Let me get started by saying that sometimes we are a joy to watch, and sometimes I am left wanting to clap at the screen when I am the only person in the room because someone needs to.
However...
the price we pay for this style of football is huge. Today is a great example, though the most worrying part was last season. We like to control the game, move the opposition around, and then wait for areas to exploit, be that through an incisive pass, getting the ball to our wingers in space, or flooding forwards in number. Patience is often the name of the game, and so it can take us minutes to build an attack. If we lose possession, we often have a lot of players forward, and our defenders tend to panic. In just a few seconds, the opposition has hit right back with a chance of their own. Granted, WBA are decent opposition, but we saw the exact same against Blackburn. That is why it seems that we are so vulnerable, ALL the time.
Further, the game we play takes confidence. Confidence in passing ability, timing, and each other. When you're holding a 1-0 lead, a little bit of panic does naturally set in. Free-flowing football becomes nervy, passes are misplaced, confidence goes down. This happened today, and we paid for it. We looked beaten as soon as they applied a little bit more pressure. 10 minutes more and they win that game.
In the Premier League, opponents are faster, stronger, and more intelligent. If we can't work it out at this level, then what hope do we have in the Prem? We saw it last season, yet seem willing to repeat it if we do manage promotion. There's no long-term future or consideration playing this style, unless Khan is going to spend 5X what he did last time (and I will never say he doesn't spend). So while it's pretty, it's not as pretty as 3 points or running away with the league as we should be doing with our players. This is the price we pay.
What's the solution? I don't know. If I did, I would be getting paid a lot more than I do. Am I suggesting hoofball? Definitely not. But as Slav used to say, we need to find a solution. Promotion is very achievable with a few tweaks.
Agreed.
The case in point today was that we lost the ball in midfield but got it back almost immediately due to opposition errors. This happened 2/3 times.
In the PL the opposing team would go forward and score. Simple as.
That's what happened last year.
Also don't have a solution but a plan B of Bobby Reid up top playing off of Mitro knock-downs could be a tactic to hone for use when we go back up.
The passing game works for Citeh but it won't with our meager sqaud.
Quote from: Skatzoffc on September 14, 2019, 05:37:57 PM
Agreed.
The case in point today was that we lost the ball in midfield but got it back almost immediately due to opposition errors. This happened 2/3 times.
In the PL the opposing team would go forward and score. Simple as.
That's what happened last year.
Also don't have a solution but a plan B of Bobby Reid up top playing off of Mitro knock-downs could be a tactic to hone for use when we go back up.
The passing game works for Citeh but it won't with our meager sqaud.
when we go back up? We are tenth in the league, we wont be going up any time soon.
We are only 3 points off second. Lots to play for.
Quote from: Whitestone on September 14, 2019, 05:44:45 PM
We are only 3 points off second. Lots to play for.
can you honestly see us stringing a few wins together? Think we are more likely to lose games on the bounce than we are win them.
No this extreme short passing game needs some adjustment especially now that it is taking place in our own penalty area.
One good quick pass out of defence to a wide man in space just has to be better than two or three short pretty passes that result in the wide man being tightly marked by the time the ball reaches him.
Quote from: fulhamben on September 14, 2019, 05:46:22 PM
Quote from: Whitestone on September 14, 2019, 05:44:45 PM
We are only 3 points off second. Lots to play for.
can you honestly see us stringing a few wins together? Think we are more likely to lose games on the bounce than we are win them.
That's the positive attitude I like to see. What position were we in before Slav's 23 game unbeaten run? And what happened that year?
Quote from: fulhamben on September 14, 2019, 05:46:22 PM
Quote from: Whitestone on September 14, 2019, 05:44:45 PM
We are only 3 points off second. Lots to play for.
can you honestly see us stringing a few wins together? Think we are more likely to lose games on the bounce than we are win them.
Definitely. We have a good run of games coming up, a decent squad, maybe not perfect. It's not the Premier League. All games are winnable in the Championship.
Today was another example of defective game management. The WBA substitutions changed the dynamic of the match and it was clear that one goal was unlikely to be enough.
But Parker did not address the change by strengthening midfield to protect the defence nor introduce new attacking options with Mitrovic clearly not having a good afternoon and not enough service from the wings (although Knockaert was MoM by a mile).
Once again a single mistake cost two vital points, which is what happens when you haven't bolted the door.
Easy to be wise after the event, but it felt inevitable from long before the equaliser.
We're dropping too many points. We lost to Barnsley, who are close to bottom now. It's going to be a knife fight all season and we need to be tougher, less naive and more clinical. We have the squad but now we need to see the kind of management that wins matches comfortably.
Non incisive tippy tappy sideways football is as riveting to go see as watching concrete set.
The only exciting part of Parker's master plan is waiting for Betts to mess it up as he desperately tries to look competent at distribution from within his own six yard box.
The Clocks ticking for Parker now, and he needs to find something to freshen this up.
As it stands, our opposition know what to expect and are dealing with us.
Changes we need: get more balls onto Mitro's head, centre midfielders more willing to get forward (Cairney nearly scored breaking forward), more runners in the box.
Quote from: fulhamben on September 14, 2019, 05:46:22 PM
Quote from: Whitestone on September 14, 2019, 05:44:45 PM
We are only 3 points off second. Lots to play for.
can you honestly see us stringing a few wins together? Think we are more likely to lose games on the bounce than we are win them.
Why not? - we're not a bad side, and with the players we've got we we should win many more than we lose.
Quote from: fulhamben on September 14, 2019, 05:46:22 PM
Quote from: Whitestone on September 14, 2019, 05:44:45 PM
We are only 3 points off second. Lots to play for.
can you honestly see us stringing a few wins together? Think we are more likely to lose games on the bounce than we are win them.
Yes I can we're dominating games. When it fully clicks we'll be unstoppable
Quote from: Chesh on September 14, 2019, 06:41:48 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on September 14, 2019, 05:46:22 PM
Quote from: Whitestone on September 14, 2019, 05:44:45 PM
We are only 3 points off second. Lots to play for.
can you honestly see us stringing a few wins together? Think we are more likely to lose games on the bounce than we are win them.
Why not? - we're not a bad side, and with the players we've got we we should win many more than we lose.
because we have about a 40% win ratio, and that doesmt look like changing
It's like people are watching another team, many comments on here are unreal. Our tactic had us play WBA off the field for 70 minutes, playing some absolutely wonderful football. Should have been at least 3-0 up by then. The tactic and style of play clearly worked against one of the strongest teams in the division. Unfortunately our finishing didn't.
Sting of the north
Most sensible post today
Who are you guys watching ??
We slipped up after a brilliant first half
Cairney first half was a class Act
Mistakes will happen, we need to be more ruthless
And bury these teams while we are on top
Some great football
Quote from: fulhamben on September 14, 2019, 07:22:19 PM
Quote from: Chesh on September 14, 2019, 06:41:48 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on September 14, 2019, 05:46:22 PM
Quote from: Whitestone on September 14, 2019, 05:44:45 PM
We are only 3 points off second. Lots to play for.
can you honestly see us stringing a few wins together? Think we are more likely to lose games on the bounce than we are win them.
Why not? - we're not a bad side, and with the players we've got we we should win many more than we lose.
because we have about a 40% win ratio, and that doesmt look like changing
What a defeatist attitude - it's no good stating stats though to back up your opinion, bearing in mind we've won 3 out of 7. yet only lost 2.....and you may also have noticed those 3 were consecutive wins?
I think the glass is more full than empty, especially bearing in mind our last 2 Championship starts (which didn't end too badly) compared to his one.
Why are people panicking and getting in a state over two dropped points at home, and one goalkeeping error that caused us to drop those two points. The game is over 90 plus minutes. Therefore it's impossible to dominate the game for all that time, no matter how good or not so good the opponents are, they will have a spell or two during a match where they will be dominating themselves. There are good draws and bad draws. A bad draw is when you have been second best for a majority of the game but hang on for a point. A good draw is the complete opposite. So if Betts hadn't made that one mistake he had in 90 plus minutes, then we probably would have won. Who could have forecast he was going to make an error. Certainly not the manager, so don't blame him. Don't be too hard on Betts, he probably hasn't slept all night playing it over again in his head. We played well enough to win with a bit to spare, but it wasn't to be due to careless finishing. Albion are also no mugs either, and neither is their Manager.
The jigsaw of the team is coming together, slowly but surely, with 2 or 3 more pieces to fit, and yes the team does need a little surgery and some tweaking. But each week there will be challenges, due to suspensions and injuries and loss of form. It's not a perfect world, the philosophy is right, and the players look as though they are all pulling in the right direction, unlike last year. We have a chance to take it out on Wednesday next week and get us back to winning ways.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on September 15, 2019, 04:11:57 AM
Why are people panicking and getting in a state over two dropped points at home, and one goalkeeping error that caused us to drop those two points. The game is over 90 plus minutes. Therefore it's impossible to dominate the game for all that time, no matter how good or not so good the opponents are, they will have a spell or two during a match where they will be dominating themselves. There are good draws and bad draws. A bad draw is when you have been second best for a majority of the game but hang on for a point. A good draw is the complete opposite. So if Betts hadn't made that one mistake he had in 90 plus minutes, then we probably would have won. Who could have forecast he was going to make an error. Certainly not the manager, so don't blame him. Don't be too hard on Betts, he probably hasn't slept all night playing it over again in his head. We played well enough to win with a bit to spare, but it wasn't to be due to careless finishing. Albion are also no mugs either, and neither is their Manager.
The jigsaw of the team is coming together, slowly but surely, with 2 or 3 more pieces to fit, and yes the team does need a little surgery and some tweaking. But each week there will be challenges, due to suspensions and injuries and loss of form. It's not a perfect world, the philosophy is right, and the players look as though they are all pulling in the right direction, unlike last year. We have a chance to take it out on Wednesday next week and get us back to winning ways.
Wise words Woolly, agree with everything you say.
Yes, we created enough chances to be clearly in front by half-time, and played one of the division's top sides off the field for long periods, but their keeper and the woodwork saved them.
They were bound to have a bit of pressure at some point in the game, but we would still have won if it wasn't from an error by Betts, who otherwise had a decent game i thought.
The only thing I worry about is after the game Parkert talks about we weren't playing the way we should be in the second half, ok then Scott what did you do about it, who did you drag off and send on with instructions to get the team playing the way it should be, All well and good saying you know what the problem is its another to rectify it
Quote from: Sgt Fulham on September 14, 2019, 02:47:42 PM
[...] the game we play takes confidence. Confidence in passing ability, timing, and each other. When you're holding a 1-0 lead, a little bit of panic does naturally set in. Free-flowing football becomes nervy, passes are misplaced, confidence goes down. This happened today, and we paid for it. We looked beaten as soon as they applied a little bit more pressure. 10 minutes more and they win that game.
[...]
In essence possession is a game of its own - you hold the ball, you command the game, your opponent cannot score, you wear them out and break their morale. But, I agree, we had no answer to the pressure applied in that last ten minutes or so, which was the opposite of all that went before. And that is all down to how you recycle the ball, how you launch attacks, and how you create space for your danger men. We are failing on the last point, IMO. It is often too enthusiastic, lacking in composed thought and the genuine desire to impose the united whole team on the opponent from front to back. Gung-ho in Chinese means harmony from everyone taking part and I guess that is what is distinctive between SJ's style and SP's style at the moment. We are part way there and we must remember how long it took Jokanovic to stop the leaky results from happening in both his full seasons.
It was always going to be the tougher of the 3 games in September. Especially without Arter due to suspension. As a result SPs options were probably a little less.
We took one and not three due to poor finishing. The game should have been sewn up long before the last 10 minutes. No need for all this doom and gloom tho.
Long way to go yet.
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on September 14, 2019, 06:36:35 PM
Changes we need: get more balls onto Mitro's head, centre midfielders more willing to get forward (Cairney nearly scored breaking forward), more runners in the box.
TBH I thought Cairney spent most of the game just off Mitrovic, as the chief playmaker I feel he needs to play a bit further back.
Also to get more balls on Mitrovic head we need spells in the game where Knockaert and cavaliero need to swap wings, they both cut in side rather than cross.
Quote from: Sting of the North on September 14, 2019, 10:27:35 PM
It's like people are watching another team, many comments on here are unreal. Our tactic had us play WBA off the field for 70 minutes, playing some absolutely wonderful football. Should have been at least 3-0 up by then. The tactic and style of play clearly worked against one of the strongest teams in the division. Unfortunately our finishing didn't.
This was my view but I thought I was the only one. For more than an hour we were streets ahead of WBA and dominated them as you say. We paid the price for not taking our chances, should have been out of sight.
we made loads of chances today and the issue was the quality of players. long ball/more direct would be a disaster with this squad.... we are playing as we need to with these players, but a few of them need a kick up the backside/arm round the shoulder to try and get the best from them all.
Would stay up in the PL playing this way IF the whole 11 isn't changed for mercenaries.
Quote from: PossessionKings on September 15, 2019, 01:03:20 PM
Would stay up in the PL playing this way IF the whole 11 isn't changed for mercenaries.
+1
Our goal was fortunate .. but we had other chances. We deserved to be in the lead. We deserved a penalty that the whole of the Hammersmith end saw but not the ref who was 10 yards away with a good view. Crucial decision. If given and scored. I don't think West Brom would have come back from 2-0. Second stonewall penalty not given in successive matches.
The goal was a gift. Apart from that they had few real chances, but notably a header that might have even won them the game in added time. Mind you, Sessegnon was caught running with the ball, and only their ineptitude prevented them creating a good goal-scoring opportunity.
And the MotM ? must have been their keeper.
So yes, need to take our chances. I think we need to create a few more as well. And we can't give away goals through a succession of individual errors. I think we do move the ball quickly when the option is there, so we need to make sure there are more of those opportunities. It was a hot day yesterday, and maybe that contributed to what looked like a languid pace at times. But we gave up two points to a promotion rival, not a great day, as Knockaert openly admitted in his interview on Quest. Good to see he was at least as disappointed as us.
Quote from: bobby01 on September 15, 2019, 11:17:22 AM
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on September 14, 2019, 06:36:35 PM
Changes we need: get more balls onto Mitro's head, centre midfielders more willing to get forward (Cairney nearly scored breaking forward), more runners in the box.
TBH I thought Cairney spent most of the game just off Mitrovic, as the chief playmaker I feel he needs to play a bit further back.
Also to get more balls on Mitrovic head we need spells in the game where Knockaert and cavaliero need to swap wings, they both cut in side rather than cross.
Disagree. He was more dangerous further forward and nearly scored. Maybe in the second half when we were up against it he might have dropped back though.
Quote from: Sting of the North on September 14, 2019, 10:27:35 PM
It's like people are watching another team, many comments on here are unreal. Our tactic had us play WBA off the field for 70 minutes, playing some absolutely wonderful football. Should have been at least 3-0 up by then. The tactic and style of play clearly worked against one of the strongest teams in the division. Unfortunately our finishing didn't.
A lot of Fulham fans are just babies. If they see a comet in the sky, the world must be going to end.
Passing out from the back rather than hoofing forward can be more than fine. What annoys are:
1. midfielders / wide players who never present for the ball. So the oppositions covering work is easier than it should be. We currently have a couple. In contrast Aluko was good at this and so was Floyd.
2. midfielders who present with the wrong body shape. They need to receive it on the half turn to quickly transition to further forward momentum. Tom Cairney in his promotion winning pomp did this automatically. In contrast a few season ago we had a midfielder who at a previous club was known as "crop circles" and was forever slowing down play. Unfortunately for this particular aspect of play he's now the gaffer. He does have some rather more positive qualities I hasten to add.
3 defenders who misplace the pass so that a half-turned midfielder needs to readjust
None of which is exactly rocket science. Kids in grass roots football learn this stuff.
Quote from: bobby01 on September 15, 2019, 11:17:22 AM
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on September 14, 2019, 06:36:35 PM
Changes we need: get more balls onto Mitro's head, centre midfielders more willing to get forward (Cairney nearly scored breaking forward), more runners in the box.
TBH I thought Cairney spent most of the game just off Mitrovic, as the chief playmaker I feel he needs to play a bit further back.
Also to get more balls on Mitrovic head we need spells in the game where Knockaert and cavaliero need to swap wings, they both cut in side rather than cross.
Yes✅
Quote from: Chesh on September 14, 2019, 11:07:01 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on September 14, 2019, 07:22:19 PM
Quote from: Chesh on September 14, 2019, 06:41:48 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on September 14, 2019, 05:46:22 PM
Quote from: Whitestone on September 14, 2019, 05:44:45 PM
We are only 3 points off second. Lots to play for.
can you honestly see us stringing a few wins together? Think we are more likely to lose games on the bounce than we are win them.
Why not? - we're not a bad side, and with the players we've got we we should win many more than we lose.
because we have about a 40% win ratio, and that doesmt look like changing
What a defeatist attitude - it's no good stating stats though to back up your opinion, bearing in mind we've won 3 out of 7. yet only lost 2.....and you may also have noticed those 3 were consecutive wins?
I think the glass is more full than empty, especially bearing in mind our last 2 Championship starts (which didn't end too badly) compared to his one.
well that's 4 games without a win, 5 if you count the cup. So when is this great winning streak about to happen
So we have all the possession but when we need to keep the ball to see the game out we don't.
Quote from: FFC73 on September 21, 2019, 05:47:48 PM
So we have all the possession but when we need to keep the ball to see the game out we don't.
Exactly, because the mindset changes for some reason, and we lose our composure.
If we stay up and sign a good CB we will stay up.
