mitch on April 17, 2019, 02:33:44 PM
Rational, that all sounds good, but I just don't want to predict anything or pin my hopes on anything just yet. It's better than last time we went down (And so it should be - we have to learn lessons from that mess), on the face of it, but I'm too long in the tooth to get carried away just yet. None of that is criticism of anyone - it's just too early to say.
But as I said, the question was about credit. My point was regards TK's comments about likelihood of relegation, not as to how well equipped we are now it has happened.
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This is a very sensible comment. If rumors are true about relegation clauses reducing wages etc. it indicates that they may have learnt something from last time around, and in a sense that should receive some credit. However, the fact that we may be decently equipped to have a good shout of promotion next year doesn't cover the fact that the most important goal of the season (staying in the PL) was not even close to being achieved. I would be very surprised if that was not the main goal with our acquisitions. If we had given it a decent try, it could at least be argued that it was not all bad since it was always going to be somewhat difficult (or at least not very easy) to achieve that goal given the amount of new players needed. However, we didn't give if a decent try for whatever reason. For that management deserves a fair amount of criticism, since whatever you perceive to be the reasons for our failure management has the most responsibility. If the coaches and players are deemed not good enough, than that is ultimately the responsibility of those in charge.
However, I agree that the acquisitions can not solely be judged by how the players have performed since it is all connected. One bad thing tend to lead to another, and I find it difficult to say with certainty that we never stood a chance with the squad we had.
Quote from: Sting of the North on April 17, 2019, 03:06:22 PM
If rumors are true about relegation clauses reducing wages etc. it indicates that they may have learnt something from last time around, and in a sense that should receive some credit. However, the fact that we may be decently equipped to have a good shout of promotion next year doesn't cover the fact that the most important goal of the season (staying in the PL) was not even close to being achieved. I would be very surprised if that was not the main goal with our acquisitions.
While loan signings job is to keep us up, permanent signing are to ensure we are in the premier league by the end of our contract. Granted get relegated wasn't the plan, but given only 7 teams haven't been relegated in the last eight years. Tony Khans plan should involve a relegation at some point and coming back up must be a plan. TK relegation clauses if true proves he has planed to bounce like WBA did three times a decade ago. Mitrovoic, Anguiisaa and Bryan are great signings to get back up.
When Shahid Khan took over he said he thought FFC could do things better, and it seems part of that was longer term view on signings. Tottenham are talking about signing both Sessegnons and neither might start next season, but are still excellent buys at the right price.
If the news about the relegation clauses are correct, we are not in just a good position next season but also the season after to get promoted. I doubt we can keep Ryan Sessegnon, but if can reinvest all his transfer fee into the team wow. Our team against Everton is better than any in the Championship, and I think Fabri/Betts, Christie/Odoi, McDonald/ Johasen/Seri can cover the players lost not in the forward line. For me, the biggest issues next season are the forward line and their backups.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on April 17, 2019, 10:50:44 PM
Quote from: Sting of the North on April 17, 2019, 03:06:22 PM
If rumors are true about relegation clauses reducing wages etc. it indicates that they may have learnt something from last time around, and in a sense that should receive some credit. However, the fact that we may be decently equipped to have a good shout of promotion next year doesn't cover the fact that the most important goal of the season (staying in the PL) was not even close to being achieved. I would be very surprised if that was not the main goal with our acquisitions.
While loan signings job is to keep us up, permanent signing are to ensure we are in the premier league by the end of our contract. Granted get relegated wasn't the plan, but given only 7 teams haven't been relegated in the last eight years. Tony Khans plan should involve a relegation at some point and coming back up must be a plan. TK relegation clauses if true proves he has planed to bounce like WBA did three times a decade ago. Mitrovoic, Anguiisaa and Bryan are great signings to get back up.
When Shahid Khan took over he said he thought FFC could do things better, and it seems part of that was longer term view on signings. Tottenham are talking about signing both Sessegnons and neither might start next season, but are still excellent buys at the right price.
If the news about the relegation clauses are correct, we are not in just a good position next season but also the season after to get promoted. I doubt we can keep Ryan Sessegnon, but if can reinvest all his transfer fee into the team wow. Our team against Everton is better than any in the Championship, and I think Fabri/Betts, Christie/Odoi, McDonald/ Johasen/Seri can cover the players lost not in the forward line. For me, the biggest issues next season are the forward line and their backups.
Just because you take action to mitigate a potential relegation does not equal that it was in TK's plan that we would get relegated at some point. Of course that was not the plan. And of course the signings were made primarily with this season in mind. There is no contradiction between that and having a back up plan, but it doesn't change the fact that this season was a resounding failure.
Hopefully though, next season can be a good one, but there is quite some distance to go before we even know what the squad will look like. I do agree that we are in a strong position squad wise, with many cards at least seemingly in the hands of the club.
Who manages contracts? Ali Mac? Any clauses pertaining to relegation should be standard, not strokes of genius. That said if you credit anyone for that, it's likely Ali.
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Quote from: Mitch on April 18, 2019, 10:18:18 AM
Who manages contracts? Ali Mac? Any clauses pertaining to relegation should be standard, not strokes of genius. That said if you credit anyone for that, it's likely Ali.
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I think the credit would be more in the overall strategy of getting fairly young players in on long contracts that still will hopefully not cripple the club economically (for example through relegation clauses). In other words, signings not only for the immediate needs, but also for the future. This is much opposed to what we had last time we were relegated.
Fair point that re the age of players. Hasn't considered that within that context. Recruitment team and DoF got it right aiming for' younger' players.
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Quote from: Mitch on April 18, 2019, 10:33:15 AM
Fair point that re the age of players. Hasn't considered that within that context. Recruitment team and DoF got it right aiming for' younger' players.
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Yes, if they follow it up by keeping most of those players, so that the squad disruption is kept to a minimum (since I hope that the main goal is still to be relatively competitive, meaning promotion push next season). Jury's still out, but it's not necessarily all bad for the future.
Quote from: Sting of the North on April 18, 2019, 10:37:18 AM
Quote from: Mitch on April 18, 2019, 10:33:15 AM
Fair point that re the age of players. Hasn't considered that within that context. Recruitment team and DoF got it right aiming for' younger' players.
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Yes, if they follow it up by keeping most of those players, so that the squad disruption is kept to a minimum (since I hope that the main goal is still to be relatively competitive, meaning promotion push next season). Jury's still out, but it's not necessarily all bad for the future.
Well, in terms of this thread, no the jury is in and the recruitment team messed up hugely.
In terms of nezt season and whether we have a team who can compete in the Championship - that's a whole other question and it's too early to tell.
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