One ex player was stating that it will never take off in a big way in this country,compared to USA and others,because they will never generate the excitement and controversies that the men's game has.
Some Women's Super League attendance's at weekend.
Brighton v West Ham.800
Liverpool v Bristol City 900
Reading v Everton. 616
Man City v Birmingham 1,800
Spurs v Man Utd 1,200
One 2nd tier game at Portsmouth attracted 87.
Will it really catch on,or not as some now think.?
Not merely a question of not catching on but could it even have a negative effect.I am a 60 year old Fulham supporter becoming so fed up with the present attempts to make us embrace womens football that maybe I could disown the male team.It is the same with the Gay issue so promoted that I fear the club will one day inform me that I cannot be considered a true supporter as I am not homosexual.Let me state clearly I am a true Cottager!
The growth of women's football in the States is still very slow and still faces several challenges. The average attendance now a days is around 7K. Obviously, there are some States and teams that do better then others. That growth would have taken longer or, may never have happened without the success that the USA Women's National team has had in both the World cup and Olympics.
Until more men except that the women's game is still the beautiful game and forget that it's being played by women, the women's leagues will continue to struggle and face continued challenges.
Quote from: Russianrob on October 14, 2019, 03:23:04 PM
Not merely a question of not catching on but could it even have a negative effect.I am a 60 year old Fulham supporter becoming so fed up with the present attempts to make us embrace womens football that maybe I could disown the male team.It is the same with the Gay issue so promoted that I fear the club will one day inform me that I cannot be considered a true supporter as I am not homosexual.Let me state clearly I am a true Cottager!
What specific attempts from the club is bothering you so much? Because I have noticed nothing that takes away from my enjoyment of following Fulham.
To be honest, and bearing in mind prices involved, the men's game would struggle to start up in the current climate. Many sports would be in similar danger of falling apart if media money was suddenly stripped away. However, I do believe there is a problem with expecting women's football to suddenly be comparative to the men's sport given the history of the game and the past refusals to allow women to even play the game etc. The gates for their games may improve with time and exposure to the attractions of a career in football become more meaningful to young girls. Give it time.
Quote from: toshes mate on October 14, 2019, 03:52:38 PM
To be honest, and bearing in mind prices involved, the men's game would struggle to start up in the current climate. Many sports would be in similar danger of falling apart if media money was suddenly stripped away. However, I do believe there is a problem with expecting women's football to suddenly be comparative to the men's sport given the history of the game and the past refusals to allow women to even play the game etc. The gates for their games may improve with time and exposure to the attractions of a career in football become more meaningful to young girls. Give it time.
I do wonder what would happen if the Women's English National Team won their world cup or Olympics? Would it have the same effect it has had on women's league here in the States? Would the Women's English National Football League see an up tic in growth and fans? I personally think it would.
Also, the other thing that has really helped the women's league here in the States was the creation of the American Outlaws fan group. They organize match day experiences that include pregame get togethers with tickets included. They also organize major viewing parties for big matches. That has really helped the women's league to grow in both fans and viewers.
Quote from: love4ffc on October 14, 2019, 04:00:42 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on October 14, 2019, 03:52:38 PM
To be honest, and bearing in mind prices involved, the men's game would struggle to start up in the current climate. Many sports would be in similar danger of falling apart if media money was suddenly stripped away. However, I do believe there is a problem with expecting women's football to suddenly be comparative to the men's sport given the history of the game and the past refusals to allow women to even play the game etc. The gates for their games may improve with time and exposure to the attractions of a career in football become more meaningful to young girls. Give it time.
I do wonder what would happen if the Women's English National Team won their world cup or Olympics? Would it have the same effect it has had on women's league here in the States? Would the Women's English National Football League see an up tic in growth and fans? I personally think it would.
Also, the other thing that has really helped the women's league here in the States was the creation of the American Outlaws fan group. They organize match day experiences that include pregame get togethers with tickets included. They also organize major viewing parties for big matches. That has really helped the women's league to grow in both fans and viewers.
I do believe the American Outlaws idea works well when a nation is trying to bolster a relatively recent interest in a sport led by achieving a more successful national team. The US have certainly rightfully claimed ownership of women's world soccer. In England we have the problem of somewhat declining interest in the men's national team and quite static attendances for most men's football clubs. Success at any level does seem to work wonders at getting bums on seats.
IMO, I quite like the ladies game but it is much less dynamic than the mens and its biggest disadvantage is for obvious reasons it lacks history. In a few years when it has been professional for longer things may change. The ladies game needs a few more stars and characters and something to ignite the imagination.
but in the end it still looks a bity like high quality park football and that will be an issue until the game develops a bit more.
I can just about accept women's football but I am really not going out of my way to watch it, there are may better things to attract my attention these days,
Sorry but what I cannot accept is women's boxing and rugby.
Women's Football bores me to tears!
Quote from: toshes mate on October 14, 2019, 03:52:38 PM
To be honest, and bearing in mind prices involved, the men's game would struggle to start up in the current climate. Many sports would be in similar danger of falling apart if media money was suddenly stripped away. However, I do believe there is a problem with expecting women's football to suddenly be comparative to the men's sport given the history of the game and the past refusals to allow women to even play the game etc. The gates for their games may improve with time and exposure to the attractions of a career in football become more meaningful to young girls. Give it time.
Good points !
And the women want the same pay as the men.
I did enjoy the World Cup but the BBC are just trying to ram it down your throat
constantly.
BBC embarrassing at Sports Personality .Greatest sporting moment
Womens Netball Team winning a gold medal at Commonwealth Games. 064.gif
As someone mentioned previously the biggest issue is women's football lacks the history of the men's game. Most of us have seen highs lows and indifference over many many years, following FFC
Because of the time and emotion we've all invested over the years we have that attachment and a bond with the men's team that most of us just don't have with the women's team.
With the busy lives we all lead I'm not sure most of us have the time to follow both teams as active match going supporters either.
Will it change over the years probably yes, but it's got a long way to go to close the gap to get anywhere near the men's game
Women's football will never achieve mass popularity anywhere close to the men's game for the same reason youth football doesn't.
Its just not good enough and no amount marketing will change that fact.
Of course occasionally everything falls right and you get a cracking game such as some of the recent Women's World Cup games but people weren't queuing to watch youth football after recent England success at various age levels and the ladies game is in the same boat
It is really not my cup of tea. The quality is bad and it's shoved down your throat. Women have many good attributes and skills, but playing football is not one of them. We do not need to be the same, but celebrate our differences as they are the reason we made it as a species. There is an audience for womens football, but it will never be mainstream.
Quote from: Sgt Fulham on October 14, 2019, 07:40:10 PM
Women have many good attributes and skills, but playing football is not one of them.
I'm going to be polite and just call you a dinosaur. Our club has 4 girls teams. Some of the girls coming through are frighteningly good. Give it 4 years and watch the girls coming through.
The FA changed the way youth football was run about ten years ago. It was done on the back of English players not having the sufficient skills to compete at the top level. Our game was dour, long ball with little technique. You may have enjoyed it.
The young exciting gifted players you see now are the direct result of these efforts.
Right now, you have a small band of 11 and 12 year old girls who have as good a technique as the boys they compete with. If you stood on the sidelines at a grass roots game, you would be somewhat shocked and wouldn't make that misguided and lets have it right, downright rude comment
Quote from: Sgt Fulham on October 14, 2019, 07:40:10 PM
It is really not my cup of tea. The quality is bad and it's shoved down your throat. Women have many good attributes and skills, but playing football is not one of them. We do not need to be the same, but celebrate our differences as they are the reason we made it as a species. There is an audience for womens football, but it will never be mainstream.
So right, I am in favour of equal opportunity for women but we must not lose sight of the basic fact that men and women are different and better at different things. To suggest they are equals on a football pitch is ridiculous.
Quote from: KJS on October 14, 2019, 06:39:27 PM
Women's Football bores me to tears!
If FFC want me to support the women's team more than the men's, they only have to make Big Sam coach of the men's.
Quote from: 70sPimlico on October 14, 2019, 09:48:57 PM
Quote from: Sgt Fulham on October 14, 2019, 07:40:10 PM
Women have many good attributes and skills, but playing football is not one of them.
I'm going to be polite and just call you a dinosaur. Our club has 4 girls teams. Some of the girls coming through are frighteningly good. Give it 4 years and watch the girls coming through.
The FA changed the way youth football was run about ten years ago. It was done on the back of English players not having the sufficient skills to compete at the top level. Our game was dour, long ball with little technique. You may have enjoyed it.
The young exciting gifted players you see now are the direct result of these efforts.
Right now, you have a small band of 11 and 12 year old girls who have as good a technique as the boys they compete with. If you stood on the sidelines at a grass roots game, you would be somewhat shocked and wouldn't make that misguided and lets have it right, downright rude comment
You can call me what you want, your response is based on emotion rather than reason. It's clear that I mean that women can't play football well in relation to the standards seen in professional men's football. I'm sure you are aware of the games that prove this quite clearly.
As to your comments about 11 and 12 year olds, I'm glad the girls are good, but that's before puberty. I'm sorry if my facts are rude to you, but that's on you, not me.
The best thing woman's football can do is distance itself as far as possible to the men's game and stop pretending they are the same particularly in pay related instances. The more it rebrands itself away from the shadow of the men's game and brand itself as something completely different, in my opinion, a slower but more tactical game at times, with great end to end football exhibited at the World Cup, the better it will become in popularity and in turn, income revenue.
There is a market and an arena for the woman's game, I watched the FA cup and the World Cup but make no mistake, it won't ever compete with the men's game.
I think the World Cup has boosted popularity of the women's game here. I've really noticed this, and seen an expansion in women's football, halting as it may be in terms of actual attendance at games, but at least the games are taking place.
But I think an interest has been created amongst young women themselves, in taking part - that this is an acceptable thing to do, and this has to be a good idea, if only for their long term health. Young women generally being adverse to exercise, with little interest in sport of any kind.
Quote from: 70sPimlico on October 14, 2019, 09:48:57 PM
Quote from: Sgt Fulham on October 14, 2019, 07:40:10 PM
Women have many good attributes and skills, but playing football is not one of them.
I'm going to be polite and just call you a dinosaur. Our club has 4 girls teams. Some of the girls coming through are frighteningly good. Give it 4 years and watch the girls coming through.
The FA changed the way youth football was run about ten years ago. It was done on the back of English players not having the sufficient skills to compete at the top level. Our game was dour, long ball with little technique. You may have enjoyed it.
The young exciting gifted players you see now are the direct result of these efforts.
Right now, you have a small band of 11 and 12 year old girls who have as good a technique as the boys they compete with. If you stood on the sidelines at a grass roots game, you would be somewhat shocked and wouldn't make that misguided and lets have it right, downright rude comment
+1
I think Hampton and Richmond would beat the English Ladies Team
Quote from: toshes mate on October 15, 2019, 08:00:55 AM
Quote from: 70sPimlico on October 14, 2019, 09:48:57 PM
Quote from: Sgt Fulham on October 14, 2019, 07:40:10 PM
Women have many good attributes and skills, but playing football is not one of them.
I'm going to be polite and just call you a dinosaur. Our club has 4 girls teams. Some of the girls coming through are frighteningly good. Give it 4 years and watch the girls coming through.
The FA changed the way youth football was run about ten years ago. It was done on the back of English players not having the sufficient skills to compete at the top level. Our game was dour, long ball with little technique. You may have enjoyed it.
The young exciting gifted players you see now are the direct result of these efforts.
Right now, you have a small band of 11 and 12 year old girls who have as good a technique as the boys they compete with. If you stood on the sidelines at a grass roots game, you would be somewhat shocked and wouldn't make that misguided and lets have it right, downright rude comment
+1
The point of the discussion is not what skills they have(like pointed out here at 11 &12) or when they get older,but like was said on the radio,will there ever be an audience for it.
If you look at other sports like tennis and athletics they attract the same crowds as at the mens do,maybe because they are mixed tournaments or whatever.
Girls football isn't new,its been around longer than some think,my daughter played for Newmarket team in 1990.
Nowhere is it being promoted more than in the Meryside area with Liverpool men's side achieving what they have,yet at moment it hasn't helped the girls game with only 900 and less at other home game coming to watch.
I'm going to be down right honest, I tried watching women's football once. But will never again. Simply because I didn't enjoy one second of it. And I'd forever be drawing unfair comparison's to the mens teams.
People say women have so much more protection and rights, and in most cases an easier ticket through life (suppose that's true in my experiences). So I can see why theres a growing community of women haters.
Think it's all equality a diversity, and too much try harding from the media that actually puts more people off than attracts people to women's sports.
The BBC has played a major role in promoting women's football beyond its realistic expectations.
First, the BBC is so PC in relation to gender / colour / orientation that at times I feel white males are actually discriminated against! They have very little chance of landing a decent job under the current set up.
Women's football is attractive to them because they employ so many female sports presenters - witness Five Live on a Saturday afternoon or the News 24 sports programme; there is bound to be a bias. Women's football is also cheap - no massive contracts like SKY / BT are wrapped into. They are desperate for any live sport - witness hours of athletics across summer afternoons and Autumn evenings. On the BBC Sport website women's games are often just flagged up by the team names so the visitor has no idea its a women's game (Same with cricket).
So they are promoting a minority sport in a pretty uneven way. What if they were to give Div 1 and Dive 2 men's football the same exposure?
I think many would be surprised at the viewing figures. That said, did I read there is a women's game this coming weekend where a gte of 80,000 is expected? Will make a pleasant change from gates of a few hundred.
Quote from: MikeW on October 15, 2019, 05:27:54 PM
The BBC has played a major role in promoting women's football beyond its realistic expectations.
First, the BBC is so PC in relation to gender / colour / orientation that at times I feel white males are actually discriminated against! They have very little chance of landing a decent job under the current set up.
Women's football is attractive to them because they employ so many female sports presenters - witness Five Live on a Saturday afternoon or the News 24 sports programme; there is bound to be a bias. Women's football is also cheap - no massive contracts like SKY / BT are wrapped into. They are desperate for any live sport - witness hours of athletics across summer afternoons and Autumn evenings. On the BBC Sport website women's games are often just flagged up by the team names so the visitor has no idea its a women's game (Same with cricket).
So they are promoting a minority sport in a pretty uneven way. What if they were to give Div 1 and Dive 2 men's football the same exposure?
I think many would be surprised at the viewing figures. That said, did I read there is a women's game this coming weekend where a gte of 80,000 is expected? Will make a pleasant change from gates of a few hundred.
They sell tickets £5 adults £1 kids .
Just checked...yep 2019 and not 1919
Was starting to wonder given some of the comments here and elsewhere.
Quote from: MJG on October 15, 2019, 06:19:30 PM
Just checked...yep 2019 and not 1919
Was starting to wonder given some of the comments here and elsewhere.
064.gif
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on October 14, 2019, 07:05:10 PM
Women's football will never achieve mass popularity anywhere close to the men's game for the same reason youth football doesn't.
Its just not good enough and no amount marketing will change that fact.
Of course occasionally everything falls right and you get a cracking game such as some of the recent Women's World Cup games but people weren't queuing to watch youth football after recent England success at various age levels and the ladies game is in the same boat
I disagree. Youth football is usually different in respect that there are 11 players giving it their all because they love to play the game. There is no money involved The supporters are their family and friends and it works for me. It is though about the history. Success is built slowly and when it comes to fruition it is sweet
Quote from: MJG on October 15, 2019, 06:19:30 PM
Just checked...yep 2019 and not 1919
Was starting to wonder given some of the comments here and elsewhere.
What, that women's football is of a lower quality than men's and will therefore likely never be as popular? It will be 2119 and that will still be true. You can't ignore the obvious athletic differences between men and women, as much as you wish.
Men and women don't have to be the same at EVERYTHING. There's plenty of stuff that women excel in compared to men, it's really not a big deal.
Nothing personal, but I find this assumption of the moral high ground epidemic quite childish and inhibitory to proper discussion. If you have a valid point to counter my argument let's discuss it, don't just roll your eyes and demean.
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on October 15, 2019, 08:21:30 AM
The point of the discussion is not what skills they have(like pointed out here at 11 &12) or when they get older,but like was said on the radio,will there ever be an audience for it.
If you look at other sports like tennis and athletics they attract the same crowds as at the mens do,maybe because they are mixed tournaments or whatever.
Girls football isn't new,its been around longer than some think,my daughter played for Newmarket team in 1990.
Nowhere is it being promoted more than in the Meryside area with Liverpool men's side achieving what they have,yet at moment it hasn't helped the girls game with only 900 and less at other home game coming to watch.
Women were playing football around the time of the suffragettes, and then the FA decided to ban them from playing. It isn't about women competing to be better than men; it is about women competing against each other as a professional entertainment and measured against some games played by their gender counterparts they don't do too badly. But it is a matter of taste and them that want to watch will watch. There are men's games that attract similar gates to the women, you just have to drop down the pyramid to the National Leagues to find them.
Personally I enjoy watching England women's football and cricket, and especially the rugby. They are playing other teams who are all women, to compete against each other, nothing wrong with that, they have a level playing field. But I agree they are indulged far too much in men's sport in the name of one of the twin evils of this world, yes you have guest it, the insufferable Political Correctness, which the bbc and sky are obsessed with.
I don't watch women's football on the TV, but it's nothing to do with them. Frankly, my son's U15 team and Fulham blots up more than enough of my time. I love watching football and find enjoyment at any level provided teams are reasonably matched. So my lack of interest in women's football is really little different to my disinterest in the premier league.
But that's enough about watching. Who cares about the crowd size? Football is about participating and it is for everyone.
Quote from: Sgt Fulham on October 15, 2019, 07:12:55 PM
Quote from: MJG on October 15, 2019, 06:19:30 PM
Just checked...yep 2019 and not 1919
Was starting to wonder given some of the comments here and elsewhere.
What, that women's football is of a lower quality than men's and will therefore likely never be as popular? It will be 2119 and that will still be true. You can't ignore the obvious athletic differences between men and women, as much as you wish.
Men and women don't have to be the same at EVERYTHING. There's plenty of stuff that women excel in compared to men, it's really not a big deal.
Nothing personal, but I find this assumption of the moral high ground epidemic quite childish and inhibitory to proper discussion. If you have a valid point to counter my argument let's discuss it, don't just roll your eyes and demean.
I don't disagree with the athletic view and different abilities of both sexes. My comment was aimed at some of the other comments which in this day and age could be deemed sexist.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/49981331
Make your own mind up
This is the way things are going - women's' sport is taking off, in all sports. and I think it's a good thing.
Take cycling - one of the most macho of sports, with few women doing it, and then relegated to the margins in traditional European competition, with shorter, easier courses, and hardly publicised. - 'no one wants to watch it' people said.
But in this country we've led the way, with women riding equal in length and toughness courses in the Tour de Yorkshire and the recent World Championships (Britain hosting it for the first time since the 50's showing how we've suddenly became a force in the sport), which also had mixed time trial teams .
And do you know what? the crowds out on the roads and streets, especially, but not solely, to support local favourite Lizzie Deignance, showed that people are as receptive to watching and appreciating women's sport as men's, if it's put on and advertised properly, with the same TV coverage, etc.
And i believe that Women's football will grow in popularity very quickly now, and obviously, also quickly, greatly improve in skill and ability, though always separate from the men's game, although i think the differences in skill and athleticism will become less marked.
Women will never be as physically strong as men, and won't play against male teams in football, but have shown that they can be as tough and competitive as men, which can make female elite sport as entertaining and attractive to watch as men's.
Agree with the obvious points made about the physical differences between the sexes and therefore the unavoidable fact that the women will never be as good as the men. That's significant because spectator sports are generally about watching the handful if individuals who are the very best in the world at what they do.
I'm glad that we, as a society, now encourage girls to play football/sports just as I've been encouraged to play football/sports as a man. It's irrefutably a good thing given it's generally enjoyable, builds friendships and improves one's physical and mental well-being. But just because I played football, I didn't expect to paid Ronaldo's salary, for people to pay to watch me, or for the BBC to spend the license fee broadcasting my matches. Neither should the women.
Quote from: Russianrob on October 14, 2019, 03:23:04 PM
Not merely a question of not catching on but could it even have a negative effect.I am a 60 year old Fulham supporter becoming so fed up with the present attempts to make us embrace womens football that maybe I could disown the male team.It is the same with the Gay issue so promoted that I fear the club will one day inform me that I cannot be considered a true supporter as I am not homosexual.Let me state clearly I am a true Cottager!
As a father of a female footballer your thinking seems narrow minded to me...but I wouldn't begrudge you having your own opinion.
I'm not sure anyone is forcing anything on you.
Sent from my BND-L34 using Tapatalk
Quote from: Statto on October 15, 2019, 10:21:30 PM
Agree with the obvious points made about the physical differences between the sexes and therefore the unavoidable fact that the women will never be as good as the men. That's significant because spectator sports are generally about watching the handful if individuals who are the very best in the world at what they do.
I'm glad that we, as a society, now encourage girls to play football/sports just as I've been encouraged to play football/sports as a man. It's irrefutably a good thing given it's generally enjoyable, builds friendships and improves one's physical and mental well-being. But just because I played football, I didn't expect to paid Ronaldo's salary, for people to pay to watch me, or for the BBC to spend the license fee broadcasting my matches. Neither should the women.
I agree with the wage aspect of your comment but I think the BBC comment is a little misleading. The BBC bought the woman's world cup because it was an opportunity to try and boost the game but mainly because it was a world sporting event they could actually afford and sport always does well and gets decent viewing figures. If football hadn't sold the rights to private companies or the BBC could afford to televise those events, they would of.
Call me cynical but they I think this was way more about the affordability of it rather than the social progressive politics behind it. That was just a bonus.
Don't fall in to the trap of comparing the women's game with the men's game.
It's different, and should be treated on its own merits.
And in terms of participation, the women's international v. Germany on 7 November is sold out. And I am talking Wembley stadium, not some non-league ground. A good thing, in my own view.
Quote from: Burt on October 16, 2019, 01:01:17 PM
Don't fall in to the trap of comparing the women's game with the men's game.
It's different, and should be treated on its own merits.
And in terms of participation, the women's international v. Germany on 7 November is sold out. And I am talking Wembley stadium, not some non-league ground. A good thing, in my own view.
I do agree but let's not fall into the international trap. The real money is at the club level and average league games are rising but still too low to justify anywhere close to mens wages. I mentioned in a previous post, get out of the shadow of mens and re brand entirely and I think it could be a future success.
For me one of the most annoying things about having womens football is that the BBC results service not only gives the scores from the most remote unknown mens teams in Europe but also womens.It is becoming quicker to read War and Peace than it is to read the full results service!
