So it appears that our manager has no intentions of changing our style of possesion football. Well if that's true we need to get used to many more defeats and performances as we witnessed today.
His argument is that we have the most amount of shots on target in the league so we can't complain. Just need to convert our chances.
I mean.. it's a fair point. Took Slav some time to start winning too... what does everyone think?
Quote from: Milo on November 02, 2019, 09:11:24 PM
His argument is that we have the most amount of shots on target in the league so we can't complain. Just need to convert our chances.
I mean.. it's a fair point. Took Slav some time to start winning too... what does everyone think?
yes but most of them shots came against Reading and Millwall
This is what I think....today ...70+% possession and 1 x shot on target.
The man is an imposter.
According to the stats for all our possession we only had eight shots and only one on target today.
Just not good enough.
Stubbornness and poor results cost Slav his job. I can see the same happening to Parker. He has a good group of players that are underachieving largely due to the style and tactics that are down to him. Surely he can see this and will make the necessary changes. The football he is serving up up is so slow and boring. Possession is pointless without the goals to back it up.
I am still amazed at the anti-Parker hysterics. We've lost four times...ONLY FOUR TIMES. It's the draws that are killing us. Give the man a f*cking break. I'd you all to take the job and see how you do. A couple more results like this back to back and I can see the argument of wanting him gone...but give him at least half a season in the championship to figure it out. An imposter, please. He is a new manager trying to make his way in one of, if not the, most competitive and challenging leagues in Europe.
This was a worrying performance today. It was just too easy for Hull to regroup and get men behind the ball. And we had little idea how to break them down. We concede early and thereafter are forced even more to take the game to them, but they can sit back and hit us on the break with fast players breaking out with real pace from midfield. So then we take off the only defender with pace to play with 3 not so pacey centre-backs. Puzzling managerial decision imo.
Hull will do reasonably well, or even very well if they keep playing like that, this year, but this defeat was down to us, and Hull looked a better team.
This is now the test of Parker. We should be improving, not getting worse. There is still plenty of time, but the set-up Parker deploys was found out big time today. Can he now adapt?
Quote from: OhConnah on November 02, 2019, 09:28:37 PM
I'd you all to take the job and see how you do.
Lol, so the benchmark for Parker is 'could the average butcher/baker/candlestick maker watching from the stands do a better job?'
It's the lack of a Plan B when we go behind. Throw another striker on and take off a midfielder. It's not working and we don't know what to do next ☹️🤞⚽
Someone once said that the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results. Hmmmmm....
Hull missed a sitter in the first half , could have been four nil today.
Look it is goals that count, we never looked like scoring today, we didn't score last week and if we could well end up without a goal next week.
Come on Scotty something needs to change.
Quote from: Milo on November 02, 2019, 09:11:24 PM
His argument is that we have the most amount of shots on target in the league so we can't complain. Just need to convert our chances. I mean.. it's a fair point.
Not a fair point at all. Totally distorts reality. I believe most of our target shots and goals scored only happened in a couple of games so far. Today v Hull, 75% possession and just ONE shot on target. At home. Something is NOT working with the current system. This is another case where stats do not tell the whole truth. And it pains me that our head coach subscribes to this.
Quote from: Whitestone on November 02, 2019, 09:20:31 PM
Stubbornness and poor results cost Slav his job. I can see the same happening to Parker.
Excellent point. It seems Parker suffering from Slavitis. A refusal to make changes when things clearly are not working. I also think we do have a group of 'good' players (though our backline defense is not very good) that should be able to see success at this level. I know we are now in the throughs of some disappointing results and in a state of angst, but if things don't change soon, we're looking at a mid table club.
Quote from: Statto on November 02, 2019, 10:00:35 PM
Quote from: OhConnah on November 02, 2019, 09:28:37 PM
I'd you all to take the job and see how you do.
Lol, so the benchmark for Parker is 'could the average butcher/baker/candlestick maker watching from the stands do a better job?'
I love this 'logic'.... :005:
Yep and he had the cheek to say "one defeat and people start pointing the finger"
Sorry to tell you this Scott but we lost comprehensively against Stoke who were bottom of the league, we lost against Barnsley (their only win of season), we struggled to hang on to a 0-0 vs Boro and they haven't won in 12.
People are pointing the finger because results and performance are totally sub standard. What worries me most is that he doesn't see that.
We had a lot of crosses into the box but nobody on the end of them. No urgency and happy to go back to the half way line. We conceded in the first ten minutes and we were the home team we only had 1 shot on goal. Try painting that as good because I wouldn't know where to start. I wouldn't be surprised to see Parker sacked in the next international break
Quote from: Statto on November 02, 2019, 10:00:35 PM
Quote from: OhConnah on November 02, 2019, 09:28:37 PM
I'd you all to take the job and see how you do.
Lol, so the benchmark for Parker is 'could the average butcher/baker/candlestick maker watching from the stands do a better job?'
No, I think the point was is that we have so many on here that can tell Parker where he is going wrong and what he needs to do, that they should, then, be able to a better job. :005:
I don't have a problem with the keep ball method of play BUT it has to have an end product.
Not every time of course but the players have to decide when to speed up, make runs, take the opposition on, basically make something happen in and around the oppositions penalty area.
This is true for any style of football you play but our lot just aren't doing it enough!
When you look at the personnel in our team I don't think its the players who would normally be scared to have a go, I believe they feel constrained by the mantra coming from the HC that keeping the ball is the number 1 priority.
I see no sign of it all clicking into place and us going on a winning run.
Quote from: OhConnah on November 02, 2019, 09:28:37 PM
I am still amazed at the anti-Parker hysterics. We've lost four times...ONLY FOUR TIMES. It's the draws that are killing us. Give the man a f*cking break. I'd you all to take the job and see how you do. A couple more results like this back to back and I can see the argument of wanting him gone...but give him at least half a season in the championship to figure it out. An imposter, please. He is a new manager trying to make his way in one of, if not the, most competitive and challenging leagues in Europe.
Very good point, its probably the most competitive and challenging leagues in Europe. Hence, no manager with less than five years coaching experience should be leading the coaching team, especially if he got the job as his last two managers failed while he was the assistant manager.
As MJG has stated elsewhere, NO team has finished in the top two without winning 26 games in season, in last 6 years. We need to find 20 wins in next 31 games. Big ask!!
This is regardless of who the manager is by the way!
Quote from: WindyCity on November 02, 2019, 10:57:16 PM
Quote from: Milo on November 02, 2019, 09:11:24 PM
His argument is that we have the most amount of shots on target in the league so we can't complain. Just need to convert our chances. I mean.. it's a fair point.
Not a fair point at all. Totally distorts reality. I believe most of our target shots and goals scored only happened in a couple of games so far. Today v Hull, 75% possession and just ONE shot on target. At home. Something is NOT working with the current system. This is another case where stats do not tell the whole truth. And it pains me that our head coach subscribes to this.
Exactly 2 games against poor Millwall or Reading sides who tactically set up all wrong against us. If you do your homework it isn't hard to negate Parker's predictable tactics. Also our chances / shots are often from distance being closed down and not a player breaking into the area at speed with defenders on their heels and in disarray.
Quote from: Spirit of 2000 on November 03, 2019, 02:20:48 PM
Quote from: WindyCity on November 02, 2019, 10:57:16 PM
Quote from: Milo on November 02, 2019, 09:11:24 PM
His argument is that we have the most amount of shots on target in the league so we can't complain. Just need to convert our chances. I mean.. it's a fair point.
Not a fair point at all. Totally distorts reality. I believe most of our target shots and goals scored only happened in a couple of games so far. Today v Hull, 75% possession and just ONE shot on target. At home. Something is NOT working with the current system. This is another case where stats do not tell the whole truth. And it pains me that our head coach subscribes to this.
Exactly 2 games against poor Millwall or Reading sides who tactically set up all wrong against us. If you do your homework it isn't hard to negate Parker's predictable tactics. Also our chances / shots are often from distance being closed down and not a player breaking into the area at speed with defenders on their heels and in disarray.
Yep, would like to see more "quality" chances. The few we get are far reaching indeed. I don't mind the possession style of play, BUT, IF, and only IF, some quality chances can be derived from it. This team sure looks good on paper, but on the pitch, not so much. Disappointing.
Remember Wilkins & Bracewell seasons. Relatively good squads for the divisions we were in, but slow, negative sideways and backwards passing prominent. Those sides were transformed as soon as more dynamic managers took over. Parker is certainly in the Bracewell/Wilkins mould rather than the Keegan/Tigana one.
Hull are second in the current form table, have won 3 out of the last 4 aways? and I heard a scout of note rated their forward Bowen as being the best finisher he has seen this season in the top two leagues and that includes Vardy.
They have a new manager this season who has only now found his feet, until recently their fans were saying he wasn't good enough for them having had no championship experience........
the game is all about sticking the ball in the net, something we are relying far too heavily on mitro if you ask me
I don't like the keeping possession just for the sake of it mainly to stop the opposition having the ball
I much prefer possession with a purpose
take chances and every player on the pitch should be having two or three attempts at goal each
I would be happier with less possession and more risks taken going forward
all in all I don't think it is as gloomy as a lot of posters are making out, like parker says, its how you bounce back after a defeat that shows how good you are.
So many teams have come to CC with a game plan to frustrate us so far this season.
If we continue to play the same way, there will be many more who do the same.
If this happens eventually the player's confidence will suffer.
IMHO there are already a few who don't believe in how they are being asked to play and this shows in their body language and performances.
Quote from: TC's Sporran on November 03, 2019, 04:33:13 PM
all in all I don't think it is as gloomy as a lot of posters are making out, like parker says, its how you bounce back after a defeat that shows how good you are.
Sure, it's not that gloomy if you're satisfied with a mid table club this season. And a possible drop to lower league after next.
"I'm not satisfied!" (Disgruntled Fawlty Towers guest)
The guy next to me on Saturday still thinks we have the best team on paper and Scotty thinks that the stats support him in his style of play. When he played for us Scotty had fantastic passing stats but seldom made a decent pass. Now we have a team in his mould, a team of talented players, playing really boring football. He was the cheap easy option and it isn't working.
Quote from: WindyCity on November 04, 2019, 05:22:43 PM
Quote from: TC's Sporran on November 03, 2019, 04:33:13 PM
all in all I don't think it is as gloomy as a lot of posters are making out, like parker says, its how you bounce back after a defeat that shows how good you are.
Sure, it's not that gloomy if you're satisfied with a mid table club this season. And a possible drop to lower league after next.
"I'm not satisfied!" (Disgruntled Fawlty Towers guest)
no one said mid table, a winning run of only 4 games puts you top two. the championship or promotion has never ever been won in November.
look at leeds, invariably top of the table first 5 months of the season but then we see the annual falling apart act.
as long as we keep in touch and make a few (defensive?) additions in jan, then there is no need to worry. plenty of time to get the players moulded together as an effective unit. no need to panic or blame it on the manager, give it time let it develop. no histrionics or knee jerk reactions.
I can remember at least 3 championship sides who were lower than mid table at xmas who made amazing runs and got promoted.
novemeber and still within touching distance of the top is insane to want sack the manager
imho
I think people are getting a bit carried away with their expectations of how well they think we should be doing and basing parkers performance purely on some imaginary lofty position we should be in
he is a new manager learning his trade, surely its gonna take half a season merely getting to grips with the nuts and bolts of the job.
the players if they are as good as people think they are should be able to perform without everything spelling out for them whilst scotty learns his trade
you cant offer the managers job to someone inexperienced and demand them to have us top after only a third of a season.
if you wanted that then your choice of manager was wrong or you were hoping to get lucky.
Quote from: Dodger53 on November 04, 2019, 05:37:01 PM
The guy next to me on Saturday still thinks we have the best team on paper and Scotty thinks that the stats support him in his style of play. When he played for us Scotty had fantastic passing stats but seldom made a decent pass. Now we have a team in his mould, a team of talented players, playing really boring football. He was the cheap easy option and it isn't working.
+1
A lot of slow pirouettes before passing 5 yards sideways in our own half. We are Scott Parker's team.
Quote from: Fulham Tup North on November 03, 2019, 01:57:57 PM
As MJG has stated elsewhere, NO team has finished in the top two without winning 26 games in season, in last 6 years. We need to find 20 wins in next 31 games. Big ask!!
This is regardless of who the manager is by the way!
Lets face it, we could easily find ourselves at Christmas the same point as Christmas 2017, and no team to my knowledge has ever got automatic promoted from that position (we needed a 24 game unbeaten run and went close). As for playoffs, our squad rotation is currently terrible and we will beplaying our best team to make the playoffs, so expect our players like Bryan, Cairney and Mitro to enter the playoffs tired.
So many people wanted to give Scott Parker a chance, if we keep him for next season we can give him another chance with a whole new team of players worth far less on the transfer market and see if he does better. Note, by 2021/22 our financial situation will be similar to Middlesbough and Hull with parachute payments ending with the Khan's spending the maximium FFP allows..
The manager isn't effecting positive change in how the team plays. He has to go. This season is all but lost. Get a proven winning top guy in here now who can right the ship before the quality players phone it in and start counting the days until the season ends. The acceleration of poor form continues. Why wait until it is absolutely too late, and promotion is mathematically impossible? Or so unlikely it might as well be impossible? I miss Slava.
Quote from: OhConnah on November 02, 2019, 09:28:37 PM
I am still amazed at the anti-Parker hysterics. We've lost four times...ONLY FOUR TIMES. It's the draws that are killing us. Give the man a f*cking break. I'd you all to take the job and see how you do. A couple more results like this back to back and I can see the argument ofco wanting him gone...but give him at least half a season in the championship to figure it out. An imposter, please. He is a new manager trying to make his way in one of, if not the, most competitive and challenging leagues in Europe.
I agree with your sentiment.
But...this loss shook my backing of what Scott is trying to implement (and not the man himself). This squad needs players that play well together, and right now...imo they don't.
And the defense, even when Joe Bryan is healthy, needs a backup LB that can compete against Joe for the starting spot (NOT MLM...personally I like the LB on Wigan), and a starting CB with pace (I really hope Mike doesn't disappoint).
The team is incredibly slow (in pace and in passing).
I believe in Scott way more than I do this group of players. But only so much.
Yes he's new and still learning but I think the concern is that his style is looking worryingly similar to "sideways" Wilkins. As others have pointed out when Keegan replaced Wilkins we were transformed. Give him a bit more time but he had to adapt and do it fast.
Quote from: TC's Sporran on November 04, 2019, 07:58:33 PM
Quote from: WindyCity on November 04, 2019, 05:22:43 PM
Quote from: TC's Sporran on November 03, 2019, 04:33:13 PM
all in all I don't think it is as gloomy as a lot of posters are making out, like parker says, its how you bounce back after a defeat that shows how good you are.
Sure, it's not that gloomy if you're satisfied with a mid table club this season. And a possible drop to lower league after next.
"I'm not satisfied!" (Disgruntled Fawlty Towers guest)
no one said mid table, a winning run of only 4 games puts you top two. the championship or promotion has never ever been won in November.
look at leeds, invariably top of the table first 5 months of the season but then we see the annual falling apart act.
as long as we keep in touch and make a few (defensive?) additions in jan, then there is no need to worry. plenty of time to get the players moulded together as an effective unit. no need to panic or blame it on the manager, give it time let it develop. no histrionics or knee jerk reactions.
I can remember at least 3 championship sides who were lower than mid table at xmas who made amazing runs and got promoted.
novemeber and still within touching distance of the top is insane to want sack the manager
imho
I think people are getting a bit carried away with their expectations of how well they think we should be doing and basing parkers performance purely on some imaginary lofty position we should be in
he is a new manager learning his trade, surely its gonna take half a season merely getting to grips with the nuts and bolts of the job.
the players if they are as good as people think they are should be able to perform without everything spelling out for them whilst scotty learns his trade
you cant offer the managers job to someone inexperienced and demand them to have us top after only a third of a season.
if you wanted that then your choice of manager was wrong or you were hoping to get lucky.
Well, we had that chance at a 4 game winning run coming off the last break, all against lower table clubs. Only 4 points secured in those 4 games. Not exactly top table quality. Sure, we still remain within shouting distance, and lots of games yet to play, but when will this club start turning 'good'? We've seen very little, if any, progress as the season has moved along. I'm not suggesting a manager sacking just yet, but this season is slipping away. Need to see much better, and soon.
im sure everyone wants an improvement but some of us are willing to be a tad more patient before the trigger gets pulled
