Didn't we sign Ollie Norwood .
Because Seri and Anquissa are much much better players!!!! On second thoughts why oh why didn't buy Norwood 😭
At the end of the season, Anguissa will be sold for more than he bought him. He is a great player just cannot play in a Fulham Jersey.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on December 05, 2019, 09:46:59 PM
At the end of the season, Anguissa will be sold for more than he bought him. He is a great player just cannot play in a Fulham Jersey.
Great player? I must have been watching in a parrallel universe. Great in some fantasy football game perhaps but not in the real world.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on December 05, 2019, 09:46:59 PM
At the end of the season, Anguissa will be sold for more than he bought him. He is a great player just cannot play in a Fulham Jersey.
It is impossible to make a rational statement whilst sniffing glue.
Norwood was in situ, had proved himself playing for us, as a grafter and decent team player - so of course, the logical thing was to get rid of him, and buy unproven foreign imports for huge amounts, and stick them all straight into the team!!!
I agree. One of a few ex Fulham player performing well in the premier league. I posted a comment about Targett which many disagreed with.
Also Dan Burn had a fine game today against Arsenal. Surprised the heck out of me but he was good.
oh dear oh dear.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on December 05, 2019, 11:27:35 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on December 05, 2019, 09:46:59 PM
At the end of the season, Anguissa will be sold for more than he bought him. He is a great player just cannot play in a Fulham Jersey.
It is impossible to make a rational statement whilst sniffing glue.
We bought Anguissa for £23m (€29m) and Villarreal have an option to buy him at £25m at the end of the season. Villarreal currently think he is a bargain at that price and they are planning to exercise but it's still wait and see, maybe they are sniffing glue or maybe we need to stop blaming recruitment and start asking questions.
One good question is: Why when players like Norwood and Anguissa leave Fulham for teams marginally better than Fulham they go from "bench players at Fulham" to "Stars of a Team better than Fulham"?
Meanwhile players like Knockaert and Arter are joining us from similar teams to us, then going from starters to bench players.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on December 06, 2019, 01:17:57 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on December 05, 2019, 11:27:35 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on December 05, 2019, 09:46:59 PM
At the end of the season, Anguissa will be sold for more than he bought him. He is a great player just cannot play in a Fulham Jersey.
It is impossible to make a rational statement whilst sniffing glue.
We bought Anguissa for £23m (€29m) and Villarreal have an option to buy him at £25m at the end of the season. Villarreal currently think he is a bargain at that price and they are planning to exercise but it's still wait and see, maybe they are sniffing glue or maybe we need to stop blaming recruitment and start asking questions.
One good question is: Why when players like Norwood and Anguissa leave Fulham for teams marginally better than Fulham they go from "bench players at Fulham" to "Stars of a Team better than Fulham"?
Meanwhile players like Knockaert and Arter are joining us from similar teams to us, then going from starters to bench players.
Different systems?
Quote from: The Rational Fan on December 06, 2019, 01:17:57 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on December 05, 2019, 11:27:35 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on December 05, 2019, 09:46:59 PM
At the end of the season, Anguissa will be sold for more than he bought him. He is a great player just cannot play in a Fulham Jersey.
It is impossible to make a rational statement whilst sniffing glue.
We bought Anguissa for £23m (€29m) and Villarreal have an option to buy him at £25m at the end of the season. Villarreal currently think he is a bargain at that price and they are planning to exercise but it's still wait and see, maybe they are sniffing glue or maybe we need to stop blaming recruitment and start asking questions.
One good question is: Why when players like Norwood and Anguissa leave Fulham for teams marginally better than Fulham they go from "bench players at Fulham" to "Stars of a Team better than Fulham"?
Meanwhile players like Knockaert and Arter are joining us from similar teams to us, then going from starters to bench players.
Mitrovic
Norwood couldnt get in our starting line up regularly.and was 4th man. Decent player though,and we certainly were not the first club to come to the conclusion that he was not quite up to the premiership.
Like most players,a lot better when a regular starter, something he never managed with us.Which by the way was down to Slavisa Jokanovic, so it w´should be his judgement being questioned ,not just TKs !!!
Norwood seems to have found his place at Sheffield United whereas neither Fulham or Brighton considered him to be on their want list for the Premier League. Probably no surprise really because he was never a first choice pick at either team in their respective promotion seasons, so it is perhaps understandable that Brighton loaned him to us and we chose not to sign him following promotion.
Looking at Sheffield United as a whole their manager Chris Wilder seems to have improved quite a few players who who are excelling at the higher level so maybe that's the difference.
Good teams are about more than one player - Ollie did a good job for us but the midfield 3 of KMac, Stefjo and TC had a much better balance for us in the system we were playing (the 23 games unbeaten around the time TC came back to fitness is tangible proof of this). KMac breaking up play / providing the defensive cover / physical presence when starting attacks; Stefjo covering the pitch with his energy / playing an important part in our pressing game and chipping in with goals; TC our playmaker and creator, as well as a important goal scorer.
Ollie was always a steady and able deputy with a decent range of passing and set piece delivery, but wasn't strong enough to dislodge KMac / mobile enough to dislodge Stefjo / creative enough to challenge TC for the system we played. Actually even though he is playing in a team that is thriving (some might say punching above their weight) in the Prem, I still think he would struggle to get into our current starting XI given the players we have and the system we are playing.
That's not taking away anything from him as an individual - he just needed a team which had a system better suited to him and seems he's now found a suitable home. He did a good job for us and I wish him well.
We tried to sign him in the Jan window when he was with us
But like Targett over the summer could not agree a price
Delighted that both are doing well
As I am that Burn is thriving too .
Yes, Count Flapula, but Stef Jo and KMac hardly featured for us in the Prem either, and surely Ollie had been a good squad member as an able back up for these players.
But, what were seen as better quality players were bought, and Slavisa decided to play them all immediately, though they'd hardly even met each or other or the rest of the team, - didn't seem to think the team that had won us promotion was good enough for the Prem.
Maybe if the new players had been integrated gradually, and had to earn their place in the team, the outcome may have been different
We approached Brighton with an offer for Norwood but they rejected it so we had to look elsewhere it's as simple as that!!
Maybe he was overpriced? He was a squad player for us in the Championship, so wouldn't have made sense to pay £10m or more.
Using the principle of Occam's Razor the test of any player is how they play for the team they are currently in. It matters not what happened before that are even after it unless the player was, or is, in that team's squad but didn't or isn't get game time which isn't related to injury or fitness problems. I do believe there is an argument that some players signed for last season's PL campaign just didn't try hard enough to play for anyone and that becomes an issue that may be a different measure against Occam's Razor.
Norwood, Targett, Kalas, etc., were all worth fighting for in comparison to what came along comparatively easily, IMO.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on December 06, 2019, 01:17:57 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on December 05, 2019, 11:27:35 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on December 05, 2019, 09:46:59 PM
At the end of the season, Anguissa will be sold for more than he bought him. He is a great player just cannot play in a Fulham Jersey.
It is impossible to make a rational statement whilst sniffing glue.
We bought Anguissa for £23m (€29m) and Villarreal have an option to buy him at £25m at the end of the season. Villarreal currently think he is a bargain at that price and they are planning to exercise but it's still wait and see, maybe they are sniffing glue or maybe we need to stop blaming recruitment and start asking questions.
One good question is: Why when players like Norwood and Anguissa leave Fulham for teams marginally better than Fulham they go from "bench players at Fulham" to "Stars of a Team better than Fulham"?
Meanwhile players like Knockaert and Arter are joining us from similar teams to us, then going from starters to bench players.
A couple of possible answers could be:
1) We may have too much focus on good stats rather than getting players that will instantly fit into our formation/tactics. If players need time to adapt to new roles we can't expect them to perform at their best from the start of the season. Players will underperform and the team will start poorly every season.
2) We rely far too much on loans. We never get enough stability in the squad. Every season will require a massive rebuild, the team won't click until we're halfway through the season. Players will underperform when the team underperforms.
3) We buy players far too late EVERY transfer window. Player don't get a chance to settle in before they're forced into the starting 11. We are NEVER ready for the start of the season. Again: Players will underperform.
4) We sign injured/unfit players and basically just get them into shape for their next club, or in the case of loans for their parent club. Players will underperform, or in some cases hardly perform at all.
Basically, it looks like other clubs are better at recruiting players that will actually fit into their system and in time to be ready for the season.
As for Norwood his passing was never really good enough for Joka's style of football. Anyone who thinks we should have signed him needs to re-watch some of the games he played IMO. He was an important squad player for us and always gave 100% but he often looked a bit out of his depth. We didn't start winning regularly until Cairney was back from injury and Norwood on the bench. Sheffield Utd is probably a far better match for Norwood
Anguissa was a case of not giving him time to adapt to a new role before throwing him to the wolves. He was beginning to look like a great player near the end of the season but he was HORRIBLE at the start. That makes it failed recruitment strategy and a good job from our coaching staff IMO. If we had kept him I would have given recruitment some credit but of course they got rid of him when he started too look great.
He always took a stonking penalty kick!
Quote from: RaySmith on December 06, 2019, 09:43:06 AM
Yes, Count Flapula, but Stef Jo and KMac hardly featured for us in the Prem either, and surely Ollie had been a good squad member as an able back up for these players.
But, what were seen as better quality players were bought, and Slavisa decided to play them all immediately, though they'd hardly even met each or other or the rest of the team, - didn't seem to think the team that had won us promotion was good enough for the Prem.
Maybe if the new players had been integrated gradually, and had to earn their place in the team, the outcome may have been different
:plus one:
To be fair, at the time I never expected that we would - I thought maybe the PL would be beyond him. Obviously very wrong.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on December 06, 2019, 01:17:57 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on December 05, 2019, 11:27:35 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on December 05, 2019, 09:46:59 PM
At the end of the season, Anguissa will be sold for more than he bought him. He is a great player just cannot play in a Fulham Jersey.
It is impossible to make a rational statement whilst sniffing glue.
We bought Anguissa for £23m (€29m) and Villarreal have an option to buy him at £25m at the end of the season. Villarreal currently think he is a bargain at that price and they are planning to exercise but it's still wait and see, maybe they are sniffing glue or maybe we need to stop blaming recruitment and start asking questions.
One good question is: Why when players like Norwood and Anguissa leave Fulham for teams marginally better than Fulham they go from "bench players at Fulham" to "Stars of a Team better than Fulham"?
Meanwhile players like Knockaert and Arter are joining us from similar teams to us, then going from starters to bench players.
You make some valid points, and I agree. Norwood would have been part of the heart beat we would have needed, and he is battle proven in the English League. Whereupon Zambo and Seri for example amongst others were unproven foreign imports, and expensive ones at that, we're brought in on stats and little else. they may look good when they are playing in a warm climate, against mediocre opposition most weeks when they have no need to get their shirts dirty.
However, eating dirt on a cold December night up at Deepdale or Field Mill is a different kettle of fish and is no picnic, and they clearly haven't the appetite or the mental strength and are found to be milky with no heart. Whereas Oliver Norwood is a players player and would have done a better job than any of these other expensive light weights.
Stats is the obvious answer.
Surley that computer program we used to assess players has now been totally discredited and scrapped
Stats has some relevance to picking players but fighting spirit and team togetherness can't be sniffed at. Various teams over the years have over achieved and beaten better teams on paper, Leicester, Greece and their Euro glory, even Fulham getting to the Europa Final and the teams we beat along the way. Sheff Utd currently proving that team spirit is a formidable potion.
Quote from: Whitestone on December 06, 2019, 06:31:39 AM
Norwood seems to have found his place at Sheffield United whereas neither Fulham or Brighton considered him to be on their want list for the Premier League. Probably no surprise really because he was never a first choice pick at either team in their respective promotion seasons, so it is perhaps understandable that Brighton loaned him to us and we chose not to sign him following promotion.
Looking at Sheffield United as a whole their manager Chris Wilder seems to have improved quite a few players who who are excelling at the higher level so maybe that's the difference.
I would agree Whitestone.
Wilder seems to have that ability to improve players, particularly with his team's buying into his game plans and football ethics.
Quote from: SuffolkWhite on December 06, 2019, 03:13:43 PM
Stats has some relevance to picking players but fighting spirit and team togetherness can't be sniffed at. Various teams over the years have over achieved and beaten better teams on paper, Leicester, Greece and their Euro glory, even Fulham getting to the Europa Final and the teams we beat along the way. Sheff Utd currently proving that team spirit is a formidable potion.
You cannot blame statistics if you recruit a player like Anguissa that has a fighting spirit for Marsellie, Cameroon and Villarreal; and then losses that fighting spirit for us regaining it after he leaves. At some point Fulham and Parker needs to ask questions, if players don't fight for one club, coach and fans but fight for another, is the player the problem.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on December 06, 2019, 11:06:17 PM
Quote from: SuffolkWhite on December 06, 2019, 03:13:43 PM
Stats has some relevance to picking players but fighting spirit and team togetherness can't be sniffed at. Various teams over the years have over achieved and beaten better teams on paper, Leicester, Greece and their Euro glory, even Fulham getting to the Europa Final and the teams we beat along the way. Sheff Utd currently proving that team spirit is a formidable potion.
You cannot blame statistics if you recruit a player like Anguissa that has a fighting spirit for Marsellie, Cameroon and Villarreal; and then losses that fighting spirit for us regaining it after he leaves. At some point Fulham and Parker needs to ask questions, if players don't fight for one club, coach and fans but fight for another, is the player the problem.
I know the answer to that one. the player is absolutely the problem. The man's attitude was a shambles when playing for us. There was no ball to easy that he wouldn't give up chasing. Virtually everyone that watched the games in the flesh in the prem saw a con man at work, he had no interest in being with us and lived up to his repuation from his previous team of not really putting in a shift. I was thrilled to see the back of him and whilst I wish him no ill if I never have to see him or hear about that lazy waste of space any more I will be even more delighted.
In comparison norwood was a very decent man in that he gave everything and in retrospect I would have prefered him. I did think that if we were investing we could do better than Norwood biut it turns out we paid a fortune for far worse.
