With Sess set to leave,and now Cody Drameh looks like he off to Germany, and the rumours that Harvey will go as well,its rather frustrating that were producing these kids and losing them still in their teens.😟
I was just thinking the same thing, I wonder if its a case of money. I know for Roberts and Dembele they both wanted more than we were prepared to offer. That and with it being a short career maybe our youngsters think they are best served cashing in whilst they can.
That and they often move to traditionally bigger clubs than Fulham.
So I don't know but I share your frustrations, especially as we have a track record for actually playing youngsters.
Who was that kid went to Everton, couple of seasons ago?
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on June 13, 2019, 10:41:51 AM
Who was that kid went to Everton, couple of seasons ago?
Dennis Adeniran
They get poached now for peanuts before they can command a fee - the problem is the system that lets this happen.
Quote from: The Enclosurite on June 13, 2019, 11:00:54 AM
They get poached now for peanuts before they can command a fee - the problem is the system that lets this happen.
Said this on another thread sometime back, So whats the point in training them up if you lose them for nothing. System is wrong.
Fulham teenager Cody Drameh set to have medical a Eintracht Frankfurt ahead of proposed move.
Where are we going wrong? At least Southampton got top dollar for their jewels
Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on June 13, 2019, 10:48:09 AM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on June 13, 2019, 10:41:51 AM
Who was that kid went to Everton, couple of seasons ago?
Dennis Adeniran
At least we got a decent fee for him. Around £4m I think was reported at the time.
In my ignorance where is Denis Adeniran now?
With youngsters in general you get the minority who are loyal and the majority who go for the money and the glamour of the big clubs.(plus big bung unofficial payments for their parents!)
Agents are as responsible for this as anyone.
If you read the gossip columns our bigs six or seven clubs are constantly in the market to hoover up any youngster who is any good and in time that will ruin the game.
Emerson Hyndman left for Bournemouth rather than stay.
That was on the advice of the USA coach before his last season had even started so what chance had we of negotiating a contract.
Quote from: Fernhurst on June 13, 2019, 11:20:43 AM
Fulham teenager Cody Drameh set to have medical a Eintracht Frankfurt ahead of proposed move.
Where are we going wrong? At least Southampton got top dollar for their jewels
Teams home and abroad have wised up now, they move for the kids before their first contract so they get them a lot cheaper. Southampton would not get nowadays what they used to get
Quote from: Stoneleigh Loyalist on June 13, 2019, 11:44:06 AM
In my ignorance where is Denis Adeniran now?
With youngsters in general you get the minority who are loyal and the majority who go for the money and the glamour of the big clubs.(plus big bung unofficial payments for their parents!)
Agents are as responsible for this as anyone.
If you read the gossip columns our bigs six or seven clubs are constantly in the market to hoover up any youngster who is any good and in time that will ruin football.
Having a senior moment but who was our American lad who went to Bournemouth or Southampton a couple of years ago.
That was on the advice of the USA coach before his last season had started so what chance had we of negotiating a contract.
It was Bournemouth and his name was Emerson Hyderman
Thank you. Note my crafty amendment in my original post.
Quote from: Stoneleigh Loyalist on June 13, 2019, 11:53:34 AM
Thank you. Note my crafty amendment in my original post.
Oh yes..... Last time I saw Hyndman he was weaving between the chemical toilets adjacent to a 3G training pitch AFC Bournemouth use in the back of beyond.
Thought he might have been off back to USA this season.
Dennis Emmanuel Abiodun Bamidele Chijoke Adeniran is an English professional footballer who plays as a midfielder for Everton
Emerson Hyndman
Season Date Left Joined MV Fee
18/19 Jan 1, 2019 Hibernian FC Scotland Hibernian FC AFC Bournemouth England Bournemouth 1,00 Mill. € End of loan
18/19 Aug 8, 2018 AFC Bournemouth England Bournemouth Hibernian FC Scotland Hibernian FC 1,00 Mill. € Loan
16/17 May 9, 2017 Rangers FC Scotland Rangers AFC Bournemouth England Bournemouth 1,00 Mill. € End of loan
16/17 Jan 8, 2017 AFC Bournemouth England Bournemouth Rangers FC Scotland Rangers 1,00 Mill. € Loan
16/17 Jul 1, 2016 Fulham FC England Fulham AFC Bournemouth England Bournemouth 750 Th. € Free Transfer
14/15 Jul 1, 2014 Fulham FC U18 England Fulham U18 Fulham FC England Fulham - -
12/13 Jul 1, 2012 Fulham FC Youth England Fulham Youth Fulham FC U18 England Fulham U18 - -
11/12 Jul 1, 2011 FC Dallas Academy United States Dallas Academy Fulham FC Youth England Fulham Youth
To be fair, FFC are pretty sharp in the poaching kids department, most recently highlighted in getting that lad from Hartlepool.
The "big" clubs sign as many kids as they can, not with the intention of bringing them on eventually into their 1st team squad, but to loan them out in the hope that they make the grade to increase their value. They then sell them on & the money goes to fund their £100 mil signings.
In my mind it is totally wrong as the kids never get an identity with their parent club. One or two may make it but for every one that does 10 or more are never seen again.
There must be a cap on the number of players a club can have out on loan. 20 -30 is not realistic or fair.
Its widely known that Ali Mac doesn't allow youngsters who refuse to switch to a Fulham preferred agent to play for the first team. This is partly why some are choosing to leave, Matt O'reilly is by far and away our most talented prospect, even above Harvey Elliot, he won't feature for our first team because he won't switch his agent.
I imagine with Drameh its a similar story, frankfurt are hardly offering the bright lights and wage, they are just offering a realistic chance at game time once he's ready.
Quote from: Chutney on June 13, 2019, 12:43:07 PM
Its widely known that Ali Mac doesn't allow youngsters who refuse to switch to a Fulham preferred agent to play for the first team. This is partly why some are choosing to leave, Matt O'reilly is by far and away our most talented prospect, even above Harvey Elliot, he won't feature for our first team because he won't switch his agent.
I imagine with Drameh its a similar story, frankfurt are hardly offering the bright lights and wage, they are just offering a realistic chance at game time once he's ready.
Really? That seems highly unlikely. What manager would tolerate that and if you're the owner you risk losing these kids even sooner because no matter how talented they are their development and path to the first team is blocked for non footballing reasons. If this is true then it is scandalous.
Can´t be that widely known as I havn´t seen any statement from the Club.
Well if this is becoming "the norm" snatching youth players before they sign contracts where is it going to end?
If the kid is not signed I figure an illegal approach does not apply?
Ten year old parents getting a new house?
Time the FA had a look at this and considered ways of improving situation.
Quote from: Robertprocter1 on June 13, 2019, 10:35:28 AM
So I don't know but I share your frustrations, especially as we have a track record for actually playing youngsters.
Last season we gave a massive 18 minutes to Elliot, otherwise the the only youngster who played was Sess. The season before it was similar, 150 minutes split between all academy players other than Sess. Season before that, around 200 minutes if we are counting LVC and Woodrow as youngsters.
Quote from: Tabby on June 13, 2019, 01:33:19 PM
Quote from: Robertprocter1 on June 13, 2019, 10:35:28 AM
So I don't know but I share your frustrations, especially as we have a track record for actually playing youngsters.
Last season we gave a massive 18 minutes to Elliot, otherwise the the only youngster who played was Sess. The season before it was similar, 150 minutes split between all academy players other than Sess. Season before that, around 200 minutes if we are counting LVC and Woodrow as youngsters.
I think that's more a statement about the players than the club. if they are good enough, they will play. Sadly that's the truth of it. Players who have left haven't had much game time so it is what it is.
Quote from: FFC1987 on June 13, 2019, 02:17:52 PM
Quote from: Tabby on June 13, 2019, 01:33:19 PM
Quote from: Robertprocter1 on June 13, 2019, 10:35:28 AM
So I don't know but I share your frustrations, especially as we have a track record for actually playing youngsters.
Last season we gave a massive 18 minutes to Elliot, otherwise the the only youngster who played was Sess. The season before it was similar, 150 minutes split between all academy players other than Sess. Season before that, around 200 minutes if we are counting LVC and Woodrow as youngsters.
I think that's more a statement about the players than the club. if they are good enough, they will play. Sadly that's the truth of it. Players who have left haven't had much game time so it is what it is.
and those that left were probably considered our "golden generation" of youths, the current crop are a step down to start with
Quote from: TommyFFCGun on June 13, 2019, 12:46:41 PM
Quote from: Chutney on June 13, 2019, 12:43:07 PM
Its widely known that Ali Mac doesn't allow youngsters who refuse to switch to a Fulham preferred agent to play for the first team. This is partly why some are choosing to leave, Matt O'reilly is by far and away our most talented prospect, even above Harvey Elliot, he won't feature for our first team because he won't switch his agent.
I imagine with Drameh its a similar story, frankfurt are hardly offering the bright lights and wage, they are just offering a realistic chance at game time once he's ready.
Really? That seems highly unlikely. What manager would tolerate that and if you're the owner you risk losing these kids even sooner because no matter how talented they are their development and path to the first team is blocked for non footballing reasons. If this is true then it is scandalous.
Unfortunately its the truth. We are rotten behind the scenes currently.
Quote from: grandad on June 13, 2019, 12:54:33 PM
Can´t be that widely known as I havn´t seen any statement from the Club.
There is absolutely no chance the club would come clean and publicly admit to this policy, but its unfortunately true.
Quote from: Chutney on June 13, 2019, 02:27:21 PM
Quote from: grandad on June 13, 2019, 12:54:33 PM
Can´t be that widely known as I havn´t seen any statement from the Club.
There is absolutely no chance the club would come clean and publicly admit to this policy, but its unfortunately true.
I can't say 100% whether that's true or not but I recall a story concerning a few of our youngsters who left and it being suggested this was a reason.
Quote from: FFC1987 on June 13, 2019, 02:17:52 PM
Quote from: Tabby on June 13, 2019, 01:33:19 PM
Quote from: Robertprocter1 on June 13, 2019, 10:35:28 AM
So I don't know but I share your frustrations, especially as we have a track record for actually playing youngsters.
Last season we gave a massive 18 minutes to Elliot, otherwise the the only youngster who played was Sess. The season before it was similar, 150 minutes split between all academy players other than Sess. Season before that, around 200 minutes if we are counting LVC and Woodrow as youngsters.
I think that's more a statement about the players than the club. if they are good enough, they will play. Sadly that's the truth of it. Players who have left haven't had much game time so it is what it is.
I don't think you can blame the youth players like Cody Drameh for leaving then.
Quote from: Tabby on June 13, 2019, 04:35:22 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on June 13, 2019, 02:17:52 PM
Quote from: Tabby on June 13, 2019, 01:33:19 PM
Quote from: Robertprocter1 on June 13, 2019, 10:35:28 AM
So I don't know but I share your frustrations, especially as we have a track record for actually playing youngsters.
Last season we gave a massive 18 minutes to Elliot, otherwise the the only youngster who played was Sess. The season before it was similar, 150 minutes split between all academy players other than Sess. Season before that, around 200 minutes if we are counting LVC and Woodrow as youngsters.
I think that's more a statement about the players than the club. if they are good enough, they will play. Sadly that's the truth of it. Players who have left haven't had much game time so it is what it is.
I don't think you can blame the youth players like Cody Drameh for leaving then.
I don't.
I just hope it is not the thoughts and beliefs of T Khan that are responsible for them all moving. What is the point of having a youth set up then? I was looking forward to possibly seeing S Sess, Elliot an O'Riley come thought this season this season.
092.gif
My understanding is that the sale abroad, most recently Germany, is particularly bad. They don't face the risk of a tribunal fee and will therefore bid even lower...
The domestic clubs, Everton most recently, will at least give some level of fee...
Quote from: Chutney on June 13, 2019, 02:27:21 PM
Quote from: grandad on June 13, 2019, 12:54:33 PM
Can´t be that widely known as I havn´t seen any statement from the Club.
There is absolutely no chance the club would come clean and publicly admit to this policy, but its unfortunately true.
So, Ali Mac has authority over the manager when it comes to picking the team?
Surely it all has to do with the cost of running the academy, including scouting for youngsters against the income generated
from either sales or benefits to the first team and the club, on a short or long term.
I have no idea what the academy costs but let's say
2-5 million per year.
If we can bring through 'gems' such as Moussa 1, Smalling, Sess twins, Roberts, Aderninan, Saha, (maybe Drameh, Ellliot and O'Reilly)
and the sales vs expenditure is higher then that's good business, because that's all it is.
Overheads vs sales = profit.
It's no different to owning a house,
Income = X
Mortgage, maintenance, taxes etc etc = y
Estimated value increase = Z
Cost of alternative rental (dead money)
blah blah blah
Whatever the outcome of these equations is, defines whether the botom line is
a/. Favourable to the club
b/. A loss leader
c/. A taxable deduction
d/. An owners plaything (not so in Mr Khans case, I believe)
Let no one be under the illusion that the club is doing any of these kids a favour, it is not a charity.
Where it all goes to pot is vast sums of money spunked up the wall.
It doesn't matter how many replica shirts, programs, hot dogs, we sell.
We can blow away any of the profits from the academy by payouts to 'sacked managers'
or donkey signings.
Although it does seem we screwed the Cheese Man
Well, I guess the reasons we are losing our kids should be pretty obvious to Tony Khan, because i'm sure the parents, agents or players tell them. And, I guess the solutions would also be pretty obvious i) more opportunities, ii) better coaches, iii) better training facilities and iv) higher wages.
The only question is will these players would deliver value (or command a transfer fee) that makes it worth the money that is required to keep them.
"Why Are We Losing Our Kids?" the main Possible Reasons:
1. Lack of Opportunities in 1st Team. Analysis: most of the kids seem to move to teams with even less opportunities so i'd discount this.
2. Coaching Staff not good enough. Analysis: no one seems to suggest this as a problem, but if we can find a great academy coach that would help.
3. Training Facilities not good enough. Analysis: the club seems to be planning to spend on training facilities so this will be less of a problem.
4. Contracts Offered not good enough. I suspect this is the major problem, but no point wasting money unless their is sufficient reward for Fulham.
Can anyone think of any other possible reasons?
Personally, I suspect once (or if) we are an established Premier League Team, bringing players thought the ranks maybe part of the Khan's Plan, but right now any pound that counts for FFP spending needs to be spent to maximise Fulham's promotion push.
Quote from: Fernhurst on June 13, 2019, 01:07:48 PM
Well if this is becoming "the norm" snatching youth players before they sign contracts where is it going to end?
If the kid is not signed I figure an illegal approach does not apply?
Ten year old parents getting a new house?
Time the FA had a look at this and considered ways of improving situation.
For players under 18, the problem is that players can get out of contracts they regret. Only English Law can fix that not the FA.
For players over 18, the problem is younger players wages are often high due to their potential and they count to the FFP spending.
The Khans have shown that they are prepared to put money into the club, so I don't see why our youth system which has gained such plaudits in the recent past, with a reputation for bringing on young players, has now become 'rotten behind the scenes', with progress to the first team blocked.
I think the recent failure of the first team has led to any problems, there might be, with our best youngsters not prepared to wait for a chance to get into a poorly performing first team, and seeking better elsewhere.
Quote from: RaySmith on June 14, 2019, 07:08:04 AM
The Khans have shown that they are prepared to put money into the club, so I don't see why our youth system which has gained such plaudits in the recent past, with a reputation for bringing on young players, has now become 'rotten behind the scenes', with progress to the first team blocked.
I think the recent failure of the first team has led to any problems, there might be, with our best youngsters not prepared to wait for a chance to get into a poorly performing first team, and seeking better elsewhere.
If I was Tony Khan and had some kid complaining about Denis Odoi blocking his path to premier league football, I wouldn't be building the future around such a player.
I wasn't saying it good thing that young players might feel more inclined to leave after relegation, just that this maybe a reason for young talent being more inclined to leave - if this is true.
Our faulure in the Prem after a period of such success, must lead to some demoralisation around the club generally, though if the, optimistic seeming, Parker gets good results and we are doing well, there will generally be more positivity around club and fans .
Quote from: RaySmith on June 14, 2019, 07:41:49 AM
I wasn't saying it good thing that young players might feel more inclined to leave after relegation, just that this maybe a reason for young talent being more inclined to leave - if this is true.
Our faulure in the Prem after a period of such success, must lead to some demoralisation around the club generally, though if the, optimistic seeming, Parker gets good results and we are doing well, there will generally be more positivity around club and fans .
Maybe, the reason these kids path has been blocked to the first team by Denis Odoi is "these kids just aren't very good". I couldn't imagine Paul Parker's path to the first team being blocked by our current established right-backs.
I don't think it's true that young players have been blocked.
If they are good enough they will get their chance, but I think there is an awareness at the club about putting young players in the spotlight too early, especially post-Magath maybe.
It is the 'overall' manner a football club is run that determines and influences minds, both young and old, with attention, stability, perception of outlook, and consistency being factors that attract youth. People, young and old, can take hard punches when they know either they can fight or there is a fighter leading their fight back. Fulham lack that charismatic character in their upper echelons. Lower down we may have a fighter in SP if he can tame the beast of his role as head coach but what if he is thwarted in the same manner as Jokanovic was? FFC appeared not to know what it was doing from the end of May through the whole of last season - leaderless, rudderless, with a complete prat contributing to most of what went wrong. The prat knows who he is.
Sean Davis, Patrick Roberts, Dembele and Ryan Sess. are the only youths I can remember us producing in the last twenty years or so that have made the grade in top class football and Sean Davis was pre academy. Something is not working, we should take a closer look at Southampton perhaps.
Quote from: filham on June 14, 2019, 11:38:30 AM
Sean Davis, Patrick Roberts, Dembele and Ryan Sess. are the only youths I can remember us producing in the last twenty years or so that have made the grade in top class football and Sean Davis was pre academy. Something is not working, we should take a closer look at Southampton perhaps.
Neil Etheridge deserves a mention I think. He would be the prime example of a player leaving for peanuts that has done well.
Anyway, I'd say we've already taken a look at Southampton. That is where we got Jennings from.
In the last few seasons we have produced a better crop of players at Academy level. It follows that other Clubs would now pay closer notice and young heads will be turned. The one positive will be that we will attract better young players. The knack will be to develop a way of holding on to the talented ones. Im guessing it will involve a rule change somewhere down the line.
Quote from: I Ronic on June 14, 2019, 12:57:12 PM
In the last few seasons we have produced a better crop of players at Academy level. It follows that other Clubs would now pay closer notice and young heads will be turned. The one positive will be that we will attract better young players. The knack will be to develop a way of holding on to the talented ones. Im guessing it will involve a rule change somewhere down the line.
So, where are these young players, a number have been talked about but apart from Sess. I never see them playing for our first team.
Neil Etheridge is mentioned above as one that got away but just look at his record. When he left he played for a load of dross until he was signed for Cardiff. Was that 7-8 years since he left?
Goalkeepers mature and even his way into the first team was by luck.
What is interesting is that at the moment we have a batch of goalkeepers in our U23 and Academy ranks who are the envy of the football world. Just look at our age group international players
I have said before on another thread that there will not possibly be room for all of them so someone is going to have to choose carefully .Some will stay, some will fall by the wayside and drop down the leagues, and others will go on to star for other clubs.
And so,the blame for letting them get away will start again!
Quote from: RaySmith on June 14, 2019, 07:58:53 AM
I don't think it's true that young players have been blocked.
If they are good enough they will get their chance, but I think there is an awareness at the club about putting young players in the spotlight too early, especially post-Magath maybe.
Oreilly has 100% been blocked because he refuses to switch his agent.
Where is the proof of this Agent rule?
Why has the club not admitted to their rule?
Why has an agent who is missing out not leaked this to the Press?
Perhaps O'Reilly not getting a game or bench time is circumstantial evidence of this rule but apparently Harvey Elliott can't wait to get out of the door and yet he is getting game time.
What agent is he with? Along with Sess I thought he was with a big Agent Agency.
I may be wrong with some of my facts but there is something about this story which could be true but has holes in it.
Quote from: Stoneleigh Loyalist on June 15, 2019, 05:12:36 PM
Where is the proof of this Agent rule?
Why has the club not admitted to their rule?
Why has an agent who is missing out not leaked this to the Press?
Perhaps O'Reilly not getting a game or bench time is circumstantial evidence of this rule but apparently Harvey Elliott can't wait to get out of the door and yet he is getting game time.
What agent is he with? Along with Sess I thought he was with a big Agent Agency.
I may be wrong with some of my facts but there is something about this story which could be true but has holes in it.
Or could be his agent is asking for a stupid fee for his "work" and the club are refusing to pay it and have told O'Reilly hes going to ruin your career you want to think about changing him. i don't know but seems daft we would play one player that wants out the door and not another
It seems that anyone under 18 is more loyal to their agent than Fulham, unless we are developing players that want to play for Fulham even if they are good enough for a better team what is the point of developing them, except for a small transfer fee, which they seem to be able to dodge anyway.
The youth academy is required to fund player development without the developing club getting much reward. Fulham is not a show case (or train station) for players to demonstrate there skills to other clubs, we want players whose goal is to play for their club and country (like Jack Grelish for Aston Villa).
Elliott on his way out according to papers
and radio.😠
Why is anyone surprised?
They're with our academy in the first place looking for a future in the game and a route to the top. Since we're not at the top and are unlikely to be at the very top, we're always going to be a step on the ladder of a young boys career.
Most don't actually get onto the first step - each year we publish a list of players - mostly academy graduates - that are not going to be retained. I'm sure there are more of them than ones who are offered professional contracts.
I don´t know the benefit of the Academy when every promising U 18 leaves for merely development costs. We do all the hard work & the "big " clubs get easy pickings. On your bike Elliott. See you in 10 years playing non league football.. Our badge should be worn with pride, something you do not feel.
Quote from: Roberty on June 16, 2019, 09:37:44 AM
Why is anyone surprised?
They're with our academy in the first place looking for a future in the game and a route to the top. Since we're not at the top and are unlikely to be at the very top, we're always going to be a step on the ladder of a young boys career.
Most don't actually get onto the first step - each year we publish a list of players - mostly academy graduates - that are not going to be retained. I'm sure there are more of them than ones who are offered professional contracts.
A very rational comment. There is, of course, also the 'parental' input which may influence choice of agent etc. in the case of anyone who is, legally, a minor.
This is happening to the big clubs too with youngsters leaving for 1st team football or greener grass ! You can't predict who will go where but we've done our fair share of it too ! Modern game....
As we do bring on the better youngsters it does surprise me when our kids jump ship ! Drameh and Elliott should be first team players next yr if we let the Sess twins leave.
Quote from: grandad on June 16, 2019, 09:45:13 AM
I don´t know the benefit of the Academy when every promising U 18 leaves for merely development costs. We do all the hard work & the "big " clubs get easy pickings. On your bike Elliott. See you in 10 years playing non league football.. Our badge should be worn with pride, something you do not feel.
I'm with you Grandad, no loyalty left in the game. These youngsters don't deserve us supporters.
Quote from: bigalffc on June 16, 2019, 10:47:07 AM
Quote from: grandad on June 16, 2019, 09:45:13 AM
I don´t know the benefit of the Academy when every promising U 18 leaves for merely development costs. We do all the hard work & the "big " clubs get easy pickings. On your bike Elliott. See you in 10 years playing non league football.. Our badge should be worn with pride, something you do not feel.
I'm with you Grandad, no loyalty left in the game. These youngsters don't deserve us supporters.
I wonder if Johnny Haynes would have stayed if Trinder hadn't made him the UK's first £100 per week player?
As a point of interest I understand that was a fraction of the weekly income that Trinder had.
Quote from: bigalffc on June 16, 2019, 10:47:07 AM
Quote from: grandad on June 16, 2019, 09:45:13 AM
I don´t know the benefit of the Academy when every promising U 18 leaves for merely development costs. We do all the hard work & the "big " clubs get easy pickings. On your bike Elliott. See you in 10 years playing non league football.. Our badge should be worn with pride, something you do not feel.
I'm with you Grandad, no loyalty left in the game. These youngsters don't deserve us supporters.
Couldn't agree more... agents, players, Sky.. all down to greed now.
I can see us doing a Brentford soon and scrapping the academy, why look to develop youngsters then the big clubs come in and take them for peanuts. Any youngster with half a brain cell know they will not get any first team games but more than likely go out on loan.
The FA has to do something to protect developing clubs hang onto their talent, not such a problem for the big teams but must be very frustrating for teams like Fulham.
Leeds have made a substantial bid for Cody Drameh.
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on June 17, 2019, 06:52:27 PM
Leeds have made a substantial bid for Cody Drameh.
If Drameh is good enough for Leeds, why cannot he get a game for us.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 17, 2019, 11:53:05 PM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on June 17, 2019, 06:52:27 PM
Leeds have made a substantial bid for Cody Drameh.
If Drameh is good enough for Leeds, why cannot he get a game for us.
Beats me.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on June 18, 2019, 01:21:56 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 17, 2019, 11:53:05 PM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on June 17, 2019, 06:52:27 PM
Leeds have made a substantial bid for Cody Drameh.
If Drameh is good enough for Leeds, why cannot he get a game for us.
Beats me.
The reports suggest he is seen, by Leeds, as someone 'for the future'.
Quote from: toshes mate on June 18, 2019, 07:44:34 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on June 18, 2019, 01:21:56 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 17, 2019, 11:53:05 PM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on June 17, 2019, 06:52:27 PM
Leeds have made a substantial bid for Cody Drameh.
If Drameh is good enough for Leeds, why cannot he get a game for us.
Beats me.
The reports suggest he is seen, by Leeds, as someone 'for the future'.
We have Denis Odoi as the someone 'for the future'.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 18, 2019, 11:41:49 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on June 18, 2019, 07:44:34 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on June 18, 2019, 01:21:56 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 17, 2019, 11:53:05 PM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on June 17, 2019, 06:52:27 PM
Leeds have made a substantial bid for Cody Drameh.
If Drameh is good enough for Leeds, why cannot he get a game for us.
Beats me.
The reports suggest he is seen, by Leeds, as someone 'for the future'.
We have Denis Odoi as the someone 'for the future'.
Dennis is 32 NB, should have 2/3 decent years left in him injuries permitting, as a squad player.
But would not fall into the category of someone "for the future" any more than I am.
Would it be fair to say Leeds have a better record with taking players from their academy/u23's into the first team (in recent years at least)?
With Drameh to Leeds, would it be set at a tribunal cost as it is within the country? Or would we need to accept an offer for him? Not sure of his contract situation.
I'm specifically bothered about losing one particular player, Drameh or Harvey, but the pattern emerging (we've also lost one of the GK brothers to Liverpool recently amongst others) is negative so needs addressing.
Fulham need to update their training factilities, we are well behind the big six and rumours Motspur Park is crowded.
You would think Fulham could protect themselves better. You can't have a contract but maybe a way around to specify set agents. Just a thought, there's always a back door. Rules are made to be bent, not broken.
If they expect zero loyalty (which is sad but true) they won't go far wrong.
Quote from: Texas White on June 24, 2019, 01:19:31 AM
You would think Fulham could protect themselves better. You can't have a contract but maybe a way around to specify set agents. Just a thought, there's always a back door. Rules are made to be bent, not broken.
If they expect zero loyalty (which is sad but true) they won't go far wrong.
Didn't Chelsea get a two transfer ban for trying to lock teenagers into signing with them, such as sending one teenager to a top private school?
Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 24, 2019, 12:27:41 AM
Fulham need to update their training factilities, we are well behind the big six and rumours Motspur Park is crowded.
Hence the planning permission and approval to develop the ex-BBC ground, but even with this we are not going to challenge the wealthier, and less inhibited by circumstance, clubs. It isn't what SK is worth that matters it is FFC's health and sustainability that matters. Could the Khans open another academy or centre of excellence, perhaps at one of those 'lovely and suitable sites to evolve with' that were investigated (?) before the BBC ground came through? Such a move wouldn't preclude the kind of moves these teenagers go for, but it may provide a wider catchment area for talent. Alternatively, are there potential sites in the US that the Khans could utilise to capture American soccer talent?
Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 24, 2019, 04:27:43 AM
Quote from: Texas White on June 24, 2019, 01:19:31 AM
You would think Fulham could protect themselves better. You can't have a contract but maybe a way around to specify set agents. Just a thought, there's always a back door. Rules are made to be bent, not broken.
If they expect zero loyalty (which is sad but true) they won't go far wrong.
Didn't Chelsea get a two transfer ban for trying to lock teenagers into signing with them, such as sending one teenager to a top private school?
Mmm, that is the difference between breaking the rules and finding a way of bending them isn't it?
Quote from: toshes mate on June 18, 2019, 07:44:34 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on June 18, 2019, 01:21:56 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 17, 2019, 11:53:05 PM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on June 17, 2019, 06:52:27 PM
Leeds have made a substantial bid for Cody Drameh.
If Drameh is good enough for Leeds, why cannot he get a game for us.
Beats me.
The reports suggest he is seen, by Leeds, as someone 'for the future'.
Future means he isnt going to get game time this season, think there right back is there capt at the moment and they have another couple young lad as well.
Quote from: toshes mate on June 24, 2019, 01:08:15 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 24, 2019, 04:27:43 AM
Quote from: Texas White on June 24, 2019, 01:19:31 AM
You would think Fulham could protect themselves better. You can't have a contract but maybe a way around to specify set agents. Just a thought, there's always a back door. Rules are made to be bent, not broken.
If they expect zero loyalty (which is sad but true) they won't go far wrong.
Didn't Chelsea get a two transfer ban for trying to lock teenagers into signing with them, such as sending one teenager to a top private school?
Mmm, that is the difference between breaking the rules and finding a way of bending them isn't it?
Well, seeing how even the really big clubs seem to be loosing teenagers it is probably not a system that is very easily bent. I also think that mostly when someone is bending the rules in these cases they are actually breaking them, just without getting caught. I also disagree, rules are made to be followed (obviously within reason, just like everything else). Unfortunately, rules meant to protect youngsters are also royally screwing over clubs all the time. Like FFC just now seem to be screwing that Irish club for the young left back.
Didn't Chelsea get a two transfer ban for trying to lock teenagers into signing with them, such as sending one teenager to a top private school?
[/quote]
Mmm, that is the difference between breaking the rules and finding a way of bending them isn't it?
[/quote]
I think Everton were also subject to a transfer ban and a £500k fine for inducements to a youth player – something to do with private education and relocating the family.
People go on about loyalty but the whole EPPP and Academy system does not breed loyalty on either side.
Until the youth player signs a professional contract the club has all the power. The player is under constant scrutiny and can be released by the club at any time (six week reviews) but the in the event that the youth player wants to leave or join another club they can be restricted due to the compensation rules (YD10) to the extent where their only outlet would be to return to grass roots football.
Causes lots of issues http://fullcontactlaw.co.uk/2015/03/eppp-curious-yd-forms/
Not so bad at Fulham but in other clubs the youth players see a constant churn of Talent ID games and trialists challenging for their position and the pressure to perform is constant (Clubs like Chelsea and Arsenal have these every few weeks). These are kids that may have been at the club since 8 or 9 years of age – four times a week – three hours a session plus day release. With travelling time it is not uncommon for some 12-13yr old leave school at 3pm and not get home until 10pm at night. The system does not just affect the youth player but the whole family who has to commit time and money to chase the dream – very few clubs offer travel assistance or expenses. Every 'senior' youth player will know someone who has been with the club for years then released age 15 / 16 without much if any support to find a future.
It's not surprising that by the time the 0.01% of these kids, who finally get to sign a scholarship or professional contract, begin to think of themselves and what they can get out of the game / profession.
The end of a 'professional' contract is the only time when the graduating player has any of the power and wants a payback for all the time and sacrifice they have previously given the club.
The Fulham Academy is Cat 1 and has a great reputation. Bur it has massive competition from the bright lights of the 'big' London clubs with their extravagant facilities and large budgets.
The best thing the club can do to keep the pull on youth is return to the premiership asap.
Football can be so cruel with youngsters but so can many other sports. Ask the parent of any talented young gymnast swimmer athlete or dancer how much time and sacrifice the family have to put in just to get their youngsters to the next level . The difference with football is the potential income and there are plenty of clubs who can find ways of making life easier for the parents.. Fulham have an arrangement with Coombe School but there is nothing special in this as it merely ensures that the boys receive a good rather than luxurious education..
Youngsters will always want to leave for different reasons but this year threatens to be far worse than in living memory. Yes the glamour attracts them but this year is beyond making that excuse and in my opinion it can only point to a bad smell spreading within the club which they don5 like.
Quote from: toshes mate on June 24, 2019, 01:08:15 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 24, 2019, 04:27:43 AM
Quote from: Texas White on June 24, 2019, 01:19:31 AM
You would think Fulham could protect themselves better. You can't have a contract but maybe a way around to specify set agents. Just a thought, there's always a back door. Rules are made to be bent, not broken.
If they expect zero loyalty (which is sad but true) they won't go far wrong.
Didn't Chelsea get a two transfer ban for trying to lock teenagers into signing with them, such as sending one teenager to a top private school?
Mmm, that is the difference between breaking the rules and finding a way of bending them isn't it?
Exactly
Quote from: Texas White on June 25, 2019, 01:32:41 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on June 24, 2019, 01:08:15 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 24, 2019, 04:27:43 AM
Quote from: Texas White on June 24, 2019, 01:19:31 AM
You would think Fulham could protect themselves better. You can't have a contract but maybe a way around to specify set agents. Just a thought, there's always a back door. Rules are made to be bent, not broken.
If they expect zero loyalty (which is sad but true) they won't go far wrong.
Didn't Chelsea get a two transfer ban for trying to lock teenagers into signing with them, such as sending one teenager to a top private school?
Mmm, that is the difference between breaking the rules and finding a way of bending them isn't it?
Exactly
Chelsea obviously didn't find a good way of "bending the rules", if they did they wouldn't have needed to "break the rules".
Agents know how to get out a player under 17 out of any contract, they know how to bend the rules. FFC is only a stepping stone for these kids.
Maybe Fulham's youth is too young, we need players that can commit for at least two to three seasons.
Quote from: Sting of the North on June 24, 2019, 02:17:38 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on June 24, 2019, 01:08:15 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 24, 2019, 04:27:43 AM
Quote from: Texas White on June 24, 2019, 01:19:31 AM
You would think Fulham could protect themselves better. You can't have a contract but maybe a way around to specify set agents. Just a thought, there's always a back door. Rules are made to be bent, not broken.
If they expect zero loyalty (which is sad but true) they won't go far wrong.
Didn't Chelsea get a two transfer ban for trying to lock teenagers into signing with them, such as sending one teenager to a top private school?
Mmm, that is the difference between breaking the rules and finding a way of bending them isn't it?
I also think that mostly when someone is bending the rules in these cases they are actually breaking them, just without getting caught. I also disagree, rules are made to be followed (obviously within reason, just like everything else).
Hasn't most professional sport become a matter of bending rules before, during and after the event in as many ways as you can possibly find before the 'law' catches up with you? I'd like all sport to be based on a level playing field but before you can even begin to realise that you have to understand how a sport has managed to become so unable to stick with that in the first place. It is a social problem just as much as it is a sporting problem.
